Here Today... Gone To Hell!

It's been uncertain in the past years if GN'R is still with a record company, at least to me.

Interscope have no mention of the band on their website. Universal Music (at least in the US), currently have no mention either.

I think I've found evidence that they're indeed with Interscope still, when I came across a press release from late last year announcing a pop-up store called "Wear. Music.".



Here's a quote from the release:

"The pop-up features unique stores from Interscope artists including The 1975, Imagine Dragons, Guns N? Roses, Lady Gaga, Marilyn Manson, and The Rolling Stones ..."

https://www.interscope.com/wearmusic




So, not independent yet...

I know nothing about record labels or companies so maybe someone can explain what is Black Frog that GNR is is that for publishing and what is the point of it?

In short, the record label is responsible for the recording process (paying for studio time, producers, mixing, mastering etc.). They also arrange for the marketing of the recording afterwards. Then they gain back their money through sales of the music produced, which the artist gets a cut of.

The publisher arranges so the artist gets paid royalties when its songs are played on the radio, TV, movies or covered by other artists live or through a studio recording.


Edit: Yes, Black Frog Music is a publishing company.

Could the lack of a label impact on potential live album? Not from a financial point of view as they could easily find a label, but from a legal view? Are the song licences a problem?

Who released the appetite for democracy dvd in 2014?

Geffen/Universal

Geffen is under the Interscope umbrella.

What sort of deal would they be on though, going forwards? Surely not one that requires the delivering of any new material within a set time?

I'd wager that interscope thing is in the past, and that any deal they have is expired, personally.

That was my point of the first post though, GN'R are being promoted as an Interscope artist as late as December 2016. They are still with Interscope.

I don't know the details of their contract though.

I read it differently though- like they are an interscope artist, but maybe not currently. I just can't see them having an active deal, otherwise surely there would be some form of push from the label for them to release content- be it reissues, live, etc.

The pop-up store featured merchandise and records by GN'R. I don't think Interscope could legally promote and sell GN'R products if the contract with them had expired.

I'm not sure. Bands labels that no longer have the bands signed to them still sell their records. Take prince as an example. He released his own stuff, fell out with Warner massively for years, but Warner still sold the albums.

You might be right. So, even if GN'R leaves Geffen, do they still have the rights to the material?

I believe so. I could be wrong, but as I understand it that's the case. Often certain image rights are contained too- hence why you sometimes see band shirts being sold in high street retailers.

The thing that makes me question it a bit though is the disagreement duff and slash had with axl regarding him refusing to licence songs for adverts. That might be related to publishing rights though- which axl could retain sole ownership of, while geofence have the rights to sell the material in the form they own it- I.e. The albums.?

I believe this has to do with publishing rights only. Since Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff all have rights, with Axl having his own rights managed through his own company and the rest through the company "Guns N' Roses Music", all have to sign off on material being used. If one party doesn't want to sign, it can't be used.

That's why Axl re-recorded WTTJ. Once he did that, he could use the re-recording for Black Hawk Down with only him needing to sign off on it. It didn't work out in the end though, maybe due to Ridley Scott wanting the original song.

It works like this:

When you RECORD music, the person PAYING for those recordings is automatically the OWNER of those recordings. He owns the recordings, not the music. Usually the record companies pay for the recording process, making them the owner. They can decide what to do with those recordings until 50 years after the recording.

When you WRITE a song, you're automatically the OWNER of what you wrote until 72 years after you die. This can be either MUSIC or LYRICS. Seeing that there are a lot rules, legislation and rights to be defended, interpreted or simply read, many ARTISTS sign their rights to a company that PROTECTS and EXPLOITS their music. These companies are called PUBLISHERS. They make sure their artist's music is protected and that they get what they deserve money wise. Some artists sign away their rights to those companies forever, some for a certain period of time and some start their OWN publishing company. That's what Axl did with Black Frog Music. BFM focuses solely on protecting the copyright to any music and/or lyrics he wrote.

Geffen was the record company that signed GnR 30 years ago, and paid for the recording of Appetite, Lies, Illusions etc. They OWN the copyright to the recordings and can do WHATEVER they want with it. Since Interscope bought up Geffen, they now own those rights. Depending on the kind of contract GnR has, they could still be signed to Interscope. Usually artists sign for a certain amount of albums, that was pretty much the rule in the 80's. It took Madonna 25 years to be done with the deal she signed in 1983: she had to release 10 albums before the deal ended. I can imagine GnR having something similar. So my bet is that they're still with Interscope b/c they still owe them one, two or maybe more albums.

Regarding their music being used for a game, commercial or whatever:

There are TWO main parties involved in that: the one that OWNS the copyright to the RECORDINGS (usually record company) and the person(s) owning the copyright to the MUSIC. In this case that's Geffen for the recordings and Axl, Slash and Duff for most of the music GnR wrote. If one of those parties decides not to sign off, no one can use the recording or the song.

I hope this might give some of you some insight how the music business works regarding records and music (publishing)  :peace:

Thanks for that thourough explanation, much appreciated! 😃

First off, thanks for your insight. Very educational.  : ok:

I quoted the last part because I have 2 questions as it would relate to GH. 
Would the release of GH count towards the number of albums possibly stilled owed the "paying owner"? 
And, if as you say "If one of those parties decides not to sign off...", how was GH able to be released against the wishes of both Axl and Slash?

I would say that Greatest Hits did indeed count as a release, and the purpose of that release was because Geffen was continuously funding Chinese Democracy so extensively that it needed to release something to recoup the ever-rising costs.



As long as it is a Guns N Roses album, as Greatest Hits was, they can release anything without the band's permission.  That's why Axl, Slash, and Duff couldn't stop that album from being released.

"Signing off" applies to video games, TV commercials, movie soundtracks, etc.  Basically Slash, Duff, and Axl have to sign off on all original GNR recordings that are used elsewhere other than GNR records that are released under Geffen's name.

In they don't all sign off, there can be legal trouble -- remember when "Welcome to the Jungle" was used for a "Guitar Hero" game (the one that featured Slash), and Axl sued, publicly stating that they weren't granted the license, which means Axl obviously didn't sign off -- at least not with the awareness that Slash was going to be associated so heavily with the game.  I am guessing Axl had a pre-ordained provision for any deal that whenever he said "yes", former members weren't permitted to be used in context with GNR songs.

Then we had that re-recorded version of "Sweet Child o Mine" featured in the movie "Big Daddy" in 1999.  The obvious assumption is this was done so that Axl could circumvent having to ascertain Slash's or Duff's approval, since their parts were removed for this release.  It certainly was not done for money reasons, because Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy all retain writing credits (and thus royalties) for GNR songs no matter who records them.  But afterwards, Slash and Duff sued Axl for underpayment of rights, royalties, etc, so perhaps this was a sticking point for them.

You're very welcome!

Regarding Greatest Hits: usually a contract states specifically what kind of albums are part of the deal. So lets use the example of 10 albums. The contract could state: 7 albums worth of original music, 2 Greatest Hits and 1 Live Album. In this case GnR have delivered 8 so far, thus meaning one more GH and one with original music.

(Disclaimer: I don't know anything about GnR's contract. The numbers are just guesses)

And pretty much what Bridges said, except that the re-recording of Sweet Child could solely be not having to pay Slash and Duff royalties over the recording. Which is pretty spiteful, but I don't even know if that's the reason. Because they will always have a say in what happens with the music itself.

BIG THANKS again to both you, FreddieJames, and to Bridge.   :beer:


My next question would be about songs re-done in whole or part by another artist and used commercially...

... specifically, does Axl/Slash/AFD5 have any say in SCOM being used this way in this commercial?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxL7BT7UDrY

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slash and Duff will always receive royalties for the song ? even if it's a re-recording, as they are listed as writers of the song.

I believe the case was that Axl did sign off on the song, but wasn't informed about the context it was being used in (Slash as a character playing it).

Yeah, I always figured that Axl either signed off without knowledge of Slash's involvement, or didn't sign off at all.


Correct.  Anytime any GNR song is re-recorded or covered by someone else, all credited writers will receive royalties.  Take Sheryl Crow's version of "Sweet Child o Mine", which was also featured in "Big Daddy" as well as one of her albums.  Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy will always receive royalties on every copy sold, despite the fact that it's a cover song that none of them played on.


I doubt they gave permission for that, because it's a cover version.  That piano version in that commercial is by the band Taken By Trees, an entirely separate entity from Guns N Roses.  In many cases for commercials and such, companies hire other bands to record cover versions to avoid having to license the original song, which saves them money, time, and having to receive permission.

Cover acts generally don't have to clear anything with the original band as long as they pay royalties.  This is protected by the Compulsory License law.  The only exceptions are when bands own their own publishing (as opposed to the record label owning it) therefore giving them control to approve or deny permission.  But when the record labels own it, artists often don't find out that their song has been covered until they begin seeing it on their royalty statements, or they hear the cover version on the radio.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-compulsory-license-in-music-2460357 (https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-compulsory-license-in-music-2460357)

A Compulsory license lets a musician record and sell their rendition of any previously recorded song by paying royalties to the copyright holder of the original composition.  These laws let you legally release your new recording of any existing song, and under certain conditions, even without the copyright holder's permission.

Bearing in mind all of the above- where does that leave the issue of deluxe remasters/reissues?

I still can't figure out why this has never happened, as it's so commonplace across the industry now. Would it have something to do with the fact that any 'new' material included (i.e. demos, live tracks, outtakes etc) would not be covered by the original contract, so hence not Geffen's property, and therefore need to be subject to an entirely new deal being agreed?

If that's the case, it would seem to indicate that GNR are indeed without a deal. I can't see it not happening if Geffen had any way to make it happen. If they could do it, they would have done I'm sure.

I would guess Universal/Geffen

The last (re)release was an audio eAlbum of Use Your Illusion II on 11th December 2015, UPC code was 00602547707925. It was released on the Geffen label.

The last Interscope release(s) were some ringtones on 24th October 2008, it has been Geffen all the way since then. Obviously Bravado do the merchandise, and there has been a couple of releases under the Universal Special Products umbrella.

They're part of the same company though? "Interscope - Geffen - A&M"

http://www.universalmusic.com/label/interscope-geffen-am/.

That's right. Universal are the umbrella company, and Interscope, Geffen and A&M are labels within that umbrella.

As it stands, GN'R are an active band in Unversal's database, and their music releases/rereleases have been released under Geffen since October 2008 according to that database.

It's fair to say they're still with Universal/Interscope Geffen A&M then.

I find it a bit odd that neither Universal or Geffen (interscope.com) have a mention of GN'R on their respective websites. Especially now, with the band doing great success live, wouldn't they want to push their catalogue during this time?

Or, has record sales actually come to a point where the labels don't even bother anymore...

The only attempt I've seen is Universal Music Ireland actually promoted GH ahead of the concert with a TV ad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFR6ZFpV_eM

Yeah, it is all theoretically interchangeable I guess. I don't know. Just reporting what is on the database.

As for the marketing, again, I do not know. The old Interscope GN'R website was never very exciting, and the bio on the database is an old one written by Lori Earl in 2000. It doesn't look as though the record label has put a lot of effort into anything apart from pushing out merchandise.

That's the reason I was uncertain about them still being with a label to begin with.

But it all seems cleared up now, although a bit elusive behavior by the label these days.

Here are some pages out there;

This page still exists, which is quite old though

http://www.universalmusicenterprises.com/gunsnroses (http://www.universalmusicenterprises.com/gunsnroses)

An old Chinese Democracy news article. Lists Black Frog/Geffen Records as label

http://www.universalmusic.com/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-november-23/ (http://www.universalmusic.com/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-november-23/)

Universal Music Publishing UK

http://www.umusicpub.co.uk/en-GB/Artists/G/Guns-N-Roses.aspx (http://www.umusicpub.co.uk/en-GB/Artists/G/Guns-N-Roses.aspx)

Universal Japan

www.universal-music.co.jp/guns-n-roses/ (http://www.universal-music.co.jp/guns-n-roses/)

It looks as though Geffen Interscope A&M is a combined thing, which is what you were saying. This article;

http://www.universalmusic.com/nterscope-records-teams-up-with-bravado-to-create-wear-music-pop-up-experience-at-hollywood-highland-december-2nd-through-january-2nd/ (http://www.universalmusic.com/nterscope-records-teams-up-with-bravado-to-create-wear-music-pop-up-experience-at-hollywood-highland-december-2nd-through-january-2nd/)

says "Interscope Geffen A&M is a major force in global music, developing chart-topping artists across a wide range of musical genres including rock, rap, pop and alternative. Interscope Geffen A&M is part of Universal Music Group, the world?s largest music company."

Odd that Appetite for Democracy is listed but not Chinese Democracy.

Not as odd as the fact that the bio page ends at 1988! Heh.

The Vegas DVD "Appetite for Democracy" was released through Universal /Interscope which was only 2014 however they must be the most frustrating artists in history for a record companies to work with as they haven't exactly being consistent in delivering on a consistent basis since UYIs in 1991.

My recollection is that GH was released to fill a gap and Chinese democracy was the last album to satisfy The contract GNR had with geffen. I'm very much open to correction of my recollections though.

I've heard two versions - one that Greatest Hits + Chinese Democracy completed their contract with Geffen (or Interscope/Universal/whatever) and one that Greatest Hits completed the original contract and a new one was negotiated specifically for Chinese Democracy, which is one of the things that delayed the album.

I'm often sceptical of that second one because I can't imagine anyone involved would be keen to renegotiate the contract at that point, but then maybe that put them on a sort-of even footing - both sides would be willing to concede some things in order to get what they wanted and simply to get the business complications out the way and get the damn thing done. Someone did tell me that the new contract basically said the band were under no obligation to do anything except release an album of some description at some point in time, but in return there was a cap on how much Geffen would pay for it (whilst retaining their stake in the profits), but they didn't know where they'd heard that so I'm not sure it's got any basis in fact.

More generally it is absolutely possible for a band to have multiple albums on different labels. For example Duff's band Loaded have 5 releases on 3 labels (Pimp Records for 99:Live and Dark Days, Century Media for Wasted Heart and Sick and Armoury Records for The Taking). Shortly after Sick was released Duff said he actually preferred to do a deal for just 1 album and then re-negotiate, with the same people or different ones, because he thought it worked out better for everyone. I wouldn't be at all surprised if issues with GnR and Velvet Revolver (who supposedly had a 3 album contract and had to negotiate getting out of it after the band fell apart) was behind that.

And then of course there's all the high profile cases of musicians who are angry because they signed a crap deal early in their career when they didn't think it would matter and years later they're fighting long, expensive legal battles to try and get back control of their early music, but have full control of the later stuff because they realised their mistake and switched labels.

I'd wager they are totally out of contract, reading through the above. If they were- there would be pressure, and there would inevitably be releases, even if of a low quality or dubious nature (Greatest Hits with slightly re-jigged setlist, etc).

The rumor, waaaaaaaaaay back when they signed a supposedly renegotiated contract, was they signed for:

4 albums of new material
1 Live album
1 GH album

So 6 more albums total.

AFD, Lies and (I think) UYI were covered under/part of their original contract.

Since that was signed, they provided TSI (??), GnR Live Era, and GH (under protest).  If you read the litigation that surrounded the GH rumblings, it seems apparent that was NOT the end of their contract.  I don't think CD was, either, though there's no way to know for sure.

Depending on how they count TSI....that would leave 2 to 3 original albums left.

Now, all that is founded on rumor and speculation from an awful long time ago....but some of it was basically hinted at during the CD era Axl "QAs" on the various boards. 


We "know" according to Reckless Life by Marc Cantor, that their ORIGINAL contract was for 6 albums. The UYI albums would have gotten them to 4. I think you have to assume that the renegotiation included SOMETHING more than 4 more total albums, given their popularity, and, at the time, material count over a relatively short period of time.  The rumor always sounded right, to me.....

The thing is: With the dissolution of the original entity (when Slash and Duff "left") and reformation under Axl, did that contract transfer or did they renegotiate something new? We just don't really know. There's some breadcrumbs, but not enough to find the way through the forest.

Seems like this has been answered but I actually asked the man himself:

"Universal has Guns under contract but I own the name"

This was from a Dexter chat from December 2008 (so after the CD release) on another fan site.  I'm not going to post a link but am sure the full Q&A can be found without too much digging if anyone is interested in the source.  I was totally shocked that he answered me, and I believe it was one of the last questions he took that night.  Anyway, hope that helps! 

Obviously they have a record and distribution deal

This band. With there 4 albums of original material would have no problem ever picking up a deal

I think there is still some unsaid issues with who owns the rest of the CD era recordings

Label or Axl

Definitely would have no problem getting another deal if they're out of contract. They'd probably go for a one album deal though I think- would make sense for them. Even though record sales aren't what they would be, it would still be a large seller, surely.

Axl himself said at the China Exchange that if there was one thing he regretted from back in the day, it was the band not forming their own label.

It seems to me he'd rather not be under contract with a record label if he could choose.

I question that.  It gives him a convenient boogeyman.

Maybe. But if the things said by both Stinson and Axl about the process leading up to Chinese Democracy are true, it's more of a frustrating situation for them rather than a convenient part to blame.

It's true, if the public knows that you are the 100% sole responsible for what happens, there are few excuses to use, but we can only speculate to what would've happened. If they had their own label, maybe the record would've come out in 2002?


As for today, I can't recall Axl directly laying any blame on the label for the lack of output since Chinese.

I just can't envisage a scenario where a label would possibly HINDER any music coming out from GNR at all. Even studio offcuts, poorly recorded would surely be welcomed at this point. They'd sell to a certain element of the fanbase. Anything Axl wanted to release, he could release.

Not hinder directly, but it's plausible there were measures to slow down the process leading up to Chinese. The label might not have been that enthusiastic about Axl continuing the brand on his own.

If the material is already recorded, there is really no cost to the label.  Get the music out.

I think the problem is, who owns the recordings.  After the label sunk 10 million into the first CD album, do they own all the other associated recordings as well?  I think Axl dump some money into the recordings as well, does he own a percentage?

Surely though it's more likely the label wanted to speed up the process? Doesn't everything point towards the label becoming increasingly impatient about getting CD out, and recouping some of their investment?

The final 2-3 years yes. The beginning of the 2000s was different I think.

what's the point of having a record company, if you're not going to actually release anything at all?

True. 

And it's why I think they are a convenient boogeyman.  Look how many people around here swallow that wholesale. 

Why is nothing happening?   Well, it must be those bastard covered bastards with bastard filling at that evil record company.  Thwarting that hardest working man in show business, Axl Rose, at every opportunity.  If only those pricks would get out of the way, we'd be swimming in albums!

That's easier for some to say without giving it too much of a critical thought, then having to concede Axl just doesn't really care about that end of the operation anymore.  And hasn't for years.

Both sides to the coin take it to the extreme in my opinion. Saying Axl doesn't care is probably foolish.

IMO the label was only willing to go far with Axl and eventually got fed up with him... and in return... his take is that they were not supportive.

..and then there's just probably some part of him that doesn't feel the need to release what he has. Especially at this point...

Frustrating for us...but understandable.

Perhaps he cares too much though. He got a bit of a mualing for CD, and maybe that's thrown him totally, confidence wise. He knows he can't be criticised for something people haven't heard. It could easily be fear.

I think this is the right read.  I'm sure the label was none too pleased at the whole CD release debacle.  And then Axl, in turn, wasn't happy with them.

Both sides basiclaly retreated to mutual state of "fuck me?  no...fuck you" and nothing else got done.

The reason I say Axl doesn't care is that Universal is hardly sitting on pins and needles waiting on what Axl Rose may or may not ever do for them.  And he certainly has a phone that dials out.  If he were to make that move, I can't imagine it makes much sense for Universal to stay mad at him from what happened in 2008.

But I see no evidence that call has been made.  And just thinking about it logicallly, I can't see what Universal would have to gain telling him to go fuck himself, if and when he ever does.  All the more so since he has a band now that most people would be willing to accept as Guns N' Roses, thus making it a more attractive product in the marketplace.

Oh, I totally agree.

That whole Magical Mystery Vault has enough baggage to fill a 747.  Which is why I think he should just set it all on fucking fire and start over with his current line-up.

If there is one killer riff or two worth saving, fine.  Bring it to the new guys and let them put a spin on it.  But otherwise, free yourself of all that stuff and start fresh.

He looks so happy now.  Build on that.  Don't start looking backwards to bad memories and drama.

I agree. I's speculate that his confidence is building on a live basis again, but I think we've got a while to go yet before he feels like letting anyone into anything new music wise. Wild speculation of course.

I havnt seen one of these pro Axl anti label doom and gloom posts in a very long time

What I do see all the time is

"They are on a world tour.  Wait till everyone in the world has had the chance to see them, in there individual city many times, in multiple venues.  Or if 2021 comes sooner then we can ask for new music"

I honestly think the general public couldn care less about a new gnr record   If it comes out.  Cool.  If it never comes out. Oh well.

I honestly think the hard core fans have just given up talking about it.   No more blame the label.  No more speculating on what may happen.  Just look at the huge lack of posts around here

That's what I never really understood.  If I recall, the reviews for CD when it came out were good.  The "media" wasn't trashing it.  Now, that didn't translate well to album sales (although I think some here think the album sold just fine) so maybe that's why he checked out.  It can't be because the artwork wasn't finished...right?

If there you was one killer song in this vault we would of heard about it

All these past members could always say.  "Shit I wish I had the rights to that killer riff Axl owns in his Vault".  Or "damn, I really wish I hadn't sold those lyrics to Axl they were killer"

Or

All the stuff we recorded was so so so good. Why won't Axl release it!

We hear nothing.  Which could be a non disclosure deal. But I am more leaning to the side of.  Bucket robin and tommy really don't care about the crap that much. 

We got a lawsuit from Chris for unpaid studio work....   but heard nothing about the quality of that work or what work it was exactly

I honestly don't think Axl has written any thing in many years.   

The reason we do not have a new original gnr music lays solely on Axl himself 

Well it did sell very well in Canada and Europe and South America   Hence that's where they toured for years

United States is where hey actually needed a proper marketing strategy

Ok, so if it sold well, and had good reviews, why did he disappear?  IMO, CD suffered from a lack of presence by Axl.  He wasn't out there standing behind it.  It made it seem like he didn't really care about it, and if he's not going to champion it, why should anyone else? 

I also think there is "mainstream" interest in another GnR album (at least one with Axl, Slash and Duff on it).  There has been an incredible amount of acceptance with the NITLT, why wouldn't that translate into interest in a new album? 

Man, I wish I knew some record company folks that could shed light on the obligations/commitments that Guns has to produce more albums (if any).

Or the people in guns n roses could actually talk about what's going on with the label and the record company

I think Axl disappeared at that time.   Guys that's what he does.  If he can't control the situation he avoids the situation

I think there is zero anticipation from he general public for a new album isn't there     They like there sweet child of mine and November rain

I never hear anyone talking about a new album.  You don't see reporters writing about it.   Fellow musicians talking about it.    Not a lot of interest

I have come to agree with this, I think the mainstream interest for this band has been demonstrated through the tour right now. If the touring around the release of CD roughly reflects the interest in that particular body of music, I think a new album/single/EP or anything by the current lineup will do very well.

Sales is hardly the measure these days, but with new music I think they can go out on a tour similar to this one in a year or two.

The reaction to any song off of CD I have seen live has been luke warm

What I have seen at shows is that the reaction to the hits is huge and then that's it

I am sure the album with the right marketing would sell big though

I just don't see people screaming or demanding to hear something

I don't know, I've been having this conversation with a lot of different people lately (mainly because I keep instigating it) and whilst you're right that people are quiet about it I don't think the reason is a lack of interest.

When I've brought it up and encouraged/directly asked people what they think responses have fallen into 3 broad categories:
1) It's not worth talking about because it's obviously going to happen. That's what bands do - they tour, then they record and release an album, then they tour again...and so on.
2) It's not worth talking about because it's never going to happen. They're going to tour until they're sick of it and/or have enough money to last the rest of their lives and then go their separate ways again.
3) Don't talk about wanting more, it took long enough to get to this point. Just be happy with what we've got.

Interestingly 1, the fairly neutral reaction is the one I've got most often from non/casual fans, probably because they don't realise that there's anything to complicate that situation. GNR = band = makes and plays music, end of story. Fans are more likely to have the stronger reactions and I've often gotten the distinct impression that they don't want to think about it. I think the cynics don't want to get their hopes up - if they expect the worst anything else is a nice surprise and the people who don't want to talk about it at all almost seem afraid they'll jinx it. It's the same attitude as people who won't let you say "Oh good, it's stopped raining" or "We should be just in time for the bus" because if you talk about something good happening you'll ruin it.

Which oddly enough, in this case, may have some basis in truth because I think people are right about Axl feeling under pressure to live up to expectations and preferring to avoid releasing anything to releasing something which disappoints people. Personally I think he shouldn't give a crap what we think and just release whatever music he wants to make but I accept that he probably doesn't see it that way.

On the subject of album sales lets not forget that GnR fans are not an insignificant group of people. There are a lot of us out there - as this tour is showing. Apparently the most successful album of 2016 in the USA was Adele's 25 which sold just under 2 million copies and was one of just 4 albums to sell over 1 million copies. So if even 1/10th of the people who (ever) bought a copy of either Use Your Illusion album bought the new one they'd wipe the floor with everything else in the charts.

Of course it's hard to predict exactly what would happen, even without factoring in what the album sounds like. The music industry is very different to even 9 years ago when CD came out. We're constantly being told people don't buy music any more, especially younger people, but if people I know are anything to go by rock fans seem to be more inclined to buy music than average, and more likely to buy whole albums than singles. But there's also been a shift in recognition of that which means it's much rarer for an albums success to be judged entirely on sales of physical copies.

All things considered I'd be very surprised if a new GnR album wasn't successful, no matter what it sounded like and I'd be extremely surprised if it didn't sound great. (To me anyway, can't speak for the rest of the world, those people are weird.)

My thought, and this total speculation on my part, is what if he doesn?t want to release anything, while at the same time he doesn?t want people to know that he doesn?t want to release anything.  Then, he would have to keep up this charade of having an album recorded, very seriously thinking about it, didn?t write it all to not get it released, etc., etc.  Simply put: he may not want to, but just doesn?t want that to negatively affect what is going on with Guns. 

I continue to believe that if he was hell bent on getting new music out there, he would find a way to do it.  He?s Axl-fucking Rose.  He could make it happen.

They don't really need a record company, just sell physical copies at shows and a digital album download from their web site.

People would pirate it anyway whether it was release thru traditional channels or not.

Damn shame the record industry is destroyed, it really hinders artist from putting a lot of time and energy and money into making truly great music.  We're looking at the last generation of legacy artists.

Any rock band who havent established themselves by now arent going to be selling concert tickets at $250 per seat or sell 6 million copies of an album years from now no matter how good they may be or how well of a career they have. Its a pretty shitty era to be an up and coming rock star.

A band like GNR would never even get out of the starting blocks now. The blame is fully on each and every person who thinks music isn't something worth paying. Fuck each and every of them- they're not fans of music, they're fucking vultures. And they'll use every excuse and reason in the book to justify the simple fact that they don;t want to put their hands in their pocket. It's tragic to see something I love so much stripped so bare. But all I can do is keeping buying music and support the bands and musicians I love.

Went for a drink with a friend of mine last night, who really isn't a GNR fan at all, and he was asking about the tour, and how the concerts were. He then asked me 'what are they going to next?". What a question!

The Chinese Democracy tour did ok, but it was nothing like we are seeing today.

I think that roughly reflects people's interest in Chinese Democracy as an album, it did ok.

Sure, the name "Axl" and "GN'R" drew a big percentage, But looking at the sales of the album and the numbers for the touring, it seems to relate.


If the turnout we are seeing on today's tour roughly reflects how many people would be interested in hearing new music by this lineup, new music will do very well.

Sales of a new album isn't important in today's environment, it's how good its ability is to draw crowds to a future tour that counts.



For now, people I've seen are just excited to get to see Axl, Slash and Duff back together. That's clearly the purpose of the tour as well, a sort of 'comeback' - greatest hits show.


Judging by the amount of people leaving the shows feeling satisfied with the experience, I can't see any reason for the majority of them not returning to hear new things in the future. A lot of people are clearly fans of this band ? a lot more with Slash and Duff being back.

While CD did get OK reviews and the sales weren't absolutely dreadful, there is DEFINITELY an opinion among the general public that it's shit. Most of them never even bothered listening to it of course, but I've had so so many people say to me "ah, they did that fucking awful album." This isn't people who are really into the band, but it is the general opinion I think. Along with- Axl is a dickhead, the band are always late, SCOM and the top hat.  I know plenty of people who seem to actively despise Axl, and I've never quite worked out why really, other than a general negative media perception that has pervaded over the past 20 years or so. I'd be surprised if this perception hasn't filtered through to Axl at least in part. It must have a massive knock on confidence.

Most of the people attending the shows during the CD tour were among the people who gave the album a chance at least. If they liked it or not, that's hard to tell.

Now, we're seeing the venues ? stadiums filling up. The additional people who are coming out now aren't big fans of CD I think, but they love the combination of Axl, Slash and Duff. They need these people to fill up venues this size, and I think they can sustain it with new music coming from that particular lineup.

I'm not convinced though that a new album would make them turn out again, at high ticket prices. This has sold on being a one off deal. Would new music actually pull in the casuals again?

I'm just making the argument that more people will be interested in new music by Axl, Slash and Duff compared to Chinese Democracy. Since the Chinese tour did pretty good after all, a new tour with new music by this lineup will (in my head at least) do even better.

It's like you said, many people didn't even listen to the album, and that was just because Slash wasn't there I suspect.

Agreed. He's the reason the live crowds have stepped up, for sure. The worry of course is if he goes again.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but in the UK, the 2010 in particular but to a less degree in 2012 the general economy had a part to play, and given the timing of CD being released and the world financial crisis, wouldn't have help casual sales either. I am definately not saying this is the whole story, far from it, but just putting a little context into how much disposible may have effected things at that time. Not to mention the downloaf mother fuckers...

a new GNR album with this line up would sell 20 times more than a new GNR album from Chinese Democracy era
People want to see/listen to Slash, Axl (and also Duff) together. Simple as that  :beer:

Yep, and get Steven and Izzy involved and advertise it as a full GNR reunion.  Sales appeal would be the best since.... well, since before the original band broke up.

I can't imagine Izzy being part of any record deal these days. Too much commitment! His solo stuff is self released right?

Izzy seems to do what he wants, when he wants. A good spot to be in. He doesn't need the money.

To be fair, none of the band need the money anymore!

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/chinese-democracy-20081127

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2008/11/album-review-gu.html

http://www.avclub.com/review/chuck-klosterman-reviews-chinese-democracy-2539

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1043457/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy

those are just a few of the good reviews of Chinese

http://www.waaf.com/blogs/watch-rock-be-welcomed-jungle-guns-n-roses-new-jumanji-trailer

It got OK reviews, sure. But in the eyes of the public- it got slated I'd say. Their minds were made up before it even came out.

No way is CD a 'turd'. It's my second favourite GNR album. I genuinely believe it's a masterpiece.

Just opinions man.

I have mine and you have yours.   I stated why I think it's a turd   I also state I think one of the songs is all time great and a couple others a really good   Still turdy thoug

Yeah of course. I guess more people share your opinion than mine though! Out of interest which song do you think is the great? And what is it that makea you dislike the album so much? Genuinely interested.

There was a time is a top 5 gnr tune

Not lettin the original CD artists keep there work on the album hurts it for me.   The turds come in the second half. 

Madagascar, shacklers and sorry are good tunes

Agree on TWAT. Catcher and IRS too. I read through the cd booklet again recently actually- it's difficult to keep up with who plays what on that album!

So, ideally, you want an entirely new record with the band as they stand now? Or you want Slash and Duff to move on? It's sometimes hard to work out your ideal scenario with GNR!

I would take any new original music with the label gnr on it   Just one song

You got a cut off for that? Say they finish touring at the end of 2017, we hear nothing,  then 2019 they announce another tour. What would your reaction be?

a "TURD" album does not sell 3.5 million or more worldwide. 99.9% of bands who play and write music across the world don't even come close to that. You guys live in a fantasy world. It is a good album. Period. Whether your gorilla friends or you like it or not has no bearing on anything. The cost of the album is meaningless as well. In the end, Best Buy bought it and paid for it. What skin is it off your back? Let it fucking go.....

I love CD, as I said above- but sales figures don't dictate whether something is a 'turd' or not. Look at Justin Bieber!

Defending Bacon a bit here- that's his opinion, which is totally fine. I don't agree with it, you don't either, but he's entitled to it. If he didn't like it, that's his view. I was interested in what he didn't like about it. I loved it- but I couldn't claim people were 'gorillas' for not liking it!

you're right but you're using a dumb argument. sales has nothing to do with quality.
shitty "pop music" always sells well. from new kids on the block to justin bieber, there are so many examples.

but yes, CD is a good album, even if I'm pretty sure there was better songs to put there from the "CD II"
project instead of some on this LP (but we have all our favorites and it would be pointless to name the
ones we could have scraped)

In the end, it was a commercial success and a critical success.  Axl put out a good album and it took a lot of balls to do it.

My reaction then would be the same as now.   

I feel they fall back on cover music far to much

They are alr day playing cities in 2017 that they just played.   So why do I have to wait till 2019?

Some people are fine watching this band do thebsame schtick night in and night.   Others arnt

How many times could they play your home town or local market with this same show? 

Personally, if they came round every, say 2 years or so, I'd be there. I'd be there if they played every year really. That's because they're my favourite band, I know I'll have a good time, and I'd enjoy it. I'll take what I can get on that front.

On the side of new music- yeah I'm massively keen. I really want it to happen. But I'm not letting it override and spoil my having a few more great nights out watching my favourite band, which I feel like you are. Just go with it. I wager 99.9999 per cent of this board want new material, it's not just you. don't let it get you down!

They are play vegas for the third time on a year and a half.   Is it wrong to expect a new show?

They are playing Toronto again   Is it so wrong to expect something different?

Well you may be fine with the band playin your Market every two years for the same show

They are now playing. My markets every year and eventually it would be nice to hear a new original song

It's not WRONG, but it's not RIGHT either. It is what it is- a tour. I mean, you're the consumer, you don't want what they're offering, you don't have to buy it. If it was me- I'd go again, and the same show wouldn't bother me. I know what I'm getting, and it's up to me. I know I'd have a great night out.

How about we see where we stand live show-wise come the (presumed) end of the tour in November? Let's come back to setlist discussion then.

Anyway- we'd better not derail this thread too much, as it's meant to be about the record label situation!

Well it's two different things   Well many different things

Not enough original music
Too many covers
And the same show in the same markets just played


I really hope in vegas we will get something different

That's the opinion of the decade right there.   : ok:

It's not because there's no good music, as a lot of illegal downloaders claim.  Even if there's a lack of it, what those dumbasses don't understand is that record companies don't take chances on new bands because of illegal downloading.  So the jerkoffs who illegally download music are hurting themselves as the music fans they claim they are, and they're hurting the artists they claim to support.

Human beings have a tendency to create and embrace technology that destroys them rather than advocates them, and all software that enables illegal downloading is certainly among that.

It's really a crying shame that technology advances too fast for it to contain itself and correct the repercussions along the way.  It's ridiculous that after all these years of illegal downloading, nobody has been able to concoct ANY technological antidote that actually works well enough to cap it off.

The best I've heard is "Oh I love music so much I can't possibly afford to buy it all". But you CAN afford that new pair of Nikes right? And that iPhone? Etc etc. But you won't stick your hand in your pocket to buy a 10 dollar CD by a struggling new band? Come off it. People are full of shit- and the fact they ruin my chances of hearing new music and letting it develop to it's full potential really angers me- as my view you quoted above probably says!

Without a doubt it's one of the reasons there is no new music from GNR. Not saying it's the ONLY one by any means, but it's one of them for sure.

GNR is not a struggling new band

GNR has an open market of roughly 50 000 fans every night that buy any thing from a silly t shirt to a silly poster at every concert.  Are you telling me these fans would not also be open to buying a new album at these concerts?   Geeze this isn't a struggling band playing in front of 10 relatives every night.  The market is right there.

No one is saying that. What we're saying is that, in general, the marketing and sales potential of new music has taken a massive hit. That means there's not as much pressure, or incentive on ANYONE to release new music. Touring is where the money is at now.

Gun n roses are a rarity right now in music

Huge rock band touring to huge sold out shows

If people are willing to shell out 40 for a silly t shirt at these shows.  They would be willing to shell out 20 for a new album st the show

The reason they do not have a new album or a new song out is because of Axl

There are no mystery reasons.   With the record label.  Or the state of music sales today or anything else.   

If Axl wanted to release a new single we would have it.   

That's the point we're making though- people AREN'T willing to pay for an album. They feel it should be free.
Take this, from Roger Daltry of The Who for instance:

Daltrey scoffed at the idea of releasing new music during a recent interview with Rolling Stone, admitting that although he and his fellow Who survivor Pete Townshend have ?talked about? making another album, he no longer sees the point.

?There?s no record industry anymore. Why would I make a record?? Daltrey wondered. ?I would have to pay to make a record. There?s no royalties, so I can?t see that ever happening. There?s no record business. How do you get the money to make the records? I don?t know. I?m certainly not going to pay money to give my music away free. I can?t afford to do that. I?ve got other things I could waste the money on.?

?The way the internet has come about has been the biggest robbery in history, like musicians should work for nothing,? he argued. ?You get paid for streaming, my ass. There?s no control. Musicians are getting robbed every day. And now it?s creeping into film and television, everything now. You notice, the internet is a slowly but surely destructive thing in all ways. I don?t think it?s improved people?s lives. It?s just made them do more work and feel like they?re wanted a bit more, but it?s all bollocks.?

So that's The Who, basically saying they won't record and release anything more, and piracy is the reason. There will be many many others like that too. Who's to say GNR don't feel the same?  We're suggesting that this could be ONE of MANY reasons that new music isn't forthcoming.

The Who, have many many many more albums than GNR

The Who are not touring to sell out world wide crowds like GNR are.   

None of what you are saying relates to GNR

They are a rarity in this case.  A few reasons.

The are performing to world wide concerts 50 000 a night.  Millions of fans have spent hundreds of dollars supporting this band recently

These fans are buying silly stuff at these concerts, from foam fingers to posters to t shirts.  These fans would welcome the idea of spending money on a new album or single.

From all accounts the second half of the CD album is already recorded as well as a remix album.  Where are the costs involved here?

There are many excuses why this band hasn't released a new album in years but no reasons other than Axl himself

My own opinion is that new music from GNR and downloading songs from the internet are two separate issues.

I have said this before that it's still too soon for GNR to put out a new single or an album. They are still touring and traveling to places that the three of them TOGETHER haven't been to since the early 90s. For example, I read this morning that they will be in Israel on July 16th. It's the first time since 1993 that they have traveled together to Israel. It's also the first time where it is a completely soldout outside concert.

Having said that, downloading music is just an excuse NOT to create new music by bands. Stevie Nicks used that excuse for not rejoining Fleetwood Mac for a new album. There were rumors that she either didn't want to  be in the same room as Lindsay Buckingham or that she's focus on her solo career. Members of Fleetwood Mac did appear on an album by Buckingham and McVie. In addition, you do have bands like Halestorm, Shinedown,  Pretty Reckless, etc. that are creating new music despite the Internet age.  Furthermore, you'll never see any genre dominate music like the pre-Internet age. There's just too many avenues to consume music.   

They are def two separate issues

Just curious.

When in your mind isn't it going to be too soon for GNR to put out a single or a album? 


You used the excuse I have been reading for a year, they are touring and showing this act to people that havnt seen it before.  Cool.

So are they not coming back to North America right away and playing markets, if not cities they have just previously played?

What is your time frame opinion?  And how many visits to cities does this band get to make before we start asking for new material

Baconman- to me the tour isn't an excuse. Axl and Slash had a huge falling out. They didn't speak for 20 something years. Obviously, it was something major for it to be that long. There's been hints throughout the years, but no one knows for sure exactly what happened except for Axl and Slash.

When you have been away from a person for that long due to that type of an argument then it's going to take some time for two people to reestablish the relationship. I think this tour helped them to reestablish the chemistry and their friendship.

It seems like this tour will be over in the fall. If we don't get any new music at some point next year then I would have to be concerned and say that it's probably over. Until then, let them enjoy traveling the world and the people who haven't seen them, yet, enjoy it as well!

Nobody likes to answer the question

You just said give the world time to see this act and then we can talk about new music.  You said it's too soon to release something   It's what you said

So when they play a city they have just played a year previous hasn't that city seen this show yet?

Now you are saying the fall...    so what if more arena tour dates are announced in cities they have just played?

How many times do they get to play the same market with the same show before the request should be made to release new music ?   

In some instances, some people have not seen the show if it was in the same area.

I can tell you that some people didn't see GNR when they were at MetLife Stadium. MetLife Stadium is 14 miles from NYC. However, it is very hard to get to via train or bus.  It's located in the middle of a freaking swamp. Commuting to work in NYC from NJ, I can assure you that NJ Transit has become unreliable in the 13 years that I have commuted. It is also the second largest public transportation system in the U.S.

For people who live in Manhattan, it's easier to go to a show if it's in Madison Square Garden, Barclay Center, Yankee Stadium, or Citifield. It's much tougher to go to MetLife even though MetLife is only 14 miles away. The same holds true if you are commuting into NYC to see a concert/show. I'm going to the October 11th show since I work in NYC. If October 15th was the only available show then I wouldn't be going due to how difficult  NJ Transit is for a Sunday night/Monday morning. I have friends of mine who would go to the show if it was on a Friday or Saturday, but due to the commute it's just not possible. 

If they feel they can hit the same cities on the same tour and still sell tickets, then ok, cool. No one is making anyone go. When this tour finishes and the band actually have free time, THEN is the time. It doesn't seem it but it's exhausting being on tour.

Let's give them time. Get worried if there's another tour in a few years with no new material. If that happens, we can probably assume it's game over for new music.

Again you didn't answer any question, just gave a round about opinion.

In Vegas they are playing the exact same venue they have played twice before.

In Toronto they are playing a venue that is a 5 min walk from the one the played a year before

A few years?  Oh man, you do have some patience.   

I can't really talk about why they are playing in the same venue for Vegas or Toronto. I'm not from there. I CAN talk about why they are playing the NYC area TWICE in 2 years since I am from the area.  I'm giving you the answer BUT you don't want to listen.

They are touring arenas in the fall.  Many markets are the exact same   One venue is the exact same   You gave an example of one market where the stadium and arena are not close.  I gave two examples.  One where the venue is exactly the same and the other where the venue is 5 mins from the stadium that they played at last year

This is all in relation to your comment that everyone has to have a chance to see this band  give them some time and a chance before a single or album comes out   Are you only speaking for your specific market now?  If so when does that end?  Do they now have to play a small club as well in New York?  Oh yeah they are doing that right away as well

If you are talking about the tour as a whole like everyone else then when does it end?  How many times are they allowed to play vegas now without producing new material ?    When is enough enough   

Bacon, you are talking like these shows have already happened.

They're still in Europe.

Well they are about to happen.  And did just happen

So just like everything else with this band time to speculate

You're also stuck on repeat Bacon. Let the tour ride out, then start talking aboht new material. Nothing is gping to change while they're on the NITL tour. If you want sonethin different, I advise you to not go. 

I just went to a Bon Jovi show where there were 20,000 people. He played new songs, and people around me were grumbling-they wanted to hear the "80 stuff"-he last album pretty much fell off the charts. The majority of fans at concerts these days want to hear hits-especially fans who have never seen Guns-like many on this tour. Just because 50,000 go to a concert does not mean they will buy a new album of material

Riiiiiight.......

So at a guns concert you get

20% cover songs
and 10-15% songs off of the album CD

Are fans lining up to hear guns sing cover songs or songs off of CD?

Bon Jovi also had many hits into the 90s and 200s, they have a ton of albums....   Play lots of songs off of every album.

You were sitting next to some horrible bon jovi fans if all they waned to hear was.  The albums Slippery When Wet and New jersey

Keep the faith
have a nice day
Crush

Where all hit albums with hit songs released well after the 80s

Damn I wish I could be a guns fan and get to pick through songs from over 20 plus albums!!!!!   

We get 4 original albums of material to pick from.   

Most would rather hear cover songs, honestly.  I'm not sure if you understand most people going to Guns concerts probably didn't buy Chinese Democracy. Motley Crue toured for years after Saints of L. A.-which was released in ..2008.  Guns is going to tour for quite a while with probably the same setlist. And do great business.

But you are NOT a GnR fan. You just haven't realized it yet. You don't like ANYTHING about them. Not their latest album (Chinese), you don't like their set-list, you don't like half of the band members, you don't like the way they communicate with their fans, press or whatever, you don't like their fans, their shows, the way they go about things, where they tour, how they tour. I am not saying who is a 'real fan', but everything you say is pointing towards not liking a single thing about this band. Thus, the conclusion can be drawn you dislike them --> so not a fan of the band.

You only like an album that was released a million years ago. You DON'T like THIS BAND. If you did, you wouldn't be whining over and over again about the same things. Like, you literally type the SAME message everyday. You're like the guy who comes to a party but just keeps saying how boring and dumb the party is, but won't go home. Go home, please. Or to a Bon Jovi forum, where you are more in your element.

I like songs off there last album (almost 10 years ago)  but didn't like the album as a whole
I think there set list is just fine for a one off show, I have said this many times.  Sure wish they would write some more original material though, so they didn't have to play so many covers
They don't communicate with there fans, that's right, I don't like that
There is no press or media, that's right, I don't like that
I have nothing against there fans
I love the fact that they are touring, I would like for when they visit cities they have just played or markets they just played, that they change up the show.
Do I really have to life Frank or Richard or the girl to be a fan?  I don't mind them, in fact I couldn't careless about them....  Def don't hate them or not like them
This is the first time I have ever posted this, first time today, first time any day.

So the way I see it, I am a huge fan.  I am also very critical.

Like I said to the other poster, if you don't like it, don't read it, don't respond, go join one of these very lively other threads out there.........   This place is just bumping with conversation......  Sheesh, there was just a concert in Paris and nobody here could even be bothered to start a thread or discussion.    Go join the birthday thread jack...  The way I see it, I am a fan, the only conversation starting pieces on here are what I post and its a shame most of these fans don't want to talk about the obvious. 

Repeat markets played, no interviews, no new music, to many covers.

And the best situation for GNR fans in 25 years.  You tend to leave that part out.

You have to be the only one that wants to return things to 5 years ago when only the diehard of the diehard true Axl zealots still thought things were going great.  Most stopped paying attention.  Many that were still in the fold were doing the equivalent of "hate watching" a TV show they long fell out of love with, but keep on watching out of a combination of sadism and sheer habit.

Who the hell wants that back?  My favorite band is no longer seen as a joke, as it was for 2 decades. 

That's a bad thing?  Not in any rational universe.

Only thing I would want back from 5 years ago would be

That it was only 5 years since my fav band released an album

Now it's been 10

Glad your fandom relies on how many likes you get on the Facebook you get for stupid posts regarding nonsense

Keep up the praise and lack of conversation on a gnr forum

Comment how it's not right how others arnt along fine this ride full steam   Eating every bit of corn that this band shits out

This is the way the music industry is going-U2 and Billy Joel are not doing press in my town-do I wish Guns would? Yes. But I've accepted they wont, and moved on. Do I wish they were like Dave Matthews with their setlist? Yes. You tube Eddie Trunk talking about whether there will be a new Guns album-he sums it up pretty well. They are ding killer business right now. My 3 favorite bands are GNR, Van Halen, and R.E.M.  R.E.M are done-Eddie Van Halen has done less press and touring than Axl in the last 20 years. Sammy Hagar is worth a gazillion dollars but wont do another Chickenfoot record because it wont sell, and he said he's not going to get up and do interviews to promote an album people wont buy. Read Duff's latest book about touring for Walking Papers. He did it with the band in a van. These guys are business men. Do I wish it were the 90's when bands did album/tour/album/tour? Yes. But it's not a situation exclusive to Guns. It sucks, but it's reality. I've often said my favorite time of the band was in 2002. I do understand your frustration. But I guess part of me understands the situation and accepts it

Bacon, what's this 'setlist is ok for a one off show' shut about? You saying that you think they should have dobe obe show?! Or change the set completely every single night? You realise both of those sceanarios are never going to happen right?

It still surprises me. 

That after being acussed of saying the same thing in every post   People seem to only want to erase what they want to see.  Or can't be bother d to read at all

I have said many times this show/act that guns n roses does including the setlist.  Works just fine for a one off show

A stadium show is a lot like a movie.   This movie is on release all through out the world    It is what it is

What I don't like is when they play two nights in the same market that the show is on repeat    I don't like that
What I can't accept is if this show comes comes back to markets they just played and cities they have played recently more than once and this show hasn't changed   That's just bullshit

As a one off show it's fine.  I vote it 8/10.  There are things I don't like about the show    Too many covers.   Too many jams. A couple of songs that are just way to long (rocket queen and kohd) l, lack of crowd interaction. But overal a solid 8-10

Who is talking about press in hometowns.  That would be the ultimate.  I am talking about doing some sortaress period.  Some sorta media or fan interaction.  Both U2 and. Illy Joel do this.   Local interviews would be a rare welcome or thing as well    I would settle for a national print interview though

R.E.M. Is one of my all time bands as well.   I only wish Guns had the catalogs of songs they did   I was lucky enough to see R.E.M. 4 times and would love for guns to put on the type of show rem did.   Songs off of every album.   There own material  and when they where still releasing music they played it right till the end

Guns has 4 albums.  Everyone is comparing them to all these other bands that have a huge backlog of hits and tons of albums

Guns has 4 albums.  3 of the albums where hits there was a handful of hits on each album.  Fans act like all the songs where hits   Not even close.  3 of the 4 albums where hits.  There were a few hits off each album.   I can't give guns n roses credit for being a nostalgic touring act.  There just isn't enough material  hense all the cover songs and long jams   I guess there material can be called mpIred to that of the sex pistols when they did a reunion tour years ago.   Not a whole lot of content there 

Wait, so a band that is touring on 4 albums AND is the best selling rock act of this moment (rock, so not those dipshits of Coldplay included) does not have enough hits? Are you kidding me? Your logic seems pretty flawed. Literally everything they play is good enough to make a few million PER NIGHT. Seems like hit songs to me then. Even the covers are songs that pretty much everyone in the crowd wants to hear.

Guns plays Estranged. And still random fans pay a lot to see them and come out to see them. Have you even looked at YouTube plays of Estranged? It has almost 100 million views on YouTUbe. An almost 30 year old, 10 minute guitar solo driven song non-commercial song has more plays than the average current day Top 40 hit song. You really have no idea how the music industry works.

Guns is literally touring their greatest hits right now and the WORLD IS LOVING IT.

The tour has sold off of Slash and Axl back on stage again.  And fans wanting to hear songs like November rain and sweet child of mine

Call it a greatest hits tour if you want.   I really don't think there is that many hits being played.  A few hot albums

Ask love the insults for an opinion that differs from yours, this will be my last time responding to one of your fan boy posts

There where no greatest hits off of the album CD
These 7-9 cover songs jams where not considered hits and nobody around me when I saw the band live wanted to hear them.   We came to a Guns show to hear Guns music
Estranged is a great song  played live great.  I have never once said other wise    Kohd is a bloated cover song that is way to long.   Rocket queen while a nice b track off a album and sounds good on the album when played live is just to long because of the extended bloated jams in the song.   

You call this a greatest hits tour all you want

I call it a quasi reunion tour that represents a few songs off of each album.  A few of those albums where hits a few of these song where hits   It also features a lot of jams and cover songs.   All in all a sold 8/10

So you 'don't think that many hits are being played'? Huh? Let's have a look at the tracklist of The Greatest Hits,.....

1 Welcome To The Jungle -PLAYED NIGHTLY

2 Sweet Child O' Mine - PLAYED NIGHTLY

3 Patience - PLAYED NIGHTLY
 
4 Paradise City - PLAYED NIGHTLY

5 Knockin' On Heaven's Door -PLAYED NIGHTLY

6 Civil War - PLAYED NIGHTLY

7 You Could Be Mine - PLAYED NIGHTLY

8 Don't Cry - PLAYED NIGHTLY

9 November Rain - PLAYED NIGHTLY

10 Live And Let Die -PLAYED NIGHTLY

11 Yesterdays - PLAYED NIGHTLY

12 Ain't It Fun - COVER VERSION, NOT PLAYED
 
13 Since I Don't Have You - COVER VERSION, NOT PLAYED

14 Sympathy For The Devil - COVER VERSION, NOT PLAYED

So which 'greatest hits' are you accusing them of not playing? The three cover versions?

Also- you're saying it's not a Greatest Hits set, because they're doing other songs? It's the Greatest Hits, and other stuff? So your problem is what? That they're doing other stuff? That they're NOT doing Greatest Hits (even though as the above shows, they are)? That they're NOT doing other stuff? Huh?! I'm really really confused as to what the hell you think this band should be doing, other than pulling brand new unheard songs out of their arse every night....

Lol, get off your high horse mate. None of your opinions mean anything to anyone other than yourself. Most of your posts don't even make sense, and read like they were written by an 8 year old. So I am cool with that being your last response to my posts  :beer: Bye bye now  :hihi:

So you are just ignoring the one post above this.  Where I elain to you and the board for probably the 10th how I feel this is a fine one off show?   And what I would like to see ...

I also explained how I don't think this is a greatest hit tour.  They dolly a lot of there hits   Shot they have beeayong them for  years   ReD wht you want to read I guess

What would make this a greatest hits tour, other than playing the greatest hits?! That baffles me!

What do you mean about ignoring the post above? I'm totally lost.

So I responded to this and commented on it.  But it seems to be your nature to ask a question. Get an answer  ignore the answer.  Quote something g else out of context and ask another question

Like you and I just said this band has been playing these hits of albums for 30 years non stop   There just isn't enough greatest hits to make a pure concert devoted to them

They could do a greatest hit album tour.   Where all they play is songs off of afd and the two uyi albums   All three of those albums where hits   For extra songs from a borderline album they could play songs off of lies.    That would be a true hit album tour

Yeah you reeled out the spiel about it being 'ok for a one off show' but them not going to the same venues and doing the same set etc etc. We got it.

What I'm asking, is why the hell you now think the setlist ISN'T a Greatest Hits one? I mean, that's a fresh complaint from you at least, but it's pretty surreal. Absolutely ALL the hits are in there!

Hold on- now you're saying you ONLY want stuff from AFD and UYI?! So let me get this straight - you want them to play new music, but only REALLY new music, not music off their last album? So you want the old stuff, and brand new stuff we've never heard- but nothing in between?!

Great responds to a question you asked.   I will remember that in the future

You last question was already answered last page.    Sure that birthday thread is looking a little t better for you ....   geeze all these fans on here of talking about how great each concert is couldn't even be bothered to start a thread about the last show   Interest is at a all time peak

Using "all you fans" like it's a derogatory term? Yeah, we're fans, that's why we're on a GNR fan forum! Why are YOU here? What is it you want? You seem to have nothing but total disrespect for anyone who enjoys a show.

More questions you really don't want answers too??

If you are going to quote, quote properly please.   "Geeze all these fans on here of talking about how great each concert is, couldn't even be bothered to start a threat about the last show.  Interest is at a all time peak"

I stay out of threads about recent concerts.   Something about the, "yeah yeah yeah", not my cup of tea.   Seems to be yours though, which is why I surprised you are none of the other fans that like those threads didn't start one for the Paris show...  I guess reading my posts and continually responding to them with questions you don't want to read answers too...   

I really cant wait for this band to come back to north America and play some of these markets that they have just played.  I am very curious if the show will change up a bit.  Will be big decision in myself spending any more money on the band in the near future.
 

You stay out of thr concert threads? Nonsense. You're in them all the time- seem to remember Jarmo asking you to drop it with the words 'i won't ask nicely again' in one of them cery recently.

The reason us 'yeah yeah yeah' fans end up reading your garbage is that you hijack every single damn thread saying the same thing. Tell you what-start a thread of your own. Use it to say the same thing over and over.I assure you all us poor deluded fans will ignore it and not respond to you-which seems to be what you want.

So you spent the majority of your posts divorced to me asking me questions and yet you do not what to read the answers.   Stick to the birthday thread.  It suites you.   You can ask questions like.  "Who's birthday is it today?"    And "I love Thursdays!"   

Past response ever to something you directed to me

For fuck's sake would you please stop?

I think it's very interesting to see what will happen next music wise in the Guns N Roses landscape. They're obviously touring right now to warm up the crowds to new material, and also to gel with each other again.

Seeing that they're still with Interscope, I am pretty sure that after SUCH a successful tour all throughout the USA, Asia and Europe the record company is willing to invest in new recordings and a full on marketing plan. So I think when they'll hit the USA again later this year, new music will be released.

Or maybe they signed a deal with Live Nation for new music and tours? That could be a possibility too, no?

Exciting times to be a fan!

Obviously? are you new to GN'R?  ;D
I think that if they were "touring to warm up the crowds to new material", as you said, they'd already play a new tune or two - that's how it usually goes - playing something new to see how the crowd react.
Then again, when you're packing 50-60K venues, maybe it's not the right crowd to test upon new songs..

As for this tour, I really believe it's a nostalgic one - hence The Godfather/ Attitude etc.
There is something else that I've noticed but kept quiet about it, fearing to be another internet conspiracist: have you notice how Axl wore a bones (leather?) jacket in the first couple of shows, much like the one he wore in several 88' shows? And Duff with his polka dot shirt, like the one he wore at the Freddie Mercury Tribute? And Slash, well... Slash is Slash..

.....Got a bit off topic, sorry.
Anyway, as much as I'd LOVE to hear new material - hell, even a Christmas/ Hanukkah/ Ramadan album played on traditional Mongolian instruments - I don't see it coming, and if - praise Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha & Groucho Marx - if I'm wrong - I don't think it has anything to do with the touring.

LOL, no no. Def not new to GnR. Been a fan since '88 when I got Appetite as a present from my parents (who gives that to their 8 year old?). But of course I understand what you mean. If I think about it rationally, I'd look at it that way too. But I really want to believe there's something on the way. They're not being such goodie 2 shoes with going on at time -early even-, Live Nation is not investing this much and Axl and Slash didn't make amends just for nostalgia. I believe they all think there's enough there to work with. I mean, both Slash and Duff have expressed often how much great GnR music they still want/have/had made.

But again, I am just speculating. I could be way off. But to me, it doesn't make sense the way they all are (very much about writing stuff). Axl has expressed many time he's all about the art. So he must have some really good songs in his vault that he believes need to be released at the right moment.

I want to believe similar, but just can't really. Been burned way too many times in the past. Live Nation are investing this much in GNR because at the moment it's making a large amount of money- and I find it difficult to see beyond that. The ticket prices are a constant sour point with me. sure, I forgot them the moment they came on stage- but they're still a sour point that tell me it's all about money, much I'd rather not admit that to myself. I don't think it's ALL about money, but I think denying money is a major factor would be fairly blinkered.

I just keep hoping my intuition is wrong with it all - but my intuition is that the tour wraps up at the end of the year, radio silence is resumed, then we get another tour in 2/3 years time. I don't want that to be the future of my favourite band really, as I feel they have SO much more to offer, and hope I'm wrong.

Yes, but three years ago (and the prior 17 before that) the prospect of Axl and Slash reuniting was nonsense.  I mean, you would get laughed at here as a crazy person if you were holding out for such a thing.  Now, look what we have.  Hell has frozen over, or, more appropriately, cancer has been cured, and these guys are back together.  I always associated the chances of a reunion about the same as new music...next to nothing.  I understand the cautious optimism...but we got the reunion, you know, that thing that was never, ever, ever going to happen.  Things change. 

Very, very true. That's the glimmer of hope we have, alongside many many years of frustration.

Axl is unpredictable. When you reach the point of being ready to give up hope dang! here he goes again. :D  So you never know. It's just not going to happen before the tour ends, and we don't even know when they will wrap up the tour  . The tour follows the UYI pattern so it might not end in November, but in summer '18 instead.

To be honest, can't say I've lost hope but if there's anything the waiting for CD has taught me, is that it'll happen when it'll happen.
And I've got lots of patience :)

Perhaps we can get Dr Pepper to make another promise and shift things along.......

I wonder if this time they will let Slash have his drink  :hihi: