Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Source Rolling Stone


5 Things Guns N' Roses Should Do on Their 2017 Tour
Mix up the set list, minimize the instrumental breaks, bring back Izzy and more
 
Guns N' Roses are almost certainly heading back to North America in 2017, and here are five ways they can make the shows even better than in 2016.
By Andy Greene

There's been no official announcement, though all signs are pointing to Guns N' Roses coming back to North America in 2017. We aren't just talking about metaphorical signs. There are actual billboards in cities they skipped this year, like Montreal, teasing another tour. They already have 2017 dates booked in Japan, New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Thailand and Dubai that run though March 3rd. The band has yet to touch down in Europe since reuniting, so it's unclear when exactly the North American shows are going to happen, but they seem like a certainty.
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Guns N' Roses Hint at 2017 Tour With Video Teaser
The 2016 leg of the Not in This Lifetime tour was a triumph in many ways, and not just because Slash and Axl managed to peacefully coexist on a stage without any signs of turbulence. (The fact that the tour grossed over $114 million may have something to do with that.) Not only did Axl sound better than he has in years, but he showed up on time every night and actually seemed to enjoy himself. Slash breathed new life into the Chinese Democracy songs and the old members and new members meshed better than many expected. All that said, there are ways the shows could be even better. We know Axl Rose loves nothing better than being told what to do, particularly by the press, but here are some suggestions.
1. Eliminate some of the instrumentals and covers.
The show is great whenever Axl is onstage, but every few songs he seems to wander off while the band plays covers like "Wish You Were Here," "Attitude" and the theme from The Godfather. This goes all the way back to the Use Your Illusion tours of 1992-93. The pauses allow Axl to change outfits and catch his breath, but they also really kill the momentum. He managed to get through the AC/DC tour without constantly walking offstage. Maybe Axl should shorten the gigs a little bit, run around a little less and spend a little less time backstage.


2. Change around the set list.
Guns N' Roses don't have a huge catalog, especially since they aren't going to play more than three or four Chinese Democracy tunes and six Use Your Illusion songs each night. Eliminate songs like "Get in the Ring" and "One in a Million" that'll simply never get played for obvious reasons and you have a small pool of songs to draw from. That doesn't mean the band has to play the same songs in the same order each night. Right now, the only real drama comes at the beginning of the encore when they pick between "Patience" and "Don't Cry." It's so predictable that fans know Slash will always play a tiny bit of "Voodoo Child" every night at the end of "Civil War." How about mixing it up a bit so we don't always know what's coming next? Maybe open with "Welcome to the Jungle" and do "It's So Easy" a little later. Why not do something crazy and open with "November Rain" and throw everyone off balance. Concerts aren't Broadway shows. There should be some element of surprise.
3. Utilize Steven Adler more.
Nobody expects Steven Adler to stay behind the kit for the entire show and handle complex tunes like "You Could Be Mine." Frank Ferrer is a stellar drummer and an integral part of the band. But as long as Axl is willing to let Adler onstage, it shouldn't just be for one song every few months. The dude recently flew down to Buenos Aires to play a single song at one show. That's a lot of travel time for a four-minute song. The Rolling Stones gave Mick Taylor a lot more than that. How about letting Adler play a couple more Appetite for Destruction songs? He's quite capable of handling them.


4. Celebrate Appetite's anniversary.
July 21st, 2017, will mark the 30th anniversary of Appetite for Destruction. Most of the songs are in the regular rotation. One night, perhaps even on the exact anniversary, why not reward the fans by playing the whole thing in sequence? It shouldn't be that hard to rehearse "Think About You," "Anything Goes" and "You're Crazy." Only "Anything Goes" hasn't been done since the Eighties. The others were played in the 2000s. A full-album run-through would totally re-shuffle the show, but it would be a lot of fun.
5. Bring back Izzy.
This is a big one, and we know it is unlikely. As an original member, Izzy would want an equal share of the money, but his presence wouldn't bring in that much extra cash. That would mean Axl, Slash and Duff would have to give up some of their earnings. This tour is already a very efficient machine. Rehearsing Izzy would take a lot of work, especially if his return would mean the departure of Richard Fortus. Also, Izzy isn't exactly the world's most dependable guy and hasn't been on a real tour since 1992. There's too much money at stake to risk losing a show because Izzy rode off into the desert one night and didn't make the next gig. All of that said, Izzy is a key part of this band and it would be wonderful if he came back in some fashion, even for just a song or two. The ultimate dream, of course, is a show with the classic five-man lineup and no others, but that remains very, very hard to imagine. Of course, a tour with Axl and Slash seemed impossible just a couple of years ago, so we suppose anything is possible.
(http://)

This I Love :hihi:

Slash comes on stage on his own and starts playing something and the crowd is a little what's this. Then lights to the piano and Layla starts like it ever has.

Meh... what a random article full of unrealistic whining. All are such a moot point at this time. Or as Joey Tribbiani would say 'a cow's opinion'  :hihi:

There is one good point in this stability. It is possible to plan a beer and toilet break :beer:

Looks like Rolling Stone also wants GNR to focus even more in the past. If I had to propose 5 changes for the next tour they would all have to be with new music (for ''new'' I mean completely new and unreleased songs from the ChiDem Era).

No more 30 years old guitar solos, no more winks to the nineties, no more ''nostalgic'' vibe at the shows. And add more ChiDem, 4 or 5 completely new songs, 2 or 3 never heard songs from 1996-2014. GNR is an extraordinary band with great musicians, and focusing in the future is what they deserve as the artists they are.

Basically you just want to return to Axl's solo years, with added new 'gnr' songs ?

Isn't that what we have now, minus the new songs? I mean, I saw GNR with and without Slash. The main difference was, Slash was there. Setlist wise, yeah I got to hear Coma and Double Talkin' Jive, but other than that, it was the same basic show as Guns without Slash. Which isn't a bad thing, but as far as what I'm getting, it's the same show really.

New music, for many of us, would be the biggest improvement.

I don't know anything, but my gut feeling tells me we'll see some of that in 2017. Otherwise new dates in the USA don't really make that much sense to me....

I like the suggestion of celebrating Appetite, playing the whole album in the set would be a nice way to honor the anniversary.

I actually like the instrumentals, gives Slash in particular the spotlight.

The cover songs never bothered me.

But new material would be fantastic.

Oh I hope so.

I think I could of wrote this article myself.   I have been saying many of these same points this whole tour

Original music......   why not?!?!?    No covers!!

Some of these songs they play are so long.  To play every night really takes away from other songs they could through in there
How about only play either estranged or combo each night.  One or the other.  Play the song as the first one in the encore and switch nightly.  This would spice it up a bit for fans going to back to back shows and with 10 mins or so saved from playing one of these epic songs nightly you can fill it with some of guns shorter songs

The tour is extremely unlikely to be much different in 2017 than it was in 2016.

But you know what?  That's fine.  Recognize that half of the planet has still yet to see what a lot of us got in 2016.  Let them have that.

If, god willing, there is a next tour...that is when we talk about changes.  But what you see now is the NITL tour, and should remain so until they've hit everywhere.

The next North American leg for this tour has pretty much been confirmed

You are saying you are fine with everything being the same with the tour because people on the other side of the world haven't gotten the chance yet to experience this?

The rumoured dates here are very very close distance to cities they played in the summer, some the same

Change it up!   

Exactly the way I feel.  If they are touring the same areas again in 2019 with the same set list then it will be a problem.  That was why I skipped GNR when they came to NYC in 2013, I had seen that show nearly 10 times already.  How many times have people on this forum criticized a show that they watched on YouTube only to be told "its much different when you're there in person!".  Let everyone get that live experience first, then we can complain  ;D

So if they play New York again this leg in a different venue are you going to skip it?

If they play Vegas again I plan on going there as I missed them last time.   If they play rattle again in a different venue I will not be travelling down there    If they swim through western Canada I will go to at least one show. If they switch up the act nightly like they have done in the past.  I will go to multiple shows

Like I have said in a previous thread.   Many people around here have travelled many times to see this band recently. Just because they are now playing locally doesn't make it a new thing

First, no I will be attending another NYC show if they decide to come back.  With the old band they had toured on the set list for over a decade and I couldn't take it anymore.  I am not bored with seeing Axl, Slash & Duff onstage together no matter what they play  ;)

Secondly, ok people traveled to see the show.  Does that really matter?  If they decide to travel again and are bummed again to see the same set list, that is the risk you take.  They can choose to not go see a future show if they want.  No one is being forced to spend money and travel.  Do what I did with the GNR of 2013 and hit them with your wallet.

In the end, this is the only way you can get a band's attention.  If you aren't happy with what they're doing then stop going to shows, stop buying merch, stop streaming their music online and stop discussing them on social media and forums like this.  If/when that happens the band/management will take notice and if they care they'll make changes accordingly. 

Exactly.  Even though there have been breaks, this is still all part of this same quasi-reunion tour.  And the show is the show.

If once this wraps up, and they take a year or two off, that is when you can't come back with the same setlist, same video screen graphics, and so forth.

If the tour in 2019, 2020, or whenever it is, opens with :

It's So Easy
Mr. Brownstone
Chinese Democracy
Welcome To The Jungle
Double Talkin' Jive
Estranged

...then, we have a problem. 

But not before.

No

They never really changed anything up on this first North American leg   Ok. Ok your points are valid for that.   Especially with stadium gigs

I Would consider this next wave of North American concerts the second wave of shows.   The second leg of a tour

With  1 year probably between shows in it not the same cities. Cities that are very close

I would expect change

But if you don't cool

If you want to go see the band again live and have no problems with them playing the same music   Same covers.  Same jams     Cool.  Good for you

I would expect on a second leg of a tour a year after the first shows that things get mixed up.  I want more original music.  Less covers.   

Meh? Are u a sheep ,anyway maybe unrealistic however a bit more spontaneity in Europe would be cool maybe Izzy might show up for a couple of gig's if he feels the urge.

I dont think it's so much that as I the fact I'm just a realist.

I'd like Pearl Jam level variety in the setlists.  But, having never done that, ever, going on 30 years of touring...I don't really see the value hoping it's around the corner.

Some songs, some of them covers, will always be in the setlist.  Just how it is.

Although, I have to be honest.

Axl was able to crank through 2 hours of AC/DC with no breaks of any kind.  One song after the other.  And he sounded GREAT.

So, it's not like he couldn't cut some of the filler and jams out of GNR sets.  He doesn't NEED all those breaks, really.  That AC/DC tour rather refuted that premise.

Glad you found another way for this to end in the dead horse

You rambled on about nothing

Overly said you are ok about everything   Fakely

What's up gang

Yeah I'd love to hear slither and perfect crime ... Yeah I'd love to see them mix up the order ... Would make following the shows from home more interesting


... But you guys botching about the set list at this point in time after the year we just had is ...

Astounding .... To put it nicely

I should start posting how I wish they'd drop LALD and KOHD.

Go topical with it.

(Did you know even Dylan himself doesn't play that every night?  True story.)

It's idiotic.

Half the world hasn't seen it once yet.  Better switch it up!

It's Axl and slash!  They could come out on stage and play anything over and over again ans long as it's Axl and slash!!  And it doesn't matter if they have already played locally because when hey come back and play the same music written by other people it's ok because because people in Russia haven't gottten the chance to see this act.   And when they come back the third time it still won't matter because I heard they are playing a show in some city in China later and they still haven't gotten a chance to see them
And it doesn't matter that this band has been playing 80% of these songs in the same order for a decade because it's not the same band.  It's Axl and slash now.    Just they say it isn't the same band because now we have Ron in it so give him a Chance to play paradise city.   Or it was a different band with DJ in it so give him a chance to play paridise city.  And let's make sure it's the last song every night.  Because why would we want to change that up. What would we do with the pyro!!
And who cares about new music  now because it's Axl and slash. Just be happy that it's Axl and slash
Did you know that these cover songs are actually more recognizable as guns n roses songs now   It doesn't matter that they are not actually gin n roses songs and written by other people   But since they play them and have recorded them. Yep now they are ours.

And jams are great because we get to see slash!!  It also gives Axl a break!   Weird he didn't need one at ac/do shows but that doesn't matter because if they do it it is ok!!!

Why would we want them to play more original music sung by duff or someone else if Axl needs a break from something    When we have jams!!!

How can anyone call themselves a fan that isn't happy with this past year!! Your not a true fan!   You have to like it take it and accept it. 

No

I am a fan. 

I want to hear guns music played by guns members

I think covers are fine when you are a band starting out with not enough of your own material to play    I want to hear guns music.   Not bob Dylan's music

Bacon

I'm pretty sure you have stated that you don't like the covers over 200 times now.


I think everybody gets it.

Do you guys even think of KOHD as a Dylan song anymore?

I really don't.  And I'm a lifelong Dylan fan.

Hahahaha.  I am not one to let something go

Yes I do. 

I knew it was his song when I was 10 years old and I still refer to it as his now

I hate the way guns covers it as well.   Really hate the song

It reminds me of that kiss song.  Rock in roll all night and party every day.

Where it's more of just a repeating sentence    Over and over and over again      Change the fucking thing up!!!!

I often forget it's a Dylan song really. To me, GNR own that song now- same with Live And Let Die. They're as much a part of their cannon as any other song now I think. the Seeker? Less so. But fuck it- they obviously like playing it, and it's good to have something fresh in there.

I couldn't be more excited today, having finally got tickets to the tour. I think I'd actually be a bit gutted if they changed the set much- there's so much in there I'm desperate to hear. I'm going to two dates- I expect the same (or very similar) sets both shows, and that's totally cool. If I didn't want to see the same set again, I wouldn't have booked for two shows. This is a tour- the set is going to be broadly the same, and that's actually what people want at the moment I think- a chance to see this set, played by the band.

Let's have this argument if they're still doing the exact same set in five years, on another world tour.

Yeah why would anyone want the band to play more Guns N Roses music.   That's crazy

Huh? No one is saying that are they?

In a way you are.  You said you don't want them to change up the set list.

The last concert they played, they performed 5 cover songs!   5!  Plus 2 jams, with covers in them!!!!     That's crazy. 

I don't care if they are on albums or what, they are not guns songs

One thing I'll add, don't confuse my acceptance of the set list not switching up with being 'happy' about it.  Do I wish they'd change it up?  As a hardcore GNR fan OF COURSE I would love it.  I'd love to go to a show and be equally surprised to hear Shadow of Your Love than I would hearing Welcome to the Jungle because the set list is so eclectic!  But for now I am not going to complain because of what we have.  We have Axl, Slash and Duff performing together and they sound pretty damn good.    As some one who went to bed some nights since 1995 dreaming about this reunion I can't find it in me to complain about this..... yet  : ok:

Exactly right.

You're going to love the show, man.  It was awesome.

Why is everyone whining SO fucking MUCH about the set-list and the amount of covers? They're not playing for the internet lurkers at home, who are streaming crappy Facebook streams.

Just enjoy the show you ARE going to and stop watching the internet streams. You didn't PAY for anything other than the show you're ATTENDING. You only paid for that ONE show you're attending. Not all the other ones.

It's becoming ridiculously annoying, all the whining about the shows. Back in '90 fucking 2 you had no idea what songs they were playing in the next city, and you didn't care. You came for one show, and that ONE show delivered, just like these current ones are delivering. Because about 99% of the attendees don't watch the live streams so they ARE surprised by the set-list and all the songs.

Just get over it and enjoy it. Or go whine in your diary. Just not OVER and OVER again on this forum. I am fed up with reading all the bitching and moaning about the set-list not catering to your personal preferences. 99% of the attendees are satisfied, so fucking deal with it.

I have no idea what that rant is about but the show was just great. It just really was amazing.

People are entitled to say what they'd  like to hear that's what a forum is for ,I'd like them to play One in a million and Get in the ring but I know unless hell freezes over they won't play them and I'd like to see Izzy back in the band but that's also  unlikely but hell we can all dare to dream,Punk.

I totally agree with you!

Having witnessed both tours, I find it difficult to draw many similarities, other than the "core 3" being onstage together. The UYI tours were much more spontaneous and natural. We had new(er) songs, Axl was a mad-man onstage, Slash and Duff always seemed pretty wasted throughout, and we had Izzy (at least in the beginning). With NITL, you know exactly what you are going to get with each and every show. The biggest surprises, thus far, have been Steven Adler making a few cameos and a cover of 'Black Hole Sun'. Both of which were cool, but still pretty cookie-cutter, nonetheless.   

Yeah, I definitely miss the unpredictability of the old days. It's funny because it used to be Axl that everyone was expecting to throw a curveball, but now he's arguably the most predictable. Now, Slash and Myles was pretty safe, but they did constantly change their setlist. I suppose it's different what Slash will do for his improvised solo, as well ad the CD songs where he clearly improvises. But on the CD songs, I wish he would actually work out a structure for his solos instead of winging it.

And something that has become unfortunately predictable; Axl rushing slower songs like Sorry, Black Hole Sun, and even Coma. IDK why he seems to do this every time on those songs and doesn't correct it.

I was just talking about the aesthetics of the pics. You know, indeed the band members and how it all looks like the GnR I loved back then.

I am also pretty sure that way back then the setlists were also basically the same every night. But you couldn't go on the internet each night and simply had to wait until hey played your city.

But yeah, it sucks that Duff isn't falling off the stage anymore, and Slash actually remembers how to play his solo's. Was way more fun then, I wish Axl would still rant about petty stuff at age 55. I too wish that a bunch of guys in their 50's would still behave like 20 year olds. Would make me feel so much cooler  :hihi:

haha! I do wish Axl would have a rant about fucking smartphones though, I'll be honest. And before anyone says it- no I don't watch periscopes!

Guys, the memory cheats.

I love the UYI tour.  But take out the first leg of that tour in starting in May 1991.  Hell even just take out the first month or so of shows on that summer '91 leg.  The "unpredictibility" is really not all that present as soon as July 1991. 

Now, there are 3 major legs to that tour.  1991 with Izzy.  Late 1991 to early 1993 with the extended 12 piece band, and the Skin 'N Bones acoustic leg.  Each leg had it own structure, but within that leg, you didn't exactly have to be Nostradaums to know what was going to be played.  You could sit down before the show and sketch out the basic setlist and come with a song or two of nailing it.

In other words, not much different than the NITL tour.

Now, most people's problem with the neverending CD tour was that that tour went entire legs and sometimes years in between legs, yet never really changed much.

If whenever they gear this back up, in 2020 or whatever, if it's basically the same show as the NITL tour, then I think you have a beef.

But not before.

I'd argue that the Gilby Clake era 1991 Stadium run had less flexibility in the setlist that the NITL tour. Of course, this wasn't an issue whatsoever, as people went to see the shows near them and didn't spend time analyzing and comparing shows on the internet.
People seem to forget that you'd go and see a band back then and wouldn't have a clue what the band had played the night before, or at any date previously on the tour.

Having now seen this tour- I'm absolutely convinced that criticizing it is crazy. Sitting at home watching crappy videos and looking at setlists leads to a level of fatigue and encourages needless complaining. Get in that pit, watch this band live- it's something else. It's about the moment and the experience. That's what is making this tour.

Hey DX you know whats going to come next then the Acoustic version of "NITL" tour does that get your engine revving now lol.

In the early 90s the setllists were pretty much the same sure

But

It was all fairly newer music played to an audience that never had the chance to hear certain songs

30 years later they are play the same songs.  Ugh

Freshen it up already

Hey, I loved that Skin N' Bones leg.

I would not that want to be the only time I saw them, as I did not feel it painted a real picture of who they were as a band at that time.  But the show itself was solid.

But short.  It's so obvious Axl is tired of being there by that point.

The only solution to that would've been to starting touring at a later point, after writing new material. Now it seems they're doing it the other way around, eager to get on the road as a reunited band first, then record new material.

With brand new music, I would think Slash and Duff want a hand in crafting it before presenting it live. Actually, I'm sure Axl wants it that way as well. He always wanted to include new members of the line-up in the recording process whenever they came along. Slash and Duff are playing CD-songs, but they were already released so that is sort of a different story.

Freshen it up with, say, songs from Chinese Democracy that weren't around 30 years ago, and new cover versions such as The Seeker and Black Hole Sun that they weren't playing then? No?

This band has been playing CD songs since the early 2000s   It isn't even close to fresh any more
We have also heard 4 different guitar players takes on these songs.   So the argument that we get to hear slashes take on these songs doesn't hold any water

Covers are an easy way out for playing music

I havnt heard or seen anything that makes me think there is any interest in this band releasing new music   In fact I get the complete opposite feeling

Axl himself saying they're planning on it. Richard saying they're planning on it.

What else, besides leaks do you require to make you think there is interest?

Talk is cheap. 

Pictures of them in a studio.   An actual singe release

In one way or another we have heard they have been writing or want write music or have a ton of stuff to release  for the past 10 years

Why would one more band member saying this mean anything?

The proof is in the pudding and this pudding says we will not get any sort of music from this band any time soon. Probably never again

I'd say Axl is a key player here, not just "one more band member".




Personally, I think of it as a clean slate once Slash and Duff were back in the mix. Whatever happened before that ? new-music-wise, doesn't count that much. I can agree things didn't look bright up until 2016, it was pretty much quiet.

I think Axl has more of an incentive to release something new with original players back in the band. I think his POV has changed over the years, and I get the feeling he is happier now in GN'R than 3-4 years ago. I know he said he liked the previous line-up of the band, but I'm not so sure he felt inspired to write music with that particular group of people.

It's all speculation on my part of course, but I choose to be optimistic. There were nay-sayers all over up until 2008 as well, but he delivered at last.

Right now, I choose to enjoy the current tour. Alright, there are a few covers in the set (although I don't even mind)... but Slash and Duff are fuckin' back! Are people so easily jaded that only a mere year later it's not enough anymore? There was an ongoing outcry for a reunited GN'R for years and years, and when it finally happens people are instantly bored because they aren't playing exactly the songs they want to hear... jeez.

You choose to be negative to most things GN'R these days, although you call it "higher standards". I suspect you are one to never be pleased, I'm not so sure you'll focus on the positive if they completely changed the set, if they released new music... There will always be something to point a finger at, huh?

This isn't a reunited gnr though.  It's just a different versions of the band

There may have been naysayers before 2008. But at least we knew they had produced music. At least we got to hear new music at shows

I have seen nothing that shows me they want to release new music.  What I do see them doing is what they are doing.  Playing a bunch of old musi and covers

It's somewhat reunited wouldn't you say. Not just "another line-up" imo, we have three of the five originals in there.




Back to my original point, if we want to hear new music from this line-up, the tour should have started later in order for them to write the music first.

I'm optimistic that'll happen once they go on a break from this tour.

You flat out said this was a reunited gnr

It isn't

It's an other version of the band featuring Slash and duff

Gnr is not reunited

Your point about the tour starting a year later makes my point even more for me

There is zero intention of writing new music.  There biggest priority is touring and makin tons of money
Like you said if they actually wanted to write new music they would of held the tour off
Or wrote something before they announced the tour
Or wrote something durring one of the many breaks of this tour

Yeah, I said it's a reunited GN'R. You know what I was talking about.

It is a semi reunited GN'R, better now?


This tour is all about the three of them getting back together. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

Business-wise it makes a lot of sense doing it the way they are. They are drawing stadiums around the world based on the three of them together again.

Then, save the new music card for the next round. Maybe they're able to do it all again then.

My memory isn't cheating anything, it just hasn't adopted an apologist attitude.

Of course we saw similar set lists throughout the 2.5 year UYI tour(s). At the time, they only had 3 full albums (not that the number of albums has grown all that much in 2.5 decades). However, during the UYI era, 2 of the 3 albums were new material, or no more than 2 years old by the time that tour ended. The UYI shows had a spontaneous feel and an unpredictability about them, and we would at least get, what are now considered, deep cuts, like 'Right Next Door", "Perfect Crime", and even on the rare occasion, "Locomotive" and "Breakdown".

With NITL, we get very few deep cuts, or any type of variance at all for that matter. It's almost as if they are punching a clock, and on top of that, we get the same repetitive covers over and over. Hell, has Duff even been able to play "You Can't Put Your Arms" in full? Why not play that entire cover and cut 1 of the other 4 or so covers that they play nightly? And where in the hell is Izzy? And why is Adler, the actual drummer on AFD, only allowed to play 1 or 2 songs, while the band's 5th or 6th drummer (I lost count) plays the rest? If Axl truly does have 2 albums or so of unreleased material, why can't they rehearse 1 or 2 of the most top shelf songs and play those on occasion?

Again, I've witnessed both tours, and assuming you have done the same - and are willing to take off the rose tinted glasses - I think you'd be hard pressed to call the 2 tours "similar". I understand that they aren't in their 20s anymore, but that shouldn't be an excuse for their unwillingness to provide some variety. At bare minimum, get Izzy and Steven involved with more appearances. 

Well, the biggest change I see is that the NITL is leaps and bounds more professional and competent an operation than any leg of the UYI tour.

No drama, no bullshit, no late starts, no onstage rants, no storms offs, no riots.  I will always prefer to listen to my UYI boots over my NITL boots.  But in terms of a headache free concert experience, it's NITL, and it's not close.

Personally, yes, I would rather a few more UYI cuts in place of some AFD ones.  But we know Axl has mixed feelings about those albums much past the singles, and he's the boss.  So I could rant and rave and stomp my feet that I think it's bullshit that we can't get 'Dead Horse' instead of 'My Michelle', but where is that getting me, really?

As to your last point, the sheer numbers in terms of both attendance and revenue offer proof positive that very few fucks are given about Izzy or Steven's exclusion.  Now, I know you don't want to hear that, but I am looking at things more coldly and logically than you, who tends to view things more emotionally.

The "full original lineup" would include Izzy buy not Steven. What you are referring to as the original lineup is actually the AFD or classic lineup.

GNR is running like a well- oiled machine, it makes no sense business wise to factor in a wild card- read: "unpredictable" and hope for the best.

Steven's recent press statements prove that he hasn't changed much as far as running his mouth about the band. :no:

 His whining about the number of songs he is allowed to play, and refusing to acknowledge that he was fired due to his own choices is simply more of the "poor me" blame game he has been playing for over 20 years.

It is Izzy's choice that he is not participating- most of his supporters won't admit that simple fact.

The absence of both Izzy and Steven hasn't impacted ticket sales to a discernable degree, that isn't debatable, when Steven was fired it was a non-event, I don't recall anybody being unduly alarmed or upset then.

 Izzy cashed in his chips when he quit, but now unrealistically expects everything to be magically restored, including his "equal" or partnership status and pay grade.

The entire world has changed since the UYI tour, when new songs were premiered technology hadn't reached the point that it has today, anything new played now would be uploaded and shared worldwide within minutes, which isn't always the ideal way for fans to be introduced to new material, first impressions do matter.

The setlist has already undergone several changes and even surprises, with Sorry and Catcher being added, Angus' appearances in Australia and nobody was expecting Black Hole Sun to be added. The NITL tour is only a little over a year old and is playing to new areas not toured last year, many people in EU haven't seen this show yet.

For years, all that was whined about was Slash not being there, now that he is there, along with Duff fans have moved the goalposts and are finding other things to be unhappy about IE: Steven, Izzy, a new album, the setlist etc. 

I believe some will always find things to complain about no matter what GNR does.

I don't understand why people keep hanging around on these forums, go to the concerts or even keep being a 'fan' of a band that does nothing the way THEY want it to. I mean, seriously. I love GnR for their music, and if they come to my country I go to their concert. If, for whatever reason, I start disliking what they do as a band, or if I am not interested in them anymore, I simply move on to other acts that cater to my needs. I am not going to whine ALL the time about how a band that I liked the music of ages ago does not do what I want.

Some of you simply don't like GnR anymore, but haven't really grasped it yet. Yeah, you liked the old band etc. But how they operate now is something you don't like. I don't see anything new, and I don't expect anything different. That's why I like the band and am a 'fan' for.

Just move on, but stop pissing on the parade of the people who are actually enjoying it. Now, some of you will say "Well, I am entitled to my opinion on this band'. Fuck yeah, you are. Just as I am, and my opinion is that this band has too many fans who think they bought a stake in GnR when buying an album or a concert ticket. You didn't. You already got what you paid for, and you're also not part of their management. So, to put it simply: find a band that releases new music when you want it to, and plays the set lists you want them to play. Life can be so simple.

Well, of course not.  That's ridiculous.

But it's a "yeah, wouldn't it be nice" kind of deal.  That's what I'm saying.  I don't think anyone is against it.  But I think it's a fallacy to be able to see the majority of fans ultimately shrug their shoulders about it, and then claim it's a front burner issue, fanbase wide.

I think it only really matters if you are one of those people that really wax poetic about the original line-up like it was a downright religious experience.  I've just never been much of a "this band changed my life" type guy.  I outright laugh at "I would not be here if not for the music of <insert band here>".

It's rock music, man.  Rock music we all obviously dig.  But it ain't spiritual enlightenment at work here.

I never believed that.  Until now.

Never believed it because I thought it was the phony argument of alltime to say people were supposed to be super pumped about DJ Ashba.  Or not putting albums out.  Those aren't champagne cork popping developments.

But I'd have bet cash money, and lost, people could find ways to be down on the return of Slash.

So you're saying there's no space in-between the two?  It's either "dude gimme rock music" or it's "oh dear god I worship this!"?

Look, I'm not gonna claim the bloody planet would be a lesser place if Guns N Roses had never existed.  But I can say that music does impact people's lives beyond a simple "hey, dude, it's rock music, man!".  It is personal to a lot of people.  I don't bow before it, but when Appetite for Destruction was released, it did change culture in a musical sense.  It wasn't just "oh cool, another bangin' rock album man!"

Along with that, the lineup of 5 guys that created it was forever cemented.  Everything that happened after 1987 with Guns N Roses was always the result of what Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy accomplished.  Regardless of the ensuing albums, the various lineups, the breakups, partial reunions, etc, nothing changes what the original 5 members burned into our musical consciousness.

So you prefer different lineups or different members.  So what.  You're entitled to that.  But it's downright bizarre and it just baffles me that there are actually people who can't understand fans having a love affair with ALL the guys who started it all!

It's not a matter of "finding something to bitch about" regarding Slash's return (I for one was in ecstatic disbelief when Axl and Slash shared the stage again).  It's merely a basic desire of seeing ALL of the original members back together on the stage again, regardless of how likely it is or what the precise reasons are that Steven and Izzy haven't been around more.

No, I'm not trying to sell my soul to Hell's Overlord over this, but seeing Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy together on the same stage again would mean a hell of a lot more than mere "rock music" to a lot of us out there.

Why do you think they offered Izzy less money?  I can't figure that out.

I could see if they were going to argue that he wouldn't do press or carry his weight preshing the flesh, but none of them do that.

So why would he be paid less than Slash and Duff, both of who I assume makes less than Axl?

Izzy said "they didn't want to share the loot equally".  I'd be interested in learning who "they" is.  Did Slash and Duff have something to say about Izzy's pay?  Does "they" refer to Axl and GNR management?

Either way, if Izzy were willing to participate in an entire tour (and despite claims to the contrary, he has NOT publicly stated that he wouldn't tour) then I can't see why he wouldn't receive equal pay to at least Slash and Duff, who are still technically hired hands since Axl owns the GNR name.  This business of Izzy possibly "flaking" out is unlikely -- once he signs a contract he certainly understands that he has to appear on the signed dates.  He made all his dates with GNR before he quit.

Axl's comments on Izzy in the 7/29/16 interview in Orlando were extremely (and perhaps purposefully) vague, although Axl's words provoked Izzy's response in saying "they" didn't want to split the loot.  We've not been given anything further so it remains it a mystery.

Yep

Its like all things with this bands.  Fans debate what fans think and what fans opinions are and not what the actual facts are.

Why????

Because this band tells us nothing!!!!!!!!

This band expects you to be a fan.   Love the music, love the band members....

What happened to Chris P?

Why is Mellissa in this band?

Why did Steven only play a few shows?

Why isn't Izzy around?

Are Slash and Duff band members?  Or just under a contract to tour with Axls band?

Did Slash and Duff and Axl recommit to a business relationship?

Why is there no interviews from this band?

Why did Slash and Duff all of a sudden become so silient on social media?

Are we going to get an official concert video of the latest tour?  Or a live album?  If not why not?  And why has there been so little official live concert video from this band?

Why does this band play so many cover songs live?

If Axl said there was three albums worth of CD era songs ready to be released when can we see it?  If it is not going to be released why?

Are there serious plans of releasing new original music written by Axl, Duff and Slash?  If not why?

Since the band is racking in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from this never ending tour.  What is in it for the fans, other than the tour???

What are Axls future plans with Ac/Dc.  As a fan of Guns n Roses should I expect Axl to release an album with ac/dc before guns?

Why when you play back to back dates in a city do you not change up the setlist?

When you come back to north America and play markets very close if not exactly the same as you just played, are you going to be changing up the setlist at all??

This band has been around since the 80s and yet only has 4 original albums of material released.  Any plans on releasing any new material?


Just some of the questions that should and will never be answered

it sure is fun as a fan to debate these though, as with this band, there is no right or wrong answers.  Just fan opinion

To be honest, I see little evidence that the guys are interested in anything other than making a shit ton of loot.

Because nothing else suggets this is any more than a business relationship.  I think that was obvious from the very second they never did an interview or any serious press of any kind.  Nothing about how great it was to be back.  Nothing about thigns we could look for in the future.

It was just a list of tourdates and ticket prices.  That seems to be all that matters.

So as a fan.

What is in it for us to stay a vested fan?

I never changing tour supporting 4 original albums....    and....

They are a legacy act at this point.  This is what legacy acts do.  They charge a ton of money and play the hits people want to hear.

If anything, it's a miracle they play even one CD song.  That's just Axl being stubborn.  Few in the crowd care, and most would gladly swap out those 4 songs for UYI songs.  A true in it for the money type operation would be AFD in near entirety and anything else that had a MTV video.

This band hasn't been a viable, creative entity in 17 years.  I don't believe one new thing has been written in that time.  And I don't think anything has been worked on in at least 10 years.  Final touch-up n the CD stuff in early 2007.  That's probably your last bit of recording. 

So where is this album supposed to be coming from?  Magic?

I am with you with.  I don't think anything has been written by Axl in a very very very long time.  I am sure members of this touring band and previous members have written things, tried to write etc..  They all seemed very genuine when asked about these things.   I am not sure Axls motives are that of producing original music for gnr though.  And havnt been in a very long time.

Legacy acts usually rely on a lot more content than this group.  The lack of original material this group has blows my mind.  People call some songs hits, but they never where.  They where just on a hit album. 

Where would a new album come from at this point.   We will never get one.

I would almost settle for a great interview, something we don't get.

I would settle for a honest to god 2hr show, where the band just plays its own music.  Own jams....

I would settle for when this band plays back to back nights in a town they change up the setlist.

I would settle for when this band returns to a country they just toured and play cities they just played that they totally change up the show. 

I would settle for a live blue ray of this band

I would settle for this band to release previous footage that was recorded during the UYI tour. 

I kind of alluded to this issue during the discussions about the lineup.  Fans are basically taking whatever they can get at this point.  Just seeing Axl and Slash take the stage together was the absolute impossible, yet it happened, so fans are willing to pay big bucks to see that alone.  Regardless of whether or not it's the full original lineup, and regardless of any new music on the horizon.

I am one of those people... and I have no issues with spending the big money on it..

It's not even I am taking it because it appears to be all I can get at this point...

I am thrilled about the whole thing

I'd love to go buy a new Guns N Roses album tomorrow, but at no point since Chinese Democracy was released did I ever think that was close to happening... so why not just be stoked that they are literally the biggest act in rock n roll right now. Plus the shows are phenomenal....

And the mood is so much better.

At the shows, around here, etc.  It's just a much happier time.

That has value to me.

Yeah I guess I am just not there

There is nothing in it for me to spend big money to see this show again. 

As a fan there really insnt anything to keep me vested

What was there for you in 2011-2014?

you picked your years carefully haha

2010 was the last real great year prior to last to be a guns fan.

I saw them in Vegas a few years later and the writing was really on the wall then.  Especially looking back

But

2010 was a real fun year.

Guns had a great Canadian tour leg.  I seen 2 of my fav shows of all time with them during this and that includes this last tour I went to

The shows from 2010 are solid.

As are the 4 far east shows in December 2009.  12/19/09 might be that era of the band's best show, overall.

Nah, most people's problem with the CD tours was the lineup - more specifically who wasn't in it.  That's the difference between playing theatres and arenas and playing stadiums.  After that the late or cancelled shows.  After that the often indifferent quality of the shows.  After that the seemingly-constant changes in the lineup.  The actual setlist probably comes some way the list.

Oh, to the general public, sure.  That was a scab band, GNR in name only.

But I meant even among we diehards that made our peace with the revolving door of randos, we were growing tired of the monotony.

DJ had a little army of fans for himself that he brought over   And was a nice little self promoter that would always say something positive of the band.   That grew on me

Every local concert I went to during this time period you always heard and got. This isn't the real gnr it's just Axls band.   More so locally than in Vegas

You also got Axls voice.  That really was horrible for a lot of these shows

Then you also got.  The majority of the public was pretty indifferent to hexes CD era songs and still are.   Is there a huge means out there to hear TIL nightly?   No matter how many times you play it live isn't going to make it a good son

I think every CD song could be dropped from the setlist to bascially no reaction.

Perhaps, but I can understand from Axl's perspective why he wouldn't want to drop them completely.  Yeah, you can say he's being stubborn, but stubborn how?  Is he obstinate because he doesn't want to forget about a project that he's put most of the last 20 years of his life into?  Right or wrong, that's how he sees it.

Don't misunderstand me, I was never a huge fan of Chinese Democracy; I only liked maybe 2-3 songs.  But I can see it from Axl's standpoint in terms of what he's sacrificed.  It isn't the same with Slash and Duff.  They certainly invested themselves into Velvet Revolver, Loaded, Snakepit, etc, but not nearly to the extent that Axl did with Chinese Democracy.  That project and everything that has surrounded it have veritably consumed his life.

I must be honest, it's kind of interesting and different to watch Duff and especially Slash perform Chinese Democracy songs live.  Not only is a break from the normal songs that I've heard for 30 years, it also gives us the only "what if" insight we'll ever have into what could have been if only had the world's greatest frontman and the world's greatest guitarist been able to coexist during all those years.

I like the versions of 'Chinese Democracy' and 'Better' the current band does.

But 'This I Love'...I'm sorry, that's Andrew Lloyd Webber.  And I don't even totally hate that style of music.  But the song has always been a bit cringeworthy to me.  Then, now, forever.

Very suprised they do that one.  Because that song, to me, is Axl left to his own devices without Slash or Duff in the mix.  I always imagined when they finally heard the album, they rolled their eyes at that one.  Surprised to see it embraced like this.

Also think that's the reaction they would have had to a tune like 'Madagascar', which I doubt we'll ever hear again.

People here seem to think this tour is going over to glowing reviews   They just ignore negative or critical reviews and overly point to ticket sales

Ticket sales are not being sold via word of mouth. They are being sold via a great marketing campaign

I would be money that ticket sales don't hold up in the future if things don't change for other legs of this tour

Or I guess people are just that messed up

I really didn't think people would just show up to hear Axl and slash do the same schtick

Good marketing campaign? Sorry?! Are we talking about the same band??!

The people buying this many tickets every stop aren't coming from these boards. They don't know the schtick (as you put it)... they are probably seeing them for either the first time ever, first time since the 90's (because large numbers of people ignored Axl and friends, especially post VMA), or they are seeing this show after seeing one of the CD era lineups. Especially in the US where to be honest people aren't traveling to multiple cities to see a show. I've seen several bands multiple times, over the course of a few years and they are all similar shows.

We all get that you hate the covers and want new music. We all want new music but considering we are on track to get a new album every 15 years or so it's really not worth beating your head against the wall on that one. As far as the covers, they have been doing that in all incarnations of this band since the mid 80's (why 30 years later would it stop now?)

As far as the argument that they should have gone outside the box at the Apollo think about it. Since 2000 they have been broadcast about 4 times in the US... lets recap: VMA 2002: F'ing disaster publicly, Golden Gods: took forever to work out technical issues then when they went on their most popular song got totally fucked up by Ashba and an out of tune guitar, London O2 show: practically sent people into epileptic fits with the crazy camera changes, plus sounded horrible, Vegas: awful vocal performance and similar camera direction... I'll give an honorable mention to the Bridge School Benefit, I get it Axl was under the weather, but the still got skewered... That's why keeping with the formula and knocking the Sirius show out of the park was important.

Good post. I think what we sometimes miss here is that 95 per cent of the people at the concerts, even though they may be decked head to toe in new GNR merchandise, don't really give a fuck about the band. They're ticking a 'classic rock' (yes, sadly that is how they're seen now) act off a list. In a few months time they'll be drenched in the shirts of whoever is touring next. It's sad but true. Not many people actually give a fuck about the band. They're a 'hits on drivetime rock radio' act. I mean, holy shit, people at the shows I was at didn't really know something like Coma, let alone CD tracks. This tour caters for those people. Problem is of course, that those people will move on. They won;t fork out next time.

Reviews were posted here after just about every show last summer.  There wasn't a bad on in the bunch, and several of them were glowing.

Now, if you'd like, I could call up any number of reviews from 1991-92 shows when the band was "dangerous" and "interesting", but the reviews shit all over the show. 

Shall we do that?

SPOT.  THE FUCK.  ON.

I was still hearing taunts about the 2002 MTV disaster as recently as last year when NITL tickets went on sale.  Because, to a lot of people, that's the last they saw on Guns N' Roses.

People still want to try and gloss over this, especially at this board, but when it came to the misadventure that was 'Chinese Democracy' : NO ONE...FUCKING...CARED.

No one outside of dyed in the wall Axl lifers care two shits about that whole era.  They don't even consider it Guns N' Roses.  They consider it Axl the immature child playing with a bunch of scabs because he alienated the band they all loved.  It astounds me that people would EVER show that DVD from 2012 Vegas to anyone.  It's god damn horrendous.

This concert was basically a way to tell anyone still one the fence it was Guns N' Roses again.  This was not the show to say,"'hey...let's try 'The Garden' for the first time in 24 years."

Correct.

Stadiums were, in my opinion, a one time shot.  You had the perfect storm of an the improbable reunion, and dark aspect that most people didn't want to acknowledge, that this might be the only time this ever happened.

Now, it seems to have went well.  I can't see them doing statiums again though.  As was said above, to the vast majority, they have now seen GNR and can cross it off their list.  So you aren't going to get 50,000 per city again.

I do, however, think they can do arenas again in say, 2021, even with nothing new.  There are still enough GNR fans for that.  And, to be honest, I think we might as well start getting comfy with that whole idea.  Because I find that a hell of a lot more probable than I do them whipping up some new album out of whole cloth and touring behind that.

Shit, they could tour in 2021 as a 'UYI Aniiversary Tour' and just dig up a bunch of songs they haven't played since that tour.  Might want to prepare for that too.

Yeah, they can still do arenas. Always will be able to I think- especially if Slash stays on board. I think your suggestions are highly likely. As I mentioned above, that's not ideal from my point of view, but the most likely. The big cat among the pigeons would be if Slash and/or Duff walks. Looking at the way the touring is running until the end of the year, I think that's going to push them to the limit really. Neither Slash or Duff are known for sticking with one project for long, and (money aside) will they want to run with this for much longer? By the end of the year I think playing (largely) the same songs show after show will start to become less fun for them.

On a side note- I still really enjoy that Vegas DVD! I did show it to my girlfriend though, who was utterly bemused by what on earth it was she was watching though!

Seriously not complaining they've got something  for everyone .  But  how about  something a little different for this leg.  And on a side note  patience at the apollo was the best thing I've heard or seen..  ✌️❤️   Replace seeker with slither  maybe  IRS. Bad obsession and play more off Lies. 

Funny-a friend of mine called this morning-she's 36 and asked me to look into Guns n Roses tickets here in Cleveland-she wants to go-she said she's pretty sure Axl Rose is singing, and it does not matter who else is playing, as long as it's him. I remember going to see Guns in 2011-after I got back, a friend asked if Slash had played-if he was back in the band. These are 2 different girls that worked in a sports bar that I go to-it's interesting to hear what kind of news filters to very casual fans. Both surprised me, to say the least.

I'm constantly surprised by things like this. One major thing I was surprised by is that many people I spoke to around the concerts actually had no idea that GNR had been playing all these years! As I said above though, the majority of the people going to see this tour don't really give a fuck about GNR as a band. It's just a 'ticking the box' thing. Hell, the amount of GNR shirts they sell at high-street fashion stores at the moment, a lot of people wearing their fucking shirt don't even know who they are!

I remember going to see the GNR tour in 2010, making passing conversation with a girl in a GNR shirt while I was having a drink in the city beforehand, who said she had no idea they were playing that night in the city, let alone that they were still gong! She basically told me she wasn;t a fan at all but was wearing the shirt as it was 'fashion'.

THAT'S what we're dealing with!!!!