Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Trailer: https://globoplay.globo.com/v/5279682/

What was aired (with Beta, Vanessa and Fernando): https://globoplay.globo.com/v/5282110/

15 minutes with Axl and Duff: http://g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2016/09/veja-entrevista-completa-com-axl-rose-e-duff-mckagan-do-guns-n-roses.html

Yes ! just saw. that trailer too !
So,they did an interview for a brazilian station,apparently to promote the south american tour.

I was about to post this!! Nice one Team Brazil!!  : ok: 
Hell of a promotion for the Brazilian tour, this TV show airs on the main South American TV channel, huge audience!!

Nice!  Is this show fluff or will they ask good questions?

Super fluff. It will be half-assed questions like "what do you like in Brazil?" or "how do you feel now being old?".

Of course, it will be heavily edited and it won't say much, but I do hope they make Axl speak about how they reunited. At least, this. But don't expect much, this is worse than an interview with Fox News.

Aww bummer, got excited when i saw the title.

Stupid questions i'm sure...I dare to say general public have no idea they are reuniting after 23 years...
Eddie Trunk would make the questions we wanna have some answers!

Yeah can't see it being an in depth interview,would be cool if Slash was there also ,the media silence from the band is very strange to say the least a press conference to launch the tour would have addressed a lot of the fan's queries as to if,why and why not,although this interview is a positive step and may provide a few answers.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Also expect a few wrong infos about the band. Globo is like Fox in America.
First time I will watch this show in like 10 years probably..anyway, will be cool to see them together doing an interview as a band. I can't even remember Axl doing it with one of the guys in the nineties. He used to do it by himself.

It's definitely not going to be very in-depth.  Probably just some questions about the tour and how it has been going.

Not sure if you're Brazilian, but I def not going to watch the show. I'll just wait for the video to pop up online - globo videos take only some minutes to show up online. And Im sure it will be on YouTube and stuff like that soon after.

No need to stay awake until 11PM to watch this. I bet it will be a 2 minute interview and the questions will be:
1 - What do you think of brazilian music?
2 - What do you think of brazilian fans?
3 - What you have to say for the brazilian fans that will attend you concert?

Why are people surprised at this point that the band doesn't want to do any in-depth interviews? The media certainly hasn't helped the band much over the years, and so much of what was said in the press either came back to haunt them, or got twisted.

So yes, this will be a light fluff piece for Brazilian fans - and I don't really have an issue with that. Just don't lose sleep staying up to watch it.

You mean Axl isn't going to give a word by word account about his first time seeing Slash?

;D

At this point, I personally have diminishing interest in the "how". They are back together and kicking ass. That's what matters most in the end.

Ali

Same, who really cares? Obviously they were able to put aside differences, obviously they're making a ton of money (although everyone says that's not important), obviously they're having fun, and obviously the shows kick ass !!

Good to know. Thanks.
I don't watch any of their stuff, so I don't even know what kind of stuff they put on.
You're saving me from suffering.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/oh8fnq.jpg)

I would of welcomed any sorta tv appearance durring there us leg of this ture. Wouldn't really matter the type

Lucky Brazil

And lucky Europe durring acdc's leg and some Axl interviews

Hope now that the band is out of the USA we see more of this 

I?m thinking positive. I think we will hear something new by them.
They didn?t do any TV interviews until now

Always great to hear from them, even if it's not "in-depth".

Oh god.. that pretty much sums up what we're gonna see.

Rough translation:

Brazilian Nanny

Behind the scenes of the interview with Guns N' Roses leader Axl Rose for tomorrow's "Fantastico", the fellow [journalist] Alvaro Pereira Jr heard more Portuguese than English. It's because the 54 year old rockstar told that his life now is "totally" controlled by a Brazilian... family, from Santos (SP state).

The leader of the group, Ms. Beta, 58, is Axl's secretary and "nany" for 26 years. "This Brazilian family controls my life, [they] whip me, obligue me to do things", the singer joked.

So when exactly can we see this?

I believe the program itself starts at 9pm local time, but who knows when they'll air the actual interview segment.

It'll be 9pm Brasilia time in about two hours.



/jarmo

Think I'll get some sleep then and watch it tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing what they've to say and what sort of chemistry there is between them after all these years. Would be cool to see Slash there too but that's a whole other interview really.

Just watched
Pretty cool short interview with Beta, Fernando, Vanessa and Axl / Duff

The news is: AXL CALLED SLASH TO PLAY TOGETHER AGAIN

Axl told that Steven is not 100% because of his back surgery and they could not count with Izzy because if they decide to do anything, they don?t know if Izzy will be there haha

Wow..it was a nice interview!! Talked even about Izzy!!

Axl said he called Slash back in 14!

Highlights:

Axl authorized team Brazil to start negotiations with Duff and Slash in 2014 for the Coachela show! Coachela organizer was the spark for the reunion.
Axl called Slash in 2014.
Axl and Slash first met in person in October 2015 in Axls house!! Took so long because Slash was on tour!
Reporter asked about Izzy and Steven....Axl said Steven cant play much because undergone surgery recently!! And said Izzy is unpredictable...
Axl said they met, went straight to rehearsals and got to work.

Here?s the whole thing:

http://g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2016/09/veja-entrevista-completa-com-axl-rose-e-duff-mckagan-do-guns-n-roses.html

THEY?RE DOING A RECORD!!

Axl presented material do Duff and Slash!! I'm really susprised with this interview..

I told you that we will hear something new in this interview  ;D

From what Axl said...we now can confirm that Izzy was definitely contacted but he just does what he does....thats a big shut up for the cry babies who kept whining about Izzy not being part of this!

Glad you guys hedged on what we would get from this interview because now I'm pleasantly surprised!  

If I could be a fly in the room when Axl had Slash over for dinner!  But its kind of funny, as Axl really downplays the whole thing.  Definitely seems to be a bigger deal for us than him!  

But the right question would be, given the tour name, Not In This Lifetime, which Axl had stated several years ago, what changed in his mind and his heart to turn the page?

Interesting Duff saying they wanted to make the Chinese songs as if it was their own!

Anyone got this on YouTube? I can get th video to play on that site.

Damn that was really cool .... Got a lot more than I thought we would ...

Yep..the reported did his homework...he seemed prepared!! It was a nice one...usually Fantastico interviews are crappy but this one was very good!

Here's what was aired on TV, including the interview with Beta, Vanessa and Fernando:

https://globoplay.globo.com/v/5282110/

I think it is a big deal for him too. I just think he doesn't want to get into details, maybe he's not comfortable doing that. He doesn't really say much about the meeting.

https://youtu.be/4aBe_l7VbiU

I'm ok with not knowing. We don't need to know every little detail of how they patched things up.

I thought it would be a fluff piece and it wasn't. It was a good interview. I get the feeling that Axl was watching his words a bit. Duff's facial expressions was interesting when Axl talked about Izzy.  I think the interview implied new music. There was definitely a portion taken out.

Yeah, I agree.


Axl is always kinda shy in these situations and Duff being by his side is probably another reason for being coy and careful.

Didn't notice Duff's facial expressions when Izzy was discussed. Probably just an awkward and difficult topic.

Ali

It isn't like what he said about Izzy is untrue either.

Is that the whole thing? Thanks for the link.

From the description in the youtube video, it sounds like they made arrangements for Izzy to show up and he just didn't.

Wow finally an interview. And real questions!!  Real fucking cool!!

And it seems like the original plan was for Steven to show up at a lot more shows but just couldn't due to the back injury. Bummer. Hopefully if they come back and do more US shows next year.

I don't for how long these links will be available, since Globo TV usually doesn't allow its material on YouTube, but here's one with the full interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPcSN-1iArU

Seeing the whole thing now, I think it was one of the best interviews already done with the band or members of the band! I really like the questions! : ok:

Yeah, it was a really nice interview. I mean what we got from the semi-uncut 9 min interview. The thing that got aired on TV was almost as shity as we warned. :hihi:

Anyways, IMO the reporter kinda looked scared whe asked about the new album, like he felt it was a touchy subject. But their answer didnt feel akward at all... maybe he could ask a bit more about it? Lol

Seeing the full interview was awesome. Very good interview.

I have to say, if anyone watches that interview and still thinks things between Axl and Slash aren't good now they just aren't ever gonna believe it.

I was also glad he made it clear he wasn't taking a shot at Izzy since we know he and Izzy have been cool again for awhile.

ah! that was cool to watch

didn't ask about why they broke up, but that's probably part of the deal

didn't ask about Matt Sorum, since he & Axl patched things up I wonder if it's more Slash & Duff problem

glad to see there's a new album in mind, can't wait for new music with these guys

Most people said that they would give a crap interview, but clearly, times have changed!! Amazing!

Old age has a lot going for it, they are all wiser and less inclined dwell on "stuff" they are living the life that keeps them in a "good place"  :smoking:

Why would he ask about Matt? The subject was clearly the reunion, Matt was already a replacement.

The problem was never with Axl and Duff. We all made pretty clear that the TV station is as bad as Fox News. IMO, worse.

Just to take the piss, how stoned was Axl when he finally decided to call Slash after 18 years?  :hihi:

What a really cool interview, way more in depth than I thought.  As interesting as it would have been to have Eddie Trunk ask them what their favorite Kiss records are, this was way better.

Just imagine the look on Slash's face getting that call!

Probably stone cold sober, I'd imagine.  I think it was building towards this starting in 2014.

Ali

Interesting to think how Axl was trying already in 2014 and during 2015.. and then again, he was also working on studio at the same time, probably with Richard.

Talk about lost in translation.  Based on the comments here, I think youze all watched/listened to a whole different interview than me.  :hihi:

It always amazes me how Axl could be so zen as in this interview and then a few moments later be full out top gear onstage.  I've seen him do that a number of times where for whatever reason he stops the band mid-song, addresses whatever issue needs to be addressed, and then picks up the song again at the same tempo as if he never stopped.

I loved how diplomatically he tried to say that Izzy not being there is nothing more than Izzy being Izzy (which is fine with me if that truly is the reason).

I could be wrong but I think he meant to say Bon Scott's name instead of Brain Johnson when he was referring to singing some AC/DC songs off the early albums.


Thanks Jarmo for providing the video link in English on the main site page.

For what it was, I enjoyed it.

And to think that the 'Not in this lifetime' happened 2 years prior to that.

No, I think he meant the early albums with Brian Johnson. He's talked before about how hard it is to sing the Back In Black era songs.

Maybe he was high on ayahuasca.

Faldor, yes, I agree...he was talking about the first couple of Brian Johnson albums. The Bon Scott stuff has to be easier.

Axl seemed very careful to use the right words.  I am sure he meant Brian

So all those quiet months in 2015 when Slash was only posting horror film pictures on social media were leading up to this.

Slash had dinner with Axl....Veal Piccata...side of pasta marinara...cannoli's (leave the gun, take the cannoli's)...they patch everything up over dinner...decide to go make a shit ton of money...only in Gnr land....classic. ;D

I think it's obvious that Axl called Slash and not viceversa.

I think he clarified stating the 1s pt couple of Brian Johnson albums meaning Back in Black and For Those About To Rock..

Wonder why Slash wasn't there.. Someone stared this was better than the Eddie Trunk radio interview...I disagree, this was cool but we really didn't learn anything new..The ET interview show cased an Axl we haven't seen before..It was his 1st lengthy interview in decades...It was as much as an interview as a moment to hangout with Axl..

you learned why the guys got back together....Coachella and dinner!

Don't know but maybe to avoid any unnecessary drama for the band?

we learned who was the responsible for putting them back together, how everything happened, when it happened, that izzy is not there because he's is being izzy and doesn't to be there, steven really had back surgery, what was the deal with the cd songs on the setlist...for a 15 min interview in a major network channel not specialized in music, i think it's pretty good. the interviewer, alvaro pereira junior, clearly did his homework, watched axl's "interview" to that china thing. he asked great questions. i'm sure that if he had more time he could get even more from the guys.

He clearly did his homework...until he mixed up Steven with Izzy.  :confused: Honestly, we didn't really learn much at all...but were you expecting to?  This is on par (maybe a little better) than the Trunk interview from a few years ago, IMO.  We all knew that Duff was the bridge to connect Axl and Slash...and Izzy's always Izzy.   Now if Axl were to ever go on Stern...then we'd learn something!

I think this INTERVIEW was better, as an interview.  Because it was more informative, and we got more actual GnR related information.

I think the Trunk episode was more about "the moment".  This cool, candid, sort of relaxed version of Axl hanging out with friends and talking about a whole range of topics, with some, but very little, actualy GnR related discussion.  It was "cooler" because it was spontaneous, and it just evolved pretty much from nowhere (or it seemed to....how much was kabuki theater is a long standing question).

I think it's tough to compare the two things because they are SOO different.

This was a fantastic interview IMO.  The interviewer really tried to dig as deep as he could, and asked some thoughtful questions.  Also seems like the ball is rolling on the next album, which of course is awesome!

Yeah, you're probably right.  The reason I questioned it was more because when Axl went back on tour with AC/DC a month after doing this interview, Brian's name is never mentioned but Bon's name is repeatedly evoked by Axl during these shows and also the youtubes posted by the official AC/DC twitter are only ones with Bon Scott performing not any with Brian.

Guess maybe when this interview was done, Axl hadn't received the memo from Angus yet.  :-X
Axl's getting really good at separating his GNR self from his AC/DC self.  He only slipped up at one of the AC/DC shows (the second show) by dropping the F-bomb when saying goodnight to the crowd.  :hihi:

And I guess we have to wait for Slash to write another book to hear his version of that October dinner since he was noticeably absent from this interview and Duff, who was present at this interview, was noticeably absent from this alleged dinner.  ;)

Why would you call it an alleged dinner? 

Same reason I put it in italics and put the winking smilie. 
I'm not really waiting for Slash to write another book (no offense to Slash).

Well at least Slash didn't get turned away at the front door again haha

I think Slash and Axl needed this first time alone.  :-*

I just think he wasnt updated. Izzy also played with the band before.

Cause Axl doesn't get up until late afternoon so it was technically supper?  :hihi:

The t-shirt Beta is wearing...similar to the foxboro litho...does anyone know where they are/were for sale? Weren't at merch truck/booths for 20th show.

Updated the first post with the links  :peace:

btw, Fernando, what about your accent speaking portuguese?  ;D

Oh how I'd love to be a fly o the wall at Axls house with Slash there for dinner.   :beer:

He has an accent?

Is it Finnish?  :o



/jarmo

Someone told me it's British. Like..he sounds like Sean Connery speaking portuguese.

#notreally #IjustinventedhashtagsonHTGTH

Very cool to see.  Thanks for digging it up in English.

Seemed more like a band than I thought before seeing this.  I don't mean they are all blood brothers again, but it sounds like this was something they mulled over and planned for some time.

All good news here.

"And with Izzy... that's just something that I can't really.... describe. That's to say, I don't really know what to say about Izzy. It's like you could have a conversation and think it's one way and the next day it's another way. And I'm not trying to take any shots at Izzy, it's just that his thing is kind of his thing. Whatever that is, y'know."

I don't think that answer gives any more clarity about why Izzy didn't participate in any way.  Is he saying they asked and then Izzy flaked out or they didn't bother asking him at all because they expected him to flake?  I would guess the first, but I really have no idea based on this.

I remember back in '06 I believe Axl made comments at a couple of the shows about how Izzy "was supposed to be there" but was a no show.  So yeah, I imagine they asked him to come on out but for whatever reason he bowed out.  What capacity he was asked to participate (assuming he was asked) is anyone's guess.

Edit: I think that it's a good bet that a tour of this magnitude, spanning as long as it is, and the setlist requirements are likely a good deal more than Izzy wants to fuss with at this point in his life. And you also have to consider that they all know him better than any of us regarding what he'd be willing to do with Guns. He probably makes a good living off of the old Guns stuff and is perfectly content living his life and putting out music on his own dime and time. 

I guess what he said is that Izzy's Izzy.

He hasn't toured in years. He's done guest spots with GN'R in the past, but that was it. He didn't do the full tour, or the full shows.....


We don't know if he agreed or not, and then changed his mind. Or if it's simply a matter of them not wanting to fully depend on his participation to do the full tour.



/jarmo

Did Axl mention the year?  I think he called Slash in 2015, and then they got together in October 2015.  Any way you slice it, it's amazing that Axl reached out to Slash first.  It's also interesting that Axl seems to be implying that Steven may be playing even more with the band if it weren't for his back problems.  Izzy issues aside, it's great that all these original member relationships are coming full circle.


Indeed!   : ok:  Great of you to use the title of an AC/DC album in that statement too.   :hihi:



Good one.  :rofl:   :rofl:  I wonder if Slash was thinking that as he waited for Axl to open the door.   :hihi:

Yeah, I see that, I guess the surprising thing was that there were not any guest spots at all.  That seemed to work in the past... not having to rely on him and maybe him not wanting to be relied on.  Whenever he shows up, he can step on stage for a song or 2 and that's it.  That he was completely absent might suggest a broader disagreement... or not, maybe Izzy just wasn't feeling it this year, who knows...

The thing I find really odd about this is that Izzy himself made that twitter account and posted specifically addressing the rumors by saying he would NOT be a part of the April shows.

Or the money wasn't right for Izzy.  

I guess he is the only one that can say for sure.  It seems like they did reach out to him.  Or else I think we would of gotten an answer like.  "We just wanted to focus on this group right now, perhaps in the future we will reach out to Izzy."

Right, that was kind of strange, but the "this point in time" part and that he mentioned only the April shows left some hope, for me at least, that he'd be there in some capacity during the summer shows. 
 

Yeah me too, maybe that was his plan and then something changed.

I find it kinda interesting that both times Axl has spoken publicaly he's made a point to make sure we know he didn't force the CD songs down their throats.

As somebody who has followed on all these years seeing Slash play on those songs was one of the biggest kicks I got out of this whole summer.

Definitely stoked to see slash sit down with him too at some point ... Would be almost more surreal than seeing them perform.

When Axl called and he picked up he must have been like yeah right your not Axl.  :hihi:

Izzy on twitter:

Izzy Stradlin ‏@IzzyStradlin999  2m2 minutes ago
Bullshit
They didn't want to split the loot equally . Simple as that . Moving right along........

Izzy just posted on his twitter account:

@IzzyStradlin999:
Bullshit
They didn't want to split the loot equally . Simple as that . Moving right along........

Izzy on twitter:

Izzy Stradlin ‏@IzzyStradlin999  2m2 minutes ago
Bullshit
They didn't want to split the loot equally . Simple as that . Moving right along........

Lol

Well there it is.

Just caught that on my feed. He obviously saw the interview. If there's anyone in the band past or present that I would believe over the others its Izzy. Proof this wasn't 'for the fans'.

Why would they want to split the money equally? Axl, Slash and Duff are the biggest names/draws.

Ali

I don't think so. I think it goes Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff. Most gnr fans I think probably would have rather if Izzy was there over SLash.

You don't think that Izzy deserves the same amount as Duff if Duff is making an equal share with Axl n' Slash??


That being said.... shame on Izzy for not posting today's tweet as his initial tweet instead of the one he posted. IMO, he's just as guilty playing the fans as the rest. 

With this new tweet, is he saying that he would have honored a commitment to do however many shows Axl, Slash and Duff are going to play??  I have my doubts and I'm guessing that's what maybe Axl was alluding to when he said "It's like you could have a conversation and think it's one way and the next day it's another way.  Maybe one day Izzy agreed and the next he backed off??

And Izzy is lying to himself if he thinks now everyone is ... "Moving right along......." after he fired that shot.

So is this his direct response to Axl's comments, or did someone message him on Twitter?  Jesus Izzy. Dude must be pretty burned up to air that in public.

Well there it is. That's what was rumored earlier in the year. I believe it was MSL at GNR Truth that said it was money and/or a larger role.

I'm sorry, but there is no way Izzy is a bigger draw than Slash. Slash has had VR and a successful solo career in between GN'R stints. I couldn't disagree more.

Ali

Izzy has already played a number of shows with Axl in the recent past.  I think in most of the reunionist's eyes it was always Axl n' Slash and the others would just be cherries on top.

No, I don't. That's not even taking into consideration Izzy history, or lack thereof, of recently completing extensive tours.

Ali

That's what was the straw that broke the camels back back in 91. Money. In the Izzy interview in 2001 he said:  When Axl finally sent his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. ?This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like ?Fuck you! I?ve been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you, I?ll go play the Whiskey?. That?s what happened. It was insane.?

He may have played some songs here and there but I guarantee you if he would have rejoined the band and wrote music with them it would have been a way bigger deal than slash coming back.

GNR got themselves a Bill Ward!! So Izzy turned down because of the money...so now all of you who keep mourning about him not being part of this can cut the crap and move on...why would they split the loot equally if the 3 of them are the most relevant members? Remember when you left them high and dry in the middle of their biggest tour?? I just lost all respect i had for Izzy...to talk crap like this in public is just stupid...

So obviously an offer was made, but it sounds like he'd have been a paid employee under the big 3, similar to Richard, Frank & Dizzy.  I fucking LOVE Izzy, but I can't say that doesn't make sense based on what he brings to the table live nowadays. Richard was likely going to be there to "fill in" the sound regardless.  Really disappointed he aired it out like this...

Sounds like Izzy was content to keep things quiet until he heard the interview.  So much for the hope that Izzy will be the "behind the scenes guy" in the studio collaborating on music.  Pretty tough to see how the tour would've been more successful (in terms of ticket sales, reviews, etc.) with Izzy (obviously we would've liked to have seen him on stage).  Just another reminder that this is a business...I guess there's always hope that something could change (cough, money, cough) but it doesn't look good now.

Yeah, I would imagine this closes the door to any collaborations, live or otherwise, with Izzy for the foreseeable future.  Yet another reason he should've kept his yap shut.

I'm glad Izzy said what he said.  He feels he needs to set the record straight.  Good for him.  Really, everyone looks not great, here.  No one has the moral high ground.  If they were trying to treat Izzy on the employee level (like Frank or Richard) then that's kind of shitty, seeing as he is an original member.  However, Izzy should've known that any reunion involving Axl and Slash (and to a lesser extent, Duff) is going to be HUGE, so maybe he should've taken the deal (which I'm guessing is still a shit load of cash).  Ego, pride, and money.  Something's got to give.

Did Axl, Slash and Duff get equal shares?  Wasn't it rumored that Axl got 50 while Slash n Duff 25 each?  Maybe his issue was that they should have all split 25 each, including Axl.

Nah.  It's Izzy.  I think no matter what the door will always be left slightly ajar if he decides he wants back in in some capacity.

But I still don't see Izzy ever committing to do an extended world tour like is scheduled and with more shows being added as time goes on.

Equal pay for equal work.  He can't expect an equal share and still be able to pick and choose which shows he wants to do.

Wonder how he feels about playing the CD songs??  Wonder if that was one of the issues??

You're not wrong.  It's a shame, really on all fronts.  The 'big 3' could've said "Fuck it, it's taken us this long to make this happen, let's make it right for everyone involved." and given Izzy what he wanted to make it happen.  On the other hand, Izzy could have also realized what a long time coming this has been, and taken what they were offering (which I'm sure was still a fuck ton) and joined in for the fans.  So yes, I would agree that no one's hands are entirely clean here.

So was this the reason why they avoided interviews!????? I think so... They didn't want a "bad look" while touring. Just my opinion...

I'm just glad this broke after the U.S. tour concluded.  :-\

Yeah, what sucks is that it seems to foreclose the chance of seeing Izzy on stage, which is a real bummer.  What's interesting is what kind of role was Izzy offered?  A full time gig, like Slash and Duff?  But then what about Richard?  Was Richard an Izzy contingency, or was he always going to be involved, and Izzy was going to be more like Steven and play at select shows?

So many questions that we'll likely never get the real answers to!  

I think is part of the reason they avoided interviews

I'm glad they had Richard. He's a maniac to watch onstage

The business side of things is often ugly. In all fairness to Axl, Slash, and Duff it would appear they chose to share the profits so to speak 3 ways instead of 4. Simple math really. They probably weren't offered any more for Izzy's inclusion, so I can see their rationale. It may seem harsh, but such is life. Izzy wasn't integral to this tour being a success or a difference maker in terms of selling tickets.

Plus, what Axl said about Izzy, he's stayed consistent through the years. It's not like he just came up with the "Izzy does Izzy" mantra. Hell, back when Axl and Slash were on bad terms he even said that a reunion would work more with Slash and Duff because he couldn't necessarily rely on Izzy.

I understand where Izzy's coming from. He's obviously massively important to the history of this band. But he left them in their heyday, which I'm sure didn't sit well at the time. And frankly, I think he overplayed his hand here. Just be honest and say you wanted more money than they were willing to give. It's honorable enough to believe you deserve your just due. But again, the money was there with or without Izzy. Greed, is good. I know it's probably hard not to take it personal, but it's just business.

I would be willing to bet the farm that Richard was likely always going to be involved to "fill in" the sound, especially on the Chinese Democracy tracks.  Can't for the life of me see Izzy handling rhythms on Chinese, Better TWAT, etc.  It could even be argued that he'd be a stronger rhythm presence than Izzy, which could have played into their thinking.

He didn't say much here, and yes, still lotsa questions.  I wonder what, if anything, we'll here from GNR about this.

Three sides to every story: his, theirs, and the truth.

When I saw Duff's facial expression, I got the feeling that Axl said something that maybe he shouldn't have. Looks like my feeling was right.

If you're not 4tus, your against us !

The silly/frustrating part is that he has always been on good terms with all three of them ... Then they finally do it ... and he's not there ...

No, it doesn't. That's just you projecting.

Ali

He didn't say anything that he hasn't said before.

Not projecting anything. I studied communications in college, ToastMasters and Dale Carneige. His nonverbal communication gave it away.

That's just the way the cookie crumbles, unfortunately for Izzy. Duff pretty much replaced Tommy. Slash replaced Ron & DJ. Richard and Frank stayed put and promoters STILL threw boatloads of money at them. Izzy wasn't a deal breaker by any means, as there wasn't an inherent need for his inclusion.

Yep. He made similar comments back in '06 during the Eddie Trunk interviews before the Hammerstein shows about Izzy, and everyone knows they were on great terms then. Seems like Izzy has been harboring some resentment about how negotiations went down and took what Axl said as a pot shot and likely immediately took to twitter to vent his frustrations.

That's cool. But, no offense, that doesn't make you a mindreader and give you an awareness of what was going through Duff's mind at the time.

Ali

True, but one big point. Duff was not there at that time. Also, this time is a bit different considering the magnitude of this tour.

Which always helps a situation. Like with Ron's propensity to do that.  :(

Ali

Never said I was! However, you have to be able to read people.  We communicate 70% of the time nonverbally. Look up the research.  

Haha, yeah that always goes over swimmingly. The shitty thing here is that these guys were friends just a short while ago, and money has obviously soured that.  And who knows what the future held? I can't think that this bodes well for future collaborations.

How was he supposed to answer the question though? He pretty much talked about Izzy the same way he's done for the past decade. Izzy does his own thing. He even said in the past, when he and Slash were far from good, that a reunion would only work with Slash and Duff involved, because of Izzy's unreliability. He could've said "Izzy wanted more money" or "We didn't want to give Izzy an equal share", because I'd buy both of those. But he took the more diplomatic approach, and at the same time, he didn't stray from anything that he's said in the past. It is what it is.

You never know. We've learned firsthand that anything is possible over the last few years. I wouldn't slam any doors shut completely.

'Never say never' has certainly been the mantra of 2016.  But this ugliness doesn't exactly make it any easier.  Ah well.  Maybe the Guns camp will parry this with some new album news.  ;)

I don't think it can be considered ugly just yet. There'd need to be a response and ensuing war of words to get it to that level. Not sure if we'll get there.

Agreed. Axl tried to handle it diplomatically. It was similar to what he said in 2006 about Izzy.

Ali

Totally agree.  I give Axl credit.  He obviously didn't put any restrictions on what questions could be asked and everyone had to know that the Izzy situation would come up. 

Makes me wonder if knowing the question would be asked is the reason why Slash didn't participate and Duff didn't speak up.

Axl gave a diplomatic but honest answer that every GNR fan could accept (Izzy being Izzy) yet leaving the door wide open for further negotiations.

It doesn't help.

And, let's be real: GN'R sold over a million tickets and grossed over $115M on tour without him. GN'R doesn't NEED him to do great business like Slash is needed.

Ali

Yeah, I hate to sound like a dick, but Izzy overplayed his hand here and overestimated his importance to the band's future success. No one will question the impact he made on the band historically speaking. But this round of touring was/is going to be massively successful regardless of his inclusion. The money was there because of Axl and Slash. No offense to Duff, but he was pretty much back in the band anyway in Tommy's place, so he was an added bonus. There simply wasn't a genuine NEED for Izzy to be involved. The numbers prove that.

They sold 95% of tickets per show at not exactly cheap ticket prices without Izzy. It's not being a dick to say that proves he isn't needed to sell a huge number of tickets.

Ali

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/izzy-stradlin-says-he-isnt-involved-with-guns-n-roses-reunion-because-they-didnt-want-to-split-the-loot-equally/

Exactly, even Adler is doing guest spots!

I guess I'll start the discussion on this board.   My thoughts are

We don't know the particulars.  Was Izzy interested in doing the whole tour?  Did he want to do just certain shows?  Or just make two song cameos like Addler?  We don't know.  Just like Axl has a bad rep for all his past actions, Izzy has a bad rep for not being the most reliable. 

I like Izzy a lot,but who will have trust in Izzy Stradlin ???
He is cool guy but he can quit the tour anywhere he wants

Izzy's latest tweet


(https://s17.postimg.org/tnh0dcjen/izzy.png) (https://twitter.com/IzzyStradlin999/status/773679504044625920)

Although I am quite disappointed, I'm pretty sure it's just one side of the whole situation. I believe there's much more to the story, the truth is usually somewhere in between.

Let's see how it goes...

This reminds me a bit of the Kiss reunion where Paul and Gene made the case that they had been out touring for years and still promoting the band name while Peter Criss had been doing nothing. But a case can be made that Izzy did write a lot of Gnr songs too. I also couldn't see Izzy learning CD songs. Gnr are a big band with a lot of members it's less straight forward than the Bill ward fiasco.
Also I really hope this doesn't stop the band doing more press.

I think it's as we thought- things aren't perhaps quite as rosy behind the scenes as they have been made to appear!

Maybe Axl could have said 'We just couldn't agree to terms with Izzy; we would love to have him here' Also I think its a lot more complicated then anyone can imagine. I don't think Axl was rude in anyway towards Izzy. He has played with GNR here and there since 2006.

I really enjoyed the interview. Axl looks great. Duff is entertaining and smart as usual. I would like to see an interview with Duff and Slash and get their prospective. Clearly Duff acquiesced to Axl so it would interesting to see Duff and Slash together speaking as equals.  If that is not permissible or possible then an interview with Axl and Slash would be interesting, but I am not holding my breath for that to happen.

^ That approach makes sense. Apparently, they all have "people" who  do the talking for the band members. It seems hard to get one on one between the principals. I believe that if they could talk directly a lot of this nonsense could be avoided or mitigated.

I'd say there is a definite case for Axl getting more, due to the fact he's kept this band going all these years etc, but seems odd the 'loot' wouldn't be split equally really, if Izzy was intended to do full shows, for the entire tour, which I sort of don't believe would have been the case- largely as that sort of commitment seems a bit out of character.

What a shame though that once again money becomes an arguing point.

"How to be a Communist in a Capitalist band" by Izzy Stradlin

As I stated in the other thread, you could tell that something was off by Duff's facial expression when the question was asked. There are three sides to every story. With that being said, I kinda think Izzy shouldn't have used Twitter. He hasn't always been reliable.

Offering Duff more money is a an absolute fkn major slap in the face if this is the case,Izzy along with Axl was the main force behind GnR ,after reading Slashes book Axl was very fond of his contracts and basically relegating others in the band to hired hand's,Izzy was right to turn it down as founding member and main songwriter he deserves an equal slice of the pie  at the  very least.

Like any other job you get paid what you are worth.

If he's talking about splitting the money equally, of course they were considering having him for the entire tour. It would make no sense splitting equally if he was only supposed to show up at a few shows.

Izzy is not doing anything wrong. Axl implied he isn't there because he's not reliable, and that's not true. It was a money problem. Just imagine how many messages he's receiving since that interview! And the guy can't even set the record straight, tell his version? Really? So everyone thinks you're not there because you're unreliable and you should just not say anything?

GNR has not the best track record regarding puntualitty, commitment etc and the tour is going just fine. If you're going to judge Izzy by his behavior in the past, do it to everyone else and this tour would not exist. Izzy is not a kid anymore, he's sober. I'm sure if he signed the contract, he would do it. He's not crazy to just check out for many reasons, but I'll just say that he would have a few legal problems if he did that.

Would be great to see him there, but the casual fan doesn't care as long as they see Axl and Slash. I don't think Izzy is right and the others are wrong, I just think it's sad they couldn't do the right thing, doesn't matter the audience perception, and get an agreement good enough to everyone so we could have a reunion.

I think it can be both, depending on who's perspective you're looking at things from.

Axl likely does view it as a reliability issue.  And you're not going to pay (or ask to participate in a "full" way) someone who's reliability you question as much as a guy who you think you can depend on to be there every single show. So you explain that, offer him less (with the mind that it will cost MORE to replace him if he flakes OR with the outlook that he can sort of prove he'll show up, with an increased role down the road in mind).  If you ask Axl, that all goes to reliability.

Izzy likely looks at it as a monetary issue.  Slash and Duff were getting cut in as equal splits (or more equal...whatever) while Izzy was being offered less (and, I still think, a lesser guest role...at least to start...until he could prove his dependability/commitment). Izzy knows his own mind and heart, so if you ask him, it's a money issue.

Neither guy is wrong.

Read Axl's quote again (thanks for the transcription GeorgeSteele).  What I heard Axl imply was that there was an ongoing negotiation with Izzy about the terms of the contract and Izzy was flip-flopping on the terms he was or wasn't agreeing to which as we now know included the monies.

Izzy also flaked on the eve of a major tour, and album release...and has repeatedly said things that make it seem like he has no interest in undergoing a huge tour, or being involved in GnR on a day to day basis.

Now, maybe things changed with this reunion, and Izzy feels differently now.  Fair enough.

But you have the rest of the band worried about what happens if Izzy flakes again...and what it would have meant if they'd advertised his involvement and not shown up given the implications of this tour, and it's importance to GnR.  I don't think it's overstating to say that, if this had crashed and burned, Coma would have been more than just a song title.

So I think there's a certain amount of responsibility to protect that, and to keep in mind the costs of replacing Izzy short notice, and then the "costs" in terms of reputation of him potentially flaking out.  Even if it didn't come to be.

I said in the post above this one: I suspect he was offered a guest role for a bunch of shows, and so less money than Slash and Duff were getting.  But even if he was offered less for an every day role, I'd say FOR THIS TOUR, that would be fair.  I'm not talking about paying him paupers wages, here, but I also don't think expecting him to accept a lesser share than Duff, given comparable reliability, is a "slap in the face".

I get it: People wanted to see him up there. Me too.  But I can see both sides of the coin on this one.  I LOVE Izzy.  I think he was one of the most valuable (invaluable, really) songwriting pieces to this band.  But I've also listened to what Izzy has said over the years, too.   I think if Izzy honestly expected an equal share in all this..then that's another case of Izzy being Izzy.

It's a good point.  I've been reading that quote another way, but I think your interpretation is an interesting read.

They all got their points. Izzy has the right to claim equal loot because he is an old buddy and founding member who did write many songs. BUT he isn't the big drawing factor like Axl/Slash (and Duff to some extent). Plus, Axl probably thinks he deserves more money because he was always part of GNR throughout all the years. Grey area I suppose.
Cann understand Izzy felt the need of "setting the record straight" because Axl painted him as an unreliable character even thougjh money was the main problem. I think from Izzys point of view, Axl came across (I learnt the term on that forum) passive aggressiv. Pretty ironical.

Again, grey area there. I think it's more about equality than it is about money.

In fairness Izzy left because he couldn't handle Axl's behavior ,showing up late or not at all ,attacking fan's,inciting riots ,being a control freak the list is endless,he never flaked he left the band when the  over blown soap opera got way out of hand , he just wanted to get up and play as did Duff and Slash but they put up with Axl's behavior because they didn't have the balls to walk away and  maybe wanted to see it through until the wheels fell off which they did.

lol looks like TheBaconman was right, once again

So there is still a legal partnership between Axl, Slash and Duff....

Axl owns the name GNR.....

When Izzy was still in the band he was paid as an employee for performances.

When Izzy came back to do a few shows with Axl a few years ago he was paid as an employee for performances.   

Izzy gets paid huge still from past royalties from this band.

But from me judging from that tweet, he would of wanted to tour and perform with this band and get paid like he was in still sorta partnership with the band.   The partnership he walked away from years ago.....

In fairness, Izzy took his ball and went home...about 15 minutes before the start of "the big game".

He walked away, with almost zero notice. And I get that the preferred narrative for everything that has ever gone wrong, ever, is that it's all Axls fault.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter why, or whether he though it was justified. He flaked by the nature of the WAY HE DID IT.  He didn't just leave Axl in the lurch.  He left the band, the promoters, they fans, the label....everyone that was sort of depending on him...at pretty much the last possible minute.  I'm sorry...that is going to make your band mates question how dependable you are when going into a (potentially) similar situation.  

As an Izzy fan, you can take issue with that term "flaked", I guess. Choose another that conveys the same meaning with a connotation more to your liking. But it's what he did.

So, with a great unknown as to how things were going to go, on the road, til they actually got out there (and I think they seemed to go well)...whats to say that Izzy doesn't get through the first show, face some adversity or tension, and then decides to walk away again?  What assurances do you have that Izzy doesn't just decide he'd rather be racing Dune Buggies in Malibu?

Again, I love Izzy.  But history is history.....and I think it's telling that some folks want to give SOME members of the band the benefit of the doubt, and leeway for past actions, but hold others accountable FOREVER for theirs.

I'm 100% OK if you disagree with any of that...but to me: friendship is friendship and buisiness is business.  And it would be bad business to give an even split to a guy who, in a similar business relationship, had burned you before.  You find a way to hedge your bets.  Sounds like maybe they tried to do that, and Izzy wasn't having it.

And ultimately.   Why should they split the loot?   Because izzy wants too? Haha. Ok then....

They are playintg sold out huge shows some cities multiple shows.   Hardly any promotion at all and they are racking in the money on there own!   

What value would there be in splitting up the loot even more?   Sure there would be value in having izzy play and I would just love it.   But I can see why Axl slash and duff wouldn't want to split up any more money.   They don't have too!

To be "nice", I guess?  And I DO think there's some value in that, which is why you offer him a spot, at a cost that makes sense when you consider all the variables, even if it means the "principal players" each end up taking a little bit less. And he likely deserves a nice share of the ducats, too.  You want to fairly acknowledge his contributions to the material, and the history of the band.

But its a fair point, too. Izzy's biggest contributions, IMHO, were not on stage.  They were (and again, totally invaluable) in the studio.

His name would add value to the tour, but..you're right.  When you did the kind of numbers they ended up doing...how many more tickets does adding Izzy sell?  How much more revenue does he add per show?  If you're looking at it from a purely mercenary, numbers point of view....you're dead on.  When you're 95% sold out, sell over a million tickets, and pull in over 116 million in revenue...you're approaching a point where adding Izzy actually isn't CAPABLE (given capacity) of adding enough to "pay" for his share.  And I totally acknowledge that's a bastard, cavalier, mercenary, crappy way to look at it.  But it bears at least some consideration in all this.

Again, I think BOTH sides are "right", here.  Axl/Slash/Duff, maybe, view it as Izzy being Izzy, both on negotiations and in terms of potential reliability to show up and stick with the whole tour.  I think Izzy views it as "I was an equal contributor to the creation of 90% of the material that's going to be played during the tour...doesn't that, in itself, warrant a more equal share of the loot".  And again, that's a valid POV because Izzy knows his mind and commitment level.  The issue is: The people he's negotiating with don't.

So you get an impasse.  It sorta stinks for those that want to see Izzy up there (and I count myself in that number), but it is what it is.  I'm not sure why people want to blame either one, or need to take sides.  I think BOTH POVs are valid...sometimes that's just the way it works.

I was disappointed when I read that Tweet this morning. I was hoping Izzy's non-involvement wasn't gonna be about money. I don't think an equal split of the money should be paid to Izzy if he was going to just make a guest appearance. I can't see him taking Richard's place either to do all the Chinese Democracy material either. I understand how important he was to GnR in the past and I'd love to see him perform with the guys again but what are they supposed to do now? They can't risk letting Richard go and taking Izzy back full time when he might decide it's not for him again. It's impossibly to please everybody

I really don't think this has anything to do with how much of a 'draw' Izzy would have been for the tours.  Slash is obviously a tremendous draw, but would Axl have him back on board if he felt he could not rely on him? 

Seeing the greater context in all this, Axl's quote now reads to me as saying that, Izzy being who he is, is not someone who he can be partners with again.  He can pay him to play when/if he shows up, but that's it.  Another Axl quote from 2009 sheds some more light on Axl's thinking:

"The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds." 

Finally, some good old fashioned GN'R drama! Things had started getting a bit "kumbaya" for my taste.  :beer:

I largely agree.

BUT, on the flip side, if they felt having Izzy along would, potentially, increase ticket sales and revenue by...IDK...25%?, I think there's a better case to be made for an "equal share". You know? It would give Izzy more leverage and Axl/Slash/Duff more impetus to cave to that request.

And again, I acknowledge that's a purely mercenary way to look at it, and it's likely not the only consideration, or the only POV, that was consdiered. At all. It would do Izzy a disservice, IMHO, to ONLY consider that bit.

But it doesn't make it less true. ;)


I think that sums it up, well.  Maybe not in that concrete a way as to rule it out, forever.  But I think there's some reticence, both by the band as it exists, and "the money guys" involved, to depend on Izzy (with compensation consideration based off that).

Well really its all about how much value/reward/risk Izzy brings.

If there was some sorta revolt from fans, when this 3 guy reunion was announced.  If they could sell as many tickets as they did.  If they didn't get as many rave reviews as they did.  I am very sure they would of reached out to Izzy and tried to make something work

What it seems to me is.  They offered Izzy a deal.  He didn't like it.  They moved on.....  And were very, very successful.  

:P

It's funny...I don't see why people are getting so worked up about it.

Two sides have different, equally valid, point of views.  They couldn't come to an agreement.  They both present their POV in separate statements that are different, but totally reconcile with what we know.

So...where's the drama?

At this point, it's just about jumping on a side for shits and grins.

I choose no side.

Some people on here going on about Izzy's unreliability have very short memories, but open your eyes everyone knows who the most unreliable singer in history is .OK this tour so far he ain't stepped out of line ,but is wasn't so long ago he cancelled an entire European tour because he bizzarely claimed he never knew of it's existence until he saw it on the internet.

Yeah, I can't say I actually care much either. I got to see a helluva show in Nashville this summer. It'd be cool to see Izzy and Steven both come out for a few songs at some point in the future, but the reality is that even if it happens, it's not like they're suddenly the GN'R from 1987. Time marches on, things change, and I try not to get too greedy or controlling about what GN'R is/was/should be.  :beer:

But, a long string of mostly contented posts don't make for a very exciting discussion thread.  :smoking:

I would pay good money for a one off PPV, with all the original AFD members, but also with some of CD era guys, buckethead and robin etc.....

Pay Izzy good money for this one off show....

Make a great blue ray out of this...   

Have it in front of a huge crowd

First off, nice call.  You nailed it before Izzy tweeted that he wasn't happy with the money.

Would have been a big risk IMO.  If Izzy wanted in as an equal partner and the full-time responsibilities that come with that, would they have kept Richard?  I have a hard time seeing Slash wanting to play with 2 other guitarists.  So you have the possibility of permanently losing Richard, but even if they did go with 3 full-time guitarists, if Izzy bails mid-tour, how does the band suddenly adjust to a 2-guitar setup?  Also, would promoters negotiate penalty provisions if a band member leaves?  Plus, the press would have scorched them.  Again, even if Izzy had the star power of Slash, I don't think Axl would have done it.  I believe he would have agreed to take less money and make Izzy an equal partner if he knew he could rely on Izzy the same way he can with Slash and Duff.  

Also, Izzy left the partnership and was likely paid back then for forfeiting his share of the partnership.  To get back into an established partnership, you have to buy in, you can't just walk in after 25 years and get your same share back for nothing.  

That's a fair point, but it comes down to who has more to lose.  What is Izzy risking if Axl goes retro with his tour behavior?  Izzy's life goes on the same regardless. 

Wasn't so long as in...15+ years.

Again, you can't have it both ways.  You can't take the piss out of Axl, and then plead Izzy's case.  Or you can, but it's hypocritical.

Izzy did what he did.

And in this case, Axl's reliability (which has been pretty much unassailable for about 5 year or so...so he HAS proven otherwise, but whatever) has no bearing.  Izzy was potentially joining an existing construct with Axl, Slash, and Duff...not vice versa.

You might not like it, but it is what it is.

Anarchist!

:P  :smoking:  :beer:

I have said it before and I will say it again this band is 100X better with Richard in it then Izzy. I understand this tour has been somewhat of a nostalgia tour but at the same time with the added CD songs Richard is the much better fit going forward. While we should all embrace the past GNR I am also looking at what is best potential going forward Izzy is not part of that in my mind.

Just for the money. "The rocker " is just a greedy crybaby. Do u really think u deserve the same amount of money? really? U left by fuckin choice don't giving a fuck and now u want the money. I think adler deserves more money than you...

I understand that viewpoint, I understand Axl's reluctance to essentially re-marry him, but c'mon, it's still Izzy.  Of course the tour did great because of the star power of Axl and Slash, but the music itself had something to do with the success of the tour and Izzy had a big hand in creating most of the music they played. I agree he was over-stepping with wanting to be equal partners, but regardless, I do wish they would have been able to work out something with him.   

What a hired hand is better than having Izzy there? Get off the stage will u any real fan would want Izzy involved aswell as Adler full time and the fact that they are not makes it less of a reunion,however not to piss on the parade it's been a very successful and entertaining tour so far ,whose to say what might happen in the near future.

This is very true

I would always want the players that wrote the music to play the music!!!    The argument that so and so sounds better playing someone elses music is stupid.   I album being played at home sounds great!  I go see a band to hear that band play there music, not other people play other peoples music, because they are better at playing it live.   Who cares...

That being said I have no problem with Richard in this band, being in the background, playing music.   Someone has too!!

It will be interesting if guns decides to tour the US again....  What the response will be.   Will the fans still sell out stadiums all over, for this line up, with the same songs......    I have no reason right now to think they wont....   But if ticket sales slide, perhaps that's the time to give old Izzy a call......   

I knew it.

Them motherfuckers.  That's it, I'm done.

Guns N' Roses R.I.P. 1996.

Thank you for the memories.

Dude, they're playing his songs... Wake up.

Man, the vehemence behind some of the outrage I've seen about this is a little silly.  I get that this is somewhat disappointing, but the fact that some people are seemingly shocked that some of the decisions behind the tour were financially motivated is laughable.

The Axl/Slash reunion was ALWAYS the big draw here. That's what this was about.  Izzy damn near toured with the band in 2006 & 2014.  It was little more than a blurb on Rolling Stone. Now they're selling out football stadiums in the U.S. Hellooooo, anybody home McFly?!

Dude, they're playing GN'R songs...wake up.

Ali

No, they're still playing Guns N' Roses songs.
Sure, he wrote or co-wrote, some of them. But still, his solo albums don't exactly sound like GN'R....

They kept playing "his" songs after he quit in 1991 too. 



By the way, I thought you were done? 20 years too late.... 20 years you'll never get back! Sorry.



/jarmo

This 100%.

I can't believe anyone is in denial of this. GN'R is playing stadiums in the US again because Slash and Duff (to perhaps a lesser extent) are back in the band. It is that simple.

Ali

It's a nice thought that pie could be split equal ways.  But with this tour, which will go on well into 2017 & beyond, we're talking millions upon millions of dollars. You'd essentially be giving Izzy an equal share by virtue of him being an orginal member, and not necessarily what he's capable of doing on the stage at this point, after years of being out of the game, unlike the big three who are seasoned pros at touring and playing GNR music. 

Again, it's a nice thought.  But then there's reality which is just not that simple.

That is undeniably true, but I don't think it's the reason they refused to share equally with Izzy.  If they knew he'd be all in 100%, bringing it night after night, learning the CD songs, remembering all the old ones, etc., I think they would have bit the bullet and paid him. 

Here is the problem too many of you are living in the past like everything has to be the same as it was before. Give me one band that kept every single member thru out their history. Izzy will forever be remembered for his contributions to this band thats not in dispute. It feels like some people would just rather this band go away permanently rather then proceed if it doesn't include the original 5 which isn't going to happen get behind this band now. Im sorry but some of you need to move on from the past.

I remember interviews with both Izzy and Axl, separatley, from 91-92 that Izzy left because Axl wanted to "lower him down the totem pole", pay him less money because he wasn't running around on stage, and Axl confirming that by saying Izzy wasn't "working hard enough" on stage. I mean, just because he wasn't running around? It is after all Izzys songs and they didn't write new ones whitout him. Standing by the Marshalls is his stage persona and it's really cool! Izzy is a kind of Keith Richards type. Do you think Angus was paying Malcolm less money because they didn''t have the same coreography on stage?

Izzy is'nt reliable? The last tour he was with them he "had a bus, they hade a plane and (he) beat them to the gig". He was there until he was not and he then he quit, for being paid less performing songs he wrote his way and in his style. He was on all their previous tours from 1986, did he  went missing some where? Didn't showed up? O.D.d?

You forgot to mention that he can't be seen in the Don't Cry or You Could Be Mine (the acting part) videos.

Also, he came back and did some shows in 1993. But that didn't seem like a happy ending....



/jarmo

I'm done with anything that was and will be done under the name 'GNR' post '96-ish.

Anything else is still fair game.  This is still a GNR discussion forum last time I checked.

I suspect that whole "not working hard enough" had more to do with the "playing a different song, in a different key" and having to have a tech who's job it specifically was to turn Izzy down in the mix.

And yes, I know that was while Izzy was fucked up.  But you're citing interviews from around that same time, too.


It's simple.  And you can like it or not. But at the end of the day, Izzy walked out of the band, quit with almost no notice, on the eve of a HUGE global album launch and tour. He no showed video filming and, apparently, didn't actually explain why until he quit, later. Reason that away all you want, but it's whats happened.

That goes toward "unreliable".

And pick on the other members all you want, but, again, Izzy was joining their premade construct, this time.  So the negotiations on that front, in terms of THEIR potentially being "unreliable", were complete, and either assurances had been made, or folks were a bit more trusting (and given recent history, they had reason to trust) in those cases.  Has Izzy done anything. other than show up at a few shows (and Axl has always given the impression those visits were sort of impromptu) in recent years, to make the same case?

Honestly, I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over this, or trying to "blame" either side.

Sure enough it's valid to point out that he wasn't in the acting part of the You Could Be Mine video, he should have been! But I always was under the impression he already had quit in the time of the making of Don't Cry (?) But I'm not aware of when it was filmed (?)

Sure, the story goes Izzy was unrehearsed during the 5 (?) 93 shows, that might very well be. But wasn't he just helping out during the time Gilby was injured? And were paid some money he thought the band owed him so it was hardly like he was supposed to be back for good.
Something bad must have went down because shortly after Axl dedicated Double Talkin Jive to Izzy from the stage at the Olympic Stadium in Stockholm. Which is kinda funny considering who wrote the song :hihi: ;D

This thread is about events that took place in 2016. And maybe last year. Not 1996.

So please, keep your promise. Thank you.




Yes, he was on his way out. He had already played the last show as a member of the band.

But the fact remains, while he was in the band, he made decisions that went against what the rest of the band was doing. Videos for example. I'm sure the other guys remember these things...







/jarmo

Well, that should make the forum...erm....interesting for you! if you're done with anything post-96, that doesn't leave much to discuss!

He quit (or it was announced he quit) in November of 1991.

I don't remember the premiere date, but the copyright on the video is also 1991.  I'm assuming that would mean it was filmed before he "officially" left. 

Anyone have more concrete info?

You've got yourself a deal !

See you over in Dead Horse!! :)

I always thought the "unreliable" with Izzy came from not wanting to do press or music videos or anything else required by the biggest band in the world at the time

With the whole, "axl wanted to demote Izzy and cut his pay back"  I am not really sure what legaly Axl or the band could of done at the time, as Izzy was still part of the partnership.    It was Izzy who left the partnership, it was Izzy who quit the band.  He wasn't fired.   From what I remember, it was mostly about money then as well.  He didn't want to pay for the videos, or the plane, or the late fees, or anything else.  He left the partnership, left any responsibility.....   Kept getting paid huge royalty cheques, but no commitments to anything future or present.   Good or bad

So now after all the above is done.   Now he wants an equal piece of the gravy pie?!?!?!    I totally see why the boys wouldn't give it to him

No worries.  I'd rather discuss '85-'96 ad infinitum, then waste my time on what they did to my favourite band.

Just to be clear, I'm sure most of us would love to see Izzy on stage with GN'R in the future. And considering that only a few years ago, the current tour would've seem impossible, so who knows what happens in the future.

I'm just pointing out that I suspect things aren't as black or white as his tweet might make it seem...  :)




/jarmo

The song's release date is Sep 17, 1991.  Back then, videos came out around the same time the song was released.  So, would appear that he no-showed before he quit.  

This, This, this, so much this!!

I would love to see Izzy up there.

I respect both sides reasoning for why it didn't happen this tour.

Axl, Slash and Duff are all getting different percentages. Axl the most, then Slash then Duff. If they all got equal with Izzy of course Axl would get less, Slash would get a little less but Duff would get more so Duff would go for it.

Ahhh...the halcyon days when Mtv actually played music videos for most of the day. :)

Drawn from my memory he played the last show in august and the video was released in september.

I don't not believe you, but what's the source for this?

So has this actually ever been confirmed any where, other than just opinion?

I have heard an equal 3 way split

Then I heard Axl at 50, both duff and slash at 25..

Then I have heard Axl at 50, slash and duff and 25, for all concert fees.   That Axl has to pay the rest of the band out of his share of the pie.  That all merch sales are split equally.  

I think the 3rd option is most acurate

Sure, but...they didn't PLAY any shows, either, between August and September (in fact, after Izzy's last show, they didn't play another til December 5th...less than 30 days after the announcement).

And, if the video came out in September...pretty good bet it was filmed (with post production, editing, etc needing to be done) MONTHS before that.

In other words, it's likely he played the show in AUGUST AFTER the video for "Don't Cry" was filmed, and he no showed it.

I've never seen anything official, either.

And I've seen all 3 of the scenarios you floated too.

I've also heard they were each (the big 3) getting a million per show, flat fee, with an equal split of the GnR share of merch. 

But none of them are more than theories, I don't think.

Iv'e Always thougt both Axl and Izzy seems to be very honests persons. And both are saying it as they see it. Axl was just diplomatic saying on tv he didn't know what to say presumably because he didn't want to discuss  delicate buisness negoations in that forum. If you are pissed off maybe you say that it's bulllshit not knowing what to say but that I certinlay don't think it was Axls intention, as he stressed not ta take shots, to be untruthfull  I still hope they will perform toghether again...some time in this life time soon! :beer:

Just to flesh out the timeline and add perspective.

Even assuming Izzy walked off stage after his last show on Aug 31, 1991 and, the next day (Sept 1, 1991) told the band he was done....that's 90 days to FIND a replacement, teach them the songs, blocking, etc, get the contracts signed and business stuff taken care of...before a tour that was already booked and tickets were being sold for.

It's also about 2 weeks from a HUGE album launch.

And I think the odds that he quit on Sept 1st are slim, to say the least.

Keep in mind, I don't mean to slag on Izzy, here.  I think the reasons he did it were totally fine.  He was worried about life stuff like happiness, quality of life, and sobriety/sanity.  I get it.

But it is what it is.

It seems likeley yes. But I don't think even missing the YCBM acting shoot and the Dont Cry video when he was on the way out of the band says anything about his overall reallibility when it comes to touring, being on time , being on stage the whole time etc.

MSL on GNR Truth. Who's been very reliable.

Per MSL:   

"And even if Richard didn't have the spot, the loot isn't being split equally among Axl/Slash/Duff, so why would Axl want to have to split it equally with Axl/Slash/Duff/Izzy?"

"let's look at some simple hypothetical numbers.

show grosses 5 million. band's guarantee is 3 million, but there are a lot of expenses. of that 3 million, 1 million goes straight to axl/slash/duff. 500k for axl, 300k for slash, 200k for duff.

in that scenario, izzy would be insisting on 250k axl, 250k slash, 250k duff and 250k izzy.

why would axl or slash agree to that?"

Love you, man...but just like I pooped on the article who's big source was MSL...you lost me at quoting MSL.

:)

Your mileage may vary.

I guess there is no good time for a break up. If he didn't quit then was he supposed to have continued until Argentina in 93 just to be called reliable? At the time, I think, Axl was hurt that he quit, no matter the time frame. I think he felt let down.  Slash didn't seem to care so much at the time,( finding it more comfartable to handle Gilby wich could never be heard, talk about a guy who must have had his amp turned down very low the whole time! Never heard a riff/guitarr sound from that guy besides on Wild Horses.)

So it's not like Izzy just was a no show at a gig. That would be unreilable. He quit, he resigned. And people had the right to feel let down by that, but feeling let down by something is not the same thing as that person is some one you could not trust even if it may feel like it at the time.

Izzy bailed in 1991 because of Axl's insanity.

But even before then, the other members were all saying amongst themselves he was sort of half assing it out there.

I also think Izzy has lost a lot of his "everyman" cred with how he's handled all this with the tweets and whatnot.  Kind of juvenile.

Agree.  Hope both sides (or however many sides are involved in this) can find a satisfactory resolution for everyone concerned.

IMO, Izzy did himself a disservice by using the word "loot" (who uses that word anyway??)
Instead he should have said something along the lines of "We haven't as yet come to an agreement as to my role in this endeavor."

Hopefully, Axl's interview statement and Izzy's subsequent tweet will be the catalyst to reopen negotiations for Izzy's future participation.

All the guys have guitar techs don't they? If they turned him down for being fucked up, it must have been years Before 91. But he was really low that year too and he was the only one completley sober. Guess Slash just liked his guitar to be really loud and out there ???

Oh, I don't pick on any members, besides maybe Gilby for his lack of contribution and alwas on Chris Pitman for his contributions ( no thanx for the sub bass and what ever) and piss poor attitude. ;D

I'm not saying he had to do anything different.

I'm saying what happened, happened.

And you can try to explain it away, but the fact is, he left them in the lurch.

As for that last bit...they are both varying degrees of unreliable.

If you don't show up for work one day, no call, no show, that's unreliable (aka the video shoots) in the eyes of the people you work with.

If you know there is a HUGE project going on at work, with a drop dead due date, and it hinges on your participation, included millions of dollars of investment, plus TIME SPENT from other people...and you quit just as it's about to happen...that, too, make you look unreliable to the people you work with.

He actually did both.

And you can argue that Axl and Slash have likewise had issues...but Axl has been the good citizen for about 5+ years, and Slash has been clean and reliable, DEMONSTRABLY, for about 15+ years.  They have a body of work they can point to that helps their case when talking to the other members.

Does Izzy have that?  Really?  All he has is the bad taste he left in their mouths when he walked away in a VERY SIMILAR situation.

I don't think they worry that Izzy will just not show up (maybe some of that, too).  I think they worry that 6 shows in he says "I'm done".  Or even 23 shows in, before the next leg is set to start.

You can sit there and argue that they shouldn't or it's not fair or whatever.

But it is what it is. It's not any more, or less, valid a point of view than Izzys.  I'm not trying to convince you that YOU should feel the same way Axl/Slash/Duff might.  I'm trying to lay out to you why THEY might feel that way, and be justified in doing so.  You don't have to agree..you just have to (well, you don't actually, but that's my intent here) see it from their side.

And realize that they're actually BOTH right.  BOTH sides are doing what they see as being in their best interests.

WE don't get the result we want, which sucks.  But thems the brakes.

Yes, but I honestly would bet my life savings that Axl wouldn't have kicked Richard to the curb.  If anything, Izzy would be the third guitarist.

But, the US tour was very successful and went off with no incidents.  The proof is in the pudding.  There's nothing to say based on the outcome and events of the tour that they were wrong in relying on Richard as opposed to Izzy.

Ali

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Here's some talk discussing it:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/210020-why-was-izzys-amp-unplugged-during-the-91-uyi-tour/

You'll see mention of the '93 shows, too...but the thread talks about what was done during the '91 dates, too.  You'll notice, in the interview in the thread, Axl mentions is worked "especially well in Tel Aviv", insinuating that was not the first or only time they'd done it. ;)

I agree, the sobriety references in Axls quotes make it sound like it started while Izzy was smashed (so pre '89) and just continued forward. Or they're Axl not remembering when Izzy got sober very well.

There's other documentation out there, too, if you're of a mind to go hunting.  This was just the easiest to pull up.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

So how old where all the band members when the split happened and all this future touring for the UYI albums came out 26-31 years old roughly?

I am 36 now and I can tell you 10 years ago is a lot different than now.   How can you blame anyone for anything when they are that young.   Especially debating the actions of these young adults, 30 years later.

People look back at things like this band was some kind of experience group of adults, who had bee serious pros for many years.......    Its the complete opposite really

They were a bunch of kids pretty much, most of them were abusing substances, they where living together, playing local clubs, not much more than a high school education for most......

Then in a couple of years they are in the 20s, the biggest band in the world with more money than anyone!!!!    

They were still just a bunch of very young adults when they broke up..

I am sure Izzy is a lot different now, just like most people are 30 years later

Is he offended?  Or does he just feel like he's setting the record straight.

Again, I go to Axl's quote and apply Gypsy's interpretation to it.  I think this is Izzy being Izzy. 

I have to say, a day later, I'm finding that tweet pretty uncharacteristic of Izzy.  He must've been stewing over this for a while now to hear Axl's (relatively benign) comments and go off the deepend to launch that tweet out there.  Touch of regret perhaps?

He's always struck me as pretty laid back.  That message...didn't seem like a dude trying to set the record straight for the fans.  He seemed straight up pissed.

I agree.  Seemed pissed.

But as has already been pointed out several times already, Izzy and the band put aside their differences for him to fill in for Gilby in 1993.  And as recently as 2012, Izzy played with GNR in a guesting role.

So there is a history of at the very least, Axl n' Izzy being able to put their differences aside and work together again.... and again... and hopefully again in the near future.

I can get why Izzy didn't want to tour any more.   No big deal, hire a touring rhythm player to play Izzys stuff, Izzy can play the odd show

But

What I cant get is, why would Izzy leave the partnership of the band?   That's just crazy.  He quit, left, he wasn't fired.

Similar example is with The Rolling Stones. there base player Bill stopped touring years and years ago.  But, he stayed in the band and was part of the partnership up until just recently.....

I really think Izzy quit everything because he thought the band was going to spend was to much money/loose money and he didn't want anything to do with it.....    Again just a kid making choices

Pretty bummed reading izzy's tweet, I think Axl will react to it in a guns show.. or maybe he'll come out and respond with a statement. I remember his interview with trunk back in 06 that there's some things that need to be shut down so that's why I think there will be a response of some kind but sucks that there seems to be bad blood between them.

Because the person in question has done literally NOTHING on the size and scale of what you're proposing SINCE then.

So what else do you have?

You're proposing that they "trust" that he's changed in the past 25 years. With no actual evidence to the contrary. To be honest, Bacon, I say that's naive.

Because I knew folks in high school who are exactly the same 30 years later.  And I know folks who are radically different.  And the % aren't as lopsided as you'd think they'd be. ;) Trust is a hard case to make, given the evidence on the table.

Especially when coupled with how MOMUNMENTALLY important this tour was to GnR, how much money was at stake, and how little bad PR this tour could have withstood. They turned a house of cards into a fucking skyscraper, but if Izzy had signed on, and then quit just before, or even after half a dozen shows (you saw the press about bad attendance?!)....can you imagine the blowback?

Friendship is friendship and business is business.

And from Izzy's side....you know you're in. You know you could commit 100% and do every date and damn it would be fun to be back with those guys, yucking it up, righting the wrongs of mispent youth and debauchery, and putting to bed that little "what if" that might live in your soul.

But they come to you, and you feel disrespected because they're offering you "less".  And you're worth it.  You made that material, you worked your ass off for years, and beared your soul for these guys.  And now they don't seem to trust you and want contingencies, either with you as a guest or by reserving some ducats to, the gall, pay for your replacement if you flake out. As if.

Look, they're both right.  I know people want black and white.  I just don't see it.  They're both in the right, here.

Guns isn't in a position to take on what they see is a risky bet, at full price.

Izzy doesn't see the risk and feels he's entitled to a full share (whatever that is).

Fair enough.  We'll try again next tour.

Ha, I thought the same thing!  'Loot' mean stolen money, not a good way to refer to the hard-earned $$ fans shell out for these pricey tix.  

I'm not saying he's not.

But sometimes 140 characters of forced brevity adds context not intended.

And maybe he is a little pissed, and has a tinge of regret.  I think Izzy has some "what if" left in him, given the way he left.  And I think, knowing his zen nature, he'd like to find a way to purge it.

If that's so, I hope he gets the opportunity.  I honestly think, once this thing gets rolling, if it sustains itself, they'll have more room to be a little "nicer" in the splits going forward.  That risk, even if it blew up in them, would cause less damage.

I think Axl has commented (and the quote is earlier in the thread) that the reason the Izzy guest spots worked so well is that, if he shows up..GREAT! If not, the show goes on without him and they're fine.  They're not really depending on him.

I think that speaks volumes about Axl's mind set when it comes to Izzy.   He loves him, loves playing with him, but doesn't see him as being someone to rely on, night in and night out.

I'm hopeful too. My feelings are that the biggest shame in this is how Axl and to a lesser extent Slash & Duff may feel attacked & embarrassed by this, making future collaborations a bit more difficult to put together.  Could care less about what's "fair" here.  We're so removed from the financial dynanics of a big machine like Guns N' Roses, it's damn near impossible to know what could be construed as "fair pay" within that circle.

I think he was getting paranoid about band liability from things like the whole St. Louis and Montreal ordeals.   So he cut off his risk, but seems to not understand he cut off future rewards too.  

You are right, there is zero proof of anything suggesting that Izzy has changed or anything.  I am just using life examples that most people change something after 30 years.  30 years ago, I loved to play marbles in sandlots haha

Izzy really doesn't have a choice though about anything.....  Other than if the band guns n roses asks him to play, he could say yes or no

I've wondered that myself.  If, god willing, there is a next tour in a 2019 or so, does Axl still get a bigger share?

I would think Slash and Duff, after coming off an obscenely successful world tour of stadiums can easily make the argument that doesn't happen without them.  And all they'll need do is compare the venues played and receipts generated in 2016-17 to the venues and receipts from 2012-14.  I'm not sure what Axl's counterargument might be there.

I doubt he had a choice, contractually speaking.  If he wasn't going to fulfill the duties outlined in the contract, he had to quit the partnership.  And the other members weren't willing to modify it (or ignore the pieces of it) to keep him in.  IE: You can't just do the stuff you like while we're all doing pieces we don't like, while we're also paying someone else to play your parts during live shows out of the partnerships funds".  It would likely be material breech of contract (and the vid no shows alone might have constituted that, IDK having never seen the original partnership agreements) and they'd have kicked him out.  Probably better to quit so you can engineer better terms and transition of royalties, etc.

Yep I think this is totally what happened. 

We all once heard "not in this lifetime" and look where we are.

This little dust up seems minor in comparison. ;)

Again back to who is actually getting what......

Slash and Duff, if getting less, but don't have to worry about paying any band member or other fees may be very happy with this arrangement...   The goose is laying the eggs, why kick it

I don't think it totally out of the realm of possibility that Izzy made the judgment in 1991 that there wouldn't be a Guns N' Roses in 5 years.

And really, was he wrong?

I think a lot, a lot, a lot depends on what the actual truth of the financials is now (esp who is covering Reese, Dizzy, Richard and Franks compensation), and what they create together going forward.

If there is a new album, I think everything gets turned on its ear.  Because if Axl, and Slash, and Duff, and Richard and Frank and Dizzy and Melissa have all contributed to that albums material, in terms of writing and performing...suddenly this all gets a little more homogenized, IMHO.

My gut feeling is, if the band becomes a functioning creative entity, things start to even out (at least for the big 3 players) more. 

If they remain a touring act working off their existing catalog, I think it stays pretty much the same way it is now, whatever that is, and pending more Adler/Izzy involvment (which I think would change things up a bit, too).

But who knows?

The new album bit is a good point.  If within the next year or so we get new music featuring all the members we see on stage now, it certainly helps legitimize the current lineup a bit.  Not they need help selling tickets.

If Guns don't trust Izzy with touring full time of course they should not let him in on the deal at all. I just think it's a shame they can't come to terms on the money if he indeed was offered in on full time touring. I don't know how much he was offered and I don't know how much he wanted. I brought up the old interviews whith Izzy and Axl because I do think it's silly to be getting paid less than you would if you had a different coreography on stage, if that was the case then (and now?) It's a rock band were sincere prescene is vital not dancing around like Britney Spears is n't it?

There should be enough millions for everone! Wouldn''t be nice if this took a Peter Criss turn. Hope they still can work it out in some way.

I do would be surprised if Izzy was interested in full time touring. He come's off as much more of some one who doesn't like the lime light, big stages and so on. But when and if he is there, that would be really cool and should get equal pay considering his contribution to the song catalouge.

Richard, Dizzy and Frank have already wrote music on existing GNR albums.     Axl/GNR toured the past decade, with band members that wrote and recorded music for guns.

I think it has been set already.  It seems to work.....    Players were previously on salary, then I think they moved to a per performance deal....   If they are so lucky to get a writing credit on a GUNs album featuring Axl, Slash and Duff.   The royalties off that would be enough compensation

Dizzy is the only one of those 3 with a writing credit on CD, I think.

The other two guys have performance credits...but that's a different animal.

I havmt looked for a while, but you are probably right

However the makers of CD did tour with Axl and the band......    So this has been done before.   

II would love to see Melissa hold the band for ransom, after she writes the #1 selling rock song of the past 20 years.   It will be called.  Lets Go Jays Lets Go!!!!!!!!

It's interesting you bring that up because that same thing happened in Depeche Mode when Alan Wilder left in 1995 and thought the band wouldn't survive without him.  Look where they are now. 

So, off the Izzy topic....I just rewatched the interview.

Axls comments on the Slash dinner, and some of his other comments in that vein, really put some of the OTHER band members comments, in an interesting perspective.

It explains why certain members were talking about exciting things coming.

It explains why the "seriously investigating things in that regard" changed so quickly after the 2014 Vegas shows.

It explains Tommy's comments about "leaving it all in Vegas" and puts his comments after leaving in even more perspective than the reunion had til now.

It all sort of fits nicely....

Assuming that was his calculation, which I doubt, he was right until he was wrong, otherwise, what is he looking to be equal partners of now?  

Yep, with Axl also sending out those CD plaques as well....

With that and all the rumblings going on during the Vegas shows, its sorta like he was closing the CD era chapter.  I really think he was planning on moving on to this era...

I also get the feeling he never thought the boys would be keen on playing the CD material and didn't expect to be playing it live again, for a while.  That's why he has brought it up twice now in interviews that the boys went above and beyond to learn the material on there own.  He seems happy and surprised each time he brings this up

Yeah, that was telling.

And remember, people were wondering if he was just hanging it up entirely.  But it sure seemed like the end of something.

Yeah, when they posted that "I ain't going anywhere!" pic of Axl, they sure weren't kidding.  :hihi:

Uh huh.  The wastoids known as Slash and Duff were saying that?

In 1991, Izzy Stradlin was the only one sane or sober enough to realize how bad the GNR scene had really become.  The riots, the drug use, the late starts, Axl's no-shows..... Izzy cited all these reasons back in the 1990s as reasons why he quit and I can't blame him.

Should Izzy have had the "foresight" -- as some here suggest -- to know what quitting may cost him in the future?  Hell no.  When you're drowning in an abyss of toxins that could actually kill you in an instant at any given moment, you're not going to spend time debating whether or not to continue on.  You're going to escape by the skin of your ass.

Looking back, we're all damn lucky that certain band members and audiences themselves are still alive after the GNR tours of the 1990s.  That was Izzy was fearing then, and I can fully understand it.

Having said that....

As far as Izzy's participation today, I will say that it's obvious he isn't a huge draw as a member of Guns N Roses.  Unfortunately for him, the year is 2016, not 1986.  He doesn't hold the same appeal business wise or commercially as he did when GNR was just five urchins living under the street.  Izzy hasn't toured a regular schedule in 25 years so it's not unreasonable to wonder whether he could handle it -- and handling a world tour from start to finish every single night is exactly what would be required of him if he expected to be paid even close to equally of an Axl, a Slash, or a Duff.

Steven Adler joined GNR for those recent guests spots and I am sure he didn't complain about the money.  He was happy to be playing with GNR again, and the audiences were all thrilled to see him.  He jived very well with Axl, Slash, and Duff onstage.  That could definitely be Izzy too if they all could come to terms.  I'd love to see it -- all five originals onstage simultaneously would be an amazing sight!

Regarding Izzy's "bullshit" cry -- I doubt that closes the door forever.  The other four original members have played together this past summer, and that would never have happened if they all hadn't been incredibly forgiving towards each other for shit they've ALL said about each other in the past.

He did tour with GN'R through Europe in 2006..it's a shame that the guy who has been coolest with Axl over the last decade is now the outcast.

It does seem like Richard was never in doubt over his involvement in the band.

And Richard was a cheap price also.

He played shows with the band in 2006. He didn't do the whole European tour or full shows...

It was still amazing to see him there though.




/jarmo

Definitely- was great to see him, but it felt a lot like a 'bonus' to me at the time rather than anything more. I got the impression the only reason Izzy was there was because he wanted to be, for a few songs, on certain nights.

On another note- it's was always under the impression that Izzy left due to his drug use. Is there not a story in one of the books about his parents coming and basically taking him home and off the road to be cared for? I'm sure this is in one of the autobiography books. I'll go through them and have a look for the bit, unless anyone else remembers this?

It's bad when people do things because they want to?  ???

 : ok: I agree. Also Pilfrek, you made a lot of good posts in this thread!

Will someone please remind me what the "CD plaques" were?  Thanks.

Andrew

Huh? No one is saying it was bad!

I'm assuming they were talking about the platinum awards for Chinese Democracy.



/jarmo

Izzy apparently responded to the interview that he isn't involved because they didn't want to split the money equally.

http://www.guitarworld.com/artist-news/izzy-stradlin-gnr-reunion-they-didnt-want-split-loot-equally/29783

I just want to address this little bit, because I'm not sure who it's directed at.  I don't see ANYONE suggesting he should have had the "foresight" to predict anything.  Nor, really, do I see anyone saying that Izzy shouldn't have done what he did.  If that's what he thought would make him happy and keep him safe, as I've said over and over, then he did what he should have done.

It's not about FORESIGHT, at all...it's more about hindsight.  What happened, happened. For better or worse.  And expecting everyone to ignore it, now, is a little unrealistic.

I have said he was smart for, quitting the touring aspect of things.  It didn't work for him.

I think it was a bad move to quit the band and the guns partnership. 

Some have said he may not have had a choice (legally) and that it may have worked out in his favor to take a good buy out deal, than fight anything in court.   

But....  Nobody knows this as fact, just speculation.

I for one think he quit because of the money.  I honestly think he thought the band was going to go broke, with lawsuits, late fees, fines, video costs, travel costs, etc.   I think he thought there was more money in it for him to cut ties with the band.  Take his royalties (which are huge) and have zero responsibility for anything to do with the band.

Its fine that he did that, it worked for him....  I don't think it turned out to be the smartest move though overall.

Without getting in to details, we really have no idea why everybody left at different times. All their stories change as time goes on....whatever reason fits the moment seems to be the case. The easy out is to always blame Axl. The reality is way more complex. 5 very different guys with different life experiences.

All I know is that without Axl, you may have never known who these guys are. You can't replicate singers like that. You can replicate drummers and guitar players. A truly great charismatic singer is extremely hard to find. Axl makes it with or without them....maybe not to this extent but somewhere in the ballpark. Just my 2.

Exactly, nobody's expecting for him to have been clairvoyant, but it's perfectly legit to expect that he understand NOW the consequences of his decision from back then.  And not all those consequences are bad.  Had he stayed in a situation that he clearly felt was unhealthy for him, there's a good bet that he would have relapsed to his heavy hardcore drug use of the 80s, which would not have ended well.  Like you said, he made the decision, take the better and the worse.  Anyway, I just hope he decides to get his ass onstage.   

I'm sure Ron Wood gets paid the same as Mick Jagger.  ::)

I love Izzy, but give me a break. something clearly pissed him off about the reunion, but based on Izzy's life since quitting guns, I don't think he was 100% into a reunion tour. my guess is that he listened to some potential proposals, and since they were not exactly to his expectations (which are unreasonable if he is expecting an equal split), he decided not to get involved. probably a very easy decision for someone that appears to enjoy life out of the spotlight.

Oh the drama.. kinda funny to see some overreactions.

It didnt bother me at all what Izzy said. He didnt think it was fair, the band didnt think his offer was fair. Fair enough. :P

Im kinda lost here, didnt follow the band as close back then. Could you elaborate on those comments?

I remember Izzy also played YCBM at the Joint in Vegas, I think it was 2014 but I don't remember the exact date. But I do remember seeing him at the Joint with GNR.

I think that was 2012 because Duff was the one who joined for a show in 2014 Vegas

You could be right and 2012 occurred to me after I posted. But in any event, the point still remains that Izzy played with GNR and was introduced as a "friend" in the not-so-distant past.

When further asked if he would ever consider joining Guns N' Roses in the future, Izzy said, "Not in this lifetime."

Both sides have valid points and Axl was as diplomatic as ever in how he addressed the question. I think Izzy may be upset Because he overplayed his hand and now looking at the success of the tour and not being a part of it has got to be a gut punch in retrospect.

Additionally, even if the money offered was less than what he expected, I'm sure he was going to make off better than sitting at home and missing out on this opportunity, which would have also helped re-ignite his solo career and album sales with his name back in the spotlight. This was a big opportunity missed, and unfortunately he miscalculated.

I don't hold anything against him when he left back in 91, because it basically came down to getting away from surrounding himself with drugs which could have cost him his life. That was really the best decision for him at the time.

Although we are not familiar with details of their negotiations Its pretty clear at this stage Axl is calling the shots and this not 1986 where all 5 members probably had equal share in money and input in what GnR was doing. I would assume Axl would have kept Richard on board and had Izzy as the third guitarist and likely a more permanent role as opposed to Steven who was probably the biggest risk.

I agree with other posters that Axl and perhaps Slash and Duff may have had concerns of Izzy wanting to bail at some point, but I don't think it strictly because of when he left in the 90s. Something that has not been mentioned yet is when Velvet Revolver started in the early stages Izzy was rumored to have been jamming and thinking of joining them, but then changed his mind,  because he did not want to deal with the touring and everything else that comes along with it. Additionally, Izzy has not really toured like Slash and Duff after exiting GnR, which likely adds to their concerns, whereas Slash and Duff have been touring with Loaded, VR, and Slash's solo projects for years. Even though axl and slash and duff had a bigger fallout axl must recognize these guys got their shit together and are reliable when it comes to touring at this stage in their career.

It would have been awesome to see Izzy on stage with GnR. Hopefully this does not close the door and they can work something out in the future, because it would be great for the fans who want to see him. I believe he would be an even greater asset in rejoining for the purposes of he songwriting contributions which are simply undeniable. I think we would critical component in coloborating in the writing process with axl and would love to see what they would come up with at this stage of their career together with slash and duff.

The lyrics to Izzy's new single F.P. Money (with Matt Sorum on drums) may give some insight in his way of thinking. Damn Shame Guns don't record this in Gnr style, with different lyrics maybe.

They can fight about it, money, some bag of gold.
They can fight about it, money, the big wheels roll.
And I'm taking the long way home today.

Really got no worries either way.
Cuttin' deals, shakin' hands,
hopin' it feels, open plans.
They can fight about it, money, it's just a bag of gold.
They can fight about it, money, feel the big wheels roll.
And I'm taking the long way home today.
Really in no hurry either way.
Open fields, open planes, open gates, open lands, open space, open sky, open mind, open race.
They can fight about it, money, it's a bag of gold.
They can fight about it, money, the story goes.

Hope they figure it out. Love Richard, but would love to see Izzy.

Hudson- great post. I was bout to mention the VR part as well. Izzy can't be trusted when it comes to committing for a tour. Simple as that. Moving right along...

I'm talking about the interview, and sort of matching it up with what happened with the  2014-2015 dribs and drabs of information and band member comments, after the Vegas shows.

You had people like Frank and Richard who were saying more optimistic and hopeful things in interviews, while you had sort of direct opposite type comments coming from Ron, Tommy, and, to a lesser extent, DJ (who just appeared to be out of the loop). 

It sort of all makes sense, now, given the timeline Axl sort of laid out in relation to his meeting with Slash. :)

It just creates a more concrete timeline, and a lot of the stuff that was a bit confusing at the time, now makes a lot more sense.

Tommy had to have known what was going on.....funny how the last encore cover at the end of the residency was Tommy singing "You Can't Always Get What You Want"....

I love izzy and all he contributed to the creation of GNR and he certainly has the ability to write songs. With that said why do people act like if this group of guys whether its Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard and the rest couldn't write  songs just as great as the old ones. Unfortunately we only have 1 album of material that was written after izzy left and lets be honest im sure there is a large group of "GNR Fans" who just were not going to give the credit Chinese Democracy deserved just based on who played on the album. If Axl wants to record with this group I have no doubt they could put together an awesome album.

Ron leaves
DJ leaves
Tommy leaves.

Yet on here some people where still so spiteful claiming that the band was fine and will regroup when there is something to regroup for

Well not so much the case.  And when they did regroup they switched one keyboard player for a girl with zero explanation.  Ahhhh the world of guns is something

They did regroup. April 1st, 2016.

A bunch of fans were convinced the band was done in 2014 and nothing was gonna happen in a long time. Others weren't.



/jarmo

I was convinced this sorta reunion was going to happen back in 2014

It's a shame this Izzy thing has brought some negativity. Now we know why there's been zero press. Not to rock the boat.

I understand, thanks. Didnt read/see many interviews, but Im interested to catchup what Richard said back then because I remember something about recording stuff back from when Slash was still in the band.

You're right. Why do u think he started a twitter account? Just to have some kind of spotlight during gnr reunion. Crybaby. I thought he was a boss. He's just sad.

Ironically the last guy from the Appetite line up you would expect to bitch about money is Izzy. Izzy was the one member who left the band at its peak when they were starting to rake in boat loads of cash during the Illusion tour. This was a ballsy move, because he really walked away from a shitload of money at this point.

One of the reasons he said he left was for health reasons, which I agree outweighs money, and the way these guys were abusing drugs anything could have happened and luckily it did not. However, the other reason is that he said the band was getting too big for him and that was something that did not interest him. If I am not mistaken when he walked away at this point, it was the moment he relinquished his partnership with GnR. Hence the reason the remaining partnership belongs to only Axl, Slash, and Duff, since Izzy quit and Steven was fired.

Therefore, he voluntarily walked away from that cash cow, and never came back. I would have to imagine after Slash and Duff quit and Axl was scrambling to hire new players, Izzy would have been more than welcome to rejoin Axl. Izzy has had the longest relationship with Axl, and I am sure Axl would have appreciated having him back in the band for his support and would have been a huge contributor in the writing process, which would have taken a lot of pressure off Axl.

It would have also maintained some of the legitimacy of the band to some of the fans and record label executives, in the sense that GnR would have had Axl and Izzy who where responsible for writing the bulk of the music to this point. In doing so, Izzy could have capitalized on this situation and maybe brought back into the partnership or received a bigger pay day. From what we know, he was also healthy and off drugs, which seems like timing was perfect. However, from what has been written, I do not recall Izzy ever being involved in the CD recording process at any point. I know Axl was moving in a new musical direction, but you have too think with the amount of musicians that he allowed into the mix, that he would not have shut the door to Izzy.

As I said before, at this point Axl has the last say on who is in, on who is out, and what goes down in the GnR world. Therefore he is going to get biggest cut, and is probably expected by everyone. Again if this were 1986, I can see why other members would have issues in how the money is split up and their input into musical direction, etc.

With that said, Slash is getting divorced in California and is going to have to pay Perla a pretty penny especially since he has 2 kids. I am sure after Axl, Slash is probably the guy generating the most revenue, but will take a hit because of the divorce, which leads me to believe he has financial motivation in this reunion, which I have zero problem with.

Duff is married with two daughters, getting close to college age and would probably want them to go to college considering he himself went back to school to get his finance degree and college is very expensive these days. Duff has many other business ventures, has a finance degree, and is probably just as motivated by money at this stage in his career as he has indicated, he blew a lot of money back in they day when they were kids and were not the most fiscally responsible with their money. Duff now has a family to think about now and probably wants to also capitalize on this opportunity for him and his family and not squander it away because he may potentially receive a smaller cut than Axl after not being in the band after all these years. Again no issue with his financial motivation to participate.

Even Steven has not complained, who sued GnR for money, (when he was fired) and who was only offered from what we know a limited roll and probably got paid peanuts compared to everyone else. We all know Steven has been dreaming to rejoin the band and I could have seen him taking issue with his limited roll in only playing two songs at a handful of shows and complaining about it, especially since he has been the most vocal and not politically correct in the past. However, he has been exemplary thus far, and you have to give credit where credit is due. Additionally, he has probably made the least money to this point and spent the most money with all his past drug issues.

On a side note, I would have liked to see more of Steven, perhaps playing all the Appetite songs or at least a few more songs, maybe with a drum solo since Frank has not done any drum solos on the tour. I mean they have used 3-4 guitarists in the past, and two 2-3 keyboardist (when Axl plays piano), might as well throw in two drummers at same time, which is about the only thing they have not tried.

With that said, if Slash and Duff who were on every album besides CD, came out in all the videos, did a ton of press back in the day (which Izzy rarely did), completed the tours until the break up, and agreed to take a lower cut to do the reunion, I do not understand what Izzy thought his leverage was in getting an equal shared. The only realistic scenario I may be on his side, is if we would be talking about him rejoining band to be involved in writing process, which deals with publishing rights and that is a whole different animal, but not touring. I think he did not see the big picture and the potential opportunity going forward even if he took less now, he could have set himself up to make a ton in the future.

As other members have previously mentioned, the hardcore fans do want to see Izzy back on stage with Axl, Slash, Duff, and Steven, but for the majority of the people at the shows they really only know Axl, Slash and maybe Duff. I would even venture to say that Steven may be more popular or recognizable than Izzy. When you look at the old videos for some reason Steven always got a lot of camera time and had good stage presence for a drummer, whereas Izzy kind of blended in on stage and was very low key. Which unfortunately for him, translates into Izzy not being a huge factor for touring purposes because he never had the stage presence or was as recognized as the other members.

Izzy seems perfectly content to stay at home and put out albums via iTunes.  If he was chasing $$, he would be out there on the state fair circuit every summer. 
I thinks it?s safe to say that during his time in GnR, Izzy made Fuck You Money.  What?s the point of having fuck you money if it doesn?t afford you the opportunity to say fuck you, to a perceived bad deal. 

I don?t think Izzy miscalculated anything. It doesn?t sound like he?s ?bitching? about anything to me.
Doesn?t sound like he regrets quitting in the first place, or being left out of this ?reunion?.

More like if he was going to be involved, it was going to be as an equal, as it was when GN?R was at their peak, and if not, thanks but no thanks.
I can see how that scenario would be easier said than done to make happen, maybe impossible, but sounds like that?s what would have enticed him to come back.

If Izzy was solely motivated by money as some seem to suggest, he probably would have signed on in whatever capacity that was offered to take part in one of the most successful tours in recent memory.
Or been out on the road with his own band at some point over the past decade plus, as that is where the money is these days.

Seems content doing what he does.

The shows in Vegas were incredible.
I went hoping Izzy and Steven would be involved, but knowing full well it was most likely not going to happen.
Still an amazing performance and experience that I in no way regret.

If Steven and Izzy were involved, I would have been at both shows in Foxboro, but now knowing they wouldn?t be, paying top dollar to see yet another incarnation of not quite Guns N? Roses in a stadium setting didn?t much appeal to me. Vegas was amazing, I?ll never forget it, but once was enough.

I?m sure they all have their reasons for why they are/aren?t involved, and I respect them, but would like to think Izzy would have been involved if it were a true reunion.
It?s not difficult to understand how the rumored offer of guest appearances would be insulting to someone as instrumental to the bands success as Izzy was/is.

Interesting logic. So now that you've seen them in Las Vegas, you're all set for life?
Yes, the venues were bigger this summer, but the shows were better than in April.... :)




/jarmo

None of us should pretend to know how complex this situation is or isnt.

Axl gave a watered down response in the interview. Izzy gave a 120 character tweet.

We can all speculate as much as we like... and throw scenarios up... everyone can have an opinion and that is fine, but none of us know the truth about what went on in those meetings, no one knows what was asked for by izzy, no-one knows what was offered by guns.. and no one knows how far apart they were in both...

condemning either side at this point is silly.

It seems pretty clear that this tour is about money, and Izzy's non participation is about money. And fair enough, that's just the way it is when a band reaches the 'reunite and play the hits' phase of their career. With the possible exception of Steven, I highly doubt anyone would be up there on stage for free or a nominal fee.

Money is the reason why Izzys not in, so Izzys is all about money and not about GNR...

It's hard to say, as his tweet really didn't say much.  It does elude to the offer (whatever it was) being for a full time gig with the band, as he can't be dumb/crazy enough to want equal pay for a guest slot. 

If the offer was, in fact, for a full time gig in GNR then I have to believe he still would have made really good money.  It's disappointing that his ego would hold him back from joining on this already long, long past due reunion tour.  I love Izzy, but I can definitely understand why the big 3 would be getting more from this, as they are seasoned touring pros who are more iconic to the Guns N' Roses image and legacy.  I know, I know, look at the song creds and all that. More to it than that I'm afraid on the business side of things.

For example, if you think that if Mick Taylor re-joined The Stones tomorrow that he'd suddenly start making as much as Jagger/Richards/Watts then I have a bridge to sell you.  Same thing with Izzy rejoining Guns.

I also believe that Richard (or perhaps DJ if we're to believe what he said about Axl wanting him for this tour) was ALWAYS going to be in the lineup, Izzy or no Izzy, to "fill in" the sound.  That also couldn't have sat particularly well with Izzy, as it basically shows that he couldn't exactly handle the position of rhythm guitarist on his own in 2016, after taking a quarter of a century break from from playing many of these songs live, say nothing of the Chinese Democracy songs.  This would have likely solidified his position as "support" under Axl, Slash & Duff for a tour like this.  Lotsa things in play here that likely turned the old grapes sour.

When did Izzy say he wanted the same pay as Axl, Duff or Slash?  For all we know they offered him 10 000 a show and he didn't like that.  Perhaps his number was 100 000 a show (his idea of his share of the loot)   I love assuming things, just as much as anyone else, it just seems people assume things here waaaaaaaaaaay one sided at times

Izzy is not part of GNR.  He has set a value on what his services would cost for the current band.  If both sides cant come to a deal, it is what it is.  Nobody is doing anything wrong

I guess people get that impression from the wording of his Tweet: They didn't want to split the loot equally . Simple as that . Moving right along......... I highlighted the word that might give people that impression....

One of the meanings of said word is as follows:
In amounts or parts that are the same in size.
"the money can be divided equally between you"

You're welcome. :)



/jarmo

haha, I can see how people could draw that assumption then

I am giving him the benefit out the doubt

Perhaps he was talking about the pay Richard gets for each show.  Perhaps he was offered less than Richard and just wanted a equal share.......   Perhaps....