Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I missed that tone.  The band as whole sounds electrifying.  Axl is a trooper with his injury.  Couldn't be happier  to see the best fucking band in the world strut.   This tour is going to rock.  #GnFnR

I think his tone is fenomenal. I was afraid it would sound too much like the Illusions tour (didn't like that, I don't even like to listen to Live Era because of that), but it really blew me away.

Dunno if he makes *everything* better, but I do like what he comes up to. And I much prefer him taking chances with the Chinese material and making his own spin.

Slash is the reason the reviews are so unreal. Without slash, axl has sounded great and never got any love or much respect.  Add slash, and GNR are top of the world.
Chinese songs with slash are recognized in an entirely different way.
It's all better because of slash from the mental point.
However, slash plays his own stuff and is basically the most recognizable guitarist in the last 35 years.  This is all a dream.

Axl deserves to be viewed for his greatness again, but it took slash to remind people.

It just feels and sounds like Guns N Roses again. The rest of the guys are lucky in that their instruments can be replaced and will always sound as good as they always did. Axl did a great job, his voice is class but it will never be as amazing as it was in the early days. Wear and tear on the vocal chords makes it harder to sound like he used to but still a great job! Well done Axl and good on The Foo Fighters lending Dave's throne. Hoping to hear Don't Damn Me on this tour

No Slash does not make everything better one example is the TIl solo he maked worse.


Is great to have him back trought.  : ok:

This video illustrates everything that was great about GnR back in the day. The voice, the sound, the attitude http://youtu.be/Ov4zNwkmo_Y

Funny how for the better part of the last fifteen years people have been bashing Slash and the classic lineup on this very forum and now suddenly he "makes everything better"?  :rofl:

I'm not complaining though. I have nothing against Ashba, Bumble, or Buckethead and even though I used to think Fincks attempts on Slash's solos were mostly disastrous, he pulled off some great stuff on the Chinese Democracy album. But let's face it, Axl and Slash are like Jagger and Richards or Perry and Tyler. Theyre better together than they are separately. That's just the way it is.

😂👍

Slash makes everything magic...Axl and Slash make everything big and phenomenal...

Slash has made  songs from CD much better and  has taken those songs to another level! 

Slash rocked!!  : ok:

Bucket Head maked the Nightrain outro his own and took to the outro to another level .

I dunno about Slash.. in fact he downgrade the TIL solo.

I don't think so. It was clear that he'll have a different style than Robin. I'm fine with that.

I would imagine for Slash its still a little awkward to be back in the band again.  I never thought it would happen.  I've loved guns n roses since 1987.  Through the years and line up changes etc.  I would think at this point any of the former members from 1990 on are just that former members.  We have the core of guns n roses and maybe izzy will pop in at some point.  Steven who knows.  As far as others I wouldn't bet on it.  I think slash and Axl have a musical, and stage connection that few others ever get to.  (Jagger/Richards, Lennon/McCartney, etc...)does slash make it better, probably.  But look at Axl he seems so relaxed and happy.  Duff is duff a peacemaker and a great all around person.  I'm happy we've got this at least for now.  Who knows maybe it will be more or maybe more music at some point!  I never hated slash or duff I just always admired axl's attitude and his integrity. Here's to slash, Axl and duff....good luck and best wishes!  Dizzy, frank, Richard and Melissa will make the band that much better as well, we have the best version of guns n roses since 1993!

Id really love to have a proper soundboard recording to judge Slash's tone and his arrangement for the CD songs better. I understand he played Bumblefoot's rhythm guitar riffs on Chinese (during the verses) and Bucket leads at the ending, but I really couldnt hear that well in the recordings we have so far.

Its funny the same way some people always said a different approach "can never be better than original". It goes both ways, you know.. :P

I'm sorry, but  between Slash and Buckethead, who is known as an iconic guitarist??? I'm glad that Buckethead is gone!! A guy who wears a KFC bucket and sits in a chicken coop doesn't belong in a band like GNR.

So true!

 "Oh my God, Slash sounds so good"  "What a great job on This I Love"  "Slash makes everything sound so much better"  Not to mention positive concert reviews.  There is a difference, yes...but Buckethead, DJ, Ron, Robin, are all great musicians and never got the credit.  And Axl wasn't given credit either.  Now all of a sudden, everything is great.  NOBODY can tell me that Slash has and will make every song sound better.  Simply not true.  It's great to see both Axl and Slash together on stage again, but that doesn't mean everything necessarily sounds better.  There were/are songs the other guys played better.  Of course, it's early

Disagree. 

Other than the intro to Better, the song was performed better by the old guys in my opinion.  I also thought This I Love was performed much better in the past.

Don't let your love for Slash get in the way of your ears.  If it's not, than great...that's your opinion.  But it's hard for me to believe that doesn't play a part.  It happens with people and their love for Axl as well.

Draguns...who cares what someone wears or what they look like?  Is the music good or not?  Again, don't let your love for Slash get in the way of the music. 

We had the same discussion with Robins and Bucketheads versions of the old songs. It's all about personal taste, isn't it?

Agreed. But the one thing I feel IS true is that Axl and Slash have a musical chemistry that is (at least to me) way more interesting than the chemistry between Axl and Robin/Buckethead. Axl and Slash made songs like WTTJ, COMA, November Rain, Estranged and SCOM. I definitely acknowledge Buckethead's and Robin's skills and songwriting, but the chemistry between Axl's songwriting and Slash's is just 'one in a million'. Axl and Robin/Bucket never made songs that had a musical impact like the songs I just mentioned.

Agreed

Some people on here are getting too excited about slash been back ,Izzy was a more important member of the band and without him GnR would never have gotten half the level of success,the last band of GnR were extremely good players  particularly bumblefoot who gave them an extra dynamic that they never had.,however the gig last night sounded great especially Axl who got his voice back and f##ken nailed coma to the walls.Roll on Europe in the fall.

Lets hear Slash play Sorry... ;)

NOT too many CD tks ,most fans just wanna hear AFD and the illusion albums ,CD was a good album but a lot of the tunes don't work as well live.

Yeah, remember all those great songs Axl and Bumble wrote? Great memories man, Bumbles' killer solo's over Axl's songs can't compare to Coma, Civil War, SCOM, Estranged and November Rain. And all those amazing solo's Izzy played on the AFD and UYI tracks! Remember when Slash had to play most of Izzy's work on UYI b/c Izzy couldn't be bothered to show up to the studio? Yeah, those were the days man. I get you. Why is Slash even on that stage yo!

We can agree to disagree. I dislike Buckethead from the get go because he wasn't GNR to me. His looks and music didn't fit with GNR. There's a reason why he's a good solo artist, but isn't great to be in a prime time band. For me, this is GNR!

Some of Izzys contributions( from ultimate classic rock.)
Sweet Child O' Mine'

From: 'Appetite For Destruction' (1987)

No list of Guns ?N? Roses greatest songs, no matter the constraint, would be complete without the inclusion of their most enduring hit. As this track was more of an "all hands on deck affair," with Izzy reportedly mostly providing the chords, we?ll leave this one right here. ?Where do we go now??


9
'Double Talkin' Jive'

From: 'Use Your Illusion I' (1991)

Our next selection, buried in the middle of Use Your Illusion I, features a rare lead vocal turn by Stradlin. This in-your-face number retains more of the band's venomous Appetite-era attitude than many of the other songs on this album. We would hate to be whoever he's talking about with lyrics like, ?Double talking jive / Get the money motherf?er / 'Cause I got no more patience.?

Top 10 Guns N' Roses 'F? You' Songs


8
'You Ain't The First'

From: 'Use Your Illusion I' (1991)

Quite possibly the least Guns N? Roses-sounding song the band ever produced, this cut plays more like a boozy acoustic blues than the hard rock or heavy ballads the band were known for. Izzy and lead singer Axl Rose share double vocal duties, while Slash provides the mood-setting slide guitar work. It certainly works as an interesting turn and shows much range Stradlin brought to the band.


7
'Dust 'N' Bones'

From: 'Use Your Illusion I' (1991)

This classic and yet under-appreciated track features Izzy on lead vocal, with Axl providing high harmonies in the background. It?d be easy to call this song formulaic if it didn?t actually kick so much ass. From the signature Slash solo to the weird vocal nuances there?s something so perfectly Guns N? Roses about this song that we wish we could hear it on the radio more often.



6
'Out Ta Get Me'

From: 'Appetite For Destruction' (1987)

As with many songs on the band?s landmark debut, this song was reportedly written rather quickly, with credit split between Stradlin and Rose. The guitarist later spoke of the sometimes frustrating process of writing music with the headstrong lead singer. "He was a real nasty critic you know, so sometimes it was a lot of nitpicking in the music, trying to get stuff finished, but uh, I guess in the end it came out okay." Sure did!


5
'Don't Cry'

From: 'Use Your Illusion I' (1991)

Rejection is not a feeling many rock stars are used to experiencing, which is what makes this song especially notable. Co-written by Rose and Stradlin, the song is about a girl that at one time or another kicked both men to the curb. Two-fer! As Rose later related, the title came from something the woman in question told the singer after turning down his advances.


4
'Pretty Tied Up'

From: 'Use Your Illusion II' (1991)

This exotic-sounding Guns N? Roses composition was another track credited to Stradlin alone. Like other items on our list of Top 10 Izzy Stradlin Guns N? Roses Songs, 'Pretty Tied Up' demonstrates the sonic diversity that he brought into the group. In his autobiography, Slash recalled just how Stradlin managed to get the far-out sound that opens the song. "I remember that Izzy had taken a cymbal and a broomstick and some strings and had made a sitar out of it. Needless to say, Izzy was pretty f?ing high.?


3
'14 Years'

From: 'Use Your Illusion I' (1991)

Released in 1991 as the second song on Use Your Illusion II, the track is accepted to be about the relationship between Stradlin and Rose, who had known each other for ? wait for it ? 14 years by that point. While one might think that from the outset that it would be a celebration of friendship, the song seems to reveal a deeper, more conflicted history between the two men. As they share the chorus both men sing, ?But it's been 14 years of silence / It's been 14 years of pain / It's been 14 years that are gone forever / And I'll never have again.? Look for Izzy and Axl's line of wedding anniversary cards at your local Hallmark store soon!



2
'Mr. Brownstone'

From: 'Appetite For Destruction' (1987)

This song reportedly began as a collaboration between Izzy and Slash, while chilling at a former?s girlfriend?s house. The two started ironically riffing on their mutual disdain for heroin and addicts in general. ?We were sitting there complaining, as junkies do, about our dealers," Slash wrote in his autobiography. "It basically described a day in the life for us at the time. Izzy had a cool idea, he came up with the riff, and we started improvising the lyrics.? The most revealing line of the song comes in during the bridge: "I used to do a little, but a little wouldn't do / So the little got more and more / I just keep trying to get a little better / Said a little better than before


1
'Patience'

From: 'G N' R Lies' (1988)

It took a while to get to the top item on our list of Top 10 Izzy Stradlin Guns N? Roses Songs, but your patience is finally rewarded. Izzy?s magnus opus was released as the only single from the stopgap EP G N? R Lies. Credited to Stradlin alone, this song about failed relationships was the band?s third biggest single, reaching No. 4 on the Billboard Hot 100. The '80s were an era flooded with power ballads, but 'Patience' endures to this day because of its eclectic mixture of tender lyrics, countrified acoustic guitars and intricate song-structure. Oh and of course, who could deny the power of that instantly recognizable whistle intro?

That's a cool story which I've read a million times already. The thing is: it doesn't make Slash obsolete. Fuck yeah, Izzy wrote some of Guns' best songs. But without Slash and Axl on those songs they wouldn't be the classics they are today. I agree with you that Izzy being part of all this would make it even cooler, but saying that people are getting too hyped up about Slash being there b/c Izzy is more important to GnR's history is just plain dumb man. You get that, don't you?

Hats off to Slash he is worthy of his guitar hero status however all 5 original members should be on that stage to be glorified by the masses.but will make do with the current reincarnation.

In my opinion, the best chance of it happening will be at the MetLife show. That will be Slash's b-day and playing in the biggest market. It's either that or they'll have another surprise.

Slash was awesome and im so happy he's back but I don't like his take in the this I love solo... I loved the chemistry between him and Richard, Please tell me what that woman does?  Does she really do much?

The ONLY song Slash didn't make better, IMO, was Better.

Something seemed completely different about the Reunion's version of Better.

Maybe it was the feed I was watching, but I didn't catch any of the intro.

Any guitar experts around here? What was different?

As a long-time fan I asked myself after watching parts of the Vegas 1 show: "Could this be the best they've ever been (even with Axl in a cast)?" It's just the way that Slash and Axl riff of each other and his playing has swagger. "Double Talkin Jive" never sounded so tight, and drums are pure skin bashing. It's really starting to put the UYI years in perspective. Suddenly there was this next Van Halen (better than they are) or American Led Zeppelin and they became almost super heroes at a very young age and everyone wanted a cut and that tour went on forever. Have come to realize after hearing 'Coma' last night and 'Estranged' that parts of UYI are their Physical Graffiti. Let's hope they continue to set aside their differences for the greater good.

He hasn't downgraded anything... He's just improvising and as usual he will do better & better. Finck solo sucked, mainly because it's the easiest solo a guitar player can do: copy/past the main melody. Too easy, and his tone sucked too.  I could write that solo too.

I'm just as excited about the reunion as everyone else and the band sound amazing together but I'm surprised that so many people think Slash's TIL solo is better than the original... For me it lacks the emotion that was in the original solo and sounds like improvised noodling to my ears, I'm not saying it's awful but I find it rather generic. I actually preferred what Ashba did with it because he at least used the original solo as the template and then just added his own spin on it... Slash just plays something COMPLETELY different!

thank you. after watching TIL and better in youtube, he ruined it but its funny how everyone was giving it a positive feedback. i mean i get  it, people are just happy to see slash and axl play together and so am i but for funk sake  dont try to compliment him or any one if they are ruining one of the best solo in gnr old or new. just like how i always disliked robins take on his second solo for nov rain. that solo was just for slash to be played for me. same with til, its robins solo and slash can bend his back and make the solo 5 mins long wont change anything
thank you

I'm not a guitar expert, but let me answer this: they started the song with the rhythm instrumental of Bucket's solo (the first one, after the second chorus and before the heavy section of the song), with Slash playing some more tidbits here and there. It then mashed with the regular intro when Richard starts to play the original intro riff and Duff and Melissa sang the backing vocals.

Get a clue.

First, the "easiest solo" means shit. LALD and SCOM both have easy solos, so what? Second, it has some high bends that are not that easy to hit right, specially if you use a heavy string like Robin (and Slash) does. Just try to search on YouTube to see how many people got ir right. Third, it's not even a copy/past of the main melody, it only follows it occasionally - I will assume you just wanted to discredit the solo by saying such a false statement. Fourth: it's your opinion about tone, many people including myself disagree. And the "I could write the solo" is just more bullshit.

So, let me give you my opinion: I think you don't even know what you're talking about.

After hearing/watching this video.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceIIov7ptYc

..........I realize they changed the song. It's heavier.

I don't think it's heavier. Is just different. The original arrangement was heavy as fuck already. :)

Slash did Slash. I cannot understand why anyone would believe that he would play these songs in the style of someone else. Whether in your opinion he made it better or made it worse (or neither and he just did a good job), it is just an opinion and not a fact. I thought he did a great job on TIL. Not better or worse but he did it the Slash way and it worked.

"I'm not a guitar expert but..." followed by some really knowledgeable sounding stuff! Great response, I got a laugh out of the last line, it was built up to so perfectly.

I like the original til solo more but I love what they did with better and enjoy the new spin slash puts on the songs since I've heard the originals so many times.

Hahaha, but I am not. There's a lot of people here with way more guitar knowledge than me. : ok:

Yep.

You can't deny the vibe and feeling around everything right now is totally different.

It's amazing.  Never been so happy, about anything.

I think Slash didnt have much time to work properly on this Solos...he could just try emulating the originals but he is an icon and he feels he has to put his style on it....by the way I prefer Robins..TIL original solo is beautiful...dont let your fandon deny that!

That solo is probably the best thing Robin ever did in the band.  It's awesome.

Slash sent BBF, Bucket and Finck to fetch his top hat, cigarettes, and strippers last night as he reclaimed his position atop his guitar universe then proceeded to crush ?Better? and sign ?This I Love.?  Then, when they returned from their assignments, he said, ?Boys, TYVFM.  Ashba is waiting on the other side of town itching to sell you a pair of pants.?

NOBODY is saying Slash should play like someone else.  People are giving their opinions on who's version is better.

Slash's sound is something you just can't copy. And that's amazing.

But it's not just Slash that makes stuff better. I like how they have really cut down all the elements and gone "back to basics". At least last night the show was very consistent and they sounded brilliant! They did not sound like the classic GN'R and they did not sound like the CD era GN'R. They sounded like themselves and that is a perfect combination of everything!

I think it's basically this: To get to their best, Axl needs Slash and Slash needs Axl.

And I'm not saying this is just an Axl-Slash thing, the rest of the band are just as important and last night proved that this is the lineup. Richard & Slash combination works perfectly and so does Duff & Frank etc.

Great time to be a fan!

Slash's take on better, this I love will take time for me to enjoy as the original solo's are still fresh in my mind. but the main thing that makes everything sound cool and relevent is Duff's input, his backing vocals are just like Gnr dna. And thank f'n God for Periscope! My Saturday and Sunday mornings have been a blast here in the UK  ;)

Of course he does

There's a reason his and Duff's return has set the rock world on fire

Slash is one of the most respected guitar players alive - for a reason

I have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, CD will get the respect it deserves now that Slash is rocking the tunes live.

It's an interesting thought.

I would not want Slash to reproduce the solos on the 3 CD songs not for note. He is playing them in his style and they sound. I very much like what he's done for TIL. Rally makes it sound like it could have come from UYI albums.

Think everyone is realizing from these shows how much Slash was missed.

It once again sounds like the band we all became fans of.  It's glorious.

Maybe CD's time hasn't come yet after all.

I thought the Sonofabitch video of TIL was absolutely epic. Slash killed it....jaw dropping.  :o

Well said. I wish there was a 'thank you' thread - because all involved deserve a big one...Jarmo for the awesome site, Fernando for doing whatever he did to make the impossible happen, and Axl/Slash/Duff/Dizzy/Frank/Fortus/Melissa for kicking ass!

One thing Slash definitely makes better is the CD intro. IMO it has never sounded as good as at it has these 2 shows.  :smoking:

I like that the 1 minute instrumental intro is gone as well, jumps right into that mean riff.

one thing Ive noticed is how focused Slash is, and how smooth his playing is compared to Ashba and Former members. He's got really strong fingers and loose wrists that make his playing look effortless.

His This I Love started better last night than in the Friday IMHO. But then it got some noodling. Seems like he's just jamming around indeed.

Its a good, tight rocker without that dopey pretentious intro.

Its now sounding more like that 2001 version.  And I have no complaints about that.

I do agree his version of This I love needs work, he needs to stick to the melody, because it is a very distinct solo. Its not just energy poured out, it has a structure.

The Better solo sounded much better at the second night. Mainly because Slash played it with his own style. Robins guitar playing style is not suitable for him.

Duff singing the ''No one ever told me'' part fits the song perfectly, it always felt like it should've been sung by someone else. Im glad he sings it !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceIIov7ptYc

at the 4:17 mark I do think Slash does this little solo very well adding his own flavour.

When someone says that Slash ruined a song, or seemed lost, it sounds to me like they are basing that on expecting to hear what they have perceived as "the" solo or guitar part of the song; the established version, if you will. But hey, you are probably right and on a whole, I am reading this incorrectly.

I really enjoyed how Duff and Melissa's backing vocals sounded on Better.

I realise this is a joke but I'm surprised at people undermining Buckethead's guitar skills round here. I can only assume these people aren't that familiar with his solo work, the guy is a phenomenal guitarist, his image didn't suit GNR but there's no denying his talent, Axl sought him out for a reason.

Go and listen to 'Soothsayer' by Buckethead, Slash WOULD struggle playing parts of that I guarantee you.

Got to be honest I miss the old solo. Was probably my favorite along with the one on Sorry. I loved Ron's live backing vocals on this song as well.

Honestly an exact replication of the original would not have been right.
Slash's own take on it is both expected and professional
Cool stuff

Yes, but it's not about Bucket's solo work, it's about Guns N' Roses. I've said it before and I'll say it again: with Slash there's something you can't learn or copy. Buckethead was and is a mechanical player, Slash is all about the feeling and sould and playing from deep down inside.

I'm not denying Buckethead's skill, I'm just saying that listening to him play is (to me) like driving a new Benz. You can see that it's good, but it's no fun. It's good, but it just is there. Then it gets boring and gray.

Have you ever listened to Bucket's albums like "Colma" or "Electric Tears"? He is both technical skilled and emotional.

Yes, and I do like Colma.

But I can't really feel the emotion, I just think it is technically a great album with interesting atmosphere. But that's just me and arguing over guitarists is pretty much useless because in the end it always comes down to personal preference :) But that being said, I didn't find Bucket's work in GN'R that interesting or emotional. I preferred Richard and Finck during the CD era.

Edit. And now that Slash is back, I realise how much I've been missing THAT sound and THAT feeling in this band.

Slash has made GNR sound 1000 times better, Im sorry but he is on a level of his own. The CD era songs were great, Im not saying the previous band didnt play them good because they did but Slash rocked on them, the whole band did! Its only gonna get better! I especially liked Better, it was heavy!
Im still trying to adjust to Franks playing, he seems to excited at times and either plays to fast or does to many drum fills in songs like Estranged or Dont Cry.

Anyone notice the guitars with scratch plates on that Slash is playing, thought Slash didn't like them on his guitars? And has he played his green Anaconda one yet over the recent three shows?

Buckethead is a beast..a virtuoso!! The fastest guitar player GNR ever had...comparisons are simply out of question, they are very different guitar players!

This guy, Niko Slash.. He already have a cover of Slash's This I Love solo from April 8th. He really plays it well. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrpQ7P1d-k

I still prefer Robins version but Slashs one is awesome as well  :smoking:

^^^Amen, brother.  Nothing says Gn'R like being held hostage with a Bucket guitar lesson, right?  Vai, Malmsteen, Vaughan, Beck, Bucket...yawn.  I'd rather watch a guitar being manufactured than listen to one of those players bore me with a 30 minute guitar clinic every song.  Back to the subject at hand:  Slash sent BBF, Bucket and Finck to fetch his top hat, cigarettes, and strippers last night as he reclaimed his position atop his guitar universe then proceeded to crush ?Better? and sign ?This I Love.?  Then, when they returned from their assignments, he said, ?Boys, TYVFM.  Ashba is waiting on the other side of town itching to sell you a pair of pants.?

The only one in guns I have cared about over the past 20 years is Axl. Now with Duff and Slash I can care about guns as a band again. I saw them 2006 and 2010. It was good but now its pure magic.

Like I said before, I strongly disagree that he makes "everything" better.

But one of the things I thought he did AMAZING and way better than any previous lineup is Rocket Queen. I love the ending solo and he plays it like it's supposed to do. Also, I really loved the improvisation in the middle before the slide. Really amazing.

Slash's job with the ChiDem songs at the first show in Sin City was horrorous, but im happy to see he played them a lot better in the very next show  :beer: Check this out:

https://soundcloud.com/gnrbootlegs/guns-n-roses-slashs-this-i-love-guitar-solo-t-mobile-arena-las-vegas-nv-04092016?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook

It's good to see the immense majority of the GNR fans happy and united with his presence. This feeling will not last forever: once the ''comeback'' factor vanishes, he we will need to make some serious adjustmens to his playing IMO.

I  think its a good moment to be a GNR fan, but once the hype is gone, this band needs to focus on making new music and to start looking to a future with new things. I am not feeling right now that this is a nostalgic act like I feared, and that's a good thing.

To my eyes, GNR needs to do this stadium tour, then maybe go to Southamerica, and then go into the studio to (1) give life for once and for all to the never released music from the 1996-2006 era, (2) create new music with this lineup, (3) give WAY more protagonism to Richard, and with all these things this band is perfectly able to conquer the world again. We all knew GNR could counquer the world for a limited period of time just because of the ''reunion'' factor. This wont last long. GNR needs to be an active band, abandon the ''nostalgic'' path quickly, and bring new music.

To put in one line: GNR needs to think in the future. And something tells me this is what's going to happen.

That is absolutely true. And as you also stated, it feels like this is not just a nostalgia trip.

We just have to hope it's true and that they are working on something new or will start to work on in the near future. This lineup could produce some amazing stuff is my belief. And the combination of Slash and Axl pushing each other to the extreme has never failed when it comes to creating good music ;)

This shouldn't be a technical, stupid discussion. Slash belongs to Guns N' Roses, end of discussion.

With Slash (and Duff) again in the band, they are awesome, there is magic, you feel "our band" is back....it's Guns N' Roses again!!!!

Without him (and Duff), half of the world couldn't care less...without them being together, GN'R is of the same level like Velvet Revolver or Slash solo... together, they smash all other rock n' roll bands out there.

(and ofcourse he IS one of the best guitar players in the damn fucking world)

 :peace: :peace: :peace:

After watching slash on you tube, it is so clear that regardless of how great the slash replacements are, there is simply no guitarist in the world that is as famous as him, and his presence is almost like a fampouus superhero comic... His look, his sound, and his style are above all...
Slash flat out has made GNR the most fanous band in the world, and I do not see how anyone else can complete Axl more than him.

The entire thing is still surreal.

Slash undoubtedly adds a rawness and feel that has been missing since 1993.  Anyone doubting that, just doesn't understand what classic Guns sounded like live back then.  They are back, indeed.

Just remember that's a two way street.  Axl hasn't exactly been a slouch with making GNR the most famous band in the world.

One can argue that Axl has been successful in his quest to not only continue the legacy of GNR but also to evolve the band beyond AFD.

IMHO, Axl has been equally as successful, if not more, with the GNR name and the "replacements" than Slash and Duff and Matt have been in their combined collaboration and their "replacements" in VR and beyond.   

Maybe it took these 23 years for all parties involved to see and admit that THIS hybrid-GNR is at the very least the right direction the band should be heading.


Yes, Slash is, was and will always be iconic Slash.

Axl is, was and will always be Guns N' Roses!!!

All great points and insights!
However, it isn't Slash in and of himself that makes "things better." It is the magic and chemistry between Axl and him. The old adage, the "sum is greater than the parts" has never been more true than with Gnr.
No matter how great the music was with all of the other line ups, or how "tight" the band was, it could never create the "GNR magic." It was that "magic" that allowed them to become the biggest band in the world and take over the hard rock genre. Was it a good band, yes! Amazing! Better than anything out there! So, it had nothing to do with the sound and quality and chemistry of the other lineups.  However, the other lineups couldn't or were unable to recreate the power and spirit of GNR. Perhaps this was due to a lack of proper marketing, videos, and getting the "band's" image out into the world and social media so that it could permeate into the collective American conscience.
When you join the two larger than life icons of Axl and Slash-- the result is explosive.
No matter what people say, GNR is not and has never been just "about the music." As talented as they were and are, GNR is more than just their music. They are a rock n roll institution. A rock n roll freight train, a force. They are the last great iconic rock band who epitomize an entire era of rock.
Love it or hate it, GNR are much larger than just great music-- they are a feeling. an attitude, a way of life. If England has Jagger and Richards, Plant and Page, then America has Tyler and Perry, Slash and Axl.

Gnr have always been just as much about the perfect rock n roll image as the perfect rock n roll sound. Very rarely does a band have the perfect image to back up bad ass rock music, Gnr did. Slash's presence reaffirmed this truth. Most bands today focus on the image and how they are perceived in the media, but their music either sucks or is mediocre at best. The bad ass image of Gnr through their epic videos on MTV was reinforced by the bad ass music everyone was hearing on the radio. The two were a perfect match. Everyone was like, "Finally, a band that looks right and sounds right." A lot of bands had a good sound, but didn't look right, etc.
GNR were the "total package," personified in the Slash and Axl chemistry duo.
In conclusion, it isn''t that Slash makes everything better. It's that the dynamic chemistry between Slash and Axl makes everything better. Only Slash can match Axl's larger than life aura and persona. GNR, being the rock gods that they are, need the larger than life icon to make GNR function at its rightful and optimal level.

Well he does make "ALL" of the older Gn'R catalog better. As he was the one who hand a and in playing them, and creating them....

Not really the debate we're having here, but thank you...

I prefer that to what he played the first night but I think he needs to actually come up with a solo for this song and stick to it (if he refuses to play the original one or a version of it like Ashba did), at the moment it sounds like he's blindly noodling his way through it, there's no real structure there. It's not memorable at all like the original was.

Slash needs "to make some serious adjustments to his playing"?  Really?

All of this  :peace: The fact that they just showed up, played and blew everyone away this weekend is proof of that. They don't need the hoopla, they got something special going on between them.

It's their chemistry that makes it so amazing. I would say Duff's definitely part of that, but in a less obvious way.

Duff is definitely a massive factor. He is a major cog, a bonding, and a special talent all his own. It is beautiful to see these three guys working together again.

Regarding the phenomenal and dynamic chemistry we've seen in the GNR reunion, it appears that Axl and Slash have decided to compromise and meet in the middle in order to resurrect, save, and preserve the final and ultimate GNR legacy, so to speak. Axl seems open to returning to his groovier, raspy "blues-based" classic rock mode and wants to perform in "continuity" with his past legacy and image. In other words, Axl seems reminded that he is first and foremost a gritty, soulful, blues based hard rock n roll singer. Likewise, Slash seems very open to the CD era and wants to graft Axl's CD songs back into the ultimate GNR legacy in order to bring to fruition the "grand GNR vision." Slash is fully embracing the CD songs and placing his heart and authentic "touch" into the songs, not only "making them his own," but "making them "GNR's own." Slash and Axl both seem like they are keeping the bigger, historical picture in view and unifying all GNR era's and eclectic styles (punk, metal, blues rock, prog rock, honky-tonk/southern country rock) into one, coherent and cohesive sound and brand. In other words, saving and preserving the band's place in rock history.
In addition, Slash and Duff have sobered up and are ready to embrace the iconic grandeur of Axl's original vision. They can better play the more complex songs and aren't afraid of ballads and softer songs. They seem to have become "aware" of how profound the band's complex ballads are and how these type of songs helped place them in the pantheon of rock n roll. They separated them from being JUST a good, straight forward hard rock band like ACDC, Motley Crue, etc. and lift them to the level of the Stones and Zeppelin. They are embracing the band's eclectic genius.

They also don't look like they hate each other.

Its so evident in far too many clips from the UYI that not a one of them is having fun on that stage.  180 degrees now.

It's very welcome.

Exactly! I bet if Axl and Slash would've given each other a big fraternal handshake hug and exchanged brotherly smiles during the show and projected it onto the large Jumbotron, they would have blown the roof off the place.

Yeah the end of the UYI tour did look like they were just doing it... because they really didn't know what else to do, and because they kinda had to.

This truly does look like they are enjoying the moment and all that it includes. I think they get it now, and I think they finally understand all the lacking years.

I mean we got "Coma" live. That itself was pretty cool... it is a Slash song too, and one Axl had a hard time writing. It seems like this might be something for the fans, of course they will make a lot... A LOT of money too.

Richard and Frank don't need to be left out of this, they both are really good. I like Richard more than Frank, but they both are awesome additions. I simply want a "Best Of" or "Definitive" collection BEFORE the Late June tour start. There's time for that. I would also love some sort of announcement about future plans if there is any.

Richard definitely can't be left out of this. He's played with Axl and toured under the GNR banner longer than anyone on that stage, except Dizzy Reed. He is the bridge AND the glue betwen 87 - 93 lineup and the hybrid reunion lineup. Together as a united team, all of them can unify the entire GNR legacy so that there is unity and not rupture and discontinuity between eras of the band.

Excelent BETTER Version, Slash Great !!! I Need New Music, All My Votes Is For:

- MELISSA Compositer, Corus, Effects, New Sound -

 :beer:

That one shot of them leaving the stage after the bows with Axl on his crutches and he and Slash laughing...not gonna lie, gave me the feels.

This is something I have never really understood. To me it looks and definitely sounds like they were pretty relaxed and just enjoyed playing the songs in 1993. No, the shows weren't as angry or as complex as in 91?92, but they had had their say and they already proved their point. There were some amazing shows in 93 and they sounded (in my opinion) better than ever before, especially Axl. I think they kind of enjoyed stripping down the shows and songs and getting back to basics. That, I think, is what's kind of happening now too.

Of course a tour as long as the UYI tour takes its toll, and it's clear there was some bad blood flowing between them, but that has been the case pretty much since the band started. I guess that's the biggest change now, or at least it seems like it. They have grown up and definitely every one of them has had time to think about stuff.

What I meant specifically was that they were miserable behind the scenes with eachother.

You can see it at times. They still were performing at a high level then, and all that, but at times you could tell that they were just kinda getting through it.

Plus it has been well documented in several books. They weren't really smiling at the end of the UYI tour too much. During the SKin n' Bones part things got better, but towards the very end and a lot of 1992 things were rocky and you didn't get smiles from Axl and friendly stuff too much.

It is clear that things between them now are more friendly than they were during the last few months of the UYI tour.

Tommy was absolutly right when he said that the reunion 'will Be A healing thing' for them.

"It's very hard to ask a musician to learn to play the part or parts played by other musicians before that. These guys here have worked very hard."

That quote from Axl came into my mind when i heard Slash playing the CD songs.

This logic should work for the CD songs too. It's clearly not the case here in this thread.

I think Axl and Slash both had to give up some things to make them play CD songs. For instance, its more stripped down. There's a lot less effects, and gone are the pre-recorded backing vocals, at least in Chinese, which also lose the long climatic intro. But there's Better, which has no signal of pre-recorded drum loops in the intro and in the verse. From what I could hear in the soundcheck, it's possible that TWAT doesnt have the drum loops in the first verse also. I think all of this was an agreement between them to make it feel more raw and unpolished. It worked, IMO.

I feel you however if Izzy is on the cards it would be just insane. With Izzy IN, I would probably expect an album coming up within 1 year.

Circling back to the original topic of Slash, you really appreciate his return on the end of 'November Rain', and all of 'Estranged'.

I consider the end of NR one of, if not THE signature moment of the band's catalog.  It was OK with the other guys, but never quite right.

Now, it sounds right.

Just to say Slash on This I love is already much much better than DJ. Not as good as the album but still Dj's was a pussies version of Robins Solo

Was a privilege to be there

Agreed on both points.

I like alot of the Argentina 93 shows, it was almost as if at the end of the long tour they (specifically Slash) had enough of playing the same songs and he changed up the solos on a good portion of takes. I also really love the version of November Rain where its just Axl, Slash, and Matt for the bulk of the song and then the whole band joins in for the end.

As for the CD songs live I like the way Better feels now, as well as the tone of the main riff in the song now, Robin's outro was great and I could always imagine Slash playing it similar, although when Slash kicks it into overdrive it is really cool as well.

On TIL pretty much the same, the first part of Robin's solo I prefer, but when Slash kicks starts to just tear in the second half, I REALLY prefer that!

Only Buckethead came close to that. The "shining eyes" effect at RIR III was epic .

Same here.

I was a huge fan of the full band 1992 arrangement, but I really came to like that stripped down one.

Yeah, he was the best one.  In all respects, really.

Bucket is a beast!! I miss that guy....I remember being sad when he left...he could have contributed more.

Buckethead was long gone before I truly appreciated what we had.

When he first came to the band I think Bucket was stamped (by me as well) as a guitarist whose only feat was incredible speed.

He wasn't a known figure, at least not mainstream, so many of his most known songs at that point were showcasing exactly that, speed. It was only when I took a dive into his catalog, which has increased incredibly since his time in GN'R I might add, I could truly see how versatile a guitarist he really is.

I'll take Slash over him in GN'R any day, but Bucket really was the next best thing for GN'R.

Oh, I'd agree.

I was too quick to dismiss him as a freak.  But the time I heard his work on the album, I was blown away.

Of course...he'd been gone, for 6 years by that point.

I think it's great that Slash is back in the band, although kinda weird for me. I was a huge fan back in the day, loved Snakepit and VR, but thought he got lazy in recent years. Never missed Slash at any live shows since '06, and honestly thought having him back would possibly be a step back in a purely musical sense. It is undeniable that Slash+Axl=greater than both of them seperately, which is great for the popularity of the band. And I was impressed with Slash's playing; I think Richard will push him to play at a high level. However...the low point of the show for me (Friday night) was Slash on "Better". Didn't work for me. Also thought DJ's solo on TIL was better live (& I would've never guessed that). And without the third guitar, "Nightrain" & "Paradise City" sounded not nearly as heavy as in recent years. Yes, it's cool that Slash is back; it's great for the band, and already Axl is getting great reviews just by association, which is awesome. I would like to hear some new music, and I would really like to hear Slash's take on "Street of Dreams". I just hope that Axl, Duff and Slash are having a great time playing together. Still weird, but cool, to see them all up there together again.

Why cant some people be happy...And why Bash past members .... so childish.. :peace:

I think this was the case with many fans in the early 00's. And many of them just saw Bucket as a replacement for Slash and shot him down just because of that. It could have been pretty much anyone taking that spot and he would have been shot down the same way, people being blind to what they had. Of course the "freakiness" of Buckethead gave one more reason to make fun of him.

Maybe if CD would have been released earlier with BH still in the band, it might have been different, but who knows. What happened in 98?08 seems like a huge mess...


People seem to be pretty happy at the moment ;)

To think that some of us should just sit back and only say positive things is dumb.

I myself has been very positive. It's been great.

At the same time this is a great great time for people to reflect on things. It's just a great time in general to talk things up.

Most of us are focusing on the present and future. Don't overstate it. Talking about past members is just fine, just be respectful about it and don't bash anything in a direct way.

I mean I still prefer Robin's solo on CD album to Slash's on "This I Love" and I'm a middle of the road CD era fan. I thought the Vegas shows were great overall. Don't be blind and think that no one "could" be critical of things. It is possible.

We're all happy, but we are all so passionate that maybe we want to talk things through. That is what is so fun right? Just we all have to be respectful. I've learned that the hard way.

Someone said here that the band was always about not only music, but the look too. I think this sums up everything. People judged Buckethead and Robin because of their look, and that never really went away. I remember well when Robin came back in 2006 without his goth look and people actually thought he was playing better - hell, there were people saying he "learn how to play" in the downtime.

So yeah, Slash and Duff back in the band brought the look and feel of GNR's brand. I believe Axl already wanted some of that when Ashba came back to the band, but it wasn't the same thing.

And I trully believe that this makes a huge impact on people's general opinion on CD songs. I think no matter what Slash plays, it will always be better just because it's him. I disagree, I just think Slash can do a better job IMHO but each to their own. Fair enough, I guess.

It's true, Nightrain lacks the energy it once had. Still, Sweet Child O' Mine is great again. With Ashba and Bumblefoot trading the solos it was really low powered, it just lost the energy in the build up to the outro. Slash took it back and you can see the reaction of the crowd and it's trully amazing. And like I said before, Rocket Queen seemed to benefit most with his return, in my opinion.

And you're 100% right about Axl getting great reviews by association. I don't think that's fair, but well, at last he's getting some good rep back.

I agree. There is no doubt that the appearance lends to how the whole package feels and sounds.

Slash and Duff bring credibility in so many ways such as appearance and authenticity that could not be matched by previous players despite their talents. 

One thing Slash and Duff are going to bring (and it really shouldn't be this way) is a credibility so to speak when it comes to the "Chinese Democracy" songs.  No matter how much we here on the  message boards disagree with it, the fact is a lot of fans refused to even acknowledge "Chinese Democracy" as a GNR album because Slash wasn't on it.  These are the same fans that have come out of the woodwork the last few months and are making it a lot harder to get good tickets to the shows.    The fact that the band continues to play those songs only cements it as a proper Guns N Roses album.  I spoke with a lot of fans over the weekend in Vegas and it was astounding to me how many of them never even listened to anything off of "Chinese" let alone purchased a copy.  These were passionate fans of the band, many of them flew in  from all over the country to shell out a lot of money on tickets to these shows.

This is my theory; I think that Slash and Duff being back in the band is going to make a lot of these people look at "Chinese Democracy" differently.  Instead of just being pissed off at the very idea of the record because it's a reminder Slash isn't in the band, some fans will now give it a chance, especially after hearing the songs live.   I hope this happens, as I have said for the past 8 years that "Chinese Democracy" is an amazing album with some of the greatest GNR songs ever on it.  It is a shame that so many people have been missing out on these songs because they stubbornly refused to acknowledge the record. 

Bodhi, so you're saying there are die hard fans who haven't even listened to one of the albums by the band? Must be real die hards then.

To be honest, at first when I saw those guys I was like WTF since I don't really dig the freak stuff that started happening mid 90's. I have never been into the comic book character psycho look. However, I think I have really been fair in judging their playing and style, since I like a lot of different types of music. But I could never get into their style of playing. Buckethead's playing does nothing for me. I checked his new music again yesterday just to see if I can get into it. But it just sounds like metal elevator music to me.

The same goes for Robin's playing. I can actually appreciate the guy's looks, so that didn't bother me. However, his way of playing just didn't make sense to me. Too left of center without a real good reason (it's just opinion btw, not saying that's TRUE). Like abstract art, I don't get that either. It seems to be weird for the sake of being weird. No added value. And with DJ Ashba I did like his playing a bit better, but the guy looked and acted like GnR was a circus act (the WTTJ intro live).

And to me, that sums up what has been missing from GnR for so long: a guy that can get by with just his playing. These three all had to resort to weird ass looks just to be noticed. Slash didn't. His playing did and does all the work for him. As was very clear during last weekend's shows: the most stripped down setting, looks and approach in a very long time. Seems to me that works the best.

My point is: these other guitarists are definitely good musicians who fill a niche. But they were just never that great of a match with GnR and what it in its core was/is: old school rock 'n roll.

I agree with many points on this thread.  Bottom line is CD songs played by slash makes the album a true guns n roses album.  I remember being at 2011 Miami show and the majority of fans were aggravated by the solos by Bumble, fortis, ashba, and even Dizzy, while with slash and duff in band, now in general, people are excited about slash and duff and their solos and jams.....  The CD album is an Axl album without slash, or a new Gunner album, but with slash.... We have a gnr album now that followed UYI..
This is of course only how I feel, but for me, CD is much more official now that the 3 of the originals play it.
And as much as Izzy is an integral part of the band's history, if izzy duff and Axl toured without slash, gnr would not be given the hype and credit they have.  It truly is all about slash and Axl playing together...
In the end, I was satisfied with new GNR and so thankful for Axl continuing our favorite band, but slash playing is magical and the entire world is taking notice of the greatest rock band ever!
So thanksgiving came early this year!!!

I understand you. Disagree about Robin (he didnt even keep his weird look in 2006/07) and Ashba (couldnt like anything the guy plays), but I get how you feel. But I was refering to people who changed their minds based only on the looks. It happened a lot, and it's still happening now.

I'm not saying Slash's playing isn't a huge part of GNR sound - it is. I know it is, I started to play guitar because of the guy. It still sounds awesome to me. And when people cheer when they hear him playing some high notes bend in the very ending of his solo in Estranged, it's because people can listen clearly to a signature tone from a legend. That's awesome and still give me chills.

I don't know about that. I think people would look different to the songs being played live with Slash, not on the record as it is. Hopefully I'm wrong and the album gets its fair chance now.

I agree with your point 100%.  However for fans to pay flight and hotel on top of higher than average ticket prices for the weekend, they are more than the average fan of the band.  I was shocked at the amount who hadn't heard "CD" or in some cases listened to it once. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people whose favorite band is Guns N Roses who refused to listen to "Chinese Demcoracy" and did not go see the band at any point since 2002.   The band is playing stadiums now , and they are not going to be filled with new fans, these are fans who have been there for a long time.  I have a friend who saw them several times on the "Illusion" tour, I gave him a copy of "CD" and he still hasn't gotten around to listening to the whole thing.  He has tickets for the upcoming tour though.

I think a lot of us on the board here have probably noticed a little more activity in text messages and emails the last few weeks right?  We have been the ones going on and on about the band on a daily basis for the last 20 years and now people are coming to us for information on dates and how to get tix etc.. I have seen a few of you post similar stories in other threads.

My original point was hopefully with Slash back and playing the songs whatever negativity a lot of fans had towards "Chinese" would dissipate and they can give the record a proper chance now.  Them playing the songs breaks down that wall of GNR vs NUGNR, it's just GNR.   Once again all of us on the boards already knew this, but now more of the general audience might get with the program.

[/quote]

I prefer that to what he played the first night but I think he needs to actually come up with a solo for this song and stick to it (if he refuses to play the original one or a version of it like Ashba did), at the moment it sounds like he's blindly noodling his way through it, there's no real structure there. It's not memorable at all like the original was.
[/quote]

Hi guys,

Here's my first post :)

I'm actually quite surprised that people on this forum haven't gone deeper into what this guy says about Slash. Look at the classic Guns n Roses stuff, Slash wrote and created amazing solos, especially for the ballads: SCOM, Estranged, November Rain... Except for the outro to Better, all he does to Chinese Democracy song is shred. Now it's not too bad on the rockier songs, but what he does to This I Love is horrible. Think that I'm also certain that Fink was thinking about Slash's work when he wrote that solo; there's emotion, perfectly played high notes and skill. Also look at what he did to Slash's solos when he was in GNR: he kept the base and added his own bits. This I Love has a lovely melody (check out the piano/keyboards) on which Fink based the first part of his solo and then goes on to something different. I'm not at all against Slash playing his own version or even totally changing the solo; but there is no base, no melody and no "feel" to either of the versions he played in Vegas.

Slash's laziness and sloppiness ruins one of GNR's songs, whereas I'm sure he's capable of playing his own exceptional piece of work. Personally, that's part of why Izzy is so important, especially when writing new songs. Izzy is organized, structured and with someone like that, Slash can do his bit. Without Izzy, I can't see any decent music being created except for some of Axl's masterpieces.

they are coming out of the woodwork now.... ::)

While his post didn't have much substance, and I disagree with it... don't disregard him because it's his first post. Everything has a right to say what they think. It was disrespecful and I again... disagreed with what he said, but you're basically blowing his post off because he has a post count of 1.

Who cares? Reply to it accordingly or don't reply at all.

Slash is shooting for something on the TIL solo.  He is not just noodling for noodles sake (lol).  Like I have said before, I think the people that are having a difficult time with what he played do not enjoy it because they expect the solo to be closer to what they expect to hear.  I do not believe that Slash will play those songs in the style of anyone other than himself.  And in my opinion, he has more than earned the right to do it his way.

Bodhi, on point, yet again.

I have haven't talked as much GNR with other human beings (in other words, not just you guys online) in the past few months than I have since high school.  Which, for me, was 21 years ago.

That's no accident, nor some hard to figure out mystery.  People didn't dig CD.  Either didn't like it once they heard it, didn't even give it a chance, whichever.  It did not land, ultimately.

Do I think people will give the album a fresh listen or a second chance though?  Not really.  The people that think the way they've thought see CD as a total wrong turn by Axl and that is unlikely to really change.  At least, in my opinion.

They may not outright boo CD stuff at the concerts, or maybe not even sit down.  But, for a lot of folks, I bet that night at the show is the only time they hear them.

I agree.  I think he's still working it out.

My suspicion is that by tour's end in August, it will be a more distinct and consistent take on the song than we have gotten so far.

If you read my post, you'll see that I think he is totally capable of doing it his way, but where's the melody, the sense? The November Rain solo is amazing, as are the Estranged solos; which is why "This I Love" is such a disaster. The licks he does at the end of Chinese Democracy  and that rundown are quite impressive for example. The two versions of This I Love are totally improvised and such a great song deserves a classic Slash solo. Hopefully, as you say, we will get it.

Regarding the first and second reply I got, don't mistake me for a Slash-hater. I'm a classic GNR fan who loved Chinese Democracy, appreciates all the guitarists work, was luck enough to see GNR on the 2006 tour and blew me away (I only went because of Axl but was amazed by the whole band's professionality and feel), joined Nightrain and can't wait to see the classic lineup if and when they come to Europe. However, I found and find it very strange that hardly anyone has commented with positive criticism to Slash's work on CD songs. I play the guitar and I'm sure many others do and my observations seem quite simple and realistic  :P

I think it is akin to the people that formed an emotional attacment to the pre-release earlier versions of the leaks and preferred them over the Album versions.

People are very much creatures of habit, most aren't fans of change, even in a song's arrangement and solo.

Very true, right here.

The RIR III concert is, to this day, my favorite versions of those new songs. 

Because I listened to them non-stop for 6 years before I had the leaks of those 3 tunes, and then had to wait another year for the album.

I thought all 3 degraded over time.  But likely because I had gotten so use to them the other way.

I agree. Also, Slash brings an energy to the band that is evident from the moment he starts playing. It was great hearing the fans react when Slash emerged from being his amps a few seconds into "It's So Easy" in Vegas.

the band has been revitalised thanks to Slash! All the haters of Slash on this board have conveniently changed their tune, and now say that band sound amazing again, which they do.

oh good lawd. and you're serious, aren't you! :lmao:

The thing with Slash is this...

He hadn't been in the band in almost 20 years. In that time a lot of newer fans kinda jumped on the post 1997 Gn'R. Which didn't include Slash. People liked the old Guns stuff sure and respected Slash's work, but it was always easy to side or to stick with Axl since he was the survivor of Gn'R's demise. I mean everyone left from the original lineup.

It would be pretty easy to focus on the current post 1997 band, and just love that. And that is what people did. I know I did. I loved it until the 2005ish area and I got old of waiting. Still, guess who was buying multiple copies of CD the day it came out? Yep me!

I must confirm what someone else has said, this board... was largely against Slash or didn't like talking about him or whatever. Really strange. Like 1/2 of the people here over the years have said something really negative about VR, Slash, his solo stuff etc... It was very much like Slash had been banished from Gn'R lore in some ways.

Anything mentioned of Axl in a negative way was flamed on, while SLash was tolerated much more.

I simply think most people blame Slash for the friction that was Gn'R's demise in the mid 90s.

Whoever and whatever it was... no one really cares now outside of human interest and trivial purposes. Great things are happening. While it is interesting, and always fun to discuss... none of it matters at this moment. Not now.

Hahaha!  :hihi:

GNR have always sounded amazing, from 1985-2016.

...tell someone you are going to see them this summer.

Then compare it to when you said you were going to see them 5 years ago.

That difference in reaction is "the thing with Slash".

Preach.

Christ, Axl was in a cast and a wheelchair (albeit a tricked out one), and I hadn't seen him look this happy and full of energy in a long time.  He looked like he was at peace...and he sounded fucking amazing. 

I don't see how that is debatable.

You do realize if the roles were reversed, this board would be flooded with "thank god Axl is back" threads.  You do recognize that, I hope.

Its not about one guy versus the other.  Its about having the band back sounding like the band that made us all fans, lo those many moons ago.

It takes both men.

THIS is exactly the point!  : ok:

You know, you say that.

Yet if I, or anyone else, were to say "it finally sounds like Guns N' Roses again", you'd take issue with it, would you not?

No matter what...

this will always be a Axl vs. Slash thing.

It just will be. Deep down it will be. Always will. No matter how many of you decide to deny it.

I honestly like them both, together they are great, apart they are good.

Disagree. 

It will always be about replacement line-ups getting their due and never, under any circumstances, not be seen as equals.

That will always be the crux of the heat.

One sided heat though.  If that is your deal, you will forever search any and all comments for slights, real or perceived.

The rest of us are just too happy to care about that nonsense.

Yes. I would take issue with the words "finally" and "again".

Just listening to any era of GNR doing any song, I could not tell you if it's Slash playing guitar or Richard or BH or Robin or BBF or Ashba.  But 95% of the time, I could tell you it's Axl singing!  To me it has always sounded like GNR because I recognize Axl's voice.

Strangely, I think I could maybe tell the difference if it's Dizzy playing the piano vs Axl playing piano.

You can't tell the difference between Slash and Ashba??

No. Honestly I can't.  To my ears, 70% of the time the guitar solos sound like someone having 'relations' with a cat and the cat is NOT enjoying it.

I could care less right now, but that is the orgin of all the controversy/warped minds. It just is, then after that the lineup stuff you talked about comes into play. I really think that Axl and Slash and all the bad vibes through the years is always going to be a point of contention. Hard to say that it will not.

It isn't my deal, I'm loving it all, it's just people are still kinda slighting Slash a little here and there, and it is allowed lol

On another note, yeah there's a massive difference between AShba and Slash.

To me, as someone who has played the guitar for 16 years now, I can hear right away who's playing

Slash has a more loose way of playin'.. Sure, he repeats a lot of licks, but his sound, his tone, and those licks are what GNR are

Bumble and Bucket are extremely technical guitar players, and they can play pretty much everything you hand to them. But it sounds too mechanical and "right" all the time, if you know what I mean.

Robin, is VERY sloppy. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and his style, but his playing is undeniably sloppy

DJ has no personality in his playing whatsoever

And Fortus... Well, Fortus is a pretty good rhythm guitar player, and he can also solo pretty well. But his lead suffers a little bit from the same problem as Bucket and Bumble. He does fit GNR though.

Wouldn't you agree that 80% of the fans attending these shows are like me and don't play guitar and can't distinguish one guitar player's sound/style from the next? 

Obviously when we can see who it is playing on stage, we believe we can hear a difference.  But if you were to play a snippet of WTTJ for us 80%, most of us would be hard pressed to say if it's Slash or Richard or BH or Robin or BBF or Ashba.

To compare Slash with any of his replacements is just nosense to me
All the guitar players that played with Axl since Slash left are obviously really really great players, but none of them is Slash. Is like tryin' to replace Page in Zeppelin, Angus in ACDC, Joe Perry in Aerosmith or Keith Richards in Rolling Stones. Of course there a lot of really great and talented players out there that can play their songs almost exactly like they do, but NOTHING LIKE THE ORIGINAL

Yes, I agree 100%

And I didn't mean to be a snob, I was just pointing out the differences between them  :peace:

I'm  a long time guitar and bass player as well, but there is no need to be a musician to distinguish one guitar player's sound/style from the next

We all here are music freaks and listeners and love music and Guns N' Roses. That's all u need to appreciate it

: ok:

But off course, the differences are a long term thing. You can't hear the differences between the way they play the intro riff to WTTJ

But in a whole show, tour or album.... There are differences, even if you don't notice them.. They're there

A good guitar player has a style that's as distinctive as a human voice, just about.  And if you listen to them often enough, you can pick them out from others.  Like the end to November Rain - nobody other than Slash would have played that.  Other players might copy it, but you can tell the original player from an imitator.

Of think of Iron Maiden - three lead guitar players in that band, and when they swap solos around in a song, any Maiden fan could tell you which player is soloing at any given time, even on a new song they'd not heard before.

No worries.  No offense taken. Appreciate you sharing your perspective.  :)


We might have a slight language barrier here.  If this is a question, the answer for me is no.  I can not hear a difference.

I would think there would have to be some difference to what the audience is hearing even from Slash.  He (or anyone) couldn't duplicate how it sounds when he plays say WTTJ on stage every time, every show, exactly the way it sounded when he played it on the album.  Each settings acoustics alone would be a cause for the difference in the sound perception.

I don't think his TIL is "a disaster". I do agree with you on the structure and how he's capable of doing better. It's a really long solo, and it needs to flow with the overall melody. But I think he already got better the second night. Maybe it's just a work in progress.

I believe you. I actually remember we had similar conversation before, years ago.

Anyways, the thing is: there's a lot like you who can't say who plays what. But there's also lots of non-musicians (regular people too, really) who are able to tell the difference. Because in the end, they alo make a difference even if you can't tell right away. And it's up to you if you like it or not. And some people just likes someone tone and notes better.

I'm sorry, English is not my 1st language  :-[

I was stating that, that was not a question. What I meant is that the differences appear in the long term. In an album, on a tour, the different playing styles will show, not on a single riff.

For example, today I was listening to Catcher In The Rye. In my opinion, Slash would never play the solo like Bumblefoot did. It's just to "right" you know. It's not that I don't like it, I do, but it's far too mechanical to me.

After that, I listened to Brian May's approach on the solo, from the demo. That's a whole different feel to me. And that feel is closer to Slash's, and closer to what I feel GNR should be.

Anyway, I think music is too subjective, and that's why it's so hard to me to explain my point. Besides, there's the language problem  :hihi:

No worries about the language difference.  :)

Your explanation actually did make it easier for me to understand a little better.... especially the Catcher analogy.

Bumblefoot has a reputation of being able to technically replicate a song.  Slash has a reputation of playing songs more from the heart (as opposed to technically correct).  So I can see how Slash's style of playing would bring an entirely different sound to a song like Catcher rather than a more mechanical style like Bumblefoot.

Yes! You summed it up nicely!  :peace: : ok:

Honestly...no.

We have been listening to this guy our whole lives.  You can't tell?

Even when it's a Slash solo song I don't know (and I don't know any of them), the second I flick on the radio and its one of his songs, I know.

And I'm no musical savant.  I'm still listening to Skid Row and Twisted Sister, and claiming them as favorite bands...unironically.

Ha!  Skid Row were a legit good band, the first 2 records were great.  Twisted Sister... You're on your own with that one. :hihi:

'Slave To The Grind' is still one of my favorite records ever.  It's a "desert island" album for me, even in 2016.

^Love that album! Then when I first heard that acoustic radio performance/demo thing of Angel Down (the song) I was so stoked about it! It rocked so hard! But I hated the finished version. It had some poor man's November Rain ballad-y stuff going on that I couldn't stand and it totally took the song down a couple notches for me. Loved hearing Axl on that album though. How cool was that!?

Always loved Sabo's guitar on "In a Darkened Room" man. Subhuman race has one of my favorite songs ever... "Breakin DOwn"

To sum it all up, Slash has a very distint style, and that style IS Guns N' Roses. He makes the old songs right and the CD era songs interesting for me. They were fine without him, but it is just cool to hear his solo on"This I Love" etc.

Slash does make Gn'R better. With Axl and Slash seemingly on great terms and getting on well... it is only positive things for the present and the future!

Ha!  I love that album...I think of Wasted Time as the last ballad, the final homage to the 80's before the tidal wave of grunge and flannel shirts took over.  IMO, a very underrated song.

Isn't that being tone deaf ? :P

He does make GNR better. But not everything better, and that's the point I guess. The CD songs were not exactly made to replicate the old band style. I think he and Duff made a great effort in rearrange them to make it more like the old sound, but it doesnt mean it's better because of it. And to me the greatest example of not being there yet is This I Love solo. I thought it would be a no brainer for Slash, that he would come up with a solo of his own just like he did with Dust in the Wind back in the 90s. That didn't happen.

Yeah that to me is the last great rock record along with the UYI albums. They were released like 2 months apart roughly and after that, Nevermind hit around that time, and things changed a lot. It's a great album. Sucks they couldn't get back together and do a Skid Row/GnR thing. WOuld of been epic.

On the Slash solo thing, yeah he did do his own thing on 'This I Love" it is cool, but not what I expected. I think he'll get something for it.

Pretty cool that you guys like Slave to the Grind. I consider it a top 10 "rock" album of the 90s for sure.

Yeah. Pretty much!  :hihi:

But in my defense as I mentioned earlier, I can hear the difference between the piano playing styles of Axl vs Dizzy so I'm probably only 70% tone deaf.  ;D

This is GNR to me... Axl singing his ass off with Slash playing some soulful tasty leads.

http://youtu.be/P-IttCPOOgQ

Me too, especially because Its similar in style to Slash's?. maybe he wanted to come up with something totally different, and that's why we don't like it.
His work on Better is awesome though, really enjoy the new intro and the solos.

I really like Slash's solo on TIL.  Not really just noodling to me, I think it has the effect of your soul being torn to pieces, which fits with the song's theme.  That said, I understand that Robin's solo is one of the guitar parts on CD that fans have gotten most attached to, if it's not the guitar highlight of the album. 

Hear, hear!

NOT! Definitely not true 😂

Yeah I really think that solo by Finck on TIL is the standout guitar piece. It just evokes so much feeling. Slash's take is very interesting, as it does kinda remind me of something shattered or splintered badly.

NIce take on that dude. Hadn't thought that much about it until now.

It was during the 4/9 TIL solo that I fully realized just how much I had missed Slash.

His solo wasn't necessarily better than the album version, but it was GNR as hell. It had a classic feel that reframed the song. Like the solo in NR or Breakdown it was suitably emotional and moving, but, it also had attitude and bite. Everything he plays does.

To be sure Robin's original solo is incredibly emotional and fitting to the song (probably the most emotive GNR solo not by Slash)... but as soon as I heard Slash on the song I remembered back to when CD came out. TIL was one of my favorite tracks but it was also a surprise. I remember being surprised that this was the song I heard was written so long ago. For many fans the surprise was too much and it was their least favorite. The song is all emotion and sadness, no teeth. It is an undeniably beautiful piece of music, theatrical and deep, with a lyric you can't forget, but it's vulnerability is full on. No other GNR ballad is quite like this one.

When you hear Slash on it, you could say his solo doesn't flow with the song as seamlessly, but I thought that was a good thing. It stands out. It's powerful. This I Love drips with melancholy, but Slash's guitar also has a tone of defiance. The noodling was as if celebrating the music and moment of the song, and it built and built in such a way that it was triumphant. It didn't compliment the song but rather completed it, which is after all what we saw on all the classic songs. Listen to the lyrics and you'll hear Axl singing not about a hopelessly lost or uncertain love, but one that he knows is not yet gone. He knows about the little light she can't deny. He's obviously in the darkest and most heartbroken of places but Axl's lyrics have a defiance and confidence to them, and it turns out that's why, more than anything, I missed Slash in GNR. Because Slash's guitar always sounds like Axl's attitude.

The talk about the "look" or GNR misses the point. It's not about the look now because it wasn't about the look then. But Slash and Duff do come with a considerable amount of authentic swagger. All the talk right now of the past guitarists, including Bucket who is an unimaginable genius, is misplaced. Those guys deserve their credit for sure, but to see Slash on stage as GNR again is really really special.
It's not just about being a classic lineup guy and nostalgia but about his career his playing and his sound. Few people on the planet are more rock and roll than Slash. His guitar sound is recognizable to the casual fan and his skill is recognized even by those who aren't fans. If you asked people on the street to name the greatest guitarists of all time, imagine how many would list Slash top 5. Forget top ten, top 5. He's a big enough star that Axl's broken foot is pretty easy to ignore, and now we all get to be reminded why. I'm thrilled.

well said mate.  :peace:

The most important question regarding Slash's return still hasn't been answered though...

Is he ever gonna sit on Axl's piano to play the outro to November Rain again?! ???

I hope to see him standing on the piano again  :P

Whoa. Maybe you thought too much about it. 

Of course you can relate anything to the lyrics that way. If Slash just went through feedback noise, you could say it's because the pain is so deep that makes us uncomfortable. :P

The point to me is that there's so much you can do in a song to make it everything work together. The way I feel is that Slash just got the beginning and the rest he made up on the fly, jamming with the band. He sure is entitled to improvise and do what he wants to do, of course. I just wish this song should get a more streamlined and well thought solo.

It was always about the look AND the sound. You can't say a guy in a top hat isn't also about the look.

 ;D ;D ;D
I thought he was going to do it on some of those videos. But he just went near the drums higher up.

It'be great if he did it in Coachella.

this forum is like stepping back into the 90s....in ALL ways.

I think the solo is a work in progress. Which is a good thing because Slash hates spending time writing, just look at World on Fire. Some great riffs but the writing could have been much better, including solos. So if he just wrote something in rehearsal and stuck with it, well it would be what we saw in the first show. By the end of the tour I think he'll have worked out a wonderful solo. Even by the second show it was a huge improvement.

I'm still hearing what sounds like improvised wankery, which is a shame because I really used to look forward to the solo in TIL, even when Ashba was playing it but I suppose he stayed true to the original... I just wish Slash would've done something similar, just put his own spin on it. I'm still obviously glad he's back and he's NAILING the old stuff, I'd just rather not listen to his take on this particular solo anymore so I kinda just skip watching that song now.

It seemed like in Vegas he was trying to work something out.  This Coachella version seemed to me like he was just soloing at the part for the solo.  Oh well.  He will find a groove in time, I am sure.

The Coachella version did seem to fit more. While not the original TIL solo, it did seemed more natural than the Vegas versions.

I think he is still figuring this one out.    By the end of the tour its going to be amazing.

The April 19 Mexico City show tore up! Holy Cow. It was a clinic.

Last night even better!  Each show better.  WTF... CRAZY

Agree 100%

Just because it's Slash playing, doesn't mean it will always be good

Take Yesterdays' solo from Mexico last night for example. In my opinion Slash butchered it with nonsense shredding.

The thing I hated the most about Buckethead and Bumblefoot is that all their solos was just a showcase of their abilities, in other words, just nonsense noodling.

Not bashing Slash, though, he's awesome

Mmh...well most people will agree there are quite some "tecnically better" guitarists on the planet.
Sorry I just couldn't get myself to support a guy with a KFC basket on his head IN GnR.
He might be a GREAT guitarist - was just too much for me, sorry. 😂
Bumble is a huge force - no doubt. I loved his way of just talking to the fans...whatever...
Slash is just Slash. And I love him for that! Fuck perfectionism!
Every time I have seen HIM play - I got goosebumps, the hair on my arm went up...
It's just Slash. 😂

Yeah, I wish he would've played like the regular studio solo. Its simple, but its amazing.

Yes, sometime less is more

Slash is technically more accurate now. He used to be a little sloppy back in the day, probably because he played while he was drunk, or worse  :hihi:

His playing is really focused now, and he has improved A LOT on the shredding part. But sometimes he should stick to the basics. Yesterday's solo is one of my favorite Guns solos, mainly because of the build up it has. And Slash killed it last night

Slash  poor attempt at replicating Bucket Head solo, he even worse whit Robins fill in the first half of TWAT . :rofl:

WTF with Slash shredding ? Where is the soul playing blues stuff he is the King at ?
Slash needs to stop to fuck around and bring his A game HE CAN DO IT BETTER !

Anyone who doesn't think Slash crushed TWAT (and Better & Chi Dem for that matter) is high.  :confused:

Dude knocks them all out of the park and breathes new life into them.

Slash does help the CD songs. It is just more my preference. The CD songs has a very different feel to them from AFD/UYI stuff.

Slash brings a side effect like feel to them. Different, but still good.

The new intro to Better is just badass.  And I love his more "grungey" Chi Dem intro.

Everyone who doesn't share your opinion is high? :P

I think Slash did a better job in CD and Better. Not so much on TIL. TWAT was great, but I got somewhat confused by the audio quality to proper judge it.

In my opinion, Slash's job on TIL is complete shit. It feels like he has never player that song, and is just improvising over it.

That being said, I never thought the other live versions of this song's solo did it justice. The best version is the studio one, by far

Sorry but Slash made a complete mess of the Buckethead TWAT solo, I thought he would too if I'm honest, it's not his style... I thought he would do a better job of the Finck solo though because that IS in his style but he messed up on that one too. In his defense it's his first time playing them and I hope he will improve. Bumblefoots first attempt at the tricky BH TWAT solo at Hammerstein Ballroom in 2006 wasn't great either but towards the end he was really nailing it but I guess it's closer to his style of playing as well.

If I wanted to hear a solo sound note for the note like the record, I would skip going to a live show and just stay home and listen to the album.

I am not just saying that because Slash is taking liberties with the "CD" stuff, I say that about all the bands I am a fan of.  I hate when an artist plays something note for note like the record.  That is why I never took issue with DJ, Robin, Richard, Ron or Bucket doing their own takes on the old Guns stuff.  Anybody can just mimic a solo, cover bands do that in bars on a daily basis.

I don't think Slash butchered the solo of "Yesterdays", he was live and in the moment.  Just because he played it a certain way in a studio in 1991 doesn't mean he has to mimic those exact notes for the rest of his life.

Slash's solo at the end of TWAT brought tears to my eyes. I thought it was great... and it's the first time he's played it live...

I agree. But some solos are so iconic that they should be played like the recording. How would you feel if Slash started to improvise on November Rain, or Estranged?

I'd feel alright, I've heard these songs so many times a fresh take is nice. But I understand with people paying big bucks to see these shows for the first time wanting the solos to hit the spots they are used to.

Btw, when will Slash stop messing up the end of November Rain solo #1?  :P

where are you hearing Coachella second weekend? I can't find TWAT played by slash anywhere.

I think TWAT was only played once and that was in Mexico on April 20th.

BillBailey702 posted his:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TflZzo6ZqmM&feature=youtu.be

Voodoochild posted this one by Gozdek G:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jfXX3TYZSE


Maybe someone else knows a better way to hear yesterday's Coachella but the only way I know is to click on a periscope link.  Smirnoffla seems to have a lot of the show on his periscope:  https://www.periscope.tv/Smirnoffla/1eaKbBLwgLVKX

Thanks for the links !!

The quality of the recordings is pretty bad. However it does seem that Slash, unlike the TIL solo, does stick to the original melody. I think he does a fine job especially near the end. I think at the 4:43 min mark ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TflZzo6ZqmM&feature=youtu.be ) he kicks a lot of ass and he rips up until the end.

It would be cool to see him in high quality sound.

That's what I first thought, however on a second listen, he is sticking with a particular melody and follows the structure of the chords.

After listening a couple new boots and a couple of old boots from the 00's. I find that the band was tighter and the level of musicality was way better(to my taste) during the ''lets call it the Chinese era''

To each their own.

Be ready for responses from the top hat lovers.  People won't admit this because their beloved man is back, but I would agree.  However, it can take some time to get that back.  And on top of that, this is all still pretty cool right now...to witness some history. 

No doubt they will get tighter with time, and they still sound allright in my opinion.

In addition to all that i wrote above, i kinda believe Pitman on his cashgrab comment. So my GN'R fever has been lower for the time being.

Agreed, I've been more into Slash's music than CD (although I do like many songs from it) and I was saying since like 2012, after Apocalyptic Love came out, that he was getting too technical and losing his classic groove. And then World on fire came out and I couldn't even listen to it because the solos were just so wank-y, and like he improvised them all on the spot. Some of the riffs had great potential, but of course he notoriously doesn't like spending time on songwriting, so a lot of the songs felt half-baked as well. The contrast to his playing in GNR is stark.

And it's funny, I see people saying how he's not as sloppy as he used to be. Well, as a guitarist of 12 years, I disagree. If anything, he's even more sloppy. He's definitely more technical but he doesn't play in the groove as well as he used to. Even when he was drunk, he somehow managed to stay roughly within the groove. Now, it seems like he gets bored (especially with slower songs like NR and Yesterdays) and just doesn't give a shit about holding notes to the right length or even playing to the beat sometimes. And being drunk must have inspired him, because his drunk improvising was way more groovy than the boring wanking he adds now. When he did Anastasia or Rocket Queen with Myles, I couldn't wait for the extended solos to end, a thing I never thought I would say about my hero Slash. Yesterdays is a perfect example as well.

Also, he always sounds like he's struggling to pick the notes. IDK if his guitars have higher action than they used to, or if it's because he uses less gain (I've definitely noticed this, ever since Snakepit ended, even in VR but especially with SMK&C). It does seem he's using a bit more gain now than he had been with Myles, but it's still not as much as he used to on the UYI tour.

I just hope that he'll rediscover that groove throughout the tour, being back in GNR.

Steven was groovy, imo slash had more of a slither. Yea, he is a little more stiff and focused, but listen 2 TIL :smoking:

Even before the "reunion" talk started, I told people that I thought bringing Slash back would be a step back from a purely musical standpoint. Image wise, it's undeniable what he brings to the stage, but even now I think he's the second best guitarist in GnR.

I'm part of team Top Hat... I would agree that the CD Era line up was cleaner and tighter live, however I feel like they were also very 'sterile'

I would say the sloppiness sounds better on the Appetite and Illusion songs. While I will always be grateful that Ron helped push Estranged back in the rotation, it never sounded as good as it sounds now.

What I have noticed, and this could be due to timing as there have been some mixups with when the drums or other guitars come in... BUT Slash isn't playing some songs that he played every night with Myles as well as he has in the past 2 or 3 years. I also noticed his 'tone' is off on the recordings we've heard (maybe board members who have heard it live can comment). I wonder if the change from his signature Marshall line to Silver Jubilee's has an impact... I also wonder if that amp change is due to chasing a tone on the CD material. He's sounded better in recent years (but I still think he sounds better than DJ or Bumble on the Appetite and Illusion material).

Can you honestly say when you hear 'Estranged', 'Sweet Child O' Mine', and the end of 'November Rain'...you think its a step back from what we've been getting the past 15 years?

Even though I don't find them nearly as big a deal as some, I can concede that he's still finding his way on tunes like 'This I Love' and 'There Was A Time'.

But the second I heard him on the classic GNR tunes, they sounded "right" again, for lack of a better term.

Put the bong down.

Hahahaha

Or...pass that shit over.

 :hihi:

I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THE ANALOGY THOUGH. LOL

A step down musically? Slash helped create the music. The position he took over from presumably was DJ???? So the statement about it being a step down musically?? really? I need a bong to process it.  :D

i want a custom gnr bong. that would be something awesome to see in the nightrain store. it could even have "loaded like a freight train" written on it. please fernando! pleeeaaase!

Cough cough... Let me try to explain myself. Yes, Slash is the man on the Apetite and Illusions (& Lies) material. No doubt about it. It is awesome seeing (& especially HEARING) him play those songs with GnR again. I guess what I meant by saying it was a step back musically was with potential NEW music. I am not one of those people who wants the next GnR album to sound just like "Appetite". I loved when "Illusions" came out; it continued on what I felt was possible with the band after hearing Rocket Queen. And I loved Chinese Democracy. I wish (like all of us here) that the band had released more new music; I felt the 3 guitar assault was capable of anything. Even live, I think some of the Appetite songs (Nightrain, PC) sound weaker now than they have in recent years. I am by no means a fan of Ashba (although girls I've taken to shows seem to love him), and I thought his playing was atrocious on classic-era material, but I thought his solo on TIL was better than any versions I've heard from Slash so far (including the show I was at). And I thought that would be one he would really nail. Now I think they should drop that one; I would love to hear his take on SOD.
 Anyway, my original comment was more about the band's musically direction going forward.
Now where's that bong?

I do see your point, inlikeflynn420.

I guess another way to look at it is like this.  Always thought the new band sounded the best on the new songs.  The classic songs never sounded quite right to me.  Sounded like someone else trying to play them the way we knew them.  Which, let's face it, is what it was.

Now, I do suppose roles are reversed.  'Estranged' sounds right again, but now 'This I Love' sounds a bit off.

I just think that is a mix of there only being 3 songs that are "off", instead of the majority of the set.  And, cards on the table, I think people (myself, 100% included) are more willing to roll with the classic material being on point and the newer stuff still being a work in progress than the opposite.

Its all about opinions... cheers for clarifying where you were coming from.

I think its a little bit like what DX said above... Slash being back means the AFD and Illusions stuff is back on point and sounding how it should sound.. at least in most peoples opinion.

In regards to the CD stuff and i have never made any secret of my lack of caring for that stuff.. i can see where you are coming from. But as DX said above.. most people would take that trade off. I know i personally would. But yeah i do see where you are coming from, CD just personally doesnt mean that much to me i guess. I'll be the first to admit, when these live shows started, and i wanted to hear what type of shape Axl's voice was in for example, i went straight to Jungle to check the opening growl. Simple??? yeahhhh very simple.. but to me, how Axl and the band sounds in terms of their performance u can usually tell whether they are on or not by that song. (ps.. i know this has deviated from your post above now)... but the point im making i guess is.. if i want to tell people how slash sounded in general at one of these shows... im not pointing out TIL to people.. im pointing out Jungle.. or SCOM or YCBM... because those songs are obviously what the casual fan understands. Us hardcore fans i get are different though.

Its all about opinions though.

Ps.. Someone get Fernando to get a GNR bong instore please. ;)

 

Well put DX! I totally agree with everything you said. It really is like 2 bands playing each others' music. I do miss the third guitar on some of the songs, but having Richard instead of, say, Gilby, does add some punch. He is one hell of a "rhythm" guitarist. Yes, hearing the old stuff played "right" is most important. Slash does have a natural, loose feel that fits those songs better.  But I do want to hear some CD songs, so I hope Slash gets it together on those. I do think some of those tunes (but not all) would sound killer with his take on them

Can't believe what I started lol. Opinions are like assholes we all got one.  Personally I'm digging the way slash plays the CD era songs, especially Cd.

Yeah, CD sounds great.

I think the point of this thread is correct.   It doesn't matter how slash plays CD songs because in the end, slash is original GNR.  Had he been part of the "replacement era" GNR, the sons on the CD album would sound different. Regardless how good the replacements were and are, Slash is GNR.  Slash playing CD songs, even if you like it less with him, makes CD songs legit GNR.  Prior to this, the typical fan didn't recognize CD as true GNR. 

Bottom line is Slash is GNR so however he plays he Cd songs is basically what they are now!

If they r selling out 60,000 seat stadiums now, but playing nearly the same songs they played prior to slash, what does that tell us about GNR with and without slash.
It tells us that "Slash makes everything better."

Dat intro to Better!

I don't know they do so any more now, to be honest.

Of all the people that ask me about the shows so far, over half have asked me if any CD songs are played and how many.  And their vibe is not a hopeful one.

I tell them its only 3, but all 3 sound pretty damn good.  CD is a quick rocker right at the beginning when you are still just pumped to be there.  TIL is a song they probably don't know, but its not going to sound all that different than the GNR they do know.  And 'Better' is not only super catchy, but often wedged between 2 of their best known songs (SCOM & CW).

Most seem satisfied with that. 

Slash with Axl makes half sellout arenas to full sellou stadiums

This really can't be overstated.  GNR is an event again.  It's a happening.

It's really a great thing to see.

Yep!

Nu Gn'R were doing pretty good together but they were doing like 60-70%. When I saw them in Nashville in late 2011 the arena which holds about 16k for concerts wasn't a sellout. It was probably 70-80% full.

The stadium show in July has already gotten 70%... and that's a stadium. So they are 2 months out, and have sold around 45k tickets where with the 2011 show was around 12kish.

Massive difference in the 2 lineups. It's great to be a Gn'R fan.

The dark, confusing days are over.

I'm so happy for you.

Personally I don't remember those dark confusing days. I must've been focusing on something else and missed them altogether.  :-[




/jarmo

I've seen every GNR lineup since 2002 a bunch of times and every single one of those nights was an EVENT to me.  Look, I totally understand the excitement and it is really cool they are playing at this level again.  It is clear there is a huge segment of people who refused to see the band without Slash.  But I don't understand this need to tear down other lineups of the band.  There was not one night where I didn't feel GNR gave everything they had.  I was at the Vegas shows and they were amazing, but so was Albany and MSG in 2002, and the Hammerstein shows in 2006.

Yes it's cool so many people are "back on board", but it'd also a little annoying i had to jump through hoops and buy resale tix just to get GA, because a bunch of fans have come out of the woodwork.

Like I said I share your excitement, but haven't even thought of shitting on the previous lineups.

You see that because you want to see it.

I'm not trying to single you out, don't get me wrong.  But there are a handful of folks that are searching each thread for every slight (real or simply perceived) and expounding a lot of energy righting that wrong, as they see it.  And for what?

Quick example.  All of our friends know that we stayed fans this whole time.  So now they ask you about this tour versus, say, the last 3-4 tours.

You say :

"Look, the other tours...they were what they were, and they were fine.  But this is obviously what I would prefer and am really looking forward to it."

Is that a diss of a previous line-up?  Not to me.  It's an honest answer.

I think you are swimming upstream if you are going to insist on equal time, equal praise, and equal standing for all line-ups and era.  It's just not going to happen.

I will agree that it's not right to totally shit on the past 15 years.  We did still all follow it and enjoy it on some level.  To say we did not would be a dishonest opinion and total revisionist history, in my view.

But I can't see threatening to hold my breath until I turn blue if someone dares not put this 2016 tour on the same level as tours in 2006 or 2002. 

No one is trying to change your mind.  But you are going to lose yours insisting you will ever change everyone else's.

As the Big Chief is prone to say, and I agree with him on this point : "just enjoy the shows"

This post title is too vague and general.
Define "everything"?
Define "better"?

Does the return of Slash increase ticket sales? Yes.
Does the return of Slash increase public awareness and acceptance of the the GNR name? Yes.
Does the return of Slash equate more validity and legitimacy of the GNR name in the eyes of casual fans and mass public? Yes.
Therefore, it could be objectively argued that Slash makes these areas of the band "better."

However, does the return of Slash objectively make GNR's music better? Now that is debatable.
Does the return of Slash mean that GNR is a tighter, more skilled band? Now that is debatable.
Does the return of Slash improve Axl's vocal and stage performance? That is debatable.
Does the return of Slash and his playing of CD songs make CD better? That is debatable.
Does the return of Slash mean that all GNR fans are more satisfied, fulfilled, and happier? That is debatable. Remember, there is an entire generation of young people who "discovered" GNR through the new lineups. Their "first impression" of the band could have come in 2006, or 2012, or 2014. We never know when many of the newer GNR fans came on board. For them, the reunion is only a retro thing, but a "break up" of the band they first came to know and love. So, it is debate. Remember, GNR toured with the new line up for well over a decade and made a lot of new fans, memorable live performances, and legendary memories.

If by "better" you mean more ticket sales and more public acceptance and the return of the casual fans, then yes, the return of Slash improved those aspects.
However, Slash, without Axl, was not "better"? Velvet Revolver did not sell out stadiums. Slash with Myles Kennedy does not sellout stadiums. Slash's Snakepit did not sell out stadiums. CD was, in my opinion, much more epic, grand, melodic, catchy, and timeless than any music Slash produced as a solo artist.
So, as many have said multiple times- it is the chemistry of Slash and Axl that highly increase public awareness and "acceptance" of the GNR band. It is the chemistry of Axl and Slash that generate more hype and push more ticket sales.
I think the title of the post is misleading.

But, I guess the point of the title was to provoke interest and stir debate.

Define "chemistry"?

Other than that, I agree with your post @SkeletorSerpent  : ok:

I'd agree.

And I think big picture is the best way to look at it.

The overall vibe, excitement, and overall acceptance of this tour as a big time event is enhanced, GREATLY, by Slash's return.

Just speaking from a personal level, I have been listening the hell out of that second Vegas bootleg since I got it.  The songs sound better, in my opinion.  Are both because of Slash's return?  Yes.  Yes, they are.

Most kids know Slash via Guitar Heroe so they know GNR via that as well when they investigate where Slash plays and used to Play. So he has brought lots of new fans to this regrouping aswell! Not only the 80s fans :peace:

Look, this may be the elephant in the room.  But fuck it, when have I ever been shy?

The best thing about Slash coming back is that we never have to hear "well, it's not really Guns N' Roses" from anyone ever again.

I can only speak for myself, but I love that to death.  No more qualifiers, caveats, or tortured rationalizations.  That alone makes his return worth it.

Hey jarmo! What's up man?

I was referring to just the long periods of no news or concerts in years past... mainly the lack of press releases or news/activity. It's been pretty much full steam ahead since Jan. Which is a nice change.

Yeah I just think Slash fulfills that original style and feeling that Guns N' Roses was meant to be.

Hard rock mixed with some blues in there.

A lethal combination of...

Rolling Stones, Aerosmith and Led Zepplin just a little. Mostly the first 2.

You mean like all those articles that came out when the regrouping was announced that claimed it was not GnR without Izzy and Steven?  Or just Izzy?  Or even had Izzy joined, without Steven?  Or Matt Sorum?  lol

Using this logic, Kanye West is better than GNR because his music sells more.

GNR is more popular because of Slash, popular dosent mean quality. Its all a matter of taste...

Well, that's some inside baseball type stuff.  The general public never goes that deep.

I just got so tired of the overwrought explanations with people I would get into conversations with.  Didn't all of you?

Yeah, Guns N' Roses is my favorite band, no doubt.  Well, yeah, the old Guns N' Roses.  The Guns N' Roses you know.  Yes, it is a shame what happened to those guys.  Yep, they are still around.  The new band and the new stuff is actually not bad, but I could see how people don't dig it or accept it.  Yes, I do still go to the shows.  No, it's not the same, in my opinion.  But it's still a chance to hear Axl, which is still worth it to me.  Oh, fuck off with that crap?  Indeed I will.  So...how about that local sports team? 

Yeah, like I said, I guess I was focusing on other things.

The past decade has been pretty fucking cool. We got concerts every year except 2008 and 2015. But there were other things going on those years..
So yeah, I must've missed those horrible times. Or I'm not worrying that much about what didn't happen 15 years ago at this point. :)

More great times are coming. 8)



/jarmo

I see your point, 'better' is a subjective term. I would say that not only was AFD and UYI more popular, and sold better than CD... but the material is better (quality). Again this is a subjective discussion but I can't see many people putting the best CD track much inside the top 10 of tracks from the other 3 full length studio albums.

Like was mentioned above your take on the band is going to be rooted in when you discovered them, how many times you saw them live, or your participation in the experience of new material. I can see someone loving the 01-02 lineup, or gushing over TIL or Madagascar because you rushed the doors at a Best Buy in 2008. Some of us watched video launches on MTV, some of us saw their first appearance on Headbangers Ball, some of us saw the Ritz show air for the first time, or watched them accept awards... I was at a local record store for UYI and even the Spaghetti Incident.

Unless you became a GNR fan because of CD, I can't really understand someone who's not happy with Slash's and Duff's return. For me, Slash and Duff returning is the return of GNR, the guys who made all that records that we love, so it's not even a matter of discussion. I would love to have Izzy, but I won't even start on that one. Besides, I'm really happy with what we have right now.

Doesn't matter to me that Buckethead, for example, is technically a better guitar player. That's not the vibe of the band to me. Never was, never will be, quite the opposite actualy. IMHO five Bucketheads doesn't worth one Slash. And I'm not being disrespectful to him, his work or anyone who's a fan, it's just that he doesn't belong and it has nothing to do with the music I love and the reasons why I became a fan many decades ago. But that's just my opinion.

This! Great post. I couldn't agree more  : ok:

Thanks to Slash the band is once again great live! If they get in the studio and make a new album, which I'm sure they could with all the stuff they have floating around between them it would be just incredible!

This thread has gone down a lot of different paths..hard to keep up with which argument is which.

For me though, its a simple attitude of, the guitarist that was part of making the best music GNR have released is back. And for most fans (i accept not all) this is what matters and the music and the band is closer to being back to what it should be than what it has in 23 years.

For those who like CD era... they still have 3 band members (Axl, Frank, Richard)... its kind of a win win for both groups of fans.

Put simply.. i am happier now than i was 12 months ago... a lot happier and what GNR is achieving right now is huge.

Great time to be a fan! 

 

Even if you did become a fan during that era, you obviously checked out the back catalog.  

If we are operating under the premise you hadn't heard any of it.  Like, if you have never been in a car.  Or near a radio.  Or a TV set.  Ever.

You checked out AFD and the UYI albums at some point.  Are you honestly going to sit here and say you didn't like them?

If Chinese Democracy was what got you into Guns N' Roses, a fair chunk of that band was out of the picture, and had been for some time, before this current lineup came about.  Finck, Buckethead, Brain, Paul Tobias, Bumblefoot...

I'd wager a guess that less than 1% of fans got into Guns n Roses off the back of CD.

Sure, but if someone became a fan because of CD and that kind of sound, even though those musicians were long gone by the time of the last tour, Slash probably won't be the best guitarist for that person. He's even further from the Buckethead era than the last lineup IMO. Doesn't matter if this fan already knew AFD/UYI or not.

You can easily find people in the fan forums that think CD is the best. I surely don't agree, but I'm not gonna be the one to say "no you don't really think that".

And this is obviously not the case for the majority of fans, I only said that to exemplify that this is the only situation I can understand someone not being happy with Slash's and Duff's return.

I have always rejected this premise.

This is a band with staples of FM radio.  Everyone has been in a car.  With staples in culture.  Anyone at a sporting event, ever, has heard 'Welcome To The Jungle'.

I just cannot accept that someone heard that there was this band called Guns N' Roses was touring in the mid 2000s, and dedicated their time to finding internet leaks of a (at the time) theoretical album, with no stopping off at the classic material first.

Even if you got into GNR in 2005, you weren't looking for the 'I.R.S.' that you hard Mike Piazza had a copy of.

You can't reject the premise that some people like CD songs more than they like AFD songs. So CD might not necessarily got them into GN'R. But they still might like those songs more than the classic hits

Oh no, I would not reject that premise.  Absolutely not.

But I tend to big a big picture guy.  I'm sure such people exist in some number, but that number is infinitesimal.

Guns N' Roses?  Love 'em.  'Welcome To The Jungle', 'Paradise City', 'November Rain'.  Excellent.  And, of course, that stuff with the other line-up.  With the guy with the bucket.  Decent.

Guns N' Roses?  Love 'em.  'Chinese Democracy', 'Better', 'Street Of Dreams'.  Excellent.  And, of course, that stuff with the other line up.  With the guy with the top hat.  Decent.

If you had to break down the percentages among our fanbase, is it even 90/10?  Would 95/5 be more accurate?

Huge Slash fan here and I am delighted he is back, but his sound is not as good as it has been with SMKC.  At least not yet. 

I think there are a number of reasons for this.  He is far too low in the mix, the song tempos are way faster and he is struggling to keep up and he used to playing with a more laid back rhythm player.   

If they slow the songs down a bit and bring him up in the mix I think he'll be back to his best in no time. 

I didn't really pick up on the quicker tempos initially.  But the say everyone kept harping on it, I began to listen for it.

It's a legit beef.  But, perhaps something they correct before Detroit.  The band doesn't need Axl to sort that out in the interim.

The faster tempo might has its purpose. Maybe they are looking for more punk sound of the songs. I don't mind, as far as I'm concerned they do sound amazing. That's all that matters.

The tempo has been a huge concern for me, especially on the ballads (NR and Estranged)

It takes away these song's emotions, especially on the solos... Take the NR's first solo for example. The notes need to "breath" between one another if you know what I mean. With the faster tempo, the solo feels rushed, so does the song.

And on the faster songs, the faster tempo takes away the "swag". It also feels rushed and too punky to my taste

A slower tempo would also help Axl IMO, since his out of breath problem has been a huge concern these past years

If youre talking about the sound level he had in the Illusions, please, no. Gilby was way too low.

There's nothing wrong with Slash's level in the mix IMHO.

^ people that can say such things, and people that say bucket doesn't play with feeling/soul...

i have to guess that you've never listened to buckets electric tears album in full.

From the Periscope feeds, I noticed the same.  It's hard to ignore, actually.  The pace set by the drummer, especially on PC, is frantic.  But given that the tempo has been forced every show from the clips of the 6-7 shows since they've "reunited," it must be intentional.  For the reasons you stated, it's hard to imagine how this benefits the songs (especially PC, and, as you noted, the solos).  Maybe this was occurring live over the past decade (and now is a given as the drummer remains the same) and I simply didn't notice it as I saw them live just once during that period and wasn't one to watch YouTube clips of the revolving incarnations of the band?

I'm quite sure they are playing the songs at a tempo the actual band is in agreement on, if not it would have been remedied after the first show.

Lol at all these would be amateur  musical arrangers and hobby drummers that climb out of the woodwork to critique GNRs and the tempo(s) they have obviously chosen and rehearsed.  :hihi:

Do.....they have ears?

Because all I've seen is stuff discussed that can be conformed by anyone with ears.

Why do you treat so many general observations about events as threats, demands, or both?

The songs are a little quick.  That's all.  No one's taken a hostage.

love the sig dx.

i think gnr also has ears, and agree that the tempo must be intentional.

Of course it is intentional. Probably to get a sense of urgency and adrenaline.

When the new band played live for the first time in 2001, they also used a faster tempo - at least compared to the Illusion era. I noticed it more in It's So Easy, WTTJ and Nightrain.

Maybe it's more noticable now because DTJ is "new" and because we are used to listen to Slash playing those songs in a slower tempo.

I remember from Tokyo 2012 Axl's IEM bootleg, they're using a click to keep the songs tempo the same intended. I don't know if they're using it now, and I don't know if Slash used to have it in his bands.

I thought I was the only one who noticed they are kinda playing in a faster tempo! I noticed it more in the Mexico concerts...for instance  .Slash solo shows he always plays the songs in a faster tempo than the original recordings, even his own songs.  Maybe is his influence? Axl definitely agrreed on it anyway.

Coma was faster one Mexico night and for me thats bad. Real bad...this song is dark and its slower tempo is a must! (a fan and not pro musician standpoint ok?)

Your little perceptions, as usual- are off.

Big difference in a general observation and a negative critique about the songs "being played too fast" but you are probably drawn to negativity given your posting history.

The tempo is intentional, apparently it is approved by members of the band, so the wannabe music directors can get over that.

I hardly think Frank has taken everyone hostage and is playing a tempo of his own choosing, regardless of what the others think- that is a silly premise.

The songs are a bit quick.  This is not up for debate.  A comparison to past tours, which takes all of 30 seconds, confirms this.

However, as it pertains to you, this is one of two things :

1) You also recognize they are a bit quick.  But, as usual, find verbalizing that stone cold fact of life to be treasonous and seditious behavior no "real fan" would engage in.  That's a bit weird.

2) You dispute the songs are a bit quicker than they have been.  That's just straight up denial.  Given how "amazing" you assured us Axl sounded in 2012, this is probably our better bet.

But where a general observation differs from a critique is when a person (like me) says that the 4/9/16 Las Vegas show is the best show in years and that person (again...me) says he's been listening to it non-stop.

They are a bit quick.  It's not the end of the world.  But it's there.  That's just life in the big city. 

There's no right or wrong, my friend.
It's just a matter of taste.

Of all the songs tonight, that's the one I want to have a decent video of that I can throw on my FaceBook page ASAP.

I think it 's going to be awesome.

None of those 3 little choices at all.

The tempo is a bit faster on some of the songs than the studio versions, but so what? If you want to hear the studio versions play the damn record and don't go to shows.

The "faster tempo" claim is being used by some "fans" to take shots at Frank, when it is clearly intentional the band has determined to play at these tempos.

The faster tempo of some songs is a non-issue, GNR still sounds great so I don't really understand why some take issue or state their "supposed concern" about the tempo.

The only one I think it doens't really work is 'Rocket Queen'.  That's a groove song that could use a little move groove.

But this band has played all of 5 shows together.  They'll figure it out.

I dont want to sound like a negative guy but take Dont Cry for instance.... fast tempo makes it sound a cheesy ballad imo...c'mon guys you can do it right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vZuE0w4B-E

EDIT: After listening to Axl on ACDC rehearsals...listening to this makes me wonder...why no rasp in GNR Axl??? He definitely can do it!

The band that wrote said song is definitely playing it "right".

If you want the album version, play the album.  ::)

Opinions vary, I think they have it "figured out" already.

i get that. but i really do recommend the album to those that haven't heard it. you will see that bucket is more than just technique.


looks like you got your wish!

Been reading the forum the last couple of years in a passive way.... (Thanks Jarmo and company for keeping up with your passion!).

I really appreciated the "new gnr" era (saw them in madrid 2006, bilbao 2006 and san sebastian 2010). I am grateful for Axl and the rest of the often sadly called "hired guns" for keeping up the goods. I truly believe cd is a masterpiece I'll never get tired of listening to...but I simply can't believe some of the things that are coming up these days:

- slash: who can really critizise his takes or solos in the cd song????? They are amazing. They move, they're emotive. It's fucking Slash, common. Just his presence should be enough.

- Dj Ashba:  he has been a down to earth feel good presence and member. Great playing. And now he is being critized for just saying that Axl wanted him in the reunion????? DJ, bumble, robin, bucket...we should all be grateful for their services and dedication. Sure, they all got well paid for those services, but as we say in Spain "de bien nacido es ser bien agradecido"!

Emily poking others for having a different opinion as usual...  ::)

A very easy answer for songs being played a bit faster, is to program set lists to make sure they squeeze in every ounce of music they can get without going overtime, and maybe its a bit easier, its not like you turned a 33rpm record into a 45rpm.lol

there hasn't been a guitarist i havent liked yet, including slash. gnr has always been the go to band for some of r and r's best guitar work, imo anyway.

Whether you choose to agree or not they have straight up fucked up a few songs with people jumping in too early... once or twice Frank and at least once by Richard during SCOM in Vegas. Not the end of the world... it will be fixed... You don't need to fight so hard, we get it, you get defensive. It happened during the UYI tours, it happened with Robin and DJ during the CD tours and it will continue during the Not In This Lifetime tour... people make mistakes. They aren't musical robots.

I also say if you want to hear the note for note album version stay at home and listen to the damn album.

Not fighting at all, fed up with internet nerd fanboys attempting to provide unsolicited amateur advice to GNR as to what they "need" to do.

The vocal minority of e-experts and armchair quarterbacks are on my last nerve.

I am with Emily....and I am waiting for the "Axl makes everything better thread"....seems like he pretty much nailed the AC/DC thing. Imagine when he is up and rocking all over the stage with Angus.  :-*

Hell, I should've made the entire post bold!

These types existed 10 and 15 years ago on the online forums.  It's as if they fancy themselves Axl's protective and apologetic mother or venture about as a tight-knit minority of abrasive, contrarian folks experiencing some sort of group derangement.  If a fan states a fact, such as the current drummer sets a meth-like tempo (regardless of whether it is intentional) or Gn?R, as a ?band,? has published 15 songs of original material from 1991 to date, they rabidly attack and demean the fan stating the fact.  If the fan retorts with more facts, say, the current replacement drummer pushes the songs at least a half-step into something eyebrow raising or notes that the "band" has produced 15 songs in 25 years and counting, then it is full-on personal attack.  These types hate facts, like the "band" has a 1:1 ratio of band members who have quit/been fired to songs published in the last quarter century.  15 members, 15 songs, 25 years.

Does Slash (and Duff) kill their material?  Hell yes!  Hence the U.S. stadium tour, which includes adding double dates, after a decade plus of half-empty U.S. arenas.  Axl had to eat his words, "not in this lifetime."  But he has acknowledged it with a sense of humor!  So, it's time for fans to rock this summer and beyond!

Half empty shows?
Exaggerated big time.  Us shows were close to full!

When was the last time (prior to the current slate of stadium shows) that Gn'R has set stadium shows in the United States?

2006?

"The Chinese Democracy Tour 2006 was a concert tour by Guns N' Roses promoting their upcoming album Chinese Democracy. It started in May 2006 when the band launched a European tour, headlining both the Download Festival and Rock in Rio Lisboa. Four warm-up shows preceded the tour at Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City, and became the band's first live concert dates since the short 2002 tour."

Try Again.

Didn't he play in Meadolwands, packed house in 2006?

I see it was the arena!
So 1993?

 :smoking:

So, let's all rock out this summer and beyond to Gn'R!

The Hammerstein gigs were just the first 4. They did a NA Tour later in that year that ended with sold-out gigs in LA at the Gibson Amphitheater. And you first said "half-empty US arenas" wich is plain wrong. You did try to shift to the "it's not stadium". Nice try.

At the end of the day: so fucking what if they didnt had full stadium shows? This isn't about selling tickets. Obviously that Slash sells way more tickets than DJ Ashba. But they didnt even had a proper NA stadium tour back in the day without a huge co-headliner.

I dont get this thing people keep bringing about the commercial performance of the band. I give a total of zero fucks about it. If all you care about is the general public perception, then they should just stick with an AFD set with Dont Cry and November Rain. Those people dont even care about stuff like Estranged.

go get them Voodoo....last I checked, Slash and Duff are hired hands too now....I am all in either way but some people need to get the fuck over it, enjoy the shows, and hope it results in some new Gnr music.

I'm no "type" simply a supportive fan, take your negativity and mistaken facts and follow the directions in my signature.

LOL internet nerds and their try hard critiques.Someone please send me a memo when there's really something to complain about.

it's not a good angle. more commercially successful does not equal objectively better. if it did, one direction would be way better than gnr.

it's cool to see the band do well, and the reunion is surely magical in its own way. im not trying to take anything away from it. but guns has always been awesome.

Another contrarian offers nothing other than...contradiction.  I was physically present at one of the half-empty arena shows in 2011.  Cite a source, bro, of a single stadium tour by Gn'R after Slash and Duff quit.  You can't because it never happened.  In 23 years.  Until, of course, the current slate of stadium shows.  Throughout the summer and fall of 1991 and until Metallica signed-on to a different leg, there was no "co-headliner."  Facts are irrelevant to these types.  And nice shift from U.S. to "north American" in the language, but it matters not as Gn'R could never schedule a tour of U.S. stadiums without Slash and Duff.  Axl had to eat his words, "not in this lifetime" and something to the effect that "one of us will die" before there is a reunion and his whole deal that somehow he could blow "old Guns" out of the water.  A for effort in trying over 23 years.  But didn't happen.  Except for the contrarians and historical revisionists, for the millions of others of old and returning fans, it is high times in Gn'R fandom!

For some songs, yes that was the case atleast for the 2009-2014 era. You can always hear Frank count in songs like Street Of Dreams which start on the piano only, They didnt do that on any previous tours.

Maybe I missed the point of these posts, but if you want to stick to facts: GN'R didn't really tour stadiums without Metallica in the USA. I think the two shows in Florida at the end of 1991 were in stadiums. The rest were mostly arenas....

So in a way, the upcoming shows will be a new experience for GN'R. And in a way, doesn't it mean GN'R are more popular than before?  8)




/jarmo

Where did I ever say they did a stadium tour in the 2001-2014 era?

But hey, you're pretty good at statistics. You've been to one single show in 2011, so it MUST mean that the majority of the several US shows they did in 13 years were all in half-empty. : ok:

Give me a break:

That's what I meant. We're talking about tours, not individual shows.

LOL, I didnt want to use NA for semantics, it's just the way I'm used to call it since 2002.

And again, youre talking about popularity and "old and returning fans" which can always be translated to "casual fans and newbies" and I could care less about them. But whatever rocks your boat. Must be really sad to have to hear those CD songs being played, huh?

Gn?R headlined in ?91 before UYI were released.  I was at Hershey Stadium that summer.  Skid Row opened.  Great times!!!  It wasn't until the following summer that Metallica opened for Gn'R.  Metallica diehards used to say "co-headlined."  Don't recall if that's how it was promo'd.  To argue that Gn'R would not have headlined U.S. stadiums without Metallica that summer (the summer after UYI were released) is simply contrarian.  And it attempts to prove a negative.  The fact remains that the UYI tour was the last time Gn'R headlined U.S. stadiums.

Slash (and Duff) make everything better measured by U.S. stadium ticket sales.  This fact devolves into personalized attacks by contrarians and revisionists.  In essence:  "Personal insult, personal insult.  And Gn'R only headlined U.S. stadiums because Metallica opened."  When one notes that the current drummer sets a faster pace, he's set upon with more personal attacks.  To paraphrase another poster, anyone with a set of ears can hear it.  Contrarians proceed to bully said poster.  It?s humorous, in a sense, as back in the day before the net fans debated whether Axl was just a studio singer as he could not vocally reproduce to some?s liking on stage.  It was common knowledge that he never sound checked as we waited outside to rush the field (or floor), so many found his complaints about the monitors ruining his voice/the show convenient excuses.  To me, fans arguing such were outrageous, but many treated it as demonstrable fact after late starts became the norm and after the riots, esp. the one in Montreal.  In any event, this was no cause to demean and disrespect those fans.  Perhaps decorum and personal dignity in the next generation of fans has gone the way of rock music/industry as a whole.

To answer your question, why not, it could happen.  New(er) straight ahead rock bands/my faves on Octane never seem to break out and tour only arenas in the U.S.  Untold numbers turned their backs on Gn'R by the late nineties, but perhaps those numbers will be replaced by a younger generation?  Seems unlikely in the absence of new material and given ticket pricing, but who knows?  My friends have flatly rejected the singer, so have zero interest in the partial reunion?hence my (and likely many others?) return to the online forums.  But the contrarianism and personalized attacks from a handful trivializes the experience, and likely drive returning (and perhaps new) fans away from online forums, particularly first generation fans who are too old to tolerate personal insults.

With Duff n? Slash, Gn?R is headlining U.S. stadiums again for the first time in a generation!  Duff, Slash and Axl are rocking this summer and beyond!  And I believe, for other reasons, that this trio has a surprise or two in store for fans...

Metallica didnt open for GNR, it was a co headline tour. They actually had their stage with the snakepit,etc and played well over 2 hours! The opening band was Faith No More.

Ok, so we found another stadium show. Great.
Toronto was also in a stadium. But that's not in the USA.. ;)




Nobody's arguing anything, just reminding you of history while you keep twisting and turning.
The fact remains, GN'R didn't do a proper solo stadium tour of the USA. Sure, occasional shows on tour that were mostly in arenas or those sheds.

So yeah, twist this into being an attack on the past or whatever the fuck you're trying to do. Good luck!


By the way, it was promoted as a co-headline tour.




/jarmo

Says the one who keep twisting things up, ignoring facts (there was no stadium TOUR back in the 90s) while calling others "contrarians and revisionists". ::)

You mean other than all the stadiums Gn?R headlined in the U.S. in ?91 and ?92.  Count ?em up.  Wikipedia does the work for you.

Or do you mean Gn?R wasn?t TOURing when it headlined U.S. stadiums in ?91 and ?92?

Facts are pesky.

The last time Gn?R headlined U.S. stadiums was during the UYI period?before and after the UYI release.  Twist and turn that fact.

To your red herring:  Gn?R had top billing for the 1992 leg of the tour.  Look at the top name on a poster from those dates.  And Gn?R closed the shows on those dates.  Twist and turn those facts.

If you?re making an argument, you've lost me.  Gn?R is headlining U.S. stadiums for the first time in a generation.  That?s presumably a great thing for fans and the band itself.  It is for me, anyhow.

You're the one arguing AFTER facts are pointed out to you.
Read what I said, and then respond after you understand it. Not when you think you understand or whatever.

The fact remains, GN'R didn't do a proper solo stadium tour of the USA. Sure, occasional shows on tour that were mostly in arenas or those sheds.

You're arguing about shit that's insignificant and you're fighting a losing battle against facts.... Have fun!




/jarmo

Which was a god damn pipe dream the past few years.  But look at us now.

Isn't that really the overall point here? 

Like I said, in some ways GN'R are more popular in 2016 than ever before....

Edited to add:
I'll spell it out for those who are quick to take offense. GN'R never did a solo stadium tour in the USA or sold out stadiums in New York, Chicago, Boston or Los Angeles on their own before.
Sure, they did play stadiums on the GN'R/Metallica tour and the occasional stadium on the 1991 tour. So keep repeating it.  :hihi:



/jarmo

I think that is the whole point...

For me... I can finally say GNR is back where it's supposed to be ... at the top of the food chain... This summer... I am going with a group of 16 people to see Guns N Roses... something that was never going to happen at any point over the past 15 years....

So for that reason alone... "Slash makes everything better"

I think it's the combination..... The sum of all parts.



/jarmo

I agree.

Well, back in the day they were big, but they were still creating their legacy. The band is huge now because of all their hard work combined with several years of people discoverying their awesome music. With Slash and Duff back, it all fits toghether again and it just works. Makes sense to me.

Still not everything, IMO. What I do agree is that he makes A LOT of things better.

BOOM

There it is.

I couldn't get 16 people to go with me the past few years if I bought their tickets.  This year, several folks were angling to be my +1 for the Nightrain presale.

What a difference a few years make.  And it's absolutely positively awesome.

Ya know what I can't wait for?  On 7/1, standing in the front of GA, turning my head to see a completely sold out Soldier Field behind me, all there to see "my band".  Something only the dynamic of Axl & Slash together could do.  It's gonna be magic.

This should be obvious to everyone.

The guy who got my tickets for Chicago never cared for seeing Slash without Axl or Guns without Slash. And I think you'll find a lot of people who were of the same train of thought

That's what I am looking forward to most as well.

I have been going to concerts for 20 years in big, sold out buildings.  I'm talking basketball arenas and football stadiums.  And I always scanned the crowd right before the show with total envy that "my band", as you so aptly put it, could never get their fucking shit together so they could do this too.

And now, the wait is over.  A wait I figured would last the rest of my life.

I don't know I would go quite that far.  But the reality is, I've never seen Slash live in any capacity.  Seen Axl, but not Slash.

He's done this in another topic as well. I guess it's his "thing"  :hihi:

On topic: I think it's what Jarmo said already....the sum of its parts. Axl, Slash and Duff have a magic that they separately don't have. That's something that people want to see. Now add the legend and myth that has become attached to their history and BOOOM! you have a combination that sells alot of tickets.

And, honestly, Axl with AC/DC is perhaps the best commercial possible for their own tour.

The clips are already everywhere.  And all agree that Axl sounds incredible.  Like it or not "yeah, but can Axl still sing?" was a hurdle this tour had to overcome.

But that pro-shot 'Rock Or Bust' leaves little doubt.  Yeah, he can still sing.

Guns N Roses are big again now simply because Slash is back! He's the man that people want to see on stage with Axl! That's why they can do this big tour!

Haha! No, it's a combo of everyone - not just Slash.

The Axl/Slash/Duff combination is selling well.

When you tell someone you are seeing Guns N' Roses this summer, do they make a face?  Question your premise in some way?

They do not. 

What an accurate and pathetically sad testimony about a large number of the GNR fan population.  It's only about the fairytale rejoining.  Doesn't matter how much Slash's performance might be off on both the old n' nu songs as long as he's on that stage alongside Axl.  Doesn't matter that Richard has killed it every performance for the past 16 years because these fans hope he's just there until Izzy rejoins.  Doesn't matter that Axl, Buckethead, Robin, Dizzy, Chris, etc., brought us amazing songs so worthy of the GNR legacy because that's not the "real" GNR.

And it's these same fans who will fill the stadiums but go ballistic at the suggestion of a cash grab.

exactly on the money right there, slash wasn't selling out stadiums on his own. I've loved every show I've been to and I can't wait to see this line up this summer in Toronto.

the title of this thread should be changed to "slash makes gnr more marketable".

Correct.
 
Question, though.  Is it "pathetic and sad", really?  Or do you just want to pull a muscle patting yourself on the back for how you kept it real and "stayed loyal" while all of those other bastards cashed out?

Because it seems like the latter.  I really give you more credit than seriously assume that you are legit surprised by any of this.  So I'm wondering if your take up there is not more rooted in annoyance.  And this is hardly unique to you.  I'd ask the same of anyone with that similar opinion, because you are not alone on that.

Like you were the one still going down to the games every night when the team was a pushover.  Now they are back in the playoffs, and you resent the people that weren't down for the struggle like you were during the lean years, but fill the building up now.

Is there anything to that?  Do you think less of people that will be attending their first Guns N' Roses show this summer...either ever, or in 20 plus years?

Oh my goodness!!!!! The three of them being together make everything better.  Forget about the money.  Some people are so poor all they have is money.  Guys enjoy the music enjoy that they are doing something for the fans enjoy the fact that Axl is kicking ass with ac/dc, and enjoy the fact that you I and many other people are going to see some amazing shows this summer,  y'all need to chill out.  It's summer go outside❗️😘  Legit life is short.

i agree, there's a lot to enjoy right now. it's pretty fun and lots less hostile than before. people will always come try and ruffle jarmos feathers, that will never change, but i guess that just comes with the territory.

What is there to enjoy that is different than June of 2014? There is no new music...no pictures of the band...no interviews. It is just another Gnr greatest hits tour. If you like stadium shows, good for you. I like shows in intimate venues. To each his own.  :P

for me its fun because it's the first time they've toured since I've been a member here. its really fun to follow along from home. i would have been just as happy with any other lineup, but this one is really cool too. to see them slay that first night in vegas live on the periscope was unreal for me, since that was the first live performance i saw as it was happening besides the golden gods, which ended up cutting out part way through and was really short.

I do like the lineup....good to have Slash back. Simple as that really. However, selling more tickets is pretty meaningless to me....just longer lines at the beer stands!  :hihi:

Night and day, this year versus the last 2 or 3 years. 

Fans were always divided into 3 groups.  But now, the ratio is all switched around.

2013-15

- I can roll with it, it's better than nothing (biggest group)
- I am completely unhappy (middle group)
- I am over the moon happy (smallest group)

2016

- I am over the moon happy (biggest group)
- I can roll with it, it's better than nothing (middle group)
- I am completely unhappy (smallest group)

You left out a group!

-I like it but I'm still going to find things to whine about

I love all these armchair analysts and supposed experts that are going to tell people how to make their own lists. 

I'm sure they are perfectly capable of making their own lists.  They sure don't need the entitled demands of a few so called fans of lists to chime in with their unwanted advice.

I have always been a fan of lists, all categories of lists.  I had a great time with the last list I read.  And I look forward to enjoying lists in the future.

The line-up is what's different...

Even if it was not Duff and Slash in those spots and say it was oh Mike Inez and John 5 it would be exciting to see their take on the songs. Not stadium tour exciting and not as exciting as new music I agree, but still exciting.

RE the Stadium touring thing, does a few nights at the same arena = 1 stadium show?  There's been a good few of them  :smoking:

Speaking only for myself... in any band I would want as many guys who created the songs up onstage as possible. Plus a lot of us never saw Axl and Slash onstage together before this.

I get it ... a big chunk of the people here don't care who is in the band as long as Axl is singing the songs... and don't have preferences either... :)

Thanks, that's what I was gonna say!
The guys who wrote the songs we love - the reason why we are here daily having this conversations - are coming back and will play the songs live in their first tour in 23 years.
Sure would be great to have new music, and we'll always want more and complain about what we don't have, it's our human condition, but IMO it's also a big step.

I understand it is a big deal for people who never saw the real thing in their prime. I get that.

Your points were very vaild.  The communication is still next to nil, no press with the guys together.  No clue on the future.  Those are legit beefs.

It's just, the way I look at it...we already had that with the replacement line-ups.  If you aren't going to change the way you do things, but can at least give me a better line-up and one more representative of what I feel Guns N' Roses really is, that's still a net positive.

I am sorry, but this I don't get. Hasn't this always been the case with Guns? Wasn't it like this back in the 80's and 90's?

For now, I am just happy that they're playing and actually I am quite confident that they don't want to make a fool of themselves by announcing all kinds of things and then later have to retract them. I think they just want to win everyone over in the way they're doing now, so that no one can take that away from them. They're basically saying 'we don't need the press or whatever, we're doing it on our own strength'. And that seems to be working for now. Also, if you haven't noticed yet, the absence of press etc seems to only HELP them....I think it's a strategy.

I would say for any fan.
It's great that they were able to make amendments and celebrate the amazing work they did together. If they don't record any new music and go separate ways after this, it will be the perfect ending for everyone IMO. We get to see them live, not bashing each other and maybe even some new release from Axl's archive. On the other side they will make loads of money and are on good terms again. It's a win win.

After they released the video yesterday I was talking to a friend: maybe they're planning a doc or something with some shots from the Troubadour? It would be a great way to say something to the fans about this reunion and at the same time having control over the content? On those tmz videos we can see that they had cameras filming all day.

Not a perfect ending if you are a fan of Izzy......and FreddieJames, they did TONS of press from 87-94.

Most of it was Slash and Duff.  At least on the UYI tour.

Kind of thought, if they came back, they could take that up again.  We know Axl loathes it.

Though maybe we could get Angus Young to ask him to do some press for this own band.  He seems to listen to him.

I'm a huge Izzy fan, but he probably is not in the band because he doesn't want to. There's not much we can do.
Besides I still believe he will show up at some point.

Yes, remember how well that went  :hihi: I can imagine that by now they are wiser than that. Hence the absence of doing such press.

But you are right. However, what I meant was that they did things on their own terms and never specifically said 'then and then we have a record coming out'. Yeah, Axl said things like 'this song will be on a record that'll probably come out next fucking year or so'.... I take the absence of such an announcement as the absence of news to share. And I don't understand why people keep pushing so hard -or even get mad- for something that is not there (yet). If they got something to share they will. Well, at least that's my presumption.

Agreed!  This is a dream.  Anyone not in should listen to Bieber's Love yourself and call it a day!

Really Sky dog?  Nothing different to enjoy?  WOW!  LOL...

No difference at all.  Only Slash, the legend, replacing two no names in Ashba and Bumblefoot.   

I Prefer Axl/Dc This Discussion Slash, Gnr, Axl, etc, etc,, Nothing Import

 :hihi:

thanks for updating me on the obvious....however, I honestly don't hear much difference in the quality of the music on the classic songs. I do find the newer CD era material interesting though....more my style. The band will be tight by the US tour and Axl will be completely on top of his game if he survives the next month!

I just hope if Izzy joins them for a song or two, Fortus steps off stage and doesn't play too, essentially obscuring Izzy's contribution.

Axl-DC is a novelty flavour, you'll soon get over it,as nice as it is  ;)

i get where you are coming from. but according to axl, cd2 and cd remix were done. we were told that a long time ago. so of course we're anxious for them.

there was the idea going around before the reunion kicked off that cd and its sequel would be laid to rest for good if the reunion were to take place, but seeing slash play cd tunes has squashed that notion, at least for me, and I foresee him playing on cd 2 and maybe even the remix. i dont see them scrapping everything that was done and starting a new album since axl has always seemed to work on music for a long time. just look at the history of november rain... not much has changed in that regard and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I find it funny how people sign up for this board now and act like complete asses towards those who have enjoyed the band through all these years and might actually like some of the members who were in the band during those years.

that is a good point.

This is interesting.

Because one of the tenets of this board is how it lives in the now.  At least, that's the sales pitch I've heard for years.  We were to support the band in its current incarnation, and not dwell on the past.  So spare us your stories about Slash and Duff and way back when.  Because DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot were the order of the day now.  If you wanted to fight those battles about past members, scoot on over to Dead Horse, will ya?

What's different now?  The 'Not In This Lifetime' tour and the current line-up should be all of our our focus, no? 

Or is it making sure Robin Finck gets requisite love here in the big room.  Despite being out of the band for 8 years now.

That's not a little off?  At the very least, inconsistent?

I have no sympathy for the people that supported the old band and are unhappy now. 
Slash got destroyed on this forum on a daily basis for many years.  Anyone who said anything positive about him got jumped on. 

He's back now.  There are sections on the board to discuss previous versions of the band in more detail if you wish to do so. 

Whoa, some just don't seem to get it.

I've been talking about Slash for many years on this board and I never got jumped on. But then again, I also showed respect for the then-current lineup. For some it'll always be "this vs. that" and nothing in between.

And with my previous comment I was talking about how people are directing their "insults" towards other members on this board just because they've been fans of the band even when Slash wasn't in it. It's just funny :D

Oh like that. Yeah, you definitely have a point. I kind of figured that that's a thing of the past since I can imagine they want to start from scratch. Not necessarily ditch the songs, but the recordings.... I hope they go back to a more organic sound.

I think its totally dependent on the person in question.

It's fine if someone was a fan of the other line-ups.  Everyone that posts at this board was, at least on some level, right?

But when you start saying things like all line-ups are equal...or that you hope they play 6 CD songs one night this summer....come on.  That's transparent flame bait.

You can do the whole "That's my opinion.  Am I not allowed to have an opinion?  Is this Russia?" type routine, I suppose.  I just don't know who's buying that.

Read the room, would be my suggestion.  Everyone is super into this tour, the first chance many of us will have to see Axl & Slash together.  Even if there truly is a time to talk up your love of 'Rhiad & The Bedouins', or how Robin Finck was the best guitarist in band history....this?  This ain't that time.

Not,,, My Favorite Bands 4Ever Was AC/DC & GNR And NOW Together

 :smoking:

I think it's pretty clear now how what kaasupoltin said is true. You just don't seem to get it.

Since you're trying to pull rank by age... I've been here longer than you my friend.

This isn't about who was in the band and who is in now. Stop trying to twist it around man. Most of us like the current lineup better than Nu Gn'R. We just do. Most people like Slash better than Robin or Buckethead at lead guitar. Most just do.

I don't even count Ashba. I think Thal was very very good. Robin is great. We just like Slash more. Most of us. Most of the world does. They just do.

Some things are true whether you want to believe them or not. Nu Gn'R is over... what is happening is cool.

Way too many Anti-Slash people here. It is very evident. Makes me sick actually. Oh well.

(For those that get all wound up over the term "Nu Gn'R" please grow up. It is just my simplified way of referencing a specific era in Gn'R history which was 1998-2014)

Nope. This tour, this thing we have.. it is all about Axl and Slash together. End of story. Duff is great and a large piece of the puzzle and Fortus and Frank are great too, but Axl/Slash sell tickets.

They have cool names, they are iconic in look and style and... not to mention they were the next coming of Aerosmith/Stones/Zepplin until they flamed out.

They are the last true rock n roll duo that means anything. And is has been 20 long fucking years. The majority of people don't want a lot of CD songs. Because they just don't know them or want to hear them. The majority of people couldn't tell you about Robin or Bumble or anyone else in the band from 1998-2014. Most people couldn't tell you how many drummers they've had. etc etc

Then you get people here that try to rank Josh Freese or Fortus above Slash or Steven in importance in other threads.

Fucking crazy stuff. yeah it can be your opinion, but that doesn't mean it is one that has any validity or common sense to it.

Haha :hihi: Funny how you can make anything a fact these days.

yeah, hes good at that.

i think lots of people at the shows didnt know dtj or coma. probably didnt know some of
 the other songs either. are there actually any "slash haters" here? 

"nu gnr" is not over. slash and duff joined it and its still going. if it was over, chidem songs wouldnt be in the set. if it was over, cd 2 would be scrapped. i bet you it wont be. slash and duff will play on those songs. id bet money on it.

Where has this discussion gone?  LOL


Original GNR - Died the moment Adler was booted
After Original GNR - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guns_N%27_Roses_band_members

Original, and then the 723 lineups after.

One Constant:  AXL ROSE -

Slash being in the band is so crucial to the popularity.  I am biased and see Slash as the greatest ever, at least in terms of persona.  I have tix to NJ show this summer and cannot imagine what it will be like when they actually come out.

I also now want to see Axl/DC, because to me it is the same as GNR without Slash and Duff doing AC/DC songs with Angus as a guest.

 I LOVED the Bumble/Ashba/Fink/Buckethead times, because it was better than no GNR at all. 

But Slash's return has made everything better for me.  I am not saying it was bad before.

 

Adler, original?

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2lt379u.png)


In all seriousness, let's not start with the "I don't understand the meaning of the word Original" or "That line up vs the rest" discussions again.
We've done it enough by now. Thanks! :)





/jarmo

Sorry Jarmo.  Not the point I wanted to make.   I think everyone is obsessed with Axl now and Slash and AC/DC and Duff have a lot to do with it!
 It is a lot to take in.  Very surreal!

I didn't mean you were doing that, just making sure no one gets that idea from your post....  : ok:




/jarmo

ajAJajJAJajJA,,, Amazing Sticker

 :hihi:

Now it?s a ?proper solo stadium tour.?  Keep moving that target, making it more undefinable.  I'd love to be the motions judge reading a fact-pleading of yours. 

The fact remains that the last time Gn?R headlined U.S. stadiums was before and after UYI were released.  They are now headlining U.S. stadiums a generation later.  That was the subject of my comments?it's high times again for Gn?R fans of all stripes?until you weighed in and baited argument.

I?ll be at both the Philly and Jersey shows this summer.  If you?re attending either show, let?s exchange info so that you can explain to me in person what the point of your argument is.

Ok, let me explain it to you.

A proper stadium tour = the majority of shows on said tour are in stadiums used for football or baseball.
1991 tour = amphitheaters, arenas and the occasional stadium (show that you attended).

Get it? That was my point.
I didn't say they never played stadiums in the USA. It's obvious for everyone else. Why not for you? How many different ways can I explain that to you? Please help...




I love your idea that you can somehow scare me in person. What are you? 10?
What are you gonna do when I tell you your clutching at straws in person?

Please enlighten me.  : ok:





/jarmo

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Not if this argument is going to cut into quality DX & Jarmo time.

careful, jarmo knows finnish martial arts. and axl will say "finnish him" over the p.a., just like in mortal kombat. that's actually where mortal kombat got that term from, finnish martial arts events.

Don't worry, I'd love to meet both of you. Hopefully we can make it happen.  : ok:

In my book, when you go for the "I'd love for you to tell that to my face" routine, you've lost the argument. That's all.




/jarmo

That was super weird.


Anyways...

It's funny because at first, you said the 2001-14 era had "half-empty arenas". And then you tried to shift focus when corrected - they had several sold-out arena gigs - and tried to imply the band had a US stadium tour in the 90s. Again, we pointed out it was only with Metallica - without the co-headliner, there was only SOME stadium dates.

Finally, you just ignored reason and the fact that they never had a stadium tour before the current one:

I think he's confusing himself.

But tell that to his face. ;)



/jarmo

Haha, I rather not.  :nervous:

Jarmo challeging DX and Just An Urchin to a finnish martial arts combat. I can't wait to see that!

Finally something interesting is going on in this thread  : ok:

LOL! Not laughing with you, laughing AT you   :hihi:

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4jde9cJkg1qgjgm0.jpg)

As far as I know, I didn't challenge anybody to anything other than say I'm up for meeting fellow fans.
All the other shit's been dreamed up by whoever.... :)



/jarmo

Ah what a shame! I was so looking forward to the "Say That To My Face" finnish martial arts event  :hihi:

Did y'all see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJDBJt8SQVk

I normally find American humour a bit weird, but that was funny...

In his defense, I don't think he was specifically going for a physical threat with that line.  Though I do concede it could be seen that way.

All I know if that if they want to Thunderdome, it won't come at the expense of me and Jarmo sharing cheesesteaks.  Which, if you go by sports on TV, is all we ever eat in this town.

I'm begining to think this thread should be move to the Dead Horse section. So people can say things in each other's face, have finnish martial arts combats, a light saber duel or just mud wrestling

Bumping this thread because of this audio of This I Love:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8WwRPdQPZs


I can't state how much better Slash's solo sounds to me with this high quality recording... It's absolutely amazing.


Edited to add Chinese Democracy from the same source. You can hear Slash clearly on the right channel (also excellent Melissa and/or Dizzy keyboards):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE4-IGmfrO8

PoweRock !!!

Another thing that proves slash makes everything better is that when axl's voice is not as on, it doesn't matter cause slash's presence takes pressure off Axl.  Before slash's return, when Axl was off, Dj didn't have the same presence as slash so for me, it affected the overall performance of the band.

Slash makes everything more popular and comercially viable, espescially for the nostalgics. Buckethead was imo better for a modern gnr... back then.

The world didnt demand bands like oldgnr, instead we got tame bands like coldplay and that gay retro-scheise.

02-band was tight, but they fell on their ass by 2004. Tommy has explained how the album&release got fuxored by the company, so ie, 'nugnr' ended during that fail 02-tour. 

So... the debate is very silly.

Slash joined modern gnr and it fucking works. He seem to have modernised his playing while staying true to classic rock, and  fortus has grown to be lika a virtuouso.

Yeah, when I first listened to it, I thought it was just a bunch of nonsense noodling. And I stated that on this thread.

But now, as I listen to it in this quality, I can see that it actually has a structure, and he mixes really well the "emotional" parts with the fast ones.

That being said, had Slash played on the CD studio version, I don't think that it would come out this way, I think it would be more mellow.

Anyway, I think it's great this way aswell

i think one thing we can agree on is that high quality recordings make everything better.

I still think that his approach - to just jam around a main theme - can't top the original solo. Still, I do think it's amazing when he hits the right notes with Axl on top.

Hahahaha that is true.

This coolness, this calmness and this amazing skill. I just realised I haven't thought about DJ the whole summer. I like him very much but now is now :beer:

You know, I was and still am very critical about how Slash performs the ChiDem guitar solos.

As you may know, im a bootleg collector. I have downloaded everything that's available so far from this NITLT tour, and the first thing I do once the downloads are complete is to check the Chidem songs. Also attended two shows in the US.

IMHO, Slash makes everything better for this band except for the sound he provides. If you only focus in the music (not the image, not the money, not the fanbase, not the critical response, not the overall ''good vibes'' surrounding this tour and reunion), it's impossible to say this band sounds better or at least at the same level than any of the previous lineups. This may be irrelevant for 99% of the fans who are desperate to see Slash & Axl in the same stage no matter what, but you, Bruno, as the musician you are, can't tell me this lineup is sounding better than the past ones, and the main reason behind it is Slash's unhidable sloppiness. You can be sloppy in OTGM, but you CANT be sloppy in TWAT or TIL. You just cant. Do it well or don't do it. My opinion, at least.

I have myself shared the TIL version you just shared in my FB page. I did it because I also found it very nice, but I think that was a one good shot among a million missed. If you check the few TWAT versions, he just ruined them all severely. When the band plays ''Better'', when the solo comes the song gets lost in a tide of shaggy nonsense. In ''Sorry'', which can be considered the easiest task for Slash from all the ChiDem songs, he just manages to make a ''decent'' solo.

I have never been a DJ fan. In fact, I never liked him because I was comparing him to Robin and that was a fight he could never have won. But now, I have to say I miss him. DJ nailed all the ChiDem solos. When he needed to rebuild a solo, like TIL's case, he did it gracefully.

Needless to say that not having a natural shred-monster like BBF or Buckethead is a massive downgrade for the band *IF* this is a band that considers itself a band that looks to the future. If this band points to the direction of recreating the nineties and touring the world with ''greatest hits'' setlists, of course you dont need a BBF or a BH.

Im absolutely free of ''passion'' here: just talking about the sound. In all other facts, Slash makes everything better, i DO agree.

I agree that Slash's solos on Chinese Democracy songs are not as great as the original ones, although I like his solo on the title song better than Finck's version. But both Slash and Ashba are way less sloppy than Robin himself. IMHO, when playing live, he was sloppiness in person.

I do miss a technically super skilled guitarist on some songs, but I don't agree having one means evolution of the band's sound and not having one means avoiding new things. It should have a reason for not leaving Pitman's spot empty. Also, I can't see a guitar player agreeing on playing leads just for new songs, since Slash would never concede his leads on the classics.

I agree. I dont really care much about how many t shirts are they selling at the moment. I too think that musically the band has downgraded quite a lot from 2014.

They have one guitarist less than before, it makes a big difference on the chinese tracks. Yes Slash can be sloppy, putting Richards guitar low on the mix does not help. Smaller drum kit, ect.

They are still good, but not as good as they used to be imo.

Disagree!  They sound way better to me.  DJ couldn't even play SCOM....  Nothing like slash....

The other band was a replacement band.  Should have been called Axl rose band!

I know people (mainly people here) are fighting the good fight for the prior lineups, but, in every sense of the word, this lineup (call it reunion, regrouping, whatever) is better.  Hands down (IMO, of course). 

It?s weird that, whenever people are talking about how great this tour is, someone has to interject with, ?well yeah, but, technically speaking, from a musical proficiency standpoint, the prior lineups were better.?  That?s akin to Slash and Duff weren?t ?original? members of GnR?as in, no one gives a shit.  Praising the current lineup isn?t a knock against the old ones.  Why do people need to defend the prior lineups?  They were good.  They kept GnR somewhat relevant, at least, relevant to us diehard fans.  But they can?t hold a candle to this lineup now.

This band, right now, looks, sounds (Axl included) and feels like Guns n Roses.  The proof is in the pudding?sold out stadiums and tons of positive press.  The prior lineups never got this sort of buzz?not in ?02, not when Axl was killing it in ?06?not the Vegas residencies?never.  And it?s because Axl, Slash and Duff are back on the stage.  They make everything better.

It comes down to what you value and what you prioritize.

The whole time Slash was gone, the end of 'November Rain', or 'Estranged' in its entirety, never sounded right to me.  Not bad, per se, but I was very aware that I was listening to someone cover the classic songs I came to love.

So when someone tells me that they are now having that same feeling about Slash on 'This I Love' or 'Better', I get it.  You are basically making the same argument I am, so I understand the stance.

But that is where the priority comes into play.  I'll trade the classic songs that made GNR household names and legends in the game sounding on point again if the cost is the CD songs sounding, perhaps, a bit off.

Why would anyone want perfect re-creations of the CD solo's ?  It's not like we got perfect re-creations of the AFD or UYI solo's in the past ?!

Yeah, I guess that is technically accurate?but how many people does that speak to?  How many people got into GnR through Robin Finck and CD, and then were like, ?wait, they have a whole back catalog of stuff, I gotta check that out too!? 

Slash is just a fucking classic act. Really love the guy but two things have bothered me (this is not a particularly thing to Slash): I didn't like what they've done to TIL and Better.

The intro for Better sounds like the band missed a cue or something before the song begins. It's not tight.

And This I Love's solo is just a masterpiece. You cannot mess with that. Just like NR or SCOM.

I'll begrudgingly give you the 'fact' that the CD tracks could be missing something with out the extra guitar, BUT the Guns N' Roses tracks that 50k+ people are there to see sound much better. I've seen pretty much every version of this band live in person (minus the few Paul Tobias shows) and the classics sound as good this tour as they have ever sounded. Part of that is Axl sounds as good as I have heard him sound since the 90's but alo of that is also Slash and Duff. you can claim and of the previous 4 lead guitar players are more technically proficient, but Slash plays classic GnR songs better than they do, and BTW I just listened to the best live version of TWAT that I've ever heard, so there's that too...

It's never ending around here....probably their most professional and successful Us Tour ever. They sound incredible. If you want to listen to the album versions of the songs, stay at home and listen to them.

I've started to wonder if, on balance, this is the best GNR tour.

Look, cards on the table, no tour from 2001-2014 is even in the running for this title.  If that makes me a bad guy, so be it.

So its down to AFD tour, the UYI tour, and the NITL tour.  All very solid, but here is why I say what I say.

The AFD tour has a number of great shows and the band sounds great.  But its so early in their career, not much diversity of material there, obviously.

The UYI tour was the height of their popularity.  But you had Axl's never ending drama and bullshit that did cast somewhat of a pall over a tour with a number of great shows.  Yet you also had nights where either through serious substance abuse (Slash & Duff) or a dogshit unprofessional attitude (Axl) that shows suffered.

The NITL tour has no glitches.  Slash and Duff have it together musically and Axl is as professional as he's ever been.  I also have not seen one show that got poor reviews.  There was an undeniable feelgood vibe to Guns N' Roses this summer, unmatched in anytime prior.

At least, in my opinion. 

This has been probably my favorite summer of GNR fandom, narrowly edging out 1992.

Not nearly as many as you would think... sure a fair number have found it that way, but entire sections of this past tour have no idea what they are listening to when CD tracks start up. it's not a huge draw...

In a very unscientific study (pure conjecture) I would imagine that the number of people who have their panties in a bunch over the TIL solo and Better intro are greatly out numbered by the people who have stayed as far as possible away from GnR since the early 2000's because of the VMA's, the failed 2002 tour, the Bridge School benefit, the Out of Tune SCOM at the Golden Gods, etc... because that is what made the news and various music blogs. They didn't see years and years of successful touring, they saw the shitiest clips available because that is what media focuses on.

I would agree and add to that even in their heyday they never headlined a full US stadium tour (without a co-headliner). They are doing it better than ever and on a bigger stage.

Spot on.

I'm not sure what alternate dimension some people insist on calling home, but the overwhelming amount of the general public has not paid attention to this band in years.  Now, they do.

Of course, bring that up and you get told that that the 5-10 people sitting around someone at a UCAP show sure seemed to be having a good time, so....yeah.

Point may have, may have I'm saying, been lost in translation there.

I'm happier with the lack of incidents or drama than probably anything.

Face it, it would have only taken one for the "same old Axl..." narrative to once against rear its ugly head.

I had a number of people say they would never go again because of his history.  Yet I have had even more that have since seen the Youtube clips and read the reviews and lament they should have gone.

I had very few takers for this tour.  If there's a next one, I have about 20 people that want to come with.

No.  Not a chance.  Nothing can ever beat 1991.  For starters, there's only 3 GNR members in the current line-up, and they're 25 years older.

This might be the best tour they've ever had in terms of behaviour and critical response.  That's about it.

1991 was great because it was so chaotic. If riots, cancellations, late starts and Izzy quitting is what you are after, then it was the best year ever!  :hihi:

1991 was great because it was the last great line-up and they were on top of the world.  It was also the year of the best setlists, the longest and most passionate shows, the craziest antics ( and the best wardrobe  ;D ), even the St. Louis riot was better than the lame Montreal, Vancouver or Philly riots  ;D

But, in reality, if you saw them in 1991 you got a show that started around midnight, featuring only a handful of songs you know and the star of the show in ridiculously bad spirits.

What would some of you pay now to have them play only a handful of songs you know ?

 I would say it will always be their best year because thats what GNR was, danger, the music cuts slaps and punches you in the face, so obviously the people doing te music where going to be a reflection of that, or rather the source. Axls spinning like a posessed demon, channeling the energy of the music is something great to behold, also i  the 90's the audience used to move with the music as well  now they are zombies. Just look at the live footage from paradise city

I'm loving this tour and this moment more than any other, but people should stop listening with their eyes. Does a song sound wrong just because there's another guy playing it, even if he's doing it right note by note? Does a song sound right just because its creator is playing it, even with mistakes? Since this tour started, I've been reading people bashing Frank for playing "wrong" or "fast" (even on songs started by Slash or Duff) and praising Adler, even when he's playing faster than Ferrer did the night before. Have they ever watched to Ritz 88, with speed up and out of tune songs? "Hired hands" can play it right! Classic members can make mistakes too!

What I love about the current line up is that we have Slash's playing without losing Fortus' amazing rhythm playing and Frank incredible additions to the classic tunes. Not to mention Duff's powerful chorus bass. Playingwise, I'd pick 2016 band over 1985-1993 band anytime.


Bumblefoot used to play NR last solo exactly like the studio version, note by note. Not even Slash does that. He also nailed Estranged every single night. Actually, Slash misses the last section of NR first solo every gig.


I think Slash and Duff are playing better now than 25 years ago. Not to mention Axl's 1991 Donald Duck voice.