Here Today... Gone To Hell!

He fits well with this version of gnr and help slash with solos. Last thing i want is to see top hat play robins til solo. We all know how ASSbah did

And so it begins...

[sarcasm]Stop living in the past![/sarcasm]

Troll

no i think to play the chidem songs we need 3 guitar players and it will help the band while performing live. Robin suits better than any other past band members

No no don't start this crap

Look, Im a HUGE Robin fan. Really, for real. I wish he was there for the 2009-2014 tour.

But right now, there is no place for him in the band. You can't possible have anything to complain about. And don't get me started with the comparison between Ashba and Slash...

i remeber u voodoo back when we desperately waited for chinese democracy.. i respect ur opinion. sad, never get to see robin live with the band

No, absolutely not.

He is not needed right now.

Yeah, me neither. And I would really love to get to hear him playing This I Love and all the other stuff. But his whole in the band would pretty much be redundant with Slash. And right now,  l trully think the band wont need him. I do respect your opinion too and Im sorry if I sounded rude, but I think we must get over his abscence for now.

I really love Robins guitar playing style but it's more interesting to see what Slash can contribute to the songs from CD at this point.

I wouldnt mind a third guitarist even if Slash is there.

Yeah, that was one of the problems in the mid-90's. I don't think that Slash wouldn't mind too.

This isn't a more is better thing. Robin is good, and I liked him, but no


HELL no. It doesn't make sense. This whole thing of having people in this band... its so stupid.

Guns N' Roses at its root and core... and it its essence will ALWAYS be these members:

Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve, Dizzy, Matt

Why?

Because they came up together, made the most music together, were the most famous together, did the 2 year and 2 month tour together, had the most controversy together...

For me, Chinese Democracy is a great era, and a different kind of era, but it has so many different moving parts and members you just can't really call it the same thing for me. For me. (I'm trying to be polite and respectful here)

For me, the roots of Nu Gn'R are these members

Axl, Finck, Bucket, Stinson, Mantia, Bumblefoot, Pitman/Fortus/Huge

It's tough to have a root for Nu Gn'R cause it was so revolving. Fortus only played on like 1/2 the album, and Frank apparently played drums at the exact same time as Brian. I just don't know. Brian was there first and has more credits so I kept Frank off. I guess you could just lump them all together really.

I'm a beliver is longevity and creation for being a "member" of a band.

They finally got rid of the third guitar player, and now you want to bring him back ?  And you're going to bring the sloppiest of the bunch back ?

Please tell me EXACTLY what part of what song Robin (or any other third guitar player) is needed for ?

The guy wrote close to nothing for GNR and butchered classic guitar solos on a regular basis.   Even Ashba was better !  And that's saying a lot ...

And to further elaborate on your point Brian wasn't there first either. We can't forget about Josh Freese who laid down the majority of the drum tracks for most of the songs. Brian talks about this in an interview and how it had taken him nearly 9 months to re-record Josh's parts. Brian had to get the drum tracks transcribed first, learn the parts, and  then re-record it.

As for Robin, he wouldn't fit in. He's a great guitar player but their styles wouldn't mesh.

Let's see what this band produce first before adding more members

That's just false. Get your facts straight. In the ASCAP and even in the correct CD booklet, Robin has many songwriting credits in several songs. It's been discussed a lot and people still thinks he only wrote Better.

Yeah, right. Thats just your opinion and I think you're not in the majority.

Robin Is Unique... Salvation Of GNR In Lead Guitar Theme, Particular Style,,, Love You 4Ever.

But, Actually Only SLASH Is Lead Guitar

 : ok:

A band member is a band member, it doesn't matter how much he has contributed to the band. I don't really liked DJ Asha but I can't deny the fact that he was a part of the band for example.

Josh Freese doesn't really count man. He wasn't in the band but for like 2 years, and left. That doesn't make him a full blown member. He never appeared in person with the band.

Just a few songs, 0 appearances. To me, that doesn't make him a member. You have to tour consistently and write material with the band, he wrote little without any appearances.

I personally don't count him as ever being a "member" of the band. He was just someone that passed in and left. Just my stupid opinion ya know.

Let me rephrase that.  He wrote close to nothing of significance for GNR.

And ok, maybe Ashba was just as sloppy as Robin.

shut the fuck up Nikki......7 more songs than Richard wrote.


1. BETTER
Work ID: 323536438

 


2. CATCHER IN THE RYE

Work ID: 334474378

 


3. CHINESE DEMOCRACY

Work ID: 334393698

 


4. PROSTITUTE

Work ID: 463436497

 


5. RIAD N' THE BEDOUINS

Work ID: 482479334

 


6. SHACKLER S REVENGE

Work ID: 495999098

 


7. STREET OF DREAMS

and the 2 songs played by the newest version of the new band were co-written by Robin. Apparently, Slash doesn't have a problem playing songs by Robin.

Those are all ChiDem songs.  Again, nothing of significance.

He was even sloppy on his OWN songs !

Again, its just your opinion. I get you dislike the guy, but to deny his importance in thd history of the band is just plain ludicrous.

I don't dislike the guy on a personal level.  I don't know him.  I am critical of his performances.

I have the same problem with Ashba.  I don't think the both of them were good enough to play the classic  GNR catalogue live.

I do think ChiDem is a great body of work, and Robin probably contributed his fair share to that material.  ChiDem really is a flawed masterpiece.

It just pales in comparison to AFD/UYI.

I can run with that a little bit. However, just because it pales in comparison to those 2 records (I consider UYI one long album), doesn't mean that it is "insignificant".

Just like how I don't consider certain people true Gn'R members, you don't consider UYI 2 albums?

They differ in style, and they differ in color scheme and they are actually 2 separate discs. They are 2 albums.

one recording session....only 3 full length album recording sessions. AFD, UYI, and CD.

I get the concept of that, they just pushed it all out.

Seems like by your standpoint YCBM, KOHD, BOB, DC should all be on Appetite then right?

Cause they were recorded then, written around then?

Just messing with ya man.

For me its 2 albums, pretty clear that it is.

UYI is harder edged mostly, less piano/keyboards aside from RAIN

UYII has more keyboards/piano and is a hint softer in tone. I think. It is pretty moot though I think. (the difference in sound)

What I meant with 'insignificant' is that I consider ChiDem a great album on its own, as a seperate entity.  When viewed as a GNR album, which in my book it is not, it's insignificant though.

In the same way I consider Robin a truly gifted musician, but as a member of what constitutes (in my head) GNR, he doesn't cut it.  Maybe that set of people should have toured the album, and left the back catalogue and/or the name alone. 

It's an opinion, it's something we can discuss, it's nothing we need to fight over.

If you had to describe Guns N' Roses to someone, you could leave out CD entirely and the person you were educating would not have missed a thing.

That's not to say there aren't songs there that I like.  Some, I really like.

But the album is, what as known in at the time of an emergency as, "non-essential personnel".  The album, and the subsequent line-ups, were simply a conduit for we superfans to keep Axl Rose in our lives in whatever capacity.  And in that sense, I am grateful for it all.

If a few CD songs still get played this summer, hey...salud.

However, if the people in your section happen to pick them as the only time all concert they sit down, I think one would look pretty silly chastising them for it.

It was what it was, and it got us to here.  As far as I'm concerned, its all a win.

There are three important eras in GN'R history: AfD, UYI and CD. Robin was a HUGE part of the last one.

He was a huge part of that third one, no question.

I just think the problems start when people demand equal time and equal standing.  That's a laugh line outside GNR forums.

Doesn't mean you can't like it.  Doesn't mean I don't like it.  Hell, 'There Was A Time' is in my alltime top 10 GNR tunes. 

But I'm going to tell someone it should stand along side 'Paradise City' and 'You Could Be Mine' as its peer?  Of course not.

Right there with you man. "This I Love" is right up there with me, I've never made a list, but it would be in my top 10 Gn'R tunes for sure, probably around 6-8th or so. It's up there, and I think it is better than "November Rain".

The album, as a whole just isn't something that was satisfying to me. To a lot of people. When you look at it objectively, it was 1 album, 15 songs (Oh My God) in a period of 17 years as a "band", that saw 1 original member, 2 UYI members, and like 6 guitarists in total. 3 drummer since people act like Freese was an official member, I'll throw him in.

While there's nothing wrong with this, and I enjoy the album on occasion, and my "opinion" is that it is better than Lies, but under UYI albums. It just doesn't fit well.

It is a separate thing. I mean we're all in happy times now, and the happiness you see from people should be directly indicative of how much the original guys were missed (Slash and Duff).

It will always be a separate thing. It will never be together. The cohesiveness that Gn'R had was gone by 1997. When a band puts out 1 album in 17 years, and tours several times, and you only got 4-5 new songs in 97-2009 in touring.. that's not a lot.

It isn't = and people just need to realize that. Way too many people think backwards. Robin back in the band? No man. Just no.

CD was an era yes. It was a good era, but just lacked music. This sums it up, whether some of you want to believe it or not.


AFD era 1985-1989
UYI era 1990-1993
Missing period of dead silence and internal drama era 1994-1997
CD era 1998-2014

If you just look at that, the years add up a little bit in the CD era, and that is where the critques come from. People are done with this era, thank God. It was cool while it lasted, but the older guys are back, and we are all happy.

You really can't deny the energy, excitement, and overall good vibes around here right now.

You have to work overtime to find shit to fight about.  Life is too goon right now in the GNRverse.

Yeah, I agree and it's really sad you actually have peopel wanting Finck back in.

Who cares?

This lineup could make some serious waves musically. Fortus eats Fink's lunch.

Let's use the rethoric from Thorned Rose: who cares? As long as you like, I see no harm. We as the people actually INSIDE GNR forum should know better.

Obviously lots of people care. But even tho there's a lot of Robin fans here, myself included, only the OP actually wanted him back now.

What me and some others are disputing is his importance to the band. Or you could always be like this guy:

In my book, it is GNR. It's not a religious thing, or something sacred. It's just my favorite band and an entity that went through several changes.

Obviously, the current line-up thinks that too, as they are playing it live - hell, their press release aknowledge Chinese Democracy as its latest release. And Im not denying that Slash (and Duff) being back is fucking awesome and it gives the band a much needed breath of fresh air. I just don't disresgard everything else that happened before.

I agree with that wholeheartedly....

...if, and only if...

...you know that only plays among true believers.

We are not objective.  We are superfans.  We make excuses.  We rationalize.  We put forward theories that are, frankly, preposterous once you leave these four virtual walls.

So long as we can all accept that, I'm good.

It's the people that can't that I question.  Where are you living?

I really don't see how any of this is relevant. Are we talking about general perception or are we just talking about who we think deserves to be in the GNR chapters as a relevant character instead of a footnote?

It's hilarious that anyone thinks Robin was not important to the band or should just be forgotten. If he wasn't a great guitarist do you really think Axl would have wanted him to replace slash?  ::)

I like Robin, but why would anyone want him back in the fold now?

He left Gn'R 2 times.

He's my favorite lead player in NU Gn'R. I like some of the things he worked on in CD. So who cares about any of this shit really?

At the same time, this is also a great time to discuss Nu Gn'R, since that chapter is closed, for good.

It isn't about bashing Nu Gn'R, it is about being able to truly evaluate it, since it is done.

I don't really like the terms "old" and "new". GN'R will always be GN'R for me.  Like a book with different chapters

Yeah I've thought about that way of thinking about it, and for me I just can't.

I guess maybe the transition of Gn'R, then everyone leaving besides Axl and Dizzy, it was kinda like a reset or something.

Then the revolving door of guitarists coming in around Axl/Dizzy/Tommy. That just kinda makes it feel like a separate thing for me.

In my book, it's always GNR. I jumped a few chapters when Ashba came on board and even closed the book for a while, but here I am, back in this field.

All I am trying to say is that Robin is part of the GNR history, like it or not. And yeah, it is Guns N' Roses history, even more now that Slash and Duff are back and playing Robin's songs.

Why are you insisting on this? Only one person really wanted him back now.

Axl did a lot of other stupid things, so why not ...

I increasingly look at the Chinese-era (1997-2014) as sort of Axl being flung far out onto the high seas as some sort of rock n' roll Odysseus. A fascinatingly strange, epic journey with an elclectic cast of characters along the way (Buckethead, Bumblefoot, Brain, Robin, Dj, etc.)- but still very much part of the "GNR/Axl saga" (to me at least). Anyway- now it feels like (IMHO) Axl's reunited with some of his best warriors (Slash, Duff) from the past and is getting ready to make landfall on Ithaca to reclaim his throne and bride. :peace:

As far as Robin specifically goes- always enjoyed his work (most of all on Chinese)- but Richard and Frank are the crewmates (along with Dizzy) from the journey that Axl's seemingly bringing with him- and that's cool with me.  :beer:

Because there's always this misplaced uprising and over the top support for Nu Gn'R. Even though the OP started this, and maybe it was troll 101, there's other people here that want this too, and its just a bad idea.

There's always 10 guest to 1 logged in user. More people want this, and it would be a bad idea. It isn't going tohappen so I guess it doesn't matter. So it's whatever.

Maybe because there's always those unfair (IMHO) cheap shots at those guys. People keep bringing songwriting credits desconsidering the ASCAP and correct booklet, people keep pointing out how unpopular the guy is when there's clearly people who cares.. There's a lot of reasons for that. Keep in mind, nobody is trying to do the same with Slash, tho I admit there were a lot of this before.

Yeah, there is the OP and the user rebelhipi. And that's it, they didn't even bothered to show up again. The rest of the thread is just you, D-X and Nikki trying to discredit Robin and me, Sosso and some others replying to that. :P

What? So if a guest read the topic he/she suddenly agrees with the OT? How did you come up with this?

The fact that Slash plays songs written by him could be no greater proof of its importance in GN'R history.

It is quite funny that years ago people were saying shit like oh hes only playing slashs riffs etc. Well now slash is playing some of Robins riffs......

That is brilliant.  An excellent way to imagine it.

Or, he's the rock n' roll C? Chulainn, spending ages fighting single-handed until the Ulaid are ready to fight once more...

Ha! Thanks- and thanks for the C? Chulainn reference! Some interesting reading ahead for me! :peace:

No.

Robin was a key part of the band 1997-2007. But no more.

Robin was a great player. Wrote great songs. Had lot of heart and clearly loved the band. But with the band the way it is now, he need not be in the group anymore. Slash is now playing solos he wrote. Can't get any higher a statement of his integral part in the band than *that*

Well said.

They no longer need 2 leads to play stuff.

They don't need two lead guitars for the old songs. But there is a need for them on the CD songs.

I was just thinking... It's kinda funny how Robin (and all the other guys, really) were treated in comparison to Slash now. People always demanded them to play the solos exactly like it was in the old albums. I remember clearly when Robin modified the first half of the first solo in November Rain in 2001 and people claimed it was the end of the world. He actually played it like the original solo in 2002 and eventually handed it to Richard in the same year.

I know, I know. Slash IS part of GNR sound, is a guitar hero, he's iconic and yadda yadda. Still, I do think it was unfair. I enjoy when people try new things and make them sounding fresh. It's obviously not always the case. Still, I really don't think people gave some ex-members a fair chance.

Actually, there's no need for three on CD songs either. There's almost no overlapping leads - I only can remember TWAT's ending, but that wasn't played like that in actual live gigs. The 3 guitar lineup worked for CD the same as it worked for old songs: it could get heavier because there were two rhythm guitars when one of them was playing the solo.

Robin has a lot of heart and loved the band so much, he quit during the process, only to come back and ultimately bolt before the album came out and never toured behind his own work.

Not sure this is a sterling definition of a team player.

Again, unfair. He worked his ass off in the album for nearly a decade, but the only time he got a real tour was in 2006/07. Im not sure you can blame the guy for not staying in a band with that much downtime.

What can I say?

Slash is playing Robin's stuff now yeah.

At the end the the day Robin will of played more of Slash's things than Slash playing Robin's things. Just think about that.

And yes, for that I can't blame him for leaving. I would of left too.

Wasn't the RUMOR at the time that the way GNR found out that Robin had quit the band was when Trent announced in a press release or something that Robin had rejoined and was exclusively in NIN?

I remember being really really pissed at Robin for that! (still am even though I don't know if it's true or not)

As frustrating as the situation in GNR may have been for him at the time, IMO IF that RUMOR is true, it was unprofessional of him to not give GNR even the slightest notice he was quitting.  Even a simple "FUCK YOU!" and slamming the door behind himself as he left. 

But (as is being discussed in another thread) the fact that GNR chooses NOT to address the circumstances of individual band members departures/rejoining, we probably never will know the whole story/truth.

Oh, I have very little doubt he left over the inactivity, delays, and general bullshit.  It's why everyone left the fold.

But his timing did not then, does not now, and will not ever make sense to me.  You stick around for 10 years, through all that nonsense...then bolt at the finish line.

It's like running the marathon but pulling up after 26 miles of the 26.2 and saying "you know what...I'm good."

Problem with that analogy is that he didn't know he had only .2 miles left.  So, in his mind, maybe he's thinking, (1) I can keep running until god knows how long and maybe there will be a payoff or (2) say, "Enough with this running shit" (credit to Sean Connery in The Untouchables) and just hop in Trent Reznor's car. 

He may have quit in 2007 already, at least a year before CD's release. And like Axl himself said before, he would rather be touring instead of doing "elusive promotion". But the band took so long after CD's release, it was already time for Robin to do another leg of the NIN tour. The band didnt hit the road more than a year after Chinese came out. So yeah, he kinda left the band at least two years before concrete plans on touring. Don't think that's so at the finish line as you made up to be.

Everyone in the band was on 2 year contracts and Robin's ran out around the time TR gave him the call in 1999.

Robin toured with NIN for a year and was then back in a year after he went.