Here Today... Gone To Hell!

To be honest, Steven is the only past member of GN'R I dislike. Yeah, he played some cool drumming parts on AFD. But for me, he's a relic. A living, breathing wax statue perpetually stuck mentally in April, 1990. He's childish, bitter, petty, demanding and he's just...With his Sarah Connor-style perm, even now in 2015, he would've really dated GN'R's image even more in the '90s, made them truly a subject of ridicule for the grunge bands and their fans. The guy is like the living embodiment of everything that was tacky and gross about the L.A. hair metal scene. GN'R were never a hair metal band - and they were a better band after Steven left. I know he'll probably play some songs on the tour, but I wish he was far away from Guns. For me, his biggest contribution to the world was the hilarity he helped create on Celebrity Rehab.

(http://s11.postimg.org/f95urww9v/stevven.jpg)
(http://www.writeups.org/img/fiche/685d.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uSPPiEZtEsc/UZ2PC3uPFoI/AAAAAAAAB4o/VxF4j7ILZrs/s400/Steven-Adler.jpg)

The stuck-in-the-'80s vibe is part of his charm.

I don't know if I would go as far as to actively campaign against it.  But, other hand, would not give one single fuck if he's left out. 

And would look more than a little askance at anyone that tried to honestly claim they could not see why that call got made.

The other day I posted my concerns about it in the Alice Cooper/Where's Izzy? thread but for a very different reason:

I actually agree with most of what you wrote about Steven, he is a hard guy to root for.  After watching that new documentary I like him even less.  He seems like a guy who was in it for all the wrong reasons, money/drugs/women, and not the most important..creating art!   I don't feel like Steven Adler contributed anything to "Appetite For Destruction" that wouldn't have been there without him.  I think it was Axl who said Steven didn't write one note on "Appetite" and I believe him.  

I mean I won't bitch if for some reason he is involved, I just assume why bother when GNR already has a drummer?  Not to mention a drummer who plays better and from all accounts is not a liability or a royal pain in the fucking ass. :hihi:

The fact that there has been silence from Steven makes me think he is at least slightly involved, what about you guys?  I can't imagine him being completely out of the loop on this thing and not flipping out yet.

I agree.  Risk/reward, I think.

You are introducing a variable you can do really do without, and for an upside that's pretty much all sentimental.

And what if he fucks everything up? 

Agree with every word of this.

Sadly, the part at the end as well.

For a while i thought you were talking about mr Rose... Apart from the fact that Mr Rose would pay bilions to have the hair of sarah c... ehm mr adler  :hihi:

If you don't understand how much adler counts well, you should change band.. And i'm not even a big fan of him and his persona...

If this was a tour where they were going to just play AFD songs then i could understand if Steven was involved but i think this tour is going to be more then just AFD songs and we have never seen Steven play any songs from UYI and certainly not Chi Dem and i think thats good because id like to see this line up possibly play some of the Chi Dem songs as im sure the playlist will be heavy with AFD & UYI songs but a couple songs off Chi Dem would be a really nice touch.

Wow.

You guys are so bored that you need ANOTHER thread devoted to hating Steven?  Did we not understand it the first ten thousand times?

It's long been obvious that since Slash is no longer hate-worthy on this board, you had you turn your Guns elsewhere.  Says more about you than it does about Steven, that's for sure.  Because despite your allegations that Steven contributed "nothing" to Guns N Roses, Steven still has an incredibly powerful presence in your lives.  He's obviously worth talking about ad-infinitum, and you all prove it every single time you spend copious amounts of time bitching, pissing, and moaning about him.

Really, this says it all....


A vitriolic, childish, bitter, nasty post full of purposeless insults from someone who turns around and claims the same thing is true about Steven.

Sweet jesus, look in the fucking mirror.

I don't think this has anything to do with "hating" Steven Adler, that is a childish way to look at it.  Yes we all throw a few immature insults his way, but he really does a great job at asking for them, doesn't he?   I just think a lot of us don't want that fuck up coming in and fucking up a good thing....again.  Matt Sorum can be a prick, but I don't think any of us would have a problem with him coming back to play a few songs, the guy is a pro.  It has very little to do with "hating" anyone.  I don't hate Steven, I don't even know him.  I am not a big fan of his shenanigans though.


It is one thing to deal with a pain in the ass if they are a one of a kind talent.  Steven brings nothing to the table to warrant dealing with all the baggage he brings.  He is a minus to the situation, any involvement he might have would at least to me appear to be charity by the rest of the band.  He certainly doesn't make them any better!  And they have no problem selling tickets without him.

Before his current silence, Steven has made it perfectly clear that the ONLY people who should be on any 'reunion' tour are the AFD 5 (despite the general consensus that Izzy more than likely will only do a handful of shows).  Do you honestly think he won't cause drama over having to share the stage with Dizzy, Chris, Richard and especially Frank??


Unfortunately, I agree with those that think his current silence is a sign he will somehow be included.

The-the-the Bridge, the-the-the Bridge, Queens Bridge!!   :peace:

I like Adler too, but I get the concerns with him.
 

I can only imagine this:

A drunk Steven stumbles on stage and grabs a mic and goes into a protracted, drunken rant about how Axl's "hacks and scabs" are playing where "Izzy and I" should be (IE most of the set) and how "you know, like, the fans like, are being ripped off man, I mean, look at these guys, no one wants to see them! Man, they wanna see me and Izzy, that's us, and they don't wanna hear Use Your songs, they wanna hear Appetite, cause that's our only real album man, those are the good songs, you know, isn't it bull that I only play part of the set while this piece of shit plays the whole thing man?" Cue meltdown of the band and end of the tour and reunion immediately after.

Do we really want a guy onstage with Richard, Frank and Pitman who said this:
?Axl will probably want to play [the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame] with his hack band ? his band of hacks. ?Axl and His Hacks? ? it shouldn?t even be Guns N? Roses. He?s just driving that name into the freakin? ground.?

Or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oORQBIE7PrE

You really wanna bring that this joke and trainwreck of a "human being" into this band?

Cherry Garcia, what is going on with you? First you bring up that Slash would set Guns N' Roses back. Now this???? Dude, just be happy that GNR is back!

I don't want Stevie involved in any capacity.  But it's ultimately the band's decision

I think that he should be there for one or two songs only. I would like to see Frank as the main drummer.

To be honest, I think he will fall in line if given the opportunity to play on the same stage as Axl, Slash and Duff again.

What he says on a radio show or some interview is one thing, but if he actually is given the chance to play big shows again I think he will shut up and take what's offered.

You're in the VAST minority. Would love to see Adler involved

I agree with this. I think he definitely will shut up and take whats offered.  Now, how long that lasts is another thing.  He should do himself a favor and have a "no media" policy, because I am 100% confident him doing any media is a bad idea.

    WOW!!!  seriously?  I'd say the biggest liability is Axl.  Riots,  storming off stage, throwing baby fits to own the name,  all the late starts,  throwing Slash fans out, and YES he did play with a bunch of mostly unheard of scabs.  while still calling it Guns.  And as far as the drinking, drugs and women.  That's what Appetite was all about.  The rock and roll lifestyle.  It was REAL.  What fucking planet are you guys from?  They were kids who grew up in excess, made an epic album about it, and lived the life we could only dream of.  This is THE WORLD'S MOST DANGEROUS BAND for a reason.  

  and bitching about his hair?  yeah Axl's cornrows, hockey jerseys, and molester moustache was SO much cooler.  Being stuck in the 90's?  Obviously a lot of us are.  They haven't been relevant to anyone but die-hards since.  

  Get off the guy.  I hope this isn't the support you would show for your mom, dad, brother, uncle, friend or whoever.  I'm happy that he is finally a recovering addict.  And he's the one that thinks they owe it all to the fans.  Most of them don't give two shits what we deserve or think of them.  To me he seems to be the most genuine one of the bunch.

What year are you from?  ::)

I honestly don't care if he's in or out.

   1978...lol.  I just don't get all the hate.  They were ALL a big part of my life.  Still are.  I've seen all incarnations of this band except the last one with DJ.  I don't post much but I've read every topic since 2001.  I know the story and all the shit that goes with it.  And I will be in Vegas opening night. :beer:

I think all the hate comes from the fear that Steven will be the cause of opening night also being closing night.  :-\

Have to disagree here Adler has always been about the music.
He's he only guy in the band who would do the reunion for free

   I do get that to a point.  I'm just hoping for the best.  I really do believe the guy is sober now though.  And I know first hand you can kick the shit for good.  I hope he has finally won the battle.  I lost my wife, kids, job, and my home when I was using.  And I've been clean for 14 years.  It's hard not giving up on yourself when everyone around you already has.  The most important thing a person needs is SUPPORT. : ok:

There it is.  : ok:

I don't think anyone here is questioning that.
The question is how he will react to a limited role if invited.


Congrats! That is awesome and I mean that sincerely.  :)

Who is this person you speak of? Interesting dude nonetheless.

That's also my point.

I don't judge "the person", but as a drummer... I don't see him as an important piece. He wrote nothing and, for me, GN'R is so much more than just AFD, which isn't even my favourite album. He makes no difference.

We have Slash the Cancer on stage with Axl...so what?

Again, the fear is this scenario:  Plan is show opens with the AFD5 playing WTTJ then Izzy & Steven exit the stage for GNR2016's rendition of CD.  Steven refuses to relinquish the stage to Frank.  Steven needs to be forcibly removed.

Care now?  Because we all fear this scenario is a very real possibility.

That's a little extreme...

Steve had no problem leaving the kit to Matt during the RRHOF performance.

Hmmm... nah. Don't see it happening.

Actually Matt Started and Steven finished, so while a technicality it is a totally different circumstance, I don't think Steven would have been willing to get up after SCOM and let Matt play Paradise City.

I agree. Plus he's probably so frazzled on drugs he can't play worth a crap anyway.

I actually would love to see Sarah Connor on drums.

I agree with this -

can you imagine what sort of legal stipulations his appearing would include and what sort of insurance-guarantee would be required for his appearance?

I'm really hesitant to believe he is sober, he has made that claim more than a few times before.

I wouldn't be upset at all if he were excluded, he has given people abundant reason not to include him IMO.

Yeah, I am certainly not campaigning against him, I am just indifferent to him being there.  I know I might rip on him on here from time to time, but I really have nothing against the guy.  I get more irritated at the idea that it is somehow not Guns N Roses if he is not involved.  One night I was randomly on the Sunset Strip when I was working out in LA for the week and his band was playing at the Whiskey.  I paid money and went inside and watched him play drums for 2 hours and I enjoyed it.

But something of this magnitude, I just have reservations about him being heavily involved.  If he comes out mid set and bangs out a couple tunes from "Appetite" am I going to be mad?  Of course not, I'll probably enjoy that. 

If they let him on stage for even a nanosecond he would be the straightest most sober person on planet earth.

It has meant so much to him for so long I don't think he could fuck it up regardless of addiction.

I think his smile would be incredible to see and dude could die happy, sad if he doesn't get a chance to bash out a few songs here and there.

I'd rather Frank over Sorum and can't even explain why. I think it is because Frank just shuts the fuck up and does his job and does it well and if this falls apart I don't want to hear anymore bullshit interviews with Matt. He is a great drummer but he was never integral to the band in my opinion. I'd probably hold him in higher regard if he had a higher appreciation of the time he was afforded with the band. I really like his work, just not so much his baggage.

Do you really have to post all your thoughts as a main thread?

Are you really that important

what's your biggest contribution to the world?

probably this post.
it says a lot.

Absolutely right, Mister!

Wow some harsh statements....Would like to see Steven for at least 1 or 2 songs...Always up there looking like he's having fun...Excellent and heartbreaking book he wrote a few years back...I definately have compassion for his struggles and wish him the best..

Some of you need to chill the fuck out seriously. He's not played a show with them in almost 26 years.

26 years is a long time and yeah he's said some stuff that he shouldn't of said but he doesn't really kiss anyone's ass. He had probably the least to do with the "making" of Appetite For Destruction as he didn't write any lyrics or didn't come up with and parts really. He did come up with the drums, and played drums great on that record. Which is a ALL-TIME album in any genre of music. Period.

While he had the least to do with the actual production of writing of the album, his "feel" to the record is probably the most noticeable. His loose swinging drum beats really push AFD. He's a large part of that album. I mean, he played the fucking backbone beat to the songs...

Steven Adler gets this perception that hes a bad to average drummer that is a junkie and can't hack it anymore. He can't play UYI songs... when he was involved in like 1/3 of them at somepoint. He's a idiot and a loudmouth... etc...

He's been clean for 2 years roughly as far as we know, and he's been doing much much better since 2007ish. He is right in his interview from this previous fall on Eddie Trunk. Guns N' Roses will always be those 5 dudes. It is pretty hard to argue this. The original 5 members had magic, made the best album they've done and did it with the right reasons and vibe. It is what made them what we all fell in love with unless you're like 15-20 and CD is what you grew up with somehow.

Would I love to see the AFD 5 go out there and tear it up... hell yes. Is that going to happen? Probably not... and here's why.

Steven Adler presents risk. Having him as the main drummer is just too risky. I would like this, but it isn't the best move. Frank is just as good or better than Adler and does his job and is low risk and probably low cost. Plus he's been drumming for 2006 for Gn'R. Matt has a history with Gn'R as his playing is really good but it is too tight for my liking personally. What will probably happen is Frank is the guy, and Steven and Matt take turns or do random encores in the tour. That makes the most sense and is the easiest thing to do. Or 1 drummer is mostly OUT of the deal all together. Who knows?

To leave Steven out of this completely is just bullshit. He's definitely said some stupid crap and probably hurt any longevity chance of playing with Guns for real, but that is kinda what I like about him. He says what he thinks, and most of the time it is about spot on. His comment about NU Gn'R being a bunch of hacks was inappropiate. What he probably meant is that it is pretty silly to have so many come in and go out under the Gn'R name. The players involved in Gn'R were great players, but the pedigree is something else entirely. They didn't come from where he did WITH the band. I understand his stronghold on his view.

Steven Adler will always be the "best" drummer FOR Gn'R.

Here is what they should do....

1. Offer him the full time position, the second he fucks up. He's out.
2. Offer him a spot to split shows with Frank or Matt. He fucks up. He's out.
3. (More realistic) Offer him the chance to play 1 full reunion show at some point, and close the shows for the encore of 2-3 songs)

He's wanted this more than anyone. Leaving him out is just really really harsh, but as others have said... with his silence so far, I'm sure he's doing it in some way and that is the right thing to do.

Easiest way to do it is have Frank drum, then have Matt/Steven do the encores whenever it fits them. Easy.

Do we really want Richard, Frank and Pitman onstage ?

Step 1: Fans on HTGTH argue intensely (again) about whether Steven deserves to be in the reunion band, whether he's a waste of space, and how personally they take his comments that aren't actually about them.

Step 2: GN'R decides who's onstage for the reunion without reading any of those comments.

Step 3: Steven keeps cashing Appetite residual checks either way.

 :beer:

Little more goes into it than that dude... and besides he was a large part of what was so great about AFD

I look at them as the cost of doing business, personally.  If that's what it takes to get Slash and Duff back, I make that trade in a heartbeat.

I think in large part they are there for optics anyway.  So it appears this is all one big collaborative effort from all eras of Guns N' Roses.

If Axl got back with all old guys and nothing but, its sends the message that he's bailing on a sinking ship and heading back to safer ground. 

He's not putting that thought out there, no way, no how.

Is that REALLY what you want ?  Do you REALLY care what kinda message Axl sends and how it's perceived by the outside world, and how that makes him feel ?

I honestly don't believe that.

The GNR legacy was built by the AFD/UYI guys.  Do you ANYONE who got into GNR because of Richard's, Frank's or, dare I say, Pitman's contribution ?

Now is the time to close the book on the whole debacle and get rid of those guys.

It's now or never...

Although I agree that the reunion should be the AFD line up. And a lot of people here are very unfair with the way the judge Adler. It is not up to us to decide who is in the band.

The only  thing we can?t do it is just not go to the shows. Nobody is forced to go. Am I going to Vegas, Coachella or Mexico? No!!! First I want to see what kind of show they do. If there is any chemistry, good vibe among them. If there are no riots and no mess up of the any kind.

And of course the line up. I won?t pay tons of cash to see Frank and Pitman. I couldn?t care less about them. If there is a U.S. Tour I?m going only to 1 or 2  shows. I won?t travell all over North America if all we have is Axl in bad shape, an hybrid reunion, average show and Izzy and Adler not being part of this at all.

What the fuck?

Again, if Izzy is not in there, I'm pretty sure it's his decision.
About Adler, you would never want to work with someone like him, so why ask them to do that? Those guys are not even real friends anymore. Everybody moves away from people they were once attached to in the past.

Its not our decision, of course they will do what works the best to them for now. As much as you guys want it to be all about legacy, it's also about moving foward - be it just in live gigs or (hopefully) new music. If Izzy doesn't want to be there and Adler is not really wanted (lets face it, for the band, not the fans, he's not needed), its time to get over it.

Hasn't who is in the band already been decided?  Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Chris, Richard, Frank.

These shows are being promoted as the rejoining of Axl and Slash on stage.
Even Duff is just a side piece because he and Axl have already done this.
It surprises me, even though it shouldn't, how many Slash fans aren't more vocal/excited about this.

I think we all agree that the extent of Izzy's participation is going to be totally up to Izzy because that's what we all have adjusted our realistic expectations of his situation to be.

Steven is the wildcard. As has been discussed to ad-nauseam, no one wants the first show to be the last show due to his issues.  Because of his silence, I think we are all expecting him to be involved in some way/shape/form.  

IMO, the inclusion of Steven is a legit discussion/concern to the fans who have tickets beyond the first show or who hope for shows near where they live.

There is no official statement about who is permanent member and who is a guest if any. Adler could be a guest for one show and one song. Izzy could be a guest on every show just play 14 Years and Dust N?Bones. We don?t have details.

It is legit to discuss Adler. Is it necessary to have a thread about him all the time? Maybe it is time to discuss how amazing Frank is. I mean for those who think Frank is the new John Bonham or something.

 ::)

All the time??  I don't see another thread discussing Steven?

Love Frank!!!  He is an amazing talent!!!  Here you go!!!!
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=66810.0

I agree with this. This is why I think this thread is useless. I wish that Cherry Garcia would knock this crap off. The threads the person  has made seem more like trolling and trying to stir up trouble than a discussion.  It's a great time to be a Guns N' Roses fan.  Let's enjoy it!! April 8th can't come soon enough!

I wasn't aware they left.

Do I care about the spin he's trying to put on all this?  No, I personally do not.

I think that's how he's looking at it though.

Also don't care about those other guys like Richard or Frank being part of this.  Never really bought into how Guns N' Roses is some religion that must remain pure.  It's a rock band who's songs I like, that's it.

Axl has put together the most compelling line-up in 2 decades to play those songs.  I'm onboard.
 

Even though this thread may not have started with the purist discussion intentions, I think it has brought up legit concerns worth discussing.  And just as GNR decides who will be onstage for these shows, it's the admin/mods here who decide what threads/posts cross the line of trolling.  IMO, they do a very good job of it for the most part.

And here's to hoping April 9th will be just as great a time to be a Guns N' Roses fan!!!  :hihi:
  :beer:

My concern is that the person is just causing trouble with this and the thread stating that Slash is holding GNR back. I never mentioned anything about the mods, which I think do a good job.  As far as April 9th, I agree!  ;D :beer: I just can't wait to hear the announcement of GNR performing at MetLife!

well, I also feel he shouldn't be involved, due to all the crap he talked during the past years. but on the other hand, at this point it doesn't really matter anyway, because the reunion will most probably be just a nostalgia act. so - so what, anyone can be there and it will work somehow. they might play AFD and some UYI songs from playback and the general public would still shit their pants ::)

If Steven is included as a guest and he totally blows it he hardly has the power to make the first show the last show.
Technically his performance would be fine. He just will give in to his constant need for attention and start blabbing to the media how he deserves to be the full time drummer. Just watching that dreadful BBC documentary showed how he totally lives in the past with his own reality of his "glory days". GNR and TB will make the best decision for GNR.
I am very excited for BOTH of those shows in Las Vegas.

   This

Unless the stories of bad blood between different AFD5 members has been a total ruse over the past 20+ years, the 'rejoining' has to be a fragile situation to say the least. 

I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine Steven being the catalyst to causing "a disturbance in the force"


Like many are saying, it would be fine if he did guest on some of the songs.
Just hoping he doesn't fuck up the rest of the show/tour.

I think people have grown and matured over the years. I understand the nostalgia of certain fans in wanting Stevie to be included. This reunion is going to kick ass. There may be some bumps in the road but it's hardly a fragile situation. We are talking about grown ass men who are some of the best in the biz. Stevie will be so thrilled to be included at first that things will go well. Even if he f***ks up, he is hardly a major player. The only real damage he could do is run his mouth to Trunk who is also starved for attention and information. But the rest of the band WILL RISE ABOVE IT!
What some people consider fragile, I consider exciting. What kind of magic is going to happen after all these years. :smoking: :beer:

Dont care either lol as long as  its  AXL ,SLASH, DUFF  and  maybe IZZY  its all good

Watching the BBC special I am convinced he isn't sober. I know he had a stroke related to drug use, but what is happening with his mouth when he talks in that special looks more like a phenomenon called 'coke jaw' where your jaw slides left to right like a swinging gate... I could be wrong, but I doubt it...

Shouldn't this thread be deleted - kind of disrespectful. I'm sure if this post was about Dizzy Reed  or Richard Fortus it would be deleted.

Sure, it can be viewed that way.
In my opinion though, it speaks more about the posters than this site.

We've seen how this alleged "happiest time ever!!!!", has turned into a whine fest for some. Some would rather focus on negativity. Even at this particular moment in time.... What does that say about them?



/jarmo

If Steven is happy to be a part of it and isn't resenting Axl, Slash and Duff for the windfall of money they're getting, it would probably go well.

Maybe Adler did the BBC interview before he went into rehab.

I am happy about it, if this is directed at me. I just don't want Steven Adler involved because I despise the guy as a human being, and I think he brings with him so much drama that it would represent a danger to GN'R. Even Axl said just a gig or two with Steven could result in years of court nonsense. I don't want that junkie ruining the band.

Stevie is annoying as hell but he does not have the power to ruin the band. He is not worth the drama but he would be an annoying irritant and not a force of destruction. Like it or not he is a part of the band's history. and he will never let anybody forget that. damned if you do and damned if you don't with a guy like that. Nothing will ever truly make him happy as he is always in search of the next high.

Unbelievable...Not only is this topic absolute drivel but it's disrespectful to a member of one of the greatest hard rock band line-ups of all time.  To say Adler is "too dangerous" for the so called "Most Dangerous Band in the World" is ridiculous.

All the drummers who've played in GNR are phenomenal, however a browse through GNR's back catalogue quickly reveals that the most memorable and inventive drum parts mostly lay on the first album and were WRITTEN by Adler.  You could literally pick out a standout drum part on each and every AFD song that is inventive, played with character and entirely for the song.

GNR without Adler is akin to ACDC without Rudd.  Both crazy bastards that come with their own issues but with these guys behind the kit it is a force of nature.

If he can knock out some decent drums then why not include him. To have all 5 play again would be awesome effort considering. It would be cruel to leave him out considering he has lived his life stuck in that moment...I mean releasing paintings with AFD titles is about as stuck in the past as you can get.

1. Slash "holding GNR back"??? That's idiotic.
2. I hope Stevie plays some part in the tour.

Man I can't wait for these shows.
 

Interesting comparison to Rudd, big difference is Rudd was able to keep it together enough to be in AC/DC for 30 years, Steven barely cracked 4.  But I agree with what you are saying for the most part.

As far as Steven's playing ability, that is subjective.  The opinions on his playing really are all over the spectrum in this thread.  I personally never cared for his playing especially when compared to other drummers that GNR have had over the years.  As far as the "classic" line up, I preferred Matt's playing of the "Appetite" songs live.   That's my opinion, doesn't make it fact.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the overall feeling towards Steven seems more of a concern for how he could negatively impact the band with his bullshit, not his chops on drums.  Looking at his track record, is it really that crazy that some fans have reservations about his involvement?

You can put me in the camp of thinking the band knows what they are doing better than we do.  If Steven is involved, they obviously have come to some resolution and they think he can pull it off.  They know better than us.  They actually know Steven the person, and they know his behavior better than any of us.  If they worked something out with Steven where they can play some songs together again, that is actually a wonderful thing, not a bad one.  I don't think many people will be upset if Steven comes back to play some songs and completely nails it.  That would be a weird way to look at it.

I  know some are worried he might do something drastic on stage to embarrass the band.  If he did that, which I really don't think he would, he would only embarrass himself and further cement the thinking that he is a royal fuck up. Guns will be 2 minutes into the next song with Frank on drums before security even got Steven out of the building.

could you just imagine the kayos that would ensue at the venue if that were to happen.  :nervous:

---

But Jarmo is right and now I'm done with being focused on the negative.

Okay Bodhi, you can put me in this camp too.  #theyknowbetterthanus #fingerscrossed  #thinkhappythoughts 

Ha! Yeah that's why I said it like that, because i think it is pretty much impossible for anything like that to happen.  :hihi:

If he gets the chance to play some songs, I'm sure he will do fine.

For those mentioning AC/DC's drummer, you're making me see this from a casual fans perspective.  I've seen AC/DC many times live, grew up learning guitar to Angus Young riffs, I wouldn't know their drummer in a million years and don't care about him (again, I'm a casual fan that likes some of their tunes)

Well, I do hope he's not involved permanently. Playing a song here or there occasionally would be nice, but I just don't think he'd manage a permanent spot. Too much of a risk there. Going with Frank, for example, seems like a smart way to go.

But I do agree that his drumming on AFD is amazing and unique.

but that was 30 years ago, before he fucked himself up.

Yep. That's my point.

And now someone will come up with a YouTube link to a recent Steven show...

It isn't about posting a link to one of his shows to prove anything man.

It is about the fact that he can still play. He's a good drummer. No one has ever said he's this all time great drummer or this amazing drummer etc..

For AFD he was perfect, and played the songs great and in my opinion made some of them what they are today still. He should be involved in some way. He isn't fucked up. He can play UYI stuff too. He can play anything.

Steven Adler like it or not was a big part of Gn'R. He will always remain in the legacy. Leaving him out would be totally fucked up. Who knows... he might actually be able to be the full time guy. I doubt this will happen, but I think he would keep his nose super clean if this was the case.

My comment wasn't aimed at those with actual concerns or those having a civil discussion. It was more about those who always find a way to put down any past or present band members for whatever reason. Especially at this moment in time.




/jarmo

Yeah its a hyped time. Everyone wants to chime in and review history and predict things. It's fun!

People are fairly negative though. I try to talk about things as I see it. As the way it actually is. Sometimes that is tough to do.

I just think people NOT wanting Steven involved in some way is cheating Guns N' Roses history and it is cheating Steven.

In a way, yes. In another way, no.
There has been zero promise from the band that the upcoming shows are indeed a reunion of one specific line up.

Imagine if Duff and Slash hadn't quit, but the band had replaced Matt and Gilby...




/jarmo

Yeah true.

I'm totally happy with the probably and great lineup of

Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard, Frank, Dizzy, Chris.

That would be great. Just sprinkle in the other guys as it works out. They do at some point gotta have the AFD 5 up there just for 1 song at least right? Or one full show? That would be awesome.

It?s good to see Adler has at least some support.

I know the internet is a very strange place, but even with that in mind, I found it bizarre that the majority of GN?R fans on a GN?R fan site didn?t want the most important drummer in GN?R?s history to have any role in a GN?R reunion.

Not only should he not be involved, but let?s minimize his importance in the first place while we are at it, and pretend we know him personally, and decide he is a truly despicable person, who would only seek to sabotage the tour if given the chance. He was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time, anyway.
Even though that theory has been debunked many times over by Slash, Izzy and Duff, I?ll choose to believe my fellow anonymous people of the internet.

Granted there are some valid, rational concerns lumped in, but found the overall tone surprising.

These guys all made some very poor choices at one point in their lives, like most people do.
They all had their issues with drugs and alcohol.
Some were able to kick it earlier than others, but that doesn?t make them a better or worse person, and it?s each own?s personal business/battle.

Whether Adler is clean or not isn?t any of my business or concern.
If the others deem him fit to play, and they all want to get back on stage together after all these years, I think it would be amazing to see.
I don?t understand the mentality of rooting for others to fail. Especially a person who was instrumental in helping create the music in a band you?re a fan of.

Seeing the shit eating grin he would surely be wearing would just be another highlight in what could, should be a very exciting time to be a GN?R fan.

And I think the feelings on the matter come down to that very thing.

I look at this as sentimentality versus business.  The people that want Steven seem to put more stock in it being "the right thing to do".

The people against, seem to be putting more stock in wanting this to be as successful as it can be, and not looking to add any variable that might impede that.

And if that means "not being fair to Steven", well...too bad.  The tour's success is first and foremost here.

True.

But, be a bit remiss to omit that you are talking to the same fanbase that had a pretty sizable segment that had next to no compunction about shitting all over the lead guitarist that created the music they became fans of.  All out of some misguided attempt at "supporting Axl" and making his enemies and causes their enemies and causes.

As someone who was around when Adler was kicked out of the band, no one at the time gave two shits about it when MTV broke the news. Seriously, he was a laughing stock. The man who got kicked out of GNR because of a drug probably.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be involved in any shows, but people here are seriously overstating his importance to the fan base.

To include him in the discussions now is to say that this is a true reunion and it's not. It's a reunion of the original core. That put out AFD and the Illusions.

I'll second that.

The memory cheats, folks.  Always.

Steven was fucked a few different times.

He couldn't use the band name Road Crew after he was kicked out for being on drugs too much. The others were simply able to do drugs and play. he couldn't or he obviously was doing way way way too much which might be the case. Probably was.

Axl made a big deal over publishing rights. They were a team, so the songs were together right? 20% down the middle. Nope. Steven gave 5% to Axl.

He later gets this taken from him in some sleezy ass lawyer deal, and sues. He used to be a huge fuck up.

In the past 2-4 years or so, he's been pretty good about staying clean it seems. It seems. People are like yeah... he played drums... and he fucked it up with Gn'R. If he joins this reunion he'll fuck it up too.

Maybe not. He wants this more than anyone. He is clearly the black sheep of the Gn'R legacy. Matt Sorum drumming on AFD? Kill me.

No disrespect intended to you, but again, if I?m deferring to anyone?s memory, it?ll probably be to the people that truly were there, like Slash, Duff and Izzy.
Especially with the benefit of hindsight, it?s not terribly difficult to trace back to when GN?R began to decay.

Where you, I or anyone else ranks Steven?s importance to the band is irrelevant.
It could have been anyone, but it was Steven who left first.
He had a hand in GN?R?s most successful albums. Was his dismissal the sole reason the band couldn?t function on a creative level anymore?
Obviously not. Was his absence a factor? If we are to believe the words of his colleagues, then yes, it certainly was.

Did it stop people from going to see them live? No, why would it? No one is saying it was reason to protest, but it was absolutely a significant blow to the band, whether fans realized it at the time(or today) or not.

Civil War is my favorite Gn'R track. His drumming is great on that. No matter how many splices it took.

The Farm Aid thing was lame. That's on the band for that. He played great there I think too.

His dismissal was more over fucking in the studio over and over again, right?  Not the Farm Aid thing.

Farm Aid supposedly was the final straw thing. As he was out a few weeks later.

Him tripping on the drum riser was probably just a badly timed accident. He barely knew Civil War and didn't know Down on the Farm at all.

He played pretty fucking good if you ask me. If you ask anyone actually lol.

He was clearly super fucked up for the UYI early sessions. That is on him. He probably was way way over the line fucked up. Kicking him out I'm fine with he probably was stalling them, and people got tired of it.

He did bring the least to the band from a songwriting perspective, but his drumming style is the big thing. Listen to Civil War, then listen to that same song by Matt live. I can hear a difference in style and quality. Matt is a fucking awesome drummer but Steven's free based loose swing style fits Gn'R more.

It's whatever though at this point. He's not played with the band the longest of all of them. He has played a couple shows with Duff and a couple with Slash I think. Did the HoF show... and maybe Izzy? I don't remember.

he wants this more than any of them man. Not including him would be harsh and super fucked up.

I'm talking about NOT letting him perform 1 full show and/or letting him encore a few. Or just let him do encores for them all.

Do "Nightrain", Civil War and then do "Paradise". Or you could do any song, as he could play any  of them.

I agree with this 100%

It makes no business sense whatsoever, at any level to include Adler simply based on his track record and interview history.

If he is somehow given a special guest spot, this would be benevolent of the band- but I think it will come back to bite them in some way.

I didn't honestly care when I heard on MTV he was fired, and I don't entertain any silly sentimentality that overshadows logical thinking , so I honestly don't care one way or the other whether he appears with GNRs-

He was great at Farm Aid and the little tumble he took is legendary...Keith Moon-esque....he played great that night. My favorite Gnr moment ever. : ok:

I love watching Steven play with the old line up in their prime.  There was a sense of danger, and also fun. 

Would be great to see him involved in some way.  I find it very hard not to root for him. 

It actually makes a LOT of business sense to include Steven. You are underestimating the number of fans out there who say "if it's not the AFD 5 then it's still not Guns n Roses", like it or not that's a very strong opinion of fans who aren't just casuals.

I don't particularly agree with that notion but I understand the feelings of those who say it, and would stay away unless it's those 5 guys.

Me personally? If we get the three confirmed plus izzy at some stage then that's a huge bonus. I'd prefer Sorum to frank but frank seems like a loyal dude so I'm not going to put shut on him even though I don't care for him, but business sense if the AFD 5 got up there and we're successful then commercially it outstrips any other option, surely these days with contracts and clauses they could get something water tight but then again they are selling out shows anyway so as you say they might not take the risk!
My gut says he will be involved for about 10% of the tour! Maybe doing the opening half a dozen songs then letting frank take over.
That's just a guess though

I partially agree with this, I think most people and promoters mostly care about Axl and Slash - to a lesser degree Duff.

It makes zero business sense if you weigh the risk against the benefits of having Adler perform IMO.

I'm not really opposed to him playing some guest spots though, his presence or absence won't be a factor for me at all.

I completely get what you're saying. That's why my focus was more on the fan base relevance rather than that of the band's relevance. Absolutely, the only people who know what happened were the band - and time has probably messed up their memories as well. My comments were immediate reaction when news broke and then the subsequent fallout or whatever.

When MTV broke the news, people I knew (and I knew a lot of folks who were musicians) were like: Steve who? or Damn, that's some sorry shit that dude got thrown out of the band.

The comments weren't: Damn, what are they going to do now?

I won't take away his contributions (or lack thereof) to AFD because whether he deserves any credit or not it's certainly one of the greatest rock albums ever made and - you are correct - he was the drummer.

I just don't think he'll be missed (by a majority) if he's not on the tour. That's all.

And I surely don't believe that there is a strong core that believes if it's not the original five then it's not GNR. This is Steve Adler - Not John Bonham (And with a twist of irony, I don't here too many people saying that wasn't a Led Zeppelin reunion when Bonham didn't rise from the dead to play in 2007, but I seriously digress.)

Hell, no one missed him when Matt took over. In fact, I think Izzy was somewhat in a similar situation but that's a can of worms I'm not going to open.

I am, however, of the club that believes - and because I've known a lot of addicts and alcoholics (some successful, some not) - that he would eventually fuck up if given the full time gig. I really do believe that. Personally, I hope he doesn't.

I don't actively hope Steven is or isn't involved. Been a fan since '88- and Steven hasn't been a day-to-day part of that fandom since 1990. Like many- if not all- of the ex-Members- I continue to enjoy Steven's recorded performances- but have never once left a GNR show feeling letdown by the live performances of Sorum, Brain or Ferrer either. If Steven can be there- and the rest of the guys are into it and feel good about it- cool deal. If not- the GNR "machine" (all the more so now with Slash and Duff back on board)- will keep on rolling in impressive fashion IMHO...

Meanwhile- yes- some will vocally complain about the "AFD 5". I just happen to think most of them will still buy their tickets though- and at some level enjoy the spectacle of the seeing the regrouped Iconic Lineup. : ok:

I see what you are saying, and I also have seen that comment floating around online about its "not a real reunion without the original 5" thing.

Here's the thing though, people who say that either had no intention of going to the shows anyway or will most likely go to the show even though they say they aren't.  GNR have had instant sell outs for every show announced with pretty high ticket prices, so from the business side it appears to make no difference.

I'll be glad if this is not a reunion at all, but just a new line-up, even with some guests here and there. There'd be much more meaningful.

Yeah. The: "it's not the Appetite 5!" line of attack was even around on the UYI Tour (w/Matt n' Gilby). That didn't stop the UYI Tour from being a massively successful, legendary tour though. Obviously lots of things have changed in the industry since 1992-93- but I still think there are a TON of folks now in their mid/late 30's through late 40's with disposable income who will definitely line-up to see Axl and Slash (and Duff to a lesser extent) perform together- whether it be for: (a) nostalgic reasons; (b) a chance to see something they never thought they'd see again (or ever see for the younger set); (c) just being part of a pop cultural "event"; or (d) any other miscellaneous reasons (e.g. "Hey- let's knock a few back Saturday night and see GNR!"). Just don't see how Steven Adler (or Izzy for that matter) makes or breaks that in any meaningful way. That said- their occasional involvement (if practicable) could enhance things further here or there I am sure...

just watch ritz 88 rocket queen, now this was a band

edit:  :peace:

edit2: you know you r right

edit3: y i am doing this?

edit4:pope

offtopic: st. vincent

Yep, at least it'd seem like a more meaningful thing. A full reunion would be a little.. reunion-ish. And that's rarely a good thing.

I've stayed out of this thread...because we've had the exact same conversation more than a few times this year alone. The drummer seat... there are several different ways to go.. and i'm not really dead set against any of them, even If I have a small preference.

However .. you articulated it perfectly.

Yea, I totally agree that Steven?s inclusion, or exclusion isn?t going to drastically effect ticket sales one way or the other.
Like you said, they did just fine on the Illusion tour without him, and Izzy.

Granted back when Adler was sacked, and Izzy walked away, we didn?t know to what extent it would effect the band.
I think a lot of people wanted to believe, myself included that someone like Axl, or Slash or whomever, was the brainchild of the operation, and bit players could be added as needed and they wouldn?t skip a beat. That of course has been proven not to be the case.

GN?R?s lineup at it?s creative peak was clearly Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven.
Matt and Dizzy could also fall into this group due their involvement later on during the Illusion sessions.
It was a band effort. We know that for certain now.

I?m not the least bit surprised that the casual fan isn?t more interested in Steven, or Izzy?s participation. Axl & Slash alone is enough for most.
I?m just surprised at the lack of interest from us, more informed lunatics posting on a GN?R message board.

We're here discussing and feeling sorry (some of us) for Steven and Izzy's likely absense in the full tour, but for the majority of the public, it won't make any difference. Axl was doing his thing with his new band and the shows were selling as far as I know, people wanted to see GNR even if it was only him.
Now it's all about Axl and Slash together again. That's what's gonna sell this tour.

I would love to see Steven because I'm sure his fun personality and his constant smile and happiness would bring a great feel to the shows. But being really honest, I would still be happy with Matt, I think he's a big part of the band too and makes even more sense than Steven, since he's played all the band's material.

If I had any say I would delete all the new GNR guys, anything as far from that as possible, but I know it's not realistic. Izzy would definitely be an important component to the band's chemistry on stage, since he brings that unity feel, his presence is more important to me than Steven's.

But I'm still going either way. They are throwing me a bone. I'm happy to have it.

This is essentially my take as well.
At the very least, I?ll be in Vegas and I?m sure it?ll be a fucking blast.
Could not possibly care less about any of the post Illusions members, and probably won?t pay a premium to see them in massive Gillete stadium, if that?s where they play, but would be there in a heartbeat as well if Izzy, Steven and/or Matt are involved.

Perfectly stated.

The way I see it, the line-up I (hopefully) will be able to see this summer is the best line-up in 2 decades.  It's an improvement over the most recent 3 incarnations, in my opinion.

Is it perfect?  No.  But you can't let perfect be the enemy of good.  Enjoy this fantastic turn of events and enjoy it however long it lasts.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-roses-steven-adler-slash-and-duff-mckagan-dont-believe-i-am-21-months-sober/

He went on to say: "They don't think I'm cool and they don't think I can play drums that great and they don't think I'm sober. Duff, he has a right, in a way, but, like I said, he forgets where he came from too. But we did do some shows [together] in Japan [in 2013], and Duff invited [Steven's current band] ADLER to come down, and I was still drinking then. And the second I got to the airport, I made a beeline for the bar, and I just started doing shots of J?ger. And the whole trip I was sick and I was just a mess. And, you know, Duff's sober and he's very judgmental and forgetful of where he came from. And he was just so bummed and pissed at me. I mean, the playing part, the shows when we actually were performing, that went all right, but everything else? So I kind of ruined it and gave him the excuse to be able to say, 'Well, he's not cool and he's not that good.' But I stopped doing that. They stopped doing that. Just because they stopped doing it before I did doesn't make them any better. We're all people who have addiction problems. I was just able to get a grip on it later on in life than they did."
Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-roses-steven-adler-slash-and-duff-mckagan-dont-believe-i-am-21-months-sober/#W721slpdq9qrW4Bg.99

If Steven doesn't end up being involved, he pretty much said why a few months ago. Duff let him play some shows with his cheese dick Adler band and he couldn't get out of the airport without getting sloshed. He's completely dysfunctional and his excuses get old, especially coming from a guy who is in his 50's now.

Exactly right.

And I think stories like that doom his chances more than some beef Axl might have.  I could almost see Axl relenting...IF, the others vouched for him.

But if even they have misgivings, I hardly expect Axl to then become his champion and try and convince them its a great idea.

Thanks JAEBALL much appreciated. Yeah- I can see how certain drummers might further enhance the experience for certain paying customers- but I don't see the drummer slot making or breaking this in any meaningful way. All things being equal- I think they're playing it damn smart (at least as far as I understand it) by leaving the gig in Frank's very capable (IMHO) hands and possibly holding the door slightly ajar for an Adler sighting or two...

I think the people who are demanding that Steven be involved are just expecting the band to go out and sound exactly like they did on AFD. Pure nostalgia only. Personally, I will be at the show on the 8th, and I want it to be the best concert possible MUSICALLY. As much as I love the AFD lineup, I think the current lineup, with Frank and Richard (and Dizzy and, yes, even Pittman--Axl has him still involved for a reason) can provide the best concert possible (of course I would love to see Izzy play a few songs). It would be cool for Steven if they let him play, but really, it would purely be a nostalgia move (and would keep him from sinking into a certain depression). But as far as musically, I wouldn't miss him out there. Sorry Steven

Yeah, Duff talks about this in his book, How To Be a Man. I had completely forgotten.
Actually it's a pretty interesting reading for those who want to try to understand how this reunion suddenly started to happen. I know I'm looking for clues.
In his latest podcast Eddie Trunk says he talked to Slash's management and they won't be doing any press at all.

Exactly.  For some they are looking at this as a reunion where the band should just scrap everything and go back to 1990.  For me personally I see this as Slash and Duff rejoining the current band that exists in 2016.  That is much more exciting to me.  The 90's were great, its why I became a fan.  But, I am excited to see what this band is going to do in 2016.  If other players from the classic era play with the band that would be cool. My excitement about the band does not hinge on whether or not that happens though.  I first discovered GNR right after Izzy quit, so Axl, Slash and Duff were the only members of the classic line up I ever knew when I was a fan.  I am sure if I discovered the band a few years earlier I would have stronger feelings about whether or not Steven was involved. 

You look at it like they are joining the current lineup?

There is no "current lineup"

the replacements of the replacements are gone...

the old guys are back

This is the core of what was... most of it. I look at it like Axl, Slash and Duff are together and they've added a couple guys. It doesn't matter I guess... but Axl Slash and Duff are what anyone knows when it comes to big time GnR

Well, there is.

Bumble, DJ and Tommy left.

Axl, Richard, Chris, Frank and Dizzy was the new basis. Duff and Slash filled out that line-up.

Do you think Richard, Chris, Frank and Dizzy will be part of the new line-up just by chance? No, they're there because they didn't leave.

this. + add his constant blabbering about how he deserves to be GNR's drummer. this gets annoying after 25 years. Frank is the right man.

Why is Frank the right guy tho? Because he's the best drummer of the bunch? Because Axl likes him? Because he will always keep to the company line?

I have nothing against the guy... but ..


#TeamSorum

because 1) his drumming is excellent, 2) he's a cool guy (unlike Sorum), and 3) he's not a wasted idiot who would fuck it up (unlike Adler)

I never met Matt.. I don't really know if he's cool or not. I just know he was a big part of the golden era and can play with Slash and Duff with his eyes closed.

Other than Frank's contribution to the handful of CD songs... his added on parts... he just hasn't given much to the GNR discography... thus... he'd be far behind some others in the race for the seat... if we were judging based on merit.

I very much realize Matt was never really a consideration.

I think that he should be involved for at least a few songs. Frank should play the bulk of the setlist.

I think there is a thing with Axl/Sorum. Idk what it is.... but Sorum is great for GNR.

And... why Frank/Fortus... etc didnt leave GnR??? If they know the same info that DJ/Ron..... Stinson knews?. Because is a good job to let it go?.... or are just waiting and colaborating with the process until gets the fired?

Idk what to think. But i really wants Sorum, to get that powerfull sound back.

Nostalgia is certainly the driving force behind the renewed interest in Guns N? Roses.

Some here may be intrigued by what Slash and Frank could potentially come up with in the studio together, but most people couldn?t care less because they don?t know, or care who Frank is.

At one point, we know for a fact that Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven had great chemistry.
Do they still have it? Who knows, but there is certainly no evidence to suggest there would be anything between Slash and Fortus for instance.

There is a reason Fortus, Frank and Pitman aren?t featured in the ads promoting the upcoming gigs.
If Adler and Izzy were reliable, and they all wanted to do this thing together, promoters would love to be plastering images of the fully reunited lineup everywhere they could(some are anyway). Promoting Fortus, Frank and Pitman does nothing to bolster fan interest. Really, the only thing it probably could do is hurt.

Can Frank play Adler?s parts admirably? Sure. So can any professional drummer in the business.
So can my next door neighbor. And my cousin. And probably your cousin.
That?s hardly the point.

People aren?t paying top dollar to see who can perform Guns N? Roses songs really well.
Skilled musicians are a dime a dozen.
I think it?s safe to say that given the option, most would just prefer to see the Guns N? Roses they became fans of in the first place, perform, and hopefully really well.

I re-watched the Hall of Fame set and Steven is great on Paradise City but really blows it on SCOM.
On SCOM he falls behind, tempo is all over the place and you even see Duff go over to the kit and try to guide him back in.


Outside of guesting on a few songs I don't think Steven is consistent enough to play in GNR.

I don't think so either, and as I've said- it would be very gracious of GNR to allow him to be a special guest on a few songs, all things considered.

The fanboy brigade of sentimental Adler supporters who are blowing his horn nonstop these days while ignoring his history of relapsing, running his mouth and being a walking liability in every sense of the word  are really annoying lately.

I totally agree.

Sometimes its more about feel and vibe then perfect timing. 

Personally, I don't care that much about who's in the drummer's seat other than it should be someone who's in or has been in the band.

About Steven in 2012, he was still in his 3 month on/off drug habit then.

This time around, hopefully he stays clean. By the things I've seen, I think he's more consistent now.

Coming back in GN'R full-time? I don't think that will happen though.

You guys do realize that Steven is actually seriously working on his sobriety finally right? These comments from Steven are old. He is not the same guy he was 2yrs ago.

He will be involved in some capacity. Whether it a similar role to Izzy in that he shows up for select dates gets onstage for 2-3 songs or if he is part of the tour and plays all the appetite stuff. I don't think he latter will happen though.

Just be happy this is happening and stop complaining when we have no idea yet how it will go down.

My guess if you will see select appereances by:
Izzy
Steven
Matt
Gilby
Tommy when he's in town
Maybe even Robin

Be happy!
Now if only we could get an appearance from Buckethead! : ok:

Exactly! The things his character is being assassinated for are 2-3yrs old. He does seem to be a lot more consistent with his sobriety now. Even if it only has been a little over a year. That's dog years for an addict and a huge step in the right direction. Him reconciling with Slash and the rest of them and accepting blame for his own actions has been a major positive influence on his sobriety. He no longer carries the weight and burden that always led to his depression and addiction. He will be involved in some way or another. The most important thing is that he is alive and sober

No man.

The lineage was broken up too many times. Bumble was part of a added 2nd guitarist that replaced buckethead, DJ replaced finck, who replaced slash lol

When the replacements of the replacements leave... I don't consider that "a band" just hired guys.

Don't automatically assume Sorum's beef is with Axl. Could very well be with Slash from how VR ended and their disagreements on who would replace Scott. Sorum & duff were were ready to hire Corey Taylor which would've bombed but Slash fortunately squashed it and move on to better things as a solo artist.

Maybe the guys don't want Sorum involved full time because he would be an extra expense and not worth it. He's not an original member. It's not like people will lose interest because he is not involved. Frank being there allows them to mix in some CD songs and Frank is not going to demand a ransom.

The only time Sorum will be missed is when they play YCBM. Have yet to heard a drummer play it correctly. So I hope if Matt makes an appereance he will definitely sit in on YCBM

The only people that should be involved with Appearances is...

Gilby, Matt, Steven and Izzy and myabe TOmmy since he didn't leave and rejoin like 8 times

Robin, Buckethead???? Seriously? Gtfo

Well, guess what... doesn't matter what you consider. The band has a new line-up and that's how it's working now.

Are you saying that you think WTTJ will NOT be the opening song?  It's hard for me to believe that it won't be. And if it is and Steven & Izzy are there, why wouldn't they bring out ONLY the AFD5 onstage to open the show with it?

I seriously doubt any fans will leave early under any circumstances ..... unless they're forced out by the riot police, of course.

 

I wonder about the opening song... only reason being that it was almost never the opener during the AFD and/or UYI era's... it only became a regular opener from 2002-2007. Slash preferred opening with songs like Nightrain, Brownstone, and It's so Easy... so depending on how much of a 'Democracy' this is I would say you could see another song open shows.

If Duff and Izzy have both been able to come out and do a couple of songs why can't Steven do the same. Honestly i don't care if he does or doesn't but i don't think it will be a situation where he plays a song and then you have to drag him off kicking and screaming just to be back on a stage in front of 20000 people would probably be enough for him to keep on the straight n narrow.

That will make him happy for a moment, but he will want more. I am sure that whatever happens he will be the only one willing to talk to Trunk. More so if he feels cheated or doesn't get his way. #notanadlerfan.

I am not a big adler fan either to be honest this is not an AFD tour this guy has not played anything from chi dem and who knows what he could play on UYI i think thats more the reason he is not in full time because im sure axl wants to play more then what steven played on.

Yes I am aware.  If you read what I wrote you will see I said he kept it together enough to be in AC/DC for 30 years.  I never said they were consecutive years, or that he wasn't fired several times.   The point was he was AC/DC's drummer for over 30 years.  At least that's what Wikipedia told me, as I have never heard of Phil Rudd until his most recent arrest was posted on blabbermouth a while back.  I also didn't know there were 2 Young's in the band until last year.  I'm not an AC/DC person.

Consecutive years or not, 30 beats 5 every time.

Nightrain, Mr. Brownstone and It's So Easy are all AFD songs.  If you, like I, believe that they are going to open the show with an AFD song and if the AFD5 are there, why wouldn't you bring them out to open the show?  Why would they hold off Steven and Izzy until the end? 

I'm also guessing a (probably the) CD song will be early in the set.  It's 2016.  We're all about inclusion.  Like it says in that commercial... be together but not the same.

We all watched how beautifully Richard and Izzy could co-exist in a GNR show without any integrity being denied either one's presence.  If everyone's focus on that stage is to make it work, then it definitely can.

As I posted in another thread, I don't believe Axl has Dizzy, Chris, Richard and Frank there only to fuck them over for the AFD5. 
   

Literally, not one single fan will do this.

I'm just saying I can see them opening with a song other than Jungle... But I'm not holding my breath for an AFD5 lineup...

I was referring more to you saying that if Steven were there that they would hold him off for later in the show.

I didn't say that...?

My apologies.  Someone else said it.

No worries, it's easy to get lost in these threads.

As far as Steven goes... if he's there, great... if he's not, great. I'll be happy with a drum machine backing Axl and Slash, I'll take it all in baby steps.

Izzy's non-involvement hurts the rationale for Steven, I think.

I was with the people saying they could not bring out Izzy and dick Steven over.  That made sense to me.

But to me, this was a package deal.  If you are not even going through the motions of this being some sort of reunion, Steven is not needed. 

I'm not sure what dragging him out to play 'Rocket Queen' is really going to accomplish anyway.  To say you did it?  When has Axl ever given a shit about appearances or "doing the right thing"?

I didn't say one way or another what the opening song would be, because it doesn't matter.  If "Welcome to the Jungle" is the opening song, Frank could play it as he has been for 10 years.  It isn't about the setlist, it's about the flow and emotion of the show.

Anybody who thinks the original lineup isn't the biggest draw of these shows is kidding themselves.  Whether any of the anti-Steven types on this site want to admit it, Steven will indeed get a huge response from all the Guns N Roses fans who don't give a shit about internet drama like this.  So why on earth would they bring Steven out at the beginning and then send him on his way?  And why -- as you suggested before -- would they play Appetite songs first and then go into Chinese Democracy songs with Slash and Duff there?  I'd be surprised if there is even one CD song in the set, and if there is, I bet they will be played sparingly, and I double bet that the setlist will heavily favor old material throughout.

On that basis, it wouldn't matter where old songs were played in the setlist.  If "Welcome to the Jungle" were played first, Frank could play it.  That leaves plenty of old songs that Steven could finish the night with.



Indeed.  Izzy and Duff both played a select few GNR songs (and they weren't necessarily the hits) when they briefly joined GNR (before the whole tour Duff did).  Whether Steven comes out at the beginning, middle, or end, it is highly unlikely he will throw a tantrum about it since he knows that it's a huge opportunity just to be back onstage under the Guns N Roses banner.  Not to mention the fact that Steven would know that if he behaved himself, he would likely be given future opportunities to perhaps do even more.  He would know that he'd be blowing it forever if he misbehaved in any way.

Someone else pointed out a few pages back that Steven shared the spotlight with Matt Sorum at the Hall of Fame.  At the time, Sorum admitted that he stepped back and told Slash and Duff to let Steven play, and then it was Steven who said, "no, go ahead and play "Brownstone".

Saying that he'll refuse to leave the stage is an irrational fear that is more an anti-Steven mentality than reality -- like most of the Steven hatred around here is.

I don't mind one way or the other who is banging the pots n' pans at the back of the stage - "it's neither eechie nor ochie tae me", as my father would say.  If he made some appearances, and it all went well that'd be nicely satisfying for the nostalgia, but nobody apart from him has spent the last however many years hoping and wishing that Axl would kiss and make up with Steven Adler first and foremost. 

That said, I think the ill-will shown towards him here is over the top.

I agree, what a silly comment to make  : ok:

I don't see any irrational Adler-hate- what I see is people realistically evaluating his contributions, his liabilities, his track record and his capabilities.

If you told me 5 years ago that there would be a Axl-Slash-Duff reunion and that some people obviously blinded to reality by sentimental nostalgia were whining about Adler being involved, I wouldn't believe it!  :hihi:

I have to agree.  I'm astounded by this.

I knew Steven had his fanboys, but he's gotta be thrilled with the doggedness of his defenders here.  Stronger than I could have ever imagined.

The dorks are greedy. 

We have axl slash and duff.   I would of been happy happy with just axl playing big shows again. Let alone with two all time greats. 

Some people always just want more.   We're is Steven.   Where is Izzy!    Well I am sure they will all be involved when there names are needed to sell more tickets

Pretty much.

This is an incredible turn of events.  One I have trouble feeling is incomplete or deficient in some way.

This is excellent.

Digged up some Axl quotes from an interview with the LA Times in 2012. Maybe this is what applies with the "regrouping"?


The quotes:

"Really, you can get guys from the 'Illusion' thing, but the only thing that would make it would be Duff and Slash, really," Axl said. "It's nothing against Izzy and it's nothing against Steven, or anything like that. Steven may want it, but these guys I'm working with right now, they work really hard and it's hard work. I've toured with the other guys and I've also seen what they've done since, and I just know the difficulties."

"I don't have an excitement to work with people that joined in the 'Illusion' time," he said. "There's behind the scenes that was really, really difficult there with different ones. So it's not really even a full reunion."

Good Remember... I Believe Steven Some Songs

If you think that you are realistically evaluating Steven?s contributions and capabilities, I?d offer that you may be doing it wrong.
We weren?t in the room when the classic lineup essentially crafted AFD-UYI.
So we really only have the music, and the words of the people in that room to go on.

I don?t feel like digging them all up, but there is plenty out there like the following:

"His sense of swing was the push and pull that give the songs their feel. When that was gone, it was just... unbelievable, weird. Nothing worked. I would have preferred to continue with Steve, but we'd had two years off and we couldn't wait any longer.?

I?m sure everyone has read them before anyway, and has either forgotten, or chosen to ignore them for whatever reason.

There is plenty of evidence suggesting that Steven is more than capable of performing at a high level.
Are there also videos of off nights? I?m sure there are. Just as there are plenty of Axl, Slash, Duff.

It has nothing to do with being a ?fanboy? of Steven, or a ?fanboy? of Izzy or any individual.
It?s understanding that Guns N? Roses, at it?s creative peak consisted of those 5 guys at it?s core, and later saw contributions from Matt and Dizzy.

Will it be great to see Axl, Slash and Duff up on stage again?
Of course. I bought my tickets with only those three confirmed.

Could it be even better, by including Izzy, Steven, Matt? Fuck yes it could.
And if they aren?t involved, it would be interesting to know why.

Well that is just the thing isn't it? He couldn't play big shows in the USA with just his group of hired muscians that changes every 3-5 years. lol

Now he can, because like it or not Slash and Duff are Guns N' Roses too. Always will be.

No argument here.

Steven is playing with Slash this week at a small benefit/ fundraiser.

For his sake... he better not slip up with comments about GNR.

Perhaps this is the last test.

Publicly you mean?


It's an interesting situation. Would Slash bring himself to play together with Steven now, if he was blocked from performing with GN'R?

I think if this is something that Slash had previously committed to doing that he wouldn't back out just because Steven will be there too.

Steven was added more recently.

A previous poster didn't have Steven's name on it. If Slash had felt uncomfortable, he could have objected to it I think.

It's a benefit though, so he might have thought it would be inappropriate to create any fuzz.

Maybe Steven is stalking Slash.  :-X

What/who is the benefit show for?

(http://www.rockforrecovery.com/RFRimage.png)

Wow.  Thanks.

Sounds like a very worthy cause for anyone to participate in.

Kudos to all involved.  : ok:

For every positive pro-Adler  reason and quote you can come up with there are equally an abundance of relevant negatives-  such as:

As I feared, [Steven] had become the odd man out. At rehearsals, Duff and I had the tedious job of dealing with him. While Axl was aware of the situation, he wasn't obligated to watch over Steven 24/7 like we were. (...) Steven was becoming a heavier burden every day [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York. p. 300]

Steven was fully strung out and babbling incoherently much of the time [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 151]

When we started rehearsing the material [for Use Your Illusion] that's when Steven's house of cards came crashing down. He was utterly useless when put to the test: most of the time he'd fade away from the proper time signature somewhere in the middle of the song or just forget where he was altogether. He was just incapable of locking in with Duff or me like he used to do. It was pretty dire; something had to be done (...). That's not to say we weren't really patient with Steven. We tried everything we could think of, though we probably should've taken further action...though I'm not sure what that could have been. We'd gone so far as to bring in people like Bob Timmons, the rehab specialist who had helped clean up M?tley Crue, and others who were experienced in dealing with extreme cases. Their efforts were futile [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York. p. 301]

We were saying to him, 'Steven, you're fucked up.' We said: 'Me and Slash, we're fucked up, but you're really fucked up'. I remember saying to him: 'If me and Slash think you're fucked up, think about who's saying that...[Classic Rock Duff McKagan Interview, Classic Rock October 2002]

Steven didn't leave. Steven was fired. We gave him every ultimatum, we tried working with other drummers, we had Steven sign a contract saying that if he went back to drugs he was out. He couldn't leave his drugs...and other things had happened involved with Steven that Steven is basically someone I used to know. It makes me feel bad, but there's other things beside the band that he was involved in with his drugs that's been very dangerous and scary and I want nothing to do with him- Axl  [Famous Last Words, MTV, 1990]


Steven just kept on lying. He kept saying he'd given up. I'd already been around to his dealer's house and threatened to kill him if he sold Steven any more drugs. And one night I went round to Steven's house and pressed the redial button on his phone. And guess where it went? And that was that- Duff [Classic Rock, May 2006]


Izzy-
I even had lunch with Steven last week. He is clean, today, but he is affected physically and mentally[Hard Rock Interview, June 2001]

Dizzy-
Paraphrased: Wow... what to say about this guy... I just recently played with Steven with the Starfuckers... actually it was both him and C.C. Deville of Poison. It was like this really hyped up concert because here's two big names playing with us... and let me tell you... at the concert... you could hear a pin drop. C.C. DeVille was terrible.. the guy can't play for the life of him... and Steven... he can't even hold a beat anymore let alone play drums. We'd look bad and the guy was literally smoking crack while on stage during the songs. It was possibly the worst concert of my life... I mean... there's only so many times that a guy can die from an overdose and come back alive...[Madagascar88, January 2006]

With 'Appetite,' for me the parts, playing, etc., timing flaws, whatever, are perfect, and as a moment in time for me, the whole record is. That said, the sound of the drums, which at the time in our niche of the woods was a bit of a bold statement and a somewhat successful effort to change things from the current flow at the time, and so may have been necessary but for me sound the most dated of anything there sound-wise (...) The public has no idea what went into Steven's parts and the notion of getting through songs in rehearsal if ever, with no exaggeration, was unfortunately a nightmare that neither I or Izzy could take, and eventually the others as well, though they lasted longer for other reasons [Axl interview by Del James, spinner.com, 2009]

For me, it's exactly the opposite.  Guns N Roses was established and defined by five guys playing rock n roll music that reflected their genuine living-on-the-edge lifestyle.  Regardless of how long any given member stayed in the band, I look at the original five as an unit -- separable by life bullshit but inseparably linked based on what they created and accomplished together, and what they gave the fans as a unit together.

For anyone out there -- let alone those on a Guns N Roses fansite -- to discredit, insult, or hurl outright hatred towards any of those five guys is truly astounding to me.  Steven (like the other four guys) made mistakes and isn't a saint, but the hatred towards him -- on a Guns N Roses fansite, no less -- is staggering to me.



True indeed.  But all of those are related to his drug usage.  A clean Steven would be much different than the Steven described in those quotes.

I personally have never denied that Steven would need to be fully clean for any kind of GNR reunion.  But if he is, there is no reason why the band (who knows him better than we do) and Steven couldn't reconcile and include him in any upcoming shows.  It's been pointed out several times that he sounded incredibly tight musically with Slash and Duff at the Hall of Fame performance.

No, I don't agree that is is only his various addictions and drug use- he seems not to have a filter in interviews and is easily led and manipulated into saying the most regrettable and unfortunate statements, he has blatantly lied about his state of sobriety in the past- how many times since he was fired has he been "six months sober"?, it is as much what he says as it is his chemical problems and I honestly wonder if he hasn't permanently damaged his brain with the various drugs and overdoses.

I don't think he did an exemplary job at the RRHOF, he seemed to be out of the pocket completely at times and relying on Duff to maintain his timing.

 That said, it would be a noble gesture of GNR to give him a guest spot or two- do I think he is capable or reliable enough to handle it full time without incidents? No.

Do I think he will be offered a full time slot? Thankfully No.

Or maybe since he got him into playing guitar and maybe since they used to be close friends... maybe they are just jamming for this thing?

Oh.. I forgot, you're an Adler basher. Opps.

My bad.

I dunno if they are "fanboys".... i think its more a case of... we have not been this close to having the classic line up since forever... and people are pushing for Steven and Izzy to be included because they have this romantic notion in their minds that if it happens it'll take them back to 1987.. etc... ill admit... ive been guilty of that to a point...

However.. if people step back and look at the situation... its fairly obvious (to me at least) that steven and izzy arent viable options for a full tour for varying reasons... i am at ease with it...

would i prefer to get the illusion guys in over richard and frank... yes. but again.. that's probably the romantic nostalgic side of me coming out again coupled with a bit of anti chinese era coming out too.  ;)

I can live with a line up of, frank, richard, slash, duff and Axl though.. and i think its obvious thats what we will get. It will still rock like hell, and i cant wait.

Great Post-

I prefer to be glad for what is happening, instead of being upset over what's not happening-  don't honestly see many people are going to decide not to go based on who the drummer is, or isn't.

As long as he behaves I think he'll get some guest time at least here and there.  Thats all I really care about.

Here is the reality.  We all have favorites from the past and present.  I just want as many of them on GOOD TERMS with axl as possible.
I want a healing for all parties.  I dont have to have Adler and Izzy back in full time.  I just want them involved in the legacy, and not on the complete outs.
Because....they are part of the legacy.  G n R is a collection of great players.  Frank is awesome at drums.  I just want to see everyone involved,
and included.  The more talent the better.

The irritating part about it is that everyone has to be on "perfect" terms with Axl or nothing happens. I really really don't like that aspect of this whole thing.

Well as you know, I've been very vocal about what I really wanted to happen and I got 75% of it, so I'm ecstatic! 😀

I do think the people who are overly vocal about the whole "it's not GNR unless Izzy is involved, are more casual fans who know the history of the band but probably aren't familiar with why this isn't possible. It's simply the fact Izzy doesn't want the hoopla and the touring has never say well with him as well as the spotlight. And that spotlight is shining very bright on GNR right now.
Frankly I get sick of reading keyboard warrior comments on Facebook slagging Axl and guns because it looks like Izzy and Steven aren't going to have a major role. The reasons are there pretty clearly for the rest of us.

Anyway, on a personal note, this reunion could not have come at a worse time for me lol
If it had of happened 18 months ago or at any time before that I'd have been straight to the states for multiple shows, but I had a baby recently and it's just not possible so I'm hoping that this all works out and they get down my way soon!

Congratulations on the new addition!

I get very tired of hearing people complain about why this regrouping isn't what they want- it gets old, and people aren't really dealing with the reality that a full AFD reunion hasn't been advertised, nor is it likely -aside from some guest appearances.

Hope GNR gets to your continent and that things work out for you to go to a show.  :peace:

"Heavy is the head that wears the crown"

comprende?

Cheers Emily  :beer:


100% agree ^^^ I actually find it quite absurd that there's still people with a negative opinion on this... I know I've been accused of negativity on here and I'm not blind enough not to admit that, but what is happening with GNR right now is s minor miracle, so to actually see it happening has personally blown me away all things considered.

Although I won't get to a states show I'll be all over it (from Aus) and no doubt il get all the inside reviews from you guys so it's still going to be special watching this unfold. Hope you can get to a shoe or 2 mate :)

The new lineup is killer....excited for the shows. A lot of people will actually be able to go and not be forced to watch Youtubes of the '72 Stones.  :hihi:

It's his show, man.

Things have to at least be decent with everybody if they are seriously talking about doing an entire tour.

Slash played that benefit last night. Steven wasn't there according to reports.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcNdwtuWIAERGRO.jpg:large)

(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12802733_1042865442436935_5637410147596771431_n.jpg?oh=6f9cc2ef6c093d02dc6593290179018d&oe=57648529)

Whether you like Adler as a person or not is irrelevant.  Musically, AFD (Probably their best album, if not at least on par with the Illusions albums) would never have been what it was without Adler.  Even some of the Illusions songs could have been better with Adler on them vs. Sorum.  Sorum is a "power" drummer.  Adler is "swing" drummer...two completely different styles that can easily be distinguished from listening to AFD/Lies vs. Illusions.  So of course I would like to see Adler on least a few, if not all, the AFD/Lies songs.  Any true fan would.

ding ding ding

bingo

thanks I agree 100%

This topic  should be closed .  Frank's  the man behind the kit fact  Steven will possibly get a few guest appearances, maybe.  You'll see wil all see.   Yes appetite is one of the best rock n roll albums of all time but GNR are much more than just that album.   The train hasn't stopped rolling,   #GnFnR

I think Frank replicates what's needed perfectly, the question has to be can Steven...  And why disrupt the flow to appease a few purist when in truth 99.9% really don't give a fuck about him.  And yes I am in that camp.

most probably he just had a dose or two in the backstage, mumbling how he totally deserves to be a GNR drummer :hihi:

I feel (and im not going through a 10 page thread to read it all)Adler should for a show or two at least be involved as say a guest star type deal.

Probably shouting it from "the toppest mountain"  :hihi:

I prefer Sorum to Adler as a drummer anyway (more of a metal than a rock fan, and his driving style is a lot heavier), but Frank is a perfectly competent drummer himself.

That's simply not true.  Other than this particular forum, the vast majority of fans on every single other G N' R forum and the vast majority of fans spending thousands of dollars between flights, hotel stays and tickets to see them in Vegas do indeed want to see Adler involved in at least some capacity.  That is a fact. 

I think you need to look up what the word "fact" means.

Have you been on any other forums?  Have you spoken to anyone else about Adler other than this thread on this forum?  So you think 99.9% of people (fans) don't care about Adler's involvement?   ::)

Doesn't make your statement a FACT.  It's peoples' opinions and, as the saying goes, everyone's got one.

The vast majority of complainers do nothing but sit behind a screen.  If guns kept on after 93 this wouldn't even be a discussion.  Steven is a great drummer but he hasn't been in guns since 89, it's 2016.  This is not a reunion tour. It's a reunion between Axl Slash n Duff.   Izzy has always been behind the scenes he's a different story.  I've seen him play a handful of shows since 2006 .  If Steven gets a guest spot great if he doesn't who cares.  The tour will sell out anyway regardless.  Frank is the best drummer the band has had in the last decade.  He's got soul funk and a killer groove.

I'll rephrase then.  The fact is that the majority of fans I've personally interacted with over the past few weeks and months would like to see Adler involved in some capacity.   : ok:

Yeah I have run into sort of  the same thing with people I know.  Honestly, pretty much all of my friends have asked about Matt Sorum and not Steven Adler.  A lot of that is our age, the Illusions were at the top of the charts when we first started discovering music.  Sorum is the GNR drummer we grew up with.   But the general feeling I'm getting from people is it would be cool if he or Adler is  involved, but they won't care if they aren't.   They can take it or leave it.  That's pretty much where I am at with it as well.

It seems to be pretty clear Frank is the drummer, which I think it awesome.  Whether or not Steven plays a few songs here and there, well have to see.  As I've said before his silence really makes me think he is involved in some capacity.  I can't imagine him being quiet if he was told he will have nothing to do with these shows.

I'm just happy Chris Pitman looks to be out of Gn'R.

Anyways...

Steven should be included. I just don't see how some of you guys don't want him there. You act like "well if he's not there who cares?".

I think most of us care we just forget how cool he was in the band. I wasn't old enough at the time to see him in the band, but videos sure do make it cool. Just as long as he is involved in a consistent basis I think that is cool. Which I'm sure he will be.

I'm not convinced Pitman is out, so your little party may be jumping the gun- pun intended. I like Pitman and I hope he is still in, very talented guy.

First show I saw was the AFD lineup, the reason I don't care if Adler is included or not all stems from his behavior and his mouth these many years.

It would be very gracious if GNR offered him a few guest spots, but if his talent was so special many people would have clamored to use him and that simply isn't the case. Even the GNR alumni have used him sparingly and we all know why- its not a secret.

I don't really think that Pitman will be kicked out just for saying bullshit on the internet. Those desiring it may be wasting time.

Wise words. Great post. : ok:

This is something people seem to forget. Or then they just don't get it. Sure, GN'R would get even more attention if they'd bring back the AFD-lineup and all the fanboys would jizz their pants, but what if that's not what they, as a band, want to do? Some like to think that getting the AFD-lineup back together would make it all like it was 1987 again, but it's been 30 years and GN'R is still moving on, like it or not. That's what good bands do. And if Frank is the best choice for the progress to happen, then I'm happy.


Oh right, that makes it all different, as you weren't old enough to see the AFD-lineup play. It sure must have been cool back then, there is no doubt, I'd like to see it too. But since there's no time machine, it's not possible and bringing back Steven now would not really be the same.

Indeed, but it might be he said what he said because he was pissed off about not being included.  Who knows?  All speculation at this point, we'll know when the first show starts and not before, I think.

The bottom line is that Steven is over rated. He has not been part of GNR for a very long time because of his lack of integrerity, not his drumming ability. He was supposed to be part of a benefit with Slash and he was a no show.
Nostalgia for your youth and a bygone era is a powerful thing that is often clouded  as you remember the good and forget the bad.

oh come on, someone finally give Adler a job he can do (like doing drugs in the backstage or bring pizza onstage in "I totally deserve to be a GNR drummer" t-shirt), so he finally shuts up. yes, this is not a question of his drumming skills, but personality, reliability etc. he's a wasted junkie, who would fuck things up at any opportunity.

Chris Pitman's sub bass and minimal participation in the studio songs is kinda overrated I think.

This can go both ways. You guys want to bash Adler. I think Pitman is the least important member of post 1998 GnR

 I think they should have Steven in the band.  He really has been the one pushing to try to have this reunion happen it would be a shame if he wasn't included.  The only thing that would concern me about Steven being in the band is would be be able to stay sober

That argument is kinda lame. Ofcourse he has been the one pushing for it, he never let go of his glory days like the Star Football player in High School who never did much with his life. And I sincerely doubt that he is sober now. Also not showing up for a benefit concert for a guy with cancer with no announcement is also lame.

I never knew he was confirmed to show up with Slash? Isn't that just a rumor? Who knows.

Also, you're hate for Adler is disgusting. He's just as good as Frank or Matt. Different.

I wouldn't want him back in full time either. I think he would at some point make a mistake. Who knows? Maybe he would need something like this to get back on track.

For the last 2 years or so, for all we know he is sober finally. He does pose the most risk, which isn't what Gn'R need. Frank is the drummer so relax. We are just talking about him being involved in a part time or special guest manner, which he should be.

To say he should at least appear and play something with everyone is just dumb. Why would anyone be against the guy playing like 3-4 songs at 1 show at least? I personally think he should be allowed to close the shows by playing 2-3 songs to end it. Every show or most of them. I think he deserves that in a lot of ways.

He might get 1 full show or just a couple appearances so the Adler haters can just chill it out. If this was a Chris Pitman thread dedicated mostly to bashing him we'd all be banned and scolded...

#lame

Why do people keep talking like this is 1987 and they are just going out to support Appetite for Destruction. This whole thing is more then just about AFD Steven has not played UYI material and certainly not Chi Dem stuff I want the guy who can play everything and that is Frank. If Axl, Slash or Duff came out and said this is just an AFD tour then i could possibly understand wanting steven but really cmon people get your head out of the ground and realize there is more to GNR then just AFD.

Exactly.  Slash and Duff are rejoining Guns N Roses, which has been an active band for the last 30 years.  They are probably going to be playing "Chinese Democracy" material as well.  I understand it being a big deal that Slash and Duff are playing in the band for the first time in 23 years so people are going to romanticize the past.  That being said, the last time Slash and Duff played in Guns Steven was long gone anyway!  It's not like he was anywhere near the band in 1993, the "Appetite" era was long gone and the band already evolved into writing more complex (and better IMO) music at that point.

Like I said, if  Steven gets a guest spot great, but its definitely not weird if he doesn't. It certainly shouldn't be some requirement that he is involved.

Couldn't agree more.  It's annoying as it is bizarre to see these vocal minorities clamoring for Steven's involvement as if the lack of it somehow illegitimizes the lineup. If he jumps up there for, say, Rocket Queen, great!  But these people hoping to relive some show they paid 20 bucks to see in 1988? Gimme a break. Not gonna happen.

IMO, the band has gone out of their way in the marketing to not sell this as a full on "reunion", only that Slash and Duff are "regrouping" with Axl and GNR. Anyone hoping for more are basically going out of their way to make sure they are disappointed with whatever happens.

Rumor? His name was advertised on the poster for the event.

No hate for Adler here, simply a realistic attitude about all his many drug issues, his lying and the divisive and unfortunate things he has said publicly over the years.

Adler "deserves" nothing- he was fired and has done nothing but relapse and run his mouth for years- if they included him for some special guest spots it would be very gracious and benevolent of GNR members and mgmt- hope it doesn't come back to bite them.

Honestly don't think you are cognizant of all Pitman contributes, He serves a role in CD songs and he's got song writing credits, too- and he made the film clip used in promos this year-

If anyone has an irrational prejudice it is you.

#lameignorance

LoL

Pitman does things. I know he does the technological stuff, plays keyboards "somtimes" and did lots of "sub bass" on CD  :rofl:

I respect him, but I'm glad he mouthed off and it probably out. You on the other hand are just another mouse on a wheel. You tend to ignore Steve and his contributions which are easy to forget 25+ years after he was fired.

It's easy to sit here in 2016 and say this and that. Yeah he's a screw up, but he still belongs in a get together with the guys.

I don't think Pitman is "probably out" at all.

I may be a "mouse on a wheel" but this mouse actually saw the AFD lineup back in the day and isn't blind nor fanboy fantasizing over Adler while ignoring the reality of the situation.

His being fired did nothing to GNRs popularity at the time, it was a story on MTV that nobody really cared about. He didn't write a thing and only has courtesy credits on songs.

I hope if GNR are gracious enough to allow him to guest that it doesn't come back to haunt them. Fingers crossed!

I think with the little evidence that we do have, its safe to say Frank is the Number 1 drummer for these shows. Anything else would be a huge surprise at this stage. So that discussion is as good as done. Adler getting any time behind the drums will probably be down to how his behaviour is leading up to the shows. My gut feeling is he we will see him do 3 or 4 AFD songs, and that will be it. This keeps his involvlement to a minimum (minimises risk), it keeps him and the die hards happy and provided he delivers a performance on those songs everyone goes home relatively happy.

If anything outside of this scenario happens (other then addler not being involved at all).. id be surprised.

I dont think there is much left to say on this topic to be honest.. other then.. lets wait and see.

Great overview- I think you are right, good summation and conclusion, best bet is definitely to take a wait and see approach.  : ok:

We will know in 6-7 weeks!

I am coming around to Frank lately.. he seems like a loyal guy, and his drumming is more than competent. I can see why Axl has trusted him for so long.

6 weeks to go...... bring it on.  :beer:

"still i look to find a reason, to believe bitch."

Says the guy with CD 2 plasted in his sig?

No one wants CD2 at this moment in time. Especially if it takes another 3 years or more. (since CDI took 10+ years)

I think original music with this lineup would be great!

How do you know that "no one" wants CD2, did you take a legitimate poll, or are you pretending to speak for everyone?

youre trippin man. i want it to come out, sure, but i aint bitchin about it. why would i want to darken the mood just because my own personal preferences may not be met? i'd rather just join in on the celebration.

i would say that there are people that want cd2, but im just going to get some generic "this is how it is, and thats a fact, and if you disagree you're wrong" type stuff, so, yknow.

CD 2 being released before new fresh songs would be a perfect treat. This material can't be left behind, even though I'm afraid that's what's gonna happen.

It could always be released as an Axl Rose solo album....better to have all that material in the can than not have it.  :beer:

I'm happy about Slash and Duff being back in GNR.  I would be even happier if Steven was somehow involved.

To bash some (former) drug addict is just pitiable and says a lot about some boardmembers character.
please get a life and try to build up some self-esteem. fuckin loser.

You do realize that Steven Adler was the drummer when the vast majority of the the Illusions songs were written, yes?  And you do realize that Sorum learned the songs from Illusions, he didn't write any of it...yes?

So obviously, for any G N' R purist, Adler would be great to see on stage at some point with the other guys....not just because of AFD....but because he was the drummer when most of the AFD AND Illusions catalog was written.

That being said, I like Frank and how he represents most of their songs.  But if it came down to Sorum vs Adler for a few guest spots, it would be Adler all the way for me.

Adler played on civil war... and i think (Dont cry)... that was it. He may have been the drummer when all this stuff was written and put together.. but he had almost zero input into Illusions because he was useless in this time period. In fact, from everything that's been said, its a minor miracle he got his parts down for civil war at all... and even that was pieced together.

Look, im not an Adler basher, and im not a fan boy either... i'm somewhere in the middle.. but people who are championing for Adler really hard to get a spot are missing some fundamental points which even Axl has addressed publicly with steven. Its not as easy as just saying... yeah no worries stevie boy.. your in/ There us a myriad of issues to be sorted through, both legally and non-legally. This tour cannot afford any circus sideshows derailing it. As most people have said on here.. if he gets a few songs.. awesome... minimises the risk to the whole project... if he doesn't.. then its understandable given the situation.

 

But Sorum didn't lay down the drum tracks looking at sheet music of Adler's performance in the same fashion Brain did with Josh's tracks.

Surely there were demos of the Illusion songs, but most of them with a drum machine I would imagine. There were some early live performances as well, but I haven't compared those with what Sorum ended up recording on the albums. They don't have to be the same.

As far as I know, Sorum wrote all of the Illusion drum parts with the exception of Civil War and some fills which he was given input on.

This is the best thing I have read in weeks. 

If you had told me several years ago that Axl, Duff, and Slash would be doing shows but some people would be whining about Adler not being involved I'd think you were high.

Totally mind blowing, it wasn't this big of a whine fest when he got fired. It wasn't a big deal at all at that time and a great deal of the whiniest whiners admit they never saw him perform with the band.

I don't get it.

Me either.  We live in strange times. If you had told me last year that Donald Trump had a serious shot at being president I would have bust out laughing and fallen off my chair.  :hihi:

Well you two are just a couple of "cool" chicks eh?

Straightlaced thinking I think.

Maybe it is because no one really though Axl and Slash could ever co-exist? It was bad blood beyond bad blood. Or wait? Are you going to tell me that they weren't that mad at eachother?

Are you going to twist it around like you do everything else around here? LoL

If Slash can make amends with Axl, then so can Adler.

Slash is a much better person than Steven. He had tremendous success on his own unlike Steven
I have always been Team Axl and I am happy that 2 great musicians were able to make peace.
As far as Steven goes

Band aids don't fix bullet holes
You say sorry just for show
You live like that
You live with ghosts

Haha! You can continue to throw in little putdowns but it really doesn't strengthen your argument at all.  :hihi:

The point is, it may be possible to make amends with Adler, but why should they?

He has a 20 year history of lying, relapsing, and saying the most regrettable things publicly.

He has sued the band twice and blamed them for his addictions.

I know you weren't around, but Adler's firing didn't adversely affect the band's popularity at all when it happened.

So why should they want to work with him again and have to deal with his many issues?

What Steven wrote for Guns N' Roses?

It seems that Adler didn't play in this event,

Rainbow in the Dark
https://youtu.be/5DOcnw1uYkQ (https://youtu.be/5DOcnw1uYkQ)

Day Tripper
https://youtu.be/G5VV1VWNIRQ (https://youtu.be/G5VV1VWNIRQ)

Willie Basse- vocals, Slash-guitar, Mitch Perry-guitar, Mike Olivieri, Vinny Appice on drums

What is there not to get?

If you had told me years ago, that Axl, Duff and Slash would be doing shows together, I?d assume Izzy and Adler or Sorum would be involved, because Axl, Slash and Duff sounds like the makings of a GN?R reunion.
I don?t think that?s an outrageous assumption. No one is saying that is how it must be. No one is ignoring the reality that not everything is as easy as it sounds.

If you took a poll of GN?R fans, and asked them if they would prefer to see the lineup that created the bulk of AFD-UYI, or Axl, Slash and Duff, plus 4 guys you?ve never heard, that weren?t around to contribute in any way shape or form to AFD-UYI, I think it?s a safe bet the majority might lean towards option 1.
Most people couldn't care less if Steven lied, did drugs, or sued a former band mate. He?s not exactly lonely in those departments, and it has nothing to do with the music.

Why does it matter if people were upset at the time he was fired? How is that at all relevant in preferring to see him involved in some capacity in 2016?
 
No matter how badly anyone wants to paint the picture that Steven didn?t have a hand in GN?R?s success, there simply isn?t any evidence to support this.
There is only evidence to the contrary.

If you?re looking for a drummer that didn?t contribute anything of note to GN?R during their hey day, look no further than Frank Ferrer.
He is there, at least in part due to the fact that Steven fucked up many moons ago.
Just like Richard has the gig in part due to Izzy walking away.

Ideally Steven doesn't develop a drug problem, and Izzy finds a way to put up with Axl?s dictator qualities, and Slash, Duff?s drug habits, but that?s not how it went.
Strictly from a fans perspective, if possible, while everyone is still alive, which is no small feat, it would be cool to see them work things out and do this tour right.

Simply put, the prospect of seeing Axl, Slash and Duff on stage again is exciting.
The prospect of seeing Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven on stage again, to me and countless others is more exciting. Much more.

The Adler zealots have totally worn me down.

At this point, I want him involved just to stop these impassioned "won't someone PLEASE think of THE CHILDREN?!" caliber pleas on his behalf.

So please : Fernando, TB, Axl...whoever.  Please include him.  Don't subject the rest of us a to a full summer of having to hear how Steven was done wrong.

well I've always been suggesting including Adler - as a delivery boy of pizza. or drugs. or pizza with drugs.

But then ask them to name 'em they would get Axl, Slash and Duff (or say Duffy  :rant: I hate that BTW) then a significant number would trip up on the other 3 from those albums.  Today, if you failed to mention the line up, the majority (or approaching that number) wouldn't even notice. (Richard would be confused with Izzy, Dizzy was in a few videos and Chris would be assumed to be a new guy.  Frank, being hidden behind the drums wouldn't trigger any questions 1 way or the other.

I'm not talking about the fans BTW, but the 30-40% who will be in the audience along with partners/friends but like the hits

If Izzy's out I see no reason to involve Steven. It's not a reunion, it's not a revival party. Move on.

Yea, I agree with that.
And there are clearly more than enough casual fans to sell out shows, regardless who?s playing with Axl and Slash.
I do know plenty of people whom would go if it was the classic 5, and have opted not to mainly due to Izzy?s absence, but again, the casual fans are probably enough to fill most venues.

All that said, if you laid out the options I listed above, I still don?t see even the casual fan choosing option #2.

When it?s all said and done, if it were announced today that Izzy and Steven were to be involved, I don?t believe for a second that many people here would be disappointed.
Those are the five guys that made most of us fans in the first place. They are the guys that made history.
The current rumored lineup is a mix of the guys that made history, and a few guys that stood on the sidelines and witnessed it like us.

I'm so confused as to what this thread is about. haha!!!

I hope he's not, just so they all finally jump off whatever ledge they're standing on.  :hihi:

I guess I fall dead in the middle.

I would pick Matt for the drums, followed by Steven and then take your pick between all the drummers that contributed to Chinese Democracy.

I really struggle to understand how one would PREFER to have Frank be the drummer in Guns N Roses With Axl, Slash and Duff. 

I don't hold the guys drug issues agaisnt him in the pecking order.

However... it doesn't bother me much and I couldn't be any more excited to witness this historic event regardless of who is back there.

All these drummer posts and threads are really repetitive... can't wait till they stop!

I don't.

I'd struggle to understand anyone that was super pro-Frank that was also not seriously invested in making sure the 2001 line-ups get their just due.

But, since I have yet to see a person make that argument that was not part of both groups, I get it.  Don't agree with it, but get the rationale.

Well yeah I get that about the stance...

but Slash and Duff are back... so fighting that fight is a little bit moot now.

well Brain is out for long, didn't want to do awkward things when Frank was in and gradually drifted completely away from GNR.
Josh Freese was more a session drummer, irrelevant.
not counting other guys briefly playing with GNR (Dave Abbruzzese), only Frank is a realistic option, and a very good one IMO.

I see Frank, Richard, and Chris as concessions to Axl.

As in, if that's what Axl needs to give the appearance that he isn't simply turning his back on the past 15 years...so what?  Cost of doing business.

As zombux pointed out, Brain was the drummer in 2001.

Frank is the current drummer for GNR and so there's nothing moot about fighting the fight that he, along with Dizzy, Chris, and Richard, are very deserving of their places on that stage along side Axl, Slash and Duff.

I didn't say he isn't deserving or has done a bad job since he took over... but I see no reason why any fan would be attached to Frank as the drummer over one of the TWO drummers that were prominently featured on 90 percent of GNR's music.

Yep, and it would make Slash & Duff rejoining seem somewhat organic.  And you also have to consider that those guys are on the unreleased music as well, and might make playing those songs easier live depending on how involved they are.

You mean you don't see why someone would be attached to the present, or at least close to the present, rather than something from say two decades ago?
To put it in another way, people know Frank can play any of those songs. He's been part of GN'R for almost ten years by now.

Now, before anybody's underwear starts getting uncomfortable, I'm not saying anything about whether or not Steven should or shouldn't be included. Only pointing out why Frank is a favorite for some fans. :)



/jarmo

Mr Reliable, you get exactly what's required, he doesn't fuck up, he doesn't put you on edge he delivers, what's not to like... End of

The more of those guy Axl can keep around, the less you are hit with questions about how you gave up the ghost and retreated back to safer ground.

Suppose Axl, in addition to Slash and Duff, brought back Gilby and Matt and told Chris he wasn't needed any longer.  The obvious impression would be that he cashed out and went back to last thing that connected with the public.

How are they concessions when they are already in the band?  Slash and Duff appear to be rejoining Axl, Richard, Dizzy, Chris, and Franks band..  That might be uncomfortable for some to acknowledge, but those are the facts.  Those guys have played every single show with the band for over a decade.

I know I'm kind of in the minority on this, but this doesn't look like a reunion to me, but a continuation with Slash and Duff rejoining the band.  Maybe I'm just crazy.

Concessions??

It will be more of a concession on Axl's part if Steven is thrown a bone and allowed to participate in the upcoming shows in any way, shape or form.

no, you're absolutely right.

I don't think so. 

But it seems that its important to you that's all seen as a straight line evolution.  Would that be fair to say?

Call me crazy... id rather see the musicians behind the songs on stage. That's all.

Nothing against Frank. Guy has done solid work in concert all the times I have seen him.

I'm just really hoping that Slash being on the next official GNR release was part of the "package".  I know he lives outside of time in terms of putting shit out, but I have to believe that Axl and all involved parties understand that after the upcoming shows that Slash not appearing on the next record is not an option.

Think of it like this.

When talking to Slash and Duff about coming back, it no doubt came up who the other guys would be.  Would it be Izzy and Steven?  Would it be Gilby and Matt?  Would it be the guys who have been manning both posts most recently?

I think its important to Axl to have it be the latter, for appearances sake.  To help sell how organic and totally natural this all is.

And if you are Slash and Duff, maybe you care, maybe you don't.  But you might also not have enough of a dog in the fight to care, so you just shrug your shoulders and tell Axl it's fine by you.

Everyone wins in that scenario, no?  Axl, Slash and Duff, the fans who get to see the shows.

Assuming there even is one.

I think its hardly outside the realm of possibility this tour could be a victory lap of sorts for all involved.

Could be.  I'm only basing this on the recent rumors that Slash is currently recording for Guns.  Who knows what's real with the complete lack of concrete info.

I don't believe it has anything to do with appearance or whatever you want to call it.

I just don't think they view Steven has a viable full time option... and for whatever reason... Matt isn't wanted...

As for the other guys... Richard is the perfect guy for Izzy's spot and there you go...

I don't think there is a lot more to it than that.

HOWEVER ... I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHY MATT SORUM WAS NOT ASKED OR CONSIDERED .

If true, and like you say...who the hell knows, that's the wildest part of all of this.

Slash on as yet unreleased stuff under the GNR banner is, at least to me, even more improbable than him playing with Axl live again.

Would be one insane turn of events, and good fortune for we fans.

If we really are to believe that DJ & Tommy left on their own with no prior knowledge of the upcoming reunion, then I think it's safe to assume that Frank, Richard & Chris were kept out of respect for their time in the band and for their loyalty to Axl over the years.  Really don't think it's more complicated than that.

Yeah you are probably right.

It would be Slash doing Axl and the fans a MAJOR, MAJOR solid if he's recording for Chinese Democracy II, or whatever it's called.  However unlikely it may be, I honestly believe that's the only way we'll get a proper album from GNR again.  Axl hasn't recorded, at length anyway, since the early 00s. I just don't see him writing and recording a new album again...with any lineup.  Has to be songs he already recorded vocals for.

That's gotta be it.  Duff already gets along great with them, knows their styles, etc. I'm sure he told Slash they're solid players, and we know he already had Richard on his radar from back when he tried to poach him to play in his touring band. It probably was a very short conversation between the big three that ended with them settling on the lineup we'll be seeing. 

Steven won't be more than a guest, if that.

I share all of those opinions.

What songs?
You're aware that different people were involved with different songs?





Do you know this as a fact?

Could be many reasons.
For one, if you know Adler isn't going to play the full tour, or full shows, why bring in Sorum when you already have someone who knows all the material? Just to please some people who desperately want to see the Use Your Illusion tour line up? That might not even happen if Izzy isn't involved? So then what? Get Gilby (another replacement)?




/jarmo

Honestly doesn't make a difference to me how it is seen by people, I don't get involved in all that perception nonsense.  I care about the music.  I will be there April 8th and 9th and I couldn't care less how anyone else in the arena interprets how we arrived at this point when the lights go down.  I am just stating what at least to me seem to be some facts.  DJ, Ron and Tommy left, and Slash and Duff came back in.  No?

 It seems to me like some fans on here and the media mostly are pretending GNR haven't played a gig since 1993 and Axl is randomly assembling this band out of nowhere and not including certain members because he just met these guys Richard, Chris and Frank last weekend.

I'm assuming he wasn't asked... can't see him saying no to this.  :)

He is also very close with Duff and Slash ... so he makes sense on lots of levels. They have been playing music with him for a very long time.

Again... I'm 100 percent on board with whoever is the drummer... and if Izzy doesn't want to be a part of this... Richard is the perfect guy. Just some thoughts I've had.

Bodhi, your facts don't make for a nice romantic alternative history of GN'R that some fans seem to believe in! ;)





That's true.
But those other bands aren't GN'R...

The one real band he was in with those guys broke up...



/jarmo

Well, yeah, there is going to be some of that.  Not so much here, but more in terms of general public perception.

Not really sure anything can be done about it either.

But who cares?  This should be the best summer for us in forever.  Worrying about how people that aren't us haven't kept tabs on the coming and going of the past 15 years shouldn't really detract from that.

I disagree with this. Here is Why.

1. There is no evidence to suggest that Axl doesnt want new music released. To me.. at least... he has recorded and tried to get what he wants out there in the past. Now... for what reasons it hasnt been released, well thats up to debate... but if he had no intention of ever releasing new music.. why record anything with the old band?

Now... at a guess (and its my personal opinion only) Axl either didnt trust the previous members in guns to get the album he wanted out.. for whatever reason... maybe it didnt sound right? maybe he didnt think there was enough interest without the classic members? who knows... but its not out and we know hes worked on stuff.. so the intention is there.

The other reason i think its not that improbable is, that Slash and Duff like to work. When this first came up.. and they got talking, i dont think its unreasonable to assume that making new music together was a topic that was discussed. They are all musicians.. Slash is well known for wanting to keep getting his work out there. Axl is on record as saying he has wanted Slash's sound on new music in the past (a long way back) and duff is pretty easy going and would be up for anything presumably...

So once the issues were fixed between Axl & Slash... and deciding they COULD work together, making new music isnt that much of a stretch really.  again... thats just my personal opinion. It may or may not happen... and we arent in 1996 anymore... but if something comes out we havent heard and slash and axl is on it, i wouldnt be surprised from here.

Ha! If every Adler fanboy I've seen demanding that he be involved were to jump off a ledge if he isn't it might rival the stock market crash ledge jumpers of 1929.  :hihi:

Well put.

I don't expect anything from the band, but I sure hope they release stuff again. I just don't get why people think Axl follow any particular pattern on releasing and recording stuff when he clearly showed different behavior towards that. For one thing, Chinese Democracy was a totally different situation and it will never be happen again.

I think the question of the sound he wants on an album is interesting. When Bumblefoot came in to replace some guitar tracks, Axl was more than happy to do it, but still left out plenty of Robin and Buckethead solos - I assume because he felt they were the best of all the recordings. Still, I guess he felt responsable for the new GNR sound and had a very hard time to get it up with all those guys with their own styles to be at a place where the original band was naturally. Maybe with Slash he feels comfortable enough to let him do it what he does because he is the original GNR sound, it's only natural. And maybe this whole writing/recording/mixing thing could be way faster and seamless.

Hope I made sense haha

That's a huge misconception.  Sorum learned the songs, according to Izzy himself.  Adler was in when most of it was written.  Yes, Adler would have been the one doing the songs an performing them YEARS before Illusions was even recorded.  Most of Illusions was written shortly after Appetite was out...some even before.  Just because he wasn't the guy recording the songs in the studio, doesn't mean he wasn't the guy who helped write it YEARS before.

You're right, there are some demos with Adler.

Back Off Bitch
Don't Cry
You Could Be Mine
Civil War
Don't Damn Me
Dust N' Bones
Garden Of Eden
Locomotive

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/misc/recordingsessions.html



Other than that, I can't see them transcribing drum parts for the rest of the songs for Sorum to play.

I don't know the specifics.  My initial post was to clarify that Sorum was not responsible for writing any of the illusions material....according to Izzy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI5yVZGmDr8

Starts talking about Sorum about 50 seconds into the video.

But writing songs isn't the same as putting your own drum parts in the song. You usually don't get writing credits for drum parts. Neither Adler or Sorum have writing credits on the Illusions.

Izzy mentions Matt's been busy learning the songs, as well as the band. I think he's talking about rehearsals for the live shows.