Here Today... Gone To Hell!

BBC Four to Air The Story of Guns N' Roses

In 1985, Sunset Strip in Los Angeles gave birth to what would become one of the most successful and notorious rock bands of all time: Guns N? Roses. Axl Rose, Slash, Duff McKagan, Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler formed a band that would change the history of rock 'n? roll.

They produced one of the greatest debut albums of all time and went on to play to countless millions. Always uncompromising, Guns N? Roses are an essential band in the musical lexicon.

Award-winning director Jon Brewer (B.B. King: The Life Of Riley and Nat King Cole: Afraid Of The Dark) tells the story of ?The Most Dangerous Band In The World? and how they came from playing bars on the Sunset Strip in Los Angeles to stadiums across the world. The explosive rise of one of the most notorious bands of our times ? it's a story of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll in excess. The film has been painstakingly compiled from a host of exclusive, never-before-heard interviews, and the early footage of Guns fan and friend Marc Canter.

It is testament to the legacy of this band that the past few years have been dominated with rumours of a reunion of the original members - which is now set to take place in 2016 at Coachella festival ? with more dates rumoured. This raw, insightful and compelling documentary tells the story of how it all began and what really happened behind the scenes. The film features exclusive interviews with the likes of Steven Adler ? drummer, Guns N? Roses; Marc Canter ? childhood friend of Slash from Guns N? Roses; Vicky Hamilton ? former manager of Guns N? Roses; Saul Hudson (aka Slash) ? lead guitarist of Guns N? Roses; Mario Maglieri ? owner of The Rainbow and Whiskey A Go Go; Michael Monroe ? lead singer of Hanoi Rocks; Matt Sorum ? drummer of Guns N? Roses; Tom Zutaut ? A&R Executive who discovered and signed Guns N? Roses. It also features exclusive live footage from Marc Canter? the man who documented the early days of Guns N? Roses.

Guns N? Roses are one of the most successful rock bands of all time, with their debut album Appetite for Destruction selling over 30 million copies worldwide and spawning some of the most famous rock songs ever written, like Welcome To The Jungle, Sweet Child O? Mine and Paradise City. Since that release in 1987, the original line-up of Guns N? Roses have gone to sell over 80 million records worldwide, releasing G N? R Lies 1988, Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II in 1991, and The Spaghetti Incident? in 1993.

Director Jon Brewer is quickly becoming one of the most sought-after filmmakers of the past decade; he has a way of telling the stories of icons which has captured audiences worldwide. His previous work has included documentaries on Jimi Hendrix, B.B. King and Nat King Cole.

This film was commissioned for BBC Four by Jan Younghusband, Head of Commissioning, Music TV.

The Most Dangerous Band In the World: The Story of Guns N? Roses is set for a premiere on BBC Four at 10pm on Friday 5 February 2016.



http://newsonnews.com/story/200116-2124

is that the same release as the one released years before? some random people speaking about the 80's era, then a few minutes after UYI era, one ChiDem era photo and that's all?

I think it's a new one.

It seems to be just another  Behind the Music like documentary. But at the same time it?s good to see GN?R getting media attention I guess.

Its the best part of all this.

I've heard more talk about GNR in the past month than I have the past 5 years.

They are no longer vacationing with Andrew McCarthy and Ally Sheedy somewhere off the face of the Earth.

sure, but still it could be more than stuff already heard for 1000 times, focusing at events almost 30 years old. I'd at least appreciate something newer, okay, at least UYI era if we pretend ChiDem era never existed.

Even though it likely has nothing new I'll be setting the Sky+... : ok:

I believe this is basically 'Reckless Road, The Movie'.  I liked the book, so I'd definitely be interested in seeing this.

Yep, at least Michael Monroe was doing his bit about a year ago. Or year and a half.

If it's done right, I think it might be good! BBC is usually pretty good with this kind of documentaries, right?

Yes- I think this should be pretty good. It's going to feature early footage from Mark Canter.

Nothing New

Maybe not for those who have actively followed this band for many years. But for those who have just found it or will find it in the near future, this certainly is interesting. I just hope that the documentary is done right.

True

 : ok:

Marc Canter files!!! Thats perfect!!!

I want to see that.

It would have been better if they waited a little and incorporated the reunion + some new footage.

I don't think so, now it's the best time. the reunion might be a flop when it actually hits the stages.

Marc Canter has not posted much last few weeks on mygnr.
Wonder if he was in contact with Axl somehow... and knew this was coming and just kept quiet about it, to try to get back in Axl's good graces. Or maybe Slash talked to him.

As far as this doc goes... I cringe anytime that Vicky Hamilton says anything about GNR.

I don't think the folks at BBC had a clue about what was going to happen with the band when they started the project. Nobody had.

I wonder when the Slash interview parts took place...

They probably have never before seen footage from Donington (I doubt they're going to gloss over the deaths) or Wembley, and probably get into their first shows in England which put them on the map there.

If anyone has any info of whether this will Air in Oz, please post, otherwise ill just youtube it eventually.

I'm always leery about these sorts of documentaries. Most of them wind up biased, missing a lot of important info, or chopped to bits due to run time constraints.

Jon Brewer was praised for his previous music documentaries. Has anyone seen any of them?

BBC4 music documentaries are usually pretty good. Who knows what this unseen footage will be but nevertheless sure it will be very watchable and will be positive and negative to be neutral. It's also on for 90 minutes and no adverts on bbc.

I hope that the biopic that Marc Canter had planned a couple years back hasn't morphed into this documentary. I remember Billboard said that the biopic was based on Canter's book and that they were seeking A list actors to star in the biopic.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the biopic plan has been changed into a Brewer documentary.

So apparently Tom Zutaut was interviewed for this and he has shed some "light" on the falling out between Axl and Slash.

He revealed: ?They found him dead near an elevator in a hotel somewhere.

"I don?t know how long it took for the ambulance to come but he was blue for a long time but they got him back."

Tom went further claiming that Axl believes he saw Slash?s soul leave his body in the form of a crow and fly away ? before being replaced by an impostor spirit.

He claims: "I think Axl genuinely believes that the soul of Saul Hudson left his body when Slash OD?d and there is a replacement Saul that has taken over Slash?s body and Axl truly does believe that.

"And I think that is the greatest stumbling block to getting the band back together.

"Whoever is in Saul?s body right now, it seems like Slash to me."

So there you have it folks. The truth is out.  :rofl:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz-tv/music/490899/Axl-Rose-Guns-N-Roses-split-soul-Slash-reunion

Some pretty compelling stuff.  ;) :D

So I can never say that Slash is playing with his soul anymore?  :'(

dumbest theory ever

they both were high as f**k, I guess :hihi:

Axl Sobered up a few months back  :hihi: :rofl:

BBC4 on Friday and Saturday nights is always great. Lots of different music documentaries on different subjects and old compilations of TOTP. Always interesting

Blake Sabbath on mygnr who've seen it (there was an advanced screening), says there's concert footage from 1985-87.

For those wondering, the documentary has licensed GN'R music in it as well.

Not going to lie... I laughed.

Thanks 4 this. Always is nice remember this stuff.

Hahaha!  What a story.  Sounds like pretty standard British tabloid fare, but it was funny.  :hihi:

It's not completely out of the realm of possibility... Axl was in to that shit back then no? With that spiritual advisor and what not.

Tom Zutaut lasted a long time with Axl too... He was around for a while.

Either way..its funny!

]Great Shout Mysteron,  The music moguls series has been excellent, last weeks dissection of David Bowie's Hero's by Tony Visconti revisiting the mixing desk and showing how it was assembled was for me the best 10 minutes TV I watched in ages.  : ok:

Tom Zutaut is clearly a sad paranormal fucktrumpet

Most likely Slash lost soul found it way back right after the reunion was announced. There is nothing to worry about   :hihi:

What's the best way for people outside of the UK to catch this on the BBC?

I figure a VPN will work, and with BBC being the state broadcaster they don't charge for streaming on their website?

This is worth trying, I think it will be available after it initially airs-
www.watchallchannels.com/bbc-four/

Thanks!

I just checked  on my xfinity  line up its not on there

What does it mean? Is it pulled?

This one has been posted at Mygnr for no UK residents. Hopefully it works

https://www.filmon.c...roup/uk-live-tv

The link is broken

Try again

https://www.filmon.com/group/uk-live-tv

Thanks! This will work, as well as the link Emily provided.

REMINDER: This one airs tonight.

Have my recording set... Off to watch Tyla (dogs D'amour) & spike (quireboys) tonight.

fraps or die

Small interview with the director, and some snippets of footage from the documentary:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35500435

thx Spirit, looks great

is it soon? I'm kinda lost with the timing here (I'm in Paris)

In 45 mins

ah, thx, I thought 10 PM = 22 Heures here.

Well it is, but it's 10PM (22:00) in the UK, which is 23:00 in France.

yup, I forgot to add one hour  :confused:

(http://s23.postimg.org/lif489i0r/guns.jpg)


 : ok:

just watched it,a big big thank you for the provided links.
Pretty good documentary not over the top but it was worth it.
Had live snippets from 89 (with M.Monroe) and also from that 3,30 hour show in Inglewood.

that was f@ck*ng cool

nothing really new but that was nicely done.
best documentary I've seen about the band.

It was alright I guess. There were footage I hadn't seen before so that was cool.

But it was sort of in the same vein as Behind The Music, felt like the same thing.

I hope we at one time get to see a documentary with current interviews from all the members, not only Slash, Steven and Matt. A documentary which focuses only on how the journey were through their eyes.

I feel like I've seen the same comments from Vicky and Zutaut on replay for every documentary now.

Some Pics and Video (Mobile Phone) here: https://www.facebook.com/GUNSNROSESonlineDE/

If you didn't see this airing, don't think you missed anything because there was nothing that you haven't seen or heard before.

I missed like the first half hour or so but the hour that I saw was just basically all the stories and clips we've seen and heard a bazzillion times before.  They updated it to add a clip with Adler on that reality tv show and there was a mention of VR.  There was some interview with Duff that was probably done just a few years back.  (it looked to me like he had this weird (healed) scar on his face like someone had attacked him with a switchblade  :nervous: )

Seemed to me to be another attempt by people that no longer have anything to do with anyone in the band trying to cash in by retelling the old stories.

There were never-before seen concert footage.

what do U want? inventing new stories? create new people who were not there?

Like what?  5 seconds worth?
Check out:  http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=6.0
You can download and watch those entire concerts there.

Would probably be better than listening to another telling of how Axl really did have sex with that girl on Rocket Queen and Izzy peeing in the aisle on the plane.
 

Edited to add: SPOILER ALERT!!!

From what I remember there were footage from the L.A. Street Scene Festival in 1986 and an April 3, 1985 rehearsal(?).

Lots of clips from 1986, which I can't remember seeing before, but others here might clarify.

I have BBC but not  BBC 4  how can  I see this  ???

If you're in the UK, or outside with a VPN:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06zdpkr/the-most-dangerous-band-in-the-world-the-story-of-guns-n-roses

Thanks. Made it with the Chrome extension Hola. : ok:

I thought it was a good documentary. There wS stuff there I hadn't seen before and they played plenty of music. Nice timing to release this documentary. Good stories from Marc Canter and nice to see clips of all the guys telling stories and the filmmakers knitted them all together nicely. Some funny little cut scenes the film makers made themselves and Right Next Door to Hell as an intro with a woman chasing a rabbit down a hole.. Cool

So this whole "Slash's soul exited his body via a crow" is new to me  :hihi:

Maybe it flew back in last year??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YiL7pOHCBQ yeah nais k

Marc Canter really needs to stop leeching off GNR
The 6th Beatle?
That's as bad as Jerry Heller thinking he can call himself the N word.
A leech is a leech is a leech

Had he started hanging out with them after they got successful, I would agree with you.

But he was friends with them, helping them and believed in them from before they even became Guns N Roses. I can't see any reason to be hostile towards the guy. Yes, he's been quite a lot in the media, but it started around the time he wanted to put out his book. It's a great book, and I would have been equally proud had I been the one doing that work.

Uploaded a HD 720p version for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snIlU8Oc2H8

I think it was kinda cool to see some footage from the L.A Forum 1991... Would love to see the full shows in this master quality.

That was absurd.

I liked where Steven says he could have stopped the riot with a drum solo  :hihi:

Thanks.

Thank you!

I also liked where silly old Stevie compared Poison to the Beatles!

Very cool. thanks for this.

Poison like the Beatles? LOL

I guess maybe they were in the since of girls going crazy maybe in that time and area of SoCal

Duran Duran more like the Beatles in that mid 80s really.

Poison and the Beatles though.... yikes. The only thing remotely comparable is the girls gone crazy factor. I dont think Steven meant it that way.

Dumb comment.

no wonder, he is and has always been full of shit. and drugs.

I like Steven man. He's a good dude.

And I am equally proud that I was able to return my copy to the point of purchase once I made the discovery that it was totality unauthorized   :smoking:

That made me laugh as well.  I think he would have been hit in the head with a bottle and ended up in an neurocritical care ICU

watching this now  thank you for uploading it  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

You're welcome guys, I've now also included the English subtitles for those of us who didn't catch everything at first. ;) You just have to activate them in Youtube!

Thank You !!!  :peace:

Its been said , but thanks a lot Will!

Without you it would have taken me twice the time to understand the whole thing, thanks buddy :beer:
Pretty good documental, nice shots from the band early days  :peace: . The only thing that I didn't like was the almost criminal omission of Dizzy (fucking) Reed, I mean come on, he was there when they toured the world at the peak of their popularity, and has been one of the people that have helped maintain the name alive, the man deserves some respect  >:(

Thanks for uploading it. I just finished watching it. Adler made me laugh a couple of times. The funniest part was when he was ok with Axl having sex with his girlfriend. I would have flipped out.

I LOVED  IT it was awesome :)

2/5 - the silly CGI and Alice in Wonderland didn't work for me. No Slash, Axl or Izzy too much Canter. I enjoyed the early footage but felt they could have shown more clips of early concerts such as the Ritz showing their progression from the raw street band into the world class band they became.

The trouble with being a hardcore fan is that programmes like this don't cater for the critical analysis within said fan.  This programme was made for mass appeal and as such is designed to entertain and give an overview of what made GnR the band it is. I have friends who aren't fans tell me how much they enjoyed the showing and hope to catch them the next time they come to the UK.

They liked the fact that Axl explained the lateness issue, that the band don't care about him, but that he eventually realised that it was affecting the crew, they actually respected his reasons for this  :hihi:

To the hardcore fan, nothing will satisfy their quest for facts they want to hear about, unless each member did a 3 hour programme about their experience of being in the band. This programme comes under the label of General Entertainment, to appeal to the mass market and this hits the spot in this respect.

Not able to see that youtube version. Says its not available. Just me?

-Eirik

works for me.
you can also download it from TPB, good quality MKV there.

Thx. Maybe it's just my phone then. Will check pc later.

-E

Youtube settings don't allow watching this video on mobile devices.

any idea of what Matt was talking about (the nicaragua army) ?  :confused:

Ok. Probably best to watch on a bigger screen anyways :)

-Eirik

Wonder why.

Well, thankfully it works just fine on YouTube app for TV (smart TVs, apple TV and PlayStation 4). :)

advertising capabilities ;)

Very impressed, very well done despite you knew the stuff or not :beer:

Does anyone know how are the broadcasting rights and whether any national broadcasters are going to show this fuckin' shit in their respective countries :peace:

https://adblockplus.org shut it down

You can use ads on mobile too, I guess?

was it approved by the band ?They used  original music

I would think it'd have to be, they played loads of songs and clips from their videos. The timing of this release is suspiciously convenient with the reunion and all. I'd say Marc Canter might have had a guess that the reunion was gonna happen

or buckethead, brain on bucket (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La5KV45PqcE) and josh on bucket (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68W6CiZbVnA)

BBC has rights to broadcast the songs... it was suppose to be a Slash piece but they turned it into a GNR once the reunion was obvious, MArc Canter said it on the other forum. I enjoyed it.!  :beer:

yeah me too   :)

yes, but not in such big amount as at PC/bigger screens with broadband connection.

This BBC work on GnR was very good!! Id like it a lot!!!!!

The Canter videos from early days are gold for me.

This is just the begining i think.... waitin for more!!

Ty

Amazing

 :love:

Never heard the thing about Axl believing the spirit of a crow lived inside SLash.  ???

Finished it. It was really good. I had heard or read about most of the things they mentioned and said.

Some of those clips were obviously from Canter, and they were great to see. I would love to see more. A lot more. I never heard about the crow thing. I think that's fucking stupid and not possible.

It's just a silly thing. It is impossible for that to be even remotely true in any way. Just some supersitious stuff with someone being "technically" dead briefly. What I found the most interesting was the Izzy stuff, which I knew about it was just interesting to hear it from a different angle.

Matt's comments were very interesting and amusing. He and Axl clearly don't see eye to eye still. Steven seemed good.

Assuming that is accurate it's a miracle that the band managed to create Albums and tour for as long as they did. 4 guys that are train wreck alcoholics and junkies and the other under delusions that verge on insanity.

I would take anything that Zutgaut guy said with a grain of salt. 
IMO he really crossed the line with some of the stuff he said.
People like him twist people's words.

Yeah sounds like some crazy stuff. He does and did in the show seem credible.

Seems like a lot of this was filmed summer 2015.

Just watched it. Thought it was really good. Nice to see snippets of shows I had never seen before. The crow thing was weird.. How can Tom Z believe that is Axl perception of Slash's "death"? Has Axl said something about these things in an interview or something? I must have missed out on that.

-Eirik

I am pretty sure that Zutgaut made this up or totally misinterpreted something Axl said.
The things people say when talking about famous people with whom they have no current contact never ceases to amaze me.  And not in a good way  :no:

Do you think this story is so far fetched given Axl's interest in the supernatural?

I mean, he had Yoda as a spiritual guide, giving him advice about what people to trust. He believed (believes?) in past lives.


I'm not judging him on this. It's not anything I believe in, but I don't have a problem with people having this sort of interest.

I have studied metaphysical subjects for many years with some of the best teachers in the world. 
Most people don't really understand it and they twist and misquote things I say all the time. 

That Sharon person did not have a lot of integrity.  People like her give truly good spiritual teachers a bad name.
Zutgaut does not strike me as someone who can grasp deep spiritual truths.
He would have never said some of the things he said if he did.

But this isn't about deep spiritual truths, it's about what Axl might believe, or believed.

Even though Sharon didn't have a lot of integrity, she was still a close friend of Axl and it seemed like he had belief in her.

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

That's fair enough.  I just think he really didn't understand what Axl was all about and put his own spin and interpretation on certain events.

Yeah we can only speculate as to how Zutaut came to know about different things. It could have been someone else telling him Axl said so and so, twisting it. It could be a misinterpretation of something Axl said directly to him or it could be something Axl genuinely believed.

I wonder though, if some of the interviews in the documentary would have been different if they had been conducted 6 months later, and they had known Axl, Slash and Duff was back together. Probably.

Matt would probably have dialed back a bit..  :hihi:

Yeah I thought that Matt came across as a bit of arsehole with his snide attitude at times, something that he might come to regret...

I doubt it. From what I read about him in Duff's latest book he would like to be the man in charge.

Also, about the whole Guns N Roses name. (Im too lazy to find go and find it)

Apparently some Exec came up with the idea to have Slash and Duff resign to the name GNR, and Axl would keep it. However something was said that Axl would keep  the name but lose power to make decisions about Guns N Roses as a business company. I guess that means some execs would then decide on GNR stuff.

The exec that came up with the idea said he came up with it because he never thought Axl would ever agree with it, as a way to keep the band together.

However Axl agreed, the name was his, but in keeping the name he lost control of GNR.

Maybe that's what came back to haunt him years later when the Execs said Chinese Democracy was not good, and to keep working on it.

It finally explains stuff for me, it explains why Axl appeared to be such a prisoner.

I'm thinking that refers to the partnership which originally was "Guns N' Roses Music".

Duff and Slash, along with Axl, still had a say in how the back catalog would be used. So, Axl got the name, but really only the name, not complete control of the music.

That's the thing. Its like selling your soul to the devil  :hihi:

I'm sure Jarmo is thrilled that the name discussion is on again...  :hihi:

Well, I think discussions coming up again and again are healthy. Im sure if you've been here since day one you've heard it all and you get bored at reading  the same thing over and over again. But Ive been here for a while, and Ive read a lot. Im not obsessive (although at a certain moment I was) and I had never really and fully understood the name thing.
Now its clear. Everybody in the band  lost on the name thing, Axl included.

Axl fucked Slash and Duff out of the name and now he holds ALL THE CARDS in any future releases...

awesome.

Maybe. Axl himself said it was "no short of a miracle" to have the album released.

But it doesn't explain everything in the making of Chinese Democracy, because the album could be released with almost the same songs in 2002, 2004 and at the very least 2006. I just don't know if they kept adding stuff because they had extra time or they had extra time because they kept adding stuff.

The album was done pre-02. The company returned the cd and brougth in rtb, who wanted it re-recorded. So they did.



Tommy about it;


  [Axl] got zero fucking help from anyone outside the band to fucking do it. You know, it just got stupider and stupider as the record company kept throwing bad A&R guys [at us], or producers like Roy Thomas Baker who, you know, he made things sound better, but that wasn't' what we needed. We needed someone to help us fucking sow it up, and he came in fucking re-recorded everything five fucking times with every amp in the country. I just don't think that was something that was really important to making a record, that could have been taken care of in the mix.

My summation of the whole thing is that Interscope, when they took over Geffen, really led Axl to believe that Jimmy Iovine would be involved, and would help get this record done and make it happen. But basically what he did was let it completely fall apart. Then he had this great idea to bring in [producer] Roy Thomas Baker to make it sound better. All he did was re-record everything three or four different times, trying to make it sound like something it didn?t need to sound like, and spend $10 million in the process. My two cents on the whole thing is that I really think Jimmy Iovine fucked the whole thing up.


Most of the songs that are on the record now were done 10 fucking years ago. But all the talking heads in the mix were saying, ?Make ?em sound better! Make ?em sound better!? So we kept redoing this and that. And it ended up coming back down to the same fucking songs that they were 10 years ago, except that now they were a super-dense mishmash of a bunch of instrumentation.



tldr: RTB wrecked the record

imo they should have just released it in 01-02 and gone on with buckethead and fortus as guitarists.

Great Post Norway

 :beer:

Yeah, I know, but before that, in 1999 they also had a near-complete album with a streamlined lineup and Brian May as a guest. Maybe it wasn't what Axl wanted, or maybe it got rejected also.

Then, RTB worked for some time, but that was in early 2000s. In 2006 they already had Andy Wallace, but that still wasn't enough and they added Caram Constanzo to produce it with Axl and they added Bumblefoot and Frank so it was done by early 2007, but it was released only in Nov. 2008.

My point is: they could have released it a lot of times with different line-ups, arrangements, production... And I don't know if it was just because they had extra time.

Yeah I remember when Thomas Baker came in and re did it all. I was thinking that was odd. I've always felt like it was done and in the bag fall 2002 or so. Wasn't it titled 2000 Intentions at one point for a 2000 release?

It is just mind blowing that in 15+ years of this band we've gotten 15 official songs (CD, Oh My God)

That sucks.

very interesting observation woody. that had never occured to me before. its interesting, you have some people saying it took so long to make because of the talking heads in the record company, and then, was it frank? saying that things take a long time because axl is a perfectionist. last but not least, you have people on the forums arguing eternally over how it went down. there never seem to be any straight answers with this band.

Yes I remember that as well. I think when Baker came in that was during the time of nothing happening 2003-2005. Very lean years.... 

Baker came in 2000 and stayed until 2002.

Which might explain how when played live during those lean years, how the songs varied, all they were doing was playing the latest version, the way it was at that moment in time being laid down for the album.

Always felt that that was the case.

I also get the feeling that the band experimented some new arrangements in rehearsals for the tour and then it would be later added to the recordings. Just like Ron's fretless and Frank straightfoward drums in Chinese.

The band played The Blues in 2006 with the ending kinda like they did in 2002 (Richard's solo was added between the European dates and the NA tour), but in 2007 Richard played the lead starting from the break ("what this means to me...") just like it would appear in the final record.

Doug was fired in 01 or 02 afaik.

Axl:

  People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38


here is some buckethead-moments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhwtw6dfWIo), listen to the MM-solo at 18:52 : ok:

I get that the clowns probably delayed them some for sure... but at some point it is just dumb.

For me, I really really thought 2004 was the year for CD. Then I was so so so certain that 2006 was the year. It was just crazy.

Any way you slice it up it ultimately was too long for an album to come out. Period.

It was 10 solid years from the album's actual conception to the release. That's fucking insane. It will forever be linked to that "decade" or "15" years as some people put it. That kills the vibe.

Cause peopel are like "man this took 10 years to make"? Casual fans think this.

For me... for what the album is.. its as good as either UYI album I think. or really close. Considering the length of time they spent on it.. it should of blown away AFD.

It just didn't.

Still a very good album.

In 2016, I think most people are very much over the amount of time it took ?GN?R" to produce Chinese Democracy.
They simply just don?t like the songs that ended up on it.
Wouldn?t matter if it took 17 years, or 15 minutes.

If you never correct the record, or can't even be bothered to speak in the first place, you have little to no credibility complaining down the line that people speculated in directions you don't feel are fair or accurate.

The speculation is the result of your silence.  Ending the latter cuts down on the former.

Very cool

but, the video was removed

Never said anything about 2016....

I was pointing out that even though it appears management delayed the process it isn't an excuse. How complicated it could be? The longer he went on without releasing the more pressure and high expectations got.

If this album dropped in 2002 and is close to what it ended up being people are softer on it. A lot of people attach the time it took to make it with how good it is. If it comes out in 2002, like it should have we're talking about a fantastic album. As a fan you don't like to wait a really long time with something to happen.

1 album in 16+ years as a band isn't good enough and management isn't to blame for all of that.

It was a ludicrous amount of time, regardless of who?s at fault, no question.

I guess my point was basically refuting your notion that if it had been released in 2002, that we?d be talking about a fantastic album.
I don?t believe that to be the case at all.

Sure, people wouldn?t have been harping on the time factor as much, or they may be softer on it as you suggest.
But in the end, I don?t believe it has much bearing on people?s opinion of the music.

I liked Street of Dreams in 2008, and I like it in 2016.
When Shackler?s Revenge leaked back in ?07 or ?08, I was hoping it was fake, or a joke, and wouldn?t be included on Chinese.
I would cringe if I heard it today, or if I heard in back in 2002 just the same.

I just can't agree with you man.

In general people tie what Chinese Democracy is to the length it took to release it.

That is just how it is. Things didn't come together until that new years show early 2001. They had been recording stuff since 1998ish or so though.

If you think the album's perception isn't linked to its long process and delays then you are wrong.

I enjoyed this doc. One complaint I have is that Dizzy seems to be consciously omitted. VH1 Behind The Music did the same thing. You never hear or see his name and barely see his face.

I just don't get that. Why not even mention an official band member of 20 years who plays on the majority of the studio albums?

I'm assuming he is the 6th motorcycle skeleton, but c'mon.

no, not really. the primary issue they have is, that it has no "original members" besides Axl. indeed it's not the greatest album of all times, but still, all the guys playing on it deserve a HUGE credit. but most people just go like "meh, this is not GNR, Axel is fat, and also both Slash and the guy with tophat aren't there, so fuck that crap".

The biggest problem is that Axl did everything in his power to ensure he'd have the name "Guns N' Roses"... for someone that did all he did to get it... he's done very little with it

He tried so hard to be relevant that in the end... the album wasn't that relevant. Look man I like the album, I'm just saying its a shame it took so long

And we may never hear what else was done... this reunion is going to back catalog other things.

They aren't going to release CDII I don't think now. Not for awhile

same feeling here :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcgkQMSL1is

Here it is again.

Ok, here is the quote

"basically Axl issued an ultimatum, that whole concept was dreamed up by peter paterno, who was still the band's attorney and it was written in a way where no one ever thought the band would break up, because if the band broke up axl would keep the name but axl would lose his say so on the board of directors of original gnr incorporated".

perhaps he could clear some things up by speaking about them. if you had to guess, why do you think he prefers the silent bit so much? any possible good reason for it? any pros?

reasons why he wanted the name, whether or not he should have ended up with it, what caused cds delay, why cd didnt catch on, its all debatable. its been debated to death though. its interesting that nobody seems to bite on this stuff anymore.

it used to drive people crazy, and not really that long ago. now nobody even flinches. i dont agree with a lot of what you say, but im not gonna have the same debate for the 1,000,000th time again, and nobody else seems to want to either, so live it up.  :)

Just saw it... lots of interesting stories that remember i read back in the 90s.. and some new stuff to... But i think (for the most of it) everyone got a fair (equal)  treatment..

I really liked this doc

I like the comments on Axl getting the name but then having to give up all power to the parntership in regards to the entity of gnr. 

Makes a lot of sense where a lot of the lawsuits came from

RJ,  if there was a like button.. I'd press it 100 times for this.

I don't see many pros.  What I do see are tons of cons.

Just finished watching it, it was pretty well done.  I would have not had the weird girl or any of the shitty special effects in certain parts, it just screamed low budget/unauthorized.  It was a strange thing to include considering the actual film itself is well done and doesn't scream low budget at all.  I enjoyed the film and got to see some footage I haven't seen in a while or in some cases ever.

Thanks. Plan on watching this later when I have time.

im interested to see your pro and con list, if you have one and are willing to share. or anyone's really. id make one myself but im hungover as all hell from my night in fukuoka. i cant think straight, dont know why im even posting right now.

and thanks jaeball! i agree with a lot of the things youve said recently.

I don't think he is... I'm pretty sure the skeletons were Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, and Matt.

Dizzy seems to get very little respect... even during the HOF induction by Green Day, they had something to say nice about everyone, but Dizzy got 'You play a mean keyboard... keep it up'

I must have looked away for a minute the first time Michael Monroe was introduced and his name was flashed on the screen... the first time I saw him I was trying to figure out who it was and my first guess was one of the strippers from the 80's with really bad plastic surgery.