Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I know it is really early and it isn't that important just yet... so relax some of you that will be overly critical.

What I'm talking of specifically is later on this year or even next year wouldn't it be cool to get to hear demos or just anything from Gn'R from the 1994-97 era? I would just love to hear this stuff. We know that some of the stuff Slash converted into Slash's Snakepit from 1994 work that he had been doing. After TSI released in late 93, we just got the 1 cover song of the Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil". I would just love to know what else was recorded or demod out during this time.

From what I've read over the years there's substantial stuff done. A few songs and mostly just demos and riffs. They could do a 4 disc box set of this stuff and price it at like 50 bucks. I'd pay that!

What are your thoughts on this? We probably all would love all the unreleased stuff, but with the older guys getting back with Axl, I think interest in the actual older days would be at a premium. You just know there's some stuff floating that has been forgotten about or never made it. Maybe there's not even enough stuff for a 4 disc thing and I'm overthinking this? Who knows.

Very interesting to think about. If they played this right, they could back catalog anything on DVD they did... like old recording sessions etc...

I don't see that as very realistic, but of course I'd pay 50 bucks to hear whatever unheard demos of Guns n' Roses from any era.

I wouldn't say you are so much overthinking this as overestimating it.  I think diehards like us will always love anything we can get our hands on.

I just don't know how much viable stuff there really is.  I certainly think there are next to no completed songs, and really very few vocals.

It's a shame that no one knows what is happening (except Axl) with the material of Chinese Democracy II and the remix album in the future.

I was under the impression that there wasn't much left in the vault from before the CD era. If I recall, there are a few old threads on the board listing what's known to be out there. A rarities collection with Shadow of Your Love, Heartbreak Hotel, Ain't Goin' Down, Just Another Sunday, Bring It Back Home, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Crash Diet, Whole Lotta Rosie and a few others would probably be a good idea though. Like a B-sides and rarities album.

A remix album at this point seems pointless.

CDII is another story. I'd love to see that.

I can see Axl wanting to get all CD material out there. A collectors edition with CD, CD 2 and the remix album would be very welcome. It wouldn't be marketed as GN'R next album, but rather a deluxe release.

Then, if Slash and Duff are on board writing new material, that could be marketed as GN'Rs 7th studio album.

It would make more sense when it comes to touring as well.

We talked about this a while ago: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=66491.0




/jarmo

opps. please merge that with this?

This would be awesome. Just call Izzy and Mike Clink and they're going platinum!


Edit: Figured they were gonna rework them and rerecord right? Not just release as was?

probably nothing from 94-97.....bullshit on the Chinese era.....well documented that there are a lot of fully recorded songs with vocals etc....WELL documented....whether you are interested or not is up to you. Nobody has any idea as to what we will get in the future as a Gnr release or how any of the material worked on, recorded, etc between 1994 and 2015 will be used. Game changed this month!  :hihi:

Settle down over there.  I was only talking about post-UYI but pre-CD.

A disturbingly high segment of our fanbase thinks there is all this gold from those years.  Talk of Zakk Wylde and the like.

I don't think there is one word of vocals on any of those unfocused jam sessions.  I doubt there is even an instrumental song.

probably not unless Axl had some piano tune demos with vocals recorded...TIL, or other stuff.

Didn't Matt Sorum say there were 7 songs from the 94-97 era that were fully recorded?

"We are working on rock songs that last only 4 minutes. We already did 7 songs and we will write 7 others. [...] It will be a single album with 10 or 12 songs." (Matt, 09/23/96)

"There will be a new Guns N' Roses 12 song minimum recording with three original "B" sides." (Axl, MTV fax, 10/30/96)

"The record will be all up-tempo rock songs ("No ballads," McKagan said firmly) and it will be just 12 songs, with a release planned for next spring." (Duff, Addicted to Noise, 08/30/96)

"I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of [Slash] were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith's Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out." (Axl, press release, 08/14/02)

 :beer:

^ Cool stuff. Wonder if this hardrock album would sit well in the '97 market, tho. Back then new metal was really a thing.

I believe several songs (like OMG and TIL) would fit in both eras.

I want that right now!!! Damn!. I cant imagine that voice. Powerfull.

This is the ideal time to put out the definitive GNR '85-'95/6/7' boxset.

It could include the '85 demo, the 'Hellhouse demos' (86/87?) all of the Sound City '86 preproduction demos and the '86 Pasha sessions straight from the master tapes.

It could also include anything from that era we don't even know about.

As far as UYI goes, we have a few tidbits, but who knows what else they have lying around ?

And then there's the Dvd/Blu-Ray part, which could include stuff from the planned 'The Perfect Crime' documentary, or even the holy grail : all 4 Forum '91 shows !

If we could have any of the above, why on earth would anyone want a ChiDem remix album ???

you are actually right, remixes are meh. altough the holy grail would still be the original ChiDem recordings and/or Vegas 2001 DVD ;)

I was talking about the holy grail of GNR recordings  ;D

For some GNR fans, that would be the alt takes or demo versions of the Chinese Democracy songs.

You are clear such a Chinese Democracy mark lol.

Yeah I'm sure it would be for some fans yes. The majority... a large vast majority of the Gn'R fanbase wants 85-96 Gn'R stuff. Point blank period.

To think anything else is just crazy. Sure we want the CD II, and the 98-2014 stuff, but we all want the older stuff first. With the original, first... famous.. legendary band that MADE us all LOVE Guns N' Roses in the first place.

Lets be real here. We all love Guns N' Roses from that first original era. It is safe to say the large majority do anyways.

probably, but listening to 30 years old songs again and again gets boring quite soon, no matter how great they are. any new material (and with "new" I mean not only unheard ChiDem era recordings or somewhat important gig tapes, but of course also some unheard recordings from the old era, like Rapidfire, Holywood Rose etc) would be much much better. of course, the vast majority of casual fans wants just their 5 favourite songs and doesn't care about anything else, it's logical. but as a more dedicated fan, I'm not really interested in these.

Bring on the remix of a record released nearly a decade ago. Those hundreds of DAT tapes of demos done in '94-97? Screw that, man. This is the digital age. The rapper age. We need a remix.

You know.. that EDM is bigger than rap now right?

Has anyone else lost at least a little of their fire to hear the CD II material since Slash and Duff came back?

Don't get me wrong.  If it leaked 5 minutes from now, I'd download it.  If it went on sale next week, I'd pre-order it.

I'm just sort of thinking out loud here though.  CD II was already going to be material from dudes long, long gone.  But it was at least going to be what the latest band would be touring behind (theoretically).

But as removed as the latest band was going to be to the material on that album, the current incarnation of Slash and Duff have literally no connection.  And if they, god willing, do anything new...it ain't gonna sound like CD type stuff.

Right?

No.
It's new GN'R material.




/jarmo

But of a band 3 incarnations back now.  I'd still want to hear it, as I already said.

On the other hand, maybe if you could get Slash and Duff on there somehow, maybe the label is more interested.

Perhaps. But it's still a GN'R record. :)
So yeah, my level of interest in hearing it hasn't changed.



/jarmo

Yeah it would be great to hear anything new. For me, I'm much more interested in pre 1996  Guns N' Roses.

Always have been really more interested. The long wait for CD really burned me out. As good as CD is... I just don't want anything from that post 1998 era relaly. Not yet. Not until other stuff is put out.

I'm interested in the sense that I don't really think any more original material is likely to ever come out, but if anything is going to, this is our best bet.

So, in that sense, bring it on.

This is to DX if they come out some time from now and say slash n duff are redoing chidem II would that perk your interest? obviously i have no idea what will happen but don't give up on it who knows what might happen. You certainly didn't think slash was coming back did ya?

Shit no. 

The point I was trying to get across is operating under the premise that Slash and Duff stay onboard past this tour, or whatever it is.

If that were the case, I'm not sure how jazzed I'd be to get a collection of songs Axl did with Buckethead and Robin, done 15 years ago now.  I'd be interested in the sense that I'd be interested in anything Axl did.  But yeah, if Slash and Duff were to decide to continue on with Axl, I'd be more interested if they were involved.

sometimes i think we get to involved in who wrote or made the songs. As long as we get to hear the songs thats what matters to me i don't care who initially wrote it or played on it because at this point we just want to be able to enjoy it

Anything we get at this point is going to have a cast of thousands feel.  Might as well make your peace with it.  I think we have.

Only way that's not the case is if the line-up that does this tour, is suddenly SO inspired by each other...they rush into a studio and crank something out from scratch.

Not terribly likely. 

A remix album does nothing for me period.

Whether its CD stuff... or if axl decided to do a remix of say Appetite.. it would still do nothing for me. I have never particularly liked any remixes from any artist to be honest,  I like the songs the way they are (old stuff) but thats just my personal taste, i'd probably rather see Axl do a cover of something epic and release it, i have always though Axl's covers were better then the originals.. as for CD2 and especially the remix, i am on the record as saying i have little to no interest in listening to it for a number of reasons. If they had of released it when the guys that recorded it were still in the band, it would have been slightly easier to swallow.. but im past caring. We have a new band, with 3 (minimum) out of the classic line up and if this current version of the band records something new and releases it, id be much much much more willing and eager to get my hands on it.

To answer your last question... if the current incarnation of guns does release something... i would think it would be far removed from ANYTHING to do with CD... and that can only be a good thing IMO.

How would you know??
How would anyone - besides those directly involved of course - know if a new album featuring Axl, Slash n' Duff was made up of brand new songs or do-overs of material not released on CD?  Rumor has it that Slash was somehow connected to one, two or more of the CD songs.

I don't know... i never said i did know..... that's why i said i "think".

its an opinion. Don't get your knickers in a knot over it man.  :-\

It's a forum.  I was joining the conversation.  My knickers are unknotted.

Sounds good.

In regards to any new music... if we get 2 new songs at vegas or Coachella, my gut feeling is they will be appetite style songs.. and fairly stripped rock songs... but like i said... i dont know... its all speculation. Cant wait to see what happens though.

I am unfamiliar with Slash and Duff's solo careers besides one or two Velvet Revolver songs.  IMO those didn't sound anything like "appetite style" songs.  Wouldn't you think that their styles have evolved beyond AFD and therefore so would anything that would be newly released?

Possible...

It would depend if they are going from scratch with a brand new idea... or whether they are going to pull something from around that era (appetite). The same i guess thats it possible that Duff and Slash could re-work a CD2 song.. its all possible in the world of GNR... I personally dont think "evolving" is the right word... whilst i agree with you that Slash and Duffs solo work bears little to no resemblence to appetite.. there stuff was a lot different to anything on CD as well.. so yeah... if there is 2 songs.. it could be anything...

I dont really know.. it's all part of the speculation but personally.. i hope its either a new idea, or something thats re-worked from the early days. But thats just me.

Yes, evolving wasn't the right word but hopefully everyone knew what I meant.

As I said, I'm not very familiar with their solo work but wasn't their VR stuff more of "Scott's style" (God rest his soul).  That's why I would think that any new material would lean more towards a current "Axl influence" style (whatever that may be) especially if it involves reworked unreleased CD material.

i never got the whole "i wont care as much/at all if so and so isnt on it". i just dont think about that sort of thing when im listening to music.

Its funny you bring that up.. i agree... Scotts style was all over VR and you could see the STP influence in the songs as well, again.. thats just my opinion or maybe an illusion just because of the front man involved.... but i guess thats what front men do i guess, they own the song pretty much.

what do u think the percentage chance is of 2 new songs in a couple months regardless of what era they may come from or something completely new?

Ha! I think you just threw him into culture shock   :hihi:

I think the chance is EXTREMELY high ... 85%?  I find this whole "rejoining" thing totally mind-boggling.  I would think since it is happening, and happening with Dizzy, Chris, Frank and Richard, it would have to be for something more than "celebrating" AFD.


  

What is a "clear Chinese Democracy Mark???"

I'm a GNR fan- of all years, AFD to whatever comes next.

oh, we all know emily can be "clear such a chinese democracy mark" sometimes.

to each his own, but to me the idea that people want demos of material that didnt make the cut back in the 80s over a new finished gnr album is mind boggling.

I honestly don't know about the style of a new song with those guys after all this time. The solo projects should not be taken as any indication, it's the sum of input and styles that make it sound like a band. Slash's hard rock, Duff's punk and Axl's epicness may indicate something like Coma (not talking about lenght, of course)? I don't know, but that excites me. :D

I'm terrified to say this (we've been there so many times, right?), but I agree 100%.

'a new finished gnr album' ?  Depends on what exactly you mean by that ...

12 brand new tracks written and recorded by Axl + Slash + Duff  + assorted filler in '15-'16 ?

12 unheard tracks written and recorded by Axl + assorted filler between '98-'15 ?

Thanks but no thanks, I'll take a '85-'95 boxset over that any day !

huge piles of those demos are already out there. you can download them all from me if you want to. I just don't provide silver-CDs, booklets and promotion. on the contrary, we have basically zero from ChiDem sessions, besides some older mixes of existing songs and almost nothing of unreleased material. but yeah, if you still want 68756th version of KOHD, I understand it's more interesting for ya ;)

I'm not only talking about bootlegged content.  Of course I have those. Everyone has those. I'll take new transfers from the master tapes though.

But there's bound to be stuff we don't even know about, especially from the UYI sessions... not to mention all the live stuff !

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very excited about a ChiDem outtakes release.  I'm very interested in anything Axl has to offer.  I'm just more interested in GNR.

Huh?

There are some pretty detailed accounts of what's left of the 85-96 GN'R stuff, and it's not much. I'm not sure where you get the idea that the vast majority of the GNR fanbase want something that doesn't exist, unless it's just casuals that don't realize that there isn't that much material left from that era.

- Most of the early songs from the AFD era found their way onto Illusions eventually
- Illusions pretty much cleared out the vault, with a couple of exceptions (Ain't Goin' Down, Crash Diet, etc.)
- There's no indication that between 94-96 the band completed any work beyond what we already know about. Matt mentions some stuff, but whether it was just song ideas/jams or not, who knows.
- Stuff like This I Love and Fall to Pieces came from that era - so what there was may have already been released anyway, either as VR stuff, solo Slash/Izzy stuff, or became part of CD and it's era
- No leaks of stuff from 85-96 after all these years would be a good indication that there isn't much

A good list:

http://www.newgnr.com/forum/index.php?topic=47829.0

At least we know there's stuff from the CD era out there. We have song titles, a couple of leaks (GD, CM), confirmations by people who heard stuff.

Point blank period, most of the GNR fanbase want either new material, or just want to hear the old songs and don't care about unreleased tracks. I don't think nearly as many as you suspect care about unreleased songs and demos from the 80s and 90s.

yup, exactly my idea!

Trust me, ask around, find out for yourself, outside of the msg board crowd, no one, and literally mean NO ONE (= zero people) is interested in unreleased ChiDem stuff.

They're not even interested in the RELEASED ChiDem stuff !!!

... that's why Greatest Hits compilation was released for such people, they might only know about half of those songs but hey, they consider themselves die-hard fans! that's awkward, sorry. such people have no idea what they want, most probably they just want their 5 favourite songs played on infinite loop and consider everything else crap.

Again, most people either want "new" material (and if it was CD era material with Slash in the band, they wouldn't know the difference) or just want to hear the old songs.

The only people interested in back catalog stuff is the board crowd period.

This.

It's why Billy Corgan was losing his shit about playing old Pumpkins stuff live. Every artist goes through it.

Strip it down to the basics...with all the buzz going around now, people are going to be interested if Gnr releases a song. They won't know when it was written, by whom, or likely who the hell is even playing on it. If Axl is singing and they can get Slash and Duff on it, radio stations will be salivating.  :drool:

I'm not talking a GH type of person.

I'm talking genuine long time fans.  People who own and know the back catalogue, and who've been to the shows.  People who are excited about the 'reunion'.

Nobody cares.

Sorry.

Honestly they could have Slash do what Ron did, add some finishing touches, and most people wouldn't know the difference. With a few exceptions most of CD sounded close enough to Illusions anyway (I've had friends who are casuals think TWAT was a UYI song). Not sure if Slash would want to, but you're spot on - people aren't reading the liner notes unless they're hardcore fans.

A Chinese Democracy reissue wouldn't be made to please the ones who only love the old albums. It's kinda obvious. You just assume people are stupid.





/jarmo

Wait, so only non-genuine fans want more CD era stuff?

Sorry but I've been a "genuine" fan since the 80s and you don't speak for me.

In general, the kinda people I described above think WE (the msg board crowd) are stupid.

I think a lot of issues arise in this discussion because Guns N' Roses have been broken up for like 20 years basically.

We finally get the old band back together, and people wouldn't want CD era stuff from a reunion. It just isn't what people want. Why would you want the old Gn'R to record and put out CD II stuff right away?

Wouldn't you want them to make and write their OWN stuff? or release OLDER stuff that we haven't heard that is out there? I don't get it.

I think this is why a lot of people get mad or get offended. The old band is back folks, and whether you guys like it or not... MOST of us would like the OLD band to release OLDer stuff

Did I say that ?

There's nothing wrong with wanting more CD era stuff, so do I.  My point is that, outside of the obsessive msg board crowd, NO ONE ELSE is interested.

What's up with this 'genuine fan' thing ?  You like a band or you don't, it's not a competition.  I have 5 million bootlegs, my buddy has 5, and he hates them (for their soundquality).  He's as much a fan as me.

There you go...

That's the bottom line.

Unlike you, I'm more into whatever is released by the band. Don't care how old or new it is. If the band puts it out because they want to, it's fine with me.

None of that "Oh no, that guy who's not in the band anymore plays guitar on the album so I don't want that" shit is an issue for me.


We already heard the cries for new music for years, now once again, those cries have been changed to certain conditions. :D



/jarmo

This was pretty inevitable.

Both the fact that people would be talking in terms of "thank god that misadventure is finally over"...as well as people taking that very personally and getting pissed about it.

I'm in the middle of that divide.  I appreciated what was done the past 15 years, but it was a placeholder for me.  While interested in the stuff they did during that time that has yet to come out, I would not exactly be taking hostages if it never did.

My advice would be to recognize that the bit in bold is going to be said by people, and you can't let it bother you.  You can't right every slight, real or perceived.  Insisting people give that era the same level of respect they did the classic band...well, you've been at that for 15 years.  How's it been going?

Its possible to see an opinion you disagree with go by, even if you disagree VEHEMENTLY, and see the futility of trying to fight it.  So you let it go.  If that's what they think, its what they think.   Your fresh new take is not going to bring them around.

You're right, it's said by people.

But I don't get people like you saying it in a place where you know people actually don't see it that way.
It's like you're trolling for reactions from those people with your digs at that particular era.

I suggest you stop.   : ok:




/jarmo

This point gets lost around here, often.

My personal opinion on why is that people aren't necessarily blind to that fact, but they want this place to be a firewall against having to face it and deal with it.

You become the bad guy, because you invaded the safe space.  

Why beat your head against the wall?

If you just let a comment pass, it dies.  Throwing a tantrum gets it discussed for an entire page, if not more.  (much like we are doing right here and now)

This is preferable to you?  Seems odd to me.

You seemed to imply it. And "genuine fan" was your term, not mine. Not sure why you're asking "what's up" with it now.

And again - outside of the boards I don't think anyone cares what era new material is from, be it 85-96 or 97-2014. They're going to shows to hear the hits and think it's cool that Axl and Slash are bros again and the band is "back together" (probably not even knowing who Izzy is). However, since there seems to be little to no unreleased material (other than demo versions of songs we already have) left from the 85-96, I think most people's preference would be unheard of/unknown songs.

At the end of the day, I'd love to get anything... as we've gotten 1 release in the 16 years since Live era. I don't count the GH as a actual release.

So anything would be great. I just would like to hear some unreleased stuff that is tucked away man. Mainly anything from 94-96

I'm not beating my head against anything. Just letting you know that I'm not gonna let you go on with your little digs.
Your disrespect towards that era and this site isn't gonna continue here. Something will change.

It's up to you, if you'll be proactive or if you want me to make that change.
Just a reminder. Now you know.  : ok:


Edited to add: Why not focus on how happy you supposedly are? No need for your negative dwelling on everything that didn't go according to your wishes in the past few decades. 


/jarmo

Not really. It's not about a safe space, people are free to have their own opinions.

However, you get people chirping about who is and isn't a genuine fan and holding on to grudges that even band members past and present have let go of... and it gets tiring.

Slash in the band or not, plenty of people are interested in seeing what's in the vault from the CD era. More so than the UYI era, if only because we already know there isn't much left in the way of unreleased material from the AFD/UYI era. Which should effectively end the conversation, but certain people feel the need to make this about which lineup is more popular, when it's not about that. If offered the choice between new material and nothing (or next to nothing), I'm taking new material.

Now, if there was any sort of hint that earlier material existed beyond the odd demo of existing stuff, that would be different.

As a side note, the Rapidfire demo release pretty much flopped, which should tell you how many people outside the diehards care about this stuff at all (but hey it's $5 on Amazon and still part of the history, so I'm not knocking on it, just making a point).

The problem is there is a large GNR fan base that just looks at them as what Appetite for Destruction & Lies produced and to a lesser extent UYI and they don't have the open mind for a band to grow in sound. Unfortunately for Guns N Roses history its not like they are Rush or Iron maiden who have a huge library to go by and unless you have an open mind when it comes to music I mean look at Metallica how many fans criticize them post BLACK album a band tries to grow in sound but because of initial success everybody wants the same sound because they know they like that and god forbid if you try a different sound it sucks because your close minded.

Your overall argument, I agree with.  Metallica is a good example of this in action.

But is GNR really apples to apples with Metallica?  Metallica absolutely tried to update their sound, but it was still the same band.

With GNR, I think there was more resistance to the new line-up than the new sound.  But I mean that in the sense that the new sound wasn't even given a chance, because so many checked out when they knew everyone but Axl was gone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that an "evolving sound", but one tried with Axl, Slash, and Duff (if not the entire line-up that finished up the UYI tour), might have worked for more people than CD did.

But overall, I do agree with your point that even then, there would be people that just wanted AFD II and then AFD III.  That's just fandom.

what new sound? My summary of it all:

Axl: where the fuck is duff and slash

Tommy comes in and is like 'sappening' and axl is like 'dude, sappening' and tommy is like 'sappling' and there was a sappling who grew into a giant weed. tommy started smoking the weed and richard came in, altho from the future, and said 'i am not bumping my nose into that' while looking at the weed. 'i bumped my nose on the door but i am not gonna bump my nose on the weed and just gonna stay on this side here'.

then chris came in but he couldn't say anything cause he wasn't plugged in, so it was dizzy who came in instead. he said 'where the fuck is duff and slash' while looking at the weed, who now seemed to only grow bigger and bigger. meanwhile, axl had created a carusell. it went round and round. when we looked at it go round first came a finch. then a buckethead. then a bumblefoot. then a dj from the 80's.

and then slash and duff came in and looked at both the weed and the carusell. and then we are like 'watnao'.

tldr:

rtb wrecked the record


edit:
the drummer is just a guy that is there

If Chinese democracy was done by lets say the UYI lineup would it have softened the blow to general fans under the premise that the album was exactly the same probably. But I still think once it became a different group of guys there were just alot of fans who had no intention of getting behind this new group which is unfortunate because in the end shouldn't it be about the music.

Agreed all around.

It may not be the exact same as classic GNR, but people talk as if it was so different that it might as well have been free form jazz.

That's a little much.

I think CD would?sounded more like Contraband. I just don?t see the UYI line up doing CD exactly the same way

I'm sure if slash had had his way back in the mid 90s the next album for GNR would have sounded something like slash's snakepits first album as thats what first came out and im sure that didn't help things from a GNR fan base because you probably had a bunch of fans who said oh that would have been the next gnr album and even when the first velvet revolver album came out that just added to it because those albums sounded more along the lines of UYI and then you get ChiDem and the middle of the road GNR fan is completely dissatisfied because of that and animosity towards the new gnr group grows larger.

I mean its crazy when i read the comments by people out there in regards to any gnr news outside of fan boards where people are just killing axl like he is old, fat can't sing anymore.

Youtube is not his friend on that point.  Or ours, who know some of them are the worst of the worst and not indicative of every performance lately.

I've responded to some friends that have sent me truly bad clips with clips from Vegas 2014, which I thought were awesome.

The real ball buster is how awesome he is on 'Prostitute', which we diehards know is in an incredibly hard song to sing live and how much he killed it that night. But, unfortunately, no one knows the song.

It's very frustrating, I find.

No, you take the CD songs, same lyrics and same notes. If you put the UYI line up to play those songs you get a completly different sound. If on top of that you change some lyrics  a some notes. Then you get a whole other kind of album. Neither Snakepit nor the CD album as we know it.

I think you're missing the point. The hypothetical was meant to demonstrate that if it sounded exactly alike, more fans would have been on board.  I think its understood all around that had UYI lineup played those songs, it would have been different.

Look how many fans are hooked on the whole if only izzy and steven were involved i mean for gods sakes you got Axl n Slash back together just goes to show in the GNR world there is no comlete satisfaction. I am sure there is a very small contingent that would still like the new guys like tommy, ron or dj still around.

If you subtract a couple of songs (Shackler's Revenge, Scraped, Better) it's almost UYI III honestly.

They were already doing the sampling on UYI (Civil War progresses to Madagascar)
There Was A Time, Street of Dreams, This I Love fit in well enough with Estranged and November Rain
Even I.R.S. and If The World aren't so out of place (If The World's vibe has always reminded me of the Flamenco guitar part at the end of Double Talkin' Jive)
CD itself is just a hard rock song, if you take out the intro effects etc. it's not that far off either.

Do you think it is less likely we will ever see more materials from  the ChiDem vault at this point?

I think you will why sit on so much material doesn't make sense. Worst case scenario after Axl has passed away then i bet anything that was never released will get released barring something in Axls will that says not too.

Footsoldier, nobody knows what is going to happen to any of that material....the house of cards has come down and the options for using that material are endless. Just because the Chinese Democracy era is over doesn't mean all those ideas and lyrics and riffs are going to be lost. Seriously, think about it....too much hard work went in to those sessions to be buried. The material is recorded, paid for and there. How it is ultimately used is anybody's guess.

and, for the record, the Gnr back catalog extends from 1985 to 2015...simple fact. :-*

I'm an unconditional fan- I'm interested in any lineup assembled, and any release from any era.

If I haven't heard it before- it's new.

If your going to go with any back catalog stuff id love to hear a studio version of crash diet i think that would make just about any gnr fan drool.

favorite post of all time.

best case scenario: slash and duff smoke the weed!

and thanks for clearing all that up kyrie.

Lots os people here are missing the point that Axl and I suppose Dizzy, Richard, Frank and Pitman are still in the band. Why would they discard all their previous work?

Then again, there's a reason Axl didn't release any new material from that era in all those years since Chinese came out. Not sure what that was, but maybe if he didnt feel confident enough (talking about music only, not about label or legal issues), Slash and Duff could help it to come out eventually with their own ideas and newly written songs in addition.

Axl said already in the online chats that it was just something outside GNR, or something like that. I don't believe it got past the demo.

Oh I don't think they would do it just purely dreaming because a studio version of it would probably be awesome

correct. if I were in trolling mood, I'd pick some strong track off ChiDem, for example the title track; cropped the unneccessary ambient intro, so it begins right with the guitar riffs; changed ID3 tags to something like "Guns N' Roses - yet unreleased new track with Slash on guitar!" and sent it to GNR "fans". I'm pretty sure they'd piss themselves like an excited dog.

Nothing wrong with her(or anyone) being a "Chinese Democracy mark".  While I've been a fan since 87 I am in the minority of fans that would take the 2001 version of CD(and of course CD II) over a reunion any day of the week. A reunion is certainly great but there are people still interested in that era of the band.

I'd consider the Beavan sessions to be the "holy grail" and I don't consider myself "crazy" for wanting to hear it.


Not me. If anything, it's increased my desire to hear it. I realize how easy it would be to move on from that material with a reunion underway if they wanted to. I'd like it as close to its original "vision" as possible but at this point I'll take it even if Pee Wee Herman is on it.

Yeah I also believe the chances of it being released might have increased just due to the label wanting to capitalize somehow on this buzz. In the least I'd assume a new GH/Best of is in the pipeline for 2016.


Same here. I have not paid any attention to his past few solo releases. Not a fan of Myles at all. Other than VR the last thing from Slash I bothered with was the one where he had different singers on each track and I was only interested in that for the Cornell track.



Absolutely. Something can be released and it not even have to be promoted as CD related even if CD era members like Bucket and Finck are still on it.


Outside of the "obsessive msg board crowd", very few know of its existence. Joe and Jill Blow aren't talking about wanting to hear Soul Monster or Atlas Shrugged.  Give it a release date or throw it on Itunes tomorrow and I can assure you they'll be all over it like flies on shit. You telling me that with this reunion being the big music story of 2016 that no one is going to care if one of those songs come out?

Absolutely.  A shame.

Yes I do.

yes you do what? Any new Gnr song will garner BIG TIME attention right now....I do think the song needs Slash on it though.

Yes, I do believe all anyone (outside of the obsessive people like us) cares about from now on is Axl, Slash and Duff and anything they are up to.

Again, NO ONE in the general public will give a flying fuck about anything '98-'14 from now on.

Should a song from that era turn up now, it will be a curiosity at best...  Or a laughing stock !

If anything it?s a fact that Guns N? Roses spent an extraordinary amount of time recording ?Chinese Democracy.? :hihi: ::)


Nobody did with AFD either.

You want gnr to be more of a popband than a rockband? If the music is rocking...

I have no idea what you're trying to say...

Nah I disagree with you. Yeah it is the same band. Under name only really.

In Gn'R's instance it is very delicate. NOTHING happened with this band from 1996 to 2001. Hell they didn't even perform in any way during this time. First shows were at the very beginning of 2001.

It really is divided up into 2 parts here. There's Slash era stuff, and post Slash. That is how it really is. After Slash left Duff and Matt followed soon after. So it was restarting over in a lot of ways.

I just hate it when people pull little attempt that it is the same band etc...

It is the same band name, with one original member. I really liked the new band man, but lets be real... back catalog stuff from 85-96 just isn't the same as the post 1996 stuff. Because of it being original guys together, and then Axl and a bunch of other dudes basically. It's very different.

Guns N' Roses will be to me always 2 bands. That isn't a bad thing or taking away from the Nu Gn'R but I don't consider 1 original member that threw a fit over the name in 1992 or whenever it was to be "the band".

As much as I love Axl, and Nu Gn'R and Chinese Democracy, I separate the 2 bands with great reasons and logic. I don't lump both eras together because they kept the band name and 1 member. Nope. If you do that is fine, but I think you're missing a lot of logic there.

Its futile though. 

They are as emotionally invested in insisting this has all been a straight line evolution, as you are quick to roll your eyes and tell them to get real.

No minds have been changed on this in 15 years.  It won't start now.

Frankly, I'm kind of hoping we can move past all that as over and done with.  Whether you were pro, or con. 

We've got a good outcome now.  Let's celebrate that amazing turn of events.

For the last 20 years this 'band' has fucked up almost everything they do.

A good outcome would be that, for once, they don't fuck up this reunion, and we get Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Matt.  Dizzy can come as well.  No one else is invited.

If THAT were to happen, THEN I would celebrate.

But then again, in what state would Axl appear ?

Oh the joy of being into GNR  ;D ...

How many times did you see GN'R perform live 1986-1993?

They only played Belgium once and my mother wouldn't let me go.  I was only 12.  She wouldn't even accompany me.  I will never forgive her.

Before you ask, I got into GNR through the YCBM video in June of '91.

So, exactly zero times. All the more reason to celebrate !

 : ok:

just as I already wrote:
huge attention and profits guaranteed.

just looked as music being dissed before it's released

don't lump me in with "they" hot shot. I understand it is 2 different eras and I am not emotionally "invested" in any particular era like you are. I personally prefer the Illusion era so quit making your knee jerk generic asshole comments.

 All I know is that there is a shit ton of stuff that is unreleased from all eras which is available to be worked on by ANYONE at anytime. Why? Because Universal/Geffen, and to an extent Axl, own it all. If it is unreleased and recorded under the Gnr banner/recording contract, it is fair game. Comprende? Or, is that concept too difficult for you to imagine? The back catalog of Guns N Roses extends from 1985 (actually 1986 when they signed with Geffen) to 2015. Fact.

Your thinking is way way too liberal for this.

It is technically 85-present for the back catalog. We all know that. In reality it isn't. It is 2 different bands.

Most of us want back catalog music and demos etc from the 85-96 era.

Lets face it people after 1996 there was nothing going on until 1998 or 1999 really. Duff and Matt were out in 97, Robin was hired in 97 or 98 so was Stinson. So nothing really started happening until 1998ish.

It is 2 eras. This is a special circumstance. This kinda thing doesn't happen. 1 band, they all leave. 1 person left.... it is a different band/era

believe that (in Roman Reigns' voice)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/242j6hj.jpg)

Yeah I actually don't like Roman Reigns at all...

HBK/Bret hart are my favorite wrestlers... lol. I was mocking him because he's lame as fuck.

Actually got to meet HBK during a barnes and noble book signing. got him to sign my heartbreak and triumph and his new book too at the same time. was great.

reserve your judgement...

mY OPINION iS bY aLL cOMMENT, rOMAN IS fUNNY, CHEERS

 ;)

lol... whatever dude

you still don't get it Thorn.... ::)

Actually timeline:

October 1996 - Slash leaves
January 1997 - Robin begins playing with the band, at the suggestion of Matt.
January-February 1997 - Oh My God is written by Dizzy and Paul Tobias as an instrumental. Duff and Matt show no interest in the material.
April 1997 - Matt is fired after he curses out Paul, Chris Vrenna joins right after. He and Dave Abrusezze work as a drum duo for a few weeks.
May/June 1997 - Josh Freese is hired.
August 1997 - Duff quits. Robin is signed officially to a two year contract, as is Josh.
September 1997 - Tommy joins
Early 1998 - Madagascar written and recorded. Axl tries to have This I Love be released on the soundtrack of What Dreams, May Come, but the musical director of that movie shows no interest.
August 1999 - Robin leaves. Brian May overdubs some songs in early December.
November 1999 - Oh My God is re-recorded with Dave Navarro and Gary Sunshine guesting on guitar and is released as a single and on the soundtrack of End of Days.
December 1999 - Josh leaves. Buckethead is hired Christmas 99.
January 2000 - Brain joins. Axl gives his RS interview. By this time, TWAT, Catcher, IRS, Maddy, This I Love, Chinese Democracy and Street of Dreams as well as Silkworms have been recorded. Oklahoma also exists as an instrument tal

I know the timeline lol. I was going off my memory and it was very very close. I was "exact" but very much correct.

The years of 1994-1996 interest me so so so much.

You just know there's music somewhere man.

I Remember This Week GNR/1994 With:

The Rolling Stones & SFTD In National Stadium Of Chile / 03 February

 :beer: :love: :drool: