Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What do you think. Is he out of the band or in?

Mr Thumby thinks you like to stir up shit. :hihi:

equally as much as the others (besides dj and bumble)

I think he is probably available if needed.   But things are quiet on the GNR front.

I say he's out and Duff is in.

to me, it seems he's in it Axl wants him in. I'm 99% sure guns n roses isn't giving up with there current lineup so I'm sure he will be in. Whenever he gets a call I'm guessing.

Wait... Who's Tommy... Isn't Mr Thumby on bass?

This thread is amusing ...

But I'll play along ... I think there's zero chance he is the bass player going forward.

Tommy is out and Duff in. Nice run Tommy. Hung with Axl for 15 years. 

I would like the band to release a official poster of the current line up

I think there would be two guitars and one bass just laying there agaisnt the wall

As it stands, I think there's a 50/50 chance of Tommy being on board. Depends on the merit of the reunion rumors.

Tommy himself seems to want to keep on going if Axl wants him to.

Question:  Who made the following statement?

"If they got [the modern lineup] together again and wanted me to play, of course I'd have to think about it."

Answer [spoiler alert]:  Tommy

Still unsure?  Ok, who made the following statement?

"Basically, I played my last gig in Las Vegas with them and had to come home and tend to that the best I could while the Replacements were kinda being offered up."

Answer [spoiler alert]:  Tommy

Tommy.  Is.  Out.

If you say so.

Remember when people were shooting down the "rumor" that they be and members were advised to take on any outside endeavors...Still sound like a rumor? I'm hoping for some new/unreleased material more than anything...

Eh shit. As much as I hate it, the chindem lineup is falling apart. No Tommy, no finck, no bucket, no Tobias, no brain, we are down to Frank, dizzy, Axl, Richard, and Chris. Looks like duff will be the new bass player with two new guitarist.


meh

When have they ever taken a picture of lone instruments as a band poster AND why would they release an official poster as long as the band is on hiatus and has not announced the lineup yet?

Makes.no.sense.

It all seems rather up in the air.  I think if for whatever reason some kind of reunion does not happen (it falls through in negotiations, it was never happening anyway, whatever) and Axl decides to carry on either touring or putting out the next album, then there's a reasonable chance Tommy will be called and asked to do it.  But I think it's more likely that if and when we ever see Guns N' Roses onstage again, Duff McKagen will be playing bass guitar. 

Honestly, the whole thing is so fucked up that I don't believe anything anyone says anymore. All I know is there is no release date for an album and no tour dates scheduled.  >:(

Jimmy doesn't like Gnr on "hiatus".

I know it doesn't make any sense...

Even though the band is on a hiatus, they have no problem selling merchandise..   

The business of Gun N Roses, does not stop or does ever go on a hiatus.   

Should they stop selling records during this hiatus?   Should they stop selling t-shirts?  Should they stop selling band posters??  Oh wait...

The question was very mythical.  I could of also asked...  If the current band was to appear on a late night talk show, who would appear?   

They are just what if questions.......

If you don't want to answer a what if question, there are plenty of other threads to prowl around in.....

If you do care to answer it.

If Guns was to put out a current Christmas card to all there loyal fans, with a team picture in it.   Who do you think would be in it?? 

Theoretically, if GNR were to put out a current Christmas card I think Santa would be on it. :D
 

Good.

At least it wouldn't be some safe, generic..

Happy Hollidays!!! 

Card

Its always.

Merry Christmas!

He's out. Duff is in, Slash is in & perhaps Richard, Frank, Dizzy & Chris. 2016 is on!  : ok:

I honestly don't see a hybrid lineup happening. I can see Duff joining full time, yes. But I can't see Slash rejoining the band full time unless it was a full reunion (whether of the AFD or UYI lineups).

Things happen, regardless of you seeing it or not.

Why dont you see a Hybrid lineup happening? I think its the bigger possibility out of all the scenarios at this point... but that's just going on rumor and innuendo.

I cant see an AFD line up touring... i could be wrong... but i really don't even see a set line up in the future... i could honestly see the lineups interchanging regularly with some past and current members playing separate shows. Just my opinion of course.

Long gone.

His words were not the words of a guy that was still in the mix.

He's done, but if a reunion tour goes down, he'll come out and jam a few tunes here and there. Guy's been a trooper the past decade and has my respect.

if the old GNR reunites.... where do I sign up for the wait of the New GNR reunion?

But to be fair, none of the members seem to be "in the mix".. To me, it doesn't seem to be any information flow out to the current members, probably because there's no information to give.

The band is on hiatus, seems like they shut down completely after Vegas.


Hopefully they'll fire up again soon.

 

I come and yell 'where's buckethead' with u.

Hahaha... plus 1 . This made me laugh.

Hahahaha

In Axl's ass, I assume.

 :rofl:

Another question will be if you guys show up wearing a Buckethead shirt. Will Axl call Mr Security man to kick you out?

 ;)

New GNR reunion starts now? haha

Yeah, if Tommy isnt out, then Axl must've done something to keep him in. On those interviews he almost sounded bitter, or disappointed. '' Of course I'd have to think about it''? this sounds like someone who got cheated on by his girlfriend but he still loves her, but of course, he'd have to think about it?to forgive her :-\

Just because it's silent right now it doesn't mean that he is out of the band. He didn't left in the band in 2003 too for example?

In, sort of.

Tommy = Top Secret

 8)

Tommy was pretty clearly talking about the band in the past tense.  And was speaking in a very looking back reflectively manner.

That's why I think its a stretch to say he's still in the fold.

That's true.
But also, that could change with short notice if his services were needed. Don't you think?



/jarmo

yep yep yep.....he said he was open to talking about it...guarantee you he would consider it. He would be an idiot not to. The Replacements are essentially done as well and his solo career will not carry the day financially.

Last I checked and let's be honest, there is no lineup right now. Speculation from people who really have little to no idea what could be going on.

Anything can change.  The question here is whether Tommy's in or out.  Based on his (past tense) comments, it's pretty clear he's out.  I guess you could say he's out, subject to considering being back in if asked.  ;D

I guess.  But he's also down 2 guitarists.  I have no clue who fills those slots, but I know it will not be DJ, Ron, Robin, or Bucket.

In or out of what? There is no band at this point in time! Ashba-Gone. Thal-Gone. Oh, Dizzy Reed and Pittman are still in the band, that makes for a great band!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Well, there are a lot of people in these fictitious lineups. Duff is back! Who said that? Did Duff or Axl say that? Slash is back because him and Axl are civil. Really?

A reunion is happening because promoters are offering money for it? Really? That has happened for YEARS!

The whole thing has become ridiculous.  :confused:

Thats sort of circular, chicken/egg thinking, there, though.

If there's nothing to join, then there can never be a band, ever...if, by your logic, they are only a band when all the spots are full.

Because you can't join something, to fill those spots, if that thing doesn't exist.

Yes...we have created: Inception!

What about this?

Anyone asked to join the band now is presumably going to ask if there is anything to these reunion rumors, right?

Would the fact they would even be looking for members to join suggest there is no reunion?  Or, is the fact they aren't looking (as far as we know) suggest that it is?

I don't know...we didn't hear about them "looking for replacements"..no pun intended... (though we assumed they were) till BBF walked on stage in NYC.

We knew about DJ AFTER he joined.

I don't recall hearing much, since Bucket left, about GnR doing "try outs".  And when we have heard about stuff, it's been WELL after the fact, and pretty much after the spot they auditioned for was already filled.

I don't think "no news" is an indication either way, on that particular front.

You are talking about hired musicians.   Why would they care?

"Hey so and so, would you like to join guns n roses for 20 date summe fall tour in 2016.   You can play guitar.  There is no expectation for you to continue on in the future or record any new music with us.  If there is work past these dates, we will let you know"

I think there are thousands of guitar players that would jump at this chance

There is a huge difference between being a hired band Berber, a touring band member and a full time band member

If there is plans for a future reunion,  but Axl wants to tour and play some shows prior to that.  He could easily hire some touring musicians.  

There would be no point hiring band members, only to have a reunion in the future.   That may happen after the reunion.  Or if the reunion goes good.  It won't happen at all

I would also offer up, if there is a planned reunion in, say, 2017...and Axl wants GnR to tour in 2016...there is NO EARTHLY WAY, IMHO, he can tell people about the future reunion plans.  Not promoters, not fans, not media...NOBODY (OK, except the inner circle/keeper of the secrets).  Because every single person is going to make decisions based on that future reunion plan.  IMHO, he'd sell less tickets, have less promoter interest, and the ONLY thing any media would want to discuss would be the future reunion plans. 

I don't buy for a second they could even be considering doing that....

If all of this ends up with two New guys on guitar: Harry Whatshisnameagain & Neil Neverheardofhim - The band will never rise to its former glory. Only the inclusion of two of the original and WELL KNOWN band members can make that happen.

I don't discount anything, anymore.

I agree to some extent, though...it's not the scenario (regardless of the dirt sheet rumors) I think most likely.

See, the assumption here is that "rising to it's former glory" is what Axl's all about, and what his intent is.

I'm not sure that's a safe assumption, reunion or no.

Yeah, but that has been the case for the past 15 years.  Few outside of us even entertain the motion they are on that level with replacement parts.  And even amongst us, its hardly universal.

If he rolls out 2 more randos, I assume its to do Appetite For Residency III : Still Hungry

And if that's the case, the two guys can be anyone, literally anyone.

Nah! Axl loves Bucket, there's a clip of a KFC hitting the LOndon O2 stage, King Dick didn't stamp on it  ;D

Definitely this ^^ good point.

Also, the music landscape and Industry as well as society is vastly different than  in the late 80's early 90's- there have been sweeping changes, and not for the better IMO.

The people longing for "former glory" may want to take this into consideration- people don't even listen to entire albums anymore.

I think it was at a certain moment, but not anymore.

Axl may not let getting back in the spotlight dominate his motivations, but I wouldn't totally discount them either.

I just want to make sure we don't get too entranced by how he's the artiest artist that was ever artful, and be so wrapped up in keeping that street cred going, that we could totally dismiss what is a natural human feeling.

This point here is extremely under-stated in todays music landscape.

From When Tommy Is Out Of GNR ?

I am wondering If Axl is battling with the feeling like no matter who plays in GNR that unless their name is Slash, Duff, Izzy or Steven that they will never get the credit they deserve no matter how great whatever material exists that has been made by the likes of buckethead, robin, tommy,Dj, Ron or whoever and anyone who has played with him has always talked highly of him and how he is as a person and if these guys aren't going to get over with the gnr fanbase and I understand a lot of the people on this board have enjoyed the band that's been out their recently but there is probably a large GNR fan base out their that just wants the old guys back playing music like they used to.

quite a run on sentence there...  :D

I get your point though.

Fortus-
?Music is all that matters to him. I?ve never met anyone with as much musical and artistic integrity as Axl Rose.?

Fortus adds, ?People talk about not doing stuff for money, but he really will not do something strictly for money.

He?s all about the music. It?s gotta be about the music. That?s why he doesn?t do interviews, because it?s not about the music.

And to him, that?s the only thing that matters. I think that?s incredibly admirable. Axl encompasses in a lot of ways what?s missing from rock ?n? roll now ? his mystique and he?s an enigma.?

Read More: Richard Fortus on Axl Rose: 'He's All About the Music' | http://loudwire.com/guns-n-roses-richard-fortus-axl-rose-all-about-music/?trackback=tsmclip

Seriously? How would Richard know better than the people of the Internet? Impossible!

 ;D


/jarmo

Again, I question whether the pursuit of fame, just for the sake of fame, is a "natural human feeling". It is for SOME PEOPLE.

I think he is far more concerned with producing material he's happy with, and doing what makes him happy.

SOME of that is about artistic integrity.  At LEAST as much, I think, is about preserving his sanity/mental health/well being.

Look, the guy seems to have made enough money to be comfortable...that doesn't seem to be his primary motivating factor based on what we've seen of his decisions..  He's eaten, and been eaten, by the fame monster...and given the decisions we've seen, that doesn't seem to be it, either.

What we HAVE seen is a bent toward perfectionism (and that might be the understatement of the year), a complete intolerance for what HE sees as bullshit (be that record label politics, media reporting, managerial crap, or what have you), and an unwillingness to compromise what he sees as his principals (agree with them or not), both artistic and personal, to "get back on top".

Fair?

So...I don't think it's people trying to further his "street cred" as the artsiest artist, ever.  I think it's just looking at what he's done, the decisions he's made, the band members he's added, and coming to the conclusion that there is no earthly way that money and fame are what's driving him. Or, if they are, he's the most self destructive mother fucker on the planet.  Given his stage presence, and the few media comments/interactions we've seen...he seems pretty happy, so that last bit seems unlikely.

And..Emily does bring up a good point:  The music industry has radically changed since 1992.  On all fronts.  I don't think, even if that was Axl's goal, that it would be possible for GnR to attain those heights, again.  Albums don't sell, and the pop princesses, for the moment, rule the roost.  I'd love to say that someday that might change, but....I see no indications that it is. In fact, if anything, "real" rock (and we've had that discussion before about what is real, and what is considered "rock" by the charts is very different, to me) slips further onto life support.

Good find!  And this perfectly jives with what we've seen of his decision making process, too.

Much more than a supposition that Axl is trying to climb the fame mountain, like it's his personal everest, and is just so inept at it that, not only is he failing to climb, but he occasionally takes toboggan rides, of his own making, back DOWN the slope.

If fame were his driving factor...he'd be mugging for every camera, talking to every reporter about...ok, IDK, some other band's prospects for a reunion and such, and making sure the band was in front of the public as often, and in as high a profile way, as possible. 

He specifically does NOT do things like that.

Does he want to be successful and appreciated? YES!

But that's a far cry from measuring that success by whether GnR is "the biggest band on the planet" again.  I just don't think he does that.

I was speaking more from a respect standpoint.

I don't think it inconceivable that, after awhile, it starts to wear on you when so many folks label what you have been doing a travesty.

Yeah, I don't think he cares about those opinions.  I think he pretty much discounts anyone who thinks/says that as someone who's opinion he doesn't value, because their head space and his are so wildly divergent in terms of what they/he thinks GnR should be.

As long as he's doing his thing, and he's happy...."fuck the haters" (in his opinion) is probably his morning meditation mantra.

 You know. I find it real funny when people say Axl is all about music. What music? 14 songs in 20 years? That?s not a great deal of music. He doesn?t care about money? When was any show for free? If Axl gets on stage he gets paid to be there. No problem with that. That is his job and he should get paid. But it is silly to deny there is money involved.

Travesty? yeah pretty much, calling GN?R something that in many people?s hearts never was. All there was in reality it?s just Axl and a bunch of guys performing mostly AFD and UYI songs. Some shows were really good, no doubt and yet close but not cigar.

So music is all that matters to Axl, and he has more musical and artistic integrity than anyone Richard has ever met, and that translates to one album in 24 years..

The only thing that GN?R seems to do these days is tour, which also happens to be the only way bands make money today.
So, yea, I?m sure Axl isn?t lacking in the artistic integrity department, but he clearly likes his money, too.
Like just about every other human being on the planet.
He?s not playing all these concerts for free, and he?s not playing all these songs solely for our personal enjoyment.

You answered your own question.
He puts out his music when he's ready to. Not when others think he should.

Tours also cost time and money.
Nice try.


The usual suspects who have a hard time giving Axl any credit are once again questioning him....
Is it that difficult to give him some credit? ???




/jarmo

If the music comes out when he is ready. Then he is not about music. He is about himself, it?s all about when he feels like it

But it's his music. His art.

If you think your work isn't done, it's not about you. It's about you thinking the work isn't done.  :hihi:




/jarmo

So, to be clear:

If you're working on something at work, and it doesn't meet your standards of quality, and you keep working on it til you feel that it's actually reflective of your ability...that's 100% selfish?

See, I call that taking pride in your work.  I don't think that's selfish, especially when you're trying to put out the best quality product for the person consuming/using it as you can.

I get it: His timetables are ridiculously stretched out.  And his idea of "ready" seems to be idealized to a point where you and I would consider that ridiculous,, too.

But..that's rather the point in all this.  He's not going to release something just to release it....just to make other people happy, or whatever.

He's also said that they didn't record all this stuff to keep it locked away and have no one ever hear it.

Did he not?

What's your point?



/jarmo

Keep in mind: Releasing and creating are two very different things.

He's RELEASED 24 tracks.  That's an indication of commercial productivity...not artistic productivity.

My wife was a pro photog before we had kids.  She'd take HUNDREDS of photos before she'd get one she liked.  Of the couple dozen she had that she liked, she might actually try to sell one or two.  

Painters will paint hundreds of canvases...and maybe try to sell a dozen of them.

If the ART is your focus...and not just being commercially prolific...yeah, I'd expect the volume of material to be less. Quality vs quantity.

You can argue that Axl's standards are almost impossibly high.....I think we're all there...but trying to say he does it all for $$ or fame?  Sorry, events just don't support that.

As for the tours: I honestly think those were about getting the OTHER band members paid, so they could continue to work together.  And maybe get the musical portions to "blend" for recording/creative purposes.

That he says a lot of things. 

Meaning that statement is to demonstrate his intent was purely commercial?

Nope.

He's an artist. Lots of artists intend to share their art with the world, for a variety of reasons (because it's cathartic, because it makes them happy to do that, and, yes, sometimes to pay the bills).

His intent is to share it. When he thinks it's ready, and worthy to be shared.

And I don't think I've ever said Axl doesn't want to pay the bills.  I've said that the $$ and fame are not his primary motivations.  

I'm not sure how that relates to my point, though.

 If he is not happy with his product he is assuming I won?t be happy either? He can?t asume how I might feel. And it comes down to he is not happy he won?t do it. So again it is not about music it is about Axl?own happiness and his own personal satisfaction more tan anything else.

And that somehow proves he doesn't have artistic integrity?

Didn't you compare releasing albums to refugees?
You also say a lot of things, many pretty stupid to be frank. :)



/jarmo

Because you can't highlight the ones you like and pretend you didn't hear the ones that haven't stood up.

Well, you can, but its a bit disingenuous, no?

Stay classy, big chief.

You stay classy.

Are you saying it's about you?  :hihi:

Seriously, wow.
That's some weird thinking.

How do you know he's not happy about his art?



Coming from you, I find it puzzling that you'd point out that somebody else talks a lot.
Hello pot....

Yes, I find those comments you made stupid. Sorry. :)

And again, the condescending comments. Only took you a few days.

Edited to add: I guess you can blame me for saying your comparison was stupid, and therefore I hurt your feelings....



/jarmo

It doesn't matter how YOU, the consumer, feel.  It's his work product, being related to his name.  It's his creation.  It's not done til he thinks it's done.  And until it's done, your (potential or actual) opinion as the consumer doesn't matter.

I write an app. You might very well be satisfied with that app were I to release it today.  But...I look at it and think: I can do better.  I think more people will like it with some refinement, polishing, bug squashing and feature development.

It's MY work product.    I get to decide when I think it's good enough for the light of day.  Not you. That's not what I would call "selfish".

Again, if this were YOU, and you didn't feel like the thing you were working on was ready...regardless of what your friends thought, your focus groups thought, whatever....do you just release it because they tell you to?

Most people would not, when given a choice (and not having the decision directly influenced by a superior).

I'm certainly not going to change your mind. But most reasonable folks don't consider THAT specific sentiment selfishness.  They consider it having a good work ethic.

Except...I'm not (and neither is anyone else).  Because no where did Axl say "It's all about the money, money, money".

He said his intent was to release the material at some point.  I don't think that contradicts anything that's been said, or pointed out, so far.

Taken to it most extreme, it will remain true as long as he's drawing breath on this planet.  So, he's still got around 50 years to play with.

For the record, I don't think he recorded all this stuff just to lock it away.  But I also can't make a real stirring argument that he's doing much to make that happen.

Witness Biggie, Elvis, and the Beatles.  They''re releasing stuff way past the time most of them have been drawing breath. So even that's not a limitation.

And I agree: He's not in a hurry to get that stuff out on shelves, so to speak.  I take that as further evidence that it's not about the money...because he has product that has intrinsic value that, you'd think, is in some semblance of a condition that it could be readied for release to "cash in" on it's value.  But, notice, he's never put a time table on releasing that material, either.

But he doesn't.  He has other things, as well, that have intrinsic value if released.  And yet...nada.

My assumption, based on my interpretation of past actions, history, etc is because he's not happy with the material, or the way the material would be released, as it is, now.  He doesn't think it's "ready" for release, for whatever reason.

Yours might be different. Fair enough. 

I also want to point out something (and I'm not pointing at you) many folks forget: There is a difference between saying things that you know not to be true (aka a lie) and things that turn out not to be true (being wrong).

I know, THIS bit gets repeated like a mantra, but its true: Shit happens. Things change.

I get it. I make my living in the arts myself(not comparing myself to Axl in any way) so can relate to not being happy with one?s own art, or not knowing when something is done and ready for release.

I don?t pretend to know if that?s the case with Axl or not.
I know a lot of people want to assume it is, myself included, because him living off his past accomplishments, while it is a right he?s earned, isn?t as sexy a story.

Regardless, I?m not calling his artistic integrity into question, nor do I believe he is in it solely for the money or fame.
I think he will take it all, and there?s nothing wrong with that.

To believe Axl is only in it for the music would be beyond naive in my opinion, regardless of what Richard thinks/says.

I think its just a thing you say.

Like how people say "no one cares about their players more than Coach <insert name here>."

Its not literal.  Just a figure of speech.

Again, I'm sure Axl wants to eat, and pay the bills.  I'm not saying money isn't a consideration AT ALL, or wouldn't be in different circumstances.

But, at this point, I don't think it's his primary one.  I think the guy has bank.  He ended up with a sweetheart contract that granted him carte blanche autonomy, to some extent (this bit is my assumption, fyi).  I think, since he's comfortable at this point, money isn't what gets him out of bed every morning. It's not what, IMHO, he uses to fuel his decision making process.  He's not thinking "how can I monetize these creations as quickly, and as fully, as possible".  He's primarily gauging the quality of the material vs his own (and again, you can argue they are almost impossibly high) standards as ready for release.  I think, in essence, that's what "all about the music" means.  If he were 25 again, young, with an empty belly?  That very well might change.

And I think fame?  I think he views that as a necessary evil that goes along with what he wants to do, potentially...and not the thing he aspires to get.

No, I?m saying when it comes to music or movies. What?s perfect and great for you it might not be the same for the rest of world. Sure an artist has to be happy with what they do. But seeking perfection is something else. Maybe there is no such thing as perfect. Or what is perfect for you it might not be for everyone else. Some people might think it is just good, other might think it is bad.

And this is something that Axl must know at this point. I really do not think Axl is seeking perfection. Nor I think Axl is about music. I?m not even sure if Axl himself ever said he was about music. There are many things other people have said about Axl.

All I know is this. The last time Axl spoke about another album he said he was looking into that regard very seriously. Those are a bunch a words that really don?t mean a whole lot.

Not to sound like the usual suspects  :hihi: But ?. (There's a But)


I do think Axl's got music integrity, and I do think in his own way he is all about the music. But was he ever ready with Chinese Democracy ? Nevermind, the cover and its print, or the business of it all, Im asking about the music aspect of Chinese Democracy, and this is why I ask:

 He said in an interview or web chat something like how he  wanted the lyrics for Sorry to be better written, or that he wished he had found better lyrics,  but he settled on those. He said it in a way that made me feel like he couldn't find the write lyrics for the whole song, or that he felt like some lyrics just didnt fit but he left them anyway.

Its understandable in a way to me because Ive done that too on a few songs I write,  when I feel like I just want to write and play a sing and have fun, but don't want to go through the hassle of making it perfect. Making music is sometimes very easy, but sometimes very hard. But when you have gone through years of choosing a handful of songs  to make an album, and you decide to include a song that you don't feel is finished in the sense that everything feels finished or right, It makes me wonder whether the 70 or 300 songs that he has on his vault are like Sorry. Songs that may appear finished like Sorry, but somewhat feel unfinished because there are things either in the lyrics or structures that do not feel right.

This is interesting to me because I like to write music and I know what it is to deal with inspiration. A lot of times you want to play and sing the whole day, but nothing you sing or play sounds cool and it is somewhat frustrating, and then at other times you write an entire song in 4 minutes and it comes out perfect.

But the attitude on Sorry was not the same as the one in COMA, Axl said in an interview or something how he struggled to find the lyrics for COMA, months went by and he was not able to find anything, but he was singing in the shower or something one day and it suddenly hit him, and everything fit, and he was able to finish the song. That to  me is very cool, because he didnt finish the song until it felt right, he didnt just write some random lyrics because the song needed to be finished, rather he finished the song because he found the perfect lyrics and melodies for the song.


So if he did have other finished songs on the vault, why not decide to include those and  keep Sorry for ''the second half of Chinese'', or until he felt it was finished. I wonder about that.

So..here's my question.  I'm gonna make up a completely fictitious scenario, and then you tell me if it's at least a reasonable consideration:

Axl says "We're going to seriously look at things in that regard" or whatever concerning the new album.

Almost everyone's contracts are up.  He's not worried about getting anyone a paycheck, etc.

Then, he goes on vacation for a couple months to recharge and maybe play around with some ideas.

He comes back he does start to consider the material.  We saw some evidence of that late last year and into early this year.  He's playing with mixing it, messing with arrangements, etc.  Using the pieces they've already recorded to start to assemble "stuff".

But, during that process, BBF pretty much leaves (or starts insinuating he's left).  And so that throws some uncertainty into the mix.

Then...somehow, someway....he and Slash start to talk. Maybe Duff acts as an intermediary. I don't know.  Whatever.  But they start to "rekindle".

And, at that point...Axl feels like maybe, just maybe, he can see a way clear to, literally, get the band back together.  I mean...he has no real committments from anyone, contracts are up...from that standpoint, the way is clear.  He and Slash are getting on, they're working through their issues (I'm totally imagining the two of them in a room with a couples councilor as I type this)...and...he's seriously giving consideration to something else.

He sort of abandons the old stuff, at that point, because...well, maybe there's this new thing.  And as it progresses, he keeps Tommy and DJ in the loop, so to speak, at least in terms of his plans for them, coming up.  And he keeps Frank, Richard, DJ, and Pittman likewise appraised of his plans for THEM.

And things continue to progress.

Now, here's the question:

Is the above scenario, fictitious as shit mind you, at least reasonable?

And, if it is...are we still supposed to give Axl shit for his comments in June of 2014?  Because shit changed direction?

I know, I know: We DON'T know. And Axl's track record isn't spotless, here.   So, at this point, it's fair to bring up.  But just keep in mind that, again, there is a difference between "words being meaningless" and shit changing.

In this case, we have SOME tenuous basis to think there might be a REASON what he said didn't turn out the way he might have thought, at the time. Maybe.

If, in 3 months, 6 months...next December...we're still having this conversation, then, yeah, I get it.  I even got it about 4 months back, before these rumors started up. But right now?  I think we're in a wait and see, at least for a bit, before we can come down too hard on him for that particular sentence.

From some of Axl's other comments, about other songs (even on UYI), I think there are just songs that stick in his craw as "not right".  Back with AFD and UYI, he had other band mates who had some say who would tell him they were ready.  And they'd push it out the door.

His comments on Sorry remind me of that.  I think he was probably convinced, by either band mates or by management or by a label rep (hahahahahaha) that Sorry was ready to go.  And I think that can happen with other material BUT (and this is the big caveat) I think it's a small segment of folks who can have that kind of influence on him, and I think they are reluctant to use it, mostly.  Much like he had no intention of putting "This I love" on their, but was convinced by the rest of his band mates.

I think the best way for me to explain it is: I think he's very PROTECTIVE of the material.  Almost like the songs were actual living beings...like his children, kinda.  I know that's a weird analogy, but it's the sense I get.  Maybe I'm way off base.  But maybe in some respects....they are, to him.  They're little pieces of himself he's potentially shipping off to exist in the world.  And he wants them to be their best "selves".

I know, weird and deep and all that. And I'm literally trying to read a guys mind who I've never met.  But, again, its always the sort of sense I've gotten.

You might  think he's  produce a lack mass output, but the label and past  management have had their part to play in this, The CD story of rerecording and changing producers is testament to this...

Obviously not.

But if your art is important, if you have integrity, you don't try to please the rest of the world.
You make things that you are proud of. Even if you know it might not be what your fans might be into. You still do it.

If you're motivated by money, then all that is secondary. As long as you get paid.
I don't see that in Axl or GN'R.



/jarmo

I was with you on that entire post until this bit.

There is never a time for that conversation, in my experience.  It's always out of line.

If 365 days from now, we are having this exact conversation and nothing will have happened in a full year's time, let's not then pretend there is going to be this sudden appetite for some hard questions.

If Axl is working with Slash, Duff and hopefully Izzy I?m more than happy with that. I really hope you are right.

 Axl knew BFF was leaving while on tour in South America. DJ made it clear this year he was leaving. Tommy first said he was "out of the loop". Here Jarmo posted an interview where Tommy pretty much said he was out. Richard has said "2016 will be a great year" or something like that. All this is recent. But Axl had chances from 2010 to 2014 to make a new album. Don?t get me wrong I don?t want a CD twin brother because I didn?t like  CD to begin with. Still I think Axl could?ve put something out. ? would?ve bought it despite my doubts. I will always buy any kind of album that Axl might make. Then of course I may like it or not

The question is why didn?t he make the CD follow up when he had New GN?R together? We don?t have an official statement on the matter. I wish we could have it. The best way to avoid speculations and wrong assumtions it is to have clear explanations from the people involved. Maybe there is a really good reason. But if we don?t know it. It is the same as nothing.

And if something is going to happen in 2016... Well we?re in December 2015

Maybe Sorry hits me the hardest because I agree with him. I don't agree with him that his voice was bad on LIES for example, and I can't think of a single song that sounds wrong on AFD and UYI's (My world doesnt count)

 

You're directing comments to "the management"...not me. ;)

We've (you and I) HAD those conversations, so I don't think it's unfair to assume that, in 6 months or a year or whatever....we'll have them again.

I just don't think right NOW, that particular sentence benefits from dissection.  Because there's an easy way to poo poo it given the rumors. Or at least hold the dissection on "truth vs not truth" at bay.

I'm not sure how much Axl "knew" about BBF, and how much he thought might be posturing for a new deal, or whatever.  You're right that BBF was doing the whole countdown thing, so you can adjust my fiction to take that into account, if you like.  And BBF was, IMHO, sort of a dick about the whole thing, so....there was some dealing with that, I'm sure.

Tommy's comments, made more recently, might include some historical perspective in there.  We don't know his intent at the end of the Vegas Residency...only his comments, now.

Ditto with DJ.  I think he announced his departure when he did for a reason.  And it MIGHT not be coincidence that rumors started to heat up almost directly after he left. Maybe. Possibly.

And all that interpretation would be in the light of there being a reunion.  And, FYI: I'm not convinced that's true.  But I'm more willing to at least entertain the notion than I ever have been.

Point being:

I can see a scenario where he was working on new material until some stuff happened that ushered in the possibility of reuniting with members of the former lineup.  And when he said he was going to work on it, he had no idea that was even a realistic option.

As for the rest: I think the reason we didn't see new material in 2009 - 2014 is exactly what I've been supposing: Axl didn't think it was ready, for one reason or another.  Any or all of the ones we've discussed here before (quality of material, assurances from the label over quality of release, etc, etc, etc).

He wants, IMHO, the perfect package.  You can argue that perfection is a futile persuit....and I might agree with you.  Axl might even agree with you, in theory.  But...the thing is...who's definition of "perfection" and "good enough" are we using.

Axls are the only ones that really matter. ;)

When it comes to BBF it wasn?t only the countdown. The GN?R camp issued a stament saying BBF told Axl in South America that he was leaving. They did that after DJ announced he was leaving.

As for CD II, Axl told us about it back 2001. At least at that time he seemed more determine to put it out. Sure he has the right to change his mind and he probably did. But I can?t see Axl being unhappy with the stuff he was working on.

It's a weird dynamic at work here.

I personally think Axl has lost a lot of fire for the project because so many that played meaningful roles in its creation are long gone.  If they were still around, I think he'd be more bullish.

Of course, the reason they all bailed was because of him, because of his chronic inaction.

So while I think you could argue his current situation is not rosy, who's fault is that, really?

I wouldn't go as far as to call him a dick, he was always very nice to the fans and it seemed he had issues with some bandmembers that did not welcome him with open arms (Especially Tommy). But maybe they were dicks to Him. We don't know.

He might not BE a dick.

But he was a dick about the way he left.  From start to finish.

You might disagree...that's fine.  But to me, seeing what I saw, reading what I read....he was.

Maybe his mistake was being a dick about it publicly hahaha.

Both sides handled his exit very poorly.

Ultimately Ron was more at fault, and by a good margin.  He really acted like a child.

But how do you let him run that game on everybody for a year?  Don't you shut that down?

'stay resentfull, be bitter and blame everyone else' he has on his refigerator, or something like that.

Don't think you can state "chronic inaction" as fact, truth is you don't know the exact reasons people chose to leave.

I am very optimistic about the next developments for GNR.

Not only was he a dick, but he was a passive aggressive kvetching dick.

why u say that?

Gee, because of his passive aggressive mentions and not so subtle allusions to GNR in his interviews.

Example:

Ron Thal interviewed in Thailand. Jokes about not having to play with them anymore (GNR) and no more of this song (SCOM).
That the "reign of doom" is over
http://pattaya103.com/guns-n-roses-ron-bumblefoot-thal-interview-thailand/

kvetch
[kvech] Slang.
verb (used without object)
1.
to complain, especially chronically.

Oh, Ron was totally passive aggressive.

I thought he made the band look bad too, with all his crap about not being able to talk, which turned out to be total bullshit.

I think Ron had good intentions, but in the end his desire to "be on the fans' side" looked quite unprofessional. Not that the fans might have been right about some things, but if you're a member of a band you're supposed to stick together and "speak with one voice".

He ended up appearing self-serving and very disingenuous IMO.

Agreed. 

Guy "went into business for himself", as the saying goes.

I think ron had good intentions to raise rons profile in the gnr community, so ron could hopefully sell more albums. I dont thnk ron was trying to serve the fanbase, or do anything more than serve rons own best interests.

And i think rons "good intentions" totally backfired.

And...for the record..i think ron totally played the gnr camp..and fanbase (because he knew the camp would likely react with silence) just like he plays that giant foot shaped guitar.

I agree.

Personally, I didn't even know who he was before his first show in 2006 and don't give one fuck about him since he left.

But some of the guys that have come through the revolving door were able to grab some GNR fans who then took interest in their own work.  I think he really poisoned that well.

Great synopsis, I agree with this completely- as I do the majority of your posts.

Nice insight  : ok: