Here Today... Gone To Hell!

The basis for my questions is think about bands like led zeppelin and pink floyd bands who are arguably more popular or more famous then Guns N Roses. I see daily on here people complaining as to what GNR has or hasn't done. Now for Led Zeppelin outside of the one off show they did a couple years ago and Pink Floyd when Roger & David appeared together at Live 8 i think it was do you think those fan bases clamor for a reunion like we do on here or do they just accept the fact that those bands will not perform together for whatever the reasons.

Now whether people liked the most recent line up or not is up to each persons own personal opinion but when you consider how popular the GNR name is and you look at other bands like the ones i mentioned who also have chosen not to get together for whatever the reasons i think we have actually been very fortunate we complain about only 1 album in 20 years how many has led zeppelin or pink floyd come out with and i know pink floyd recently did but i don't consider that pink floyd without Roger Waters.

So really think about what we have had in the past few years and whatever comes next whether its a reunion or a remodeled gnr we could have it much worse then what we have had.

yeah, that's it

You can't please everybody.





/jarmo

No... we dont have it "THAT BAD"....

As Axl said, go on and live your life.  ;)

Honestly.... if not a scerick of new music was released.. id actually be ok with it.

I'd just be happy with some UYI shows on blue ray being released so i can relive the old days a bit more. lol

How many albums did Led Zep put out?  Like, 8?  In what, 10 or 11 years?  And one's a double.

We got an album, an EP, a double album and a covers album.  Do they match up, really?

Do we have it bad?  Well, I don't think we have it good. 

Here's what I mean by that.

I look at the other bands I am big fans of and see far better managed careers.  More productive careers.  I look at some other fanbases and think they have a good thing going.  Conversely, I don't think one fanbase anywhere looks at us with anything resembling envy. 

We're a cautionary fuckin' tale.  The ultimate case of what might have been in the hard rock genre.

End of the day, just a lot of wasted time with this band.  What we have is great stuff, but its impossible to really put a good spin on all this inactivity unless you are REALLY emotionally invested in thinking that. 

And if you are, you have a ready made list on how bands that are productive are doing something wrong, bands that find a way to stay together are sellouts, or whatever else you have to try and put the best face on.

To each their own though.  No matter what side you come down on, you are fairly certain you are right.

to be a GNR fan sucks, but in a beautiful kind of way  ;D

The window of opportunity for more awesome music with the line ups that most fans respect has probably passed. Thats the sadness of it all. If we get a reunion, the odds of those guys putting an album together are 1 in 1000000 IMO. 

Yeah, it sucks to have 6 albums of the best vocalist (IMO). I guess we have it bad when it comes to being treated as a fan. They don't really try to keep us satisfied on a consistent basis. Not complaining, I guess becuase their songs don't really age. CD is still ahead of its time

One album of original material in around 24 years.
Yes, if records are what matter to you, it sucks. Particularly when we've been told however many times that there are a dozen or two 'amazing' songs just sitting there.

No you can't please everybody. But you can at least try to please the people who've stuck with you through the years and not treat them like the enemy. This band's persecution complex is like nothing I've ever seen in all of music.

I suppose it can only suck as much as you're invested in it. I always thought if CD did eventually come out, it'd probably be Axl's last album. When the reception was mixed and the promotion botched I thought that seemed fairly inevitable. Like it was something he really wouldn't want to put himself through again. So far, that seems to be the case.

At least from 2006 onwards, live shows have happened fairly consistently. If any other music ever comes out, to me it'll be a bonus. But I don't expect it to happen, however much jabbering we hear that it's right around the corner or this and that are being worked on. The Boys cried Wolf too many times a long time ago for me to put any stock in that.

The day I see a new GnR or Axl Rose album in store, I'll pick it up. But it's highly unlikely that will ever happen.

Between 1987-1991, Guns N Roses gave us music that was so incredible that we've clung to their every breath since then.  They did more in 4 years than most bands could give if they lived 1000 lifetimes.

I'd say we have it great, as long as we know when to let go.  I guess that's the key, some people just don't.

I don't think it's about knowing when to go. It's about wanting that late era masterpiece from Axl, which nobody would be expecting or hoping for if Axl and his associates/bandmates etc. hadn't repeatedly told us exists and is always right around some corner that we all never seem to turn.

Whether it's an author, singer or filmmaker, you can't allude to some great masterwork existing without fans of the existing stuff being hungry for it. To be honest I think Guns have capitalised on that idea very successfully.

Who the fuck's sitting around waiting? Seriously, where do you get that shit, baby?

I already said I don't expect him to release anything again. Jesus dude, take your smug condescension and stick it. You're hanging out on this forum too. What image do you have of your peers, they're all sitting around in empty rooms wearing bandanas and AXL sneakers and clutching their vinyl copy of Chinese crying over whether Axl Rose puts out a song or not? News flash: people like discussing entertainment for kicks, for a lark, for light relief. It doesn't mean they have nothing else going on in their life. Honest to God, if that's what you think you're way off base. I think I can speak for the vast majority here when I say the people who make the music I rock out, party, chill or make out to are a somewhat far secondary consideration in my life to say the least.

'If you had it in your personality to let go'  :rofl:

You do know you're on a moderately popular forum for a possibly defunct rock band, right? I don't think we all need to go lie down on the couch and talk about our mommies here. In fact the only person in this thread who seems to be taking this shit way too seriously is you.

Well in the case of Zeppelin Bohan is dead so a full reunion is impossible. They decided to part ways. Page and Plant have done things together and on their own. Also as Led Zeppelin, during their pick they made a lot more albums than GN?R, same for Pink Floyd. Keep in mind that Waters kept doing things. Just a couple of years ago he came up with that musical The Wall and he tour around the world.

So if you compare catalogues, well Zeppelin and Pink Floyd (when they were all together) it is by far a lot bigger than when GN?R old band were together. And the one album Axl made with New GN?R didn?t make a big impact.  Too much soap opera, drama and comedy went on in the last 20 years with GN?R

How many songs do we have again?

I'd suggest reading Bridge's last response and possibly reconsidering attempting to engage on a rational level. ;)

I dont know what GNR fans really want.. I have Appetite, Lies Illusions, Incident and Chinese on Vinyl, CD and on my iphone.. Plays it mostly on Vinyl after my kids are in bed.. or in the car through BT. I also have the other releases, some bootlegs and DVDs... This is why i am a GNR fan... Dont dwel with the future.. its not our problem, its the band.. but i sure get excited when things happens... but until then.. be GNR fan you are.. not the one you want to be..

Kudos to the original poster for starting this topic to remind people it's not as bad as it seems.

The usual suspects are of course here telling us it really s that bad or worse to be a GN'R fan. Poor poor them.
Have you noticed how many new threads have turned into them complaining about something lately? Reunion speculation is now about them complaining about Axl's interviews, CD seven years anniversary is about them complaining about the lack of the next album...

Poor us!




/jarmo

Truly strange that a 7 year anniversary thread for the last album should remind people that it's been 7 years since the last album.  : ok:

I would say that persecution complex is evident more in some of their fans. 

But would also strongly suggest they are just taking that cue from their leader.  So, ultimately, I guess you are right.

But is a topic like this a referendum on the quality of the work in their prime?  I think there is universal agreement that 4-5 years run was awesome.

This has nothing to do with the merit of the music produced.  I'd wager any of us would say we like the GNR material more than we like other bands stuff.

To me, this question comes down to what other fanbase trades places with us?  And the answer, I would think, is no one.

Is there some other fanbase that wishes their band was run like this one?  Are there other fanbases that opine, that Axl...man, that dude has the right idea.

Who?  Who is saying that?

The fact such a thread needs to be made in the first place is telling, though.

This fanbase has 47 variations on "its not that bad...if you think about it".

What is that?  Good?

Lot of other fanbases need this sort of pep talk or rationalizing about the situation?

Maybe it is telling about the mentality of some posters. You're right.
Look in the mirror.  :P




/jarmo

Completely agree on all but the first line I quoted. I don't know what someone would measure fandom in...fervour I guess, if that was quantifiable...but a lot of people I would wager are further down the ladder than saying Guns are their favorite band or that their music means the most to them. There are a lot of casual to moderate Guns fans who go to the forums simply because its the only way you hear anything (well, up until the recent reunion rumors) and because there's a certain grim fascination. It's a screwed up story and you can't help but wonder where, if anywhere, it goes from here.

Don't get me wrong, I love Axl, I think he's one of the best out there and there's been times in my life when a song of his has got me through the night. Seen the band many times in its various permutations and had some great times. But...and I don't know how to say this...I'm sorry honey, while you were away...there...*chokes back tears* there were others. ;)

I do genuinely have sympathy for the people who love this band more than they love any other band, any film, any form of art and entertainment because there's a lot of them out there. It can't be easy wondering if you're ever going to get another album or even another song when it means that much to you.

Did I make this thread?  I think you just giving mad props to the person who did, not 5 posts ago.

No?

Oh well, GNR4LIFEJD.  Guess I'll just meet you at the mirror.  We must atone.

Once again, I'll explain logic to you.

People start whining -> somebody needs to sit them down, pat them on their heads and remind them they can't have candy every day.

There. That was the purpose of this thread. :)
So look in the mirror and you might see a reason why a thread like this had to be created. : ok:



/jarmo

Because nothing happens with this "band".  That's why.

Unless you are suggesting we would ever see a thread like this if the band actually released stuff more than once a decade.  Are you suggesting that?

Do I think you'd be a happier super fan if there'd been a new album between 2008 and now? No, honestly I don't.
Sorry.

Do you wanna know why? I'll tell you. We saw it in 2008-9. It didn't take that long for people to start asking/talking about the next album. It's human nature I guess.
So, I think no matter how many albums GN'R might have released, it wouldn't be good enough. Some would still want more, something different, somebody different or whatever.

Maybe you think there's a magical formula that would work for all, unfortunately I've been around long enough to know better.

I'd rather have the band do what they want, when they want, and believe in it, than to worry about pleasing fans. But that's just me. Maybe I'm just evil and hate all other fans!  :hihi:




/jarmo

You are not a mind reader.  A statement like this is irrelevant.



And I was among them, these awful people? 

How would you know?  I didn't even start posting here until 2012 or so.  And you've consistently said you don't go other forums.  So how does this apply to me?

It doesn't.

Again, leave the clairvoyance to the Zoltar machine that makes people 'Big'.

No, you assume I'm not!  :rofl:
But, we got a track record. :)





Didn't say they were awful. Just another one of your "poor us" generalizations.
You asked me a question, and I answered.
I have a a habit of doing that.

So I explained to you why I think some things would be pretty similar no matter what GN'R does, how many albums are released etc. etc. etc.
Another point, I think some are too concerned about their online appearance. Don't wanna be a fanboy! That also plays part in why I think the way I do regarding your question.

Hope this helps.




/jarmo

Pretty consequence free statement, no?

Since this kind of thing doesn't, you know...actually happen, we really can't see if what you are saying would be proven accurate.  Can we?

And since it seems unlikely to happen in our lifetimes, I suppose you will always be able to cling to this.  What a break for you.

Now, if you're lucky, someone might fall for not that not see right though it. 

That person will never be, I'm afraid.  So good luck on the search.

Jarmo, I?m somewhat confused by what your opinion is here.  Are you saying fans have it good because to think otherwise means you?re not a true fan, or are you saying that, regardless of what the situation is, there will always be unhappy people?  Obviously, you can never please everybody, but when is that ever the goal? 

You asked a question, I answered.

Prove me wrong. Was Chinese Democracy the answer to all grievances? No.
Was the tour the magical answer to make all complaints disappear? No.

I got these facts to look at.
Don't like it? Sucks to be you I guess...




Exactly, my opinion is that some (please note the word some) fans will never have it good enough. Always something.... That's my opinion based on over a decade reading posts on GN'R fan sites.

And therefore, a topic like this is sometimes needed. To remind those people of the good things. :)



/jarmo

Never.  Its a statement of deflection.

"You can't please everybody" is true is most phases of life and pretty universally accepted.

Is it ever the answer to "hey, how come this band takes a decade to release an album"?

No.  No, its not.  Not now, not ever.

But that question has no good answer.  So then, we shift the conversation and change the subject. 

Or try to, anyway.

I think the sting from the disintegration of classic Guns lingers more so than other bands of their era, because Guns was our generations Rolling Stones. They were the last of their kind. No band has managed to even lift the torch since.

It seemed too soon.
Seemed they had plenty more in the tank.

I guess the upside could be that they have a very potent catalogue.
The Stones prime ended in the early to mid 70?s, and have been pumping out mostly forgettable albums since.
Same could be said about Aerosmith.

Would I prefer to have the option of more GN?R albums to listen to and decide for myself if I liked them or not?
Yea, but I guess if we are bending over backwards to find some silver linings in their possible premature demise, the potency of their limited discography could be one.

I've seen the band 14 times since 2002,  that is hardly a band that "sits around doing nothing."   Yes I think most of us would want more new music, I want a new song everyday, they are my favorite band.  But things are nowhere near as horrible as some of you make it out to be.  I suppose if all I did was sit and wait for GNR to release music it would be pretty bad, but there are a lot of bands out there, GNR is not the ONLY band that makes music, just the BEST one.  I went to about 200 other shows that Weren't GNR since 2002 as well, so I guess that kind of follows the "live your life " thing.  I check this site everyday for news but I don't get bent out of shape when there is none.

Bodhi, good points.  : ok:




/jarmo

And this is, pretty much, what you figure is happening?

People are quitting their jobs, cutting off communication with friends and family, all to sit in a corner and rock back and forth over the fact GNR doesn't release anything?

Does that make sense?

Or is it, perhaps, more likely that any and all discussion about GNR happens at this board amongst other fans during a work day?  Do you think much time is spent on the topic of GNR once people log off here for the day?

If you allow its interpretation to be broad.



Right, and if you left it at that.....how would you feel about the band?


But you're separating the wings from the bird here.  The music is what's keeping you here, willing to continuously tolerate all the bullshit.  So can they really be separated?

Axl Rose has always been Axl Rose, and Guns N Roses has always been dysfunctional.  If you take that away, are they still really Guns N Roses?  Could they be better businessmen?  Maybe.  But, when you bellyache about Axl's silence, the lack of new material or plans, are you really discovering now something you never discovered before?  I'm not going to even ask if anyone here is surprised by the delays, the revolving door band members, and the overall discord, because nobody is.  The only thing I'm surprised at is people who continuously think we're going to get blood from a stone.


Yes, but what mentality brings about that question?  Your intimation certainly seems to be "nobody would trade places with us because our favorite band subjects us to such shitty treatment."  But might I suggest that the flipside is, "I allow the band to subject me to shitty treatment by standing there and taking the bullets instead of turning around and heading for the door."   I personally never ask myself the question above because it doesn't occur to me that I'm being treated badly by Axl or Guns N Roses at this stage.

I think you'd have a stronger argument if you were speaking from the standpoint of the fans who attended concerts that featured riots or no-shows.  But when you visit this site, you don't see anyone bitching about that.  Around here, everyone's biggest gripes are "There is no news!  There is no album!  The lineup is uncertain!  Are they reuniting or aren't they!"  I would assert that only constitutes shabby treatment in the minds of those who feel entitled.  Guns N Roses isn't giving you cancer or costing you anything by going 8 years without an album, even if it is unusual or downright quizzical.  And I'm not going to agree with anyone who says Axl or GNR costs you any time either, because Axl doesn't stick a gun through your computer screen and force you to keep reading.



But who would say that?  Who would stop and bother to conceive and rationalize that question, other than someone who falls into the description I provided above? 

All things considered, I might feel like GNR owed me something and treated me badly if I paid for a show that resulted in chaos or if Axl didn't show up.  That I can understand.  But I don't feel that I have it so bad merely because of the manner that Axl does business, be he right or wrong.  It doesn't mean I understand or condone all the insanity, I just don't feel personally affected by it, let alone feel robbed by it.

Well, I am that person.  But Jarmo gets all chapped if its ever mentioned.

But that was just one night of disappointment.  Doesn't really compare to the all the wasted time and inactivity over decades.

Far bigger deal.  The man has wasted much of his career doing nothing.  For a guy that talented, its a shame.

That's how I view this question, and why I compare it to other bands.

Haha, well, I was almost that person too.  I had a ticket for a 2002 show that got canceled, but fortunately I was notified a few days before the show and spared the agony.


Right, but at whose expense?  That's my overall philosophy.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in principle, but really, who is truly affected (and I mean directly affected) by Axl's "wasted career"?  If Axl's band members weighed in on the subject (and I'm sure they could), I'd give them more credence.  But not people on a message board who feel like their lives have been slighted by his inactivity.

Oh, I'd have absolutely loved to get a few words, off the record, from the guys who played on CD and how they thought it was all handled.

But I agree with you that they would have a bigger beef than any fan.

I'm not directly affected.  Its just a bummer and I have no problem saying so.

I find it mildly amusing that the answer from our great leader on here is that "some people just like to whinge & moan".. this statement gets used for anything that he refuses to achnowledge.

For example... Guns have only released one album in 20 + years.. "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"...

How come Axl and management dont make any effort to keep the hardcore fans updated... "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"

etc etc etc

Yeah, it's been what, almost 13 years?
Guess what, I was in Portland, ME in 2006. I went there on a train and Greyhound.

I had tickets to a show in 2001. I had tickets to a Snakepit show in 2000...
It's not like these things affect me over a decade later. That's just me.



Bridge brings up good points which puts your act in perspective...
Not that you'd admit to anything.





Your sarcasm, condescending tone etc etc. are noted.

I'm nobody's leader. Never been about that at all. So, not sure what you're after. Maybe you can explain yourself.



Your whining about all things GN'R really is helping isn't it? :)
Just a FYI, it's not like you are privy to some secret the rest of us don't know about the number of albums released or the amount of updates you want. We know! We are aware of the discography. Who are you repeating these things for?

Why don't you just read what I said and prove me wrong? Instead of these condescending generalizations? That's the thing with you guys. You want to discuss but only on your terms. As soon as it's possible, you turn to this or just ignore the topic like nothing happened.


/jarmo

Well, "you can't please everybody".

This apparently counts as on topic answer.  Apparently. 

No follow ups, please.  Thanks in advance.

Unlike you, I answer questions asked. You're the last person who should try to act smug.  :-*




/jarmo

Just trying to project my happy whinging attitude.... maybe i didnt include enough smileys in my post... here.. ive included some for you.. just so you know im in a good mood.  :) ;) :D ;D :D ;) :)

now.... ill address your post.

Im not repeating anything for anyone... its just that anytime someone mentions a gripe your first instinct is to go into defence mode.. which includes a couple of stock standard answers... we know what those are. And to a lot of people.. it looks really silly. I am sorry if that upsets you... but the fact remains, a large percentage of the hardcore fan base of this band have a lot of serious gripes. A lot of people have articulated their point of view and constructed it in a way that most proponents could still acknowledge certain points, but you aren't capable of this. You just fight the good fight no matter what. Admirable... ill give you that.

Here is a question... has relentlessly crusading against any relevant point brought up (that may be a negative towards guns) ever been a victory for you? Why not just acknowledge it.. and then we can move on. Where has being ignorant to the hardcore fan base got anyone? If Guns themselves perhaps addressed a few of these points and provided some clarity on things, then perhaps these issues would be understood by people like myself, Degen sofine and the rest of the dissenting fanbase.. etc etc etc

I know you will take this post as insult and it will be noted somewhere.. but i find it a relevant question to ask.

With answers so stock and boilerplate, any one of us could log on as you for a week, play the part, and no one would notice.

Let's hold off on the medal ceremony just yet.

Did you read my first post?

You can't please everybody.
Is that wrong? So tell me why you think that statement is out of line?

My second post was pointing out how some of you have managed to turn multiple discussion into the same old complaints that you could post any week of the year. The lack of updates, albums and whatever. Am I wrong?


I really don't care if anything I do looks silly. Sorry.




Crusading, great leader. I suggest you stop with these lame attempts at insults.

Victory? You're the one in a topic saying "Hey, things aren't as bad as they seem" telling everybody they're way worse. to me and some others, it just makes some of you look like little entitled crybabies. Sorry for being so blunt. Before you get upset, I'm not saying you are entitled.

"Oh no, we didn't get an update". "Boohoo, they didn't tell us they care about us".
One minute it's not serious, it's only a rock band. But the next you guys get upset over tweets and shit like that. WTF?

Who is ignorant to the hardcore fanbase? I met many of them at the shows I attended. They didn't seem upset. Why is that?
I think this is yet another case of "this is what works for me, so I'll pretend is true for others and say it's true for all fans".




Oh really?
That's creepy.




/jarmo

Jarmo, I bet you think you could post as me for a week too.

We should try it.  See who nails the better homage.

Sorry, not into acting. I prefer to be myself.



/jarmo

Maybe it what works for me? I'll take that on board,. My expectation of the band isnt that great.

I am not one of the people who is crying for a new album every second summer. I dont expect that. Hell... im not even one of these people who cries about the set-list that much... that doesnt overly bother me too much either. All i am asking, as a paying fan, who buys my ticket, buys the shirts, Beer mugs, the albums etc is that the management give a little back in terms of updates. That is what works for me. If you go and ask other hardcore fans if they are happy with it all... maybe they are... i dont know. I know that others on here share my major gripe.. which is simply communication.

The thread is.. do we have it that bad?

I answered, in terms of the music we have got... NO.... its timeless.. i love it, its all i care for.. but thats just one part of it. The short sightedness of the bands management to make GNR accessible to the fans is a big red cross aginst it. I have said repeatedly, people want to hear from their favorite band, why hasnt there been any updates on what happened to BBF, ASHBA.... etc.. Why has it taken so long for merchandise on the site to just start kicking into overdive? Why cant any hardcore fan buy a fucking Axl Rose signed piece of official memorabilia????

Listen, i come from a business background, so these things all come fairly natural to me in terms of communications, and marketing.. and yes i see a lot of flaws.. basic ones.. i just hope they get addressed.. if it was... i wouldnt be moaning.

Do we have it THAT bad? no... i will live my life happy.. is it frustrating that basic things arent available to the fan group.. yes.

Note, i only post here because i give a shit about the band deeply.. and Axl. As do others. I just hope we as fans can get a bit given back. And for FFS...ask Fernando to get some signed memorabilia on the site.... all i want is a signed fucking Axl Rose Picture for my new lounge room that i know is legit rather than trawling ebay for stuff we cant trust. ;-)

 

 

Ok. Fair "complaint". Let's say feedback.

Let me ask you this regarding your feedback. Are you aware that, if not all of us, then most of us, would love more of everything? Including updates?

If you are, which I hope, does it make sense to you that when you post your feedback regarding the lack of updates for the umpteenth time, some of us have seen this same feedback for years and it still hasn't really changed anything?






All of these questions, you could assume answers for. If you were so inclined.

Let me show you how:
Q: Why don't they update fans on a guitarist leaving?
A: Maybe because they don't have a solution yet, and when they do, they'll say so.

How bad would this look? "We lost a guitar player, we don't have any other news". Is that the kind of update you're longing for?


If you can make that jump, maybe you'd feel better about it? Who knows.

Why won't they sell Axl signatures? Well, maybe he doesn't sign a lot of stuff. And when he did, they had a fan club contest for them. Also, I think they did sell some kind of card with his signature a while ago. So yes, you could have bought it.
Edited to add: http://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2014/07/Roseauto.jpg


Why did it take so long for merchandise? Maybe legal issues? Licensing?

I'm not a business expert, or marketing expert but I still managed to think of plausible reasons for your feedback.


See, now you managed to post something worthwhile instead of the silly attempts at insults and generalizations.




/jarmo

Ok, baby steps here.... but I'll try to be pro-active here and rather than "whinge", i will see if we can get something moving on "one small detail" that would help both sides of this equation. .... here is a question.

When Fernando Returns, (i am assuming he will be back on here at some stage shortly to provide whatever update he was intending) is it possible that he will hang around long enough to answer a few quick questions and see if he can get something happening on one of them.

Here goes.

I am an avid collector of memorabilia. I have all sorts of Sporting stuff that was acquired through official channels so i KNOW that the signatures are legit and they look great, one of my major disapointments is not being able to acquire a legit piece of Axl memorabilia, yet if something was available on the official site.. id spend the money in a heart beat. . Is it possible, that GNR's marketing guru (Fernando or otherwise), could look at the possibilty of doing a run of signed memorabilia. This could be a limited edition run of say 1000 prints. stick it on the website... if they look fantastic.. im sure they'd sell like hot-cakes amongst hardcore gnr fans.. It would be great. Just like i buy any new t-shirt i like.. id be wrapped. I cant be the only person who would buy something like this?

So.. is it possible that this idea could be raised with Fenando... i just cannot see any losers in this idea. I really cant.  :D 

I don't know if you saw it, but he already did that: http://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2014/07/Roseauto.jpg



/jarmo

Wasnt that a promotion that you had to actually win the card?

I am just speaking about real fans being able to purchase this stuff on the website ongoing...

anyway... i just wanted to throw it out there.  :)

I think it was a limited edition thing, so maybe there was a lottery involved.

Regarding your other feedback, I already addressed most of it in my previous post.




/jarmo

bridge made some great points. ive said similar things. its your choice to follow the band. nobody makes you. they are artists. not doctors. you dont need them. placing expctations on them is silly. they are not under some contract with us. 

what this thread reminds me of is when the purpose of the stay of execution name being published was revealed. jaeball, and maybe a few others, were initially upset because axl was trying to save some dudes lives instead of giving them some kind of update. it was like, seriously guys? is an update really more importantant than trying to stop some guys from being executed?

its importantant to put things in perspective. its like the whole "a watched pot never boils" thing. except youre not even going to cook your dinner in this pot. its just some pot that music comes out of. i like pot. the end.

All correct. 

But if asked your opinion, you can't comment?  Is your right to offer an opinion based on what that opinion is?

That's where you lose people, I think.  That where the cult talk, and some of the other disparaging descriptions come from.

You don't have to agree with a dissenting opinion, but to live in such fear of it even being expressed?  Kind of odd.

It's a bit curious, this thing about being a fan of one particular band.  I mean, I would say I'm a fan of several bands - Guns N' Roses among them.  I'm not an Iron Maiden fan who shakes his head sadly when looking at Guns N' Roses, and I'm not a Guns N' Roses fan who looks with bitter jealousy at the way Iron Maiden is run.  If a band I like releases an album I don't like, I don't need to keep listening to it and resenting it for not being up to scratch (Turisas, I'm looking in your direction...), I can just listen to something else.

The idea of being part of one fanbase is something I really only do with football (soccer).  For my sins I'm an Airdrieonians fan, and always will be.  When they play awful football, when they get relegated, when they sign dud players... I'm still getting my season ticket and going to the games.  I might look wistfully at how other clubs are run, or wish we had a chairman like such-and-such a team, or a player from another team and so on, but Airdrie's my team and will be until I die.  It would never occur to me to support another team.


So, no, I don't feel hard done by as a Guns N' Roses fan.  I've got some records from them, and I enjoy them.  If they come to my country, I'd like to see them play (whenever they've been before I've had either the money or the time, but never both).  I could not care less about autographed merchandise or Twitter.  That's not to say I'm pleased with the way the band is run, or their rate of releasing material - who possibly could be?  None of us, if asked how they would want Guns N' Roses to be, would say "Just as it is now, that suits me grand."  Most of my rock-fan friends think they've become a complete joke.  They may be right about that.  

The thing is... I don't feel entitled to more from them.  I don't feel that I'm suffering.  Guns N' Roses don't hold me captive to torment me with their indolence - they're just a band I like who don't do much that I can see.  But it is frustrating to know that so much talent has gone to waste, so much potential has been unfulfilled.  The brilliant, brilliant chemistry of the classic line-up is gone.  It burnt out before its time.  They might have ruled the roost for a decade or more, but they didn't.  The albums they could have done when they were all still young men with creative fire and excitement and that magical connection will never be made, and will never be heard.  Even if there is some kind of a reunion, and even if it does lead to new material, I don't think any of us would expect them to recapture what they had and threw away.  Axl's disappearances and intermittent touring for a ten year period have denied us, effectively, a decade of live performances by a great performer.  And even now that he has come back and started touring more frequently, the sad fact is that his physical peak is now behind him.

I mentioned Iron Maiden earlier.  Let's cast our minds back to Rock in Rio, 2001.  After more than a decade out of the band, Maiden's best guitarist, and one of their most important songwriters, Adrian Smith, is back on board.  So, too, is singer Bruce Dickinson,  who had quit the band in 1993 - effectively restoring their classic 80s lineup, and retaining Janick Gers, an entertaining performer and excellent songwriter.  They are playing the final show of their Brave New World tour, promoting an album that marks not only the return of Smith and Dickinson, but a return to form as songwriters, following what most fans and critics regard as a pretty lacklustre decade (certainly in comparison to the eighties).  The show is a triumph, and is subsequently released as a live album and DVD.  Since then, the reformed Iron Maiden (though they had never actually split up) has released another four studio albums, the most recent a double album, in addition to Brave New World.  All of them have attracted favourable critical attention, all of them show a band refusing to just rely on their 80s laurels, some charting better than they ever have done.  They've toured many times - sometimes doing "history" tours focusing on certain eras of their past, but also being so daring as to tour their 2006 album A Matter of Life and Death playing the whole album from start to finish, and saving a clutch of classics for the encores (can you imagine Guns N' Roses doing that with Chinese Democracy?).  They've released a handful of live albums and DVDs, have a pretty active media presence and new merchandise, for people who are into that kind of thing.  But in 2001, all of that lies in the future.

Also playing at that festival are Guns N' Roses, also on a comeback of sorts.  We don't need to go into what they've been up to since.

Now, we don't need to go into great detail into the contrast between what these two veteran bands have been up to since playing that festival almost fifteen years ago.  I know the circumstances are different.  But looking back, does anyone here not wish that Guns N' Roses had followed a more Iron Maiden-like trajectory?  

I don't feel hard done by.  I don't think that as a Guns N' Roses fan I've "got it bad".  I don't feel cheated, or robbed, or badly treated.  I don't feel entitled to anything.  I don't feel malice towards the band or their management.  I don't feel bitter, or let down.  

But I do sometimes feel frustrated by it all, and wistfully wonder what might have been...

That is a GREAT post, Virolec.

Iron Maiden was actually one of the exact bands I was thinking of making my fanbase comparison.

I really like Iron Maiden, but I like GNR's music more.  Always will.

Do I wish my fan experience following GNR was a more like the Iron Maiden fan's has been?

You bet your ass.

Agree

 : ok:

Virolec, its hard to disagree with anything you wrote in that post.

We cant change the past, Axl cant change it and the band cant change it either. Its a damn shame that it played out the way it did, but looking at the history of the band, it had drug addicts, alcoholics, and a front man who may or may not have been manic, but most certainly acted like it. It's no surprise that it fell apart.

Am i happy with the music we have? Well, as i have said a million times, it stops for me at TSI. The music until that point is my favorite of any artist. I like other music, of course i do, but i dont "follow" the bands like i follow this one. Yes it does make me wonder why a few simple things couldn't be enhanced for us fans, that's been discussed at length today and it still does my head in that for every point that is made, there seems to be some sort of counter point to shoot it down rather than just saying... you know what... maybe that's a legit issue.

Do we have it that bad? Its a broad question? In terms of picking up AFD, or UYI sticking that record on, i dont say... gee i wish these albums had better songs, or more songs i liked. That's simply not the case, because i love each song on those albums.. so yeah... i feel like what we do have is exceptional stuff. I wish we had some more live stuff from 87-93 released officially but that's life too.

My only hope is that things improve from here, as a fan experience, it doesnt matter whether you like the memorabilia, or want merch, or new releases of old shows or current shows on blue-ray, or want to hear from Axl a bit more or even from TB regarding whats going on.......OR even a new album, ... I just hope that the fans get a bit more in the future, and hopefully from here on, the fan experience can get better. I know some people see that as "wanting" or "feeling entitled", but if they stopped that way of thinking, and perhaps embraced the fact that there is still a lot of fans out there who are interested, it could actually be viewed as a good thing.

That last part is and always has been the part that's perplexed me in all of this.

If none of that eventuates, then so be it. Ill still go back to watching Axl and Slash tear it up on Youtube from the old days, wear my shirt down the pub when im having a beer and turn the albums i do have up as loud as possible over and over to piss the neighbours off.  :D

i would say its not so much fear of those opinions as it is more of an "ok dude, we get it. we got it 100 times ago." shit gets old, yknow? its like a guy that complains about his job everyday. eventually you might get tired of it and mention that if hes so unhappy with his job, he could always look for another one. the next thing you know hes telling you "youre just a tool, youre on the man's side!"

Exactly Rj.....



/jarmo

Exactly! The same regurgitated whiny complaints get tiring to have to listen to ad infinitum from the same circle of mewling quim that never seem happy and will always find something to complain about.

This must be their theme song  :hihi:

https://youtu.be/ZAAKPJEq1Ew

So we all just wink and nod that they exist, but don?t talk about them?  That?s still stifling any criticism, which seems to be the goal here.  Just because people have complained about wanting more music from Guns over the last 20+ years doesn?t make the criticism any less valid.  It still exists, so why not talk about it, or at least acknowledge its presence? 

If you truly want it to go away, or at least lessen the amount of criticism, then fix it.  Case in point:  late/canceled shows.  There have been very few over the most recent tours, and as a result I think a lot (not all) of the criticism about Axl showing up late (say, compared to 2002) has died down.  Why?  Because they fixed it.

Despite what you believe about most of us here, we?re not always looking to lob complaints?it?s more like we call it like we see it.  And, in a thread titled ?Do we as Guns n Roses fans have it that bad?, it?s 100% relevant. 

Also, Virolec, solid post.

OK, but with all due respect, what's this speech?  Fresh??

A popular goto is how complaining about the band won't change anything.  That it never showed it ever will, so belaboring it is a waste of time and effort.

How is this any different?  Is there a real wealth of evidence any of these lectures are having any impact?

Do me a favor... and I mean this in the nicest way possible... please shut the fuck up and get off ur high horse... I never said anything negative towards Axl or about him "trying to save peoples lives". I was never upset about it, nor do I get upset about anything that goes on around here.

If you go back and read what i said... I thought Axl's letter war very powerful and intense... my point was at the end of the day... Axl Rose is an entertainer to me... I care about what he brings to me as a fan... not as much as his personal feelings on other walks of life outside of the entertainment industry.

Come back to the real world for a minute.

To the topic at hand.

No we don't have it bad.

Bodhi had a strong post about all the shows he was able to go to, and same goes for me. Chinese Democracy was great to finally get and Axl gave us a great record. Did it all play out in a timely fashion? No... but there's nothing we can do about it now.

To the people who hate the criticism the operation receives... I don't think you take in to account how hard the dissolution of GNR was for fans..especially North American fans... where GNR is "their band".

Somebody who complains about it on a daily basis? There is no need for that either.

I'm hopeful and excited for the future of GNR... It has the potential to make 99 percent of us really fucking happy.

I think this point can get lost in the shuffle.

Here in our home country the band is dead.  Dead, been dead, been buried, spoken about in the past tense only.  So when you hear some of we U.S. folks talking the way we do sometimes, you have to factor that in.

It may not be that way in other corners of the world, but its how it is here. 

I wouldn't call it dead... but we are less accepting of GNR without Slash and Duff compared to everywhere else. I've never hid from that or denied it.

If that makes me or us look foolish to some posters here... I'll live.. ha

We seem to be more discerning customers.

It seems that some places are just glad Axl came to see them.  And if he brings Slash, Buckethead, DJ...doesn't matter. 

It matters here. 

Some cope with that by ripping American crowds and a bunch of stock boilerplate stuff about how other places are more open minded.  If that makes you feel better, hey, salud. 

But it doesn't change the facts on the ground, here domestically.

To be honest, part of me wonders if one of the driving forces behind this potential reunion talk is so that they can tour the U.S. properly again.

They have left a lot of money on the table the past few years.

Why do you harp on this... lol

Whenever you bring up the proper US tour .... jarmo gets extra mad at you....

He gets mad at me when I log on.  Not much I can do about that.

But I do think that's a part of this, if its true.

Let's be honest.  This is more about $BIG DOLLAZ$ than art, this endeavor.  Not that I give a shit either way.

I'd say a few people actually hate well thought out constructive feedback.

It's the pointless dwelling on how things didn't go as you had planned/hoped that gets tiring after a decade.
It's also the generalizations made by people who really have no clue.



Why are you spinning it?
Why not just admit the fact. (Hard) rock music seems to be more popular in other countries. No shame in admitting that.


By the way, Creed was huge over there.  :hihi:

Last time you tried to understand the business of a GN'R tour in the US, you were told you were wrong. I hate to remind you. But it seems like you're still under the impression that you have some kind of idea....A bit of humility please. : ok:



/jarmo

nah I'd say the people who have followed the history of the band have a little more than a clue...

Are you saying us unintelligent Americans are the only people who like Creed?  :)

Couldn't name one Creed song btw...

That's more of a a middle America kinda thing.

I sort of liked 'My Sacrifice'.

But so many Creed songs sounded the same to me.

I?ve yet to meet anybody in person who was into what Axl has been up to post Spaghetti Incident.
It was like pulling teeth convincing my, at the time, avid concert going, fans of Guns N? Roses friends to check out GN?R in Worcester in ?06.

They weren?t/aren't upset about Axl continuing on without 4/5 of the Guns N? Roses they grew up on.
Axl plus a bunch of people they had never heard of simply didn?t appeal to them.

Some people here seem to view Guns N? Roses as Axl Rose, plus whomever Axl Rose feels like playing with at any given time.
That?s all well and good, and technically they aren?t wrong as Axl owns the rights to the name, and can stamp it on anything he pleases, but it?s simply not how the majority of fans see it.

In my experience, GN?R in the states was dead by ?94.
Many fans, myself included, will still pay to see Guns N? Roses live because they are fans of Axl Rose.
None of my friends left the DCU in Worcester that night in ?06 feeling like they just witnessed a GN?R concert.
Some were more impressed than others, but for the most part were entertained by the performance of Axl Rose.
They got to see Axl Rose, but they didn?t get to scratch seeing Guns N? Roses live off of their bucket list.

So I wouldn?t say we have it bad.
I think the majority of fans, at least in my experience, would be that we have some of rock n? rolls last great albums, and post ?93, nothing more.

I?m the only one of my circle still interested in the happenings of current day GN?R, and it's probably more of a morbid curiosity at this point than anything else.

You know, if you weren't so god damn eager, and just collected your thoughts before you made the post, I wouldn't have to keep going back to check on these clever addendums you couldn't come up with the first time.

But, lest I be accused of ignoring you, I'm content to see how the next U.S. tour with a non-traditional line-up plays out.  Believe I said that at the time as well.

Wouldn't change a word of this.

Not really.
Because you can spin anything.

If you have followed the band, you know how it operates. Yet some of those people keep posting about how they don't like it.
Yeah, we get it. Your complaint wasn't original in 1992 and it isn't original in 2015.... But anyway...





No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying humans with bad taste liked that band. ;) Kidding!


I'm not trying to make this into a "my country VS your country" thing like some already tried.
One country doesn't necessarily have a better taste than another. Just because hard rock music is more popular somewhere else doesn't mean it's because they're happy to "just see Axl".



/jarmo

Poor you. Sometimes I see there's two more posts making silly remarks that I didn't notice when I started making my original post, so I add stuff to my original post instead of posting 5 different posts.

Just for you, here's another one of my posts!



/jarmo

I'll make sure to circle back in 5-10 minutes.

Focus, I know it's hard for you to focus on more than a few discussions at once. 
I know you can do it!  : ok:



/jarmo

you wanna know what you actually said?

"I love Axl the singer ... As far as his personal beliefs or what he thinks about x y and z.. Not that important to me, and I doubt very important to the decision makers regarding this situation. It would be great to hear from him if it was regarding GNR . That's just me."

that response, and your attempt to defend it by emphasizing what bad men they were, spoke volumes about you. pretty fuckin selfish. and for the record, you shut the fuck up.  :D

to ginger, dont you see that those topics end up being the only things we talk about? they swallow up the board. they are just not that interesting. and what is there to gain from reiterating them so many times?

They got one (1) good song; 'wrong way'.

Selfish ? Again ... Come back to the real world ... We are talking about the importance of one guy who sings songs

At least make sense if you are going to personally call me or anybody else out on the board ...

Actually im really disappointed in myself for even addressing this, Just kinda creepy ..

Take care of yourself ... actually I apologize for my aggressive tone... I really don't care what you think about it.. but we are clearly coming from this from different perspectives... you seem to put Axl on a pedestal or an inspirational figure... I don't do that... hes just my favorite entertainer.

I shouldn't have cursed at you.. my apologies. The posters here who continue to insult people and speak about other posters... I don't care for.. I shouldn't have done it myself.. caught me at a bad moment.

it was rude of me to single you out like that. i didnt think about it when i initially posted. i realized it later. thanks for being the bigger man! i admire that. sorry about that!

The genesis of a lot of disagreements around here, I find.  Just coming at things from WAY different places.

But props to you both for squashing it.

I remember in 1993 when i first got introduced to guns n roses when a friend of mine showed me the November Rain video. I was hooked from there on little did I know at that time that the band I was absolutely hooked on was falling apart. I remember constantly going to music stores and looking at hit parader magazine or rolling stone in hopes of getting some kind of news that my band was doing something year after year of alleged rumors nothing ever happening until 1999 i think it was when the end of days soundtrack came out and then in 2001 I was fortunate enough to finally get to see GNR live at Madison Square Garden just before that tour fell apart but i finally got to see them and while i would have loved for it to have been the original band i was extremely happy just to say i got to see GNR live i don't get caught up on who is or isn't GNR then i got to see them again at roseland ballroom in i believe it was 2012 so i have gotten to see them twice and actually got to be around when an actual album of original material came out in 2008. I don't know what the future holds for this band whether its the old guard coming back or not I want new music i don't care if its new guys or old guys who makes it as long as axl is singing because once the music hits stores or now the internet its forever out there for us to enjoy and thats why i think people want new music so bad so heres to hoping something happens when it will i have no idea.

Someone was saying GN'R has been "dead in the states since '94"....I disagree.
In 1993 they were selling out arenas in the U.S. In January 1995, despite being largely inactive for a year and a half, their cover of Sympathy for the Devil, which was tacked on a soundtrack, little promotion and no video, hit #55 on the Billboard Hot 100. That charted higher than the following songs:

Since I Don't Have You (peak position #69 as of March 19th, 1994)
Yesterdays (peak position #72 as of November 28th, 1992)
Nightrain (peak position #93 as of August 5th, 1989)

GN'R have had six hits break within the Top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100:

Sweet Child O' Mine (hit #1 on July 30th, 1988 and again on September 10th, 1988)

Welcome to the Jungle (hit #7 on December 24th 1988)

Paradise City (hit #5 on March 11th, 1989)

Patience (hit #4 on June 3rd, 1989)

Don't Cry (hit #10 on November 16th, 1991)

November Rain (hit #3 on August 29th, 1992)

November Rain was also their only hit on the Top 40 charts.

I guess dead bands have their albums go platinum, which is considered a failure by some.

It's all in the eye of the beholder I'm afraid.



/jarmo

And you think this refutes that point, in the context it was brought up?

Because the rest of that post that started out with that premise, a post that was fairly detailed as I recall, went on to talk about GNR's perception since the relaunch.  In 2001.

Do you honestly think his point was wrong because he didn't take into account they were still relevant a mere one year later?  Or that relevance is defined by a sound from a soundtrack hitting #55 on the charts, which is a whole other argument anyway?  Do you think that's where he was going with that?

Seems like a stretch.  Moreover, it seems like you are being intentionally obtuse about the point he was making.

GNR is obviously more supported in South America, it's defiantly not dead in United States

What is your definition of "definitely not dead"?

I'd define dead in this case as over, done, finis- not the dictionary definition but it's fitting.

GNR isn't dead  :peace:

Ah, I see.

So, by this rationale, Skid Row and Great White are both still alive and well here in the U.S.

Haha, keep on telling yourself whatever you need to.

You are wrong in most of your posts. :D

No disrespect to those bands, but they were never in the same league as GNR.

This isn't really an answer, I'm afraid.

By your rationale, Skid Row and Great White are alive and well here in the U.S.  How are they not?  They are both still around, which, you tell me is all that's needed to confirm viability.

This is the pitfall about getting your back up about a subjective figurative argument.  Then trying to refute it with a concrete literal one.  You find yourself in the unenviable position of having to defend some pretty ridiculous arguments that use your same flawed premise.

Emotion can get the better you sometime, I realize.  But you always want to try and think a few steps ahead about what you fire back with in response to your feelings being hurt.

Otherwise, your only play is to duck any hard questions about an argument you yourself put forth, and just respond with "You're so wrong, LOLZ".

Not even a little bit.  But by Emily's "logic", they are alive and well.

That's all this is about.

You and Cherry Garcia can go into depth discussing his idiot bait.

There are No "hard questions" presented here.

I'm sure you can operate Google and check out the definition of Dead.

GNR is not Dead- period. :D

Wrong, not my fault you have comprehension issues.

This isn't "about" anything and I won't even discuss this asanine premise, this is just you grasping at yet another attempt to try and paint GNR in some negative light and try to appear clever in the process.

GNR isn't "dead"-- period. Non-negotiable point.

Well, I'm not really going to go 12 rounds with someone lacking the courage to defend their own argument, even given 2 cracks to do so.

Perhaps if you go see The Wizard, we can revisit.

It doesn't take courage to tell an idiot their point isn't valid. :D

Ridiculous.

You go "visit the wizard" and ask for some new material.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, here it is.

Maybe you and Cherry Garcia can have some deep and meaningful dialogue about his bait.

GNR is not Dead, stupid premise.

Yeah, maybe.  Would still like to bring you in for a consult though.

You be around later?

Not for that convo, unless I have a lobotomy between now and then.

Elphaba here. There is no need to defend an argument when somebody is stating facts. Oh you probably don't know that Elphaba is the green girl from WICKED and she is a hell of a lot more powerful than The Wizard.
GNR is not dead. Only a great band like GNR could garner so much attention just based on rumor and speculation.
The GNR legacy is so much more than a name.

Hahahaha

You are correct, I did not know that.



Not sure I'd go quite to this extreme.  If Robert Plant finally gave in and agreed to do a Led Zep tour, it would be the biggest thing going.

Would definitely be up for a Zep reunion tour anywhere at any price.

Same here.  Same everywhere, I assume.

That's a true blue stadium tour, even here in the U.S.

How about an Appetite lineup co headlining tour with Plant/Page and Jones?

Think that would sell some seats?

So, GN'R is dead and a failure. What does that make Skid Row or any bands that don't have their last albums go platinum, headline festivals or generate headlines worldwide as soon as something happens (or in some case, doesn't)?
Trying to follow the logic here.



/jarmo

I?m not sure if these responses are to my post or someone else?s, but when I said GN?R was dead by ?94, I basically meant artistically.
Self inflicted. They essentially went into hiding, and were out of sight out of mind. Although popular music started drastically deteriorating in the mid to late nineties, there was still enough going on in ?93,?94 to fill the void, to an extent, of new GN?R material( not necessarily for us, but for most people).

Had they managed to hash out their differences and released new material, I have no doubt they would have found continued success.

But obviously that didn?t happen.
They went their own ways, and fans reluctantly moved on.

Chinese Democracy was highly anticipated for many reasons.
Being billed as a Guns N? Roses record, despite the overhaul in personnel, obviously being the biggest.
The hype was in large part built on the backs of members long gone.
"Guns N? Roses" was coming out of hiding.

Personnel means a great deal to a lot of fans, whether they know the players? by name or not.
It?s a rarity to find them as disposable as some do on this board.

Axl Rose obviously has his share of fans, but an Axl solo record, or new project by Axl and everyone you?ve never heard of doesn?t generate a fraction of the hype that Chinese Democracy did without the GN?R moniker.
Not many, outside of maybe their mothers were on the edge of their seats anticipating the synth work of Chris Pitman, or guitar of Robin Finck.

An album billed as the long awaited return of Guns N? Roses is pretty good bait for the casual fan.
I?m sure there are plenty of people that enjoyed what they heard, though I have yet to meet any of them.

Guns N? Roses is a huge name. Has been since AFD broke. There?s no un ringing that bell.
So while GN?R are far removed from their prime, Axl?s past success he achieved with Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven as Guns N? Roses still affords him the luxury of considerable fan interest in what he does moving forward.

Axl could hire a bunch of barn yard animals to round out the band and it?ll still create a buzz due to the GN?R moniker.
Tupac for instance has released 7 platinum records from the cozy confines of 6 feet underground.

Your assumption seems to be based on the false notion that nobody cares about Axl Rose.

Obviously people were interested in hearing/seeing what Axl had produced and how it would sound. Are you kidding me? After all those silent years.
No matter if you call it GN'R or not. Not saying anything about whether or not the GN'R name helped or didn't.

Just pointing out that some of you have such a hard time admitting the fact that Axl Rose is still interesting to a lot of people.



/jarmo

No, I am not saying that.
Obviously people are very interested in Axl Rose. That?s not even up for debate.

Most people just happen to be more interested in Axl Rose when he is associated with Slash and the rest of the AFD-UYI alumni.
People whom are deeply embedded in the GN?R name.

That?s not a knock, it?s just reality.

People are interested in Slash, but more so when associated with Axl.

This is not exclusive to GN?R by any means.

That's why the reunion talk has existed for the last 20 years.

I don't know if I'd say they're more interested in Axl when he's associated with Slash, maybe GN'R.

It's a bit tricky to explain. Axl and GN'R are closely associated since day one of the band's history. People associate one with the other.
But, even when GN'R isn't doing anything, people still have a fascination with Axl and an interest in him. Yes, it's because he's in GN'R and because everything that band has achieved.

Look at everything that's been written about him between now and the day Slash quit. It's a lot. They didn't stop just because those two weren't in the same band anymore.



/jarmo

Axl certainly has one of the biggest names out there. Had he strategically marketed himself such as Slash started doing in the late 90s, I think he could have had an even bigger solo career than Slash. Naturally he didn't have to do that since he marched on under the GNR banner.

there was no need for Axl to market himself as a solo act. Slash chose to leave GNR and Axl was the last man standing. So Axl has every right to keep the GNR name and brand going.

Yes, that's what I said.

But if he had done it, he would have stood strong on his own because he has a big name in music.

No. Guns N' Roses fans have only had it that good.
We have albums we can purchase in multiple formats, we have videos, DVDs, a Blu Ray, we've had tours that have happened all over the world, with various size shows, we've had residencies providing much opportunity to see our favorite band...
Comparing Guns to other bands for either praise or condemnation is understandable but undoubtedly and absolutely unfair. Doing that places unnecessary and unjust expectations on the band which can then only lead to false hope and disappointment. Comparisons and expectations stem from a sense of spoiled entitlement and to doubt their origins is to be in utter denial.
Thinking hard about how we as fans have it is also unneeded. The thinking is easy. Needing help with this is an indication of self-centered laziness.
We have had and still will have Guns N' Roses and everything that they are about.

Well really, Axl left the guns n roses partnership far before    Shower chose not to be a part of Axl new guns n roses agreement

I think Axl has had every right to use the name.  He owns it so of coarse he has had every right.   I also think he has been very successful in touring the past 10 years

If Axl was to market himself as a solo act it would of forced him to produce and release a lot more of his own music. 

Would he only perform his own original music? 

He has said in interviews that a Axl Rose solo album wouldn't sound like anything gnr. 

So one would think a Axl Rose solo concert wouldn't sound anything like a Guns N Roses concert.   

So then would he be as successful?   I am not too sure. I have never heard a Axl solo song and a Axl solo live performance

Would he be able to release albums of original material and tour supporting it?   I am not too sure.  He has only been able to release one studio album with the name gun n roses since h has had name ownership.    So should of expected more solo albums?   Mb it would of been easier to release solo albums.  Mb one of the song la would of become a radio hit and the albums would of sold  huge

The more I think about it.  As big of a star as Axl is.   His solo act would never of been as big as him at these of this guns n roses

Oh, I never said he could have been as big as the Guns N Roses brand. But with the premise that he marketed himself just as much as Slash has done in the past 20 years, I think he would've wound up with the bigger name of the two of them. The music might have been different, but it would still be Axl writing and performing it, I trust it would have been good.

To be clear, I fully support that Axl went on with the Guns N Roses name, he would be foolish not to do that. This was just a hypothetical situation were Axl would have to go solo after 1996.

It's tough to compare front man and guitar player.

Not only did Slash not have the GNR name to march out there.. he's also not the "voice" which is why he was always very present in the media pushing his brand.

Slash has been in many band and released tons of music since he decided not to be in guns any more.   He was on countless late night interview shows and has given countless interviews.   He has released books and video games.   Has been touring straight for the past 20 years

All this has helped established his brand

Now Axl has toured lots in the past 10 years.   He also released one studio album.   

There is no way given his track record you could think he as a solo act would be a successful as slash

No with what we have seen.   

Axl would have totally had to change the way he does things and what he has produced the past little bit

Beat me to it.  I was actually typing this very same opinion but you posted first.

I seriously doubt that Axl himself would've changed or done anything differently on the mere basis of a name difference.  If anything, Axl might even be more ridiculed than he is now if he presented himself as a solo act and didn't have the GNR name to duck behind.  There is no doubt that using the GNR name has helped Axl retain any remaining credibility over the years.  Either way, Slash definitely has more credibility in terms of output and consistency, regardless of whatever opinions exist on the actual music itself.

Reading not confirmed? Sad

Yeah we have it hard rn

yeah i never understood how a fan can think they have it bad. imagine fans of a painter... he paints pictures, youre a fan of them. then he doesnt paint pictures for a while and some of his fans think they have it bad.

why feel like you have it bad over the hypothetical pictures he didnt paint or hasnt yet painted? why not just enjoy what he did paint? even if he tells you hes working on another one,  no need to feel like you have it bad because hes taking his time. when he comes around you appreciate him, and when hes not around, no need to feel like you have it bad.

plenty of other pictures to look at out there. its not like he has control over the art world and prevents you from looking at other pictures or makes you wait for his. i think any kind of "have it bad" wound can only be self inflicted.

as ive said before, self pity is a very curious thing. before anyone gets defensive about that statement, try and see for yourself what self pity is and be honest about whether or not it plays some role in this "i have it bad" thing. doesnt it have little to do with the painter himself and more to do with the mindset of the people that harbor those kinds of sentiments?

Agree 100% here.

Its tough as hell being the star of the show as the lead guitarist that does not sing.  Very tough spot.  Lot of work required.

And then you pretty much have to let another guy take center stage, even though yours is the name you are all are touring under.  

This pretty well written and good points made.

Interesting about the "having it bad" part being self inflicted.  You're right, I think.  Its only us that tell ourselves it could be better.  And if we did not ask those questions, we would not then have to deal with all the hand wringing that follows.  Can be argued we are making our own problems.

Good post, rj.

thank you  :)

He could've gone solo and still be big. Using GNRS name was not a reason he used to continue his career, he just thought it was right because it's his band.

I think GNR from 1997-2015 has been bigger than slash. Slash could release as many albums as he wants, in my opinion they will never be as great as Chinese democracy or anything Axl has written.

Think about it.

What's easier to replace, the vocals or lead guitar, even buckethead was replaceable. There is 15 year old kids who can perfectly play those songs, it's not hard. Very little actually sound like Axl though.

Retaining the name opens a lot of doors for Axl.

It's why he was smart to keep it, and the others are morons for signing it away.  I will NEVER understand that.

Oh yeah.  Replacing the singer is a bitch.

Axl has always had the upper hand in that sense.  It can be GNR without Slash, but can't ever be GNR with no Axl.

even if you got a guy that sounded like him... say you threw juan the beast up there. even then, you could never come close to his personality or stage presence. id say theres no one out there quite like axl. hes really a special dude in that sense. not to mention his song crafting prowess is out of this world.

 i would like to see what kind of music he would write not for gnr, but for something else someday. i really hope something like that eventually comes along. something he could go out and do without all the expectations and other strings attached.

you could argue that guns became his solo act anyway, but i think theres something to the pov that his solo stuff would be a lot different, at least according to himself. id also love to see him do some light hearted song about marijuana with willy nelson or something. something where he gets to show off his sense of humor a little more.

Is anybody else surprised by this miracle? The name discussion is back.  :rofl:



/jarmo
 

I think people are misunderstanding what I am saying here...


I was always talking about a hypothetical situation were Axl went solo in 1996, just as Slash.

If then Axl had done the same amount of self marketing as Slash actually did, I think he would have had a bigger name than Slash has today.


None of this is based on any actual track record that Axl has doing promotion...



I was just using the above example to illustrate that I think Axl Rose has a big name in music.

Sure. 

If Axl went solo

Did everything the exact same as slash.

There is no reason to think we wouldn't of been as successful as slash....

would Axl ever be capable of that?   

Please, please, please give us something else to talk about.  : ok:

There's plenty of other topics available.... :)

But it seems like they all turn into the same topics at some point.  :hihi:

 


/jarmo

I think GN'R was a presence in the states until 2006. I honestly think Axl/the camp kept people waiting too long and a majority of the fans in the U.S. lost interest or moved on after 2007 or so. 2002 was a huge blow to the whole idea of a "new Guns N' Roses", though. I remember back then having to basically explain away Axl's bizarre appearance, his voice and then finally the 2002 tour cancellation to people. My sister, who was a HUGE fan in the 80s and 90s, she was like, 'What happened to him?' after seeing the VMAs. And then after Philly, she was telling me how lucky I was that he showed at the MSG gig I was at the day before. She had stopped caring for the most part in the late 90s, but stopped caring completely after 2002. I imagine she wasn't the only old school fan of the same mindset.

I still think new GN'R could sell out arenas in select markets in the US (MSG, for example). But I don't think they're an arena act nationally anymore. Each tour, 2002, 2006 and onward saw declining numbers. IIRC, the last show I was at (Hammerstein 2006) wasn't sold out and that was a ballroom.

All the Hammerstein shows were sold out and they were EPIC! So grateful that I got to go and see Izzy on stage. Axl's appearance was not bizarre. What is bizarre is that you need to keep making these same mean spirited comments.

No.   If you are a Guns N' Roses fan, its because you enjoy the music from at least one of the eras and nothing can take that away.

I saw this over the weekend and it made me think of this thread.  Bruce Springsteen just announced a 2016 tour.  From his website (http://brucespringsteen.net/) it notes that ?each night of the tour will be mixed for release as high-quality downloads or CDs.?  That?s something that?s unfathomable as a GnR fan?here we are debating which hypothetical concerts we?d like to hear.  The Boss? site also has a new 4 CD/3 DVD box set collection?again, things we only dream about and which (may or may not) exist in The Vault.

Why can?t we have these things?  No clue.  Clearly, it can be done, but for whatever reason, it?s an impossible feat here.

So, do we have it bad?  No, but others have it a lot better.

I think I can help you out a little. Not so long ago I read that The Boss signed a new contract with his record company. Besides a big amount of money the deal was about making CDs, DVDs and box set collection. That?s why he is doing it. It is in his contract.

When it comes to GN?R we don?t know anything about the kind of contract Axl has. If there is such a contract to begin with. As for the old band contract with Geffen, all I know is it was for 6 albums. That?s what Duff says in his book.

Yes, and when was it recorded?
Those Springsteen fans waited a while to get those The River outtakes didn't they?  ;)



/jarmo