Here Today... Gone To Hell!

So, looking at the numbers Adele is producing after her latest release... 2.3 million records sold in three days in the US!

The album is not available for streaming mind you. Does this prove there's still a market for selling records the old fashioned way, or is it only the really, really big artists who can possible survive?

Would it be a smart move of Axl to force people to buy the record by not putting it up for streaming? Or do you think it's too risky, not being quite sure how high the popularity of GNR is, it might backfire and end up with no streaming income plus low selling numbers for a physical release. Putting it up for streaming later on, after losing the momentum of an album being new, could result in less total income than if the album had been available from the get-go.


Thinking of it, was Chinese Democracy the first album to suffer from streaming? Spotify had just been introduced the month before CD came out, but the consumer mass was very small ? virtually nonexistent. But, Chinese Democracy was made available for free on myspace days before the release, did it hurt the sales significantly? Maybe.

Do you think Adele would have seen the same sales numbers if the album was available at the streaming services?

I think Axl's situation was unique last time around, and the streaming hurt.

He was coming back after 15 years with a totally new band and a totally new sound.

But by streaming, you could take a free listen to see if you dug it.  You didn't have to take a risk and pay for it to find out if all his changes worked for you.

There was also the whole hoo-ha with Best Buy and some rather... suboptimal promotional efforts all round.

I think it's a matter of figuring out who your audience is and where they get their fix (music). If a majority of your fans are using streaming services, it makes sense to put the music there. Instead of trying to force them to go find a store or order it online...

It's possible Adele's core audience is people who do their shopping at Walmart and picked up her album while buying stuff like toilet paper. I really don't know...





/jarmo

This is what I meant with the remark that only the really, really big artist can allow themselves to avoid streaming.

Adele's fan base is probably so huge and so diverse that even if she loses a great deal of potential listeners, the remaining people who actually buys the album forms such a big group that she earns a great deal of money doing it this way.

The question is: Is GNR a big enough act to do it this way and make a good profit?

I don't think it's necessarily a case about big or not. It's more about where and how. I think.

U2 is one of the biggest bands on the planet. Look what they did.
I'm sure they figured that most of their fans use Apple products and therefore would get their music for free plus everybody else would get it as well...





/jarmo

Adele (who I like) is one of the 5 biggest musical acts in the world right now no?

Hard to compare.

I'm not suggesting GNR will hit the same sales numbers, but it's rather the principle. When comparing streaming/no streaming ? would GNR gain from avoiding streaming?

Fair enough.

I would think avoiding it would be better... but I don't know the business well enough to give an educated guess.

I don't doubt the potential of GnR's ability to sale stuff,  but it needs to have a joined up marketing plan.

In the UK Jeff Lynne's ELO whole tour sold out in 10 minutes, promoted by New Album, but more importantly, doing niche shows on the  TV networks, BBC have Done Adele, U2, Coldplay to just name 3 acts. The but here is TB really need to get Axl and the rest of the team to work their butts off on a seven day blitz, where everywhere you turn you just see GnR's....  : ok:

Having never been to the USA I'd imagine that's how it works there also

Gnr was pretty big coming back in 2001

Well if I remember correctly the album came out 7 years after that...

and at no time since 1994 are they as big a draw as Adele is right now.

Well, that's the trick, isn't it?  The bit in bold.

Axl cut off communication with the label months before the album came out.  So going from that, to a guy willing to really bust his ass with glad handing and press seems like one herculean leap.

I don't know how feasible that all it, even theoretically.

In the case of Adele I don?t think streaming has anything to do with it. The way I see it Adele is a breath of fresh air in Pop music. She is far from being another Miley Cyrus or Lady Gaga. I guess that why a lot of people  like her. She is showing that Pop music can be done in a different way. And that other way to do things is capable to produce huge sales numbers.

Do you think the sales numbers would have been pretty much the same if the album was available on Spotify and Tidal?

I'm thinking the sales numbers would have been way down, but the corresponding streaming numbers would have been very high. The result might be less income for the artist even though more people are listening to the album.

In my family, the people that like Adele are all late 30s through to their 70s. None of my younger relatives like Adele bar one.

I am guessing that alot of the listeners are not into streaming or downloading. Plus the sales are inflated because Christmas is around the corner.

So the demographic is the main factor you think?

What about GNR then, what's the mean age of the fans?

More's the point what is the age of the Mean fans  :rofl: 

GN'R has a lot of younger fans.
It's a lot more mixed than what some think, I suspect.



/jarmo

Oh, I'm 38.

Spotify - Itunes - Streaming

I Believe Good Idea

Hmm.
It will be interesting to see who the dominant players are when GN'R's next album comes out.
Will Spotify still be a leader?
Who will be on top 5, 10 or 15 years from now?

Compact Disc & Cassette Is Dead

 :'(

Only Alive Vinyl

Savvy people always find a way to get a listen in before parting with cash.

For any release from Guns, if it wants to move serious numbers, there needs to be a radio hit in my opinion.

if its more of the same as CD... it wont matter which way its released, the numbers will be the same.

I disagree.

I think you could have gotten 'Better' and 'Street Of Dreams' in radio rotation.  I'm not suggesting either could have been big hits, but the band name is still big enough you could have gotten that established as songs people knew.

But it wasn't going to happen by magic.  If anything, it was going to take even more of a yeoman effort to get this new material over, not less.

Digital Download + Full Marketing

U2 didn't take money when they promoted the iPod because they had a custom player with their back catalog on it. This time around they rolled out the album on different formats including Spotify but gave Apple first dibs. They did take the check from Apple this time.

I think Guns would have to create a buzz if they wanted to go in the no streaming direction. Adele is arguably the most popular artist in the world right now so her followers would go out and spend money to hear new material. Not sure the demand is there right now on a wider scale for a Guns N Roses album. They would have to go out and make some noise. Reintroduce themselves to the world per se.

Im a old school gunner. I dont like Spotify... Apple stuff, or buying mp3 for 1 buck. I love the CD and the vinyl.

Love torrent too. Download Flac files and listen that in the hometeather. I hope we can get a 9.1... or a least 5.1 audio for the most hungry ears around here.

Bluray audio is a good alternative option.

I've never used ITunes, Spotify etc. I still buy physical copies of my music, weird huh?

I do both. Spotify is a genius option to discover new music while still supporting the artist (a little bit at least).

But still... CD, SACD and vinyl gives a far superior sound quality.

New Tools For Sales Music Today Is:

M4a
MP3
ITUNES
BLURAY
SPOTIFY
STREAMING

GNR This With All That Now

 :smoking:

People forget though that in the US, CD was a Best Buy exclusive. Meaning if you where from some butt-hole town that didn't have a BB then you basically couldn't get the album.
If CD had of been released the normal way, via standard music retailers as well as iTunes ect it would have hit really big numbers!

Chinese sold like 250,000 copies in its first week, people say that was disappointing. Foo Fighters newest sold less in its first week and its called a raving success.

I believe it was available on iTunes from day one.
But you're right, the only physical copies were sold at Best Buy. And even then, depending on the store, they weren't really using the exclusive to their advantage.

I went to one store and they had a big display for the latest Will Smith DVD as you walked in. The GN'R display you had to go look for....
While another store had GN'R displayed by the entrance as you'd expect.



/jarmo

I didn't forget about the best buy exclusive. I'm just saying that streaming the album for free was very likely a big factor on the sales as well. Maybe bigger even, you still could order the album on best buy's website...

And today, streaming is a huge factor on sales. I think the Adele release sort of proves that. I'm just spitballing here, but I think it's realistic to say you could cut Adele's sales in half if the album had been available on Spotify from day 1. Sales would still have been massive, but that's due the nature of her giant fanbase.

Since streaming has pretty much taken over for torrents, today people seem to choose to buy the album instead of torrent it if streaming it is not an option. Very few people uses torrents for movies and music any more.

Yes, it was available on iTunes as well, US fans had more trouble finding a stockist than European, Asian and South American countries.
I bought my copy the day it came out in Xtra-vision, Donegal Ireland and there was a full wall dedicated to CD. It debut at No. 3 on the charts here i believe.

True.
Nobody seems to remember the number of streams on MySpace that the album got. The focus is on the sales numbers alone.




/jarmo

I'm almost positive that you could have ordered CD online at bestbuy.com and had it shipped to you anywhere in the USA for day-of-release delivery.

I know I've said it a gazzillion billion times before but I loved, loved, loved the Best Buy deal.  When CD was originally listed online at bestbuy.com, it was listed something like "Vinyl A, Disc Aa, Vinyl B, Disc Bb, Vinyl C, Disc Cc".
When versions B, Bb & C, Cc were taken down, BestBuy customer service sent me email notifications along with best buy coupons valued at the full price for each copy of every version I ordered.  If I remember correctly, I had ordered six copies of each of the six versions listed online.  Mind you, my credit card was not charged for the versions/copies I was able to purchase until I picked them up in the store.  Best Deal Ever!!!!  ;D

Great!

I remember when those different copies were listed, I almost ordered but went and picked my copies up instead.