Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Happy birthday to the release of CD, 7 years ago!!

Time certainly flies! I saw the TWILIGHT movie for the first time on the very same day! :hihi: Still love to play it in my car although I don't drive to work anymore so I don't spend much time driving. But it is on my iphone ! :love: TIL still my fav.

Also, I know that buckethead probably doesn't give a shit about CD or anything GNR, but he did rock on the album.

I remember driving to Best Buy with my friend and bought it on CD & Vinyl.  We sat in our cars and read the booklet before even listening to it.

Time flies, eh?  I remember getting it on the day, and then going round to visit my then-girlfriend, who had already been out to buy a copy for me.

There's some really stellar work on that album.  Some that's less good as well, but it holds up as album, and I certainly listen to it far more often than the older GNR albums these days. 

i was so excited that day that i sprained my ankle from jumping around like a maniac.

I took about a year of from listening to CD in the car and have been doing my eclectic stuff instead, Prodigy, FFS, The Adventures etc

Yesterday CD went back in the player and wow, a ten minute trip ended up being a two and half hour drive (on an island with 60miles of coastline takes some doing)  :hihi:

Unless another drop happens guess this baby is gonna be in the player for the foreseeable future. :beer:

Bought it at midnight from a gas station as the record stores were closed 8)

Awesome memories, I still remember that the first song I've ever heard from CD when I walked in through the shop was Sorry and it blew my mind.

I was really looking forward for years, waiting for the release , I think the incredible songs , but half had already been leaked , and when the album finally saw the light of day I saw the darkness . Axl should have released a double album , but still imagined that the next album would be released in two or three years later, but I was wrong . The song I like most is Madagascar and TWAT , have hip hop beats and a little bit of Led Zeppelin.

Best part of it, I think.  Shame that didn't work out.

Although my enthusiasm for the album has certainly decreased over the last 7 years it was a very very exciting time.  I went with my then gf (and now wife) to pick up the vinyl and CD at Best Buy.  We had bought 4 bottles of Nightrain from a liquor store on Delancey street in NYC (which has since shuttered) to drink while listening to it that night.  Needless to say I took off the next day at work....

As for the album itself, because it had mostly leaked I actually downloaded the songs in case Axl or anybody was able to stop the release of the album.  If that happened I was going to listen to the tracks I had downloaded.  Luckily I didn't need to do that!  I definitely liked the album at the time of the release, but the more I've listened to it the more disappointed I've become with it.  I still think that TWAT is the standalone track on that album.  It is the one song I continuously come back to unlike the rest of the material.  I also like Madagascar and IRS, but outside of those tracks I just don't think its a solid album. 

Good idea!
 :hihi:




/jarmo

Seven years and no follow up, Come on Axl!

I still maintain that Klosterman wrote the best CD review for the AV Club:

http://www.avclub.com/review/chuck-klosterman-reviews-chinese-democracy-2539

It is a great review.

my favorite review...Rolling Stone.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/chinese-democracy-20081127

A lot of reviews were positive.

Yet many fans perpetuate the myth that people shit on it and didn't give Axl a chance.  Really not the case.

Seven years and no follow up YET, key word there.

I like the sound of that!!!

You could have been Harper Lee's agent.

7 years... my god, time flies!
I will be sincere here. Of course I wanna hear new songs, new album, see the band on tour, AFD or UYI line-up again, etc... but what I really wanna see is an Axl Biography. I think this will explain a lot of things

The hype is always real downloading or driving to a CD store to buy a new album. Let alone a GN'R album. Makes me excited for the next one!

Jarmo do you think we will hear the follow up to CD in the next year?

i personally have encountered many people (in america) that did not give it a chance. not only because they disapprove of axl continuing on without slash, but also because it sounds too different from their earlier releases. i have met many people that do not like it (in my opinion most of these people have never even heard it and that becomes pretty evident when discussing it with them), and never met a person that loved it before i got them into it.

What I don't get is that when a album doesn't sound like their other albums, that must mean it's bad... Every band has one

Oh, people out there?  In the world?

I 100% agree.  I ran into the same thing with, um...everyone I know.  Fans of the band.  Didn't find one taker.

But the press, I have to say, were much more even handed than I expected.  They did tend to review it on its merits and not stop right at "Wait, where is Slash?  Then fuck this noise."  The odd joke about how the absurd delay, but they gave the music a shot.

Most people were not that accommodating. 

and let's be honest, most people are idiots or just less than casual music fans who really don't give a shit one way or the other about Axl Rose. I don't spend too much time wishing Dave Grohl still played drums.

And I don't go to Foo Fighter forums to complain he doesn't play drums anymore either.

I got it one day earlier than the Europe release as my colleague was coming from the States the day before.  I finished work, went home to the family and by the time my son was going to bed, I said goodbye and drove out of town and headed to the country side while listening to the record.  I drove about 100 km that night.

I still remember running out to Best Buy and purchasing 30 copies for me and Christnas gifts as friends!   My TWIHARD friends and I were all totally obsessed with This I Love!!

True.

But suppose Dave replaced every single member of his band and still billed them as Foo Fighters.  If there were a segment of their fans that was going to claim legit surprise that people took some issue with it, they would be as disingenuous as the ones that do it amongst our fanbase.

I bought several friends a copy so they could experience it as well, and I gave out the album as Xmas gifts to many that year.

I've heard some people cop to making copies to distribute, but that just seemed illegal to me.

Apparently that's how you support the band you love. :D




/jarmo

Ha! Nothing says support like Piracy  :hihi:

Well, maybe these "people" wanted others to hear it and knew damn well they were never going to buy it themselves.

And maybe these "people" assumed (correctly, it turned out) that people were going to use it as a coaster after one listen, if they even gave it that.

So I don't think you can fault "people" for not spending a bunch of money on a lost cause.  Maybe these "people" thought if even one person got into it, it was a worthwhile endeavor.

But "people" didn't even find one taker.  Not a one.  Looks like "people" made the right call.

Struck a nerve there eh?

There is no excuse for Piracy, it is theft- pure and simple- it is not the way to support a band you claim to care about.

Me (oh, sorry...I mean "people") buying 10 copies of an album for folks I can't even guarantee will even give it a listen is a foolish cause and a waste of money.

And I'm not sure anyone that did buy 10 copies and hand them out as gifts is going to be getting some lifetime achievement award for band support.

You know, lost in all this sudden concern about piracy...how did you do with your gifts?  Lot of converts?

Buying Albums is a "foolish cause" and "waste of money" ?? What kind of entitlement issues are you harboring?

I'm sure a lot of people who steal things try to justify it as well and try to excuse their behavior.

Not trying to "convert" anyone, merely sharing music LEGALLY from my favorite band.

And what were the fruits of that endeavor?  Good feedback?  People dig it?

Yes, very favorable- My circle of friends has good taste in music and appreciated the album.

Well, you had better luck than I did.

The best I did were a few that liked certain tracks like 'Better', 'Street Of Dreams', 'I.R.S.'.  They got the best feedback.

Maybe the copies you Pirated were inferior to the real product.

Hahahaha 

See, now that's funny.  I love a good callback joke.  Well played.

No matter how much one tries to spin it, that's still stealing from the band.
Yes it happens, I'm not naive. But to try to spin it any other way, is just another lame excuse for doing the opposite of what you say..... Not the first time. Or last.




/jarmo

Wouldn't it have been legal to share a link to the MySpace stream of the whole album?  Could have saved you a few pennies.    : ok:

You didn't read the part about me giving a few out at Xmas?  It wouldn't have been up at that time, and I'm not about to Pirate and Steal from my favorite band, that is not acceptable at any level.

My friends and GNR are both well worth the money I spent.

You couldn't download it though, right?

I was never on MySpace, so I have no idea.

It was streaming on Myspace.


Nowadays you got Apple Music, Spotify and other legal services where you can share your favorite tracks. If you don't feel like buying the music.




/jarmo

I had several friends fall in love with This I Love.  And I pissed off a lot of people on this forum thinking it should have been featured in one of the TWILIGHT sequels  :hihi:

That one bombed with my crowd.  From Dad (the first person I played the album for) right on through everyone else.

Heard it all.  Andrew Lloyd Webber arrangement, juvenile lyrics, etc.

Even I, myself, waver on what I think of it.

How were the lyrics "Juvenile" ??

I wouldn't say they're juvenile, but I think the repeated rhymes on the long i sound a bit contrived.  I like the music on that song; the lyrics, not so much.

It's one that I think works better in the context of the album than it does as a stand-alone song.  It helps get the pacing of the album right as it gets towards the end, and it leads very well into Prostitute - which is a magnificent song, and one of the best songs Guns N' Roses have done, in my opinion.

Yay! Somebody else agrees on the greatness of this track!



/jarmo

Yes. If you don't care for the song that's ok.  But I don't know how you can call
Such haunting lyrics juvenile.   I think the song was brilliant.  Music of the night meets
November Rain and Estranged. 

He sounded like a heartbroken teenager trying to be deep.

Awesome track.  Amazing vocals.

Really killed it in Vegas at that last show, second to last show.  Whichever it was.  Great clip.

Every time it was played, it was a treat. But bringing it back last year was special.



/jarmo

And I can see why its not a nightly staple.  Its a bitch to try and sing.

It was great. I like there was a time more but it comes close.

Its in the same ballpark as estranged, don't cry, this I love, November Rain.

2 most impressive songs of the 14, I think.

I agree, even the musical composition by itself is brilliant as well, the song is truly a masterpiece.  :beer:

I don't mean to be rude but you have obviously never known great love.  And this love doesn't necessarily have to be romantic.  The song is very deep.  You can hear it in Axls voice.  Was so awesome to hear it performed at the Golden Gods.

Yeah, I'm just not a guy that ever considers whole bands or individual songs to be downright religious experiences.

When I hear people talk about how a song moved them to tears, or how they feel a deep connection with some band that helped them get up in the mornings...I have to be honest, I pretty much roll my eyes.

I love 'Estranged', for example.  But its because I love Slash's guitar work and I think Axl wrote some great lyrics and delivered them in a fine vocal.  Yet I have heard fans wax downright poetic about how the song changed their lives or some such.

If that works for you, hey, great.  I just can't really relate on that level because a song is just a song to me.  I either like it or I don't.  I don't really get wrapped up in the spiritual journey of it all.

Estranged is my fav Gnr song...hands down....TIL is great because it shows Axl's depth as an artist.....on one hand he is Johnny Rotten, on another hand he is Freddie Mercury, on another hand he is Steven Tyler...then there is TIL...don't really know what that is but it certainly shows Axl has balls and isn't afraid to show his vulnerability.

I like this I love. If I could change anything, I would change Axl hitting the high notes, it should just be like his talking voice or voice he uses on its so easy/brownstone for example. Which he does use throughout most the song. Also I'd put more drums and guitar. Lyrics rock, horns rock, piano rocks... Awesome

Totally agree with that.  I think the verses sound way better than the chorus.

Yeah. That's one of the cool things about him. He's not in one particular box or confined to one genre.
It's never boring. :)


/jarmo

No doubt about that.  He can never be pigeon-holed into one type of sound/style...just look at how many people freak out when you try to say GnR is hair metal.  There are elements of everything (rock, hair metal (gasp), blues, industrial, etc.), and he has the ability to pull them all off at an incredible high rate.  I can think of no other performer that can (successfully) straddle as many styles as he does.  That's why my hopes are still up that we'll get to hear CDII someday.  It'd be great to hear that range on a bunch of new songs.

Spotify Add:

- CHINESE DEMOCRACY - VERSION 1 -

 :confused:

Iv been listening to CD a lot lately after years of not listening to it at all and Iv been enjoying it more than ever. I relate to the songs differently from seven years ago.  I hope we get CD2 at some point.

Was Axl working on new music for a follow up when Chinese Democracy was released and just decided to shelve it once CD dropped off the charts, or was he trying to get Robin's replacement? It's weird that he didn't want to be seen at the time. I guess he was practically living in the studio trying to get all those songs out, but didn't pan out the way he wanted.

Certainly since 2012 or so, the chance of ever hearing the rest of CD seems to have stopped getting closer and started going the other way. Just seems like Axl lost interest.

Funny, because in the latest interview he's given, he talked about that very subject. That was in 2014.




/jarmo

A. He didn't say CD2 was coming out or that has was doing anything with those sessions. He said that as far as a new album goes he was 'looking seriously what he was doing in that regard', which is essentially a completely meaningless statement that could mean anything from 'I'm going to look through the files and put an album together' to 'I'm going to write new songs with the current band' to 'I'm ultimately going to decide not to bother at all'.

And

B. So what? Even if he had specifically said "I'm putting out the rest of the CD sessions", he alluded to doing the same thing within a year or so back in 2008. So you're saying CD2 is closer than it was when it seemed to be a year away....7 years ago?

Ok dude  :hihi: Sorry, I was talking about real, visible progress, not the 'one album, tour a year, drop the next one', '2-3 albums', '2-3 new songs on the next tour', 'news in 2-3 months' nonsense that got old years ago. And just to clarify, progress in this context would mean, say, a single. A song played live. Clips. A title. A release date. Half of the people involved in the recordings not having given up and left. That sort of thing.

Half the members have left? I didn't know gnr has only 4 members. If he said a release date, it most likely wouldn't be accurate, but when he does give one I'm sure it will be close to the time they announce it. Although, I do agree, they should've played something live in 2014, but knowing Bumblefoot would be leaving, what's the point? Nobody wants to watch some dude who's about to leave play a solo that will be played by someone else soon.

There was a thread about this on GNRTRUTH awhile back when I used to view there, I'm also curious of what that is

Well yeah. There hasn't been a single out between 2012 and now. That's a correct observation.

There's a lot of assumptions being made when this subject is discussed. Some of them aren't even based on any facts....




/jarmo

Like how he's hard at work on it, you mean?

Funny how the baseless speculation tag never gets hung on that well worn chestnut.

He says (18 months ago mind you) he's going to get to work, then by god, that guy is getting to work!  You just heard him say it.

Everyone that leaves the band says they haven't written or recorded anything?  Well, don't take that at face value.  Nevermind all that.  Clearly, more to that story we aren't privy to.  And of course, anything unknown totally contradicts what the ex-band members said said to put things in a better light.

GNR fandom : Consistency Is Our Name And Logic Is Our Game

Monday Morning Coming Down? Lighten up Francis.

I have to disagree about this. This I love is a good song, but far from NR & Estranged. The main reason is that the other 2 songs are more structured: this I Love is basically 4 chords repeated ad libitum (maybe this could be good for a rock song):  piano, orchestra, vocals and even the first part of the solo.... the same melody played over and over.
The lyrics are good but under Axl's standards (our guy can write thousands of words on a 6-7 minutes song). The vocals are not bad, but could have been perfect with a little bit of rasp as he does (or did) during live shows, and without that stupid echo effect put on them. The great part of the song is the break, when the 2nd part of the solo starts.

In the end: To me sounds unfinished (as the whole album, except prostitute and sorry) and the song could have been a lot better.

Show me where he uses the phrase "Get to Work"  ::)

"We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out. We've worked more on some of those things and we've written a few new things. But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That's already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That's been done for a while, too. But after Vegas, we're going to start looking very seriously at what we're doing in that regard."

True, he only said he was looking.

But looking VERY seriously.

No, I meant some going on about how they haven't recorded anything since 2006. For example.

Not based on facts that we have.

The rest of your post, is just more assumptions.
You're assuming, quite conveniently, that since the album didn't come out on your schedule, it hasn't been worked on at all or not enough for your liking.
Your assumption is that since you didn't see the end result yet, nothing can have been done.

Faulty logic.



/jarmo

If your opinion is that since he started looking VERY seriously at this back in early 2014, from now until present day, that a lot has been done...no, I don't share that opinion.

If that makes me a bad guy, so be it.  If what it takes to remain a fan in good standing is to just assume he's putting in a real yeoman effort on this these past few years, well, guess that means I'm not a fan in good standing.

I'm also probably less likely to buy a handful full of magic beans than some of the other folks around here, but...that's really neither here nor there.

What stupid echo effect? I find the song to have a haunting and almost otherworldly vibe to it.

It's much easier to sit back and criticise someone else's creation from the sidelines than it is to create something yourself.  :-*

If it makes you feel better, I haven't considered you as "a fan in good standing" at all.  :D

It doesn't make you a bad guy, just makes your posts posting about this same thing over and over again, boring.
There's a lot of assuming you could do to make yourself feel better about the situation. But you just won't.   :-\


Magic beans? I'm sure you mean multiple copies of a GN'R album to give out as presents.




/jarmo

Is it incumbent on everyone that gives a movie a bad review to get behind the camera themselves?

Nah, I don't give out IOUs.

Yes you do, you make copies of the one original you got. ;)
You know, the one you made for yourself because Axl owes you an album.....

Just kidding! :D



/jarmo

It might just show up in their stocking one Christmas.  Who knows?

There are still roughly 40 more Christmases left in Axl's lifetime. 

All is not lost.  Plenty of time.

Ah, but you're assuming it's a Christmas release.... 
Don't forget the Easter Bunny!  :hihi:



/jarmo

The point was that it's easy to criticize from the stands.

I've been all over the world and I've never seen a statue of a critic, I have seen statues of Phil Lynott and John Lennon though.

Maybe he thinks it will be released here:

Wednesday, December 23
Festivus 2015

 :hihi:

Well he is good at airing grievances. :hihi: Not trying to start a fight. Just making an observation.

Some people celebrate Festivus all year long it would seem.  : ok:

Oh yeah, I got that.

But I'm just curious if that is a hard and fast rule that stretched across all spectrums, or if yours was a more emotional type response here because this happens to be one of your favorites taking the heat.

girl, it's just my opinion  ;)..the voice is obviously doubled ("short echo") and i just dont like it. People who worked on Axl's voice did a shitty work imho, and not only on this i love. When i listen to the demos of CD, the voice sounds better... If  u compare both versions (demos and final songs), you can notice they worked too much on it with the autotune thing and other effects when there was no need to do that. I like almost every song on CD, but I just don't like how CD songs were mixed & mastered. For example...I always talk about CITR and how great is that song...but...3 guitars, 2 keyboards, drum & bass and at the end what do you hear? I have a lot of troubles listening to CD mainly because of this sense of "copy and past" thing that makes me feel that sometimes the songs have been put togheter not in a good way, sometimes they lack something, sometimes they are too overproduced just to hide the lack of work behind them. It's a feeling i Have, an after all these years is still there...but maybe it's just me  :beer:

Sounds like they should've spent some time fixing all those faults you list..... See, what some see as too much, another can see as not enough! ;)



/jarmo

Since I am not a musician I don't really get into overanalyzing the mixing and mastering. I thought all the songs sounded great. And I have over 900 songs on my iphone.

It's not a terribly organic sounding album.

But, doesn't mean it can't work.  'I.R.S.' is a 10 year old vocal with new guitar flourishes added by Ron 8 years after it was recorded.  And I think it works.  I love it.

CITR does not work, in my opinion, for 2 reasons.

- Who the hell erases Brian May for Ron Thal?

- Does Ron's solo even fit the song?  Its very loud and very busy.  I think the song lost a lot of its charm from demo to finished product.

Brian May was probably not available to tour. So in order to avoid the complaints about somebody butchering Brian's solo on the tour, they got one of the band's guitarists to record a solo. Proactive innit!

No, I'm not serious.  :P




/jarmo

Pre-emptively butcher it, so people are ready for it at the shows.

That's a good point, actually.

Always with the negativity!

 :P



/jarmo

Buckethead and Finck played on CD sessions. Presumably Paul Huge did too. We are told Ron and DJ added stuff. Tommy seems to has left and has been there for the majority if not all CD era sessions. Brain, likewise.

That makes 5-7 members who participated in the recordings that have left. I have absolutely no idea where you're getting your figures from.

Where is the statement about Ashba adding to the CD sessions? I thought he was simply writing new things and submitting them-

You may well be right, IDK. I won't pretend to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of this stuff. The rest of my point stands, but yeah, Ashba having worked on additions to CD stuff? Either something was said by DJ at some point to make me think that or I may have just guessed so given that's what happened with Ron (and Frank, if I recall correctly). Either way it doesn't seem unlikely that he may have.

Whether DJ or Ron contributed anything to the CD sessions seemed to change by the day and was dependent on the argument being made.

While they were still in the band, it was dangerous and treasonous to suggest they hadn't done anything.  The fact both men said that, flat out?  Nevermind that.  We weren't in that studio, we don't know.

Oh, right, you don't need a studio to record an album.  It can be done via e-mail and carrier pigeon.  And since we were out of the e-mail and carrier pigeon loop, let's not assume these men are not lying to our faces, and they contributed a great deal.

The second they are gone, and people don't have to keep pretending they care about them...well, they never contributed anything anyway.  So, no great loss.

Richard and Dj did work on something, according to Richard. No idea what it was for and if it will be used.

Also, since Axl said "We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out. We've worked more on some of those things and we've written a few new things", it could mean Dj was included in the "we".



/jarmo

Makes sense. What you could consider the CD-era sessions takes on such a broad scope, so many years and so many people it gets to the point even some of the participants could probably debate whether they were actually a part of it.

Thinking back, what I took from DJs interviews was always more that he was bringing new song ideas forward rather than adding to work in progress stuff. I don't remember him ever specifically  saying he worked on any of these kinda mythical CD2 numbers like Ron did.

Again, going from a patchy memory but weren't Ron's additions to CD pretty much the last work done on the music before it came out? Maybe any DJ additions to CD2 would have been done at a similarly late stage, and since that late stage presumably wasn't reached while he was in the band, maybe not.

Possibly, his and Frank's parts.



/jarmo

Dj also said in an interview he wanted to put his stamp on the already recorded material. By this statement it would seem like he hadn't recorded anything for the existing material, but wished to do so.

I think this was a little over a year ago..

We've been through this before.

Some assume that if the band didn't write and record stuff together in the same place at the same time, that nothing could've been done.
That was what Ron kept saying. That they didn't sit down together and work.

The others mentioned them going in and doing something.





/jarmo

I was just referring to CD-era material. Dj himself did confirm that he wrote and recorded brand new songs, right?

Sorry, it wasn't meant as an attack on you.


Yeah, I think he spoke of song ideas and presenting them to Axl at some point?



/jarmo

Yes, the might not have been developed further than the demo stage.