Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I've been pretty up-front with the fact that I'm not the new band's biggest fan or supporter. I will say I loved Oh My God and I do love a few songs off of Chinese Democracy: Rhiad, Shackler's, Catcher, There Was a Time, Better

But I've never been able to love the record. I find the rest of the songs either forgettable or horribly mixed. TiL is ruined by a guitar solo; it didn't need one.

But this is a question for people who love Chinese Democracy - for the people who hold Chinese D as their favorite GN'R record -|
Why do you love it? What about the album or songs speaks to you? What are your favorite songs off the record? What puts it above the rest of GNR's output for you?

I think most people claiming "they dont like the way it's mixed" or "it's overproduced" are merely mindlessly parroting something they heard someone else say and have no real or actual knowledge  of the mixing/mastering process, and no real knowledge about production.

I don't see where TIL is ruined by a solo, and that matter is subjective.

My favorite tracks are Sorry and Prostitute, a lot of people are unable or unwilling to relate to the introspective vibe of both of those songs and would prefer mindless, shallow, feel-good party music IMO.

My favorite GNR album changes weekly, or daily at times. I enjoy them all, and have numerous non-official compilations as well.

I take a little issue with the first comment. I'm not parroting anything or anyone when I make similar statements. I from day one have compared CD to Let it Be by the Beatles, CD has the same 'Wall of Sound' philosophy that Phil Spector brought to LIB.
A lot of people want to equate this point of view to me (or others with similar thoughts) hating synth, that isn't the case, it's more the amount of synth, hell even the pure volume of guitar tracks on some of the songs is just plain overboard. I heard recent arguments that 'CD is a guitar heavy album'... great guitar heavy doesn't mean guitar good.
IMO there are several songs on this album that could stand to be stripped down just a tad, also IMO those songs are the best on the album. Catcher, SOD, TWAT, Prostitute... There are other songs that IMO aren't strong enough and need all of the other bells and whistles like Shacklers, Scraped, etc...
With all of that said, it is a great album... I just think the product of all of the time in the studio was too many tweaks and second guessing were the first take might have been the right one.

I have negatively impacted projects at work by spending too much time on them or making too many changes, then I go back to the first draft and realize it was so much better.

It's an album that gets massively overlooked. I don't really care for citr or rhiad, though they have some redeeming qualities. I think many of the songs hold up to classic gnr. Better is a phenomenal song. The guitar solo is one of my favorites across the board.

Interesting comparison, I'm a huge Beatles fan and have a massive collection. I don't think CD was overproduced at all, and it doesn't suffer from the evils of compression like many albums released at the same time frame.

I can definitely see the Spector Wall of sound similarity and comparison. I have played CD countless times-listened through my speaker system as well as through my headphones and sometimes I still catch something new I hadn't heard before. I'm a fan of rich and multitextured music so the CD appeals to me more than the earlier demos, as a general rule.

It is very subjective whether it was "overworked" or "overthought", I love the detail and nuance of the songs and I appreciate the effort that went into it all.

It is obviously completely opinion based, which is why I would actually love to see an eventual re-release of CD almost in the image of Let it Be Naked... BUT that will never happen because Axl is the Phil Spector in this case.

It's just a great fking record that's why! I still have the cd in my car and I do still listen to it almost daily. Great album that for some reason people seem to not understand.

I think it's a more consistent record than the Illusions were, but I'm certain most others wouldn't agree.  And "Better" is just a killer, signature song...I still get chills when Axl's voice hits.

Hope Not, the Phil Spector story had a very dark eclipse.   :nervous:

The Let It Be Naked album is a great alt to the original, would be interesting to hear a stripped down GNR album.

Ya... Phil Spector the producer from 1969, not the Phil Spector that murdered Lana Clarkson...

wHY comming  after UYI

 : ok:

I agree with the person who said, that people say songs on Chidem are overproduced when in fact they are not.
Ive actually thought, some songs where ruined, precisely because someone didnt pay attention to it more than once. And I thought some of the vocals were done on a whim or changed last minute.

01 Chinese Democracy: I like it, some of the best vocals on the album. it felt more like old GNR than the rest of the album. Nice intro to the ''new sound'' if there ever was one'', Nice effects going in, nice effects on the outro.
02 Shackler's revenge  was ok, I like that it was almost like Disco. The mood and vibe of the song as well as some of the effects where hard to swallow at first though.
03-Better - Perfect song ruined by (what a poster said at the time): "the little farts''? someone put some effects in there, that sounds like little farts, and its true, its distracting and they dont do any good. Maybe its the only time I agree its overproduced? that is if overproduced means they thought too many times of putting too many things on the one song. I enjoy listening to the leak more than the version that was released on the cd, which is a shame.
04- The Blues, I mean erm?street of dreams. One of my favorite songs on the album, as recorded. I think its pretty close to the Rock in Rio version I was listening 7 years before the album actually came out. I have nothing but praise on this song! They left it simple.
05-If the world. Sounds like a James Bond score. It ended up on that Leonardo Dicaprio movie about spies. I love the thing about the vocals going from one side to the other, then BADAM BOOM ! it starts again I like the electric solo plus the acoustic guitar. I like to do that on songs myself.
06- Twat I think, and while I love this song and I think its got the climax of the whole album,  I think that Axl never figured out how to sing the first minute and a half. It's like he warms up to the song and then delivers the best vocals on the album. Its weird. Axl Vocals and BH guitar sends chills down my spine. Best song on the album with the best feeling even if it was not perfect.
07- Catcher in the Rye Another song that suffered from the leaks. I actually prefer the leak. it's not that the song was overproduced as much as the effects didnt embellish the song, it should've been kept more simple like The Blues/SOD.  I love the NANANANAHHH. I love how this is the one song that sounds like classic rock the most, great lyrics.
08- Scrapped Awesome ideas, love the dual vocals. They are nailed ! However like Shackler's Revenge, sometimes it feels like a loop. Maybe it suffered from my high expectations, being a song I heard on the album first, not on the leak.
09- Rhiad and the bedouins, I love this song live, and I will always love this song despite its many critics !!It was nicely recorded and didnt stain the live experience I had for many years.
10- Sorry Axl said in an interview that he tried to write better lyrics for this song. But didnt? Like he gave up on trying to write better lyrics. I think the lyrics are mostly very good though I don't like the line ''I kicked your ass like I said that I would'', maybe Axl was thinking about these.
 I love the electric solo again with the back up acoustic guitar.
11- IRS Again, This song was kept in line with the live experience (or leak?) of the song that I had previously. Very cool combo of vocals and solo.."its such a crime you know its truuuuuuueeeeeeee".
12- Madagascar : Madagascar was ruined by (and this is pure speculation) Axl reading internet comments from people saying they liked the raspy vocals better ,so he went and rerecorded the vocals. .  I loved Madagascar from the mtv awarsds and rock in Rio, and I thought the non raspy vocals were better suited for this song. I like the live song better, it has more punch and passion. maybe its because the live performances where like that?..Like KOHD?. its just better live. But I dont like the raspy vocals that ended up in the album.

13- THis I love: This I love is almost perfect. Whoever said the solo shouldnt be there is just crazy. There is one detail that ruins the song for me though. Its like a bad edit, or an non pleasant result from the echo effects? but when axl sings '' and she holds her pain inside''  it ends up sounding like two set of vocals, or Axl Burping or something. Its just for a split second, but I think someone should've noticed and rerecorded the vocals.

14- Prostitute: Its got all kinds of stuff on it, effects violins, etc. But its sounds perfect and nothing out of place.


Overproduced for me is not putting too much stuff on a song. I think overproduced means putting unnecessary stuff on a song. And the only song like I mentioned that feels like that is Better with the little farts and Catcher in the Rye with certain effects.

To me TWAT is my favorite GNR song of all time. The lyrics are deep and the guitar work by Bucket and Robin is epic. Prostitute, Sorry and TIL are deep songs. Better is a great and deep rocker. I feel IRS is underrated. Scraped isn't my favorite but holds its on the record. If people dislike the record, they were probably influenced by the negative talking points but it's definitely a true GNR album

EmilyGNR is correct here - people throwing around the term 'overproduced' without understanding the concept and end result of the desired sound.

This was always intended to be a multi-layered sound, complex arrangements, lots going on. 

You may not like this style of production, but it's not a simple case of 'they got it wrong, they over produced it'. 

I'm a fan of the production and it works on this album in general.  Not a fan of the way 'Street of Dreams' turned out, but apart from that the sound is great.

Sorry sounds amazing - a cross between Use Your Illusions and early Pink Floyd.

Early Pink Floyd? Psychedelic? Don't you mean post-Syd Pink Floyd? Or at least post-Meddle Pink Floyd.

You're exactly right - I mean't late Pink Floyd

I listened to their debut today - ThePiper at the Gates of Dawn.  Could never get into it....

Agree. My favorite songs are TWAT and Madagascar.

Not surprised. Interstellar Overdrive is one of the greatest songs ever.
You clearly obsess about the wrong things like GnR fans. When you are pming people asking about me
and /or my friends, why not ask about some song selections?

(Edit: spell check is your friend).

I love Chinese Democracy because it was worth the wait,it's a masterpiece.
The Best Guns N' Roses record ? No.
The most hyped and talked about ? Probably.
I woudn't put Rhiad and Scraped but these are good songs too.TWAT,Better,Catcher,TIL are classics by now.

Interstellar Overdrive is an interesting piece.  Is a bit 'noise collage' and can be a challenge to listen to as a stand alone.  There was a closing track on a Velvet Underground album which I grew to adore that is similar.  Whenever I listen to the start of Interstellar Overdrive, I think 'Eight Miles High' by The Byrds is going to kick in!

I haven't PM'd anyone about you, I have asked a few older posters about a friend of yours.  I'm willing to admit I'm very wrong in my assumptions in said friend and apologize.

Do you like 'Eight Miles High'?  If you had to summarize en entire era/style/sound/decade with one song, I would pick that one.

CD IS definitely Overproduced. I mean, the songs are very good but the mixing is a nightmare. You can clearly hear only two things: the drums and Axl's voice. You have 3 guitars but you can barely list to what they're playing, plus you have sounds effects, orchestras, etc...Just too much.. And what about the "background voices"?? You know...it's just too Axl, you have his voice almost everywhere, Again, it's just too much. It's an exhausting album, because of the mixing and because of some choice i would never have done. Sometimes is Axl voice, sometimes is the jungle of sounds...In the end it could have been a lot better.
.
Love catcher in the rye & better

What he said!!!!!

Complex arrangements is Queen and Yes. Chinese Democracy is pretty simple musically speaking.
I see Chinese Democracy simply as "Axl doing the mid/late 90s". There's nothing on CD I haven't heard on a Korn or Rob Zombie or Foo Fighters record.
I don't like CD because there's similar not really any memorable songs. No classics or hummable tracks that stick in your mind like worms in the ears. As far as production goe the production is alright but you can tell nothing is organic on the album, that it was cut and pasted together. It lacks one single standout riff, and in rock music, that's essential. Also, I don't like it because it's a very depressing album.

Smile and Pet Sounds were cut and pasted....troll somewhere else. TWAT isn't hummable? Get the fuck out of here...IRS rocks as hard as anything on AFD....with actual soulful vocals. You need to get over Easy Wind.

No, CD sounds cut and pasted, which it was. Ask Brian May. A lot of the album came out of Axl taking bits and pieces of stuff he liked, parts he liked, and splicing it together. Like Brian May's solo on the original Catcher - it was never actually his solo, but cobbled together piece by piece from multiple takes. CD is the result of around 10 years of recording. Axl's vocals mostly date no later than 1999, and possibly from 1998 (Sean Beaven is credited with recording his vocals on many songs and Beaven didn't work for Axl after 2000). The guitar work has been overdubbed a bunch of times by a bunch of players - from the basic layers of Finck and Tobias, to overdubs by Buckethead, who was in turn overdubbed in places by Bumblefoot, who was supplemented by Richard in turn - to the drums being recorded over note for note by Brian, and also Frank from Josh Freese. I mean on one of the songs you have two drummers playing in different segments (Frank and Brain).

The main rhythmic section of TWAT (the pre-solo part) is basically the same rhythm as Mary Jane's Last Dance. It's alright - nothing particularly memorable.

IRS sounds like a circa 1990 UYI outtake to me and always has - both in terms of quality and the production sound.

Interesting, so you are able to determine a quality cut and paste from an inferior cut and paste soley by listening to it? A great deal of various recordings are assembled the exact same way-cut and pasted.

You may not like the album, but  it sounds as if you are attempting to justify this by assembling and compiling a hodge-podge of details that you copy pasted offline.

I've found the album sounds vastly different, as do most all albums- if you have a quality stereo system, the intricacies and layers are not well defined through an inferior sound system.

The album - to my subjective ears - sounds inorganic. There are albums and songs which are cut and pastes but don't sound it, and there are many records done using "cut and paste" that I enjoy, like Physical Graffiti. The Use Your Illusion records have a similar problem to Chinese Democracy but to a lesser degree - they just sound too polished. Out of all Guns N' Roses' albums, The Spaghetti Incident is the best solely in terms of production values and sound.

No, you can really tell in places where there's an overdub. Like all the guitar work Bumblefoot overdubbed - it sounds out of place with the rest of the music, utilizing an utterly different guitar tone and feel. It sounds out of place. Due to the album's own credits, we know Axl recorded most of his vocals before the year 2000. I don't mind new vocals being put on old music - The album Tattoo You by the Stones is a product of that exact idea - but something about old vocals on "new" music bothers me. It speaks of laziness to me.

When one has to say "On a quality stereo system the album sounds ten times better", you're reaching for a defense. It's that old argument many had when it first came out - "it needs to grow on you". I have my Ipod, and on that system I listen to a lot of records, some simple, and some complex - I listen to Pink Floyd, Yes, Rush, all of whom have records a lot more layered and intricate than Chinese Democracy and I've never had a problem with any of those records. If you need a "superior recording system" for the album to sound good, that's a problem with the album.

Why is using a vocal take you like considered laziness?

I'm not reaching for a defense at all, I'm making the distinction that an album sounds better on a quality system then played through some cheap computer speakers, that is a fact-not a defense in the least, and I'm sure there are several other audiophiles here that will agree- it isn't honestly debatable. A quality stereo sounds better than some ipod.Unless you spend a lot of money on the gadget that will allow you to take the digital feed from an Ipod and send it to a DAC and you are using lossless files (which most wouldn't on an Ipod).

I've also picked up nuances I hadn't noticed before by listening through headphones.

I think as it ages, more people will grow to appreciate it, but you seem determined to try and "prove" that you are justified in not liking it, and attempting to explain why you don't like some of the choices made- Which is probably why you started this topic in the first place, if you were honest.

Won't spoil it for me at all, I enjoy the time, talent and musicianship it took to craft this album. It is truly a masterpiece.

Why do I love it?  It's just a really good record, that's all.  :smoking:

I listened to it pretty much all the time for ages after it first came out, but then left it alone for a few years as my tastes changed away from rock music.  I've come back to it over the last year or so, though, and listen to it fairly often.  I think it's one of those records that works better as an album than it does in terms of individual songs, which is something I've always liked.

I think it's one of those albums that we're able to appreciate more sensibly as time goes on.  Take out all the controversy, the amount of time it took it to get done, the personnel changes, the lack of certain band members (not an issue for everyone, but it is for a lot outside the fan bubble)... but also the "they're (? he's) back!" buzz around the record and let it just stand on its own merits, and I think it's a very, very good album. 

It's not flawless (neither are the older albums, in my opinion), but the good in it far, far outweighs the bad.  I mean... I always skip over Sorry, but even so, that's not as bad as the solo in There Was A Time is good, for instance.  There's some great moments on that album, and for all its flaws has songs on it that are easily the equal of the old classics.  I'm happy enough to ignore the weaker moments, and appreciate the better ones - they're good enough to keep me coming back to it fairly often.

Because Axl Rose had been my favorite musical artist for the 20 years, so I was pretty much going to like it regardless of what it was.  Even if it took some rationalizing.

If you find that harsh, I think you need to ask yourself how much you'd have been all about it if this was a debut album from a truly new band. 

Were you just that blown away by the material on its own merit?  Or, like me, are you such a big Axl fan that it was going to take a Yoko Ono and the Plastic Ono Band caliber flame out to turn you against it?

The only song I feel is overproduced to its detriment is Catcher.  And perhaps overproduced in the wrong word.  But too many layers distract from the melody.  I prefer the demo leak as well, however its of poor sound quality.

Totally agree.

There is a good song under that final mix, but Ron just butchers it.

I don?t love Chinese Democracy, unfortunately.
Wish I did. I?ve tried. It just isn?t there for me.

If Chinese Democracy isn?t overproduced, no record is or ever will be.
Doesn?t mean people can?t enjoy the results. I just happen to be one of the many that don?t.

Bob Erin put it better than I ever could when he said "what I heard was something that he had painted over too many times. So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something?.

I think there was some real potential on songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher in the Rye, Better, and Prostitute.
And by and large those songs came out pretty well, but not as well as they could have, to my ears.
I prefer the live versions I?ve heard and some of the demos.

Then there are other songs like Rhiad, Scraped etc, where there just wasn?t much to begin with, and they were just labored over and tweaked to death, when they should have either been scrapped altogether, or gutted, rather than adding more sprinkles.

Chinese has an epic intro to an anything but epic song. Madagascar sounds great once or twice, but then I feel like I?m OD?ing on samples that date the song, or at least decrease it?s shelf life for me.

Musically, it?s not my bag, but I didn?t expect it to be, as it?s a host of different players, and not the Guns N? Roses I grew up on.
I knew that going in, and was fine with it.
I was interested primarily if not exclusively because of Axl.

I feel like he has his moments, but overall, lyrically, Axl took a few giant steps back from UYI to Chinese.
A lot of the lyrics sound uninspired, and that is what surprised, and bothers me most.
The last song I had heard, Oh My God, was a song that musically alone isn?t anything special in my opinion, but Axl?s lyrics/vocals elevated it to heights no one else could.

Musically, Chinese does little for me, outside of Street of Dreams and Catcher, but it doesn?t really bother me either(outside of Shackler?s Revenge).
I think deeper lyrics would have gone a long way, and changed the way I feel about the overall record greatly.

Because when its cranked up in the car, all the mirrors shake rendering them useless. : ok:

I think I read somewhere in 2007 that Axl was laying vocals for Street of Dreams. So I dont think the vocals were recorded before 2000 like some poster said.

The vocal tracks for TWAT, IRS, and 'Catcher' are from 1999.

They never changed.

When I first heard CD, I liked it because Axl was back. I gave it a favorable  review on here. I shouldn't have done that. I was too excited and wasn't objective in my assessment of it. Looking back at it now, it just doesn't stand the test of time for me.

For me, I listen to the album much less now than when I first bought it. There are some good songs, but not great songs.  For me, the good songs are: Better, Street of Dreams, TWAT, IRS, and CD. These are the songs I'll listen to the most. Prostitute and Madagascar are ok. When Madagascar came out I really liked it. Now I'm not into it. Ditto for If the World. The studio version of This I Love is horrendous since it has that Andrew Lloyd Weber feel, but the solo is good. The live version is much better.  Sorry is ok, but the lyrics are bad. Shackler's  Revenge would have been a great NIN song. It's ok as a GNR song.  Catcher in the Rye is ok. Scraped  and Rhiad ranks up with My World as the worst GNR song ever created.   

Given my lifelong fandom, I obviously got a lot of questions on this when it came out.  I trust you all did too.

3 things most commonly said by me :

- It's good, not great
- It doesn't sound much like Guns N' Roses, but there are still some solid songs on there
- It was not worth the absurd delay, but to be fair, nothing possibly could be

I felt that walked a nice line between being an obviously biased fan and still trying to keep things somewhat real world.

Compared to some other things I heard said on some of the forums :

- I think its seriously the best rock record of the past 10 years
- For me, I think its the best GNR album
- This was the best line-up the band ever had

Look, I'm sorry that I'm not sorry...but I find all of those statements laughable.  They sound so forced.  Like you feel some duty to be that over the top about it to try and justify how long you waited and how "loyal" you stayed.  I do not consider them serious statements. 

Are there some people that truly, deeply, believe them with their heart and soul?  I suppose anything is possible.  But, on balance, I feel there are fewer people that truly felt that way than there were people who felt this was the role they had to play.

Why would they feel it was necessary to play some role? There honestly is not some big conspiracy theory, nor people hired to 'play roles'  :hihi:

If some people truly feel that way, what is the issue? It is all subjective anyway.

I think it was easily the best album of 2008, and my favorite GNR album changes regularly.

Because I think some people are vehemently opposed to conceding "Axl's vision" post 2000 does not stand up to the past.  They'd rather clew glass.

You don't think some see things that way?



The guys who say "its the best rock record in the past 10 years", yes, I roll my eyes.  But, totally subjective, as you say.  And can't be proven or disproven.  Fair enough.

But best of their albums?  Over 'Appetite', one of the most celebrated rock albums of our lifetimes?

But best line-up?  Not that line-up that made us all lifelong fans 25 years ago?

Again, I tend to see people that say things like that feel they are being bad fans in some way to say what is going on right now is anything but stupendous.

Honestly do not think some are posing as some supposed superfan and giving out pumped up opinions.

I view CD as easily the best release of 2008, I enjoy it very much and it is in rotation as one of my favorite albums, I also think it's underrated, and brilliant.

Hiatuses are seldom stupendous, as far as what is going on now.

I heard you say the other day that listened through high quality headphones and/or a solid sound system makes a difference.

I know that sounds clich?.  And, like the sort of thing I might otherwise mock.

But I could not agree more.  There is a lot going on with those tracks, and most of it sounds really cool when you can really hear it.

It's down to personal preferences.

If those two albums were similar sounding, then I could see some of your point. But they're not really identical in sound.
So it's not weird that some people might prefer something to the other.

Some people also might not have a almost 30 year attachment to an album.


As we all know, tastes differ. Hell, some even listen to Bon Jovi and I can't understand why....  ;)



/jarmo

Jarmo -

Do you think any of this is out of line :


Because, full disclosure, I don't see you being OK with even one of those answers.

Why would I care what you think of the album?

Your opinion on GN'R is pretty obvious to us, so it'd be kinda stupid to view you as some kind of objectivity barometer.

All of that just proves it.




/jarmo

No, not me.  Take me out of the equation, difficult as that can be for you a lot of the time.

If you heard those three responses, given by anyone, would you not feel the need to "correct" them in some way?

What started all this was my conversation with Emily about people getting their backs up over certain comments, even ones that aren't really all that derogatory.

Can't think of a handier, dandier example than you, guy.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them. That doesn't mean their opinion is right. If people love the album and think it's the greatest thing ever, who the fuck are you to say anything to the contrary?  ::)

In Special By Work, Talent & Dedication Of Robin Finck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBLRjVLDU9E

 :peace:

Alright, then let's throw it to you.  It's a group discussion.

Any of this out of bounds, as you see it :

You stating your opinions above does in no way magically transubstantiate them into fact, so why exactly would your opinions matter or affect anyone else's opinions unless you state them as if they were fact?

I think BonJovi is unlistenable, but I hear some people enjoy that sort of thing.   :nervous:

It is subjective.

The answer to the question is in bold above, you just need to learn how to read.

I'm not stating them as facts.  Where are they stated as facts?

I'm saying these were opinions I have given, and I am curious what opinion you guys have on those statements.

Not having a lot of luck, however.  Should I get the pliers?

Ah, obviously super interested in a discussion.

So thanks, for that.

What else needs to be said? Anyone can have an opinion one way or the other. You love the album? Right on that's cool. You hate it? Right on that's cool.

Do I personally agree with people who hate it? Fuck no, as I've said before I think it's a great fucking album.

I would probably put one song in their alltime top 10 (TWAT), and maybe 2 others in #11-20.

What's your breakdown?  More, less??

Obviously more. Better is up there as well as CD and Catcher.

I dont usually rank Guns songs tho. I love every single song they have ever done including My World.

There's plenty of people in the world who don't like the music I like. What do I care?

I don't need to invite them here to tell me day after day how they don't like the band's music, that this site is about, though.


In your world, you seem to make assumptions about me and then when reality comes knocking, you can't accept it. So yeah, you're wrong.
I'm not gonna "correct" your biased opinion. I'm just gonna point out you being wrong.

As a bonus, I'll tell you why your opinion matters less to me than somebody else's. Because I know your bias already. You can't be taken seriously.



/jarmo

I don't think "Appetite" is half as good as the "Illusions" set.


The reason I love "Chinese" is because like the "Illusions" it was a progression of their sound.  I hate when bands repeat themselves.  All of my favorite bands take big risks musically, that is what being an artist is all about.  There is nothing worse than a band like AC/DC, where when you hear a song of theirs, not only do you not know what year it is from, you can't even tell the decade.  A band like Slayer has put out 10 versions of "Reign In Blood" with different titles.  It is my main complaint about Slash, his stuff is repetitive.  Not bad, but repetitive.  The one time he took a big artistic risk was in 2010 with his first solo album, which happens to be his  best post GNR work.  Look at Metallica.  People bitch about "Load" and "Re-load" and absolutely destroy "St. Anger."  I thought "St. Anger" was a bad record, but I'm glad I have it.  I would rather have that than a weaker clone of one of their earlier albums.  I even listen to it from time to time.

For me the highlights of "CD" or  at least the songs I listen to most are "Chinese", "Shacklers", "Better", "Street of Dreams", "Riad" "This I Love" and "Prostitute."  The rest of the album I listen to pretty regularly with the exception of  "Scraped", "If The World" and "TWAT". 

I know everyone loves "TWAT", I definitely don't dislike it I just don't find myself listening to it as much as everyone else does.

I also love "Oh My God."

Good points. I agree.

It's like a chef making the same exact dish for you year after year. Yes, it's nice and you don't go away hungry, but wouldn't you rather have him/her occasionally try to put a new twist to that dish you like so much?




/jarmo

I know I have said this one hundred times, but how do you call it an evolution or compare records when the entire band changed? I still don't get it...never will. Axl's evolution .... yeah that took place...it was his vision.

As for the topic at hand... I love about 60 percent of Chinese. Shackler's, Rhiad and Chinese Democracy just don't do it for me at all... same with Oh My God if that had been on the record. I think that goes for all records whether it ur favorite band or not, you simply wont love every song. (AFD being an exception...it's perfect from end to end.)

I LOVE... Better, Prostitute, TWAT and Catcher. Those songs are all time greats... and if they had been recorded Slash, Duff and Izzy... they would be looked at as all time great GNR songs everywhere.

as to specifically WHY I love them... well it's Axl Fucking Rose singing those songs....

So, looks like that's a "no" on taking me out of the equation, even just for a second.

Hey, I knew the odds.  Can't exactly credibly claim unfair surprise.

There were already some differences between the previous albums.
Maybe the step from Illusions to Chinese would've been smaller if the old band would've stayed together, but I wouldn't have been surprised if there were some differences between the albums either way.



In plain English for you, I don't care what you, your imaginary girlfriend or that guy on the street, thinks of Chinese Democracy.
Better?

So no, I don't have a problem with your opinion. It's just one among one.
I have a slight problem with your need to constantly repeat your boring opinions. But that's a different issue altogether.





/jarmo

At what point do you become concerned that every sous chef he's ever had, and more than a few line cooks, keep leaving him because so little food actually seems to make its way out of the kitchen?

At what point will you give up your decidedly negative agenda here, as well as the idea that you even remotely know what is really going on in the kitchen?

I guess when I'm disproven by actually getting a meal.

How long can you really fill up on bread?

Hold it right there. So you like those songs because Axl is singing? There are song that have a value on their own despite who is singing.

If Madonna decides to cover YCBM you are gonna hate the song because someone other than Axl is singing?

You could argue you like the original because your favorite band made it. And Madonna doesn?t have a clue. But YCBM is still a great song regardless. Why? Because it has an amazing killer intro, melody and solo. Then you add the rocking lyrics and Axl?s voice.

Personally, I find it more of a case of Axl being so overwhelming the biggest hook for any of the new material.

Swap out Axl for some other singer and put him on the CD tracks.  Are you that into them?

Being overly anxious for a meal is no reason to think you understand how the kitchen works, nor will the constant complaints hasten the meal being served.

Men can starve from a lack of self-realization as much as they can from a lack of bread.
Richard Wright

True.

But I'd have to be blind to see there are fewer patrons in the restaurant these days.

Their loss-
Guess they can get their own soup.

Hahahaha

Well played here this morning, Emily.  I much prefer us disagreeing on a whole bunch but doing so in a more light hearted manner.

I knew you would catch that  :hihi:

No soup for you! Come back one year!




/jarmo

Like others I think CD is a solid album, but by no means amazing.  I absolutely loved the leak of the TWAT demo before the album came out.  It is still my favorite song off of CD, but I agree that the end product is way overproduced.  I felt the same way about the extra sound effects in songs like Garden of Eden, Perfect Crime and Coma.  I would rather hear the songs without all the extras.  I tell my wife all the time, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it.  That is how I feel about CD. 

The only songs that I listen to off of CD are TWAT, IRS and Madagascar.  I think Prostitute is alright, but other than that I think its a rather forgettable album.  I think Scraped is terrible and the lyrics for Sorry absolutely kill the song for me. 

I love the wall of guitar sound throughout most of the album.  

Axl's singing, of course.  The scream to kick off Chinese Democracy is just pure beautiful violence.

Robin's solos on TIL and SOD.  

The Better guitar riff, which is amazing the way it is so choppy but grooves at the same time.  

How emotionally intense some of the songs are, especially Prostitute.  Unlike Appetite, it's intense in a very ambivalent way, like a frustration that's never fully released because of conflicting emotions where one part of you can't win over the other.  

I think Madagascar is incredible, but I do wish he would have stayed with what I guess is the Brownstone voice that we heard in the live bootleg.  Love the guitar solo that sounds like the pit of Hell coming to a boil.  

Idem, Welcome Reality GUNS N' ROSES !!!

 :beer:

I like CD because I can listen to it from start to end. I do not find many albums these days which I can do that with.

To address your other opinions, perhaps Guns could release an alt version of CD one day with other versions of the songs.

D-Generation, I do like a lot of what you write, especially the thought of Axl as the master chef.   :hihi:  That's one restaurant guaranteed to have some very hungry and extremely pissed-off customers!   :hihi:

But, to try and make the case for an album's music being good by "swapping out singers" is ridiculous.
99% of folks on GNR forums are here specifically for Axl's voice.

As for why I love CD, it's a killer album, that's why.
I only have 2 songs on it that I regularly skip:  ITW and Rhiad. 
12 out of 14 is pretty damn good...in fact, it's a higher % than AFD (for me 10 out of 12).  TAY and AG off of AFD aint my cup o' tea.  ...and like % is way higher than Lies and the UYIs.

Yes, it is great start to finish! It is like a movie in that way. I think making albums this way where it all flows together allows it to tap into the whole storytelling mechanism humans have used to convey information since the caveman days.

Chinese Democracy is one of my all time fav albums. I love all the songs. Espescially THIS I LOVE, Madagascar, Better and There was a time. I remember buying 30 copies to give as gifts to worthy individuals. And how much me and my TWIHARD friends loved THIS I LOVE. I had 3 copies for myself as well. One for each car and my stereo. Yeah  don't do obsession lightly. :beer: