Here Today... Gone To Hell!

GN?R Reps Confirm Ron ?Bumblefoot? Thal Has Left The Band

Guns N' Roses has decided to clear up the status of guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, saying he is indeed out of the band -- and has been for some time.

A confirmed source with the band tells us that, "Bumblefoot quit last year. I don't understand why he continues to be evasive on his status with the band -- he quit in South America. He told Axl he was done and (Las) Vegas would be his last run with the band."

Bumblefoot, who joined GNR in 2006 to replace Buckethead, has hinted at his departure for some time, even telling us recently that "I think there's enough clues out there for you to figure out what I'm up to now" but adding that he was "honoring a request not to make any public statements" about his membership in the band. The GNR source's statement is the first confirmation of his departure.

The news follows in the wake of fellow guitarist DJ Ashba's announcement that he's left GNR to focus on his other band, Sixx: A.M., leaving Richard Fortus as the group's only guitarist. GNR drummer Frank Ferrer, however, said in an interview this week with Stone Chrome Radio that the group is "forging ahead;" "There's a plan in place, and it's happening, so that's all I can say."

GNR released the film Appetite For Democracy 3D: Live at the Hard Rock Casino -- Las Vegas last fall, but there's no word yet on a follow-up to its last album, 2008's Chinese Democracy, even though various band members have said there's new material around and some recording has been done.

http://wrif.com/2015/07/31/gnr-reps-confirm-ron-bumblefoot-thal-left-band/

JULY 31, 2015

Well, finally that puts an end to that saga.

Thanks FM / Thanks BBFT

The Saga Continue... GUNS N' ROSES 4EVER !!!

 :beer:

Finally. :)

If Bumble had just announced this a year ago, just the way Dj did now, I think people would be more inclined to back him up and make his leaving more of a celebration of his time in GNR.

Personally I think he has been playing games with the fans for the past year, and it's really not that funny. If he indeed was denied to make any statements about it, then why did he? In every single interview he dropped "hints" about what's going on. I don't know why such a ban would be imposed on him in the first place though, no ban for Dj apparently. Seems really strange.

Anyways, good luck with whatever you'll do next Bumble.

I mean, I know the first assumption is that the band put those restrictions on him...and maybe so.

But, given the statement above from the "band rep", maybe it wasn't them?  Maybe, as some have suggested, it was his label and some of his gear sponsors?

I don't know..just floating that out for discussion.

Who know what the situation was:

His current status with GNR, meanwhile, is purposely vague and something he's contractually "not [able] to elaborate on."  Billboard.com

Maybe we'll get that letter from Ron now. :D

Yeah, it would certainly be in the sponsor's best interest to keep the "Guns N' Roses guitarist" tagline in their advertising. Good point.

Even if he wasn't able to elaborate on anything, he did. Many, many times.

He started the speculation before Vegas with the countdown to the last show.


If you can't elaborate on something, then don't bring it up in the first place.

I think everyone can agree it wasn't handled very well by Ron.

But it could have been cleared up long ago.

I agree.

New Generations:

- WELCOME TO GUNS N' ROSES WORLD -

 :beer:

Gary Graff

.@gunsnroses confirms it's down to one guitarist after @DjASHBA, @bumblefoot split

https://twitter.com/GraffonMusic/status/627141227935195136

1 hour

Would this be his last gig,

June 7th, 2014 - Las Vegas, NV @ The Joint at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino
Setlist: Chinese Democracy, Welcome To The Jungle, It's So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Estranged, There Was A Time, Better, Rocket Queen, Richard Fortus Guitar Solo/Live And Let Die, This I Love, Holidays In The Sun (Tommy Stinson), Band Introductions, Dizzy Reed Piano Solo/Catcher In The Rye, You Could Be Mine, Dj Ashba Guitar Solo (Bella Vita)/Sweet Child O' Mine, Jam (Babe I'm Gonna Leave You/While My Guitar Gently Weeps)/Layla (Instrumental)/November Rain, Marseilles, Bumblefoot Solo (Abnormal), Don't Cry, Yesterdays, Used To Love Her, Civil War, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Jam/Nightrain
Encore: You Can't Always Get What You Want (partial - vocals by Tommy Stinson)/Patience, The Seeker, Jam/Paradise City (partial), Paradise City (restarted from beginning)

 
 
Notes: Estranged is introduced as a "song about togetherness, or the lack thereof".
Bumblefoot dedicates Abnormal to the GN'R crew.

After Yesterdays Axl and Tommy discuss who fucked up.

Axl talks about being distracted by the girls and messing up. Then Paradise City is messed up a bit and restarted.

Opening acts: Unlocking The Truth, Andrew Dice Clay

I'm sure having his name associated with GNR hasn't hurt Bumble's media opportunities over the last year and a half. Kind of a dick move keeping things intentionally vague.  I'm hardly a fan of DJ, but he had the balls to put out a letter to clarify things.


So....Robin, Bucket & Duff return anyone?

 He wanted to get attention and cash in with the mystery game. I?m glad the camp put an end to it. Although they could?ve done it earlier

would like to know who the "rep" is...seems a bit fishy.

Since we don't know who the band rep in this case is, it could just be a case of one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing.

The journalist is credible:

Gary Graff

Gary Graff is an award-winning music journalist based in Detroit. In addition to Billboard, Billboard.com, and Billboard.biz, he also writes regularly for the New York Times Features Syndicate, Journal Register Newspapers, Revolver, Music Connection, United Stations Radio Networks and more, and for radio stations in Detroit and Milwaukee. He has written books about Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Seger, rock 'n' roll myths and other subjects.

http://www.billboard.com/author/gary-graff-6146

Its not been the best week in GN'R land.


Anyway, goodluck for the future Ron!

No it hasn't.  But at least we know what's going on.

With Ron and DJ anyway.

An album announcement and Robin return would sure end the negativity.

Exactly!  And some people give him continuos props and support.  The guy is a joke.  It's not that difficult to know why others in the band didn't really get along with him. 

Keep biting the hand that feeds Ron.

Ron has been an absolute ass about this! We knew from the countdown didnt we? He just fuckin milked the media opporunity as long as he could. What a dissapointment! Being so "nice" to fans and all. All his posters for solo gigs was "gnr" or photos from the gnr era. What a greedy twat! Milkin uncle Axl all the way. Nothing nothing like DJ, no appreciation in public just whining. His solo career is a joke and no more support from me regarding Bumble solo or Art of Anarchy. Bye Asshole Sorry for YOU!

Took that fucker of social media, as a friend and artist.

great

 The child left the band.

 DJ was correct in every way

 Guns n Roses forever

GUNS N' ROSES Reportedly Confirms BUMBLEFOOT Is Out Of The Band

July 31, 2015

According to journalist Gary Graff, a "confirmed source" with GUNS N' ROSES has clarified the status of Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, saying that the guitarist is indeed out of the band ? and has been for some time.

The source tells Graff: "Bumblefoot quit last year. I don't understand why he continues to be evasive on his status with the band ? he quit in South America. He told [GUNS N' ROSES lead singer] Axl [Rose] he was done and [the second GN'R Las] Vegas [residency] would be his last run with the band."

Thal recently revealed that he was focusing on his solo career after spending eight years playing in the Axl Rose-fronted band. Thal, however, stopped short of saying that he was no longer a member of GUNS N' ROSES, which has caused some fans to criticize him for not coming clean about where he stands with the group.

Asked by Graff earlier this week to clarify his status with GUNS N' ROSES, Thal said: "That is the thing I am not to elaborate on. I think there's enough clues out there for you to figure out what I'm up to now."

He continued: "I'm a real busy guy and really enjoying everything I'm doing, and I think that everything I'm doing has a future and a bigger plan ? the solo stuff, the other bands, the producing, the charity and educational things I'm doing. These are all the things I love that I've really missed, and I'm very happy to be putting my time back into that. It's really what I should be doing."

Bumblefoot joined GUNS N' ROSES in early 2006 as the replacement for Buckethead. He made his live debut with the band at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City on May 12, 2006.

Back in 2013, Bumblefoot expressed his frustration over the fact that GUNS N' ROSES had not made any new music since the release of 2008's "Chinese Democracy". He said: "If something came out at this point, it would be very old material that is just being released now. So it would be unheard material, but to me, I don't consider that a new record, I consider that just releasing old material from a band that doesn't exist anymore. And we need to make an album of this band right now." He added: "I'm all about making music; that's why I make music ? to make music. So I'd like to really do that. I would be very happy if GUNS N' ROSES could do that?. I wanna make some music with these motherfuckers. It's a damn good band and we should really have the opportunity to give what we can to all [the fans], and make some music for [the fans]."

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-n-roses-reportedly-confirms-bumblefoot-is-out-of-the-band/

The way I look at it Richard must be feeling pretty good about his job security in Guns!  :hihi:

When contract time comes up again, he will be holding two big bargaining chips.  ;)

Show me the money!!!!

First off, Ron is not a dick. He was obviusly requested by Axl/camp not to state his status. Ron was keeping his word. So once again, GUNS N ROSES CAMP are the assholes. Ron now is made out to be an asshole, when he was just doing what he was requested out of respect for GNR Camp. Ron leaving is the final blow, this band is a joke. Ron made the right move, another 6 years in this band nothing would change.

Was he really doing what he was requested?

I believe he means not to release a statement saying he quit.

So, he was fully cleared to talk in circles around the subject? Starting guessing games as well.

The whole thing is ridiculous.... ::)

Probably not.  But he never released a statement. :D


Yes.

They requested BBF not say anything out of respect but they let DJ speak?

How do you know they "let" DJ speak?  GN'R hasn't responded to DJ's letter at all?

Maybe because Dj hasn't informed anyone about his departure from the band before he published his letter?

Pilferk had a great point and it may have been more of bumble foots side not wanting to say whether he was in the band or not. If a company is sponsoring BF from GNR and all of a sudden BF announces clearly he's not in GNR maybe that could lead to a problem. Who knows but that's one possibility.

DJ and Rob leaving is only a problem if you are fans of DJ and Ron. I have preferred Bucket and Robin over those two. As far as releasing an album, they released CD after Robin left so I don't think a release if that's in the plans to be impacted.

Well if DJ wrote a letter saying he was leaving the band, it is hard to imagine he was told not to do it out of respect for Axl and the camp

He could have informed Axl/management that he quit.  Then went out on his own and released the letter on Facebook.  DJ lives his live on social media.

I think Axl knew about this before Dj went public. He's very respectful in the letter, that leads me to believe he showed the same respect to Axl by informing him beforehand.

Ron was either contractually obligated not to say anything or he had an agreement with management not to release he had quit.

Both have been reported.  Nothing to do with a sponsor.

Both have been reported, so one of those is true?

Yes, but if you read the letter he says he is thanks Axl for the opportunity and he says really nice things about Axl. It doesn?t look like there was some fight or argument about make it public or not.

Anyway I?m glad DJ made it public instead of playing games

I'm not suggesting there was a fight.  I'm just saying DJ probably released his letter to Facebook on his own.

One came from Billboard the other from Ron.  The difference is one says contractually obligated, the other that it was an agreement.

I think it's unlikely he would have done so if he was asked by management not to publicize it.  So it's fair to question why BBF would be told by management to keep it on the down low, but not DJ.

Let?s say that both were told not to say anything. DJ decided to come forward anyway without any innuendo nor mystery about it. Ron on the other hand gave clues, as he put it, and played silly mystery games. If he had an agreement then Ron should?ve never played games. He needed to shut up and pretend everything was fine. Now if he wanted to break the agreement he should?ve been honest from day one.

Believe I don?t like the silence policy but I don?t make it.

Who knows, Frank said DJ quitting threw everyone for a loop, maybe they didn't know he was going to post something to Facebook.  Like I said, DJ lives his life on social media.

For over a year?  Like I said, he handled it badly.  But it could have been straightened out long ago.

Even if there's an understanding between two parties not to make a big announcement, things could still be handled differently.... I don't think these fans are upset because of the "no comment" answers alone. Most people can understand it. If you're asked not to talk about something, you can respect it. It's normal.
It's all the stuff around that seemed to get people.

I mean, there was a countdown, there were comments and all kinds of hints before the last show of the residency. And after.

I might be wrong, but that's the feeling I get.


/jarmo

Yes you?re right but besides that, the band?s spokeperson says he /she doesn?t know why BBF never said anything earlier. So if that comment is true then BBF was free to talk.  There are people here saying Ron had an agreement not to say anything

Yes, and I'm just saying that even if he was asked not to, things could've been handled differently.



/jarmo

I just wish Axl would come forward and say something to his fans.

He wrote a letter about his Hall of Fame boycott. He could write at least a few words about the current situation too.

It's funny how people complain about bumble because he didn't say "I'm out" (he clearly was, only dumb people couldn't get that) while Axl hasn't talk about anything for almost all his life and everything about him is right because "he doesn't owe us anything"  :hihi: :hihi:

I missed where Ron SPECIFICALLY said it was GnR who asked that/made that request/had that contract with him.

He seemed to allude to "something" or "someone" preventing him...I missed where he (or anyone else, categorically) said who that was.

Link? I wanna read it.

Hmm, I read those.  I didn't see that they specifically said who that agreement or contract was with... Back to reread them, I guess.

He added: "I've been honoring a request to not make any public statements about anything related to it, which continues to put me in a very awkward position that I don't want to be in. Not how I do things, repeatedly taking the bullet on this one."

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-doesnt-want-to-make-any-public-statements-about-guns-n-roses/

His current status with GNR, meanwhile, is purposely vague and something he's contractually "not [able] to elaborate on."

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6531768/bumblefoot-video-little-brother-is-watching-exclusive-premiere

Uh huh..that's what I read.

Where does it say "with Guns n Roses"

I'm not saying it's NOT with the band. I'm saying there's nothing specifically saying it IS with the band.

Which leaves open that the agreement or contract was with another entity....like a sponser or the label publishing his solo album or whatever.

Who is this gnr rep?   How can it be an unnamed source when really....   How many people are in this gnr camp.    I know it wasn't me hahah

IT WAS ME!!!!

Oh, no, wait...that was me talking about Cespedes to the Mets.  MLB Trade deadline brain....

Never mind....

Too bad if true. Ron was not only amazing on guitar but his backup vocals on songs like Better etc. were top notch.  : ok:

https://youtu.be/8VB0tQc87yM?t=4m8s

I understand, but why BBF has some kind of agreement and DJ doesn?t? Shouldn?t the band have a specific policy about what to say, how to say it and when to say it despite sponsors or whatever?

Different times, persons and situations.

What pilferk is saying is that Ron could have had an agreement with another party, not Guns N Roses but some sponsor maybe. I don't think Ron and Dj endorses the same products or uses the same promotion companies, so why would they be under the same policies?

Clearly they are not. What I?m saying is that I guess the band also knows about their other activities. And DJ and BBF know that GN?R was above other things. I?d like to know if they were told by the band that despite other activities the band was their priority. And the band has it own policy that stands above anything else. 

If there is no such a policy then band made a mistake. They can?t have one guy free to talk and another who has to honor a request not to talk.

Im sure Ron will shed some light when the time is right. I dont think he should be badmouthed just yet, for example his 'Guitarist in Guns N Roses' tag might be associated with charity appearances maybe - in a case like that I dont begrudge 'using' the GnR name a little longer if its for that reason.
All sorts of contracts exist - even Chris Broderick checked with Jackson guitars before leaving Megadeth, and I doubt it just 'how will this affect me and getting free stuff' but more how will this affect Jackson.... Like Jackson using Chris' Megadeth tag to sell guitars rather than Chris using Megadeth tag... So maybe Ron had some stuff with Vigier or wasnt he doing a Hot sauce or something ages ago. It is a music BUSINESS afterall - contracts exist for all sorts and anyone who has followed Axl for so many years understands that people try and sue you for allsorts of things. I think Ron is caught between rock and a hard place.

Sponsorship deals, and the like, for individual members, are generally outside a band control. At least in terms of the specific contract details.

So if one sponsor has a clause that says "you can't disclose you have left your band until we say so", the other might not....and the band they both belonged to would have no control. Nor would the consider it when the member departed...thats not a gnr mistake, thats operating as expected/intended.

If that has ANYTHING to do with what actually happened. Again, i don't know. Its def possible the agreement was with the band. Then the why,what,and when is likely related to each individuals situation, etc.

I'm not sure I'm getting you? We're discussing the possibility of an agreement to keep quiet coming from someone else than GNR.

Just an example:

- Ron quits GNR to pursue his solo career, GNR says: "Ok".
- The company promoting his solo tour (not affiliated with GNR in any way) says to Ron not to make any statements about leaving Guns because they want to keep the "Guns N Roses guitarist" tagline in the promotional material and interviews for as long as possible. They know GNR is on hiatus, so they want to milk the name as long as they can. Think about it, if an interview headline has the words "Guns N Roses" in them rather than just "Bumblefoot", the amount of people reading it will be so much more.


- Dj quits GNR to join Sixx AM full time, GNR says: "Ok".
- Dj gives a statement about it



It's just a possibility and pure speculation, but from the quotes given by Ron and Billboard it's most probable that the "order" came from GNR. But by reading those quotes it doesn't specifically say so.

It's pretty obvious he's talking about Guns N' Roses.

There is also this, he mentions Team Brazil:

Thal said: "Let folks know I'm not being forced, and TB [Team Brazil, the management company that manages GUNS N' ROSES and Rose] doesn't need to be treated like monsters, and I ask that they not be treated like villains. It's on me, I've been trying to please both sides at the same time that have a different approach to things, and everyone loses a little in the process ? that's on me, not them. I hate causing TB and the fans grief, there's just no smooth way to act on two opposing philosophies at the same time, and that's always been difficult for me."

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-to-fans-dont-treat-guns-n-roses-management-as-villains/

Thank you both. Now I understand a better. So if the sponsor tells Ron he has to pretend to be in the band because it is good business or part of his deal then why Ron was all the time hinting about leaving the band? He deleted the GN?R name from his social media among evasive things he said on interviews. It wasn?t a smart move from his part. That?s why I don?t buy that some sponsor or record label asked him to keep using the name GN?R despite not being the band. As someone else said, most of us get it when we see the clues. Only few keep in denial.

Now if it was the band who asked him to honor a request. Well in that case he didn?t honor the request anyway because he was hinting all the time about his status. On top of that how come now we have some spoke person from the band saying he doesn?t know why BBF didn?t speak freely about his status. So someone who is close to the band didn?t know about the request????

Look, go back and read the responses. No one said that they truly believed this was the case, it was just a possible explanation as to why the GNR rep was clueless to why Ron has acted the way he has.

I said the agreement he had most probable was with GNR, so I won't say that I'm 'in denial' in any way.  : ok:

I disagree that its obvious. And its defintely not explicitly said.

It's sort of implied, and it's probably the most logical implication, but the fact he doesnt explicityly say it leaves wiggle room, both for him and in interpretation. Even in his tb talk....he talks about a non-specifc "both sides", and even says its not on tb.

Those two things are mentioned in a way that could be taken to ge seperate things. Tb isn't necessarily one of the "both sides" in that sentence. They might (probably) be, but...again...hes not specific enough to be sure.

Which is part of the problem.

I don't think a sponser would say "pretend to be in the band". They might say "don't publicize you are no longer in the band". See the difference?  And thats really what he's sort of done.

And again, i wouldn't peg this as a likely theory...just something thats possible.

And i agree...if it was the band who asked him to keep his staus under wraps...he didn't really honor it. Not in spirit.

I think the Princess meant only a few were in denial about Ron leaving (or not). And i don't think it was aimed at us. :)

Sorry if I misinterpreted, Leia.  :)

 Aimed at those around the world who despite the many hints by BBF refuse to see it.

 Anyway, it doesn?t matter from where the request came. He never honored it. He said himself he gave enough clues about his status.  If he really wanted to honor the request he would?ve pretended to be in the band.

As for DJ it looks like there wasn?t any request. If there was such thing he also didn?t care. And he just decided to be very clear about it

That?s how I see things until more information is available

I don't know how it can be any clearer, when you are trying to say something, you agreed not to say. :D

Hopefully everyone is free to speak now.

I think the big difference is when DJ is out promoting his new music he will be promoting just that.   There is nothing left to talk about, in regards to gnr.   The record is set straight

As per Ron.   I feel the only reason he got any interviews was because of his association with guns n roses.   Ron kept his status with the band vague, as to continue these interviews.   

It's an exciting time to be a GNR fan.  : ok:

Well there are 99% chances the request came from Axl. And it seems he forgot to inform his rep. because the rep. said he doesn?t understand why BBF was evasive about his status.

Having said that I think BBF needs to hire some P.R. guy or manager who would deal with his social media and the press. BBF has shown he doesn?t know how to handle this. I don?t mean only GN?R we have to remember the Scott Weiland fiasco as well.

Good insight

Considering he made a countdown, told various fans that it was his last show in Vegas, has made numerous references to GNR over the past months repeatedly,  I don't think he handled this entire situation very well at all.

Add this to the AOA publicity, and it is evident he needs a competent PR rep and a roll of tape for his mouth.  :hihi:

If we have more band defections it can only get more 'exciting'. If the entire band leave we might even have a party.

Why don't you go crawl back in your troll hole and cry to someone that is interested in hearing your repetitive gloom and doom scenario Moaning Mortis  :crying:

GNR will be just fine.

Parrots must be sleeping this morning! Polly wanna cracka!  :D

It is interesting to think about how this cloak of secrecy that GNR has always operated under will serve them in the future when it comes to gaining new fans.  GNR taking a year to address that Ron is no longer in the band is INSANE in 2015...let me say that again...INSANE.  The best is that the general tone of the statement was like "oh yeah he hasn't been in the band for a while, didn't you know that?  Did we not mention that?"  I find it absolutely hilarious and par for the course in GNR land, but I wonder if this will hurt the band as far as gaining that millennial audience for all future endeavors.

We live in a world for better or worse where we know what our favorite bands had for breakfast that day, and from the looks of it that is not slowing down anytime soon.  I know there is a certain mystique level some of us like to have, but I really don't think the younger audience wants anything to do with that.  If an artist I follow doesn't tweet something for like a week you will notice comments underneath like "where have you been, I thought you were dead", "Did you retire?"  If you are not beating them over the head with content at all times they will wander off and find something else to follow. 

With things like pledgemusic.com you can actually follow the band in the studio as they write and record the record if you preorder the album.  I think that is a really cool concept. 

I am curious to see what GNR does in the future, whether they become more transparent with their audience or continue down the same path.  I also wonder how it will impact getting that next generation of fans to pay attention to their art.  DJ and Ron are both very social media savvy.  DJ handled the situation like every other artists would in 2015, Ron did not.  I am not sure why.

It all makes for lovely headline fodder

http://www.nme.com/news/guns-n-roses/87279 (http://www.nme.com/news/guns-n-roses/87279)

Very good points. Guns/Axl have operated in this widely illogical 'Area 51' fashion since the old band collapsed during the dark days of the mid 1990s. It has been the way since then really.

Very simple, we?ve been discussing about it. Ron said he had to honor a request about not to say anything regarding his status. But he gave hints all time. What doesn?t make sense is an official statement by the camp saying they don?t know understand why Ron didn?t  speak clearly about his status.

Was it the camp job to issue a statement earlier about Ron? I think so. But is it up to them? I mean they have to discuss it with Axl first about what to say and how to say it. Have they discussed the issue with Axl? It looks like they haven?t. Why? It?s anyone?s guess

As for the future. Well if you ask Frank according to him everything is great. Things are moving and 2016 will be an amazing year

 :hihi:

As long as GN'R continues, I have no complaints.  All that exists right now is potential.

EXACTLY!!!!   : ok: :peace: :beer:

As a fan of the band, the last few days have actually made me feel a little better. I know there has been some contention over whether or not members leaving is exciting, but to me what is exciting is having some clarity for the first time since the Ron rumors started in South America.

Great post.  And you bring up some very interesting points.

He might not be able to be clearer.

But it still was't 100% clear.

Why not? The truth has come out. He is no longer in the band and the whole world knows it

I meant prior to the last couple days, over the past year.

As to why.....thats the million dollar question.

Good riddance, I never liked him anyway. He always was whining about something....

At least we have some confirmation now and we can move on.

Do you guys think Axl wants to replace Bumble as well, to continue having a guitarist with shredding capabilities?

Hi Fernando! I can see you're reading the thread. Is there anything you can share with us concerning the leaving of Dj and Bumble? Are you looking to replace both?

GnR Street Team, time to get the Robin chants started!

"Bumblefoot quit last year. I don't understand why he continues to be evasive on his status with the band -- he quit in South America. He told Axl he was done and (Las) Vegas would be his last run with the band."

Couldn't the same be said about the Guns camp?
Why have they been evasive about it for a year?

Does it seem to any one else that they are throwing Ron under the bus?

I would think that will depend on a number of factors. IF they could get Robin back it'd legitimize the situation a little, as he's got his hands all over CD and whatever remains in the vault. IF that were to happen how well could Richard or Robin cover the Bucket/Ron parts? Would certain songs have to be eliminated from live shows? How big a hand does Buckethead/Ron have in future music that could be released?

Obviously I'd think it'd be easier to replace one guy instead of two, but if they really feel they need a third guitarist, then I would guess that's the path they'd choose.

I disagree.

Can you say anything about the whole Ron-situation? He was in fact out right after the last residency?

Could you elaborate a little more? Please?

It appears that with that little comment (bolded) that you are trying to spin Ron as the bad guy.

Hey Guys... Welcome To GUNS N' ROSES World

 :beer:

Anything else related to the band you can shed any light on while you are in a forum posting mood?

What a shame that in 24 years the greatest band released one album!

Oh, I get HA HA HA.
You're being intentionally ironic.
A vague and evasive response.
Well played, Sir.  8)

This could explain a few things.

I just noticed the headline of the story has been changed from "GN'R Reps Confirm", to "Source Confirms".

A confirmed source with the band tells us

Throwing him under the bus how?  Just curious.  It is not like anyone said anything and I am sure they could have said something.  Instead it is what it is, sometimes things are better left unsaid.

IMO they left it up to Ron to say something, he didn't, well kinda didn't.  Was it the right way?  ....Not for me to decide.

Fernando, is there no possible way we could get any clearer info on what is going on in Guns -
If there is a future ahead of Guns in the way of more tours, a new album?
What Axl's frame of mind is with everything? Not so much the departures as any statement he makes about them will be misconstrued, but at least with regard to the future of the band going forward?

Frank can say he thinks this or that, and Dizzy can say this or that too but the only voices I trust when it comes to the band's status are Axl and those close to him such as yourself. I am a fan - not a hater - I want this band to succeed. I just wish Axl/you guys would be more willing to communicate with the fans as to what is what, and what is going to be.

More likely he agreed to let them make the announcement.  They hadn't yet.

But according to Ron they didn?t leave it up to him. Ron has said he was asked to honor a request not to speak freely about his status I agree he didn?t exactly and properly honored such request because of the many hints or clues he gave. But at the same time we have a statement by the camp saying they don?t understand why BBF was evasive. The camp didn?t know about the request?  That request was the reason why he was evasive.

Still BBF case aside. Neither Axl nor the camp are straightforward about anything. Just take a look at the social media. I couldn?t care less about some baby wearing a GN?R shirt. Nor I care about all the silly stuff they post there all the time. We never find any kind of news neither in Nightrain nor in  Facebook or twitter. With that in mind I can understand why some people think the camp is always evasive

I honestly don't place much stock in what Bbf says, he says a lot of things he would be better off staying quiet about. He handled the whole situation very badly imo.

If you don't like GNR social media or what is posted there you have the option of unfollowing them.

When was the last time anyone heard anything from Tommy regarding gnr?   Is he just totally off the grid in terms of social media.   I am.  And if that's the cause.  TheBaconman likes him even more

Tommy told WMMR a few months ago that he was "out of the loop" in regard to GNR.

And he is supposed to be the backbone of leader of the band???   What's going on here

Let's hope for a jays win tomorrow in there rubber match.   And another evil Yankees loss.    I think if I lived in New York.   I would be a mets fan.  Hahaha

At least management confirms Ron has quit.

Yes one year later. And the camp say " I don?t understand why BBF is evasive about his status" Well if you don?t understand ask him. Funny the camp rush to call Marc Canter to complain over an online little documentary. But they never bother to call BBF to ask him why he was evasive.

Could you explain more about this?

Let?s say you are the camp.

Scenario 1: You know that BBF is not allowed to make a statement because you asked him not to talk about his status. He agrees. Now you see that he is giving hints about it all time with the countdown and other comments like "the reign of doom is over" Fans read all this they can figure things out. So you pick up the phone and you tell BBF to knock it off with the hints and shut up because there is an agreement he must honor.

Scenario 2: If there never was any agreement. If he was free to make a statement about his status. And you see he is playing mystery games, giving clues (as he put it) And you don?t understand why he is doing this or why he is being evasive. You pick up the phone to discuss with him this situation. And if he still doesn?t want to make an announcement. Then you do it and you put an end to speculations, assumption and mystery.

But please don?t wait an entire year to issue a statement to say you don?t understand why BFF was evasive.

Maybe GNR didn't really care much about Bumble or what he was doing after he quit.  They weren't going to make an announcement because they haven't found a replacement yet (like this approach or not, that's how they have done it recently).  And the only reason "somebody" made a comment about it recently is because they were asked?  And yeah, I don't believe GNR ever asked him not to say anything or else they would have done the same with DJ.  So if GNR sees that Bumble is playing mystery games (for whatever reason), maybe they just don't give a rats ass.  But the longer it goes on, maybe that person is like enough is enough.  It could be pretty simple really. 

It?s odd (but not surprising) that some people here are blaming Ron for all of this.  Granted, BBF acted a bit immature, but management very easily could have dealt with Ron?s evasiveness by making a statement a year ago.  Instead, they chose to remain silent.  Clearly, they enabled Ron?s behavior, and could?ve put a stop to it at any time.

Also, why the nameless statement from management?  I guess it?s fitting, seeing as how everything else has been handled like a clusterfuck.  Why stop now?

I just love how whenever there are two sides saying different things, people always tend to believe the other side and say Guns are the ones that are lying.  I think a lot of it comes from Axl, since he doesn't and will not come out to defend himself (this has been stated in an interview, I forget with who though). I also feel Axl summed it up perfectly with the song Prostitute, specifically in this line "Why would they tell me to please those that laugh in my face". Early on in his career, Axl got burned by the media and such and decided to just give up on it. It seems he lets the music do the talking for him.

Now, I will say it is a bit disturbing that Tommy is saying he's out of the loop when Frank is saying there is a plan in place. It may mean something or may be just as simple as this is the reason they are on Hiatus, they knew Ron was out. Maybe Axl is regrouping, Frank reached out to him and Tommy didn't. I dunno.

I do think it'll be interesting to see what the next move is. Selfishly, I hope that it is NOT retirement. I believe Axl still has a lot he has to offer. It could be as simple as Axl is going through the old songs, trying to figure out which ones to release, which needs more work, etc and doesn't need a band or a guitarist right now, so he isn't too concerned. Whatever the case may be, I just hope Axl is well and healthy.

Blaming?  Blaming for what?  "All of this"?  Were talking about Rons actions.  We're ripping Ron for HIS actions.  When you use the term "blaming" it usually inloves two parties.  Ron is the only one involved here.  So are you saying its GNRs fault that Ron acts the way he does??  The comments here directed towards Ron are that he's been immature, unprofessional, etc.  Has he not?  We're talking about Ron and how HE'S acting, not about GNR.  Don't start blaming someone else for Rons actions.  This isn't about GNR, it's about how Ron has handled himself. 

So the fact that Ron has handled this poorly, GNR is then required (in your mind) to make a statement?  Jesus

I believe Ron quit and agreed to let management make the announcement.  When they didn't over the year, he left his little "hints" along the way.

Leia, there may be an explanation for the odd "I don't understand why he continues to be evasive" remark.  The articles headline has been changed from "GN'R Reps Confirm" to "Source Confirms".  It says it is a confirmed source with the band.  Not necessarily management.  Someone with the band who was not privy to that information.


That's what band managers do.

I think there's a couple things at play here. First, I don't think band management felt the need to make any announcement since the band didn't have any shows or releases on the horizon. At the same time, while Ron was in the band he often would say that it wasn't his place to announce plans and he'd leave that up to management. So instead, he dropped fairly obvious hints along the way.

Either side could have cleared it up, they chose not to. Not sure it's of any importance to place blame on one side or the other. Doesn't seem to accomplish much of anything.

No?we?re talking about the comment (the one above in bold) by the unnamed member of the GnR camp who said ?I don?t understand why he continues to be evasive with his status in the band?.  My point is management enabled him to be evasive?because they said nothing for over a year. 

I do think Ron was asked by management not to officially say anything?and I do think he handled that poorly.  But, I think that both parties benefitted from the no official announcement.  Ron could still trade on the GnR name for appearances and management didn?t have to deal with the fallout from losing (another) guitarist.

Sorry, but this is about GnR.  And it?s also about Ron. 

So you're choosing to believe Ron over GNR? That's fine, but that is what you're doing. The source is certainly implying that Ron wasn't told not to comment on his status. Ron has said he was told not to comment.

Let's say Ron was telling the truth. He still dropped many obvious hints along the way. So he basically disobeyed their wishes if that was the case.

If what they are saying now is accurate, they have known this whole time.

The second or third time you hear Ron going with this "I can't say" routine, you say fuck this, and clear it up.

Well, that's how most organizations would handle things anyway.  Takes 5 minutes of your time, not a year.

Anyway, the hell with him.  He wants to leave, leave.  What do I give a fuck?  I never knew the guy was alive prior to 5/12/2006, and its not like I'm alone there.

Sorry, in my case this issue goes beyond Ron. I believe the real debate here is the band?s communication policy, if they have one.

One member says he is leaving, other said he is out of the loop, another one says that things are moving and 2016 we will have important things, another one is giving clues about leaving and this whole mess over his departure and a couple more working on other projects saying that things with GN?R are up in the air and they don?t know.

We have mixed information from people who work together in the same band. If we can still call this a band. And adding more fuel to the fire we also have reunion rumors.

How come there are people here saying that management don?t need to make any kind of statement?!!!!

I don't find it much different than it's ever been. That doesn't make it right, but I just don't expect any changes. Things have always been mysterious with this band. Nothing has ever been straight forward. It is what it is.

Consider the source of that quote is a confirmed source with the band.  It could be a band member who has no idea what Ron and management agreed to.

Its a pretty shoddily run operation by any objective standard. 

But we aren't the least bit objective.  We all look the other way because we appreciate his talent.  Probably says more about us than it does him, honestly.

I think people are making this more complicated than it needs to be. He's out. Does it really matter who announced it or when it was announced? There aren't any shows or releases on the horizon that we know of. When that time comes, we'll find out who's actually in the band. I wouldn't expect to find out today, next week, or next month. If we do, great, but I wouldn't count on it.

You just said it. It is not right. Then they have to make it right once and for all. From the outside this band looks like a circus time and time again. How come band members and management don?t see they make a fool of themselves. Don?t they ever feel embarrass?

I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you're expecting them to all of a sudden change the way they've done business the last 15 years. You certainly don't have to like it, but it is the most likely scenario.

I'd like to think that if there was real exciting news on the forefront, they'd share it with us. For obvious reasons, maybe they're not in a rush to announce band members have left and there aren't any concrete plans that they can share at this time. I'm not sure what that would accomplish.

You can fuck up 1 time,2 times, 3, 4... Don?t push it. You may reach a point of no return. That?s what I?m saying

To Leia's point (and I think it's a good one) you have existing band members that have widely differing outlooks on what's going on.  That doesn't really paint a picture of clarity or togetherness.

Obviously, a lot of people have had their fill and have given up on the situation over the years. Some new people have been enticed and climbed aboard, and some have stuck around to see where this ride takes us. Apparently they don't feel an urgency to change their business model. People have been asking for that for well over a decade. History has a way of repeating itself.

Well I guess the day they can?t find promoters and sponsors. History will repeat itself for Axl. If he wants to perform he is gonna need to go back to The Roxy

EXACTLY!  Regardless of who should have done what.....I think most people are just referring to Ron's actions.  Announcement or no announcement, Ron has acted poorly.  So are some saying that BECAUSE GNR didn't announce that he was out of the band, that it's ok to act the way he did?  I don't get it?  Were talking about Ron.    

Its bizarre and dysfunctional.  I think its hurts their credibility as a viable band.

Axl doesn?t care about that. His only concern is that if one day, out of the blue he feels like performing. He just want whoever ready to report for duty. I fear one day nobody will answer

That wasn't the point I was making.

Anyway, I think most can agree that Ron handled it poorly, and management could have cleared things up long ago.

This is best way to summarize the whole thing.

As to why Ron acted the way he did or why the management kept quiet... I have a feeling we'll never know.

I agree with this.  And this is certainly what we are told, all the time.  And its not incorrect.

But nor is it a ringing endorsement on the efficacy of the approach.

You should be able to say "It's how it is/has been/will be and it ain't gonna change..." and follow it up with "...even though its a pretty fucked up way to do things."

First part, no problem.  Second part, that gets stuck in some throats.

I don't get the personal affront some treat that second part either.  If you don't agree, fine.  But no one just spit on your mother.

Chillax.

The classified info started in South America... not the rumors.

Situation Normal... #AFU

You guys are all overlooking a significant update.  Fernando gave us the answer to everything we've be looking for right here, in two words.  So next time you convince yourself that you know what GN'R should do, how and when they do it, just remember that TB "disagree".

Is that really him?

Fernando? Yes.

You?re right but they... you know... "disagree". As long as they deny that "it is a pretty fucked up way to do things" we?re not going anywhere.

It?s like an alcoholic dude who lie to himself and others when he says he doesn?t have a drinking problem.

Yes.
This has been a point made for months but it was always met with something that can be condensed into: But we need to know.



/jarmo

The difference is that unlike in previous situation when he had rumors from the media or the friend of the brother of the uncle saying something. This time it was the band ex member himself giving clues 24/7.

You have to put in action some kind of strategy.

And as I said before the situation goes beyond BBF

If nobody had said a single word other than "no comment" regarding any possible future plans for GN'R, there wouldn't have been a reason for any updates, corrections, statements or speculation.

It's not productive, in my opinion, to announce something like a departure when your next show isn't booked. Or if you don't have somebody confirmed to fill that slot in the band.

We found out about Dj joining once the band was getting ready for a tour. We found out about Frank just before his first show in 2006, we found out about Ron at his first show and Richard just before his first show in 2002.




/jarmo

Then it seems that this time around someone forgot to tell them to shut up. Band members  don?t have the power to read minds. They need to be told. Or they need to sign a document or something. And we can?t rule out the possibility that they?ve been told keep quiet and they didn?t care. So they did what they felt like it.

There was no plan in place to deal with an unexpected situation.

He's what you would call 'laconic'.

This was a creation of their own making.

They can't control how Ron chose to start things down this road.  But allowing to continue for over a year is absolutely, 100% on them.

If they were truly surprised by Ron's alluding to not being able to speak (which itself is debatable) then you'd have to assume it highly unlikely he was going to do the right thing and quash all this.

At that point, you step in.

Or...you don't, and put yet another bullet in the gun people can fire at you when they mock the haphazard (at best) way things work within this operation.

I don't think anybody forgot to do anything. http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-doesnt-want-to-make-any-public-statements-about-guns-n-roses/




Maybe it's my Finnish influence. :D



/jarmo

But BBF didn?t respect that agreement. He gave many and clear clues. He didn?t keep his mouth shut. What action did anyone take in that case to make him stop? How do you explain the "I don?t know why BFF was evasive..."  comment by the band?s reps.

What about DJ? He spoke loud and clear. Why nobody told him he was not allowed to speak? What about Tommy? Another one giving a hint and evasive comment. "I?m out of the loop"

Mixed messages:

Richard " I don?t know" " I haven?t heard from that camp"  "Things are up in the air"

Frank "Things are moving forward"

Frank knows things that Richard doesn?t? Why?

Exactly. 

He's making your operation look like shit.  Who allows that to prosper, unchallenged?

And the iffy rationale of alltime has to be that they can't say he out because then someone would ask who the next guy is going to be.  Really?  That's a huge reason to stay mum?

That answer sucks on several levels.  You are that paralyzed with fear?  And, not for nothing, all of the sudden you give a shit about leaving fans hanging?  When did this start?  5 minutes ago?

I don't see how things would've changed in a positive direction if they announced Ron was out of the band. The logical question would be about his replacement. They either don't have one yet, or don't feel the need to announce it yet since they're not making any public appearances anytime soon. So we wouldn't be in a different place today if they answered the question a year ago anyway. I'd venture to guess that we are the only ones who have followed this saga closely over the last year. I doubt the brand has been damaged because they didn't stop Ron from talking. Maybe you, and other forum members didn't like it. But let's be honest, I think people would've found other things to be upset about.

So, somebody doesn't do what he was asked to. Is it supposed to be a pissing contest or do you just roll your eyes and move on?
I can't comment on the quote since I don't know who or in what context it was said.



June 2014: GN'R just finished a run of shows in Las Vegas. Everything was great. The shows were amazing. Do you really need to announce something like Ron leaving at this high? And therefore put the focus on it? What exactly would've been gained by that?

July 2015: GN'R is on a hiatus, Dj announces his future plans that don't involve GN'R. GN'R doesn't really have any current events going on at this exact moment.



Because they don't all meet in the Bat Cave at the same time?

Seriously, what kind of question is that? Why are people different?
I don't know!

If Richard is on tour, maybe, just maybe, he's focusing on that instead of asking Axl for updates. Maybe Frank asked? Is that possible? :D



/jarmo

But that's not what happened.  For a year, Ron has been dropping hints he's gone, and the band members have been giving different accounts as to what is next for the band.


Well, someone with the band either disagrees with you, or maybe those things are in place. :D

Exactly the point.



Or maybe right now doesn't change the focus of what had just happened with shows....

 :D


/jarmo

I don't get it...

Was ron asked to be quiet by Axl's people or not? and to what extent?

We have no clue... but you know what... I really don't care anymore... I think ron handled it badly, obviously GNR says nothing to us ever... so who knows what they think or what they said. We get a vague statement from this guy Fernando, that he "doesn't agree". Who the hell knows what that means.

Bottom line... he's gone... moving on... next man up right? Somebody else can play Sweet CHild o Mine...and everybody will have a lot of fun at the show.

How is that any different from the way things have always been with this band? Remember 02-06? It's the way it is and things have always worked out in the end....

I wonder if they've been auditioning (or looking for) new guitar players for the past year since Ron left. We didn't hear about the past auditions (both after Bucket and Robin left) while they were going on right?

Maybe there's at least one player already chosen...

Is this what baiting looks like?


I agree.  There will always be the could of done better, should of done it this way, should of done it that way.  Things could of been handled differently, however they weren't and here we are.  I know it isn't ideal, and what's not ideal; gets turned into whatever one's perception of the situation is and then the forums flourish with discussions.

Some of the points made on this Forum or others are read and even the most negative ones help in some way.  I do apologize if updates aren't as frequently as you would like them to be.  But it doesn't mean that there isn't one, just maybe, only maybe that update isn't ready to be made. 

One of my favorite quotes is "3 hour meeting".  That gets me every time. My favorite poster has to be (magisme), if you or anyone ever wondered.

 

Fernando, can you say if the focus now is setting up a new tour or working in the studio? Just a general idea of where the focus is..

That was in response to "If nobody had said a single word other than "no comment".

Thats not my style, just a lighthearded joke based on perceptions that are out there on the forums  :peace:

Gotcha! 

Fernando -

Do you not see that you bring some of this on yourselves with your constant silence and allowing misconceptions to lay out there unchallenged?

You let Ron punk you guys for over a year.  It was made to seem like you were fucking with him. 

What sense does it make not to speak up and correct the record when you are being shit on in the public arena?

well I suppose it takes some time to replace musicians, finding the good ones, the good
chemistry, especially when all the others guys have side projects, not easy to have them
playing with new guys. I hope the future update will concern the new album.

If you only have one side of the debate, that side becomes the perception. Ron said his piece about being forced to tour while having crippling back injuries and bullied by certain band members. GNR's reply? A wall of silence.

The point I was trying to make was...to some of the criticism regarding the remark "I don't understand why he continues to be evasive on his status with the band", TB was accused of throwing Ron under the bus etc.  I don't think they are the ones quoted in the article.  It just says "a confirmed source with the band".

No, it doesn't matter who announced it unless that person is being criticized for what they said.  To be fair.

@Fernando.  Appreciate the post, and a little information goes a long way here.  Hopefully we get some good news, any news soon.

That's just not true. Ron said it was his own decision, he never blamed anyone and was never forced.

Ron also said he was asked not to comment on his situation.  If that's not true, why wouldn't management step up and say so?  By remaining silent, it's a tacit admission that it's true.

Exactly.  And that perception becomes the reality.

There are people to this day that will swear on a stack of biblebooks that Axl forced Slash and Duff to sign a contract or he would not take the stage.  Axl says that's bunk.  Of course, he said it 5 years after the claim when it was already entrenched in the public's view.

Who is that helping?

Yep.  And then they get mad about "lies" being reported.

Well, all due respect...who gave you laryngitis?  If it's wrong, say it's wrong, and say it right then.  Don't let it prosper.

The picture was so implied that it appeared as such at the time when combined with his statement about being bullied upon joining the band, and other complaints about gnr interfering with his solo scheduling. This is the 'perception'. Even his 'do not blame TB' seems somewhat reflective.

When it comes to Ron touring with back pain, I didn't get the impression of him blaming GNR for forcing him to tour. He rather talked about the experience and that it was all up to him to continue touring. Case closed, really.

I don't think that needed a response from GNR management.


The bullying happened early on in Ron's GNR career, and he talked about this publicly years after the fact, if I remember correctly. Not so sure what kind of statement the management should have made after he told that story.. If it was an ongoing thing, happening right now, I would expect some sort of statement. But this was more like "war stories" coming from Ron.




I do agree they could've shut down the rumor mill about Ron leaving much, much sooner. I just can't seem to grasp what really happened there, with conflicting stories and all. But if the recent source confirming Ron's departure isn't management, then I can imagine that source not being aware of any agreement Ron and GNR had when he left.

It's amazing how management/Axl will only speak when the status of the band becomes very very questionable. It's not the smartest way to deal with a frustrated and yet greatly loyal fanbase. Axl should be thankful to have real fans like us, who care about his music, not when he will come to their city to play SCOM and PC. The fans online deserve better. I'm pretty sure Fernando's fingers haven't broken from typing a few words to control damage. It's not that hard.

Management is doing a great job. I don't understand the complains. The band is working on their next projects, where is the problem? Carry on with your own life. They'll talk when they have something to say.

Fernando thank you for your apology and your determination to try to do things better. We are not asking for ideal or perfect situations. All we ask is some update from time to time. It doesn?t have to be any huge announcement.

I give you an example. If yesterday Axl was in the studio recording. Is it too impossible to post a picture of him in the GN?R official Facebook or twitter? Believe me something so simple as that can change the negative mood around forums

I don?t see anything wrong with posting that kind of update. If there is something wrong. Could you please explain what the problem is?

I would say that the top secret policy doesn?t work. One way or another something leaks to the media or forums. Please try to figure out with the band a way to communicate better. After all we?re talking about a rock band. It doesn?t make sense to act like it was the Pentagon or the CIA.

If you want some positive feedback. It was a great idea to get Duff back in band for the South American Tour.  :)  : ok:

 The alleged bullying was early on in his tenure-and he never was forced to tour with back injuries, it was his choice.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=2302

 Well, when I first joined the band, they did not want me in the band. And it's not me - they just didn't want a third guitar player. ?Cause at the time they had worked it out for two guitar players. Then suddenly the old manager at the time hits them up one day, and the tour was, like, two weeks away. He said, ?your new guitar player is coming down?. And they're like, ?what the hell - who the fuck is this??, and I showed up, and they wouldn't even look at me. For that first tour, you know, I was treated like shit. Like absolute shit. They wouldn't really talk to me. If I spoke, they'd roll their eyes and walk out of the room. I was made to feel as unwelcome as possible. Until, finally, I had to get a little violent. And then they started realizing that I'm not gonna leave. They're gonna get hurt.
In what way?
- Physically.
Really?
- Yeah. Then they realized that they couldn't bully me, and that I was gonna fight at a level they weren't prepared for. And then they started loosening up how nasty they were. It was about three years before they would really start warming up and start talking to me. Even about things back then. ?Cause I didn't know why they were so cold to me, and I realized that they would have treated anybody that way. It was a set of circumstances, a lack of communication from the management that was there at the time, that set it up so it was almost like a stranger thrown into a crowded cage.

In late 2011, Thal chose to tour instead of take time off to heal in order "keep Guns N' Roses alive", later stating the decision resulted in him having nerve damage in both arms in addition to chronic pain 'for the rest of [his] life'.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=65518.0

Personally I just do not see the benefit of operating like Area 51 as new gnr have done since the beginning really. I do not know who gains? If he is in the studio, a few online updates from time to time? Most bands post pictures and sometimes have video scrap books. Heck, even before the internet they would let a magazine visit and take a few photographs. How are gnr gaining by repudiating this approach? It is a win win scenario as it closes down speculation and fan negativity while generating future interest for the upcoming release.

All of that basically makes the exact case I was making. Thanks for positing it.

I wonder if Ron found himself further alienated from the band after that interview.  I can't imagine that the other band members were too keen on hearing Ron publicly outing them as bullies and stating that they starting being nice to him only after he threatened to kick their ass.

What if he's not in the studio and there's no pictures to post ?

TREMENDOUS post.

and thats fine... but a lot of the "negative" points raised by people on here seem to be brushed aside as us just being toxic. What my question to you is... will you be sticking around? taking any of this on board and relaying it back so that in future.. just maybe.. things might be a little better? Its an honest question.. and not baiting.

At the end of the day, we are all here because we love Guns.. and Axl Rose for most of us is our favorite frontman/artist yada yada yada... even the negative whingers...

All we want is a bone thrown to us once in a while... its not to much to expect surely?

I was only selecting recording in the studio to make the point I was trying to make about communication but I see where you are going here and it would be a relevant point if Axl had officially retired but we know there is a wealth of material and some notion that this material will be released at some stage. That is essentially where gnr are (for us): there are Chinese leftovers with some vague notion to release another album. Throw on top of that the recent band defections. It is rather like the band have crashed on us like a computer on that command.

Whats with the "could of"?

Is it cool to say it like that or just a lack of english skills?
It looks very fucking stupid

Que?

You are delusional, as well as dreary and toxic. :nervous:

Jarmo... here is another excellent case for a response that needs a like button.

Right?  Jarmo lives under a rock.

Ooh wow a fernando! I've never spotted one of them in the wild before!  ;)

Bit unfair really. His English skills are certainly a lot better than my Portuguese skills.

You forgot ''with self entitlement issues'?

Yep.

Totally out of line comment there.

Fernando!  Can you tell Axl my son Jim says hello?   We are very excited to see you.  My son Jim loves the band but he is very upset about Bumblefoot.  I think he liked Ron Thal the best because of the nickname but he loved him and looked up to him. 

Fernando - serious question...when you're at sound check, does Frank ask if you can hear the drums?

Ha, fuck no. 

Consider it done.

Fernando, can u tell Axl to come talk to us? would make us all happy :D 

Fernando, d? um pedala robinho no axl e fala pra ele agilizar as paradas logo vai, a galera ta meio puta aqui hahahah  :hihi: :peace:

kkkkk

Hopefully the summer is going well and no canyon fires break out.

Nah! I just expressed what I and a lot of fans have been saying many times.

Tremendous is when also a year ago in Fernando?s native soil the whole world saw a 7 to 1 score. The day earth stop turning, history was made. An event only compare to the apocalypse.  And Fernando didn?t issue a statement about that!!! I keep wondering if Fernando is a member of some group therapy with the others... The Messi boys

 :hihi:  ;D

I remember that well. I went into the kitchen for a beer and came back and three goals had been scored!

Well... GNR WorkWorkWork For The Future /// New Guitar x 2 // New Music // Etc

 :smoking:

kkkkkkkk.......

N?o tem como traduzir esta piada para ingl?s...mas no Brasil dizem que torcedor do Santos hoje em dia ? igual F? do Roberto Carlos ( Rei da musica popular Brasileira) , n?o nasce mais s? est?o morrendo kk

I know all too much about information going a long way.  Especially when nothing has been given,  apologies.  Do expect some news from GNR and what we are working on in a few months.  All I can really say.  Though, it says nothing; but hopefully it's something.

Album???
Tour????

Why has everything with Guns N' Roses have to be so secret?? Not your fault Fernando I know.

But why not issue some sort of facebook / twitter statement saying what is going on and stop all these numerous debates as to what is happening.

At least we know they are working on something..... ;D...better something than nothing.

and the debaters are going to debate no matter what is said by the band.

Sounds like new music might just be a possibility.  Fingers crossed!

Why ?

Why This Is Guns N' Roses World

 :smoking:

If the news is an album, I would imagine that a tour is also in the works.

Yeah, welcome to Guns N' Roses World, where fans never know whats going on. Nothing new I guess its always been the same.

Hopefully both. : ok:

Something is as good as nothing until we know what the something is??? :confused:

4EverEver

 : ok:

Fernando, if you can get Axl to drop Chinese 2 (insert title here) you'll see a lot of people forgiving/forgetting the lack of news & communication.  At the end of the day, we're all fans who are chomping at the bit for the next album. If TB can negotiate an album release, they've done their job and then some in my opinion.

I agree.

Which is why I reject the "people will always bitch" routine.  Even taken to the absurd extreme that if we got a new album, we'd immediately start asking about the next one.

Total bullshit.  If we had a new album, it would dominate the boards.

Its the long stretches of silence that lead to the toxic entitlement posts from know it all insider ingrate fake fans, is it not?

I agree.

I think GNR has some of the most loyal fans in the world. They are not the most fan friendly of bands in terms of PR (granted they make up for it in their live performances), yet their fans flock to the message boards daily to see if their is anything new regarding their favorite band.

I've never gotten the mentality of pissing on fans for wanting more though. Isn't that what it's all about? There's a saying in show business "Always leave them wanting more." I guess that doesn't apply to some posters on this site who view fans who are interested in seeing more as demanders and whiners.

That's just me though. Demand is a good thing though. Shows that fans are still interested.

Simplified, yes demand is good.

Did you ever come across a person who started getting on your nerves because he/she just couldn't stop asking for something or other?
But hey, that's not bad or anything, it just means they are interested.... ;)


There's the issue. Interest and demand is great. It's just such a shame that the certain people choose to show this interest in a particular, not positive, way.



/jarmo

I am sad that Bumble leaving finally is official. On The other hand that means more solo stuff from him, and that's good too. Some of the charm with so many ex-members,  is that many of them make quality music on their own. Guns have divided into a whole network of genius fractions giving us highly valuable art. Just think if they could create a festival together.  Guns and ex-gunners in various bands a whole weekend,  of course with Gn'R as headliners.  

All in all it's positive with an official statement,  and great that TB/Fernando taking the time to write here, and confirming there is activity.

Axl should leave a cryptic message on gnr.com announcing the return of some "old, very familar faces", getting the whole world super pumped up, and then end up having a reunion with Paul Huge, Buckethead, and Robin Finck.

Yes, I'm not sure how well that would go...

I get your point...but I've never really seen anyone be blatantly disrespectful (on this board at least) to the band. The fact that this band does very little in terms of PR allows for people to speculate. Every time there's a lull in terms of touring the reunionists start up with there usual speculation. PR wise the band does nothing to squash any of this talk. Social media when used correctly can be a very useful way for bands to stay in touch with their fans.

I've never really gotten the who mindset of I'll be a fan of whatever they do. How can someone possibly say that? To be a true fan do you have to love every move that they make? Like everything they put out?

I'm Happy Whit GNR World

 :beer:

I see it as a coping mechanism.

Since you can't put near enough lipstick on the pig that is this band's absurd bouts of prolonged inactivity, we then criminalize the question.

Only "real fans" are patient.  Only "real fans" don't ask inconvenient questions.  Only "real fans" don't want updates as to what their favorite band is up to.

Segments of our fanbase criminalize anything that sheds an uncomfortable light in any direction, so we then spend out time talking about the fans themselves and not the actual topic that started it all : what is this band doing?

Its Deflection 101.  And about as logical as believing in shape shifting races of alien lizard people.

Maybe they just aren't interested in working overtime to paint everything in a positive light.

Some things in life are bummers.  It's OK to say it out loud when that's the case.

In actual fact, one sacrifices credibility when you cannot ever bring themselves to do so.

Weird to see this...

Ex-GUNS N' ROSES Guitarist RON 'BUMBLEFOOT' THAL: Me And My Guitar (Video)

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ex-guns-n-roses-guitarist-ron-bumblefoot-thal-me-and-my-guitar-video/

Even weirder for the people saying "who the fuck is Ron Thal and when was he ever in Guns N' Roses?"

Right?   : ok:

Fernando, without getting into specifics, would it be fair to say that the next announcement will be regarding the forthcoming release?  Surely you can give us THAT much lol.  :yes:

If you have years of nothingness, you cant blame people for taking a negative tone.
Not everyone lives in a bubble like certain people.

I know lots of people find the lack of updates frustrating. But then again, the bitching and personal attacks against bandmembers or managment is just silly. People have big problems, huh? At the end of the day this is just music. Not politics or orher things that affect your life. GNR have done alot of touring, released a live DVD, done interviews, updated the fanclub and post regulary on theyr facebook site. What more should they do? Music is art, and the artist should spend the amount of time he needs before he gives updates. Its the same Thing whit Tool. They havent released an album since 2006, and dont give that much updates on the album progres. Then again, i also think that its great that people are entusiastic and starving for more! But when this ends up with ugly comments and frustrating reactions on a messageboard i think people should find better things to do, coz that dont do any good for anyone. Oh yeah, i would like more updates about things happening, but its not up to me to demand. I enjoy listening to GNR music and lots of other bands out there, so thats what im doing while im waiting for GNRs next step!

 : ok:

Bubble Boy is a great movie though.

I am sad that Bumble leaving finally is official. On The other hand that means more solo stuff from him, and that's good too. Some of the charm with so many ex-members,  is that many of them make quality music on their own. Guns have divided into a whole network of genius fractions giving us highly valuable art. Just think if they could create a festival together.  Guns and ex-gunners in various bands a whole weekend,  of course with Gn'R as headliners.  

All in all it's positive with an official statement,  and great that TB/Fernando taking the time to write here, and confirming there is activity. It's best we all do the same, stop whining over What's been done and enjoy exciting times like someone here said in another thread.

Thanks Fernando for giving us what little updates you are allowed to.  It is much appreciated, and keeps the hope alive that there are still great things to come.  The crazy part is that we know that new music exists?and has for awhile?yet, for whatever reason, it can?t/won?t get released.  Mr. Blue has probably heard it all, too.  That lucky dog!

True. But the facebook page? Its a joke. If i want pictures of cats and babies, i go to buzzfeed. Dont need that in gnrs page. Its ridiculous.

Thats not GNR fault, its facebooks.. thats what that site is about...
But does it matter? why even care? lots of artists posts everyday thing over there..

Then unfollow the page, do you need an instruction manual for that?   :hihi:

Ay Caramba!

John Travolta Is God

 :hihi:

Im glad bbf is gone. He was obviously dissatisfied with his relations with Axl/status in the band, and I wish him good luck with his projects. I am sort of suprised he did not leave sooner, judging by his interviews.

as for Ashba, I think the band might be loosing a lot in the "energy" department, since he was a great crowd pleaser. As for the music... I cant judge his impact on the band, since nothing has been released. Live, I preffered Finck... since I've always liked his aura  :'(

Thank you Fernando by take care him.

Come to Portugal.  :peace:

It's like Skydog pointed out, certain people see most things in a negative way. Or just choose to focus on that.

And I've never understood the "I'll support my alleged favorite band online if this and that, and that, changes more to my liking, but until then I'll remain negative" mindset. :)


/jarmo

That merely brings up the question on how anyone can possibly interpret two band defections in a smallish space of time and one gigantic lack of new material, which does not seem to be rectifying itself anytime soon, in a 'positive way' - granted some people here were 'excited' by Ashba's announcement which makes me wonder whether all sanity and reasoning has completely vanished from the Guns N' Roses fanbase.

Yes!

This is the most important thing when it comes to good music; it's something that you can not force out of you or anybody else. When it happens it happens. And you can not tell anyone what kind of music one should do, because one should always do what ever one feels like doing. Tough luck if someone else does not like it.

For me, I'd take one amazing album over ten bad ones any day.

As an outsider, is that how you feel?
It's been established already that you're not really part of the fanbase.  :hihi:

Anyway, some people see change as progress.

Others think of it as bad, no matter what it is. Because, for someone like you, anything relating to GN'R is bad by default and you really have to force yourself to see something GN'R related as good. We know this much. :)





I agree with this.





/jarmo

I'm taking a wait n see approach to these "changes".

I have no personal attachment to anybody involved in this production other than Axl, so whether or not both lead guitar players quit, the bassist, the drummer whoever, I won't lost any sleep.

However, I don't view both guitar players basically saying enough is enough as a positive in any way, but if they left because they are not part of the upcoming release by Axl... then hip hip hooray that they are gone!

So like I said... "wait n see" is about all we can do at the moment. (granted, we all know way too much about wait n see with Axl)

Even though Fernando is not really authorized or in the position to say much of anything, I appreciate as a fan following Axl, him stopping by and at least trying to ease any concerns people here have.

AND...

if anybody of importance is reading this.... no new touring guitarists please!

Robin or Bust !  :D

Two words:  Blind faith.

Like ive said(written) many times before.

GN'R has always done things the GN'R way, and so far the end product (albums, gigs) have been better than great, so im just waiting to see what happens next, no need to rush a release, no need to do webisodes every week or whatever.

I think they know what to do.


Anyway im kinda bummed that Bumblefoot is truly gone, he will be hard to replace, all the fretless stuff ect.

Two words: Track record.

Every new thing, every new member, has brought something new to the mix which has kept GN'R evolving. Some hate it, others don't.

I haven't been disappointed with GN'R. Never.
So yeah, I have faith in these events being handled and then something will come out of it. As I said, track record.




/jarmo

Exactly.

I guess we disagree on the latter point. I think that the fact that people come to message boards on fan sites to look for news about their favorite bands shows their support. I don't think that the majority of people (except the few trolls) who question certain methods are not supporting the band. Then again I don't view questioning things as negative. It's what we do as humans. I think the fact that they aren't more vocal PR wise only adds to people coming to these sites and speculating on what's going on with the band.  

I kind of found it weird that they didn't even acknowledge the departure of DJ Ashba. Even a message thanking him for his services and contributions would have gone far PR wise.

In a way, yes. In another way, no.

It shows they have some kind of interest enough to spend time talking about it.

Is it all good? No.

But then again, there's other ways to support the band. Like buying the records, tickets and so on. A lot of real fans don't take part on these fan sites, but they support the band. :)



/jarmo

If belonging to that fanbase requires the abandoning of all objective faculties and reasoning to a ''puppy dog tails and bunny rabbits'' na na land fantasy, I'm rather pleased to not belong to that fanbase.


I do not see how anyone can believe the endless band member defections as anything but a bad thing. They firstly led to the demise of arguably the last great rock n' roll band. It secondly tore apart the 1999-2002 line-ups which were bands loaded with 'potential' talent. Any momentum in the new gnr era has swiftly unraveled as a consequence of band members leaving. I cannot see subsequent line ups as a symbol of 'progress', more a patching together, making the best of a bad thing. 


In my defense, you have never seen me operate under a situation in which new albums are released.

I have to agree.  It's appreciated.

And, as we always seem to find ourselves saying at times like this, look how much people perk up when we are just given even a little nugget.  It never hurts.

Depends on how you look at it though. I don't think that BBF or DJ ever got a chance to bring something new into the mix. Unless you count what they brought to the live show experience in which they were great. So they haven't really evolved musically since CD came out. Was it an evolution from UYI to CD? Yes and no. It wasn't the same band. Totally new members with the exception of Axl. So in essence I always viewed it as Axl evolving.

I find it impossible to consider DJ or Ron as official members of the band.

They never brought one thing to the table creatively that was released under the GNR banner.  Or weren't allowed, take your pick.  But either way, they made zero mark or any meaningful contribution to the legacy by which the band Guns N' Roses will be judged.

They played on some songs other people came up with for Axl Rose to sing live.  If they are big time members, so was Teddy Zig-Zag.

If DJ/BF's recruitment represented 'progress' in some way, presumably there would have been some creative surge of recording and writing. The reality is we are still dealing with a situation in which the majority of Axl's creative backlog consists of material recorded over ten years ago, written and recorded by Buckethead and Robin.

It shows Axl was inspired, at least once upon a time.

He just obviously never saw that potential in DJ or Ron.  And if he didn't, why should we?

Just one niggling, nitpick:

Appetite for Democracy was definitely released under the GnR banner.

There were also a TV broadcast or two that featured them, definitely done under the GnR banner.

I know, I know...you're going to fall back on the "creatively" piece of the sentence, above..but I think playing live is "creative" in the sense that it's very much performance art.

And yes, as I acknowledged, it's a nitpick.

I know we keep assuming that what's "out there" is JUST CD2, circa 10 years ago.

But...are we so sure that's a safe assumption anymore?  That that's ALL the material they have?  And, even considering, that one or both of these players haven't contributed "improvements" to that material?

I mean...we don't really KNOW, do we?  Even the most recent discussions have been vague in terms of what the material they're considering for release actually is. Right?

Reading hundreds of their interviews, I've never gotten the impression of any serious attempts at recording or writing. I suppose the last were when Bumblefoot added his overdubs.

A *shameless* nitpick, good sir. 

Yes we know, you wear it like some badge of honor.  :hihi:

What you mean is: If belonging to a fanbase means I'd have to start looking at things in a bit more positive light rather than moan about everything, then I'm pleased to not belong to that group.




Well, maybe it took Steven being fired for the band to be able to record two albums at once? I mean, is that a result from the situation with the previous drummer? Did it have an effect on the output?
If so, then you might say something good came out of Steven being out of the band.

It's just a hypothetical question, I don't know if that is the case or anything.

Just giving you an example of how something look horrible to you, as usual, but if you use a little bit of free thinking, you can see something else.





Correct. I'd be shocked if one album had such an effect on you.
And if it does, what does it say about you?  :D



/jarmo

I think we know.  Deep down, we know. 

But for whatever reason, we look for devil's advocate positions that argue against all good sense.

I'm actually not trying to argue either one. Not vociferously, anyway.  It's just something that's been rattling around, lately.

I'm just saying I'm not sure that we're not sure. Not really.

I mean, in Oct '14, DJ was saying they'd written a TON of music, but hadn't gotten a chance to record a lot of it.  And that Axl had 2 albums worth of recorded stuff that "might" make it on the new album..and he hoped he got a chance to put some of his touches on that material, too.

There's lots of little stuff like that, that's floated around.  That's just the one that floats to the top, first.

I don't know how much of that's been going on for the past...oh...decade.   With potentially sporadic trips to the studio, or track exchanging.

I'm not saying it's gospel that there's other material ready to go.  I'm asking...are we more sure than not that ONLY the CD2 stuff is what's ready to roll out.

If I had to bet an amount of money that was important to me, it would not be that if another album ever comes out, its going to contain much of anything written or recorded post 5/12/2006.

An overdub here or there done after that date?  Sure.  Anything substantive?  No.

In other words, DJ and Ron ultimately moved on without making any real mark on the GNRverse.  Save perhaps being a trivia answer to stump someone at a bar.

The other thing that is a possibility is that while we have heard from Ron and DJ that seem to have been removed a bit from the creative process, that doesn't mean the creative process stopped. I know it is not all exactly proven fact but if you read the Chinese Whispers site, there were points where Axl had a shadow lineup in the background just working on new material. It's possible that operating model continues. After all they were in the studio at some point recently (Axl's picture of the spectre above the mixing board).

Ron played on almost every CD track....DJ isn't on any tracks that we know of. 

Big diffeence between Ron and DJ at this point.

- The sound of GNR going forward will lean more against Chinese than the old sound.

Frank

Pd. Style ASHBA Out Here

 :smoking:

See, this is the difference between us. I do not constantly analyse my posting output in accordance with some positive-negative barometer. To me I'm neither being positive nor negative. I'm being objective and honest.


Well it meant work could resume on Illusions which had been in limbo because of Adler's issues but many regretted the loss of Steven's style including Izzy and segments of the fanbase. Guns tried everything to resolve the issue up to the point of sacking which was a last resort. It is a circular argument really. I cannot really call it 'progress' though. It was more about 'necessity'. It could only be labelled 'progress' if Steven's sacking pertained to stylistic reasons.


It would say that I see albums as inherent to being a legitimate fully-functioning band! Sorry but I've never been interested in strictly 'golden oldies' acts.

I would go through the same process of any album I have been excited for. The initial excitement stage followed by the early listening period followed by some degree of analyse. If it stinks I will label it as a 'stinker'. If it is a masterpiece then I will label it so. Most albums fall in between those two extremities.

And Teddy Andreas played on a number of UYI tracks. It doesn't mean he 'added' anything to them. What we don't know is if either of them contributed to the follow up in anyway.

Ron added multiple solos and riffs to a bunch of songs.....read the liner notes. He also said he played on a lot of unreleased material s well. Atlas Shrugged being just one...he is definitely on Going Down as well. DJ likely is on zilch.

please show me which UYI tracks Zig Zag played on? :hihi:

Just live, as far as I can recall.

Isn't that Mike Monroe doing the harmonica on 'Bad Obsession' on the album?

Zig Zag played on nada....yes to Monroe.

I may have screwed that up from memory, but I could have sworn he has a credit or two on the album, which is why he was pulled for the live shows. This wouldn't be my first creative remembering in history.

Your so called honesty is a result of your wish to appear objective. Is it honest when your "goal" is to appear objective? Not really.
I'm glad you have such high thoughts about yourself though. But I'd let others describe you instead of using that kind of words about yourself in public. But that's just me.




So, you're now saying something good came out of a bad event?  :o






This coming from an AC/DC fan.... I'm sure somebody can see the humor in it. :D



/jarmo

Hahaha.  We've all done it.

I had never heard of the guy.  Before, or since, really. 

Anyone know the connection that got him the gig?

How do you think you appear?  I'm curious. 

I wouldn't go as far as to call you dishonest, because that implies malice, which I do not see.  But you aren't the least bit objective.

Is that how you see yourself though?

I would think a fairer description would be to label you an advocate.  Would you have a problem with that label?

AC/DC put out albums. The last twenty years they have put out four albums to Axl's measly one.

GNR Is Unique & Special

 :smoking:

You don't find that a lazy argument and/or excuse?

Is there a situation where you can't just throw that out there to try and deflect and explain away something inconvenient?

In other words, in your opinion, is there a situation where someone could throw that out there and you would sort of shake it off and say it doesn't really address the question?

Or is it always a winner?

Loyal maybe?

And whatever else label you wanna put on somebody who's ran a GN'R fan site for almost 19 years....



/jarmo

Yeah, they do. But you said golden oldies.
Why do people go see them live?
It's not exactly because of Black Ice or whatever... Hint: Golden oldies.

:)



/jarmo

Possibly; Black Ice was a huge success. What I meant by 'golden oldies' was a band who refuse to put out albums and subsist merely as a nostalgia Vegas act.

Hopefully it wasn't his time in Jessie and the Rippers (Full House Reference)

Pretty great read.

Please excuse Mortis... It's the same thing with him every day.

Ah yes. Putting out albums that sound like each other really makes you not part of that scene... Got it!



/jarmo

Dude...you should get a Karma point for that.

No question.  Reference of the day right there.

Somewhat correct in that assumption. AC/DC fans have new albums to buy and enjoy. Isn't that a wonderful thing? Most bands in fact do this except for Elvis Tribute Acts and Guns N' Roses.

Yes yes.

Like it was pointed out earlier today, quality over quantity.... :)


And why are you here exactly again?



/jarmo

The problem is not so much 'quantity' as 'anything at all'. One album in twenty-four years.

Heck, DC are not even very prolific to make the argument of ''too many hasty releases''.

You didn't answer the one question asked.

Your attempts at trolling are pointless.  :-*



/jarmo

I think I've answered that same question of yours about five or six times now.

people criticize both the Guns n Roses
Chinese Democracy that sold 10M worldwide and say that failure is a fashionable band sells 3M and is successful

They say it because they are one of the biggest names in all of rock, but the album made zero impact.

No one can tell you a song.  Nothing ever entered the public consciousness.  When you hear GNR is coming up after the next commercial break, you know damn well its not anything from CD.

Its like that old joke about Billy Ray Cyrus : If 10 million people own that album...how come I don't know one of them?

It didn't sell anywhere near 10,000,000 worldwide...maybe 3,000,000 which is still pretty good.

But thats the same with black ice, and death magnetic. I don't know lots of songs titles from these albums either. I think this is more because people don't sit down and read booklets like they used to before. Hey buy it online and listen to it.. its more like.. i like song nr. 3, 8 and 9 very good! Its sad, but thats how it is these days. People still listen to it, but they don't remember the song titles.

I will never be accused of being an Axl rumpswab, but that is a terrible example. I am a huge AC/DC fan, and yes I buy everything they put out, but lets be honest since Razors edge in 1990-91 there has maybe been 1-2 OK songs on each album. You are going to see them for Past Catalog. Chinese Democracy isn't my favorite GnR album front to back, but in my opinion the following tracks are better than anything AC/DC or any other 'nostalgia' act has put out while simply releasing albums to release albums:
CD, Better, TWAT, Catcher, Street of Dreams, IRS, Maddy, This I Love (and maybe Prostitute).

Now this might be viewed as a bad comparison also due to the differing genre's, but Maroon 5 (sorry my wife listens to them which means I listen to them by proxy) has put out 5 albums since 2004 almost one every 2 years or so... but they have several chart toppers from each album. I get it they aren't everyone's cup of tea but Adam and James (Guitar) actually write some decent songs... they are where I get a little jealous from a fan base perspective thinking that it's just been 1 GnR album to their 5 albums... makes me a little sad wondering what we may have lost in a genius songwriters prime 94-08 while he was mired down in the business aspect of the band...

But what we got in 08 was very very good, and honestly sold well considering how the BB launch and other things that were handled pre TB got botched. Merks handling of the band and it's immediate follow up was nearly criminal how almost maliciously bad it went.

That's not how I see it happen, take the booklet out of it. No one downloads full albums anymore. It is a singles market these days. If the song doesn't get airplay it doesn't get downloaded... and for CD you are talking about 2008 (7 years ago)... people were still buying CD's then.

It all goes back to the management at the time (Merk and his followup were a disaster)... that could have been the worst handled release ever. There was never an aggressively pushed single, there wasn't a video (I know MTV doesn't play videos but look at VEVO November Rain has 412,000,000 views)... What happened to the Harley Ad? All of these things kept CD from the 'casual' fan.

Black Ice is actually one of my favourite AC/DC albums. Rock or Bust is also great. Ballbreaker and SUP are less good but still solid enough albums. I've actually really liked DC's post Razor's Edge output. On the whole I would rate it better than their 1980s (post Back in Black) output.

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

I would largely agree.

What I don't know, however, is if you said similar things to fanbases of AC/DC and Metallica about those albums, if they also flip the fuck out and really get their backs up and insist they were actually successful.  Then start asking you why you are here, and so forth.

That is what I do not know.  I know we have members of our crew that get VERY emotional when you try and say those things.  I'm not sure other band's fanbases follow suit.

The criticism is because Axl threw him under the bus and accused him of fucking certain things up.

When Axl is down on you, he has fans that get down at that same exact moment.

I thought Merck was a mixed bag, personally.

The production of Death Magnetic was universally panned by the fan base to the extent that fans began producing their own remasters of it online. Can you imagine that here, if events like that happened with gnr? ''Why your toxicity and negativity?'' ''Go away''. I can just imagine a comment by Emily going something like, ''arm chair producers who think they know better than the band''.

Hahaha

Yeah, that would be a scene around here.

If Fernando wants to confirm anything, feel free...

My understanding of the situation was that Merck was making moves and interacting with people on behalf of the band and Axl without their guidance, then spinning it back to the band or covering it up to look like something else. He was also using the band as one of his 'chips' to further his role in Sanctuary Music (which obviously collapsed under its amazing leadership).

He also focused on the wrong shit... I like the transparency we get when Fernando or Beta post on the forums, but that is different then getting your panites in a bunch over what forum member is bringing what model cell phone to a concert and fighting with him in the forum and over gmail about it (darknemus).

Not trying to take a shot at Beta or Fernando, but if they have ever given us anything on the level of Merck's open letter...well, I must have been in the can.

Whats this thing about "giving us?" What do we want? New music, right? Maybe a tour in the future.. Guns N Roses makes the music, we go to a GNR concert to see GNR not Beta or Fernando.. (No offence^^ Im sure you guys can make music too  :-* and i wouldn't mind meet you both, but I'm sure u understand my point) New music is ready when its ready.. There is nothing Team Brazil can do directly in that case. There has been some hinting about news coming in a few months.. ain`t that enough?

I don't need an open letter from Team Brazil.. what i need them to do is manage GNR, and release news when news is ready.. And I'm sure they are doing a great job in that regards..

Here is the point I was making.  Making I wasn't clear.

When Merck wrote that letter, what was the reaction?  When Axl wrote his letter, what was the reaction?  In both cases, there is huge mix of thanks, relief, and renewed excitement.

The most overheard comment after something like that some variation of how even I had begun to waver, but now I feel more encouraged. 

And the point I'm making is that TB has never done anything like that.  I think it would do them a world of good.  Everytime there is some communication, the mood around here (and even other forums) perks up big time.

I am quite sure we don't know all the shit that went down with Merck...open letters or not...crazy shit.  :nervous: Side publishing deals, merchandising, lawsuits, tuesdays....too funny or disturbing...you choose.  :hihi:

Don't get me started on Merck.  That guy was full of BS.  Isn't he in jail?  Last I heard, there were a few warrants out for his arrest.

This is so far behind me that I don't even know what tuesdays is..?  Sorry, I am new.

How is to live with Axl man? he sings in the shower? Did you catch him dancing a Britney Spears song, you look each other, he cursed you and ran to the kitchen?

There's 13 Tuesdays left in 2006....

Great, you loved that album.  And you like some of their other albums as well.  There are people who loved CD as well.  Both were successful.  I love how you continuously claim CD wasn't succesful.  Why, because YOU didn't like it as much?  The numbers speak for themselves!  It was one of best selling rock albums at the time.  Is that not success?  Or does GNR have to be #1 for you to think they are successful?  I'm not even sure what you are arguing.  Are you saying ACDC is a better band because they put out more music?  Yeah, they have....so go to their web pages and suck their dicks.  

And DX's point about CD not making an impact or having songs that stood out.  Like someone else pointed out....neither did black ice.  I can't tell you one song off that album that I hear regularly on the radio or anywhere else.  So what's your definition of "huge" success?

Your expectations for GNR 20 plus years after they ruled the world, and after losing band members, is extremely too high.

I have claimed in the past - although not in this topic - that CD sold averagely. I do not see any reason to alter that position if we accept the fact that Black Ice is the best example of an analogy (it was released the same year and in roughly the same genre).

Fundamentally I like bands who release music. That is my point. One album in twenty four years is pathetic.


Since I've never made that point I can only conclude that you are confusing me with someone else!

I don't live with Axl, so I wouldn't know about his showering routine.  However, one time I walked into Jarmo showering and that is exactly what he was doing.  Strange.

haha sorry, I tho you guys lived in his house (my bad).
Hey Jarmo, baby one more time?

Gimme, Baby, One More Times !!!

 :rofl: :hihi: :rofl:

I have claimed in the past - although not in this topic - that CD sold averagely. I do not see any reason to alter that position if we accept the fact that Black Ice is the best example of an analogy (it was released the same year and in roughly the same genre).

Fundamentally I like bands who release music. That is my point. One album in twenty four years is pathetic.

[/quote]

Then why are you here?  You said it yourself, "one album in twenty four years is pathetic". Doesn't seem like GNR fits with you

Emily knows that armchair is one word  :-*

Then why are you here?  You said it yourself, "one album in twenty four years is pathetic". Doesn't seem like GNR fits with you
[/quote]

Great observation and reply  : ok:

Moaning mortis needs to go infect an AC/DC forum.

 :-[

I just wanna sing like you did on Idols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WHQsPq_ras
That was you in your blonde days right? ;)



This has been asked many times.  :hihi:




/jarmo

...and answered many times. I see no reason to repeat myself.

It's ironic how you feel like repeating your negative "honest objectivity" over and over again though innit?



/jarmo

If it sounds repetitive it is because there is really nowhere to go with this band until they decide to release new material.

Here is Mortismurphy's Theme song:

Gloom despair and agony on me: http://youtu.be/lHcEWhbQkEg
 :rofl: :hihi:

Hahahaha

A good burn is a good burn, mortis.

Repetitive is what you could call AC/DC.... :D



/jarmo

Got a real hard headache allready from all those bad vibes from people here ... that they call themself "Fans"...

Sick Irony...
Go ahead and ruin other bands message boards like:

Nirvana
system of a down
Faith no more... or other haters or poeple that don't like the Vision of Axl/GN'R because a jealousy or whatever reason

You figure "jealousy", that's the best bet?

Out of curiosity, how would you sum up Axl's vision since the relaunch?  Do you think he's nailed it?

Do you have something against AC/DC? You are only talk about this group in a negative way. Correct me if I am wrong.

Rather ironic actually considering Axl was such a big fan of the band.

mortis used them as an example one time.  Jarmo didn't care for it (or mortis, for that matter) so he brings it up all the time.

If you notice, AC/DC only comes up in response to something mortis said.

If Jarmo has a beef with you, and I can tell you this firsthand, the odds are 100% he latches on to a few phrases or examples you made that one time...and refrences them over, and over, and over again.

Nothing against them at all. Great band.

Just having some fun with the resident AC/DC troll who likes to come here and post about how great AC/DC are, but has real trouble saying anything nice about GN'R. But hey, it's just his honest opinion.





/jarmo

To be fair, mortis has brought up ACDC himself way more than one time.

Don't say that! You'll ruin his idea that I'm the one doing all that and mortis is the poor victim!

 :hihi:



/jarmo

Yes, I wouldn't compare them too. Two different bands, two different ways of work.

To be fair, not in awhile. I usually don't need to bring them up since Jarmo introduces them at the earliest opportunity. It is somewhat an obsession with him, me being the official 'AC/DC guy'.

Oh, he absolutely has.

But I would say the percentage of total AC/DC mentions on this entire board is about 99% contained to fights between mortis and Jarmo.

AC/DC is just a pawn in that jihad.

It's been longer since you had a nice thing to say about GN'R though.
Something to think about kids!


I need to calm down, I'm so upset right now according to those two experts.... :D



/jarmo

No, I would like you to repeat yourself.  First off, I myself have never heard the answer.  And secondly, since you repeatedly whine about this band, I think it's only fair to repeatedly give us the answer of why your here?  Until you stop whining, why should it be any other way. 

 :hihi:  a good burn is a good burn Jarmo

Why are you so quick to respond?  Do you feel as though he's talking to you?  Maybe stop whining

I'm just asking a question about something he said, ace.

What about you?  Same questions to you.