Here Today... Gone To Hell!

The latest Billboard 200 has Appetite For Destruction on #161.

Anyone know when it last charted in the US? I know Greatest Hits resurfaces from time to time.

'Greatest Hits' hung for a long time.  Sold way more than I expected.

Think it moved almost 3 million copies here in the U.S.

You're off by two million.
It was certified 5x platinum in 2011.


/jarmo

Wow.  That's nuts in this day and age.

Guess a lot of people needed 'Sympathy For The Devil'.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic...




/jarmo

It was charting on Billboard last week I believe

I was actually always a big fan of their rendition of 'Sympathy For The Devil', it's a shame the history attached to that track.

 

The sound of a band breaking up, pretty much in real time....

Of course outside of the whole sound of implosion I do wish they stopped recording just before the whole 'Milk Boy, save us Milk Boy, Don't forget to drink your milk' part at the end.

I actually like Guns' version of Sympathy better than original. Ditto for all the covers on Spaghetti. Guns did the songs better than the originals IMO.

 : ok:

I think the song was a good example of how a GN'R sounding cover version of the song would sound.


My comment about the sarcasm was in reference to the comment about people needing the song. I'm pretty sure, but without any real sources, that the album isn't aimed at people who only want to hear that song. So therefore the comment about fans buying it just for that seems odd to me. Greatest Hits compilations are usually not aimed at the hardcore fans who have everything already. Especially this one without any unreleased tracks.




/jarmo

I remember calling a local FM Station and requesting Sympathy..Hours latter I was driving around with friends when they played my phone call followed by the song...I was about embarrassed at being one those "losers" requesting to hear a song, but fortunately my friends didn't pick up on the call..Times have changed, now you can usually instantly purchase a song online, get it on YouTube or numerous other sites...Back in the day a new song on a Greatest Hits album was a way to up sells...Think Motley Cr?e and Primal Scream....

How many times have you bought Appetite?

I know i had the tape, twice, the CD, iTunes (for convenience I repurchased all GNR on iTunes) and I just bought the Vinyl a couple months back to hang on the wall (artwork really).  So that is 5 times for me and one purchase within the last few months.

I wonder the cause behind the re-surge in popularity (where popularity means it showing on the Billboard 200)?

I really thought with the great sales of The Greatest Hits it would negatively affect sales of guns previous back catalogs.  I don't think it ever did.  As sales have always been strong for afd. 

At the time I was so sick of another guns n roses cover song.    They had just released a whole album of covers and before that two albums with a couple of covers on them.  I always wanted to just hear original guns music

However

Now I would love to hear anything hahah. So if they released a bunch of cover songs again I would not complain nana

I wonder what caused a surge in sales? Axl's letter & tweets? Slash touring? Duff's new book.

Perhaps Beatrazr releasing Johnnyblazer.  :rofl:

Not to totally change the subject, but I remember doing the same thing for that song, then much later on repeatedly calling and emailing into KNAC Online to get the to play 'Oh My God'... you could get the MP3, but there was still something about getting a DJ to play it.

or the Beyonce effect  ;D

http://perezhilton.com/cocoperez/2015-05-06-beyonce-guns-n-roses-jeans-new-york-street-style

nice!

I think I'm right in saying those jeans are Taverniti. Almost identical to a pair Axl used to wear.

Beatrazr. thats it ;D


Ive been casually looking at billboard 200, last week and the weeks before for a few months gnr greatest hits has been around position 150.

So the only thing changed is the album. the sales have never stopped.

I would have to strongly disagree with that!  :no:

I think you're right, but a little off. Certainly greatest hits aren't marketed for just one song. But, there are going to be completists who do buy it for just one song. Granted the ratio will certainly be low, but I wouldn't necessarily discount it as it's probably no skin of the band's back to throw a "new" song onto a greatest hits album.


Regarding your first statement: "I think the song was a good example of how a GN'R sounding cover version of the song would sound."

It's funny, when I first heard the Jane's Addiction cover of Sympathy I thought it was very reminiscent of what GnR's version would be like and always wondered how it would sound if they ever did cover it - never thinking they would. Then, of course, years later they did, and the version was certainly not what I heard in my head when I pictured them recording it. In the end, the GnR version grew on me but I wasn't that keen to it the first few times around.

Anyhoo, my two cents.

Yes, of course you got those collectors who want everything.

But compared to a compilation with that song versus let's say a previously unreleased song. Then there'd be something nobody had heard before.
This is often the case with these compilations.

Then you have an incentive for everybody to buy it. Not just the fans who collect.



/jarmo

Appetite For Destruction places at #136 this week... climbing towards the top!  ;)

Maybe people are buying it before it's withdrawn because the biggest song on the album is apparently a copy of a well known Australian super smash hit from the 80s.

<end sarcasm>

 :hihi:


/jarmo

I assume Slashs interview and Duffs book are behind the recent surge.

I heard it. I dont think it sounds anything like SCOM.

Not sure. Master Of Puppets, Metallica and Slippery When Wet are also charting. Could be some classic rock albums campaign going on.

It's a stretch.

But, this is what that 'Blurred Lines' suit has wrought.

Correct. iTunes has GN'R's AFD and Greatest Hits on sale along with plenty of other classic rock albums.

Not sure about those two though.



/jarmo

Are we to believe that GNR were influenced by a song that was a minor hit in Australia, pre-internet, when music wasnt as accessible as today?
Gotta be purely coincidental.

It definitely is coincidence. I heard the song. There are some slightly similarity to it. However, it's missing a lot. Actually got into a little debate with fans of that bands.

Excelent:

- AFDestruction
- AFDemocracy
- Greatest Hits

 :smoking:

Appetite has fallen out of the Billboard 200, but Greatest Hits has taken over by re-entering at #109.

Beyonce has the greatest t-shirt.....OF ALL TIME!

(http://www.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1272104!img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/kanye25f-5-web.jpg)

I think the re-entering to Top 200 is 4 the "new famous people" dressed with gnr shirts and stuff. I remember when Axl weared a Deep Purple or a Thin Lizzy shirt... and i said : i have to listen that.

GN'R Greatest Hits is at number 60 this week.

Awesome!

GH entered the list in January and has stayed there in the past weeks.

Appetite is on sale for $7.99 on iTunes. Classic Rock sale.  That helps along with the reunion news I'm sure. Great deal for those who don't have one of the greatest albums of all time.

You would think anyone over the age of 20 or so would own this album... but with rock being an afterthought in today's market I wouldn't be surprised.

AFD is the greatest album post 1985. Maybe Nevermind touches it.

Nobody owns it while everyone has of course heard it or least of it. I just started to think that I've probably never bought it myself. But I bought six CDs so we're even :peace:

you should correct that to read:  Nobody admits to owning it while everyone has of course.  :hihi:

Gypsy Note:  I hear-by assert my fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination.  :-X 

Skid Row's Slave to The Grind sends its regards!  :beer: :hihi:

Not even remotely in the same universe... but a nice album all the same.

GH out of the chart...

Appetite has re-entered at #154.

Good News

 : ok:

Appetite climbs to #138 this week.

Wonder if we'll see a significant gain in performance once the shows come around. If so, wonder how high they might climb...

GH with a re-entry at #156 while Appetite exits.

nice to see the GH selling 2-5k copies a week.

AFD is at #160 this week.

Awesome.

So Adler and Izzy get a nice raise in their royalty payments without having to lift a finger, not bad. 

Yeah true.

I'm assuming it was around 2-5k copies.

So they roughly will take in 2-3k each for doing nothing.

I wonder what the effect of Coachella will be sales wise. That's a whole new demographic and with the current day social media reach the exposure will be way bigger than this weekend. That will move some numbers I expect.

Looking forward to the GH 2 now

I cant wait! I am going this weekend. after seeing them in vegas they should dominate this weekend! I even think the Throne helps with winning the crowd this weekend. I guess it is mostly my demo (I am 27) and really not a GNR crowd. but from what I have seen on social media last few days people are pumped. I am headed there with 11 friends and id say 2 or 3 know more then 5 songs but the others who aren't even fans are now excited cant wait!!!!!

also just purchased one of Axls hats! ha! love it

I do not want a Greatest Hits... they could only include 1 song off of CD for that.

So it wouldn't be any different than the one we already have. The Greatest Hits we already have is definitive for GnR. It's perfect. All the best hit songs, and "Sympathy" which wasn't easily availible on cd right?

The need a comprehensive "Best Of" or "Ultimate" or "Definitive" Gn'R.

I would go with "Best Of" for the titling. They'd sell 2-3 million easy.

What if it included a NEW song or two?

Personally that is what I think will happen, or what should happen anyways.

Disc 1 - 14 tracks
Disc 2 - 14 tracks (2 new songs)

That would drive sales in the 4-5 Million range. If they released it this summer. ARound June or so.

Wouldn't take that long to do it ya know... people act like it's some act of God or something.

Just pick the songs... give ideas for art etc... then most importantly hammer out 2 new songs that you are proud of... then drop it. It would sale, make them money money and it would be something fresh in the air.

CD was barely fresh when it hit in 2008, and now almost 8 years later... it's old news. They need something new.

I'm not so sure we'll get new music so soon. I mean, I'd love it obviously. But these shows are selling themselves and seem to be the main focus right now, and understandably so. I wouldn't expect anything new until this round of touring is finished, whenever that may be. I'd expect dates all across the world to follow. Maybe when all that is done they'll move onto phase two.

Yeah that makes sense and is probable... but why not?

Would take too much time to record 2 new songs and put together a definitive best of.

We all act like Gn'R putting something out is this huge great feat.

2 songs man. I hope something like this could be done.

Or I'd take a 28 song best of set. with no new songs

8 AFD, 2 Lies, 12 UYI, 2 TSI and 4 CD songs, perfect. Makes 28 tracks.... make a thick booklet with band member thoughts or a box set set up with a book or something. They could really bank on this. And I know I'd eat it up.

Oh, it's completely possible, and it's quite possible they've already worked up a few new songs at the very least. But, it is a business in the end. In a business sense, they don't need new songs to ramp up interest for these shows. The sheer fact that they're together again is the sole selling point. They might think about waiting until interest starts to wane a little, then use new music to reinvigorate the masses.

Who knows though, I believe literally anything is possible at this point.

Billboard 200 update for this week:

Greatest Hits re-enters at #72
Appetite down to #189

Very nice. I was wonder how last week didn't have the GH in there. Makes much more sense that it is in there now.

It's a awesome Greatest Hits collection. Perfect tracklist.

Billboard 200 update this week:

GH climbs to #55
Appetite climbs to #139

Pretty amazing. I wonder when the the last time the UYI albums were charted?

1993 maybe?

Very Good, Thanks Spirit

 :beer:

Billboard 200 update this week:

AFD climbs to #87 (104 last week)
GH #166

When was the last time AFD was in the Top 100??

2 new songs would be great, especially if we could get them on ITunes! I'd still love an Axl/DC greatest hits..Maybe have a little fun in the studio and make it almost like a concept album with intros like Bruce Ezrin did on KISS Destroyer (Detroit Rick City) Queensryche Operation Mindcrime..Dirty Deeds comes to mind..I love Axl's intro "I've got a little business proposition for you"..

GH is the "biggest gainer" on this week's Billboard 200. It went from #143 last week to #68 this week.

Appetite remains on the board at #179 (#104 last week).

Damn that GH album has sold so many copies!! 

What went from a lawsuit from the band to the label, turned out to be one of the bands highest selling albums!

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

it is called stealing! >:(

Are they selling albums at these shows?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

I'm not saying it would...we all know the album did not sell as well as most of their other albums did.  It's a horse thats been beaten to death. We've argued the why's and what fors and we're NEVER going to get on the same page here.

But I likewise think, given everything involved, comparing it to their other material isn't exactly apt, either.

"I wouldn't be surprised if 'Chinese Democracy' experiences something of a resurgence once it gets more exposure to people that may have missed it or never gave it a chance."

All the time.  Some variation of that is said, all the time.

There are no consequence free statements in life.  People follow up.

See?

I knew there was an explanation.

(unrelated : who the hell doesn't have AFD at this point??)

Not "an explanation".

Something different to consider.

An explanation would be the sum total of why.

But surely you have to acknowledge there is a difference here that you can't NOT consider. Right?

I think the fairest way to put things is that I consider your explanation as vaild as you likely do my rationale that anyone was ever going to dig it already did and it's mark has already been made.

I think that's fair.

Except..you didn't actually disprove the first statement.

A resurgance doesn't mean it's going to enter the top 200.  At most, this is getting exposure to a few hundred thousand people.  Some already own the album.  Some aren't going to be interested at all.

But...say 5k people, of 55k, decide to pick up the album based on the few songs they heard at the show.  That's still a resurgance, of sorts. No?  Because given everything we know, you have to think sales of CD are the equivalent of a zero line on a graph right now.  

I think they are two possible scenarios.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying I think mine is any more likely than yours, either.

But absent hard numbers, you sort of have to acknowledge both exist.

My daugther just bought their whole catalog for her 14th birthday, on itunes.  I offered to rip the CD's for her, but she wanted to "own" them on her account for the future.

There are people out there who have been exposed, but don't own, or replace, their albums. Not everyone does itunes match, or wants to rip cds...and re-buy stuff in digital format.  Or buy it on a different account or platform for transportability.

And people lose track of shit all the time.

So...lots of folks. ;)

Very true.

But GNR has also gotten more exposure in 2016 than in <insert recent past number of years here> combined, correct?

Reviews are everywhere.  All mention the album.  Social media is filled with GNR stuff.  Presumably, it has helped return the band to the public consciousness, certainly more so than any other time recently.  Is it inconceivable this might lead people to checkout the album they missed?

Wasn't that always the theory?

Supplemental question, how many units does it take break into the absolute back end of the top 200?  Seriously, I'm asking.

I don't think the expectation was that it would suddenly get every GnR fan, past and present, who passed buying CD (for whatever their reasons) to suddenly fall in love with it and run out and snap it up (especially considering it's not exactly easy to find...so even if it tickles your brain, you're not getting an "ah ha" 3 days later at Wally world when you're picking up milk).

I think the point was more that MORE people would be exposed, and maybe come to appreciate those songs, when they were actually put in front of them with the guys they "like" on stage together.  That the CD era stuff would become less....IDK...apathetically viewed. I don't think anyone thought CD was suddenly going to be AFD. Or even UYI.  But it would get "more" exposure, and sorta grow on folks from there.

I think that might still happen.  We'll see if CD and Better and TIL stick around if the BAND sticks around for awhile.

TIL, fyi, got a HUGE reaction at MetLife.  People might  not have been singing along, but they appreciated the vocals and solo.


I think it's a moving target.  I think I've seen it as low as 20 or 30k, and as high as 50k-ish, comparing to Soundscan for the Hot 100 (Edited, because I mis-read your first question as the Hot 100, not 200).  But it's been awhile since I actually looked.  Given album sales tanking, those numbers could be lower, now.

Edit: I think when CD reentered the Hot 200 in 2011, it was on sales of about 6k? Something like that? Might have been as low as 3k? To hit 198? So I guess that gives you some idea, above, now, too.

I honestly don't know what "counts" and what doesn't anymore, either, to Billboard.

Young people I guess. Then, on the other hand, young people really don't buy CD's do they?

I was wandering around a mall the other day waiting to pickup an iPhone 6 that my wife had fixed. While I was killing time I walked into NME (because I hadn't been in a CD/DVD specific store in forever). They had a display of horrible quality GnR T-Shirts and other merch, but there was a sign saying that you got a free copy of Chinese Democracy with any Guns N Roses purchase. I LOL'd... they had 1 copy in the CD section available for $3.99

I by has every topic you do not like.  Been talked to death ?

Yet you comment on it? 

The album CD.

Should now be freely available to any market that seas it fit to sell it

Some markets it sold pretty good in how are the ongoing sales?   

I'd like it to be given away via some publications, with a few bonus tracks on, maybe something with Slash and Duff on.

I don't know if this also has an influence on the Billboard charts but Spotify plays have been up over the last 6 months. SCOM has an average of 2 million plays per WEEK, which is a lot for an almost 30 year old song. Also the rest of their plays on Spotify have definitely increased over the last 6 months. Also, Novermber Rain is the most played rock song on YouTube.

So all in all, the cd sales don't really mean that much anymore UNLESS online plays are part of the Billboard lists. But for a rock band inactive for such a long time they are extremely successful on YouTube and Spotify (way more plays than the average rock band) that hasn't had a hit in 20 years.

I'm simply laying out the history of the discussion and providing context to this one.  We've had this same talk, before. Many, many, many times.

It's not that I don't like the topic...it's perfectly fine to discuss.  But the fact is..there are SOOOO many mitigating factors that without hard numbers you come to two cats chasing their own tails.  We'll make the same points, over and over, as we have in the past.  There's not really any new information. And the correlation drawn by DX, while a perfectly fine opinion, wasn't a knock out of the original posters point.

And at the end of all this, we'll end up in the same spot: There's too many plausible "what ifs", that we don't know or control, to ever get a  definitive answer.  Which is fine, so long as everyone on board keeps that in mind.

Define freely available?

If you work at it, and you're actively trying to buy it...yes, you can make that purchase. Itunes and amazon sell it. And no, I'm not saying it takes herculean effort..but you have to go out of your way to sort of actively try to find it (or get lucky and just want to buy it from one of those two outlets).

But in terms of "Went to a show, heard a couple songs, maybe I'll check it out....ohhh, I'm at Walmart, lets see if I can find it, nope not there, ah too much work" impulse buy type stuff? Nope.  And I'd offer that the % of those 50k fans at shows who might be interested..whatever that is...if they were thinking about buying it...it would probably be that sort of scenario.  Because I'd say, if they don't own CD, are exposed to it, and want to buy it...I would say odds are they were in the more casual (normal??) side of fandom.  It's not the hadcore or long time fans that would find themselves in that position. THEY'VE made their choice, one way or the other.

AFD, UYI, and GH are much more accessible that way.  And yes, one of the reasons is that they're strong sellers.  There is definitely a chicken/egg thing at play here.

Itunes is the great equalizer, obviously, since pretty much anyone can grab the album that way, or buy single tracks (which might be more likely if you dig just the songs you heard at the show).

But I no longer know (and don't pay as much attention) to what is, and isn't, tracked by Billboard as album sales any more. I think they added digital stuff back in 2014 (itunes...not sure about spotify, etc).

There are tons of people who dismiss the album because of the lineup, not because they actually dislked it that much. But the thing is that at the end of the day, Slash is still not on CD. Even with the live performances, its still a hard sell for sure. Its not like the casual fan who heard Double Talkin Jive at the show and thought "wow, I guess I'll look for this one" and then easily find it on iTunes or Spotify on the Illusion next to other classics. The person wouldnt have prejudice and think "hey, this is from THAT album, I bet it sucks".

I dont care if CD didnt sell as much as the others. But I still think those live performances are the best way to expose people to those new songs with a little more open heart. Of all the reviews I read about those several gigs that already happened, I guess only one had anything actually bad to say about CD songs (cant even remember which one). And remember that those stadium gigs are filled with casuals who dont even know Coma (or Perfect Crime, if they ever play it again).

Just for fun, here's amazon current Sales ranks (Album, Physical Sales Rank, MP3 Sales Rank, MP3 Category..because AZ doesn't bucket GnR the same way across their albums):

GH,         222,       NO MP3,        NO MP3   
AFD,       371,        83,               Rock
UYI 1,   1737,          7,               Hard Rock
CD,       6448,    1603,            Rock
UYI 2,   9793,    2534,               Rock
Lies,      9938,        33,               Hard Rock
TSI,     16261,   3818,               Rock

If I get ambitious, I'll write a script to fill out a spreadsheet and track them every few days (or every week) to see how it trends.

Is this a weekly sales?

The conclusion here is obvious: Duff alone is pushing TSI sales to be the best selling of them all. :hihi:

I agree, and since the sales of  CD are going to be nominal, that's why I said give it away with bonus tracks added, the publication would pay for this, and recoup the fee via sales from their publication. The bonus material could simply be live versions of songs from CD from the current tour, it fills all boxes; Album gets coverage, the ney sayers get to hear current line-up and confirms some form of validity (that's up to people to sort out, but the fact Slash and Duff are playing can't be denied) of the album....

I'm not sure when they "reset".  I know it can change a couple times a day..I think it's just their overall current rank at the moment you check.

The lower the number, the worse the sales. It's a RANK, not the number of copies.  I should have been clearer.

For Example, GH at 222 means that it is the 222nd highest selling album (of ALL physical album copies being sold) on Amazon.  It is GnR's best selling, currently, album.

Ditto with the MP3 ranks (GH doesn't have an MP3 version on amazon).  The issue there with comparing is that Lies and UYI 1 get bucketed into different categories (Hard Rock) than the other albums (Rock). I have no idea why.

Oh, I think that wasnt your fault, I just didnt read it properly. Sorry.  :-[

Greatest Hits up two spots this week from #68 to #66.

Greatest Hits at #84 this week.

The album has now spent an incredible 7 years combined on the Billboard 200 chart.

Pretty cool. Good music. Speaks to a very broad spectrum of people around the world. I think this forum speaks to how GNR fans can be passionate about the band for very different reasons. Greatest Hits pulls a lot of that energy together.