Here Today... Gone To Hell!

(http://i59.tinypic.com/24cbiw6.png) (https://twitter.com/axlrose/status/593111467991269376)


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Axl Rose's letter to Indonesian President

Mr. President,

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. In 2009 I and Guns N' Roses were both fortunate and privileged enough to perform in your country in Jakarta for the Indonesian people where we enjoyed and were taken aback by the incredible warmth of the Indonesian fans during our performance and in meeting fans and people there wherever we went. It was a very special and exciting experience we are fortunate to have had and to have as fond memories. I would like to express our sincere thanks to your country for showing us such warm and enthusiastic hospitality.

The main concern of this correspondence is in regard to the impending executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran of the group referred to as the Bali Nine and of Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso. In following their stories in regard to particular comments made in their regard by the Attorney General of Indonesia that their efforts and those of their representatives through the courts "are just buying time" I feel with all due respect compelled to ask why a government official derides the efforts of anyone trying to save their own life or the lives of others through proper legal channels? And if or why the government of Indonesia condones such comments by its officials?

As all three are still alive these are clearly not cases where nothing can or should be done by those who care to do their utmost in efforts to spare them. Under the circumstances it would seem that if they are executed regrettably the Indonesian government becomes the more offensive criminal.

I appeal to you Mr. President, Mr. Joko Widodo to use your power in ways to strengthen international relationships between your country and others, to show your country's strength and allow the world to witness an extraordinary act of humanity and bravery on yours and your country's part.

To show each of us that there can be hope and true redemption in times of hopelessness and despair, that rehabilitation and turning one's life around is not just for one's place in what if any afterlife there may be or one believes in but here on this earth where it can do each of us the most good in this life now. Where true justice is better achieved in not killing, not ending the lives of and not destroying others but instead in this case, this situation, right now in this moment in your hands in sparing the lives of these two able bodied young men who've proven in the Indonesian prison system they are more than capable of being productive and positive contributors to society.

Their crimes were now long ago, their hearts and minds forever changed by their crimes, their trials, the hurt they've caused their loved ones, their countrymen, their rehabilitation, remorse, the lasting and deeply embedded fears of the crushing reality of very real and drastic life and death consequences and their deepest desires to become different and better people and if not to be forgiven to be shown mercy and given the opportunity to prove themselves.

In a world where the bad often outweighs the good and evil and negativity would appear more and more prevalent we need and can use every person choosing to make a difference however that choice came about that we can get, that we can save, that we can salvage and we can spare the lives of including those who have seen and learned from the errors of their ways and in doing so we show the entire world that we are capable of forgiveness and mercy, a much greater sense of courage, strength and humanity and being so much more than that which seeks to overcome and destroy us.

To not do so does not send as much a message of deterrence but rather a cold, cruel and uncaring message of hopelessness and blindness by the powers that be. Please do not be this type of man, this type of individual blinded by rigidity and inflexibility and ignoring your true power and wisdom by not acknowledging true change verified, witnessed and confirmed by virtually all who've been involved with either of these men during their incarceration.

It's true I do not know these men nor have I met them but their story has touched me deeply. I as well as many others could easily have found ourselves in their unfortunate and unarguably self-inflicted position. People make mistakes, sometimes big and horribly regrettable mistakes and sometimes more importantly people learn from their mistakes and make new choices, strive and succeed at true positive change. To not acknowledge and give such change the opportunity to prove it's value would seem in this case a greater crime than those originally committed.

This is clearly not a case of hardened, unrepentant, violent or greed driven killers with no regard for the lives of others. They are not con men lying and faking their behavior over all these years only to return to the people they once were and are no longer. That these individuals must die purely as an example to others is in my opinion akin to a kidnapper or terrorist killing hostages to make their point and have their demands met. In carrying out their death sentences the example shown here is one of draconian justice where the punishment in this stage of the condemned's lives by virtue of their rehabilitation and genuine remorse over all these years no longer fits the original crime.

To kill these men under these conditions of their profound and proven change for the better seems a barbaric, backward and truly disgraceful act of pride, ego, fear and prejudice, prejudice against your own system and the souls of anyone who has committed what's been deemed a crime from one day making amends and having the opportunity to make things right by how they live their lives and not how they are brutally and with disregard executed.

In the case and impeding execution of Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso executing those on the bottom rungs of the ladder in the chain of drug trafficking or those caught in the web of human trafficking who may not have had the luxury of qualified representation or even proper translators during their trial seems more than unfair and proves what? That a government chooses to condemn those that it would appear few if anyone truly cares about or has ever cared about to begin with? A mother who's quite possibly sincere hopes of making a better life for her and her children have been destroyed in a tragic circumstance and with her execution only makes things worse for her family and the sorrow of those who do care that much greater.

I realize I am no one and no one to get involved with your affairs or those of your government and how this letter reads or anyone other than yourself thinks of it is irrelevant. Only the lives of these three human beings are what's important now. That said I did not speak in jest or empty flattery when I spoke of how I and my organization were affected by the depth of warmth shown us by the Indonesian people during our performance and stay in Jakarta.

I ask you now to show such great depth of humanity and compassion now to these individuals and to deny your bloodlust in your war on drugs and grant clemency to these three individuals and give them a permanent stay of execution and to change the course of your own life and place in both your country's and world history. No other can do what you alone have the power to do and that is the power to show benevolence and mercy where mercy can be truly appreciated and given it's proper respect not only by the condemned but by the entire world and it's many leaders.

Give them a chance to prove you right by living where their deaths at this stage can only prove tragic and by all involved avoidable and unnecessary. You've made your point and struck fear in both the hearts and minds of the condemned and anyone even remotely considering bad choices or already involved in those worlds. Their crimes were not committed on your watch. Life is the only thing important now, not death but life.

Sincerely,

W. Axl Rose

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10153791661983222

Wow...

Don't know what to say that one.

Intense.

Their lawyer made a plea to Metallica for help, it turns out he should have made it to Axl....


Chan, Sukumaran lawyers in plea to judges - and Metallica

Jakarta: Lawyers fighting to challenge the Indonesian president's rejection of mercy pleas for Bali nine organisers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have argued the case can be heard by the administrative court and have made an unusual appeal for help from the heavy metal band Metallica.

Mr Mulya tweeted a link to a YouTube video pleading for mercy for the pair to the heavy metal band Metallica, of which Mr Joko is a fan.

"Hello @Metallica? You have to campaign to save life in Indonesia from Death Penalty. Come, sing and make plea to [the president]," he tweeted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaBFj8gRBug

https://twitter.com/TodungLubis/status/581846748936683520

http://www.smh.com.au/world/chan-sukumaran-lawyers-in-plea-to-judges--and-metallica-20150330-1mb6mp.html

I didnt know they played a show in indonesia in 2009 :P

Great letter. Hes 100% right on this.
There it is, stay of execution.

I had not been following this story... but weren't they already executed?

I haven't followed either, but I read today that some one was executed in Indonesia just now.

Yep.  8 of them.

Yeah, seems like a cause Axl's passionate about.

Stay of Execution, maybe a concept album.

Sure is.

Actually reads pretty clearly too.

Just read that Mary Jane Veloso was granted the stay of execution. The authorities wants to wait and make sure she's not a victim of human trafficking.

AXL ROSE Makes Last-Minute Appeal To Indonesia's Heavy Metal-Loving President To Stop Executions

GUNS N' ROSES singer Axl Rose made a last-minute appeal to Indonesian president Joko Widodo to spare the lives of the two Australians who were sentenced to death in 2006 for trying to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the ringleaders of the so-called Bali Nine group, were arrested at Denpasar airport in April 2005 and were refused clemency by Widodo as part of a hardline stance on the death penalty for convicted drug criminals.

According to ABC, Chan and Sukumaran were executed this morning by firing squad on the Indonesian prison island of Nusakambangan.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-makes-last-minute-appeal-to-indonesias-heavy-metal-loving-president-to-stop-executions/

Bali Nine: Indonesia executes eight prisoners but reprieves Mary Jane Veloso ? latest updates: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/apr/28/bali-nine-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran-executed-indonesia-mercy




/jarmo

Has Axl given his opinions about the issue of capital punishment before?

If so, is he against it 100% or did he engage in these cases because the punishment is far from fitting the crime?

How about: Great to hear from Axl!

Or: Nice of him to do that.

Just some suggestions. :)




/jarmo

Axl's letter was written yesterday. Could it have had an influence on sparing the life of Mary Jane you think? She was one of those specifically mentioned in the letter.

Impossible to say.

But, he does lay out a pretty compelling case why she deserves a second look.

Yeah, I think so too. The letter as a whole seems well thought out and makes a lot of sense.

It really does.

Its extremely well written and extremely well put together.  Well reasoned, logical instead of overly emotional.

proud of you Axl.

and goodluck to Mary Jane.

Good to see it making the rounds: www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-axl-roses-letter-to-indonesian-president-regarding-bali-nine-20150428 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-axl-roses-letter-to-indonesian-president-regarding-bali-nine-20150428)



/jarmo

Overly protective today ?

I just thought it was an intense emotional letter...

I love Axl the singer ... As far as his personal beliefs or what he thinks about x y and z.. Not that important to me, and I doubt very important to the decision makers regarding this situation. It would be great to hear from him if it was regarding GNR . That's just me.

Overly protective because I suggested you could say something positive about Axl taking time out to write a letter on a serious issue?

Wow.

Yeah, I get that it's got very little to do with GN'R and your wish for updates. But sometimes it's nice to take a moment and think of others instead of what you need/want though.



/jarmo

But I didn't say anything negative ! I just commented how intense the letter was which was just my initial reaction ...im sorry that wasn't positive enough! Grrrr we need new songs.

I'd actually offer up that what we need is a htgth bonding day. Lots of beer/booze, shit shooting, and shaking hands.

Think we can get axl to get the boys on the phone, and play a gig, just for us (we'll buy tickets!), near a major metro airport.

Nyc is nice this time of year.

(I am totally kidding on the gig...unless...you know....)

Hahaha

Now here's a guy thinking outside the box.  I like it.

I wasn't aware that the president is a known GNR fan ...

That's an interesting wrinkle.

I'm always down for some good bonding over a NEER ha

Again I just thought the letter was emotional and intense, that was my initial reaction so I posted exactly that  ... You want to celebrate him writing it ... Go ahead ..

It certainly was not negative, what you wrote.

Its the clearest written thing I have ever seen from the guy.  Not even close.

Fuck you, man.  :P

I'm on my ipad. The typos take over. I end up editing almost as much as typing the post....

When next there is a htgth meetup, i am coming with a drink recipe  for a "neer" that will fuck you up. And you are drinking (more than) one! Just pray i dont put nyquil in that motherfucker.

The president of Indonesia, Joko Widodo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0dzihlCMAEq5wI.jpg)

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-ff-indonesia-president-20150411-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-ff-indonesia-president-20150411-story.html)

Yes it is. Serious issue.

Celebrate? No. You're just using silly words to try to ridicule what I said.





Isn't that something we used to call a pre-show?




/jarmo

Yup. Pre show hammerstien, preshow roseland....

So we needa find a show to pre...right?  :P  :smoking:

Things like that are so much easier in Las Vegas!
The bar and the venue are in the same place. And so is your hotel!  :hihi:


/jarmo

I wanted to go last year...has it all lined up. 2 shows, one on my birthday (june 7th).

Then....work fucked it all up. :(

Soooo.....now i need a redo.

This issue has touched a lot of our aussie and the worlds hearts.

A tragic and draconian display of justice. An inability to recognise change and remorse at it's deepest sincerity, is in its own way a devasting reality of a cruel , out of touch and injust legal system.To torture with the unknown for over a decade shows such a lack of integrity and respect to humanity. A prolonged and ghastly treatment of the families and abating a false sense of hope, is as undignified and calamitous as the crime committed over a decade ago.

Axl's letter was well written and very heartfelt.

Forgiving mistakes...being more criminal for not forgiving...long ago acts that should not result in a death sentence? Was Axl writing to the Indonesian President or trying to convince himself of something? Stay of Execution? Short one guitar player... :confused:

Wow! Very well written letter!

I respect Axl for speaking his mind, but I live in Australia and I'm just sick of hearing about these guys and this crap about being rehabilitated.

First, is very easy to regret your actions when you have a rope around your neck, and second, is funny that nobody seems to care about the thousands of lives that are destroyed every year in Indonesia and Australia because of the shit that these leeches bring into the country.  :rant: Oh yeah, and do you know who tipped off the gang to Indonesian authorities? The Australian Federal Police...

By the way, why did Axl just plead for the lives of three people? What about the other six people? ???

@axlrose
1. It's deeply troubling President Widodo ignoring International outcry went thru w/8 of the executions.

@axlrose
2. Let's pray Miss Veloso's reprieve is permanent.

@axlrose
3. Widodo's refusal 2 postpone the executions until all legal challenges n' investigations of corruption r resolved is inexcusable.

@axlrose
4. 4 Widodo 2 b out of the country during his big statement refusing 2 take calls or read any last minute pleas 4 the condemned is cowardice

@axlrose
5. The People of Indonesia deserve better.

Great post, summation and insights.

There is no discernable evidence that executing drug traffickers results in any lessening of the frequency this happens, the people involved are replaced quickly by others.

These people were fully reformed as well and were contributing to the lives of others, a real injustice done here.

Maybe he studied all the cases and these three were the ones where he believed the penalty was not justified.



Also on Billboard:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6546294/axl-rose-letter-pardon-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran-indonesia



/jarmo

All that letter needed was a couple of guitar solos and I could picture it being another epic gnr song

Another news outlet reporting on the letter: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a644748/axl-rose-writes-emotive-appeal-to-indonesian-president-over-death-row-executions.html

 : ok:


/jarmo

aint this a weird coincident? after the "stay of execution" registration discussed earlier?

The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/axl-rose-critical-of-indonesia-after-public-appeal-fails-to-stop-executions



/jarmo

Very well written letter and admirable that he is using his high profile to bring attention to this.  Reasonable people may disagree on the morality of the death penalty, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that drug trafficking is punishable by death (other than competing drug traffickers).  He may not have saved these guys' lives but, given how popular he is in Indonesia, he may have affected attitudes in Indonesia about crime/punishment, which may in future generations lead to the end of executions under these circumstances.

Yeah.

And it's not always about whether or not you succeed. Sure, it's important. But it's as important to show that you care.

That alone can help a lot.



/jarmo

I also don't believe drug smugglers should be put to death... but by all accounts these were really bad dudes... who would go to any lengths to further their business interests.

Just .. there are two sides to every coin... I'm sure there are families who were directly affected by these people that didn't lose a wink of sleep over this.

Hopefully this shines light on the fact that the criminal justice system in this country and others are severely behind the times. So no matter how you feel about this particular case, we can all agree that the system they have in place is all kinds of fucked up.

I think  he should have just said:

NO DRUGS = NO APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION

 : ok:

It makes me wonder ... Perhaps Axl's thoughts are focused more on important issues like this than on what the next Guns album will be.
It's admirable that he would use his celebrity to try and bring some mercy and kindness into the world when so many others use their's to whore themselves out just to get increased recognition and status.

it was very interesting to read Axl`s letter. Im not a fan of death penalty at all... it only shows weakness

Even NME has managed to report on it without their usual bs: http://www.nme.com/news/guns-n-roses/85039




/jarmo

Jarmo do you know if he reads his tweets or does he get too many to read? I've sent a few regarding this issue & thanking him for trying, he obviously doesn't 'like' or comment back but wondered if he does actually read constructive ones that don't just say 'come to.....' or 'i love you'....

I don't know. Like you said, it might be too time consuming to go through all the tweets and messages.


/jarmo

This got a lot of coverage, great side effect of a heartfelt letter written for the right reasons. :)

Here's another one
http://m.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity/it-couldve-been-me-axl-roses-heartfelt-plea-to-joko-widodo-to-spare-lives-of-bali-9-duo-20150430-1mwigv.html

That was a well written and very powerful letter.  I am very touched by Axl's efforts regarding this and the heartfealt compassion he displayed says so much.  Axl you are indeed a very talented, strong and witty individual and I am so very proud to deem you my
Favorite "Rockstar".

???