Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.wmmr.com/shows/matt-cord/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10669552

Well...that's not encouraging.

Damn it! I'm stuck on my work laptop, and it won't play the interview.

GRRRRRRRR.......

I'm pretty sure as soon as there's something to be in the loop about, Tommy will be.
Again, making a mountain out of a molehill...

Wonder what the reaction would have been if he had answered like Dj or Richard. :D



/jarmo

In a way, he did.  We already have the two of them at odds with what they say, and now we have a third guy saying he doesn't know shit about shit.

All of this adds up to a pretty dysfunctional operation with a communication process that needs some work, to put it mildly.

What do you suggest they communicate to the band at this moment when nothing's going on?

The other two aren't at odds with what they say. Haha.


Besides, what's your point? Haven't you already pointed out that it doesn't matter what the others say?



/jarmo

Really a new thread for this , when it was pretty much discussed,lol

Oh, is the Tommy thing going in some other thread?  I didn't see it.

Merge this, if that's the case though.  But I did look before I posted.

Tommy says it's a cyclical thing with Guns, pretty much like he expects to hear from them when there's something happening.

I see both sides here... GNR is on hiatus... or so I have heard... So that is a great explanation for not anybody knowing anything!

but if GNR is looking at putting together the next record, as per Axl's words... shouldnt the guys in the band be a part of that process, or at least be clued in to where we are in that process?

I don't think the bass player in ANY BAND saying he is out of the loop is a good thing... nobody can convince me otherwise.

Btw, I think it's ok to have this in a separate thread. It's a separate interview, so..

Yeah... good point... BUT .. Especially with The Replacements starting to look like a full time thing... if GNR plans something on short notice (like they are known to do). It could lead to more conflicting dates for Tommy.

You'd think, yes. 



Not even a little bit.

These are actually the answers I find most depressing.  When they are asked something about GNR and laugh at the question.  Laugh because they have no clue, but also laugh because they can't believe the interviewer is asking them.  Think about that.  A question about the band you are in draws laughter because you think its comical that people think you have any idea what's going on.

This is our "band" too much of the time, in my opinion.

Once again, it depends on whether or not they need to be involved. Do you need Tommy there if his parts are done? No.


Tommy's actual quote: "And Guns, I'm not sure what's going on there. I'm kinda out of the loop a little bit. But, you know, that kinda goes into, that's the cyclical event there. "



Also, he says he knows nothing about the Replacements new album. Does that mean there's communication issues?  :hihi:




/jarmo

I guess that's a problem the management has to deal with. We had that case last year when Duff filled in for Tommy.

But yes, there could potentially be conflicting dates. I'm not 100% on this, but I believe GNR isn't as "short notice" as they were a few years ago.

I doubt any of us care about that.

But there would be "big picture" things you would be aware of.

Such as a new album coming out or a tour planned.  Even if you didn't have exact dates, you think you would be told something for you own scheduling.

Yes!! Especially in the Replacements where he is much closer to the top of the food chain... ha

And even if Tommy has not a note left to record... again.. shouldn't the bass player in the band at least have a clue? I would think..

Only if his input mattered. 

Anyone saying that this can be done without him (or any of the others) is telling you their input doesn't really matter to Axl.  Which, while probably essentially true, is still sort of a bummer.  Its a bummer just to hear, but a double bummer to hear some people try and spin it as positive.

Sure.

I don't know how the management operates these days and it might be that they can improve on giving the band members more tentative info to plan on.


Btw, it seems like management is flexible in regards to conflicting dates. They were lucky that Duff could fill in last year, but before that they postponed a tour because it was in conflict with some of Richard's dates.

The Replacements reformed because Paul Westerberg decided it was time and Tommy's been trying to get him to do it for a long time. It could also come to an end at any time. It's only an issue if Tommy gets the call from GnR management to get together and he's in the middle of working on Replacements material.

He still has his own band if GnR's in limbo and Paul doesn't want to bother with new music, but Tommy's also worked on Paul's solo projects over the years, same as Duff has with Izzy.

Bands have put albums out and didn't do a tour to support the album.

Hey Guys, New Disc Of GNR Is Finish, Simply.

 : ok:

That seems to depend who, when, or where you ask.

Hopeless analogy since the point is, whether there ever will be a Replacements album to begin with (not whether an album is, at this point, in the creation process). We have already been led to believe there will be another Guns N' Roses album - and indeed, have been told that the majority of it is already recorded.

That probably has a lot to do with how capable Duff is to just step right in at a moment's notice.. meaning he obviously knows most of the set list....(plus the draw of him playing ..I'm sure doesn't hurt)

A capable replacement for Richard might not be as easy to find.

Yes, that's what I said.

If Duff hadn't been available, they would probably have postponed dates. I'm not saying this is optimal, but it shows that management isn't out to create problems for the band members, rather some for themselves.

I agree. I NEVER have accused them of being purposefully problematic for people... Just the nature of how Axl works...

I have this image of him walking in tot he kitchen one morning and going... Beta!!!!!! Brazil!!! 7 shows... two weeks! Make it happen!

I am getting kind of tired of the mixed messages.  DJ talks about the tracks he's written, and how GNR plans to "sift" through the finished material.  Richard says work on it starts and stops.  Axl said it's done, and was supposed to be the main focus after Vegas....Here we are nearly a year later with still no official word on it. I mean c'mon. It's either coming or it isn't.

Does Axl even want to release a record this year?  We have no idea.  Just because he stated in the Revolver article that he was going to start looking into things, doesn't mean if had any intention of releasing new music anytime soon.  Maybe he wants to take this whole year off.  Problem is we get our hopes up for no reason.  Assume nothing until you're otherwise given specific, time-bound information.  Until then, assume Tommy, DJ, Richard, etc. do not need to be in the loop.  By the way, my sentiments in no way are a reflection of how I'd like to see this band work, but are simply just pointing out the obvious reality.

Seems to me it depends on where you stand on things, overall.

If you are fed up with the delays, you are going to take the comments as a sign its all done and they can finally get the damn show on the road.

If you are a militant Axl defender, and think the road to hell is paved with fan's questions, you are going to take the same comment but look for as much wiggle room as you can to buy Axl time.

All of those mixed messages can be explained. An investigative analyse of time frames can reconcile two statements, seemingly completely at odds with each other. A questioning of the formality of the interview can significantly alter the context so the contradiction can be ignored, at our whim basically. If these tactics are insufficient, you have to simply shout the questioners down or perplex him or her with mind-boggling academic arguments involving little straw people: eventually the very simple and stark contradiction will be diluted in an overall fudge of messiness. In time, every mixed message in the land of new gnr makes complete sense.

Apart from those penned by Ron. He is, beyond salvation.

Why do you need to buy time?
It'll be out when Axl thinks it should come out. Nothing's changed.

When you accept that reality, you don't need to "buy time". The ones "waiting" are the ones who spend their time counting the days and being upset.




/jarmo

I don't.  I'm not one of the people in that group.  Which is hardly a state secret.

Several people tell me its done, I believe them.  I don't then start asking what "done" means.  Do they mean "done-done" or just "done".  That sort of thing.

Not my deal.  That's the deal of people looking to buy Axl time, and I am not among their number.

I don't believe for one minute that it's Axl holding back from releasing stuff. Look at his comments back at London arena in 2002. We should have 3 albums by now.

My guess is the record company are the ones holding things up. Did Axl not say once Chinese was the collection of songs they were "allowed" to release. If universal think the material will bomb then they won't want to release it. Releases like appetite for democracy are a safer bet as still clings to the past success.

This is the reality of big business.

If Chinese was considered a big acclaimed hit I don't doubt the remix album would be out now but imagine marketing that today.

I can just see the sneers in kerrang..."An album that got a luke warm reception on it's initial release has now been rereleased as an obscure remix affair...blood in the water sounds like something you'd hear in a disco. Slash made the right choice etc etc"

I think we have to hope this is not the case, otherwise, we are fucked.  If they thought the 14 songs we did get were the most commercially viable, we've got troubles.

And this is a point I have been trying to make since this talk started.  There is little market for a remix album of an album that did not make impact to begin with.

Someone in one of these threads posted sales figures for NIN remix albums.  They sucked too.  And 'The Downward Spiral' fared a hell of a lot better than 'Chinese Democracy'.

I don't think anybody thinks remix albums are supposed to be chart toppers or big sellers.

Everyone knows they're only for a select group of fans, or possibly new fans who don't like the original versions.
For example, if you make a slow remix of a fast song. Then you might get others into that track....



/jarmo

Blood On The Dance Floor is the best selling remix album of all time, shipping six million (HIStory shipped 25 million!).

The remix albums from NIN are great too (especially Year Zero Remixed).

Yeah, we got somewhat mixed messages on that as well.  Axl would talk about how the tracklist was intentionally selected for the album.  And then he would say that this was the album that got past the "red tape".  My GUESS is that he was referring to the Sean Beaven and Roy Thomas Baker versions of the album, both were sent to the label and both versions were told that they needed more work.  In that context, Axl's "red tape" comments make sense and aren't as damning in regard to the next album.

Had the tracks on Chinese Democracy been handpicked by the label out of the dozens recorded, I would agree that getting the next one out would likely be a difficult task, if drawn from the leftovers.  However, I have to believe that certain tracks were meant for the followup album(s).  For example, when Axl told Baz that The General would likely be on the 3rd album back in 2006...

The band is on hiatus, and Richard, Dizzy, DJ, and Tommy have all been busy with other projects.  I don't really attach much meaning to that.  We know from Richard that Axl was recording vocals back in November, and we know from Twitter that Chris Pitman was with him in the studio.  I don't know why Tommy would have to be involved in those activities, or even really know the day to day on that.  Who knows what, if anything, has happened in 2015.  There just may not be much to be in the loop on over these last couple of months.

Ali

In regard to the next album, I do not take the fact that these guys are "out of the loop" as a bad sign.  Like...At all.  The recording for the next record is done.  Has been from a good while, save for possible more recent additions from DJ & Ron.  We know Axl operates the business side of Guns more or less without their knowledge and that they're called in as needed.  That's the way it's been for years. We really should be used to that by now.

As for touring, who the hell cares about that until the album is done and hopefully out??  They toured on and off for 5 years in support of Chinese.  Let's just worry about the next album for now.  :yes:

Edit: It's not like in 2008, the rest of the band were brimming with information regarding Chinese Democracy's impending release.  Bumble even told us when he got news, he found out the same way we did.  Why would things be any different now?

In my opinion, there's only a few people that are truly "in the know" and that's Axl, Beta & Fernando....And possibly Caram Costanzo and Jimmy Iovine, if they're currently negotiating and planning, which we hope to God they are.

I personally love that people still seemed outraged that this band doesnt operate like a normal band. For all intents and purposes this is Axls band. They are employees and pretty much get notified when they are needed.

Everybody knows and understands it... but there are people that get offended by that notion or the belief that it's not a "band" which sets off a never ending back n forth.

You come to terms with it.. and neither
 side gets me too riled up anymore.

It's a band... just not in the romantic sense that people have in their mind of what a band should be.

For somebody who follows GNR comings and goings as often as I do... I admit I don't know much about Caram... where can I read up on him? Does he work with a lot of heavy hitters or mostly just with Axl?

He produced the final versions of the Chinese Democracy tracks with Axl, and even had a couple of writing credits on the album.  I know he produced a couple Pearl Jam albums, but beyond that I'm not sure what else he's done.  Word is he's producing the follow up album as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

Yet try making the argument this is not a real band.

But then...duck.

At this point, my only concern is Axl and co. doing what has to be done behind the scenes to make the next album a reality.  Band politics, touring members on the next leg, inter-band communication...I could honestly give a fuck about after all this time.  I just want Axl to make good on his promise to make the next album the band's next move.  All else can take a welcome back seat.

Ok...here we go....I'm in a band....current day GNR does not operate like a band. It operates like a corporation which notifies it's employees when they are needed to produce for the entity. If you want to say that Ashba, Stinson, Reed, Fortus, Ferrer, Pittman and BBF? are a band then fine, but Axl is a seperate entity on to himself. I equate this to lets say: Slash featuring Miles Kennedy and The Conspirators.

I'm right with you.  But that argument is a non-starter around here.

Of course its a band, everything is fine, why are you here?

I don't get how anyone thinks that "band members" being out of the loop is a normal thing. Normally "bands" hire management to take care of the business side of the music industry for them. Management shouldn't be the ones notifying you of when things are going on. Unless band members are employees of an entity and not the ones employing said management.

To me, this is more of a punch the clock job than a band.  And has been for years.

In my experience, this is not a popular take 'round these parts.  This is a conversation rife with danger.

At the end of the day, if say, Axl gives Tommy, DJ & Richard a full rundown of the current status of the next album....Does it change anything?  Meaning, does it get us any closer to the next album?  I think no.  So why debate the merits of keeping everyone in the band in the loop?  Changes nothing.

Because optics matter in life.

Having 2 guitarists say different things within a day of each other, another who may be in/may be out, but says he can't comment, and then your bassist laughing off a question and saying he's not in the loop...these ain't good developments.

This band is pretty much a god damn joke to everyone except us.  Is there some real drawback to having someone other than lifelong never going to leave you fans seeing you as legit?

I guess I'm just numb to it now.  It's been essentially the Axl Rose show since they returned in 2001.  He calls the shots, end of story.  Me?  I just want the followup to Chinese Democracy we've been promised 9 million times, and if we're lucky, a U.S. arena tour soon after.  Getting into a semantics laced conversation about how informed Axl keeps Bumblefoot is the last thing I care about.  But again, that's just my feelings on the matter.

To me it is what it is. I'm a fan of Axl's. Always have been. But it bugs me when I hear people say that this is a normal business model for a band. Its pretty insulting.

Yeah, but where outside this particular board do you hear that though?  Forget people out in the world, you don't even hear that at other GNR forums.

One of the concessions you make posting here is having to hear some alternate universe reasoning from time to time.  You get used to it.

No, you are ultimately right.  And I'm with you on that.

Its only a topic of conversation here, where people are committed to the other side.  Most times, most places, this never gets past a "yeah, shit's fucked up, man" and you both sort of chuckle and move on.

Its only here we dissect.  Due to the need to some to have it all make sense and all appear on the up and up.  "Shit's fucked up, man" won't play here. 

Why?  Why do you say that?  What's wrong with you?  Its funny how you call yourself a fan?  Why are you here?  Why were you born?  Why did your parents even date?

I'd say shits fucked upped, but I also say so be it, when there is something really of concrete status to things, this is just passing the time, though I've been more spectator cause its fun to read, and I'm not around enough to be completely active in conversations, but I have no problem saying  shit is fucked up and move on, cause in my heart of hearts , I have a strong feeling I'll be going to more shows , and hearing music at a point in time again, till then, its all good. :D

But on the other hand, you gotta see it for what it is, Tommy saying hes outta the loop is no fuckin big revelation or huge deal when there is nothing actively going on that needs his attention and I also suspect as I said when this first came up , Tommy is not a talker, he very well I suspect knows the shit surrounding Ron, I'm sure he gets an update here and there from Axl but the interview he did was not aimed at Guns, it was a quick thing promoting a show in Philly, with a few toss in questions . Now if you get a chance to hear the new Ron interview , that is an entirely different thing ,the questions were asked and the dance around answers were given cause Ron even admittedly says in the interview I don't know when to shut up! But he has strong feelings he wants to convey. Tommy keeps shit close to the vest.

Well, I think you know I'm far from the type to label Axl an infallible deity who is literally incapable of making a questionable decision in regard to GNR.  That's a special type of fan that frankly scares the shit out of me, the way that Mormons who prattle on about how great their beliefs are do.  My only point here is that you can't fight city hall, and ultimately we should really mainly be concerned with hearing the next album that we're allegedly on the verge of getting since Vegas ended.

With all due respect, why did you start this thread then?

To get people's take on it.  Not everyone here are the folks I'm talking about.

"Shit's fucked up, man" seems to be your stance on it. People trying to make sense of it are living in an alternate universe as you said. Seems to me like this was a ruse to provoke conflict and mockery of the "militant Axl defenders".

What other take than "trying to make sense of it" is it?  - "Shit's fucked up, man"

Just the opposite.  I'm trying to avoid it.

That whole passage was an offshoot of the conversation about the interview.  By that point in the thread, it was about how its kind of goofy the way this band operates as opposed to the norm.  And not a point I introduced.  I was trying to tell our man, who is a somewhat new poster, that's a dead end here.

Am I wrong on that?

The way I see it, the original phrase "I am out of the loop" is about the way this band operates. I don't see the distinction here.

Well, I can only tell you where I was coming from as the conversation progressed.  But I can't make you believe me

I think if you look at all my comments in the order they were made, I am clearly trying to steer the conversation away from a topic I know is toxic and a guaranteed thread deralier.

So, you do accept the reasoning people gave for why Tommy said what he said, as valid arguments, even though you disagree with them?

If some of you are so into the Dead Horse topics, that's where you will find your discussions.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Now, go on. Do tell us all how it's not a real band, how things suck, how the album wasn't promoted enough, how it was such a big failure, how the setlist sucks, how they all contradict each other in interviews and whatever else your minds come up with when you've got too much free time to focus on this boring negative bullshit.  : ok:



/jarmo

Awww, poor you.

Yeah, I suppose so.

I'm not the one crying about my posts not getting enough attention in this section.


That posts is why you got warnings. You just can't stop your act.



/jarmo

I expected this thread to be deleted outright before it hit a second page.

A move here is a net win, as far as I'm concerned.

I am glad everyone calf out this self serving bum out here

He is the type that gets off on just seeing his name as the last post on each thread

His name?

He hides behind the worst wrestling name ever.    Worst. 

And admits he wears a hat every day...

It's not all about u pal.   

Ah, I remember my first beer.

Are you kidding me?  Bastion Booger, Red Rooster, Mr. Ass, T.L. Hopper, and the Booty Man (Brutus Beefcake's WCW name) were far worse than Degeneration X.

I think you need to lay off the Bacon... Man.

Yeah, totally offbase with that one.  Come on now.

Lol and I thought last night was actually friday.  So I kinda just made up my own long weekend.   Aww life is good

So now it's Friday night p2 for me.  And Ya the beers are tasting good.   But then vodka will taste that much better in a hour when it's vodka time

If you smellllllllllllllll.     What TheBaconman..........     

Is cooking.