Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What do you guys think?
He and Axl have a history that goes back decades. He was the only member of the old band to truly sympathize with Axl to some degree in that he understood Axl's emotions because he himself had panic attacks. He was the last guy to leave, leaving almost a year after Slash had; he stuck with Axl until the bitter end of the original lineup, and then came back and Axl seemed to be in good spirits when Duff was around. Do you think perhaps Axl realized this and might have Duff back full time? I'm not saying a reunion with Slash. That's out of the question. But having Duff back in the band perhaps on a full time basis come next tour?

Hard to say. Depends a bit on Tommy as well, on how busy he's gonna be with The Replacements in the future.

If anyone from the old band were ever to return, Duff would be the most likely.

No. He just joined the band as a touring member last year. 

I think that this question wouldn't be in the room when another bass player would have joined GN'R on tour.

Wouldn't say that actually. That's exactly what happened with Frank.

But Frank was not in the old band. Different situation.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but I took it you meant that we wouldn't ask this question if it was another bass player (not Duff) who filled in for Tommy on tour.

You understood  me. But Axl said that he doesn't want to work with his old band mates on a permanent basis. Maybe something with Duff and Izzy. And he them both on tour right?

Then... the question would be in the room if there was another bass player..

The Frank/Brain situation is similar to that.

I can understand that some fans wanna have him back in the band. But the reality is different.

I think we're talking past each other here..  :hihi:

As I have said: Frank was not in the old band.


Axl said in 2009 that he wanna do something with Izzy or Duff. He had them both on tour and Izzy is the co-songwriter of a new song. But they never did something on a "permanent basis" during the last couple of years.

Different situations.

Yes, I know all that.

But you said that if it was another bass player (not Duff) filling in for Tommy last year, we wouldn't raise questions about that person joining the band.

I said that that was pretty much what happened when Frank joined the band. He started out filling in for Brain, and gradually becoming a full-time member.

Therefore, I disagree that we wouldn't raise the same question if it were a bass player other than Duff filling in. Because, that scenario played out before with the drummer.

I have said that because Duff is a ex-member. This question is always in the room when a ex-member joines for a couple of live shows.

Yes, and I think the question would also have come up if it was a brand new bass player filling in on tour. Because, that's what happened with Frank.

Nope. Frank was not in the old band.

A brand new bass player fills in for Tommy on tour = Frank filling in for Brain on tour

But Duff filled in for Tommy right?

Last year he said it would depend on what Tommy was doing re The Replacements, A lot has changed since 2009. Seeing Duff do full show with GN'R at Vegas was amazing. His stage presence dwarfs Tommy's. Would love to see him back

Yes, but you said in the first post that we wouldn't raise questions if it was another bass player.

We are talking about a hypothetical situation here. I've never said that Duff filling in for Tommy is the same as Frank filling in for Brain.

If Duff returns to GNR then that will be the bridge for Slash to return.

No.

Duff has gone on with his life, personally and professionally.  Not only does he have his own band and musical projects, he has a wife and two daughters who are obviously the center of his world.

Like it or not, I strongly doubt Duff would want to deal with Axl's still-erratic schedule (where Axl would be the one still controlling everything) on a more permanent basis.  It would disrupt everything in Duff's now stable life.


I seriously doubt it, especially since Duff said that he never even brought Slash up during the recent years he spent with Axl.  The Axl/Slash rift can only be healed by Axl and Slash.  I seriously doubt Duff would be bothered to get in the middle of that, and I don't blame him.

Axl has GN'R, Duff has Loaded, Slash has his solo albums. I don't think that this situation should be changed because it works.

Do you like Tommy Stinson by any chance?? ;D

Why would Duff ever want to come back to the band as an employee

When he was in the band as a controlling partner !

I can see duff just doing a couple of shows here and there

I can also never see Axl signing over rights that would make Duff a partner again.    Why would he?

Duff, Slash and Axl are still partners when it comes to the back catalog, it might make things a little easier in trying to get songs cleared. They're always going to have to deal with each other, even if it's indirectly.
 
If Slash and Axl can even get to the "speaking to each other" level, that's as good as it will get in my opinion.

It would be a good thing, but probably it won't happen. I Don't think Duff will come back without slash on a permanent basis, this is just impossible. Duff could rejoin the band even for a middle long term, but at the end he would leave.

Being stockholders in GNR, and dealing with each other indirectly, means exactly that.  What it doesn't mean is that Duff is forced to center his entire life around the erratic uncertainly of Axl's plans and behavior.  There is nothing worse than having your life controlled by an external source (that's one reason why Duff left GNR in the first place), especially when you're in Duff's position where you have a family and plenty of satisfying musical projects to occupy your time.


Maybe so, but that's really an irrelevant, unforeseeable future.


Exactly.  It's like divorcing your wife, then moving back in with her, and sleeping in the other room while she fucks her new husband.  It's pointless!

I think Duff would definitely come back if asked.  That's just me.

I agree with all of this. He has two functioning bands, a business, a literary side career, fitness pursuits and a happy family life. He is a renaissance man. Once he sobered up, Duff has become the most grounded and stable of all of the old band members. Why would he throw the Axl circus into the middle of all of that?

As a touring member? Probably the same reason he joined Guns for a good long run last year, because he admittedly missed the songs and had a blast playing them live again.  I certainly wouldn't put a Duff return outside the real of possibilities.

I don't.  Why put up with Axl's bullshit at this stage of your life?

I'm sure the few shows he did were a nice trip down memory lane.  But, I suspect in an honest moment, he would tell you he also saw reminders why he cashed out when he did.

On anything like a permanent thing though? I couldn't see it myself.

All of that was convenient, temporary, and didn't disrupt Duff's life.  It isn't the same as being a contracted member of the band where it completely governs his life.  If Duff rejoined GNR on a permanent basis (or even a long-term touring member), the commitment would be 24/7.  He wouldn't be able to plan anything long-term with his family, his music, or anything else, because he would know that the phone would ring any minute and require him to drop everything and show up for rehearsals, recording, or touring, all at erratic, unplanned intervals which would disrupt anything and everything in Duff's now well-established stable life -- a life he obviously cherishes.

I don?t want a reunion, as that ship has long since sailed, but I?d prefer to see that over any single member of the classic lineup jump back on board full time.
Don?t get half pregnant.

I don?t see why any of them would rejoin unless they truly thought they had unfinished business.

From the outside looking in, I can?t fathom any of the alumni looking at the current state of affairs and second guessing their decisions to leave.

I?d love to see Izzy and Axl working together again, but outside of the GN?R banner.

Not one of them.  From Slash right through to Ron.

Where would the regrets be? 

Leaving GNR wasn't exactly dumping Pfizer stock right before they introduced Viagra.  Axl has done nothing of note that was going to fill these guys with any sort of regret.

I dunno.  If the contract covered one tour leg at a time with no commitments beyond that, I could see a Duff return.  You guys act like he would be selling his soul, whereas I think (barring any prior commitments) he'd be totally into it and done of his own free will.  I think Ron's screaming and crying over the past couple years have given us a jaded understanding of what life on the road with modern day GNR is actually like.  Duff certainly seemed to be enjoying himself last time.  And he's 50 years old.  What's he got to loose?

Time.

As in, that first time he's sitting backstage waiting for the Axlcopter to arrive.  At 10:30PM.

I think Slash has a bigger issue with that than Duff.  Again, I'm just going by the events of last year and Duff's uber-willingness to tour with Guns for a good amount of shows knowing full well what the deal is with Axl going on stage when Axl's ready.  And the feedback we got on his twitter was glowing about what a blast he was having.

Also, is this even an issue anymore. Haven't they been pretty much on time the past couple of years?

It's improved to point where I don't think Duff would *not* tour with GNR again over it.

I'm sure you're aware of this already, but just an FYI: The show Duff did in Las Vegas started just before midnight.
The shows he did with GN'R in South America started between 10:30PM and midnight.

Didn't seem to bother him there.

But you must've known that already.  :)



/jarmo

I'd argue certain members like Duff is good to Axl's health. I mean as you said yourself when Duff was there, he came on time, he looked happy too. I could honestly see Duff coming back if Axl wanted him to. He only left Axl in '97 because the band had booked a studio for 3 years and still hadn't had an album out. Now he's in a better place mentally and he didn't seem to mind being with Axl again for almost a month on the road. It seemed good vibes all around.

True, DX talks like it happens all the time.  Also, the guys are older now and have different priorities.  If Duff rejoins and Axl never puts out another album.....I don't think Duff would even care.  And someone pointed out Duff would have to drop everything and tour when time comes.  I disagree.  If Duff were having some life emergency, I doubt they would tour at that moment.  And if GNR wanted to tour while Duff had plans with his other band, well I'm sure Duff would know what he signed up for.  Remember, this would be Duff , not someone new to GNR.  Duff was one of the first guys...he would be playing HIS songs....and making more money doing it.  IF in fact he made that commitment back to the band, I'm sure he would be loving it......because HE CHOSE to be back.  Wasn't forced.  I'm sure he loves his band....but if he were back with GNR and good with Axl again, I believe he would quickly fall back into loving GNR a bit more.  GNR was his baby, just as it was Axl, Slash, Izzy's, etc.

So that's a pretty ignorant comment.     What is this vs you speak of?


Do you really look at any gnr post and think the worst? 

From what I am reading.  Everything you post.  Via someone's interview. Gnr topic, etc you try to spin in the negative.  Why?   

Do you just like arguing with the moderators on the site?

Because that's what it seems. 

Save your private wars to the PMs.    Save us all from your attention seeking battle

I am tired of scrolling throw page of topics I would love to talk about.  Only to have a bunch of ball wearing goobers, constantly finding something negative to argue with

Beat it

Having a gig or two is way different than touring from 6 to 12 months  :)

What effect (if any) do you think it has on continuity if Duff replaced Tommy?

Since the re-launch, every guitarist has been replaced, and the drummer has been replaced twice.  The one constant through this adventure has been Tommy.

Do any of you guys thing that's a concern from a band identity standpoint?

Well according to MSL, Duff had BEGGED to re join the band for a time after he and Axl reconnected, and even tho Axl was probably tempted he was loyal to Tommy... so there ya go... close the thread... :)

Baconman...are you back on the sauce???

Anyway, I think it would be great if Duff rejoined full time.  If the Replacements shows go well, and Paul and Tommy really hit it off again, and they start thinking about putting out a new album, more touring, etc., Tommy will be at a real crossroads.  I mean, the Replacements isn't Hookers and Blow (which was fun to see, btw).  I'm not sure Tommy could co-exist in both bands at the same time.

Having Duff back would hopefully energize Axl more...he certainly seemed extra-juiced during the shows when Duff played. 

I get a kick out of Bacon's posts... his theories vary day to day... lol

I have a man crush on the former King of Beers... and i'd love to see it. But like it's been pointed out, I have trouble seeing it without him being on equal footing with Axl, meaning him having to be his employee would be a non starter...plus I also in my heart of hearts think he would want Slash in the fold.

No!  Anyone who follows music knows this is how GNR is today.  You either bitch about it....or could care less.  Those people out there who are fans of GNR today, obviously don't really care, or else they wouldn't be fans.  Not a concern, unless your goal in life is to see GNR as the biggest band in the world again.  Not gonna happen

I don't see Duff rejoining GNR without Slash

I really don't either.  I think it would be kind of awkward.

Chris Pitman.



/jarmo

I don't see how it would be that awkward, he's already done it- played the Chinese stuff, the lot.

I'm still rather unclear on what he actually does.

If you lifted him right out, does anything change?

Check your Chinese Democracy booklet if it's unclear.



/jarmo

That's...very helpful.

I can't help you understand the exact production work he did. But that's what the booklet states. In addition to co-writing two songs.
If that's enough for you to discredit him, that's your misguided opinion.



/jarmo

In a shocking turn of events, I don't keep the booklet to a CD I bought 6 years ago right here on my desk at the office.

Some "fan" I am, I suppose.

I gave you info where to look.
Can't always hold your hand. Sorry. :)

I assumed you knew what I told you. After all, aren't you one of those hardcore fans?  :nervous:




/jarmo

Depends who you ask, I find.

Look, I asked a question.  I didn't run the guy down or take a shot of any kind.

In a perfect world, you might have talked him up a bit.  Seems you are more interested in picking a fight, however.  But it's a fight that does not interest me.

You stay classy, Jarmo.

Mother Goose co-wrote Madagascar and If The World. He plays on every track on the album. He has been with Axl since 1998.  His contributions are not minor by any stretch. Who is the last guy to see Axl in a studio? (we have evidence!)....Mother Goose.  : ok:

There's no fight.
It seems like you got plenty of free time, so why not just look it up instead of asking somebody to do it for you? :)

To begin with, you didn't even include him. So it kinda gives it away. In your opinion, he doesn't do a lot. When that's your starting point, I'm not necessarily gonna waste my time Googling stuff for you.

Now you know where to look when you get home!





/jarmo

For years I just thought of him as "the 'Silkworms' guy" since Axl singled him out for it at RIR III.

I thought that song was little more than a bad joke for like 12 years, but I have come around on it.

I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think it would be a bad move on his end to re-join. Business wise it probably makes sense. Even if he is hired as an employee.

He still get's paid all of his publishing royalties. Still has a say on the releases. So the check he gets from touring is what it is...a pay check.

He can also use it as an outlet to promote Loaded and any other band he has going. For all intents and purposes VR is dead so GnR affords him an outlet to promote all of his other endeavors on a larger scale.

Marketing for other bands? I don't think that this is a good reason... I can't remember that Robin ever used GN'R to promote NIN for example.

BBF is more popular now because of GNR. We wouldnt know who the Dead Daisies were if not for Fortus being in GNR. Ashba promotes Ashba Swag and sells merch at GnR shows. So to say that members don't use GnR to help promote there outside activities is a little naive.

That's probably my biggest issue with the current lineup...it seems just about everyone (save Axl and Pittman) uses GnR as a vehicle to promote their true passion side project.  An argument can be made that being in Guns is actually their side project.  Note: not saying that's true or a fact, simply a discussion point.

And that would be the only real result of Duff rejoining.  Not because Duff would be intentionally using GNR pushing Loaded, but let's be realistic here: Duff rejoining GNR would not further his career as a musician.  It would be nostalgia only; playing the old songs and nothing more.  It might be different if GNR were much more active with new ventures and albums, but as it stands, GNR has long ago run its course for Duff.  He quit the band 18 years ago, and he's long since engaged himself in new ventures that are creative and fulfilling to him, one of them being Loaded.  Loaded would inevitably receive a lot more publicity if Duff were in GNR (whether they were opening for GNR or not), and that would be a bigger benefit to Loaded (or any Duff side project) than GNR, even if Duff weren't deliberately trying to use GNR to promote Loaded.

True...but GnR didn't start out as his side project.  A man's got to live...he's left 18 years ago and had to move on with his life/career.  But Guns was his true passion.  There would be a reason (besides promoting Loaded) for him to rejoin.

I have talked about Robin, not about Richard, Ashba or Ron.

Yes I am skiing right now in the Rockie mountains. 

Lol

So ya the sauce is good right now


But sorry for this post or reply

We have to give back the power hour to the others....   That just want to get a rise out of the moderators


Negative always.   Why here?    Why allowed

So a couple of posts ago you are asking what pitmans role,was in the band

Then after getting called out on it you supply the above fluff?

So you post messages daily.  In what you say, multiple guns n roses forums.

And you really don't know what pitmans role in the band is?

Right..........

NIN was never Robins band. He was a touring member. An employee. NIN is Trent Reznor.

If Duff were to rejoin GnR full time it would set ablaze the reunion fires and Duff would be forced to spend every waking second talking about hisrelationship with Slash. I would love to see Duff back - but it would overshadow (in the press) anything the band does imo.

I think these are legit concerns.

The reunion people would absolutely see it as a sign.  Its not hard to envision them thinking that Duff could eventually wear Axl down and get him to patch it up with Slash.

Last time he joined GN'R, it wasn't on a permanent basis.  ;)
So first you'd need to define permanent.

Then you'd need to figure out the why.

All these hypothetical scenarios can be fun, but there's a lot of IFs, WHYs and BUTs involved.




/jarmo

Well permanent in my mind would be him contributing to the next GNR record , whenever that may be AND being the bass player during all shows going forward.

It is certainly a hypothetical discussion... but one worthy of discussing due to what transpired last year and the turnover rate in this band... so if the bass player spot did open... he really becomes the only choice. (if he wants the job)

Agreed.

You'd also have to look about how he talks about the situation publically.  Duff has never been shy to speak on the record about stuff, and tends to be pretty clear.  Such as, he was very clear the last time how it was something of a one off and he was a fill in.

I wouldn't consider him a permanent replacement until he stopped those qualifiers.

The operative word being "was".  In his book, Duff stated that by 1997, GNR was no longer the most important thing in his life.  He also stated the truly magical time in the band was 1985-1988, and that everything got bloated after that.

You said it yourself, Duff left 18 years ago and moved on.  His passions (and priorities) are greatly different now.  GNR is like an old girlfriend from 25 years ago; the fire just isn't going to reignite, even if people want to keep gazing longingly at photos of them together.


There you go.

You can re-ignite the flame or the passion. I think circumstances dictated his feelings for the old band. Under different circustances I can see him rejoining. Everyone is older and (hopefully) wiser. Also, taking a step away from a situation can help you see things differently. He obviously still has a passion for music.

I think Duff and everybody involved minus Axl would like to do it... It's just impossible... too much time has passed and Axl is too invested with his songs that are still unreleased. If there was a clean slate and nothing on deck.. then it would be more plausible.

Whether Duff would want to 100 percent commit to GNR without Slash and Izzy is the real question.