Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Scheduled to be released here on monday, with Mitch Lafon:

talkingmetal.com/digital/category/oneonone/

Richard is asked some GNR-related questions

Could be interesting. Will listen in.

To be clear:

Does it say anything about when the interview was conducted?

Not sure,to be honest. Someone e-mailed me the information.
I thought some might be interested in tuning in,so I posted here.

Sorry I can't be of more help :peace:

Cool.

He was pretty forthcoming that guitar clinic thing.  Hopefully, this is more of the same.

Hopefully he has something to share in regards to the record or who is in or out of the band so we can stop arguing about the Grammys!

Is this another interview for personal reason and his other band where we are just lucky if he is just asked a few questions about gnr.   Or is this an interview just about gnr, cause I have never heard or read one of those interviews yet from anyone in the band other than Axl

If it's a recent interview, I'm guessing it's about the Dead Daises playing in Cuba (with maybe a few Guns questions sprinkled in).

Could well be.  That's about as good as we do on press anyway.

It would be awesome if he said he was free to take this trip because the album was all done though.

It's brutal and shouldn't be as good as it gets.  Even though I agree it is.

As long as guns n roses is a band with management we should have interviews and press about guns n roses.  Interviews about guns n roses. 

Guns n roses and us fans are actually lucky members of the band are apart of other bands   Because if they weren't we would never hear anything, read anything, see recent pictures of members, etc.   total joke

Well, we haven't in 15 years, so...I'm rather used to it.

A lot of times, since that's inconvenient, we try and only go from when TB took over onwards.

OK, fine.  Because we don't have interviews from any of these other fellas in that time either.



I've heard this said on other boards too.  If not for the side projects, we'd really be in the dark.

How can you consider the band members other bands side projects?   If anything guns n roses has become there side project

We used to hear the odd thing from previous management.  This one nothing

I think you could say, over time, this has become the case.

You can really see the passion the guys have for there other bands.  They tour, write there music and biggest thing is, have control

I am sure as artists they are very proud of there work.  I think they really like talking about it.  Especially with other people that feel the same way. 

I am sure many of the guys are very proud of the time they have spent in guns.  I am sure many of the guys that wrote and performed on CD are very proud of that.  I am sure they would just love to talk about all these things with people with like mind, that have interesting questions that would deliver interesting answers mb even letting us here some kick ass stories

But no. 

What we get is interviews from band members regarding there other bands.  And just hoping the person asking the questions asks something about guns.   Total joke

From your lips to Axl's ears, my friend.

Assuming there's something to promote and talk about.

Many of these interviews are done when GN'R are on a break. Therefore it's natural that there won't be a GN'R focus.



/jarmo

I agree.  But let's think ahead a few steps.

When the time comes the album is ready to go out, do you think we will then get such interviews with the guys that actually worked on it?  Interviews about the GNR album, as the focus?

Yes, I hope there's a marketing plan and they schedule interviews.

Most of these guys have done interviews about GN'R during the tours.



/jarmo

Yeah, but very little about the album they worked on all that time.

I'm not saying that stories about life on the road don't have their place.  But some interviews about what it was like working on all this stuff would also be cool.

I do not agree

When you are in a full time band.  There are no breaks.  You are in what can be considered a buisness, which should be operating 24-7 to promote its product.  No you don't get interviews 24-7.  But in this day and age you would have a great web site that does operate 24-7.

Regardless.  If I was to agree with your, they are on a break point.....    Where are all the interviews and promotion from the band when they are not on this break?

Where was all the promotion and interviews from the band members involved in CD?

Ok that was years ago

Recently....

Vegas is a total tourist town...   Durring the no. Performance days members of gnr should of been travelling around doing interviews promoting that resedency and getting the name GNR out to people and let them know about the resedency.   Where are all the interviews and stuff from the band when they are not on a break?


There is always something to talk about!!!!   And just the fact that any member of the the band is giving a interview soley about guns n roses would be huge!   It would give the current band credibility as actually being a band and not a side project to the members other bands and would also give guns some great promotion!!!

You might be right with that and I am really don't want to say they don't do interviews durring the tours.  So don't post a bunch of links proving it.  Haha

The point I am trying to make, kinda is.  If they are doing this durring tours the. It's not enough because as a hard core fan I don't notice.  So the mainstream bum fans forsure are not noticing

The interviews are like ad campaigns. If you have no new product to sell, you usually stay quiet.
I'm talking about actual scheduled interviews here, not "Oh! Hi! I didn't expect to see you here! What's new with GN'R?" kind of things.




Sometimes it's for local newspapers, radio, TV. So it's not necessarily for you. Aimed at you.




/jarmo

I try making this point all the time.  Often with little success.

I tend to talk about promotion that the mainstream can see.  But when I bring it up, I get a link to a 5 question interview Dizzy did with 'Jammin' Joe's Bitchin' Blog'.

Not really what I'm getting at.  Even if you can't secure an interview with a huge mainstream outlet, at least pick one that might be picked up by one.

Agreed.  And that makes sense, right now.

But I have zero confidence that will change even when a new album comes out.  It would certainly run very contrary to how things were done last time around.

That's one aspect of interviews

Sometimes artists give interviews becuase they are proud of there work and no matter when it came out they want to talk about it

Sometimes interviews are because the artist has a huge ego and likes talking about himself because it's there favorite subject

Sometimes interviews are front the managment becuase they are getting paid, so they might as well be doing everything they can to keep there bands name out there instead of not doing that

Usually when it comes to other bands, where the band members have side projects.   They main interview will be about there lead band. With just a few questions regarding the side band.  It is the complete reverse with guns.

More interviews, more stories more current pictures are all a good thing!!!  It's good for both the fans and for the band

If I havnt read or heard a interiew I would bet that the guy living next to me hasn't read or heard it.  He would be the guy u are trying to reach

If the band isn't going to do one big interview.  What they have to do is 10000 smaller interviews hoping that the guy next door to me sees one

You can't just do one small interview and then say.   There, I did a interview see!! 

I truly hope that Richard will tell something about an upcoming tour or even plans about the next album, fingers crossed!!  :beer:

Spot on.

What is there to talk about though?

At this stage :

- album is done/not done
- looking for a release this year/not this year
- looking to tour this year/not this year

Hopefully answered in clear enough language we don't descend into another debate about "what the meaning of 'is', 'is'" type stuff, like we are forced to do all too often.

What's going on with Ron and if he was to leave what he would like the band to do?  I.e hire another lead guitar player, or stick with the current guys and if so who would take over what parts?

The recording process durring CD. What producers did he have  in contact with?  Was he around for when Brian May came in for a few solo works?

Has he wrote any new material for guns?  Has anyone and has he heard it?  Has he been involved with anything I. Regards to the stuff from the CD recordings?  WhAte going on with all of that

Would buckethead even be in character behind the scenes?  Or would he ever break it

His dream band to open for guns on the next tour.  A band that is currently active

There a few good ones to get started

And

- lead guitarist is in/out

Yes, good points. I guess I am so used to being fobbed off by this band that I had forgotten most bands talk like that.

So there is nothing to promote and talk about when there is not a break?

I hate comparing guns to other bands

But come on

This is what you do!!!

And just because one member of the band doesn't like to do them, doesn't mean the whole band doesn't lIke to do them

Those questions are just off the top of my head, but there tons of questions about many different things that many of the member would all have different takes on things   

When the band was touring, several band members did interviews.



/jarmo

"guess we'll have to wait and see" :)

According to Mitch Lafon, the interview was just done on Wednesday.

He asked Richard about both GN'R and the Dead Daisies.

Ali

Thanks!

Looking forward to hearing this.

Makes sense that he gets asked about the Dead Daisies as well with the Cuba thing they're doing now.

Hopefully it'll be mainly GN'R related though.

Thanks as well

As much as I go on rants about how I think things should be

As a fan I never pass up the chance to see anything gnr related and am looking forward to this

Listen here: http://www.spreaker.com/user/talkingmetal/one-on-one-91-aerosmith-gnr (http://www.spreaker.com/user/talkingmetal/one-on-one-91-aerosmith-gnr)

"I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon. We have been working on material. And that sort of starts and stops, but we're still plugging away at it."

"Is it frustrating? You know, if I didn't have other things going on, it probably would be. But I've got other things that I focus on. I've been doing GN'R now for what?! 13, 14 years. It's the nature of what it is. I've never met anybody that has so much genuine musical integrity. He won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music. And he won't defend himself in the press, because he doesn't think it matters; it's just about the music ? that's all he cares about. I've worked with a lot of people in this business, and I've never seen, or met, anybody that was motivated purely by that ? by the desire to make art. And you can say whatever you want about it, 'cause he's not gonna defend himself, but he is that, and that's for sure. Otherwise, there would have been a reunion, because the offers for money have been outrageous. But he would never do a reunion unless it was for something besides money."


On whether fans' criticism of GUNS N' ROSES and Axl Rose is fair or if people are just not being open-minded enough:

"Well, it depends on what they're criticizing. I think it frustrates fans with the lack of information that's given, it frustrates them with the lack of product. The fact that they wanna buy albums, they wanna support the band, but they can't. And we do tour, we have toured a lot? I don't know? I don't know if it's justified or not."

On GUNS N' ROSES' reputation for stage tardiness:

"The last few years, it's been very? It's not like a lot of bands, where it's like clockwork. It's different, and it's never gonna be that, because that's not who he is. But, man, you know, he's the real deal. He is the real deal. And he lives it, and, like I said, all he cares about is the music. For the longest time, when I first started with the band even, I thought it was by design. I thought, 'He has this worked out.' 'Cause, you know, it's two hours after we're supposed to start, three hours? and people are? stadiums full of people just booing. And the second he'd walk out on stage, all that energy, all that? on the verge of chaos, of just imploding and everyone just rioting, right at that moment he walks out on stage, and all of that negative energy just goes totally up right into the palm of his hand. I mean, it's phenomenal to watch. And I thought it was by design; I thought that he had figured out some type of way to judge the moment, but it's not. [Laughs] It's not. It's just? That's just what he is. He's not gonna walk out on stage until he is? It's not like he's sitting back watching TV and eating potato chips. Man, he goes through a lot to walk out on stage. Just everything? with being himself? to get into the right place within himself."

On whether GUNS N' ROSES still exists as a band:

"We're still doing GN'R as well, and we're still [doing other projects on the side]. We've been doing the DAISIES stuff before? Actually, when [GUNS N' ROSES was] on tour in Australia, ZZ TOP was opening for us, and on GN'R's 'off' days, ZZ was doing their own shows, and on those days, THE DEAD DAISIES were opening for ZZ TOP."

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-n-roses-richard-fortus-on-axl-roses-stage-tardiness-he-goes-through-a-lot-to-walk-out-on-stage/


/jarmo

I feel kind of bad for Axl sometimes.  Most of the remaining fan-base seem to be holding out hope that one day he is going to change.  One day he will suddenly begin to do interviews, release music, tour and make music video's and be in a successful active band.  

Its clear that he is quite comfortable not doing any of those things.  

I'd actually be quite surprised if a new album ever comes out.  I think he is a bit traumatized by the success of the original band and seems happier with the quiet life these days.  

So that was not encouraging ......


Not even a tour anytime soon?


He tells us Axl is a great guy tho...lots of integrity..

This was my thought for a the past few years too.

But then I got sucked in by that interview last year, because it was the first time he talked about something new in 5 years.

Not even a little bit.

Though I'm sure you an I are ultimately mistaken on that.  We shall have to wait to find out just how much.

Good, honest interview by Richard. Always a class act. I like the part about there won't be a reunion and how it's not about the money. Even he is probably shocked by how much money has been thrown at Axl

Yeah nothing bad to say about Richard ...he "gets it"...

He seems to understand both sides of the coin.

so, nothing really new on the horizon?

Not based on this interview.  Unless he's just trolling us.

And I hope (but ultimately know won't happen) that we can separate the fact he talked versus what he said. 

In other words, we should be able to be happy he did this, but can still be a bit discouraged by what was said.  And I hope this doesn't devolve into being lectured we always complain about no interviews and are now unhappy, so it shows they are right never talking.

But it will.

Well, what he said was there'd be no reunion "unless it was for something besides money."

How do you reconcile this with DJ's "quite a bit of touring" for 2015, and Axl's interview?  Do we just chalk it up to "plans change"?  It's hard to know who to believe...Richard seems to be pretty honest but who knows.  It's depressing in the sense that there's really no band now...the vibe seems more of a casual gathering of people who seem content to be playing in other bands.

I believe Richard more than I do DJ.

If I am faced with two guys telling competing tales, and one telling us a hard truth that will be unwelcome, versus the other telling us what we would tend to find the optimum outcome, I lean towards the former.

Yes.  And when I say, "it's depressing..." I'm not typing this from the ledge.  My life (somehow) will continue to go on.  It's just a bummer in the sense that there was a lot of momentum in 2014 and now the brakes seem to have been slammed on.

Agreed.  The "your life must be empty and horrible" is such a ridiculous talking point put out by the "real fans" to quash dissent.

Context is a thing in life.  Its a real thing.  In the context of talking about GNR in 2015, this was a bummer.  In terms of our everyday lives, it has no impact.

Well at least he understands fans point of view. As for the reuni?n, I?m not sure if he is in a position to answer that. I mean if promoters or whoever want a reunion they are not going to talk to Richard about it. Besides the answer is nothing new. But not only Axl is the one who wouldn?t do it for money only, all of them (maybe not Adler) have that same position.

Unfortunately there are many issues blocking the reunion other than personal friendship. Anyway with out without reunion  the band is dead

This passage is most interesting,


He agrees with the fans' criticism but it is rather like, nothing will change: Axl is unmovable, in how he operates. An album might take, 10, twenty years - certainly a long time - because it is made on 'Axl time'. There is no desire to keep the fans informed in a manner like most other bands. It is just, how Axl operates. It is what it is.

It?s over. Richard won?t say that because he is not the one who has to write the death certificate. An album in 10 years doesn?t make any sense unless Axl is dead. Axl is not operating anything at all. That doesn?t mean Axl can?t do so some benefit concert from time to time

Good interview, very interesting on several fronts.

Those that want to see the worst and paint every situation dark and dire will obviously continue to do so.

I'm grateful not to be so pessimistic, I saw a lot of positive in this interview.

Nonsense.

Alarmist attitude for sure.

Reread this
"I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon. We have been working on material. And that sort of starts and stops, but we're still plugging away at it."

Can you expand on that?

What, in particular, was the silver lining, as you see it?

I thought it was a very informative interview, the current album is still being worked on.
See here:
"I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon. We have been working on material. And that sort of starts and stops, but we're still plugging away at it."

He also had very nice things to say about Axl :)

What was so dire about it?

But what makes this different from the 147 times we've heard this over the past however many years?  Is this really new?

The combination of nothing new and the restating of the same old stuff about them still tinkering with material and Axl being just the best guy ever.

All stuff we've heard many, many, many times now.

Its not so much that its dire, its just that nothing seems to have changed.  Could we not have guessed those answers ourselves last week, having heard them ad nauseum?

Oh I get it, the interview did not meet your little needs and wants so you feel the need to attack anyone and everyone that enjoyed it.

Poor you.

The album is being worked on, sorry they are not on your schedule.

Doesn't seem like they are on anyone's schedule.

Sorry you are so bitter and bored you feel the need to see the negative in everything.

I enjoyed the interview and it's great that the album is still coming.

Just because they are not on your little schedule hardly means they are not on anyone's.

Its not about seeing negative.  Its about seeing nothing new.

Compare this to his guitar clinic thing.  That was a very interesting watch, because he brought new info to the table.  Part of this reason for this sort of disappointed reaction is likely comparing it to that.

However, I think its important to keep in mind that clinic was pretty obviously recorded without his say so, given the angle of the camera used.  I think what that whole thing showed is the difference between talking off the record and on.  

Off the record, interesting.  On the record, we could type out his answers right now before the next interview, couldn't we?



Which you likely thought last week.  And last month.  And last year.  And the year before that.

What was said here that mattered to you if you already thought all was right with the world?  If you never even heard this, you'd still think all that, no?

I am not part of the equation.  That taunt has no relevance.

It just makes you feel better because you have deluded yourself into thinking "real fans" only speak when spoken to.  That's your fantasy, not mine.

It was confirmation on what was already known, the touring information was confirmation as well.

I enjoyed his comments on getting onstage and Axl's integrity.

Real art can't be manufactured.

The thing that annoys me is the difference in what Richard says and dj says about touring this year ...

One of them is a liar or just runs his mouth ...at the very least I'm hoping for some shows towards the fall ... Just to see who is actually on stage!

Richard cautioning that there seems to be no rush at the moment and that recording is in and off when last year at the Golden Gods he said hopefully it will come out this year ... That doesn't sound good.

But hey ... Emily is cool with it ! Haha

Your fantasy is to pretend to be an expert on management, production, marketing, and to try to stress your own importance and faux expertise.

I havent deluded myself into a thing, you clearly have issues with dedicated supporters and fans of this band.
But to you I suppose I'm a card-carrying cult member. :hihi:

But are they seriously still working on 10-12 year old songs?  Is that what he's saying here?

For once, I think I would have preferred the "label as boogeyman" answer.  

Nobody is a liar here except you presuming to speak for others.
Your cheerleading attempts usually fail.

Are you not cognizant that situations can change or are you honestly that dense?

That isnt what he said at all, did he once specify any song or certain songs?

If you will actually read the Revolver interview, it indicates some newer material.

I can conceive of no scenario where she would find fault.

The discrepancy between Richard and DJ is a legit question, but I suspect many have stopped taking DJ seriously on that stuff for some time.

In a sense, yeah.  I guess you could say that.

It seems you have the same reaction to GNR flying you out to Vegas on their dime with front row seats as you would them dropping an anvil on your head.  Its always all good.

He also said it was finished.  But we saw the circling of the wagons and furious attempts to downplay that too, didn't we?

Everyone here is missing the most important part,


He said that without accusing those same fans of possessing 'entitlement issues' or having 'no social life'!

Quite a fair and understanding comment by Richard, I thought.

I found this pretty diplomatic.

They didn't say it at the same time.
Nobody lied.




/jarmo

Although I am not sure I can see what he means by 'artistic integrity'. Granted, I accept the 'reunion' argument but clocking-in Vegas every year, with a fixed 'hits' set is not what I call 'artistic integrity'. It is like he is describing a completely different artist, Neil Young or Floyd or somebody, in that passage.

He probably means somebody who puts his art first. Even if it means you'll have to spend years on a message board complaining about there not being a new album out. ;)

The art comes first. That's integrity.


/jarmo

I agree. My question is what happened to W. Axl Rose? The guy was all over the place from 87-93. He was doing interviews and performances. 94-present not much. Did the breakup of the original band take a lot out of him?? If so,  why not reform the original lineup and get things going?  If not then he needs to push forward with the new lineup. I said it once before on here. I have my doubts that new songs will come out while he's alive.  I really hate saying that, but nothing leads me to think that anything will be released.

There is no 'art' if you do not create art though!

But their statement are diametrically opposed.

Quite a gulf between "lost of touring" and "no touring".

You get rid of everyone with a dissenting opinion, you wind up not having to do anything you don't want to do.

Maybe DJ has been told those things. We don?t know. But this is GN?R "we will tour" "we have recorded" could mean something today and could mean absolutely nothing tomorrow in the GN?R world.

Axl hImself has said thing "After Vegas we?re going to look very seriously in that regard" That and a whole bunch of things over the years.

It seems to suggest a complete absence of communication, of the constituent parts of Guns N' Roses.

no way! :D

Even in this interview, Richard mentions them creating art. So there you go.
If you look hard enough, you can even find song titles for these pieces of art.




And how is that unclear to you?

If Dj said that GN'R plans to tour in 2015 back in September 2014, how is what Richard said last week confusing you?




/jarmo

Simply because some aspects of recording are finished does in no way indicate that all and every procedure is finished nor does it indicate that they have been turned in.

That was never said.

You have absolutely no way of knowing what has been created.

He might be a modern day Da Vinci. Not much use to us if he does not release any of this 'art' though. We can only perceive Axl through, what he releases to us - not by his hidden vaults.

Heck, I could proclaim that I have ten albums, all masterpieces, in my cupboard but nobody is going to believe me until I start releasing them!

Absolutely nothing Richard said has contradicted anything said in the Revolver interview.

Nonsense, you are attempting to paint your own narrative again.

No idea why this interview is causing the haters and the idiots to do backflips.  :hihi:

It's almost like some of you were expecting a release date and song titles to be announced in this interview.
He answered the questions he was asked.  Pretty simple. That's usually what an interview is about...

He pretty much confirmed what most GN'R fans already know. Axl is Axl. Some of you have a somewhat difficult time living with this fact, and are hoping he'll change to be more like the idea of Axl that you think is optimal, but only lives inside your head...  :)




You can. But in Axl's case we have a track record (hello!) of things he has released and I'd rather hear his music than wait for yours. :)




/jarmo

You have to go back a very very long time, to 1986-1994, to find an Axl releasing something on any sort of consistent basis. Since then, one album in 22 years. It is a blot on Axl's artistic integrity.

Doesn't matter. He didn't release it until he thought it was ready. That's integrity!
You don't like or agree with it? That's fine. But don't question it.  : ok:

It just makes it seem like you have a hard time giving him any credit for anything. You'll just turn it into something negative.
Richard gave Axl credit for having integrity and here you are talking about the time instead of what was said.



/jarmo

Maybe Axl should lay off the integrity if it'll help him release some music. Not a lot, just sacrifice like, I don't know, 7%?
93% Integrity is still really good.

 I think we already know the title of the songs. But Richard was the one saying Axl have recorded vocals. Next time he better clarify that recording volcals is just a hobby for Axl so we can avoid another misunderstanding. Just like he said something that starts and stops.

But you?re. I also rather hear the old albums. The Axl that was, the band that was. Nothing can take that away from us.  :)

Nor you.

No one knows anything about the magical mystery vault.

This fanbase is so beaten down, we turn the slightest anything into great news.  We threw a party when YCBM was the opener one night.

Richard didn't really give us anything new.  In fact, he sort of tamped down some of the positivity we had going.  Hence the reaction.



That's probably even money right now.

Nah, it can always be spun as him not feeling it ready.

What its a blot on, is Axl as a viable artist.  He might as well put the rights to the name on E-bay.  Give someone else a crack at trying to match his breakneck pace.

There's no way to avoid misunderstandings with certain people. Haven't you noticed?



Yeah, you should definitely go listen to the old albums and stop wasting everybody's time with your smiley only posts that add zero to any discussion. :)



Because he said there's no touring planned at this particular moment? I thought you'd be happy about that.....  :P




/jarmo

That's one spin.

Another is that he was (and is?) crippled by self doubt and the only reason we even got what we got was because his hand was forced.

Yes yes, you've already proven to be the person who really knows everything....

 :hihi:




/jarmo

What is this "integrity"? My opinion it's an excuse. You can have integrity and still release music.  

I'd absolutely trade work on a new album for another 'Still Have An Appetite For Some More Democracy Tour : Some Trickery' tour, yes.

Everybody has a spin, brah.  Way of the world.

I?m afraid not. The integrity that Richard mentioned is related to a reunion not about new music with the new band. And Axl is not doing a reunion not because of integrity but because he knows he can?t get away with things like he did in the past. the old guys won?t let him this time around. Of course Axl won?t say that to Richard or DJ. So he is bullshiting them about integrity.

Of course its an excuse.

Its a desperate attempt to church up the inactivity.  

Why should he do that? To appease some people that don't appreciate him?

I think not.

He releases music on his terms, if you can't appreciate that there are plenty of bands that this certainly doesnt apply to, so you might be happier glomming onto them.

It's a reason for GN'R not doing what you think when you think they should.
You call it an excuse. Because you think it's a negative thing.



There you go. Time for a happy dance?  :hihi:



No it isn't! Did you even listen to it?

I've never met anybody that has so much genuine musical integrity. He won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music. And he won't defend himself in the press, because he doesn't think it matters; it's just about the music ? that's all he cares about. I've worked with a lot of people in this business, and I've never seen, or met, anybody that was motivated purely by that ? by the desire to make art. And you can say whatever you want about it, 'cause he's not gonna defend himself, but he is that, and that's for sure. Otherwise, there would have been a reunion [of the classic GUNS N' ROSES lineup], because the offers for money have been outrageous. But he would never do a reunion unless it was for something besides money."

He brings up the reunion at the end as an example of making a lot of money.

Also: But, man, you know, he's the real deal. He is the real deal. And he lives it, and, like I said, all he cares about is the music.




/jarmo

And again, you are 100% wrong. Not surprising.

If it pans out, yes.

Peace in the Middle East might pan out too.  I will celebrate that as well.

Of course they use the word excuse, because to them, it makes no sense to have musical integrity if it means the albums don't come out as soon as they want.

In essence, they don't like Axl being Axl.
Which is weird considering they are GN'R fans.



/jarmo

But he is not making any music. Richard said it starst and stops. We know there is stuff in The Vault. So what? That is something that has been done more than 10 years ago. Now if there is some legal issue with those songs that?s another story. Then we?re talking about a problem that needs to be solved. But at this point there is no indication of such a thing.

I'm not 100% wrong as I am telling you something you 100% don't want to hear.

If you want to try and sell me "integrity" as a reason for no reunion, I'll buy it.

One album in the past 20 plus years, and still no real idea if there is a next one?  Not integrity.  Inactivity.  The rest is just spin.

Emily, I have seen you chide DX and anyone that may disagree with how Axl does things. Enough already with the BS.  It doesn't make anyone less of a fan if she/he disapproves of how Axl does things. You can ask anyone who has ever known me over the last 28 years that I'm a hardcore Guns N' Roses fan.

The guy has talent that he's wasting. It's sad to see this.  

You tell yourself what you want to hear.  It works for you.  Good on ya.

It doesn't meant he rest of us need to switch off our critical thinking and join in the delusion.

That's the real shame here.

So few truly talented rock frontmen, and a guy like him comes along once or twice a generation.

And he's just pissed so much of it away.  Its unfortunate.

Is that your opinion or are you stating it as a fact?

So you were wrong about the integrity part. Glad we agree on that!




How can it be done for ten years if Axl recorded stuff last year (according to Richard's Q&A in Australia last year)?




Your critical thinking is what anybody with a keyboard and minimal amount thinking can accomplish.
Doesn't exactly require a lot of actual thinking.





/jarmo

So then what changed?  How do you go from "quite a bit of touring" in 2015 to "I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon"?

Dj made those comments last September, this interview was done in February 2015.
I'm assuming Richard has info that's more current than Dj's info from last summer?




/jarmo

It requires asking questions, and you aren't interested.

I understand the temporal difference between 5 months ago and last week.  My question is what changed?  Why did it go (arguably) from one extreme to the other?  Label issues?  Integrity?  What else?

maybe Axl decided to just work on an album.

I suppose it is about how you define 'artistic integrity'. I define it as, not selling out your artistic vision; not compromising your music for, nobody or nothing. Playing your thirty year old hits in Vegas seems a lot like, selling out your artistic vision in my eyes.

That is what we have to hope.

It seems impossible to believe if you could go back in time to 1999 and ask him what he hoped to accomplish over the next 15 years with Guns N' Roses and have this be his answer.

It seems impossible, because if this was the plan, that's pretty horrifying.

"Artistic integrity" seems to be thrown around here as never having to do anything unless and until all of your demands are met 100%.  A shorter definition of this is until Axl's good and fucking ready.

Yep.

And I get the impression that people tend to use the former as opposed to the latter because the latter makes him look difficult.  Can't have that.  Much better to insist its all about artistic integrity.  Because that's noble.  Sitting on your ass and not doing anything isn't.

Why doesn't Axl release albums as often as ______?
Because he's got musical integrity and only releases stuff when he thinks it's ready to be released.
That's an excuse.
No, it's a reason.

Simple.




Sometimes plans change. I know some of you don't like that. But they do.




You're kinda mixing it all up to prove your nonexistent point there I'm afraid.
Playing the songs that most people want to hear in concert, that's kinda normal. Even Neil Young does it, and what did Pink Floyd play once they reunited? The hits!

That has nothing to do with what Richard was talking about.

By the way, having a flying piano because you think there should be a flying piano in Las Vegas even though you know some Internet crusaders will not like it, is also integrity. ;)  :hihi:





Yeah, well there's the reason for him not being "ready" when everybody else thinks he should be....




/jarmo

Its spin.  Its spin embraced by people that dare not offend him and/or feel its their duty to put the best face on everything.

I'm in neither camp.

Neil Young, the hits? Are you kidding Jarmo!! The guy who refused to play Heart of Gold for the best part of 20 years? Young pissed many people off by playing his previously unheard of concept album, entirely. He also banned beer so people would listen properly. That album was Greendale. He has done many such things across his career. You are barking up the wrong tree there.

And this Floyd reunion? Was that that three song set at a charity gig?

Floyd, touring, playing full shows, used to play their entire new album, beginning to end!

Not a spin. You call it that because you don't like it.  :P


Sorry I'm late! There was a delay on the subway.
That's an excuse! You should be on time!
No, that's the reason I'm late.

Same thing. :)  :hihi:



Forever alone.  :hihi:



Saw him twice, and there were plenty of hits in his set.... :)
Heart Of Gold too!



Yeah, they played three hits! Those sell outs! ;)


/jarmo

Just what are these 'hits' you are talking about - I am a hardcore Neil Young fan by the way? There is literally not one song in Neil Young's oeuvre which is, undroppable. Heart of Gold? undroppable. RITFW? undroppable?

Its absolutely spin.

Who are the only people that subscribe to that theory?

 - people in his band (thus dependent on staying in his good graces)
 - people that travel the world on his dime (thus dependent on staying in his good graces)
 - fans that have convinced themselves that any question is an act of war (thus wanting to appear to be staying on his good side, because they are convinced that is their duty)

The first two at least make sense.  There is a direct benefit there.  

The third is a bit murkier.  While not as direct a connection, they still feel they best no rock the boat.

I'm not in any of those camps.  I'm just a fan free to say what's what.  He's not going to kick me out of his band.  He's not going to stop paying for my plane tickets.  And I'm fairly certain he doesn't monitor the internet 24/7/365 to see if I've been bad or good, so I better be good for goodness sake.

"I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon. We have been working on material. And that sort of starts and stops, but we're still plugging away at it."



I take this as a positive. The touring thing isn't bothering me much at this time. This is confirmation that they have been working on the material, which is good.

The "starts and stops" comment. It's hard to see what context he wants to put that in. It could apply to all the past years since the release of Chinese, or is he talking specifically about the situation since last summer?

Once again, you assume a lot.
The usual, anybody who says something positive has some kind of motives, often motivated by money.
You can't grasp the idea that these people have a better understanding of Axl than you'll ever have.





Stuff that you'd hear on classic rock stations. And when I saw him, he played plenty of those. Great shows by the way.
But he didn't play an album in full.




I don't get what was so bad about the interview. He confirmed they've worked on new stuff, he confirmed the band hasn't broken up and gave an update on the near future. Now you know!




Could mean both.
Axl hasn't necessarily lived in the studio every day since the last show, but he also hasn't been idle.



/jarmo

Fair point.

Money or favor, yeah.  That perspective will change when someone with something to lose ventures out of lockstep.

I am not holding my breath.



We've been over this countless times.

There may be people you can big time into silence with dippy shit like this.  I ain't one of 'em.

You know him and I don't, and I'm real, real impressed by that.  Doesn't mean I shouldn't speak my mind, even if it irks his water carriers.

Funny how you don't think this works the other way. Then you just laugh at it.
Ironic.




Doesn't mean I shouldn't call you clueless when you do. :)

I know it's hard for you to believe that Axl necessarily isn't the person you think he is. And it's ok! No shame in admitting that. Nobody's gonna make fun of you.
Just because you listen to the albums, burn copies to your friends and skip through interviews, doesn't mean you have great idea.



/jarmo

Do what you feel.  I'm not too worried about it.

It's the "we're still plugging away at it" comment that makes it sound like the new album is an annoying term paper that you don't want to write.  You don't get the feeling that this is anyone's number 1 priority.  It's hard to reconcile that with the fact (per Axl) that the new album is "already recorded"...unless that plan fact has changed too.   

Yawn, you dont have the slightest idea what you are running your mouth about.

As usual, no surprises there.

It's actually amusing how much you don't know, and how seriously you take yourself. :hihi:

Already recorded does not necessarily mean edited, mixed, mastered or in any way ready for public consumption.

This isn't a hard fact to grasp. ::)

You have the Chinese stuff, which I assume is done and has been for some time.

Then you have new material, which I suspect is what Richard is referring to.

Question is, what's going on the next release. Richard says they've been working on 'material', he doesn't say they're working on 'the next album'. It could be understood in a way that they are preparing material for the album after the next.

Might as well have stopped there.

I did.

look at it this way, we could be fans of Van Halen right now. Maybe Axl is hanging with Diamond Dave in Japan!  :hihi:

When Rolling Stone asks Van Halen after the show about the band's current plans,  the guitarist is ambivalent, noting that the group has no immediate plans to record or tour. "I?d love to make a studio record," he says. "Depends on everybody?s timing. I don?t know what Dave [Lee Roth] is up to now. I don?t know if he?s living in New York or Japan or wherever he is."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/live-reviews/eddie-van-halen-shares-life-story-van-halen-update-at-smithsonian-20150213#ixzz3Rw7hW4NV
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Wouldn't that seem a little off to you though?  

As it is, we hope the new album comes out this year, which is only a mere 7 years since the last one.

The one after that?  When the hell would that be?

What I mean is. The guys are doing recording on 'their' new material atm, while Axl and Caram could be sitting in the studio, mixing the Chinese stuff going on the next album as we speak.

Well this is a little something to talk about. Glad to hear that they are in the studio and there are no touring plans. Very interesting how Richard cut some of the unhappy fans a little slack and even questioned if GNR is going about things the right way (whether or not it was "justified"). Glad to see that he understands where everyone is coming from. At the same time, he let us know that this is the way it's going to be. It was a pretty no nonsense interview. I do feel a little frustrated/disheartened about the lack of an update on the release of the next album, but I'm not sure why I was expecting one. Glad to hear that he still sounds pretty excited about working with Axl.

What he said about Axl waiting or not being able to come on stage until everyone starts getting fed up and there's that feeling of chaos in the air... It reminds me of something Mortis Murphey said about how Led Zeppelin would wait to tour until a lot of suspense was built up. Maybe that's part of Axl's approach to releasing music too. I'm not saying he has a master plan or anything, but that could be part of his approach. Or it could just be the way things play out.

The integrity is bullshit for many reasons. If as Richard says things are about music and art only then why Axl is using the GN?R name? That alone shows there is no integrity. Nor things are about art for the sake of art.

Now about music and art. If Axl is so concerned about his music integrity then he must create his own label and stay away from Universal or Sony or Warner. Why hasn?t he done that? He has made deals with Dr. Pepper and Best Buy. So much for integrity!!!

The music is old. Those songs and probably more have been in The Vault for over a decade. Axl said in 2001 they were recording 2 more albums besides CD. It is posible that they have been doing new takes  with some chages on what was previously recorded. But we are not talking about new songs. I really don?t think there is any BBF song they have been working on it.

 If Axl wants to turn into another Brian Wilson then fine! But that?s not integrity, it is stupidity.

We know for sure there won?t be any tour. It is the right thing to do because otherwise it doesn?t make any sense to keep touring with AFD and UYI songs. And most likely it won?t be any album either.

He continued with Guns N' Roses. It's not like he can pack his things and be on his way out the door at their label. They're under contract.

What deal did he make with Dr. Pepper? None.

Because he was the one who was there since day one!
Get over the name.


Why is this an issue? I don't get it.
Just because you're independent doesn't automatically mean you have more integrity.



The Vault? :D Sounds like a magical place.

The music is old? Did you hear it? You didn't? So it'll be new to you once you hear it then. I mean, assuming you want to hear it.

I know you personally have zero interest in it and it's puzzling why you keep coming here talking about something you have no interest in. You should just go back to wherever you came from and listen to those old albums. Stop wasting everybody's time already.  : ok:

Arguing on a fan site about a band you don't care about. WTF...





/jarmo

You?re the one wasting your time with me Darling. So you must care a lot about what I say.   :love:

But don?t worry. It?s over. We are all packing out bags sooner or later

Ultimately more of the same around here. Can't wait to see what this primordial soup of suspense, frustration, and extreme points of view turns into someday if Axl decides to give us more music.

You understand those things don't take long (e.g. years) to accomplish, right?  Ah yes, the crutch of mixing and mastering...when will that stop being used as an excuse for the inability to release a new album?  In terms of percentages, IMO, it has 0% on the ability to release a new album. 

The guy doing the interview is the one causing the "uncertainties". What are these rumors about the band not existing?? I check the Gn'r community on here and a few other places nearly every day and i've heard no mentions of this & why are people talking about reunions again? Did the RN'R hall of fame not clear that up?

You should be the first one. Considering you've admitted having no interest in this album you're here arguing about.
Pack your bags and go listen to those old songs that are actually old, and not new songs you think are old.  :D


Meanwhile on the Internet, people hiding behind usernames claim they have a better idea of what musical integrity is than a professional musician does.   :hihi:



I think somewhere in a galaxy far far away, people are assuming that the band doesn't exist because some members are doing other projects at the moment.





/jarmo

^^ I'm guessing it was in reference to a lot of the "Do you think Axl is going to retire?" and "We will not be getting any new music ever" stuff some fans say.

Is it a zero sum game though?

Do you not think it possible he could just have integrity in spades, but, still need a kick in the ass from time to time?

You'd get a far better interview if you actually knew your stuff. The Appetite for Democracy DVD is still relatively new why not plug that. It's a quality product.

Why are people freaking out?  Isn't "we're not touring anytime soon" good news?  This could mean Axl is possibly more focused on an album right now.  Yes, there's a side to me that thinks we might never get new music ever again (because of Axl's perfectionism/integrity/fears/..whatever you want to call it)....but not touring to me, is a good thing because it indicates focus elsewhere.  And hopefully that focus is on a new album or two. 

Does anyone remember how much they toured right before Chinese came out?

Well Mb the guy doing the interview was just using common sense.  He looks at a band where all the other members of the band are out touring, performing and writing for other bands.  He sees a band that hasn't released any music recently, other than a live concert blue ray.   So it's a fair question

And Richard gave a fair answer.   He could of easily said they are not really a band, it's all Axl.  But nope.  I like what he said

What I would of liked the interviewer to ask, when Richard said they work on stuff on and off.  He should of asked, like what kinda stuff?  New material or stuff you have had in the can for years?

Richard was right, guns have toured lots and I have been lucky enough to see them many times.   Or they have been lucky enough to have me attend there shows many times, however you want to look at it. 

But what I don't like

Is as a fan I feel bad not knowing what my favourite band is up too, but just imagine you are a band member and don't have a clue what the band is up too

I can't stand how a few months ago, we have DJ saying they are going to do quiet a bit of touring in 2015    Then we have Richard, saying pretty much the opposite   It's mind blowing how the band can't be on the same page with these things.  You can say plans change.  And they do. But I don't think plans where ever made to change!   If you just have a idea or one day just think you want to do something, doesn't make it s plan

Richard sure comes off good in these interviews though.  Does he have to most knowledge out of all the band members?   It seems that way, but who knows.  Mb just because he comes off better, as opposed to DJ I just want to believe Richard more.  Both could be totally in the dark when it comes to guns n roses plans and both be blowing smoke up my butt

Eventually you have to say the material is good enough to release.  I am a huge fan of the artistic side of Axl, his song writing and his ability to carry on the guns n Roses name, in a way that only he could do right

However, the dude needs to work around peers that also have an equal say in the product.   He works over and over again on stuff, that probably is done or is very close and should be released.  Then move on to the next piece of work.  As like what a editor would do, peers with equal controlling say could say, ok enough is enough.  Let's get this out.   If you look back at history Axls greatest work is when he had this type of relationship in the band.  Damn I hate to say it, but if the band didn't have this type of relationship.   Axl might still be working on November Rain to this very day!  Trying to get this one flute part sounding just right.....

Could be.  And if that's the case, its awesome.

But I think two things caught people a little off guard.

The first is that its hard to reconcile how one member of the band can say he expects lots of touring, and another guy to say they don't expect any.  Its not only more than a bit of a discrepancy, it feeds in to the already existing notion that these guys have no idea what is going on in their own band.  That they say stuff just to say it.  YOu never know who to believe.

The bit about still working on the material.  What exactly does that mean?  If in going on a decade plus, you don't have 12-14 songs to release, that's troubling.  

I think it would have gone over better if he alluded that they were done with that portion.  Because what the hell are you still working on at this point?

I thought a guy like yourself who likes to put himself on a pedestal of GN'R knowledge and understanding, would know better than to ask that.
Trying to force Axl into doing stuff. Yeah, that's a recipe for instant success.  ::)



Dj talked about that, last year (2014).

Using your Jump To Conclusions mat, is it possible something happened between then and now?
 

---

Here's an uncomfortable question for all those opposing the musical integrity comment: If you disagree with what Richard said and think Axl doesn't have any musical integrity, why are you trolling a GN'R fan site? This is the Internet. I'm sure you can find plenty of sites that share your personal opinion where you can post until the cows come home about what you don't like about Axl and GN'R. But coming to a GN'R fan site and question this. Get out of here! Seriously...




/jarmo

He talked about it 4 1/2 months ago...it wasn't like a full year had passed.  That's a short timeframe for the message to change so dramatically.  Why the message changed is what's really important.  So far, we know "something happened." 

Duh, mixing and mastering silly...don't you know how long that takes (correction: don't you know how long that takes in Guns n Roses)?

Not really. You could have some lose plans and then realize, it's not gonna work and you scrap those plans.




/jarmo

Not an answer.



Definite points for the 'jump to conclusions mat' reference.  Nice.

As for thinking something happened, I don't know I think that, personally.  I find it more likely DJ just threw out his usual bit of unverifiable sunshine that never pans out.  I remember even at the time people were rolling their eyes and saying the next thing DJ claimed that panned out would be news.

If anything Richard is more willing to be honest with us and not just throw out a best case scenario he has no idea will even pan out, as DJ seems to do rather often.



I think this is an extreme position shared by very, very few.  Some, yes, but not many.

Its not that we discount the integrity bit of all this.  But we do sort of roll our eyes when you claim it like its diplomatic immunity or some shit.  And once you invoke it, we should just stop talking.  World doesn't work that way.

We can accept the concerns about musical integrity, but not so much so that its 100% of the equation.  And even respecting the musical ingreity bit of it, there is still room for some good old fashioned "get on with it already" type sentiment.

Ginger, mixing can be a very tedious, long process ....longer than the actual recording. Mastering is a much shorter process.  : ok:

Depends.

I can often go from an expert on anything and everything that happens to a guy that doesn't know shit about shit, sometimes within the same post.

I'd explain it, but I don't hand out the grades.

But neither can be started if they are still working on 10 plus year old songs.

So however long it takes, we aren't even at the starter's gun yet.

Especially if the recordings are as complex as Chinese was.

A bit simpler with the standard two-guitar, bass, vocals and drums set-up.


Mastering as you said, usually done in a couple of weeks.

Well, Ive always thought DJ gets ahead of himself.  He's the newest to the band and just hasn't quit figured out how Axl works.  Plans could have very well been that they are focusing on album first, then touring.  DJ probably thinks that means album within a few months and then a bunch of touring....so he mentions they will be touring a bunch next year.  However, he doesn't fully understand just yet how Axl operates.  Focusing on album before touring, could take some time in Axls world.  So yeah, the plans could very well be to tour a bunch after a new album.  Problem is, DJ just doesn't understand how long that process could take.

In terms of what they are working on, I'm not going to speculate.  I don't fully understand what the process is when putting out an album.  I would think that they could have lots of songs to choose from, but it still takes some time to put them on an album.  I don't think we've ever been told they have a bunch of songs that are completely "done"??

Well, that's the question we don't have the answer to. "Where are they in the process?"

Hopefully we'll hear something soon.

The answer is right there! Do you want me to spell it out again?




I still stand by what I said earlier, I don't think anybody lied or mislead anyone.




So instead of giving Axl credit for doing things his way, even if it angers yourself, you're more inclined to focus on the fact that you think Richard only says nice things because he's paid to.
That's a spin if I ever saw one.

Has any of you actually had anything nice to say about Axl in this thread? Like, "Richard's right". Maybe there was. But then it just gets buried in all the negativity that some of you have such a natural way of swaying towards...




/jarmo

Except...not.  But I realize its a touchy question, so we'll move on.



But DJ doesn't have the best history with this stuff.  Claiming they worked on stuff, when they haven't.  Claiming they mix up the show each night, when they don't.

And so forth.



No one has said this.  You are mixing and matching separate conversation to set up a straw man to rail against.  Again.

Not interested.



That's why you're here, chief.  That's your end. 

We shouldn't have to do everything around here.

This integrity thing is BS. You want to try integrity  and work ethic try Mike Bloomberg. The guy built his own company from scratch. He did it his way. He was mayor of NYC and has donated money for charity. He is now back running the company again.

I'm usually at work by 7am even though I start at 8am.  I now see Mike in the elevator at 7am. The guy is a billionaire and doesn't have to be at work at that time. Yet, he is there even though he owns the company.  Talk about work ethic and integrity. I wish Axl had that same mentality.

Which part don't you understand? You think it's a good idea to try to force Axl to do something, I pointed out that doing that isn't exactly a recipe for success.



That's you wanting to find reasons to think that.
Even Richard said he had worked with Dj.
Yeah, he's right. They don't have a setlist they strictly follow. For certain shows, there'd be a setlist idea because of time constraints. Like "these songs will be about 90 minutes".
But other than that, they played what they wanted to play.






Then I apologize.
Just prove me wrong and say something nice!

Why do we always have to try to kick your ass to do so?




/jarmo

Glossing right over the fact that when I say stuff like this, you get all hot and bothered.  (Difficult?  How is he difficult?  Where is that coming from?, etc)

The original questions was not towards Axl, it was towards YOU.  Do YOU think its possible he could have integrity in spades, but still need a kick in the ass form time to time.  Do YOU think that is an impossible premise?

That's what has gone unanswered now.  Twice.



He says they switch up the show to keep it fresh for people coming multiple nights.  They don't.  There aren't too many other ways to take that.

I'd give the link to setlist.fm, but the last time I brought that up, you accused me of undermining your site or some such.

But, regardless, the proof is right there.  Thus, can't take everything DJ says at face value.  All the more so if its so easily (and publically) disproven.



I'm not as willing to make chicken salad out of chicken shit as some, I suppose.

When something good happens, I applaud it.  But I don't applaud something, just because it happened.

There's not a lot of good news in this here interview.  Its not a nightmare, by any stretch, but its not all that encouraging.

Why would DJ lie about possible touring? It's not as though this band has not toured a lot over the last 5 years. I'm sure plans were in the mix but got changed. Perhaps Bumble wanting to concentrate on his solo stuff for example?

The only slight down side is he sounded more positive in his last interview.

We can only be detectives and the evidence does give an indication of some studio activity. But who knows what barriers could be in the way. Label pressures, chief execs not having faith in the material, business leeches pushing the reunion agenda...and the only member of the band who deals with this shit is Axl.

Look at the debarcle of the release of Chinese...you think that will have left a harmonious working relationship.

We wait and hope.

Now I get up around whenever.  I used to get up on time.

Damn, we had the answer all along!

But don't you think if Ron is to blame, the band would waste all of about 2 seconds pinning him as the fall guy?  Ron certainly hasn't done himself any favors.  Actually, a statement that "we just lost our co-lead guitarist and thus our touring plans are somewhat up in the air as we figure out a way forward" sounds reasonable.

So far, we got "something happened" and don't force Axl to do anything he doesn't want to do.   

Yep.

Why do you think you have any emotional  effect on me? Man, you're in for a let down the day you realize the truth.

No, I don't think trying to force Axl into doing something he doesn't believe in is the way to go. Got it now? I thought it was obvious what I meant.





That's not what you said. You had to go look for something else now.  :hihi:
And they do switch it up. Prostitute, There Was A Time and so on... :)



Yeah, in case you missed it, those same setlists are available on this site, posted by someone who might've been at the shows...




It's not about good news.

Really? You can't give credit for Axl having musical integrity because in your mind it's wrong, since it means he won't release albums according to your liking?
It's too much to ask?

But on the other hand, the opposite is easy. Richard is nice because he's paid. Funny shit.


Maybe it'd do you good to occasionally stop the "free thinking" and think about what you got.




/jarmo

There is no 'canceled tour' announcement needed as nothing was officially announced.

Personally I think the Vegas residency was a good send off to the Chinese promotion. Axl sending out signed discs to people who helped promote the thing via a tour also seems like a full stop to a chapter to me. But that is pure guess work.

Tommy might have wanted to focus on replacements, DJ sixx am, Richard Dead Dasies..and Axl on reflection decided let's take stock and regroup with a new product to tour!

Or not...but we will see.

It was.  Shame it was never applicable any of the three times you tried to run it up the flagpole.

But, three strikes and you're out.  I'm through begging for you to step up and grow a pair on this one.

Moving on...



Really?  Because this was the original post :


What is that...in code?

Let me give you code key.  Its English.  "A" corresponds to "a", "b" corresponds to "b", and so forth.

Its definitely one your beginner codes.



Axl's musical integrity is not a topic I find all that compelling.  Certainly not the level of some of the peeps here.

But, yes, I think some of his more...vocal supporters, use it as a crutch.  And then make with the phony outrage (like you are doing right now) in hopes of shutting the conversation down.

But, if it makes you feel better, I'm pro-integrity.  I'm also pro-activity.  I think you can be both.

So glad to see you back Rudy :)

It isnt Bullshit at all, it may not fit the preconceived picture you have painted in your little head, but it is far from bullshit.

It seems every time there is a hiatus people panic. Probably due to the early naughties when years would pass but it's been very active recently. You all seem to forget the cool stuff.
- 3d films -residences -duff playing full gigs including chinese songs -special guests at tours -songs been brought back -Axl winning awards -Axl on TV shows & commercials

A lot of this was only last year!

What I would call the big 3 released albums in 2008- metallica, AC/DC and GN'R.
AC/DC have only just got something out, Metallica are working on it..

Stupendous, now explain how important you are again, as well as your super-fantastic amateur ideas on marketing, managing, producing, distribution etc. Ad nauseum.

Then tell us how you know so very much about someone because you buy and pirate their music. :hihi:

It has.  

And I think just about all of us expected something of a down year on the activity front.  In hopes of a payoff in the near future.

We wouldn't have even expected touring in 2015, were it not for DJ's claim.  That we are now supposed to ignore, apparently.

In a PM just to you, or, share it with the class?

I don't know how to explain it to you. I thought it was obvious that my answer to your question is "No" followed by the reason why I think that.
This seems to be too much for you to comprehend.



My mistake, sorry.
I'll disregard your stupid nonsense if that's ok with you.

Anyway, they do mix it up. Not to your liking, so it'd look better on Setlist.fm for you to ogle at. But they do.  :)




Are you afraid somebody will make fun of you if you say something nice about Axl once?




Yeah, and some act like the world ended.  Lots of this :crying:





No, you're free to think freely and wait for the tour.
I mean, maybe you'll find somebody to go with this time instead of having to rely on Youtube and Setlist.fm for your concert experiences. :)




/jarmo

I'm quite sure your look-at-me-ism would necessitate posting it for everyone.

I'm not a fan of your fantasy, negativity, bullshit, and incessant whining  so don't send me anything.

I don't remember having much hope of a 2008 release in Febuary of that year! And don't remember any members giving indication it was definitely coming.

I hate it when we fight.

You are correct.
Deja vu....



/jarmo

So...expect an album around Thanksgiving?

Bold claim.

I don't recall making any claims.

Other than not being the one to start moaning in February about how 2015 isn't the year.

 :D


Besides, shouldn't everybody be asking you when the album is coming? You seem to know how Axl thinks, how business works and everything else relating to GN'R.... ;)



/jarmo

Some good points here about how it is still early in the year and we have already kind of gone into panic mode. I'll admit, that was my first reaction when I didn't see any clear positive indications about a near future release in the interview. I guess it just goes to show how badly we want this thing. The next album has become the new holy grail for GNR fans, just like CD was before its release. Axl is saving up the suspense again. He likes driving us crazy, he does his job better when we're going ape shit. Maybe he draws inspiration from it or something.  ;)

http://classicrock.teamrock.com/news/2015-02-16/fortus-axl-is-only-in-it-for-the-music

I didn't know Fortus said new music within a year.  Looks like things have been delayed once again.  With my best guess, I'd have to say Axl is tinkering and taking his time once again. 

hello everyone im a longtime visitor of this site and always enjoy reading the discussions that go on in here. I figured id add my 2 cents on this based on the interview Richard gave and his talking about no touring anytime soon could be because bumblefoot is in fact out and they don't have someone to replace him as I think axl wants the 3 guitar group and if they are going to bring someone in they have to learn the material old and potentially new.

Could very well be the case!

You have made the best points yet that I have had the chance to read.  And I agree with everything you stated above

I would like to add to it, if that's ok.   

So all I have been told, read, pm'D is that gnr is on a break.  So TheBaconman why are you getting so upset over the lack of info from the management or lack of interviews from band members     Etc...

Ok

So DJ says they plan on touring....

Now not so much....

Everyone here says plans may have changed.....

But durring that whole time, I was told relax gnr is on a break and not doing anything!

But ya plans changed durring this break, whatever.   

Ok hear is what TheBaconman thinks, and please tell me if I am wrong even if I am a nice guy.  I can take it

Last year right at the end of the Vegas shows Axl tells the crew, I am planning on touring again this year boys   It has been great.

DJ tells the media, gnr plans on touring in 2015...... 

What plans where made?   

Where any Veneus promotors markets ticket agents booked?  Nope

So what where these plans?

Mb the plans where just good intentions, but not plans!!!   And that's what I think

But that it no excuse for band members to come out and say they are going to tour lots.....   I am the one that has to book my time off.....   Just be straight.   If you don't know.   Keep it quiet.

Musical integrity seems to be based on, how you define it. Fortus seems to be basing it on Axl's unwillingness to reunite (for unprecedented amounts of cash). That argument is fair enough in itself but if all we get as a replacement is endless greatest hits Vegas cashgrabs, Axl may as well reunite. If all you are is a 'nostalgia act', you may as well deliver that nostalgia with the bona fide originals. Ask yourself one thing. What has been the outcome of this, 'heroic stance' against the reunion? One sole album and then turning Guns N' Roses into an 'oldies act'? It is a fairly depressing one in my opinion. If Axl saw a reunion as antithetical to delivering up some sort of musical vision, i.e studio albums, then now I agree - now I see where Richard is coming from. The original argument with Slash was, partly, a musical one after all (Slash: rootsy rock; Axl: something more progressive).

There is a positive in that interview: no touring. No touring! Get the champagne out! If there is some indication that this no touring is being played against, allied with, some sort of studio work, this is actually exactly where Axl needs to be right now. This is what the guy needs to be doing: not playing live and making some effort to release studio work. I would be quite happy to not see the band play live for a long time if there is some concerted attempt at delivering studio work to the masses.

I get what you're saying but look at it another way...

Say you are remodelling your kitchen, you not other people, do you do everything to make it "just so?"  Do you knock it together as quick as you can, most of it is okay but there are little things, a paint run, something not sanded smooth properly, a strip of wallpaper that wasn't quite the right shape and you've added a patch to cover the area. You would also know of the imperfections and see them time and time again.

Lots of people would do the latter, they'd want the former, but its good enough. They know that most of their contacts will not crucify them for their effort, saying it was a good effort. Axl doesn't have that luxury. Everything he does is under the microscope, dissected, analysed and that scrutiny is what will ultimately make or break him.

 GnR isn't throw-away pop band. People who want to be in  relationship  to Axl, the band and its future are tied into this. Since when in the CD era, did the band play a lousy show? The only occasion I know of is Ireland when he never moved after stuff was thrown at the band. Axl AFAIC has always tried to put on a stellar show, 2.5+ hours of live RnR. An Album is always gonna sound the same, time and time again, once released  it is what it is....And remember Axl has been burned by this before with CD.

The neigh sayers have bashed and judged Axl on CD and don't give a stuff about who got what wrong, its Axl's album and he has to live with that.

So going back to the kitchen scenario,  as a non building trades person, the expectation levels I set myself in this field, are much lower than I set myself professionally, doesn't this apply to your lives.  ;)

Mortis, if this setlist constitutes a nostalgia act, count me 100% in!  : ok: Get the fuck out of here!

June 6th, 2014 - Las Vegas, NV @ The Joint at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino 
Setlist: Chinese Democracy, Welcome To The Jungle, It's So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Estranged, There Was A Time, Better, Rocket Queen, Richard Fortus Guitar Solo/Live And Let Die, This I Love, Used To Love Her, Holidays In The Sun (Tommy Stinson), Band Introductions, Dizzy Reed Piano Solo/Catcher In The Rye, You Could Be Mine, Dj Ashba Guitar Solo (Bella Vita)/Sweet Child O' Mine, Jam (Babe I'm Gonna Leave You)/Layla (Instrumental)/November Rain, Bumblefoot Solo (Abnormal), Don't Cry, Marseilles, Prostitute, Riff Raff, Yesterdays, Civil War, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Jam/Nightrain
Encore: You Can't Always Get What You Want (partial - vocals by Tommy Stinson)/Patience, The Seeker, Jam/Paradise City

my favorite setlist post 1998 (maybe ever).....however, they had tons of shows where a lot of Chinese was played so overall your complaints on touring and being an oldies act rings very hollow.

Now, that being said, enough is enough. Commit to the studio until an album is 100% in the can, figure out who is actually in the band, and then start back up again.  :peace:
 

Wanting quality work done you can be proud of is obviously laudable.

Of course, if it took you 7-8 years to finish a kitchen, no one would ever hire you.

Once again, that's how you want to see it. The reunion was another example of Axl not being interested in the easy money. It not happening is the result of his integrity. Read it again:

I've never met anybody that has so much genuine musical integrity. He won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music. And he won't defend himself in the press, because he doesn't think it matters; it's just about the music ? that's all he cares about. I've worked with a lot of people in this business, and I've never seen, or met, anybody that was motivated purely by that ? by the desire to make art. And you can say whatever you want about it, 'cause he's not gonna defend himself, but he is that, and that's for sure. Otherwise, there would have been a reunion, because the offers for money have been outrageous. But he would never do a reunion unless it was for something besides money.



Plans for a tour are made long before venues are announced.




/jarmo

Cough,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reht9tVgysM

So when I prove you wrong, that's all you can produce?

You should read John Lydon's recently published autobiography. It'll paint a picture of how everything can be connected.

Still doesn't prove Richard to be wrong. I do love the fact that the people of the Internet who are always looking for something wrong with anything GN'R relayed are questioning a professional musician's opinion on musical integrity. Yeah, I guess he'd have no idea and you do. Rrrrright.


To repeat myself once again, if you have such issues with what Richard said, why are you here? I don't think any fans would question that, they know the deal. But obviously those who are "free thinkers" will object to anything good said about Axl. Because they are free to think! They know!



/jarmo

Oh, relax.

He's just pointing out the humor in having a guy wax poetic how its all about the music and not the money when the guy he's talking about is in a freakin' beer commercial not even one year prior.

I don't even a give a shit, personally.  But you have to see the humor in it.

Axl is a musician... he needs to sell himself and his shows and his ART (because that's a popular term now) to earn money... even if that means playing at a wedding or doing a beer commercial..

God... I hate these stupid arguments....

YES .. there are CERTAIN things he will NOT do for an easier buck... like a REUNION with Slash (to this point) or rush songs he feels (for whatever reason) are not ready.

You want to commend him for that? Great... I have no issue with it.. It IS commendable... but please stop he with he won't do ANYTHING for money (see above)... because that is not true and perfectly FINE !



Back to the interview...Richard really comes off classy and seems to "get it" for the fans here who do "complain" or get "frustrated".

I am not knocking anybody or looking to fight with anybody... and before somebody tells me for the 97th time that things change... I still haven't heard one plausible reason why two different band members have such different accounts for their own plans for the year.

And honestly... I trust Richard more than I do DJ... track records... and all that.

I'd appreciate it in the future that DJ just keeps quiet in regards to GNR, because he obviously either doesn't know or is just not being honest with himself and us. One or the other.

At the very least I was excited for the prospect of tour dates this year.. and for me.. with Duff. Because without tour dates... the GNR discussion goes right in to the toilet every time.


Edit: I also don't buy Ron's departure changes anything... because it was quite obvious during their run last year before DJ's big tour idea that Ron would not be around.

Ha-ha-ha. It would be funnier if he had actually managed to have a proper response. But no.

The jokes always seem to appear at strange times. When you got no way of responding. That's when the jokes start flying, along with the occasional insults. Funny how that works.




Just a little reflection on this, certain fans look more and more like the definition of trolls. Any way you look at it, some come to a fan site they know is aimed at fans of GN'R to post their so called free opinions they know damn well are pretty much the opposite of the fans here. If that offends you, too bad. Those are the cards I've been dealt by these so called hardcore fans. Just using my right to think freely here!






I don't see that as evidence of the contradictory. Read the quote again.
If you think he did that commercial only to make himself more money, I think you might be wrong.

Nobody seems to have figured it out, or they "forgot to remember" it. But who do you think would pay for recording sessions? Where does the money to record and film a show come from? Universal Music? I don't think so.




/jarmo

I didn't say he did a commercial only to make money...ever.

If I wasn't clear.. then my bad.

But I think it is part of the big picture of being a musician/celebrity/ performer.

I realize that I should say I think in front of every post here going forward.

Come again?

There is a disconnect between Fortus's portrayal of Axl, and the protract of Axl we receive, whether you like it or not:

Fortus said, ''he won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music.'' A Budweiser advert would seem to contradict this, in most people's estimation. I mean people are the first to pounce on Slash when he does things like this. Why should it be different with Axl?


- This Notes For You by Neil Young

Returning to the above quote by Fortus, we have already established that he meant that Axl has resisted the urge to reunite because of the 'music'. What 'music'? To have musical integrity, would, presumably entail releasing music in the first place. Or does he mean one album in twenty years, that Axl has zealously guarded the integrity of, that one album, Chinese Democracy? Axl has spent the last few years criss-crossing between South America and Vegas, playing very samey setlists, with seemingly no rhyme nor reason. I am sure cash was made though. How does the last few years inherently possess more 'integrity' than reuniting for a cash bonanza? New gnr already market themselves through old band tropes, case in point the Appetite for Democracy cover. Ashba clearly adopts a Slash persona, as distinct from 'weirdos' like Bucket and Robin. The new-gnr/Chinese iconography has all been jettisoned, replaced with 1987 vintage, strippers and all. Why does all this possess more integrity than reuniting?

The proposition that Axl?s a sell out because he did a beer commercial in Brazil in laughable.  Come on!  Celebrities get paid to do appearances, endorse products, be in commercials, etc.  Given his name recognition, he easily could have done this over the years to make some extra cash and keep his name out there.  But, IMO, he?s very selective about when, and to what extent, he does things in public.  Maybe he?s conscious of not over-exposing himself, or maybe he just doesn?t like doing it.  This may be a place where the integrity label makes sense.

Obviously, there are degrees to which one may ?sell out.?  Doing a commercial in Brazil doesn?t even scratch the surface.  I mean, it?s not as if he was in a trailer for a Sponge Bob Square Pants movie?

Yeah the whole thing is stupid... I'd like to see Axl on tv as much as possible ... or at least more than I have over the years.

I also get a kick out of seeing Slash or whoever involved in other places as well...

Only in GNR la la land do people get offended or disturbed by it.

No worries JAEBALL.

Just painting a picture.
I've yet to see some actually agree with Richard instead of pointing out how he's not right.

Does having musical integrity mean one would never license a song to a commercial or appear in one? No.
Does it mean you can't play the songs a majority of the crowd at your shows love and enjoy singing along to? No.
Does it mean there's a risk that your beliefs and morals will produce decisions that will piss off some of the people of the Internet? Quite possibly.




You're assuming Axl did that commercial for money alone. How do you know? :) Like I said, who pays for the recording?

Did you buy Neil's new music player that he's selling? Using his name to sell a product. Oh no!





A. Musical integrity in a nut shell, you don't release anything until YOU think it's ready. Very simple. Why this escapes you, I have no idea.
B. Why are you here?




/jarmo

And how do you define "proper response" here?  He drops to his knees and begs for your forgiveness?

He made a joke.  Would it kill you to let down your guard from time to time and have a laugh?  What's the worst that could happen?  You look human for a sec?

Life's too short for all this petty squabbling, man.

Perhaps they don't agree with his spin on the matter.  Is that not allowed?

Is "right on!" the only acceptable response here?

This presumes everyone believes that to be the whole story.  Several of us do not.

Its a huge part, sure.  But not the beginning and end of it.  Most of the pushback you see is in response to the theory this is ALL 100% musical integrity and nothing else.  That doesn't ring true to all of us.

I never made the accusation that ''Axl?s a sell out because he did a beer commercial in Brazil''. Straw Man. It was Fortus who said,  ''he won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music''; I merely - this is my argument - have difficulty reconciling that statement by Richard Fortus with the Axl who appeared in a Budweiser commercial. If you want my own opinion on the commercial, I cringed at the time but I saw it as relatively trivial and am perfectly aware of the commercialism of the music industry.
 
Whether you like it or not, the commercial contradicts what Fortus says.

I honestly do not see much different between Sponge Bob Square Pants and Bud. The former at least has irony and is a fun 'end product'. The latter at least has the merits of being a product (loosely) connected with the rock n' roll genre. Neither are particularly appealing usages of the artist's time.

A/ I am sorry but I connect musical integrity more with, financial whoring - although this can relate to what you say in the sense that commercial factors might imperil your music (case in point Paul Stanley wanting to re-write Jungle).

B/ Because it is a Guns N' Roses forum - presumably the same reason everyone is here! Stupid question.

This is garbage. There are multiple example of a fan backlash when faced with, examples of selling out.

Something along the lines of what he managed later. Too much to ask?




Why is everything always a spin to you? That's what I'm interested in hearing.
Why is it that anything even remotely positive is a spin? Why can't that be his free thinking opinion and/or a fact?
Ever thought that this applies to yourself as well? Most of the things you say are negative spins? Or doesn't it apply to you?





And you don't believe that because you know, or you think you know?




So according to you, whoring out is one commercial in I don't know how many years. What do you call anyone who does more than that?

Also, where do you think the money spent on recording and filming come from?





Does it seem to you like Axl lacks musical integrity and will do anything for money?




No, it's not stupid. Yes, it's a GN'R fan site. Have you noticed that your opinions are more in line with those people who aren't actual GN'R fans, than those who are?
Those people share your negative spin on everything. Yet, they're not on fan sites.... Interesting isn't it?



/jarmo

Jarmo, I will spell it out for you because you seem to have problems with language.

This,

'he won't whore himself out, he won't do anything for business or money; it's just about the music.''

Contradicts, this

The Budweiser commercial.


That is my ultimate point. I am not making some overriding statement on where, Axl sits, on the 'league table of selling out'. I am merely stating that Fortus's depiction of Axl does not fit the public persona.

No, I get what you are saying. Yet, why can't you answer the questions. Where do you think money spend on the art itself, recording music, filming shows and so on comes from?

He won't do anything for money. It means, the money is not the motivation! The music is!


If you want to buy a new bicycle, you either save your weekly allowances or get a job after school. The money's not the motivation, getting the bicycle is the motivation.



/jarmo

This is a good analogy.

There is no evidence that Axl did the advert to get money to plunge into a (speculative) record. This is, will o' the wisp Jarmo-thinking, desperately clutching at straws to exonerate Axl and protect him from slights, negativity and mistakes. For all you know he may have spent the money on a new car or a holiday! He might have got his Bud money and chucked it on a losing horse or blew the lot on cocaine. He might have bought a Rolling Stones ticket (that would have used a lot of it up!)

But to answer your question, the record company finances albums (and becomes the default owner of the mechanical copy).

Does it seem like this is always the case?


Your spin is the usual. Lots of assumptions.
An artist makes money and uses it to invest in his art and band. That concept is alien to you for some reason. The reason I assume is, it's Axl and GN'R, so it can't be true. Doesn't fit your view of how things are.

There is no evidence of your assumption being right either. Yet you make claims that it's possible!


Also, I don't think Axl needs to buy concert tickets....  ;)

Here's a photo from Del's Facebook, taken back in Australia in 2013:
(https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/578404_10151507144481907_1690958613_n.jpg?oh=4614954742123cf43b26733ea908607c&oe=55515EEF)



/jarmo

Of course it applies to me, absolutely.  It applies to all of us, about everything.

There is some level of spin in everything we say.  How else do you explain differing opinions on the same bit of information?

Handiest example is obviously politics.  Both sides are given the same raw data and, odds are, both have wildly divergent takes on it.  It will tend to conform with how they see things.  There is no "right" or "wrong".  You both put your best argument forward, and the people decide.  

And may the most persuasive man win.



I make a logical deduction, as I do anything.

Using a simple pie chart to explain these delays, I would have 3 portions :

- musical integrity
- self doubt
- "not wanting to deal with the bullshit of releasing an album" (this one is something of a catch all category)

Musical integrity occupies 100% of the pie chart at the beginning.  So if you tell me that you aren't going to crank something out in 6 months just to get it out there, that makes sense to me.

But as more time passes, and in the case of this band that is years upon years, the musical integrity portion of the graph shrinks and gives ground to the other two categories.  Musical integrity is still present, but its no longer 100% of the equation.  Those other 2 areas become very real factors the longer this drags on.

Seems to me, some have a problem conceding that to be the case.  They have either philosophical or (more likely, in my opinion) emotional reasons to not want to concede there might be any doubt or unwillingness on Axl's part to get on with it.  It bothers them to say those things out loud.

That is the disconnect here, as I see it.

No, clearly not.  There has never nor will ever be a reunion, which is huge coin.

However, what was keeping the name?  Was that about money or art?  It was about money.  And it was the right move.  The other 2 are dodos that kick themselves every day.

So its not as clear cut as you might suggest.

The traditional 'default', method is, the record company signs a contract agreeing to finance x amount, for x amount of albums. There are of course exceptions, artists channeling money into their own recordings (usually after a disagreement with the company) - especially with the rise of internet indie artists. You did ask and I can only give the default, prevalent method, of album financing! I can not give some hyper speculative method alien to everybody but W. Axl Rose, ''the Budweiser method''. We do not unfortunately have evidence of Axl's contractual relationship with interscope.

I saw the Alchemy Tour myself. Probably my favourite concert of all time was on that tour.

And yet you never call your opinions spins.



So considering the first you have some evidence of, what about the rest?




I think it bothers some when you make claims like that without having any real information on it. Like you would know, for some unknown reason. There's very little evidence to prove that you do actually know, anything, about it.

It's the same with any know-it-all person.





Simplified spin. :D
It's about keeping what is his. Is there money involved in this business? Yes. Is that the reason why he wanted the name? Not necessarily. It was his name to begin with. It's common sense that you'd want something that's yours.




Funny you mention disagreement with the record company. Does it sound like something that ever happened with Axl, GN'R and their record company?
You guys are so clever with putting pieces of a puzzle together when there's a negative spin to be had. Yet, the other way around, and suddenly there's zero interest.




/jarmo

"I don't think there's gonna be any touring soon. We have been working on material. And that sort of starts and stops, but we're still plugging away at it."

I hope the definition of "soon" means "pre-fall or winter" and that we might still get a tour or some show late this year.  Richard was talking about summer tours when this was all discussed.  We all knew that spring/summer was more or less off the table for GNR by looking at all of the side project activity.  This hiatus of sorts was also foretold when that "Axl gave the notice to crew of the upcoming break" stories were running at the end of Vegas.

I just hope we get some shows late 2015.

Otherwise great interview.....nice to hear Richard's thoughts on all of this stuff.

If you want to, go ahead.  I'm not going to get all offended. 

Nor pretend that I don't understand the concept.



I think there is a tremendous of self doubt present, along with putting off dealing with the label because of past problems.

I do not feel either of these have to do with musical integrity, however.  I find that an intellectually dishonest argument.



None of this is really a counterpoint, I'm afraid.

If anything, its just proof of what I suggested.  You have emotional reasons to not want to have to concede these things might be the case.  As evidenced both in your total lack of addressing the point, and your overall haughty and put upon tone.  A nerve has been touched, it would appear.

I don't have that nerve to touch.  I'm a fan of a guy who makes music I like.  I'm not here claiming to be his surrogate, parent, or all around defender.  My resoning is unencumbered by emotion.



I see it as more common sense the name was worth a mint, and would allow him opportunities he would not have had if he tried calling this whole misadventure "The Axl Rose Band".

It was a business move, and a smart one.  Its OK to say it like that without having to get into the other stuff.

Well I do know that the 2006 tour aided the financing of Chinese Democracy in some form, following the withdrawal of the funding. But there is a long jump from that scenario, to some stray Budweiser advert financially underpinning CD2!! You really have to throw your self into jarmo-rationality to grasp at that one.

Maybe Axl should have got Budweiser to sponsor the album: it might have sold more copies.

I think everybody here knows the negative spin you put on everything. But nobody uses that term. It's not necessary.




You keep repeating that, but where is the evidence?
Is this something you know for a fact from something somebody said, or is this yet another case of you thinking you know because you like the feeling of it?



Nice spin. If you make this kind of negative claims, it's not up to me to prove they are wrong. It's for you to prove they are right.
Yet, in all these posts, you've managed to produce nothing in that regard.

You still seem to live under the fantasy that you somehow have some kind of emotional effect on me. You're like a clown. That's pretty much the extent of it. Sorry. :)

So, start by backing up your claims with some evidence instead of coming across like a person who has no clue but likes to throw shit on a wall to see if anything sticks.  : ok:






You once again put a spin on it.
Which part of owning the name he had before others joined makes no sense to you?

I can't believe you brought this up again. Congrats!




So you know that much. Yet you can't even use your free thinking abilities to extend that thinking to something more present. Why not?
What's stopping you? Your negativity? Or is it because I introduced the thought so it can't be possible?





/jarmo

David Fricke from Rolling Stone always got Axl and Chinese Democracy.... :hihi:

And at the end of the album, on the bluntly titled "Prostitute," Rose veers from an almost conversational tenor, over a ticking-bomb shuffle, to five-guitar barrage, orchestral lightning and righteous howl: "Ask yourself/Why I would choose/To prostitute myself/To live with fortune and shame." To him, the long march to Chinese Democracy was not about paranoia and control. It was about saying "I won't" when everyone else insisted, "You must." You may debate whether any rock record is worth that extreme self-indulgence. Actually, the most rock & roll thing about Chinese Democracy is he doesn't care if you do.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/chinese-democracy-20081127

Don't claim to have any evidence.  Never did, actually.

Which is why my posts on the topic are peppered with phrases like "I think"..."it seems to me"..."in my opinion".

Its just my read.  If you don't share it, you don't share it.  Ain't no bad day.



Me, personally?  No.

But I think certain topics and certain views absolutely affect you emotionally.  There are any number of things you think should not be discussed or are just cases of mean boys being mean.

When they come up, you tend to gloss right over them and start calling the person a clown or telling them to get off a pile of dung.  Or your latest goto, "why are you here?"

Don't ever play poker, Jarmo.  Certainly not for any real stakes.



Hey, you asked.  I answered.

And you're not prepared to share any of what causes you to come to these conclusions? I'm guessing you don't own the mat....





No, they don't affect me emotionally. I just laugh at some of the self important theories some come up with. Everybody wants to be special....

I just have a low tolerance for bullshit from people who go to a fan site knowing damn well their views are the opposite of the people posting there.




This obviously bothers you to no end.  :hihi:
Free thinking! Coming to conclusions. Cards I've been dealt. Track record. :D




I asked, you didn't answer.
What part of legally owning a name that's yours doesn't make sense to you?



/jarmo

Sure, but you aren't going to like them and its just going to lead to more fighting.

I'm pretty sure we both know you won't consider what I have to say for even one second and you will just get all bent out of shape over it.

What's the point? 

I mean, I'll do it if you want, but.....I mean, aren't you guy that's being going on and on about posting things that aren't going to be well received here?

Are you helping on that front by directly asking for such things? 

So I missed a few pages of this topic and woke up with a major headache on my couch. 

But from what I read.   Is this right

Axl pays for his current recordings buy doing beer commercial in Brazil?

You know when it's time to release your music?

When you are forced to pay for it, by filming beer commercials in Brazil!

And reading your posts this morning...looks like you had one hell of a night, soldier.

I just gave this headache 10 bux to leave and take a cab out of here.   All is good now.  Ha!

I find it equal parts juvenile and cowardly, if you really want to know the truth.

So yeah, it bothers me in the eye rolling sense, but not in a way that inspires any sort of anger.

Blah blah blah. The endgame, to use another one of your cliche terms, is that you know next to nothing about how Axl thinks and what motivates him. There's no shame in admitting it. Just because you want to live in the fantasy that you know things, doesn't mean it's true. And that's fine.
Maybe it's a bit creepy to think that people out there on the Internet think they know a person because they're fans.




I think your whole act could be described with those two words....

You don't like being questioned? Deal me some other cards! :D



At least you make me laugh! :D Some eye rolling, but mostly laughs.



/jarmo

That whole last post was dynamite, Jarmo.  Really added to the discourse.

Checked into this particular thread and found our daily argument between Jarmo and DX. Nothing ever changes on this site.

You use this "where is the evidence to back up your opinion" approach often.  But where is yours?  Because you are there, we are supposed to take your opinions as irrefutable facts, such that you don't need to provide a basis for them?  For example:  the name (Guns n Roses) was Axl's to begin with.  Where's your proof for that?  We're just supposed to believe that?  

Also, regarding the self-doubt opinion, Chinese Whispers is replete with interviews from former band members, managers, people that were there, who commented on Axl's fear on completing/releasing this material.  I don't think it's off base to come to that conclusion.  Are we not supposed to believe those (first-hand) accounts, and instead believe your (second hand accounts)? I'm not sure exactly when you started traveling with the band, but I don't think it was when CD was being created in the late 90's/early 00's.

Hey, I resent that.

We take days off.

All true.  And just on a baser level, what is the "evidence" of an opinion?

I had already thought Axl was working on a healthy bit of self doubt here.  How could he not be?

But then when you read that one of the producers (I forget which) told him he had *maybe* three good songs in his batch, and he was crushed...it made sense to me.

Probably because there is no more evidence that Axl used the Budweiser money to fund his music, than there is, that he, say, lost the money betting on the horses. There was evidence that the 2006 tour was connected with funding for Chinese Democracy, evidence provided by Merck I believe.

I'm guessing all those hacks had ulterior motives and can't be trusted...

Ginger King...

the name Guns N Roses did come from Axl and Izzy working with Tracci... I believe... So while yes Jarmo does sometimes say things without "proof"... I don't think that was a good example.

So while Axl and Izzy didn't alone create the GNR legacy without Slash Duff and Steven... the name did originate prior to them forming the group that changed history.

Well, I didn't come here for attention..... :)




Axl's own words (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=55296.msg1146678#msg1146678). I choose to believe him over any of you on the Internet. Sorry!




You're free to believe anything you want.
Doesn't mean I have to agree.

But it's ironic how something like that it's easy for some of you to believe, but not regarding where the money to pay recordings might come from.




So, to use your friend's term, track record. You have this history that you believe in, but you have a reason to believe Axl changed his way of operating all of a sudden?
Do you have evidence that Universal Music/Interscope has invested their money in this project since the 2000s? Why do you believe they are that involved all of a sudden? I'm curious. Is it just "because that's how record companies operate"?



/jarmo

All true, JAEBALL.

But, let's be real here.  Axl kept the name because  :

- it was near and dear to his heart having though it up as a lad
- its one of the most recognizable brands in rock and worth a ton of loot

I would say the overriding reason was the second one.  Wouldn't you?

I'd say it was a combination... Im sure he feels the name is indeed "his"...

The financial benefit surely played a part as well.

But that's my point.  I believe Jarmo is saying that Axl, and Axl alone, came up with the name Guns n Roses, and therefore it was only logical (and right) that he keep the name.  I think there were more people involved in its creation.

I have found that Jarmo (along with many others, to be fair) take umbrage when you try and suggest he did so for business reasons.

They much prefer the version where he kept the name because he came up with it, and darn it, him keeping it was just the right thing to do.

A lot of my phrases and expressions sure seem to find their way into many of your posts.  Its very flattering.



Hell no.

They cut him off in...04?  It was around there.

He's been on his own dime for years now.  And his own pace.

True, Tracii and Axl basically stuck their names together. But legally, to say that it was 'his to begin with' so 'he should have it' is incorrect since Axl had to subsequently legally obtain the name when he modified the partnership agreement with Slash and Duff sometime during the Illusion tour. He would not have to do that if it simply, was automatically his to begin with. Presumably there was no prior legal writ when Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven signed as 'Guns N' Roses' in 1986, so, theoretical, ownership could have been disputed between them until the amendment of that partnership agreement in, either 1992 or 1993. Even Adler had as valid claim as anyone until he got the booted out of the band.


I do not follow.


Tracii Guns. You do not have 'Roses' without the 'Guns' after all! If legal ownership was decided by mere, invention, Tracii would have at least as good a-claim as Axl has.

If you actually answered simple questions, I might take your responses seriously. Gotta give credit though, you got quite the talent for saying one thing and doing the opposite. Mr "I never avoid questions". :D

I asked you: What part of legally owning a name that's yours doesn't make sense to you?
Instead of a clear answer, you dance around it and talk about how it's worth money so it must be the motivation for getting the rights to a name. A name that was morally yours even before it was made legally yours.



Nope. I'm not making that statement, unlike those of you who make claims that Axl is motivated by money.

I made the point that he was there since day one. Those other guys joined later, they weren't there when the name was first used. If you think Izzy or Tracii Guns deserves the name, fine. I disagree!



Amazing!
Thank you.



Ok, morally it was his to begin with. Happy now?



What makes you think something, regarding who pays for GN'R's recordings or filming of the shows, changed between say 2006 and now?
You think that in 2006, the tour was used for that because you read it somewhere. Now, because you didn't read it anywhere, you're assuming that can't be true anymore... Why?



/jarmo

This is the best way to actually look at the whole name thing...

Who cares who had what prior to the old band starting...  It doesn't mean anything

It's like telling the divorce judge you had something prior to marriage and then the judge saying, sorry pal you were married, give half

Some of the songs in gnr where written prior to gnr, yet you never hear anyone say anything when Axl sings them still to this day.   Some he never even wrote....   So if people are going to use the argument, Axl had the name before the other guys so it's his, well he can't then use some songs that were not his etc....

Like I said that's a stupid argument

What is true is that the name is Axls because the rest of the band was stupid enough to sign off on it for what ever reason.  They didn't even get paid to sign over the name.  They just did it.  So it's his...

Exactly.

He laughs all the way to the bank, and the other two were complete fools.

Morally? Strange usage of words.


It is a rather moot point. Firstly, we have no idea of the contractual relationship between Interscope and Axl; presumably, a large segment of interscope's funding for the first installment was also spent on the second (and possibly the third) album since we are told Axl has all of this material in the can, that 'only needs sorting'. Thirdly, I have just in fact brought up my third point. We are told much was recorded prior to 2008 which therefore does not require further work. Fourthly, I have my own personal doubts (and I freely admit, this is just my own opinion) about his seriousness in releasing new material. I do know he lives an expensive lifestyle and has a gigantic entourage of hirelings. I know this, but I have no evidence that he has been active in the studio much. Budweiser Ad? Do you want me to honestly hedge my bets that Bud's money went on new vocals for Oklahoma?

Maybe you never heard of it?

Five guys starts a band named X. Three guys leave, three other guys join from band Y. They become successful.
Who's name is X? Many would make the point that whoever came up with it has rights to it. Makes sense.




All this free thinking just to assume Axl doesn't pay for anything so you can go on and on about a commercial? Wow. :D

But you still didn't explain what exactly you think has changed. If he paid for sessions in 2006, as you think. You don't think he'd do the same in 2014? It's 100% impossible? No doubts? Is that your final answer?

It just seems like you're too stubborn to admit the possibility because then you "lose" your right to whine! :P



/jarmo

Well like you have said

I can be put into the group that thinks Axl had no financial basis for getting the name.  I do believe Axl when he talks he or anyone else new about brands back then and all that jazz

But damn it sure paid off for him in the end.  He has made millions just off the name alone

Of all the name fights ... this rings the loudest... If it was truly Axl's name... he wouldn't have had to legally obtain it from Slash and Duff to begin with...

Slash and Duff and Izzy all have just as much claim to the GNR name imo.. without the 4 of them growing and building it... there really is no name to fight for... saying Slash and Duff came in after the GNR name really is flabbergasting to me... ha.. no offense to anybody... but come on, you want to say technically this...technically that... OK

At the time... they were foolish enough to let Axl grab it , I'm sure one day their manager or accountant or whatever looked at the two of them with complete disgust!
 

Guy it has to really eat at is Duff.

Now that he's sobered up and gotten into the business world...he has to just be sick about it.

Bacon... preach on brotha haha

If there is another Vegas residency.. We must do shots together.

I don't know why we are on the GNR name today... I guess all Jarmo/Mortis/DX triple threat matches lead towards it  :)

Yeah... but what would Duff do with the GNR name without Axl anyway? Same for Slash... as great as they are... they both know they couldn't be GNR without Axl anyway.

Axl... he doesn't see it the same way obviously ha.. It's GNR with or without them.

First of all, I am long on record that if they had the name, "Velvet Revolver" is called Guns N' Roses.

Never, ever, EVER bought into the "oh, they'd never do that" routine.  Bullshit.  They never could, legally.  Doesn't mean they would not have if they could.

But if they still had right to the name, if nothing else, it prevents what Axl is doing with it these past 15 years.  Or not done with it, perhaps more accurately.

Since virtually the entire discography, image and commercial success of Guns N' Roses, up to the signing of the partnership agreement, was established by a combination of the talents of Axl, Slash, Stradlin and Duff - not Axl, Stradlin Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Gardener - your point can be disputed.

Has Pete Best, a bigger claim in The Beatles over Ringo Starr?


You are comparing a tour, as confirmed by the then, manager as being in support of studio recording, with a Budweiser commercial? I do not even think an one second appearance and song license in an advert would produce that much capital, compared with the amount of money generated from an arena tour! Perhaps one overdub? Your analogy is absolutely absurd, and all, to sustain a ridiculous will o the wisp scenario to exonerate Axl from a tacky commercial appearance!

You are also forgetting one thing Jarmo. The commercial is there, Axl swaying his bottle of Budweiser, for us to cringe at. It exists. CD2 does not exist for public consumption. This bonanza this advert allegedly provided for recording did not hasten the album on, did it?

 

I guess we will never know...

Sober Duff just seems too smart and too down to earth to have done that... maybe it's naive on my part... again... we will never know.

Maybe Slash would have pushed to use the GNR name without Axl on Duff.

Even if they truly would not have continued on without Axl, they could have prevented the last 15 years from happening.

A sort of "if we can't all have it, no one can".  The name could have sat in legal limbo all this time and spared them having to see all this happen.

That's true. I could see that.

Hahah.   I do love shots.  

Velvet revolver would have been guns n roses.   If duff and slash had the name

If slash alone had the name, ugh....   We would be looking at Myles Kennedy as the lead singer right now, of guns n roses

We think it's painfully waiting for Axl to release new music.   What is even more painfully is waiting for velvet revolver to announce there new lead singer.   How long has that search been going on for?

The best thing for guns, was for Axl to keep the name.   

The best thing that ever happend to slash was for duff to sober up and go to college and to help him fight for a few things in regards to prior business

Both slash and duff still make millions of the name gnr.   Even though Axl has the rights and ownership to the name

It's one of the favorite topics for the people who think freely and like discussions. Name, setlist, Chinese Democracy promotion... And around we go.
 


/jarmo

And you couldn't avoid them if we offered a cash prize.

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.  Little bit.

I think Duff would have questioned an Axl-less Guns's validity if Izzy was not there, and Izzy would not be there if not for the simple reason that he does not like the limelight, the lack of Axl Rose aside. I am 50% on Slash attempting it. He might have. If he did attempt it, I think he would have roped in Gilby instead of Kushner. He would have went for Matt over Adler for obvious reasons.

The reason I mention the Duff-Izzy thing, is, Duff is still in regular contact with Izzy and plays on his solo albums. It would only take a few remarks from Izzy for Duff to question the whole thing.

Slash and Duff willingly left Guns N? Roses.
That leads me to believe that they no longer wanted to be in Guns N? Roses, which leads me to believe they wouldn?t want to be in Guns N? Roses without it?s iconic, legendary, irreplaceable frontman. "I think" they viewed him as such, even throughout all of their differences. Unfortunately, Axl underestimated their importance.

Ideally there would have been some language stating no one performs as GN?R without Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy.
Maybe with that in place, cooler heads could eventually prevail.

I am glad there was no language like that

Or I would haven't been able to see as many guns n roses shows as I have

In terms of the name thing...I don't think Slash and Duff would want the baggage that comes along with being in one of the most legendary bands of all time (I wouldnt). Imagine having to answer questions about there legendary singer? Oh yeah, they do that and don't even own the name.

Though Axl has benefitted from the name, this band will always be compared to the original lineup, unless he's able to make a classic album with the current lineup. Until then whether some people on this board like it or not that will always be considered the classic lineup.

Like I said, I have a low tolerance for bullshit.
Don't bring those up and you won't see me starting new threads about them.  : ok:

People were discussing musical integrity and you brought up the name issue as some kind of evidence that he got it for the money.




/jarmo

As I said before, the name should have been retired. Axl could have gone on his name and do whatever he wants. I think he could have had an Ozzy like career. Jarmo, the name Guns N' Roses really didn't mean anything until the classic lineup was formed and AFD was released.  You can spin it however you like, but that's a fact.

I would agree that keeping the name has been something of a mixed blessing for Axl.

Could we retire this thread, it surely no longer makes any sense to the topic!

Reading relative post to the thread concerning what Richard said, as far as touring , He doesn't seem any touring anytime soon. OK Right, there is Sixx Am touring, The Dead Dasies Touring , Replacements Touring, so its pretty freaking OBVIOUS there isn't going to be touring any time soon pertaining to GNR. Now I dunno DJ said there would be touring in in 2015. Now there very well could be later in the year for GNR, in a 4th quarter, Doesn't make either one of them (Richard or DJ) wrong. As everyone else who are really supportive fans *wink*, it would be nice if indeed Axl is using this time as he said he was and what somewhat evidence it seems have been giving , in the studio and working towards the next release in ernest.  Knowing Richard and his character from talking to him over the yrs(even driving him back to a hotel in Manhattan after a gig kind of knowing), he speaks truthfully and he himself is all about the music, completely understands Axl, and is very attune to the fans.  I am pretty sure there is nothing left for him to do as far as contributing more , other than do what he does as a musician and go about his thing till its time to be called back. And its my hope as so many others here, that it comes with something new to look forward to and we can move on.

That's interesting.

If he went under his own name, but hooked up with a Buckethead type, would that have worked?  I think it would have.

But, much like things are now, only if he kept at it.  Ozzy, drunk though he may have been, worked pretty tirelessly to sell himself as a viable solo act.  

Is Axl doing that?  Dunno.  But doubtful.  

Is there less pressure though?  Yeah, maybe.  And maybe that changes things.



I think I disagree.

I'm not sure he could have kept things going in the fashion he did without it.  Is 'Axl & Bunch Of Dudes' headlining RIR III?  Hard to believe.  But 'Guns N' Roses' does.

Would the label have poured all that money into an unproven name with an unproven band?  Seems like a stretch.  But you'll throw good money after bad for a new Guns N' Roses record.

The comparisons to the old band were inevitable, and no, they don't help him.  The fact some people would not give this much of a chance?  Obvious.

But I still think, on average, its done Axl far more good than bad to hold onto that name.

We need more active threads.  Spread out some of this variance.



I think he was being honest when he talked about their plans, or lack thereof.

He'd have to have gotten at least a slight heads up.  Even something vague might have allowed for a "yeah, we're going to try" or "stay tuned" sort of answer.

I think by not saying that sort of thing, he's being honest because he has heard of no such thing. 

And I believe that very well be the case he may not have heard that sort of thing, so he didn't perpetuate anything. I think if I remember after the last Vegas residency the Hard Rock was talking about again hosting them, and it very well could be that it was tossed around after at a party or whatever after show, about hey yeah we will go out again next yr(2015) and DJ who is more likely to be at those kind of things ran with that at the time, but Richard on the other hand doesn't go to the after show parties, its not his kind of thing. So he would of course not hear any such thing. And sometimes Richard doesn't know when the tours are happening to sometimes days before, as I know this from the UCAP tour. (I'm sure they are well aware of big tours of leaving the country kind of tours sometime before though).

That's your spin. You don't like the fact tat the name existed before those other guys joined. You can make claims about how it didn't mean anything or how those guys alone made it mean something. Whatever you want. None of that changes that there was a band named Guns N' Roses before those guys were in that band!

 :)



Or that somebody didn't bring up these Dead Horse topics almost, if not, every week. Is the need for attention that bad that you can't just let these topics rest already? We know you don't agree with the name issue, we know you don't like the setlist or the promotion of Chinese Democracy. We know. No need to bring it up. Can't you ust go and talk to your friends about these topics? I'm sure they'll be thrilled to talk to you about them, again. And again.




/jarmo




 

OK.  Another way to go.  There are no bad ideas.

Let's call this one Plan B.  For now.

My 3 cents

Artistic Integrity: Axl has it.

The name: Thank God Axl has it. I'd take CD and CD alone over the entire existence of VR combined any day.

The commercial: That rendition of paradise city was really shitty. On the other hand, seeing Axl in a "thing", even if it was just a short appearance in a Budweiser commercial, was really cool. I don't care if he's using the money to go bowling in Dubai, it makes no difference to me.

Seeing him in anything would be cool as long as it wasn't a porno. I mean sure, if that's his thing then go for it, but I wouldn't want to see it. Other than that, bring it on! Put him on Oprah and let him talk with Eckhart Tolle, I'll watch it.  

No, it's plan A. Your kind of person is the reason why the Dead Horse section has existed for over a decade.
See, your interesting discussions aren't as unique as a snowflake after all. Sorry.

Plan B will be that we start enforcing this a bit more, which means you'll see more of those posts moved to the proper section. So then you can complain about the lack of attention.





/jarmo

"bowling in Dubai".  Hahahahaha

And yeah, I'd rather have CD than not.

Hi Rudy :)

I agree completely about the artistic integrity, and I think that is a very valued conviction, It is all about quality over quantity for me.

Didn't you know? He goes bowling in Dubai every weekend. All the pins have Slash's face on them, and when he makes a strike, Jarmo, Del, Fernando and Beta give him a group hug. When he doesn't, he complains that he's gonna go home because the bowling equipment isn't working right. Poor Axl, with all that self doubt and everything. I love the internet fans' caricature of him.  :hihi:

Hi Emily! I have come to the point that I would not take the album from Axl if I had the power to, although I used to feel differently about that. Ultimately I don't want it if he doesn't want to give it to me, even though I do go kind of crazy with desire over it sometimes. I think it's neat that he's in the situation he is in. He really doesn't seem too concerned with pleasing anyone, so good for him. Must be nice to be free from the need to please others.

Artists create on their own timeframe, how can you legislate creativity?

You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself. Pandering to others' demands usually isn't helpful in the long run.
People often confuse wants with needs, and this isn't healthy nor helpful for them, so they end up bitter and angry and wanting to blame someone else for their own immaturity and stupidity.

It is always good to see you here Rudy, don't be such a stranger  :peace:

I said it was a 'mixed' blessing. I basically agree with what you wrote. My reading of it is, the name stuck Axl back into the arenas and gave him a carte blanche on setlists. It probably added another 100,000 to CD sales also. Negatively though, he is working in Slash's shadow and (unsuccessfully) will always compete for legitimacy. It is a constant fight for him, legitimacy.

It seems there is two laws here, one for Slash, one for Axl. Both have provided evidence of 'selling out' yet square pants has apparently more integrity than a Bud commercial. How does that work? How does that one work out? It is merely stated.

Perhaps the best exit here is to except the fact that Axl appeared in a tremendously tacky commercial for cash. He looked like an idiot in it. End of discussion. Face facts. Move on. We criticised him for it. We have moved on.  Pele, the legendary Brazilian footballer, began selling condoms when he had retired. This has not eradicated the magical feats of 1958 or 1970. People merely said, 'what a dick. He must need the cash. Oh well'' and moved on. It did not even override his status as an ambassador of world sport - still today. It merely became a (side) joke. Unfortunately everything here has to be jarmoized, by which, eradicated of humour and turned into a 'life and death serious discussion upon Axl's integrity'. Jarmo's agenda is, everything has to be perfect with - for -  Axl. The notion that Axl would appear in a totally shit and laughable ad for cash is, completely implausible.

The irony is, I personally do not hold the ad against him (as I believe nobody here does). He appeared in it. Looked a dick. Accepted the cash. Move on. This is the music industry. Who cares? Yet, we must have this ''web of speculative factors, pining the success of a Budweiser advert on the arrival of CD2'', items we do not know.

I personally find that scenario preposterous. I am sure - I hope - Axl spent his Bud money on Tequila and had a good evening. Good luck to him. He accepted the ad. Looked like a wanker. Has a cheque.

Nonsense, dont project your dreary pessimism onto the situation, GNR is a very legitimate band in anyone's view except the consistent haters and trolls that find fault with literally everything GNR does.

Arguing about the band name is ridiculous, Axl brought the name in, why shouldn't he use it, and what right do some internet imbeciles have to criticize him for it. Some "fans" have no end to their entitlement issues and whining.  :crying:

Do I really need to provide links, connecting to people who do not see Axl's band as a legitimate enterprise, Emily? Do not ask me that as I am sure I am capable of producing half of the internet!!!

You can't dispute the simple fact that the name existed before Duff, Slash and Steven joined. You just can't. You're trying to spin it all kinds of ways. The fact still remains. :)





I'm NOT comparing, straw man! I asked a simple question which you dance around:

What has changed in your opinion for you to come to the conclusion that what was true in 2006, can't be true in 2014? Just because nobody told you things didn't change, you assume they did?
Quiet dancing around it, you straw man you. Because you make no sense. You just seem stubborn because in your mind that has to be true so you can keep whining about it.

You have no evidence of this changing. But you want to believe it did. Because admitting the opposite means you got less to stand on when arguing your silly negative drivel.




And this is evidence that Universal Music has paid for all recordings since 2008?



In who's shadow?  :hihi:
And here we've been told for years that GN'R wasn't one man. It was a group effort. Here you are, proving them all wrong with this! Amusing.



I wouldn't trust your memory or numbers after the $1.99 sale debacle.



On a related note: Have you managed to say anything nice about GN'R today? This week?
I mean, you're on a GN'R fan site as you recall.... This isn't the rest of the Internet. This is for GN'R fans who LIKE the band. Just reminding you so you don't ever forget that.  :P

Do you also post on Neil Young fan sites and tell people there he looks like a wanker? And how he lacks musical integrity for selling a music player using his name?


Your act is losing it's shine. It's pretty boring reading your constant whining about the band. It's obvious you're not interested in discussion, you're only interested in repeating the same negative drivel day after day. That doesn't sound like anybody who's actually a fan. Yes, you went to shows, but that doesn't automatically make you a fan, it makes you a disgruntled customer. That's what you come across as.

It's not why this site started. So either you start thinking about adjusting your attitude, or you find another place to post. Simple. You don't belong here. Sorry!
I'm eagerly awaiting to see some kind of evidence to back up your claim that you are indeed a fan of GN'R and/or Axl Rose. I'm not talking about being a fan of some line up that existed a decade ago or something. I've tried to give you plenty of chances to adjust to your surroundings, but all you've managed to come up with is the same whining I see on Blabbermouth and other sites like it. And those aren't GN'R fan sites.

When even people around you, who aren't exactly supportive, manage to see certain points while you stubbornly ignore everything, it says a lot.



/jarmo

Up front: I'm not trying to be confrontational or argumentative or glib but...yeah...I'd like to see them.

Keeping in mind, to be compelling, they'd need to be from reputable industry folks who:

a) Have no vested financial interests in the band (past or present)
b) Have no overwhelmingly negative or overwhelmingly positive interactions/experiences with the band (meaning Mick Wahl is probably out)
c) Have no personal or business relationships with members of the band (past or present)

They might very well exist...and I've not seen them, so would love to read those points of view as they are probably well presented and I'd like to see their reasoning. And we can take it to "Dead Horse" if jarmo would like...I'd participate.

If you mean you can provide numerous links to fan postings, blogs, etc raging against the name being held by Axl or the band being legit, and that's your counter point to "anyone" ...then...no thanks.  Because, honestly, those opinions don't mean much in the discussion framework.  They're just not all that credible or compelling.

Not sure what your trying to get at?  Because Axl was in a Bud commercial for a second, you call that a loss of integrity?  Axl does one little thing, and he now has no integrity?  Axl has done other things as well.  However, comparing Axl to Slash in terms of integrity???  C'mon

Straw man. If you look at an earlier post, I stated that the name was created by Axl and Tracii Guns, presupposing that it came before the arrival of Slash. (If you require the nuts and bolts history of it, Guns were founded sometime around March 1985, Duff arriving soon after. Slash and Steven joined, June 1985).


I do not even understand what you are asking from me here. For Axl to require funding in 2014 presupposes that he was recording in 2014 with the intention to release that which has been recorded. Since he has ''x amount of material'' already recorded before 2006, was playing Vegas that year and showed no particular urgency to record or release anything, it is a virtually worthless argument to pursue.


You think there has been recording since 2008? Okay.


I agree that it was a group effort. I am sort of, tapping into the public perception of GN'R with that comment, which was, the ''Axl N' Slash'' show, the two big cartoon characters: Axl and Slash. It does not echo my own thoughts, which sees (old) Guns as a far more democratic unit; Stradlin's songwriting was an underrated and vital contribution for instance.

Even you cannot deny that Axl and Slash were the two big characters of the band, for the public?


Do you want me to wish the various band members 'happy birthday?' Will you be happy then?


If you go on a forum of rusties, you will see a lot of criticism for Neil during a certain period, of about 1980-87ish. He was genre-bending musical, putting out indifferent albums. He also adopted a right wing 'pro-Reagan' stance, unsettling his 'hippy left' fan base. There is a particularly nasty quotation from that period which is not, Shakey's finest hour, (and probably something he regrets, still today). See Jarmo, that is how 'normal' music fans operate. Metallica fans think Lars was a complete wanker on Napster-gate. Stones fans hate some Rolling Stones albums, lousy albums such as Dirty Work and Emotional Rescue. In fact, many Stones fans do not believe the band have put out a decent album since Tattoo You! Beatles fans thought Lennon had ''lost his marbles'' during the infamous, John and Yoko bed-ins. Most Elvis fans hate the cheesy 1960s film period. None of these fans feel the need to construct complex webs of apology to explain away their heroes' failings.

There is always an assumption that, we are dealing with human beings here.

Axl did a cringe worthy cheesy advert for cash. Most people cringed. Most people laughed at it. Most people do not feel the need to exonerate it, by linking it with, ''some farsighted mystical plan, to fund CD2''.


I think you have misread me. The individual act, appearing in a beer commercial, lacked integrity, as an isolated incident. It was, momentarily, a loss of integrity. It does not mean that ''he now has no integrity''. For him to ''have no integrity'' whatsoever would require Aerosmith-type, levels of whoredom.

One can do something for a quick cash fix, look a bit silly as a consequence, yet emerge (relatively) unscathed.

Axl himself might now regret the commercial. He might refer to it as that ''stupid commercial which I foolishly agreed to''. You never know.


To find what most 'general' people think of the new gnr move, Guns without Slash, is astonishingly easier. All you have to do is read the comments sections on youtube.

Not speaking for him, but this all started out as a joke. 

Fortus was so over the top about how Axl is all about art and does nothing for money....this, despite him being in that Bud commercial not even a year prior.

It was just having a laugh.

Or course, since then, backs got up and wagons were circled and now we are in a death match over a bunch of unrelated tangets.  All because GOD FORBID we have a laugh around here.  This is all SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Those people aren't "real fans".

Duh.

Exactly. The advert was trivial anyway. Axl looked a bit silly. I think everyone sees it for what it is, a quick cash fix. I laughed at the time. I still laugh at it today. If it offers Jarmo any, emotional support, I will say that it pales in comparison to appearing at the Superbowl with Fegie in a glittery top-hat. If that is what he wants from me, I am willing to concede that?

F that.. I got nothing against Fergie lol ... the hat... not Slash's nicest hat......

You don't need to lecture me on GN'R history. Don't worry.
Still, nothing you say makes sense. :)




I've asked the same thing over two days now!



Is it possible? Yes/No?




Axl Rose in 2014: We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out. We've worked more on some of those things and we've written a few new things




Of course, I'll go further. I'd put Axl as #1 in popularity, and Slash as #2.




I'd like for you to show some kind of evidence that you're here as a fan instead of a disgruntled customer. That's all.


That wasn't the question. It's not a question about what album you prefer. It's a question of you having very little nice things to say about a band that this site is dedicated to. Whine, whine, whine.
For some reason, this does not register with you. I care very little about how the rest of the Internet works. I'm not here to offer a platform for somebody who has some kind of agenda against GN'R. For whatever reason. That's not a conspiracy theory, you just whine a whole lot. For some reason.

Either you start thinking about why you're a so called fan to begin with, or you take a break until something positive (in your opinion) happens and you don't need to repeat your whiny posts ad nauseam. Simple really.

Thank you!




/jarmo