Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Talking to Triple M Sydney's Becko Dizzy Reed unveiled some news about their new album!

Who better to tell us about some HUGE Gunners news than none other than Dizzy Reed.

As one of the longest remaining Guns N' Roses members (apart from Axl) and a patron during their famous Use Your Illusion era, keyboardist and drummer, Dizzy has seen the band through some wild times.

Speaking to Triple M Sydney's Becko, he revealed some details about their upcoming album that we reported on a while back.

"I guess I've got to ask you Dizzy...I also hear you're working on the next Guns N' Roses album?" asked Becko.

"There's a wealth of material that's been recorded and written and a lot of it's done, a lot of it's being done and I  know there's people going through it now and it'll be out soon," explain Dizzy.

"...and is that from a new session or from some old sessions a few years ago?" asked Becko.

"umm...it's just a collection of stuff from over the years, but you know, great great songs that need to be heard," revealed Dizzy.

He also talked about their recently released Appetite for Democracy 3D DVD from their Hard Rock performance in Las Vegas, a hilarious story of playing at Sydney's Eastern Creek Raceway back in the day with Rose Tattoo and their love of Aussie artists like Doc Neeson.

Guns N' Roses Appetite for Democracy 3D Deluxe Edition is out now. For full details click here (http://gnr3dmovie.com/) and you can buy the DVD at https://www.jbhifi.com.au

http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/music/news/2014/11/dizzy-reed-reveals-details-of-new-gnr-album/

---

/jarmo

Preach on, Brother Reed.  Preach on.

From the quotes there seems to be some actual work being done right now. I think this looks more promising than "we hope to get together" and "within a year".

Dizzy saying there's people going through the stuff, I take it he means Caram and Axl selecting the songs for the album.

An update on that process would have been cool now, are the songs pre-mixing or pre-mastering? That would come into play as to what kind of time scope we're looking at. Hopefully we'll get that update when the track list is finalized.

"SOON" is the word!  : ok:

Great news from Dizzy, there is beginning to be a real buzz surrounding the new album :peace:

My guess is Axl worked on selecting the songs in Vegas after the residency.  They're probably in the mastering, mixing stage... That's just an educated guess on my part.

There's a big difference in those two stages though. Mixing could take months, mastering usually takes a week or so.

While on the subject, I really hope they go against the stream with this next release as well and presents us an album with a high dynamic range mastering. Chinese Democracy was celebrated in the Hi-Fi communities in that regard.

Yeah, the loudness wars just suck.

I'm hoping for a proper vinyl release. ;)




/jarmo

Sounds real solid through headphones, which is how I listen to most of my stuff.

You can really hear a lot of the nuance.

I second that. The whole loudness war thing is getting ridiculous, such a great way to ruin great albums.

But it's starting to sound like there really is something happening again in the GN'R camp, and that's always good. The expectations would be a little different this time around, as people now know that GN'R is not about repeating things that were successful before. CD was something completely new, and I'm sure the next album will be too.

Yeah, I think it'll be similar. Musically. Stylistically.

All the fans who keep posting that GN'R needs to release something new, I wonder if they didn't enjoy Chinese all that much, how they'll enjoy something that sounds somewhat similar. The same kind of departure from the classic rock sound that Chinese Democracy is....

It'll be fun to read those reactions.



/jarmo

I don't get that vibe at all.

The only people interested in a further release obviously liked the last one.  If you hated CD, I don't see how you'd give a damn if they ever released anything else.

It's the way it goes with certain things (bands, tv series, movies etc.) and with certain people; someone likes the way GN'R used to be but now when they have a new sound and a lot has changed, one doesn't like it anymore. But still he has the need to give negative comments about what's going on around the band. These people won't be satisfied with a thought of "hey, I like these older albums and thats all I need". That, in my opinion, would be just fine. You don't have to like something, just leave it be when it's not hurting anybody. But it's never going to be that way  ;)

Totally agree.

The people that continue to hang around when they are totally open that they have no interest in the current situation don't make much sense to me.

I can't fathom the wasted time.  If I refused to accept the line-up changes, am I hanging around GNR forums for the past 10 years?  Seems counterproductive to me.

But does it happen? Do people who don't think this band releasing the new album is GN'R still go to GN'R forums?




/jarmo

Sure do.  The biggest GNR forum on the net is overrun with such folks.  Actually, just about every GNR forum save this one has them.

And some of their stuff is funny, though I imagine you'd be horribly offended.  You think the stuff around here is out of bounds.  You lead one sheltered online life.

I know Axl has said in the past that if you don't like Chinese, you probably won't like the future release. But, he has also said that the new songs are a bit meaner and darker. That might appeal more to some people. I think Axl probably was referring to the people not accepting the new line-up -  who won't like new music out of spite.

The fact that Axl also said he wanted a more organic song creating process in the future could maybe lead to less complex sound scapes in new GNR songs. I don't know, but this could be the tipping point for certain fans that didn't "get" the Chinese sound.

For the record, I'm a big fan of Chinese, but I can see where some fans are coming from. Chinese was quite different from previous GNR music in some aspects, even though I think it's still recognizable as GNR.

I'm not offended by stupidity or pointless waste of time. I just try to stay away from that kind of things in life. Unless I'm really bored!

That's why I have zero or very little interest in such fan sites.  : ok:

I think most people know that certain posters on the Internet would rarely act the same way if they had to sit next to the person they are posting about. If they knew what the artists they bash actually think of the post(s) or if they couldn't be anonymous at all.



Totally agree. It's still quite guitar heavy with amazing guitar work and vocals. Like all GN'R albums. You just need to look past the fact that there's additional instruments on the album.




/jarmo

Some tunes, sure.

'Street Of Dreams', 'if The World' 'There Was A Time', 'Cather In The Rye', 'I.R.S.', for instance.  These would not be totally out of place on the UYI albums.

But tunes like 'Shacker's Revenge', 'Scraped', 'Rhiad & The Bedouins', 'Prostitute'...a bridge too far for some.

Now compare UYI to AFD. You could say a similar thing.... Typical GN'R in other words.





/jarmo

Are you talking about the songs as a whole or just parts of them? If I listen to the verses of the last four songs you mentioned, it's pretty straight forward rock music albeit there's some more electronic elements. The guitars are very much front and center. I agree there's a total different guitar sound if that's what you were thinking.

Much starker contrast.  Be serious.

You can't help but go down that road, can you?  The "same as it ever was" insistence.

I think the best way to put it is that I could see Slash on any tune in the first batch.

That second batch, he's going to have no interest in any of that.

these more modern tracks, except TWAT and TIL, are my fav on the LP. I still don't understand why Shackler wasn't the first single.

so I hope the same evolution for the next LP. I want to be surprised, as always with Axl's work.

Because to me all albums are a natural evolving thing from the past album.


Unless the Black Eyed Peas were somehow involved.  :hihi:



/jarmo

I think 'Shacker's Revenge' is way catchy.

Sure and if anybody saw the song performed live, they know it as well.

But then again, some of those people who don't like it never went, because "it's not GN'R"...  :hihi:



/jarmo

Is it the quality of the song itself? If so, that's fair.

As for if Slash would have worked on the material. I think he would have, there's a lot of ways to approach a song. Here's a couple of stripped down versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=walgedu-DZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN7reZTaA1o


Personally I think Prostitute is a damn good song. Listening to the first link, I think that GNR should have gone for a stripped down version, it would have been their best acoustic song ever.

Not necessarily true.  I've heard people say that they "hated" CD but still hold out hope that the next album could be something that appeals to them because they've obviously loved Axl's work in the past. 

I get the hope, but I doubt it'll be fulfilled.  I'm also not sure how genuine that hope really is.  It's tough to like something when you go into it with a negative attitude, and that's how they seem to be approaching it to me.

Thanks for the links Spirit! That's some good shit! Love his arrangements, I would kill to hear a stripped down version of CD like that. Or any alternate version of CD for that matter.

Thanks for posting the interview Jarmo! This is some great news. I'm glad that they aren't shelving the older Chinese songs in favor of releasing some more recent material sooner. This is mostly because I am a huge fan of the Chinese era, and I'm sure the new stuff will have it's time at some point too. It's great that there's so much material for them to choose from.

I'm super stoked about the next album. Major ants in my pants. Kind of makes me feel restless and impatient. I wonder what the album title is going to be? If it's called something other than CD2 it will be neat to hear the title for the first time. This is exciting... new songs, lyrics, song titles, album artwork, all completely unknown. With CD you could hear some of the stuff live (not to mention leaks) before you heard the album and you already knew what the title was gonna be but it looks like it may be different this time around.

Then... Material Remastered From Era:

FINCK / BRAIN / BUCKETHEAD

 :beer:

Maybe In ChinDem Remixes

 :smoking:

Amen to that HBK!

edit: I thought you were responding to my post. But even though you weren't, Amen to the prospect of a CD remix.

For me, "Prostitute" has a modern day "Rocket Queen" sound to it, which I like. The tunes that I like the most are:  "I.R.S." "CD", "Street of Dreams", "If the World", "Madagascar",  "Better", and "There was a Time". I think "TIL" sounds better live since it doesn't have that Weber feel to it. 

Btw, what is this loudness war that was talked about? Is it regarding the recording of CD?

I agree Draguns, Prostitute resembles Rocket Queen in at least one way that I can think of. The last lyrics of Rocket Queen were like a peaceful epilogue to all of the madness on Appetite. Much like the closing portion of Prostitute.

Albums mastered to be louder and losing nuances in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

CD was mastered properly.
To sound good, not sound loud.


/jarmo

Thanks Jarmo. I remember that there was an issue with the way Metallica's "Death Magnetic" was recorded. I didn't know about this term, though.

The loudness wars were a huge issue in 2008.

Heres an article written by Bob Ludwig about the Loudness wars and Chinese Democracy.
http://www.gatewaymastering.com/gateway_LoudnessWars.asp

I've mentioned it once, but I'll say it again, that to me Chinese Democracy was the next evolution of GNR from the Illusion Albums.

I am looking very forward to owning and listening to more songs along the lines of Chidem. Especially "darker and meaner".   :love:

GNR should name their next album "Soon"   ;D

yeah Rick Rubin really did a number on that Metallica record.  That record was filled with great songs too, the live versions on the livemetallica.com actually sound better than the studio mix.

Its ironic that both  one of the best mastered records of all time and one of the worst were both Metallica records.  The "Black" album is probably the best sounding recording I have ever heard and I know that is a popular opinion.  Even 23 years later it really is stunning when you listen to it, you can focus on any instrument at any time and hear it perfectly clear, and the tone on the guitars was ridiculous.    Bob Rock typically gets the best sound out of the bands he works with.

It was really impressive how Chinese Democracy was done, there was a lot going on with that record but it never felt cluttered, they did a great job.

That's a great way to put it. From AFD to UYI to CD, everything has delivered something new to the fans and to the musical world overall. Sure some fans will be dissapointed, but you can't please everybody. That's the magic of GN'R, they do what they love to do, not what the record company or some people would want them to do. It happened with UYI and it happened with CD. Or does anybody seriously think that releasing "another AFD" instead of UYI or in the 00's would have been a better choice? That it would have been TRUE ROCK N' ROLL AND SEX AND DRUGS YEAH!

I see it as UYI III. It's a little further off the path but most of the songs would have fit.

Yeah. Even if it's something subtle as an instrument used that you don't associate with GN'R.



/jarmo

There are songs on Chinese that as much as I?ve tried, I haven?t been able to, and at this point don?t ever expect to get into(Shackler?s, Riad, Scraped).
There are some songs I enjoy (Street of Dreams, CITR, Prostitute).
I like bits and pieces of some songs, song cool ideas, but as a whole they don?t do much for me(IRS, Madagascar).

Overall, I?ve just about exhausted Chinese. Just isn?t my bag.
Doesn?t mean I expect that to be the rule on future releases.
More the exception, since Chinese is the first batch of songs featuring Axl I couldn?t get behind.
Other than CD & My World, I love just about everything he?s ever recorded.

The Stones are my favorite band, and they haven?t put out an album I?ve really enjoyed in my lifetime.
Still I buy their albums, and am rewarded from time to time with gems like ?Plundered My Soul? for example.

Definitely not counting Axl out.

Great tune.  That batch of tracks turned out to be better than I expected.

I actually really liked their last albums of new stuff.  Thought 'Bigger Bang' and 'Voodoo Lounge' were excellent, and thought 'Bridges To Babylon', though a cut below those two, still very solid.

Haha :D
There were bound to be complaints from a certain sector regardless, if an album with similar content to AFD had been recorded and released, they would have undoubtedly been slated badly.

I found chinese democracy to be no less than majestic and wonderfully multilayered, very complex on certain songs and the lyrics were stellar, I related immediately.

It is still amazing listening to it through my headphones, mindblowing 6 years later. :beer:

Chinese Democracy is absolutely an album that just keeps growing, still 6 years later. I totally agree! I'm happy that the already recorded stuff seems to be the next thing out. Can't wait to hear all those already legendary songs we've hears so much about. Happy really there's been no leaks out now, so when the time comes it's gonna be a blast!

I agree with you West Coast Junkie! Hearing more from stuff from the Chinese era will be a dream come true for me. I'm sure the most recent stuff will be great too.

I also agree with the sentiment voiced here that the style of UYI was a major departure from Guns' previous releases, and that CD was a well done continuation of that evolutionary curve. I hope the next album will be something of a concept album as CD was, with all the songs flowing into one another as opposed to the seemingly random collection of songs that was present on UYI. I love UYI, don't get me wrong, but I am a fan of listening to entire albums in one sitting and CD catered to this preference of mine more so than UYI did.

CD seemed to sum up many aspects of the music scene that took place during the time of its creation by incorporating elements from many different genres into the GNR sound. It was so well done. I simply cannot imagine another release with as wide of a vision as Chinese done with the same painstaking quality. I am very curious to see if they will be able to pull something like that off again. What kinds of universal themes will the lyrics address? What does Axl mean when he says that this album may be a little meaner and darker than the last one? I can't wait to see!

I go back and forth on that.

I too would ultimately like the album to come out without any leaks.  But, cards on the table, I will pretty much refuse to believe anything is actually happening until something does leak.  Leaks happen when people in the chain who are working on it get sticky fingers.  That one guy that plays it for his girlfriend, but "she has to promise to not share it" and whatnot.  And then it gets out.

Sadly, I have zero willpower.  As much as I'd like to remain pristine, if there was leak that dropped this afternoon, I'd trample over people to get a copy.

I'm interested in hearing whatever they can give us, but specifically, I think I'd like to hear as much Bucket stuff as I could.  I felt he was the star of the last album.

And even though Bucket is long, long gone, Ron does a nice job playing his stuff live.  If Ron is actually gone too, they are in a world of shit for the live concerts going forward.

One would have to think Ron's ability to play in that style got him the gig in the first place.

That's my guess.  And do guys like that grow on trees?

I've been watching new band stuff exclusively on Youtube.  The guitar outro to 'There Was A Time' is my favorite part of the entire album.  One of my favorite 2 minutes of ANY Guns N' Roses song.  Bucket just tears it up.

But if you call up a performance of that song from the past few tours on Youtube, if you listen to it with eyes closed, Ron pretty much nails it.

Yeah, Ron plays some killer solos.  I thought his outro on Prostitute this past residency was great.  IMO, my favorite Ron solo is the middle-finger solo on Nightrain (Glasgow '12, I think).

Stop saying nice things....we all know its just an excuse to get to ur larger negative you hate the band "agenda".  Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Ron is a very diverse player... I think thats a good way to describe him. If he is not available in the future , I would think DJ and Richard split up his duties...just a guess.

Dammit, am I that transparent? Anyway, a DJ/Richard combo (assuming Ron is gone and no one takes his place) would have a much different sound, IMO.  Gone would be the hyper-technical, Bucket-ish shredding, which I kind of enjoy.  Shit, there I go again with praise. 

Hahahaha

Can't win with our man, can ya?

We're on to you, buddy.  We're not fooled.

Someone at MYGNR broke down how many parts Ron covers in a standard setlist.  And its a lot, a whole hell of a lot.

And I don't get the impression that DJ could do it all just fine, but chooses to give it up.  I get the feeling Ron does it out of necessity.

Bucket's great, Ron's great, DJ's great, Josh Freese is great, Brain is great, Robin is great... That's part of what I really like about the Chinese Era. Having so many great players contribute to the writing and recording of the album made it that much more epic. I'd hate to see Ron go but I'm not too worried about what will happen next if he does. His caliber of musicianship is rare but so is Slash's, so is Buckets, so is Josh Freese's, etc...

With GNR you don't just get a diamond ring with one diamond on it, you get a diamond necklace loaded with diamonds.

For the most part .. I have never doubted the ability of most of the guys as musicians they all bring something to the table

Haha.
Prove me wrong.
Let's see how long your love fest lasts....  : ok:


Talking of TWAT, I don't think the musicianship on that particular track has gotten its due credit yet. Not only the guitar playing on it....


/jarmo

Yeah, not sure how on earth his voice was able to go that high. It really is one of the great highlights of his singing career. I think people take that kind of thing for granted nowadays because so many of the vocal parts in today's music are heavily altered by computers and technology. So you hear lots of crazy shit, but most of it is phony and it's pretty hard to identify what's what so you get a little jaded about it. At least I did.

If he sung like that on an album back in the sixties people would have shit themselves. 

Rudy, someone sent me this quote- I think it is applicable in several ways to certain situations:

"Popular culture is a place where pity is called compassion, flattery is called love, propaganda is called knowledge, tension is called peace, gossip is called news, and auto-tune is called singing."- C.Jami

Was very fortunate to hear TWAT live in Vegas this year, it was a great experience, unbelievable! :love:

I'm glad that I can make you laugh   8)

I have zero musical talent... so I tend to to form my opinions based on what others think about that (musical proficiency). TWAT, Prostitute and Better are my three favorites from this record lyrically and musically.

#renunionORbust !!!!!!!!!!! (bring back Robin and Bucket)  ;D

these threads are criss crossing a bit... but I strongly agree with Mortis about there are a lot of people who were very supportive of the new band but threw their hands up in disgust when half of that band walked out ...I'm not one of those people... I'll follow Axl till the end... but I more than understand those frustrations... its not a crime to admit

People that have been mad for 10-15 years still continue to be mad.  That's not really news.

But among those of us that are still sticking with all this, I think you see a sort of line of demarcation around the 2012 tour.  That was really the first time they really seemed like they were running in place.  All the other legs from 2001 through 2011 showed something new.  New band members, new songs played, etc. 

2012 onward seems to be about looking backwards, not forwards.  They have based 2 residencies in the past 3 years on a 25 year old album.  Pretty hard to call that forward thinking.

Sure, there will always be people that treat everything they do as gold.  But if that is your mindset, would you also be onboard with Axl just reading the phone book?  Is everything equal, in so long as Axl does it, it's great? 

I think that's a pretty foolish rationale.  Some things are better than others. 

I am on board just because of Axl and Tommy. I certainly enjoy what others have brought to the table post 1996 but my focus remains on Axl. Tommy is the only member post 1996 with a large amount of street/industry credibility and respect (plus I love The Replacements). The other guys are very good players, but I think they have all been replaceable at one point or another. The only one who can fill Tommy's shoes is Duff...so, I guess they are all replaceable outside of Axl.  :P

There's some awesome underrated keyboard playing on it that I like immensely :smoking:

Agreed.

Look how many line-up changes we've already rolled with.  We are totally desensitized as his point.

If Axl replace the entire band tomorrow, would it matter?  I'd have to say no, it would not.

I hear all the time that so long as its Axl, and it called Guns N' Roses, its a continuation of some sort of vision.  I don't really see anyone jumping ship if they all got sacked.

Overall, the best song on the album for my money.  Its basically flawless.

I definitely agree that TWAT is the best song on CD.

It has always just bothered me that Tommy admitted to not liking GNR prior to getting paid by them... I think others had similar feelings

However. He has since been a very loyal soldier... and you are right he definitely came in with great "cred"

Are you Dizzy or Chris? lol

That was just such a weird comment.

Even if true, do you say it in the press?  Doesn't that sort of undermine the whole thing?

If the album is the second half of Chinese Democracy, then chances are they'll be on the album...



Because he was in a different world. The Replacements were part of a different scene.




/jarmo

Oh i expect them to be... Not a bad thing...

Understood about The Replacements... still strange to hear and admit.

Tommy would have seen Guns as a cheesy hair band in the 1980s. They were the 'enemy'. It is probably just as surprising that Duff McKagan ended up playing on songs such as Don't Cry and Back Off Bitch.

OneInAMillion was a poster who I think got fed up ...he's not here anymore... and he was one of the most steadfast new GNR supporters on any site.

He was obsessed with Robin. Hopefully he's ok ha

funny Tommy mention in an article about Tommy and his brother Bob.........and Gnr

If Bob's death wasn't much a surprise to anybody, Tommy's current position as bass player in Axl Rose's new Guns N' Roses line up has most Replacements fans carrying on as if he was new band leader  on the Jerry Springer Show. Hey, if those people really care so much about Tommy Stinson why didn't more of 'em go to the record store to buy the record he made with his band, Bash N' Pop? I bought it and I say, "If Tommy wants to be in a really big popular band he's earned it." You don't have his Bash N' Pop album in your collection? Shut the fuck up awready. Nobody in the entire history of rock music has earned the right to a gigantic L.A. mansion and a collection of European sports cars the way Tommy Stinson has. If your silly little teen idol Kurt Cobain had recorded eight Nirvana albums that never sold more than a hundred thousand copies, then recorded another great album with another great band that nobody bought you bet you ass he'd be thrilled to be playing guitar in Guns N' Roses. That, of course, ignores the fact that he wasn't good enough to play in Guns N' Roses, but he'd sure be beggin' for an audition. One thing's for sure - Bob would be thrilled to see Tommy playing in Guns N' Roses. Maybe if he was still alive Axl would have asked Bob to join up, too. Hey! What if, instead of being in The Replacements, the Dogbreath Boys had done the traditional teenage alcoholic high school drop out thing and run away to Los Angeles around the same time Axl Rose and Izzy Stradlin came in from Indiana? Now, THAT would be something worth traveling into the past to set up!

There! And I got all the way through it without mentioning Alex Chilton even once!



 
 

 

My guess would be late 2015/early 2016, of that list.

"There's a wealth of material that's been recorded and written and a lot of it's done, a lot of it's being done and I  know there's people going through it now and it'll be out soon," explain Dizzy.

I wonder what that "a lot of it's being done" part means? Being done as in they are still recording certain parts? Or mixing certain parts?

Also, not that it counts for much, and who knows whether it was intentional or not, but I noticed he didn't say "hopefully will be out soon", he said "it'll (it will) be out soon. Am I right about that or did I miss something there? Doesn't he usually say "hopefully"?

14 tracks is really a lot of material. CD is probably one of the longer CDs I own. I hope we get that much again! I'm sure whatever we get will be great though.

Also I hope the album cover features a picture of me ...


Because then I could hold it over all of your heads.

"Slashsbaconpit, you're such an ass."
"Yeah, but I'm on the cover of a GNR album."
"Doh!"

It will be great.

The bit I don't get is the "people going through it" part.  What do you figure that means?

Why wouldn't he just say "we" are looking at it?  Who are these people?

The people who make decisions. The people who have to work on them in order for the tracks to be released? So many possibilities!



/jarmo

So you think these are people other than the band themselves?  Like an A&R type?

It could be band, it could be management, it could be engineers, it could be record company people.
It doesn't really specify.



/jarmo

I would imagine all of the above to some extent, if in fact they are getting serious about putting this out soon.  DJ's gone from touting the 10 songs he wrote to just being hopeful he can make his mark on the tracks Axl already has recorded.  To me, this is a good thing.  Less material to tinker with and write and record vocals for.  Who knows, maybe DJ has already done this on a few tracks and they're just waiting for final mixing and mastering?

Agreed.

Whatever you are going with, it has to come from what you've already done and left sitting around for 10 years.  If you didn't see fit to record anything new in all that time, I can't see doing so now.

I'm sure it bums DJ out that the best he's going to do are a few cut-n-paste riffs.  But logically, you need to clear the vault a bit before he can ever hope to get any of his own stuff on a GNR disc.

To me, this would also show that although he has zero sense of time or urgency to put out new music, Axl has always had a pretty good idea of what tracks were going to end up on the followup album.  I don't know how much DJ was instructed to write and send Axl those songs, by my guess is this was never a real priority for Axl to include on the followup, just based on all the recent comments of the two albums worth of finished tracks that Axl has waiting to be released. 

Considering Chinese Democracy is basically in two parts, it makes sense to release the second half before starting the next album from scratch....



/jarmo

Yep, I've always thought this as well.  As much as I loved Chinese, and considering all the mystique surrounding the rest of the tracks recorded during that time, hearing the second half of that sounds about as cool as it gets for me.

Getting already recorded songs released has been like pulling teeth.

This would be the last real record I'd expect from this band.  Even if this come out in the next year or so, given the touring that will follow mixed in with downtime, any future album would be...what, 6 years away, best case?  Probably closer to 8 to 10?

Even if this line-up is still together (unlikely) is Axl going to be all about starting from scratch at 60 or whatever years old?  Doubtful.

You're just assuming things will always stay the same.

We don't even know if music will be put out on records in your time frame.  :P




/jarmo

As a rule, I tend to not embrace any argument that starts out with ignoring years of evidence and then figuring, out of nowhere, things will be done 180 degrees differently. 

Could it happen?  I suppose.  Technically, the guy that has struck out at the bar for a solid year might show up tonight and walk out with the hottest girl too.  Could it happen?  I guess.  Is it all likely?  Not even a little bit.

The track record of both this band and the man himself suggest an extremely slow pace and band turnover.

Anything past this second half of Chinese would be the definition of gravy, in my view.  I'm assuming he only has one more real run in him.

And I don't rule anything out.

Remember all those years of experience when people said the Earth was flat? ;)



/jarmo

In my opinion... this is such a crucial time for the future of Guns N Roses...I hope it goes the way we want...

As long and as painful as the process was ... we all KNEW eventually there would be a record... there had to be... otherwise what was really the point....

But now... Axl isn't necessarily required in a way to deliver anything or put out this earth shattering record to prove to everybody he doesn't need X and Y to be Guns n Roses. At this point Axl could really decide nahhhhhhh I don't need to to put this out... I dont think it will happen...but would it shock you if it did?

Couple that with that we all suspect there are more lineup changes coming if there is a new tour next year...

What would Guns N Roses be in 2015/16 without a record and more lineup changes...

It would be a wicked show that I will be first buying tickets too!

Well, yeah, the "hey, you never know" argument is always out there for any topic.  I just don't know how seriously you have to take it.

Under that same premise, there could be a reunion.  Hey, you never know.

Nope.

Yeah I'm sure....

If it's possible for me to see Axl perform... I will too... not really the point of my post.

And how many things can you accurately predict for the future? I mean, early 2008, were you predicting a year end release? Early 2014, did you predict Duff being back? A few hours before the La Paz show, did you predict You Could Be Mine as th opening song?


I've been surprised more than once by something GN'R did.


/jarmo

LOL.... no i did not expect you could be mine to be the opener that night........

So is Axl still saying this will be the second half of CD? I wasn't aware that was still the case, but I'm very happy to hear that my favorite album of all time is actually only half of an album and that it looks like I may be getting the next half soon.

 I wonder in what ways it will be "the other half"? In terms of style? Or will certain songs correspond to other songs? CD seemed so complete, prostitute was the perfect ending. How do you continue that story? Does this mean I need to play CD 1 and then CD2 in one sitting to get the whole experience? That would be pretty awesome! It would almost be the length of a whole movie. Something tells me I am in for some really epic shit!

That's more minutiae.  I am talking bigger picture things.

Here's a big problem, and I quote

"..I hope it goes the way we want..."

Flawed thinking there, I hope it goes GNRs way whatever way benefits the band the most. :love:

How noble of you...

I think its more that he said they recorded enough to fill 2 full albums.

They allegedly have even more than that.  But, logically, not everything can be a gem and I'm sure some cuts will be made.

I suspect the 2 albums will be what Axl considers the strongest work from the batch of stuff they did from 1999-2002 or whenever that end date was.

I'm pretty sure we all want that.

All the supposed gripes, at their base, were rooted in opinions that the way certain things were done did not maximize value for the band.

Reveals a lot about your mindset, it is not "noble" at all, simply realistic.

Rooted in opinions is right. All the gripes from people were based on that from their armchair quarterback positions, they thought they could call the plays better. Others were merely upset that the band didn't do things to suit them.

Both ridiculous premises. :hihi:

The process is all messed up. He puts out Chinese 2, say, next year. That will consist of songs written 1999-2002, songs which are over twelve years old. That still means the band will not have written or worked on anything original in twelve or so years. That still means that Ron, DJ and Frank are not going to get songwriting credits. Even if they began writing now, you are probably not going to see those tracks until 2025. Now one of the problems with Chinese was it sounded dated the day it was released, it sounded like a late 90s album. So the music is never going to reflect the year it is released, never reflect Axl's songwriting as it is now.

I agree.  Which makes it a good thing no one has ever put them forth. 

The only time those premises have ever been introduced are by "loyal fans" who felt the need to crush dissent.  So they project, and put a bunch of words in the mouths of the people saying thing they didn't like, and then just pretended it all was real.  That it all really happened.

All any of us want is to see the bad succeed as much as they can.  Knocking down various strawmen is just what we do in the interim.

What, u judge an unreleased album D? :P

All true.

But, at least as I see it, that ship has sailed.  I wish he'd have done it differently too.  But now I'm just taking what I can get.

Waiting for 'the album with Axl, Ron and Bumble' starts now. :headbanger:

 :hihi:

Oh, no.

But "the band should listen to me, because I know all" and/or "I will only be happy if things are done my way" are not things that have been said, by anyone, ever.

Hahahaha.  Might as well wait for the tooth fairy.

The rest of the CD sessions is the only realistic thing you can expect.

No. But is this album going to consist of songs written after 2002? Presumably not if it says 'Chinese Democracy 2' on it.

Regardless of it title, that's what we are getting.  Songs recorded many moons ago, some with people long gone.

And that's fine.  I've long come to terms with that quizzical business plan.

The only way they could sort out the mess is if (and we truly are dealing with 'ifs' here) they put out a boxset as a sort of house clearance and tour off that for only a short burst, then begin anew.

Our man ain't exactly Johnny Ambition.

He's had 8 years to do ONE SONG with those fellas.  Can't see an argument if he cleared the decks, he'd get right to work.

I did say we are dealing with 'ifs'.

Hahahaha.

True.

So what if it's songs from late 90's/early 20k's. I gladly have more of it.  : ok:


Kinda. If they cut off (fade out) the song at around the 3min mark it would have been up there I think.  /flameshield on. The rest is ambitious but ends up too bland. The song is too long and repetive, and Axl's voiceacrobatics and additional soloing here mostly mean anything to targeted rockmusicfans. Axl's high notes merge diferently in the music than in WTTJ. He don't stand out. If they were gonna keep the ending then I'd focus more on the killswitchparts and made it less loose.

I love the song, but think its more a guitar song than an Axl song. 

Bucket's outtro is awesome, but really, really like the one in the middle too.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say the guitar (and vocals) on the outro is anything less than awesome. The devil is in the mix.


Half the song is an outro btw :P

But we are never going to know what an 'Axl song' from a period, just before the first time we hear the song, sounds life - never again. Does this not strike you as a thoroughly illogical and frustrating method? When we heard Appetite, we knew those were lyrics reflected Axl's life, 1985-86. Neil Young has released six albums since Axl released Chinese Democracy- six. You simply know that each one of those albums represents Neil, there and then.

Why is it important that the lyrics reflect what is currently going on in his head? Is it really relevant to how good the album is? Good lyrics are good lyrics in my opinion. They don't depreciate over time or anything like that.

Also, CD did not sound dated. It was unlike anything I've ever heard before, very refreshing at the time. Just my two cents, but yeah. It is actually aging really well.

Take the very beginning of the album. All those primeval noises and the Chinese chattering... that is some trippy sounding shit. Doesn't sound dated at all. When I think dated, I think something that isn't necessarily old but something that is boring, corny, redundant, or that has already been done better by someone else. You know, something obsolete.

If I had to pick something in CD that seems a little dated to me, the only thing I could really think of would be the speech in Madagascar. I don't mind it but it does take a while and you can't really sing along with it. I feel like maybe I would have liked to have heard more lyrics or a guitar solo from whoever awesome guitarist, something along those lines. Y'know, why focus on the speech and quotes when you have some of the world's best musicians to work with? Sometimes that part of the song can be a little redundant. Sometimes I like it though. Ultimately you could say I'm on the fence with it. If the remix album contains a version of the song that loses the speech and quotes or that utilizes them in a different way, I would be interested to see how it affected the overall flow of the track. Has Axl ever said anything about his intentions behind the remix album? Like why he decided to make it or whatever? I'm a little curious about that.


Besides that, I got nothin'. I am literally listening to CD as I type this and everything sounds really polished and state of the art as far as I can tell. IRS sounds like a space age classic rock song.

I cannot wait for the next GNR album! The anticipation is killing me! At least I'll have the dvd to tide me over once Christmas comes along (my fiance bought me a copy of the plain dvd at Target for around fifteen bucks!). But who knows, the next album could already by out by then.

It would certainly matter if he was a topical songwriter, and, Axl is no stranger to topical songwriting (Chinese Democracy, Riad). Hasn't Axl got a song called Oklahoma in the vaults? The Oklahoma bombing was 1995. If that song came out in 1999, it would be far more pertinent to us than, if it came out in, say, 2015! But to answer your question more generally, no, it does not really matter in itself (although, I happen to like the fact that albums reflect the artists as they are, now). I just think it is sad that all these songs have to be stored away for a decade before being released; as I said, unless there is a house clearance, presumably the process will repeat itself, with songs written 2015 not destined to be released for 2025. Axl's whole methodology is a mess.

I suppose I have to disagree about Chinese. There are some terrific songs on there but the production was a mess. It is ironic because the greatest album Axl ever recorded was recorded in thirty days.

Doesn't mean the lyrics are about the incident itself....


Rolling Stone, January 2000 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=30)




/jarmo

So, in your opinion what are the complaints and constant gripes, as well as unsolicited amateur advice rooted in?

I'm certain we view things very differently, but I'm interested to hear this.

I love the speech part (I don't want to lose HEART!!!) and I love the guitar solo that's played with it.  That solo gives the effect of something coming to a boil. 

TWAT is a masterpiece in the truest sense of the word.  Whenever I show one of my friends who haven't heard much of Chinese, it's a toss up between TWAT & Better.  My two personal favs.

Any sort of talk about how things are or were done have NEVER included the following stances :

- I know everything, I should be listened to all times
- I believe something I am saying on the internet will affect change in the band's operation
- I am an expert in the music business
- I will withhold support if things are not done my way

No one with a supposedly controversial opinion has ever said those things, not one time.  These are projections put forth by people who don't ever want to hear that everything is not sunshine and puppy dog tails.  Far too much time is wasted knocking down these strawmen positions.

Presumably there is some sort of lyrical connection with the Bombing. Regardless, it doesn't invalidate what I said. A large proportion of Chinese's lyrics concern Stephanie Seymour, Axl's former girlfriend from 16 years ago prior, (to the release of Chinese).

When I played people certain songs, I had people tell me they sounded a bit dated.

One that comes to mind is 'Shackler's Revenge'.  I still remember my brother saying it sounded like the kind of thing he was listening to 7-8 years prior.

To me, you can hear the influence of the nu metal genre.

I agree.

Doesn't make it bad though.

I do not care for the song.

That song really seems to divide people.

I like it a lot, and think its one of the catchier songs on the album.  But I have also heard people just bury it.

The thing about great songs is that you can listen to them and relate. No matter who the song was written about, inspired by or what the subject is actually about.


Once again, the whole need of a new GN'R album has now shifted focus to the fact that you don't (?!!) like the new songs because of when they were written...




/jarmo

I think you need reading lessons. I never said such an absurd thing.

Bottom line... whether you fall in any of the three groups ... A) somebody who cant wait to hear new/old songs have an affinity for Bucket and Robin B) somebody who wants the current lineup to write new songs or c) somebody holding on to dear life that one day.....

you want the vault cleared as soon as possible... because none of those three happen until the old/new songs get released first

Are you denying the fact that you've shifted your focus from the need anticipation for a new album, to post your grievances with the moment in time when you think the song lyrics were written and/or said songs were recorded?



/jarmo

Seems to me like he made an observation.  The rest of that is you putting words in his mouth.

There doesn't have to always be a boogeyman around every corner, Jarmo.

It seems like it's some kind of grievance. Looking for "issues" before hearing one single note or word from the album....

What happened to all the positivity and anticipation?



/jarmo

It keeps getting sidetracked by your projection and desire to make everything into a fight.

When is the album coming out? Is there a release date? Artwork? A tracklisting?

It's not a fight. It's a discussion. I thought you knew this since you keep coming here to discuss things. Maybe your idea of a discussion is for you to post what you think and have nobody respond. That kind of sites exist. Or if you prefer, get a diary.


If somebody posts his concerns about the lyrics to songs he hasn't heard yet, I'm curious why. I mean, this kind of issue goes for any music or bands. But as often is the case, GN'R fans keep looking for things to "worry about". Maybe all songs could be about partying (but not too late and on time), drugs and driving (hybrid) cars.  :hihi:




You won't like the release date, the artwork will upset you and the tracklisting isn't to your liking. I can see the future!  :o



/jarmo

He made the observation that letting shit sit around for 10 plus years dates it somewhat in terms not only its sound but also its impact if the lyrics are supposed to be about a moment in time that grows ever more distant.

Not one time did he add "so you just know its going to be terrible and I weep for the future".  YOU introduced that addendum to his comments. He never went there.

I asked a question. Very simple.

I don't see a problem with the lyrics being written 20 years ago, ten years ago, five years ago or today. You and him obviously do.


Like i said, great songs are timeless. Why don't you go there?
Was November Rain a worse song compared to Estranged? One was written years before the other.

I don't remember listening to those songs when I got the albums and thinking "Damn, this song was written a long time ago. I wish it wasn't so old".

Do you guys have "issues" with certain old GN'R songs that existed before GN'R did? Do you tell people who listen to Appetite that "you know, this song is so old. It existed before GN'R got together. I wish they wouldn't have put it on the album"?

Does that ever happen? Or is this yet another thing that only applies to the current band? I mean, it couldn't be, right? That's only people imagining things.... You're all a bunch of level headed people who always want the best for the band... :)


And if these points were never raised regarding previous albums, or they aren't issues to begin with, maybe somebody can inform me why. I'm sure I must have missed a clue somewhere to why this is different.

I guess you can always fall back on the "But it was only a few years" excuse. Even if you do, it wasn't "fresh"....


/jarmo

No one has said that but you.  For the third time now.

You are inventing stuff out of whole cloth to rail against. 

Why not just release a double album then when CD was finally released ? Whether or not you think the songs are dated or not... was it always the plan to hold on to songs for 20 years?

Makes you wonder

No nobody thought that about November Rain or Estranged... but GNR obviously debuted with Appetite..so we didn't know there were these gems lined up for the next at the time... making the situation now completely different... we know about these other songs that are in waiting

Cost, I suspect.  I guess you could have released 2 single discs at the same time like GNR and Springsteen did way back when.

Problem with the UYI albums is that they cleared they vault.  They left nothing back.  Its why there will never be a GNR Anthology, GNR rarities, or boxed set from those years.  If they did it, you've heard it.

Perhaps Axl didn't want to empty all the bullets in his gun at once.

So why is he bringing it up? That he thinks songs on Chinese Democracy are about a former girlfriend from years ago.

He made a point that he prefers songs written now to offer a glimpse into the present. I made a point that great songs are timeless. And it doesn't matter when they were written/recorded.

Since you keep going on and on with me, do you disagree?
Don't argue for the sake of arguing, try to post something with some substance instead of ignoring the GN'R parts of the posts.



Double albums are always considered a "risk".




Ok, I'll play along.

Let's assume you had no idea some of the AFD songs were "old" or that some the UYI songs were "old". So you enjoy them, you listen to them. Then you find out they weren't fresh. Does it make the songs worse? Is it gonna be on your mind when you listen to the songs? No way.

That's my whole point.





/jarmo

He write so others can place their own meaning to the song.


To me it is one of the highlights on CD, which imo had too much soft songs.

Presumably because they were done in the same session as the last album, which did have such songs.



Yes and no.  

I agree that a good song is a good song regardless.  But I would also say that it can sound dated, which can be said without it being some grave insult.

I believe I made this exact point with 'Shackler's Revenge'.  Good song, I like it, but sounds like something that might have come out 7-8 years prior.

Here's another example.  I liked both Van Halen and The Eagles most recent albums.  There are good songs on both that I really like.  However, they sound a bit dated because many of them were written 20 or more years ago.  They are also done in the same way the band always recorded.

So, yes, the songs are good.  What they aren't are all that cutting edge.  That's all.

Well it depends... If the next album comes out and I like them...great. Yeah it won't matter to me, plus I truly have never heard these songs... (never listened to the leaks)

But there is a difference in situations...its not that black and white. There is a huge difference in time... there was only a few years in between the time of first being written/recorded and release with November Rain and Estranged

with the current unheard songs... thats obviously not the case... so if somebody does have the opinion that the music sounds "dated" they have more of a leg to stand on.. they could also really enjoy the song and have that opinion

"I love the speech part (I don't want to lose HEART!!!) and I love the guitar solo that's played with it.  That solo gives the effect of something coming to a boil."

Woah, yeah I can totally see that.

Norway, that's a great point. I feel like songs in cd can be quite cryptic and universal, very open to interpretation.

I agree with Jarmo. I couldn't relate to Mortis' feelings about songwriting. I don't know what topical songwriting actually means but I'll be sure to look it up. There are a lot of great songs written about memories. As far as the songs having to be in the vault for so long, the end result as well as the reasons are not completely known but I am very happy with what has been brought into creation so far and see the long period of waiting as a good trade off for exceptional material.

I never got into looking for all these deep meanings about lyrics.

Some of my favorite songs of all time have preposterous nonsensical lyrics.  'Walk This Way', for instance.  Not exactly deep.

Yeah... it doesn't matter to me how old the songs are... I just question the strategy behind it... I know I know... thats frowned upon

You clearly think you are some expert in the music business and the band should cater to your every whim.  Just where do you get off?

Lyrics are neat, they are like the psychological aspect of a song. It's not important that one looks too far into them, but if they do and they find something they feel is deep or original it is always a plus.

Yeah I know DX, I done fucked up! Oh wait, you were talking about Jaeball haha.

haha...yep....

I also would like to add... that I even tho yesterday i stated this is a very important time for GNR imo, and things could go one way or the other depending on what happens... I do fully expect that the album will be released in the next 24 months

Axl saying it rather than Dizzy or DJ saying it gave me good hope

So, he brings it up because of that. But why? You don't either seem to get what I'm saying, or you're refusing to.

See below:




We are talking about lyrics. Not production. Or?

The original poster brought up the song lyrics being about a person who had a relationship with Axl a while ago. But then when you listen to the lyrics, it might be about almost anybody. Like any great songs.

Axl could write a song about his childhood today. Would that be an issue for the original poster? Maybe, maybe not.
The bottom line is, they're all songs about life. Mostly his life.

When you read a biography on somebody, the most interesting thing isn't always the ending, or the beginning. It's the in between.





That's your opinion. Once again, I'm talking about the subject of the song, or when it was recorded. Not the production of it.

You can record a song today and make it sound like it was done in 1972. Isn't technology amazing?



/jarmo

I guess.

But in this case, we know who its about.  And they broke up 16 years prior to the song coming out. 

This is the double edged sword of waiting "until its ready".  People hear it and think, my god, is this dude still hung up on a girl from 16 years ago?  Well, no, not really.  Its just that he sat on this thing so long, by the time he got it out, it seemed like ancient history.

None of that makes is a good or bad song though.  That comes down to how the song sounds, which I think speaks to your point.

There are more straw men here than a scarecrow convention here.

Firstly, I did not say that ''I preferred songs written x amount of time to the date of release''. I said, the process, by which songs are shelved for ten years before being released is a frustrating and illogical process which derails any sort of, creative rhythm. As I said, even if Axl releases everything tomorrow in a big boxset, he is going to want to tour for x amount of years so any songs written now, or next year, will not potentially be heard until 2025. And, presumably - if this album truly is CD2 - Ashba and BF can kiss goodbye to their songwriting credits.

You know, there is a logic to - write album, record album, promote and release same album, tour album, record next album, starting pattern again - the cycle Axl departs so much from. There is a reason why rock n' roll bands have followed this same pattern since the day rock n' roll was invented in the mid 1950s. It simply, makes sense. Bands when they do tour, tour off the back of a new release which reflects where they are at now. Setlists, artwork, can be coordinated around the new release. Axl has completely abandoned this cycle since he re-emerged in 1999 and as a consequence, his career is a mess. There are songs which were conceived in 1999 featuring completely different line-ups of Guns N' Roses sitting on shelves gathering dust as the compact disc market goes progressively belly-up! And nobody seems to know what is going on, not even his own band mates (just listen to Dizzy's ''people looking through the tapes'' comment). They seem as out-of-loop as we are!

The lyrics about relationships do strike a chord with me, he provides some neat insight into relationships, but I have never once thought "who is Axl singing this song about?" when it comes to those kinds of lyrics. It could very well be Stephanie Seymour or whoever, but it could also be some other person I've never even heard of as far as I know and basically it is just not important at all.

If people heard CD songs and thought "Oh man, Axl really misses so and so!", I think that's actually pretty damn funny.

Mortis Murphy, is Axl's career really a mess? It doesn't seem that way to me. I think if I was in his shoes and someone said my career was a mess I wouldn't know what else to do but laugh. The thing about judgment is that it implies vanity.

No. it's not a mess...just not where we all thought it would be.

No, you said:


Sounds similar.  : ok:

Unless you start arguing that songs recorded years ago can reflect GN'R now.... Which would be ironic.


Regarding the rest of your post and what other bands do, I'd like to get D-X to point out that no band wants to be like GN'R. So why compare GN'R to the rest....  :P




/jarmo

When Axl reemerged in 1999, if you said to him that ''he would have only one album out by 2014 and his more talented musicians would have departed'', I imagine he would have regarded it as a failure, also. Remember the 'trilogy' comment? ''18 songs and a bonus disc'' (quoting from memory)?

I like the situation of release - it does not reflect the song. Yes, I would have preferred to have walked into a store and bought CD in 2002 and not 2008, but the songs do not materially alter (although they do production wise but that is a separate argument).

Nobody's denying that most of us fans would've loved to been able to buy new GN'R albums yearly, every other year or whatever.  But it didn't happen.
Does it make the songs themselves worse? Not to me. Maybe to you it does because you want them to be... And if that's not the case, sorry. But you were the one bringing up this so called issue.



So out of the blue you bring up all these "issues" (?) you (will) have with the next GN'R album. It's kinda funny. How are we gonna believe that you can listen to those tracks with an open mind? You've already pretty much labeled it a mess and voiced your grievances on the production, lyrics and people involved.

Your review is pretty much done before we know anything about the album.



/jarmo

Probably how I'd put it as well.  He's still out there, still making some coin.  Earning a living, doing his thing.

But if you could ask 1999 Axl if this was the plan for the next 15 years, impossible to believe this was the answer he'd give you.

DX has said no other band would run this business like this. 

With an inexperienced management team and a standoffish relationship with anyone and everyone, up to and including their own fans.

Countless other bands would have LOVED to have the parameters this one had circa 1999 and see what they could have done with it.

Again, the straw man rears his head.

Really, it is hard to discuss this with you when you just paraphrase things I said, which I didn't even say!

The mess I referred to is not musically as such - as you said, I have not heard CD2. The mess is, sorting through god knows how many tracks, recorded ten years ago with completely different line-ups. The mess is, the current line-up not getting songwriting credits (I do not know that for certain but this could be the scenario if we are given cd2). You read and post these comments, Jarmo, made by Stinson, Dizzy, Fortus, Ashba. Everyone of these comments has people going through the old material and sorting the stuff to put out. These comments have been going on for about 3 years now. There is your mess.

Mortismuphy, you may want to brush up on your rock history some......for example this little band from England....
 Stones pulled songs from 1972 to put on an album released in 1981...the album did pretty well and no one complained then.


Tattoo You is an album primarily composed of outtakes from previous recording sessions, some dating back a decade, with new vocals and overdubs. Along with two new songs, the Rolling Stones put together this collection to have a new album to promote for their worldwide American Tour 1981/European Tour 1982 beginning that September. Guitarist Keith Richards commented in 1993:

"The thing with Tattoo You wasn't that we'd stopped writing new stuff, it was a question of time. We'd agreed we were going to go out on the road and we wanted to tour behind a record. There was no time to make a whole new album and make the start of the tour."[1]

Recording[edit]The album's associate producer, Chris Kimsey, who'd been associated with The Stones dating back to Sticky Fingers (1971) said Tattoo You "...came about because Mick [Jagger] and Keith were going through a period of not getting on. There was a need to have an album out, and I told everyone I could make an album from what I knew was still there."[1] He began sifting through the band's vaults: "I spent three months going through like the last four, five albums finding stuff that had been either forgotten about or at the time rejected. And then I presented it to the band and I said, 'Hey, look guys, you've got all this great stuff sitting in the can and it's great material, do something with it."[1]

Many of the songs consisted at this point of instrumental backing tracks for which vocals had not been recorded. Jagger said in a 1995 interview, "It wasn't all outtakes; some of it was old songs... I had to write lyrics and melodies. A lot of them didn't have anything, which is why they weren't used at the time ? because they weren't complete. They were just bits, or they were from early takes".[2] Despite the eclectic nature of the album, the Rolling Stones were able to divide Tattoo You into two distinct halves: a rock and roll side backed with one focusing on ballads.

Is the outcome really that bad? To you CD is "one album" but to me CD is "the album". It was worth the wait. Sometimes things don't turn out the way we planned them to but that doesn't necessarily mean the end results add up to a failure.

My dad is the same age as Axl. The fact that Axl is that old and still has enough ambition to undertake a project like CD (which sold four million copies), a follow up project, and countless tours is an absolute mystery to me. He's doing great.

I know, Neil Young has returned to old material also. The only difference being, five albums separate Tattoo You from 1972! The Stones in the interim did not just pile up all their songs on a shelf; they were releasing albums on a year-by-year basis.

tis true....

Hahaha

Yeah, that's their Frankenstein album.  Ever see the credits on all those songs?  They go on forever because they are from all sort of different years.

It all depends what you assume his answer was going to be.
I'm assuming your answer relates to the number of records released?




Straw this, straw that. I quoted you.




Let me explain this to you: If you have the opinion that something is a mess, or isn't to your liking, you're in the right frame of mind to give whatever it is a fair open minded chance?

Anonymous Internet person before album's release:
The process the album was made under is a mess. I prefer songs about right now, not songs written about people who were around years ago and then recorded by people who aren't in the band anymore.

Anonymous Internet person on album's release:
The process the album was made under is a mess. I prefer songs about right now, not songs written about people who were around years ago and then recorded by people who aren't in the band anymore.

Anonymous Internet person's album review: The process the album was made under is a mess. I prefer songs about right now, not songs written about people who were around years ago and then recorded by people who aren't in the band anymore. I love this album and the tracks.


This is what we're expecting! You'll forget your "issues". You'll forget that you didn't get Chinese in 2002. Right?






/jarmo

Redneck.. I appreciate your passion for Chinese Democracy ... I really do... but you just have to know you are fighting a lonely uphill battle with posts like this...You are certainly entitled to ur opinion... that's why they make so many different flavors of ice cream!

But you have to know for a lot of us CD isn't the "one album", and the process that lead to it has been a very long and sometimes dumbfounding experience.

Very true.

'Tattoo You' was something Mick threw together so they could tour.

And really, other than the 3 singles, what's remembered from that album? Not too much.

I have to agree.  Having a plan or intention and not having it work out the way you hoped is not failing.  It's life.

Ali

How can anyone not regard the process a ''mess'' when they have been ''sorting through the tracks'' for three years - New GN'R's words, not mine?

Ha.. one would think after all these years Axl would know exactly which 12 songs or whatever he wants right?

You can't just throw context completely out the window.

Jarmo tells me there are nobody indie bands that would love to be where GNR is 2014.  And now redneckrudy with the example of Axl and his Dad.

But...without trying to be flippant, are we really comparing a band on the level of a Guns N' Roses to indie bands and our dads?

In the context of a big time band, one of the biggest of their time, its absolutely impossible to call the past 15 years a screaming success.  I'll agree it hasn't been a total fiasco.  But its an ultimate case of missed opportunity and wasted time.

If your barometer for success is simply not falling completely on your face or dropping off the face of the earth, well, that's one low bar, no?  Espeically when you started with a leg up on the world.

You'd have to think so.

Maybe you are wavering on 4 songs for the last 2 spots, but I think you know the backbone of what you want released.

This apparently takes years.

Couldn't have said it better.



Well Dgen-MurphyX.
You keep skipping parts of my posts. Too many words to read?  :)

Where did they say this process has been on going daily for three years?




/jarmo

I'd start the clock at his interview.  That gives him over half a year, and then however long into next.

People have written, recorded and released songs in that time frame.  We are talking picking from a list of stuff that's done.

If you are serious about it, you get that done.  If you aren't, you don't.

The reason I am skipping parts of your post is because you are putting words into my mouth that I did not write. I am not wasting my time defending statements I did not make.

These statements by Fortus etc have been appearing for approx three years. You should know as you have posted many of them. They all follow the, ''yeh, we are just sorting out the recordings, what to put on there (the album)'', line. This very thread was instigated by such a statement, by Dizzy.

Depends what you're fighting against.
If you're trying to keep going when everybody in the band quit and wanted it to end, then being active in 2014 isn't so fucking bad.






I quoted you and told you why I personally believe that the issues you brought up will make you one lousy candidate for a person who will enjoy the next album with an open mind.

Did you post anything to make me believe otherwise? No.
If you can post things based on assumptions, so can I.

 



Yes.
They've made comments like that. Doesn't mean it was happening at that exact moment. Axl made his comment earlier this year. For reference.



/jarmo

Jarmo, I believe Axl's creative process has been a mess since new gnr began. The onus is on you to prove me wrong. Just what bit of evidence are we using,

- Going through the recordings for the best part of three years by certain unspecified 'people'

- Ashba's 10 or so demos that he showed to Axl (now we seem to be back to, CD2 - does anyone know if this will be new songs or cd leftovers?)

- Axl's trilogy statements (didn't happen), 18 songs and a bonus set of songs (didn't happen), second industrial record (didn't happen)

- losing band members who were sick of the whole process and voiced their concerns publicly (Buckethead. Possibly BF - but again, nobody knows on that latter score?)

- replacing tracks by said bandmembers with overdubs by new band members.

If you were going to come up with a game plan on how, not, to record an album, this would probably be it. I then still stand by comment that the whole thing is a mess.

You keep going around in circles trying to prove some point.
Good for you.

Still, didn't address anything I said.....



/jarmo

The judging with an open mind' thing? Whenever I buy a new album, I will stick it in my cd player and judge it as I would, any album.

And how much research do you do on the subject before listening?

In this case, you've done a lot and already labeled it a mess.


Are you gonna get the AC/DC album? Does the mess with the drummer's legal issues or the sad fact that one member is gone affect your opinion on the album? Would you bring up these issues when talking about the album with somebody? Maybe you've already made up your mind that it's not a real AC/DC album...


There's a point in this. Don't worry.
Which is, you can always attach a lot of baggage to anything in life. Even something like a rock album. Often it will affect your opinion in one way or another. Will you admit it? Most wouldn't.

So your comments remind me of somebody going to a nice restaurant thinking "This can't be good, it's not McDonald's". They can then either go "I liked it, it was amazing. But it wasn't McDonald's" or "It sucked! I prefer my favorite, McDonalds".... ;) That notion that it's not their favorite restaurant plays a role...


/jarmo

Correction, I labelled the process a 'mess.' Jarmo, an antonym for 'mess' would be, 'order'. Can you seriously describe the making of Chinese Democracy 1 & 2, well ordered?

We all know the making and release of the album wasn't easy. But it came out. That's good isn't it?
Yet when somebody points this out, it's met with ridicule and comments about low bars.


We didn't have to suffer through the process itself. Well, some of you probably did suffer judging by some of the posts...
Anyway, stop looking at yourself for once and imagine how it must've been for Axl.

I'm expecting a reply about how Axl chose to make everything this way....

Anyway, you just keep bringing up from GN'R's past like we didn't know anything. So am I wrong in assuming these things bother you in some way? Or what's the reason for bringing these things up over and over again?


Also, nothing you said made me reconsider what I assume about you. :)



/jarmo

I think most of the problem seems to rest with Axl.  I do not in other words believe all the record company 'Out Ta Get Me' stuff.  There are too many comments, from people like Moby, Robin Finck even, about hundreds of vocal-less DATS lying around - or vain glorious attempts to re-record Appetite for Destruction. He seems to work at an impossibly slow and illogical pace.

Brian May claimed to have heard multiple albums of material with vocals in late 1999-early 2000. Is Brian credible in your world? It is safe to assume Axl has a mountain of potential material in the vaults...whether he releases it or not is another question.

Then it is academic.

and here is the Brian May quote from 5-10-2000....

There are many many people, who've spoken to journalists, who've have played with Axl over a number of years now, who have laid claims recently that the only one track that Axl has ever laid down a vocal part for is "Oh My God", which is obviously featured on the Schwartzenager film, "End Of Days", but you're saying there are more vocal parts then?

Brian: Oh yeah - there's a whole album of vocal parts - in fact there's two albums' worth that they've got there, at least. Um, they played me EVERYTHING. Axl actually sat down and MADE ME listen to everything (laughing) and there's some wonderful stuff there. Yeah.

the no vocals stuff is urban legend.....but, I am quite sure there are tons of instrumental ideas laying around as well.

He may not have chosen it, but he's been extremely derelict on the proactive front to combat some of the obstacles.

The ultimate dichotomy of the man, in my view, is how he chooses to portray himself as this unshakeable warrior what going to show the world what's what on his terms...yet spend so much time throwing up his hands in frustration and pouting.

How do you reconcile that?

Agreed.  Ambitious ideas are fine, but there comes a point where you just get on with it.

How do you know this?

Look at what GN'R's been against. "It's not GN'R", "Axl's not gonna show up", "the album's never coming out" etc etc...

Yes, you can go on talk shows and talk about thees things. Doesn't mean peoples' opinions will change.



Your assumption.



/jarmo

He's free to prove me wrong at any time.  And time is a-wastin'.

Grounded in interviews however,

"'I found it difficult to chart a linear development of the songs that they were working on,' recalls Moby. 'They would work on something, it would be a sketch for a while, and then they'd put it aside and go back to it a year, six months later. He became a little bit defensive when I asked him about the vocals. He just said that he was going to get to them eventually,' Moby continues." (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

"The record just needed a lead vocal and a mix. [...] If Axl had recorded vocals, it would have been an absolutely contemporary record in 1999." (James Barber, Poptones, 10/16/05)

"[Youth] had "four or five" spells working with Rose in [1998]. [...] 'I went to his house and we started writing songs, strumming guitars in the kitchen', says Youth. 'That was a major breakthrough because it got him singing again which he hadn't done for a long time.' (Q Magazine, 05/01)

"He hadn't been singing for around 18 months. I think the record had turned into a real labour. He was stuck and didn't know how to proceed, so he was avoiding it." (Youth, The Times, 03/18/05)

He did the vocals last.

 Axl CHOSE to be GNR in name... Axl CHOSE to always take stage late...Axl CHOSE to dissolve their original partnership...Axl chose everything that he has.... did he intend to take as long as he did with the album...I'm sure not...but his decisions directly lead it

We've beaten all of this to death a thousand times...

We are all thankful that Axl has continued on... maybe we don't all agree that he has gone about it the best way, but it's true..it's his life.

I'm hopeful to hear new songs eventually...even if they are twice as old as my kid  ;D

Indeed.

But think of it like a debate team.  You know, where a topic is picked, and one person is given the pro side, and the other the con side.

In this case, the topic would be his career over the past 15 years.  The positions are "maximized his chances" and "kind of fucked things up".

Which position would you hope to draw and defend?  And there is no third option of "it's not for me to say".  That's cop out bullshit.

DX, you talk about context but some seem to lose sight of the situation surrounding the creation of CD. Imagine if Led Zeppelin broke up half way through their career and someone tried to rebuild the band from the ground up. If they managed to release even one legitimate Led Zeppelin album after that I would be impressed. 

I can't help comparing him to my dad, they actually look really similar now that Axl is a little older haha.

If Robert Plant continued on as Led Zeppelin.... he would have been blasted the same way Axl has been....don't think that was ever a consideration for him tho..... guy wont even play with led zeppelin for a billion dollars....lol

Guys, come on.

Arguing this over will not make the next album come any sooner.

We all are anticipating this album I think, otherwise we wouldn't be checking this thread :)

Let's talk about what we're looking forward to!!

I, along with many others I guess, am excited to potentially get to hear The General - assuming it'll be on the record. I love the intro from the 06 shows. Am I right in thinking Beltrami was involved with this track? That guy is a legend.

Hahaha

Is that guy dug in, or what?  He just will not budge.

And I often say Axl is the only hardhead that wouldn't reunite for the dollars.  I guess he's not alone.

Their situations are somewhat similar... even tho Plant doesn't hate Page the way Axl hates Slash... he won't work with him for a variety of reasons, despite the absurd money...but i'm sure if he was living on the streets it would be different

Of course neither one of them tours as Led Zeppelin presently...and they have both said it wont be LZ without the three of them as a whole, so I guess that's different ha

I think we all know this is impossible. Have you ever admitted to being wrong?

Even if Axl put out a box set tomorrow, you'd still be annoyed about something like the "wasted time".
Just like some still bring up things that upset them in 2002.... :)



Yeah, that intro was interesting.
Makes you wonder what the song is like. Considering the piano intro Axl used turned out to be Prostitute....



/jarmo

^yeah - I just love the use of orchestral arrangements in guns tracks.

Just listen to tracks such as TWAT and Prostitute - amazing songs.

The arrangements, for me, work so well with Guns songs and add depth, complementing the 'ballads' perfectly.

Hell, I'd applaud the move.  You'd applaud the move.

How about if he sat around and did nothing?

Well, I'd wonder what the plan was.  You'd applaud the move. 

02-gnr was so pwn. Best gnr-version imo.

The most different, musically, I think.  I think the 2006 version was a big tighter, but not as interesting. 

Which is all Buckethead, really.  Since the relunch, he's the only one I felt had that real "it" factor to stand alongside Axl.

And he's by far the best guitarist besides Slash.  His play on the album is excellent.

06 (say hi to Bumblefoot) is arguably the best live-era. And yes @ Bucketehad.

The bootlegs I've been listening to lately are all 2006.  Solid, solid shows.

Actually there is still a bit of hatred there. Plant never forgave Page for not attending his son's funeral. Page stated that Plant told him not to come due to unwanted media coverage of the funeral. So there is a bit of discrepancy. Unlike the Axl/Slash feud, I can completely understand Plant's POV.

Wow, didn't know that.  That's rough.

I am a huge fan of Buckets work on this album.  I wouldnt just say his play on the album was great.  His guitar writting on the album was some of the best guitar writting I have ever heard

If Axl sits around doing nothing, and that's what he wants to do, then I respect that choice.
You on the other hand will spend eternity whining about it and even when he'd stop doing nothing, you'd remind everybody about that one time.

I've told you before, there's plenty of reasons why people chose to "do nothing".



And one of the reasons why we keep discovering new things in the songs even after a few listens.




/jarmo

No, I'd wonder what the plan was while nothing happened.  As I said.

Leave what other people would do and say if something actually happened to those other people.  They have a better handle than you do, sport.

Your so called wondering comes off as whining to others. Guy/sport/champ/dude.




/jarmo

Your premise is ridiculous on its face. 

No one beats the drum harder for a new album than me, but I'm going to be unhappy with a BOX SET of material?  Ludicrous.

But you want to take your little ill conceived shot because it just steams your bean I don't sit in silence like a good little boy while time is wasted.  Well, if you're mad, you're just going to have to get glad again.  Not sure what else to tell you.

I'm a fan of a rock singer.  I'm not a resident of North Korea living under the rule of Kim Jong Un.  I don't share your fetish for obedience. 

Maybe you should remind yourself of this more often.



Neither am I.  :-*

But I also don't live in fantasy land where I'm constantly under a cloud of rain feeling annoyed/frustrated/whatever you call it because of my favorite band.




/jarmo

I always interpret X's posts as mere, discussions. There is enough positivity there also (NB his praise for the 2006 tour) that demonstrates his opinion is somewhere in the middle on new gnr which is the same for most human beings on just about any subject that could potentially ever be raised in democratic societies - well, most human beings! And you have to admit, Jarmo, that it is his 'discussions/whining' (whatever you care to call it) are, by far, the most active areas on the forum. Without his input, the forum would merely be a bunch of ''happy birthday__(insert new gnr member)'' threads and (none) news items, i.e. the new Guns N' Roses equivalent of Pravda.

It's easy to forget that the person who claim they are positive have also said other things.....





/jarmo

You are the only one that's ever questioned it.  Thus making you the outlier.



Yes, yes, your posts are your personal opinion and you don't speak for anyone else.  That whole bit.  

Gotcha.

The only real compliance is 100% compliance. 

Keep it real up in the field.

You gotta talk about something.  At least that's how I figure it.

How much can you really do with HAPPY CHRIS DAY?

It's difficult to take people who are concerned about their online image seriously...  : ok:


/jarmo

Rock bands are not a communist republic. Fans - usually - do not conduct themselves in a manner you advocate, i.e. ''for or against''. Pick any fan of any band and they will go, ''yes, that album was shit, and that album was good''. The Stones? How many Stones fans will defend Emotional Rescue? Metallica? St Anger and Napster-gate?

And yet nobody forced you to come to this site.

The same shit, different year. "I don't like you telling me my post is wrong" or "I don't like being told to explain myself".
Too fucking bad.



/jarmo

You are the human record scratch, Jarmo.  You grind everything to a halt.

You've done it in two different threads just this morning. 

I do not follow? You have created a 'Guns N' Roses' free fan forum. Presumably some people are going to stumble on the place (perhaps via google) and start posting on the thing. What was the point in creating it if you did not want this to happen?

You do not follow? Let me explain this to you.

Not every fan site is gonna suit every fan. Some like to whine as much as they want, some prefer something else.



This happens when people like yourself don't feel like answering simple questions.  :-*


/jarmo

If you accept that the persons alluding to here (which I am sure includes me) are 'whining'. I do not. I see them as discussions.

Jarmo, I do not mean to remind you of this but this is not exactly the most active forum these days. If your 'whining people' leave, you are literally left with birthday greetings threads and posts dedicated to these completely pointless classic rock polls which gnr get entered into. I mean there is nothing at all happening in the gnr world to fill the deficit with bucket loads of saccharine positivity, that, asking your 'whiners' to leave, would create. All of the interesting areas of discussion now are centered around, X's posts. And do not act a shrinking violet here as you expand a tremendous amount of energy whining about the 'whiners'. You secretly like these debates just as much as anyone.

Just think of the time we could save if already flowing conversations in a groove didn't come to a complete standstill so we could talk about what horrible "fans" we all are.

And yes, that's "fans" in quotes.  You know, because we suck so much.

I have made these exact point several times.

And I can tell you, he's the only message board moderator I've ever come across that seems put out by traffic at his site.  I asked him point blank if he'd rather entire days went by with no new posts, and he told me he would not care because he's "not about the clicks".

Its times like this you can sort of see why he never criticizes GNR's business plan.

Ok. I did not know that!

Seriously. Say something new and original instead of complimenting the "It's not GN'R" crowd...  :P

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing. If you can actually stand for what you say. But often, this happens. Your buddies who like to post about how things suck start complaining about me, the way I've chosen to run the site and whatever else.

It's the usual routine. The only thing missing here is somebody throwing a fit and calling me some unoriginal names.



You don't like things that you can't change. That to me seems like a waste of energy. Maybe if you changed the attitude, things wouldn't look so bad. But no, it's easier to keep whining than to do that...  And here we are. Again.
 


/jarmo

Now that is not completely truthful, is it?

He doesn't mind when we disagree with each other.  Just not him.

And Jarmo, we all know and accept how you run the site.  We come hre every damn day.  We are obviously OK with it.  But when you cut off an ongoing conversation to talk about how much we suck as people, then the topic tends to make its way back to the forefront.

Not saying you have to agree with us (which will never happen) but you have to take just a wee bit of accountability for these detours you keep putting us on.  Does any conversation about you or the site's rules come up unless you are here lecturing us?

We'd much rather talk about GNR than about how much you dislike us.

Yes it is. I don't care what you think.
I can't change you. To think otherwise would be naive and stupid.

I don't think you paid attention to the second sentence. If you come here to post your "honest opinion", and assuming it's based facts, not only personal assumptions tainted by your frustrations and getting what you "need", then be prepared to explain it. What makes you think that? How can you be sure that's correct? Did you ever think of the other side of the argument? Etc. etc. etc. This seems like too much to handle for some. They see these fan sites as a simple way to be somebody without any need for any major thinking on their part. This isn't your blog. It's a discussion forum.


I can choose what kind of crowd I would like to surround myself with, I can choose what kind of fan site I want to run. And the kind of site I want to run is the kind of site that I won't feel embarrassed about.

Simple.


/jarmo

Well, considering that in order for someone to have an "honest opinion" it needs to come accompanied by a signed affidavit from Axl himself, that's a rather convenient way to shut people down.

Your typical "be perepared to explain it" taunt is somewhat hollow, because we weren't actually in the room with the man, so we should just shut it.

You're making generalizations to try to discredit what I said. I other words, it's almost like you're not interested in real discussions with differing opinions!



/jarmo

Its actually not like that at all, but I guess that's where we'll leave it.

Some "people" are shocked that fans come to fan sites to have fun and get as well as share news about GNR, and don't care to read the dreary whining day in and day out.

The same people also feel free to take potshots at all things GNR, but want to call foul when it is handed back to them.

I love the way this forum is run, and I'm of the opinion that quality is more important that quantity, why have pages upon pages of toxic conversation and arguements? There are other places that specialize in that sort of tripe and garbage.

I choose to come here for the atmosphere, and I enjoy reading posts from Jarmo, Gypsy and Rudy imparticular :love:

Thanks for the shout out Emily, you've always been a real sweetheart to me. You and a few others (DX, Gypsy Soul, Jarmo in alphabetical order) helped me feel welcome around here when I was new to the place and I really appreciate that. I'll do my best to pay the favor forward to newcomers whenever I spot them. :peace:

Was Or Was Not Chinese Democracy released (sonically) the way Axl wanted it to be?  And if not, exactly why?

Perhaps it dont really matter anymore...I think I oughta listen to that vinyl again...I don't know if I ever did?  Where my cans (that's slang for headphones)...wtf

I remember my disc seemed to be messed on a couple of tracks.  annoying

Is this in reference to the loudness wars I keep hearing about?  I have no idea what that actually means.  From everything I have read though a less happy with the final mastering of chineasee.   After that much time working on a piece it would be a shame that everything wasn't 100 percent to his liking.   I did read some place that he want a few art work changes or something but by then the album was in the studios hands.   

I don't recall Axl having issues with the way the album sounded. The album had some alternative artwork that he wanted released. Initially Best Buy listed three different covers for the album when pre-ordering started.

There were issues, that several fans reported, with the vinyl issue of the album. There were inner groove distortion present on that one. That's annoying.

Also, regarding the loudness wars, Chinese Democracy is not suffering from that. Here's an article about it: http://www.gatewaymastering.com/gateway_LoudnessWars.asp



/jarmo

The alternative artwork was absolutely perfect for that album. It is a shame it never got released.  :crying:

Was one of the vinyl issues parts that skipped? I bought mine new online and it seemed to have a couple skips on it.

CD came with an awfull promotion, no video-clip, and I think I heard Better just 2 times on radio. And I think those 14 tracks on the ?lbum are - MAYBE - the strongest ones from all of what they have, IMO. We?ve got 5 years (untill now, IF they decide to release the next ?lbul in 2015) of touring, fan made videos, live videos by fans, good, bad and awfull performances by Axl (the man still got it, but face it, he doesn?t have 25 years old anymore, and I absolute understand that, and even think it?s crazy the 3 hours setlist).
If we get another ?lbum in the future, take all of what I wrote above as a miracle, if we get close to 50% of that.

What did you mean by there strongest songs, did you mean strong for the radio or just there strogest in general.   I have a feeling that with the supposed 3 albums worth of recorded material and the hodge podge that was the recording process that the next albums would be very simililar in quality.  Who u is fine with me.   Also I remeber reading years ago that axl even invisioned a sorta trilogy with some of these songs.   Not sure which ones.    Also til wasn't even supposed to be on this album until they convinst axl on it.   And I am glad they did that song is beautiful.   Just goes to show you thiugh sometimes even what the band dosnt think should make it turns out to be gold

In regards to the 3 hr concerts and axl getting older.   Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of the length of the shows and I feel it is a total treat and a true money worth experience   But if the time of the shows was a problem.  I would cut out the guitar solos and drum solos.    Also would only do one cover song per show.     This would cut the show down to the two hr mark.   Save the 3hr+ plus shows for special ocasians   Or when they come to my home town!! 

The solo's give Axl a needed breather in between songs... always been that way

I am with you on the covers tho...don't need em, particularly the ones that were never recorded by GNR

In general. Axl said that a lot of the unreleased material the "old fans" probably won?t like, or will not accept right away, and I think he?s talking about songs like Silkworms, or an album like Oh My God.
I?m not saying that we won?t hear good songs, I really like the new band and Chinese Democracy, and I think Axl one of the great artists of this generation, but CD is the closest that we will get if you want an ?lbum like AFD or UYI. And I?m not saying that we should expect a new AFD album, I?m just saying that we will hear songs that could fit on CD kind of album, than other GNR period, if they decide release those unreleased CD songs already recorded.
Amazes me that we, the fans, didn?t get any "the making of of CD" kind of thing, any official video clip, any NOTHING than "here?s the album, go get it" by the band or the record company. Seems like no one cared, no one gave a shit about. At least they toured, toured and toured, for 6 years and counting

There seems to be some ideas going around that the best of the CD era tracks have already been used up but I don't buy that one bit. I guess only time will tell, but I'd bet that the next album will be even better than CD (if that's even possible). Axl has had time to reflect on CD and has all the experience of creating CD behind him now so I think it's only natural that the next release will take things to another level.

But its my understanding that everything is recorded....  I know its years later and people have years more experience, but if everything is already recorded, I would just release it...  Personally, I would like to just hear the original players on the music that wrote the parts, that were good enough for all of us when CD fist came out..  As much as I like the current form of guns, I would prefer them not to redub any of the tracks.   Just release what is recorded and then write some new material with this new band.

I could really care less about who does the parts or what era the songs are from. Everyone that was ever in Guns is a pretty badass musician! Whatever works for Ax man at this point, I'm happy with it.

I think this is a pretty closed mined / blind eyes opinion.   In my opinion it is also a little disrespectful to the musicians that were involved in the cd recording process.   It is more than just playing parts. As you stated.   It's about writing music.  And to me the writing of the music/melodies is just as important as the lyrics are.   I have so much respect for what the musicians that were involved in cd did.  I would like to hear more of that.  In the attended form.  Not re-recorded by musicians that never wrote it.   Don't get me wrong I like the current formation of guns.  I don't have a problem with some of the players playing live songs they never wrote.   However I would like to give this current version the own voice by writing new music and for any unleased music to be released as I'd by the artists that wrote it. 

Don't the facts show that your above statement is actually the closed minded/blind eye/disrespectful opinion since the final product, the Chinese Democracy that was released to the public six years ago, was a copulation of material (music/lyrics/etc.) written over almost the entire history of band including people who were either no longer in the band (prior to even Bucket & Robin) or were "studio" members (for lack of a better term) or people who weren't even members of GNR and also the fact that parts of CD were re-recorded to include Bumble & Frank?

It seems obvious to me that the "intended form" has always been (as redneckrudy stated), Axl's vision.

If anyone is being disrespected in the current structure, its the guys actually in the band, isn't it?

The ones being told to go wait in the corner, because Axl would rather release songs recorded 10 years ago by people that want nothing to do with him.

Hire him for what? 
The FACTS totally disproved his argument.


You're such a broken record.  We've had this discussion over and over and over again.
FIVE of the eight current members were a part of the writing and recording of those songs too!!!
Dj and Frank have never said anything to indicate they have issues with the writing and/or recording process.
Bumblefoot is the only one who has expressed an opinion that differs from the rest of the band.

Who are these "people that want nothing to do with" Axl??  :confused:

We all know thats its AXls vision and we wont hear anything until Axl releases it...  I support that statement so much, I feel he is the only one out of the Original line up that could continue the legacy which is Guns N Roses.  I think the except anything Axl gives us line, as down right silly though...    Sure I will be happy with it, but I dont think its the best.  Sort of like your fav sporting team.  They can do things wrong and you can call them on it, still means you are a fan.

So if Axls vision has changed and he wants the CD recordings re-worked, with the current line up, I will be happy with that and accept it.  Its not what I want though, or what I think is best.  However that is my vision not Axls.   And no one really cares about TheBaconmans vision haha.

But if anyone did....  Like I said, release what is already recorded.  From what I hear/read almost 3 albums worth still sitting on the shelfs.  I feel the artists on the CD recordings did such a great job.  In Axls vision, I beleave some of tracks on the album may go down as some of the greatest pure guitar rock songs ever.  Out of respect to the artists that wrote the music and to the fans for waiting, I would just release the music as is.

That being said, I would love to hear music written by this current band as well, in any form.

Why is bad for a fan of the band to want as much new music as possible??  

 I would also love the current band to tour and put there own spin on the above released songs written durring the CD recordings.   Then you get the best of both worlds.  We get the unreleased CD recordings as is.  And we also get the current line ups version of them, which could be used for a live concert recording album or whatever...    


  

#1) That's a joke from 'Seinfeld'.

#2) What facts?  He has an opinion different from yours.  Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to it, but it sure doesn't mean your opinion is labeled "fact" and his is labeled "wrong".  Come on now.



Hey, I'm a fan that just wants some new songs for Axl to sing.  Provided anything is ever actually released, god willing, I win no matter what.

But if I'm DJ?  If I'm Ron?  I'm curious why the guy that runs the band I'm in has not shown one iota of interest in what I might bring to the table in 5-6 years.  And how if I try and raise the point, I'm told "nah, we're good.  I already got these other songs by other guys".  And if I ask when that might be so I can get a crack, I'm told 6 years later he's "starting to look at things int that regard".  Not sure that makes me feel like most valued employee that ever lived.



Bucket and Robin.  Unless their leaving the fold was actually a vote of confidence in the whole endeavor.

Or in the case of Bucket, refusing to even talk about several years of work he did is some sort of reflection of what a ball he had.

These are the guy the current guys in the band playing all the shows can't bump out of the way to get Axl's ear.  Those guys.

I havent really figured out this whole quote feature so bare with me, or the spell check either haha.

But ya I agree I would hire me as well.  They had a buckethead, why not a Baconman

Dude, I've been making this argument for 13 months now.  It couldn't fall on deafer ears.



I'm right with you.  

Mainly, because this is the band I am claiming I follow.  As it is now, I follow a bunch of guys that play other people's stuff.  I would hope to one day get to a point I could tell someone I like what DJ or Ron does, not that I like how DJ and Ron play Buckethead and Slash solos

But, that ain't happening.  Any next album we might ever get won't be done by the guys onstage.  And that's just life in the big city.

Let's hear a demo!

If my response to your other post came across as a personal attack, I apologize.  It was not my intent.  But I do again want to point out that what we all hear on CD was not ONLY written by those members you appear to be ONLY crediting.
 
Of course it's not bad.  It's the one thing we can agree on.
 
Again, we're in agreement.

Again not sure about this quote feature, but I am working night shift tonight so I am sure I will figure it out.

In regards to who I credited in being in on the CD recordings.....   I am not sure who I listed, other than saying I loved the work done by Bucket and Robin...   I am well aware of who was involed in the recroding process who is in the current band and who isnt...  And I would love to hear all those involeds work.  Which as you stated is a good portion of the current band.   

I wouldnt like for Frank to go in and re-record all of Brains work, or anything else.   leave Tommys work alone, Pauls, Chris's, all the engeners and techs work.  Leave it all alone, and just release what you have.   Then tour with whatever the current band is and play the shit out of it.

I wish I can find the right words to show how what you are saying in this part that I quoted is the point that the final product was a collaboration of so many different elements.

I am in no way trying to diminish the contributions by Bucket and Robin.
I am only trying to point out that it was Axl's vision that brought both Bucket and Robin into the process along with everyone else including those you mentioned.

"Leave it all alone" was never a part of the process due to all the known and unknown extenuating circumstances.  And Axl's vision had to evolve along with all those extenuating circumstances.
 

The only reason I am saying to "leave the work alone", is because it is supposed to be done!  If that is the case, just release it.  We just cant always say, its Axls vision and we get what we get, and all that silly stuff.  If there is recorded material ready to go, let me hear it.  Call me a greedy fan or whatever, but I am a fan and as one I want as much material as possible to enjoy.

Who knows what the future of guns will bring in the form of, band memebers, new material recorded, tours, videos, etc...   But from what I have heard there is a ton of stuff already recorded, that could be released....   I would love that.

I dont want to keep defending on here how much of a fan of this current line up I am.  They are not my fav line up of guns, but either is the early 90s.   That shouldnt even matter...   

I would love to hear what DJ could come up with on a newly recorded album with guns, that would be great!!!!

I would not want to hear him, re-record work already written by other musicians in the studio.

But, if it did happen...   If for some reason in Axls vision he decided he wanted all the parts rewritten by the current band now.   And that got released. I would still buy it and support it and like it.   Its just not what I would do.  Even if after they re-recorded everything and for whatever reason, we even got another turn over in the band with new players and he got them to re-record all these songs another time.   I would still support it.   I just find it very silly if the music is done release it and then move on to the next project

Eve

As I see it, the problem with this (your) argument is what "done" means.
As you yourself pointed out, after the musicians are "done" with recording their parts, all the techs and mixers and mastering people step in and add their mojo.

Eight peoples' "done" doesn't mean "done" when it comes to releasing an album.

For me done is........  When a song is both written musicly and lyricly

When all the steps to writting a song are complete I consider it done.  Any other contributions from the studio....   techs, engeners, do not count towards my done.  as they have nothing to do with the writting

haha, I have no idea why it says I signed the one msg above as Eve.   lol   This is one weird interface

But you do realize that it can't be released until AFTER the techs/engineers/lawyers/label/etc. all do their part, right?
Plus, as "silly" as it may seem to you and some others, bottom line is Axl does (and IMO should) have the final say as to when "done" is truly "done"

Unfortunately for some, today Axl's not feeling "done" but please feel free to check back tomorrow or whenever in the future and I'm sure he'll let us know ....... maybe.  :P


Sorry but your post was "done" so now and forevermore you are Eve.

j/k  ;)

Blame admin.  :-X

Don't get me wrong. I like the name eve. I just rather use my previous unreleased version hAha

And don't forget you asked my version of "done" meant and I answersd to what I consider "done" to mean in context to writing a song

This was not my opinion on what I think is "done" in regards to the cd unreleased recordings.   As any other fan I truely have no idea what is done other than axl and members of the band saying they have recorded many many many songs.   Now if you were to ask me what guns had that they were sitting on.  And if I was just going to guess.   I would say they are sitting on hours of recordings that hat need to be mastered and released and just arnt.   That is just my guess.   I would also just guess that the only reasn. These songs are not released is because Axl dosnt want to.   That's just a guess though.  And ya not really negative as its his vision right.   Again if there is a lot more work going I t this mAterial I consider done just by guessing and reading interviews I appoligize for being greedy and impatient   But if they are sitting on all this material that is just ready to be mastered   I want t hear it.   

Plus then everyone can move on!!!   Write even more music with this great current line up!   Then us as fans get tons of stuff!

"Writing a song" is a far cry from "done".

I asked your version of "done" in the context of you saying this:

Ok well I made a mistake with what you were asking me, but now you have both versions of "done".   What I consider "done" it terms to a song and what I "think" is "done" on the CD recordings.  haha, I have never debated done or used so many quotes before, but I  like it

It is your opionion that writting a song is a far cry from done.  I think writting the music and lyics and melody is the hardest thing there is when it comes to aong.  and once that is fisihed a song really is done.  The tech work and engener work, while tough, is not a part of the song writting process.  You go to school for that stuff and really anyone that has gone to said school can do the audio tech work and studio work required to put a "done" song on a album.  I am not including producing in this, as that in itself is its own art form

I would say the hardest part to any song is the writting the music, melodys and lyrics, wih all parts equal.  If it wasnt the hardest, anyone could do it.  MOST of the other stuff, all be it hard, can be done via experience or via schooling...

I don't really even know what I am arguing about here anyways.   If there is music that is already recorded let's hear it.  Now I dnt want to debate what my defenition on "recorded" is.   Come on. 

Also don't take my above post to think I am taking away from all the hard work many different individuals out into CD or any other form of music out there.   I just have great appreciation for the artists work in writing the music and lyics and melody.  I want to hear more from the cd recordings.   Not less or nothing at all.  Mb if I never would of heard there was a ton of songs "finished".  (My new "done"), I wouldn't be waiting to hear them.   But axl himself is the one who said they have recorded a ton of songs.   Mb if he just said here is your 12 songs this is all u get till I give you more stuff and don't worry if there is anything else.  I wouldn't be asking to hear it.  But whatever. Haha.  I will be happy with what I get.   In fact I will be happy with nothing if that was to happen as well.     I would however be even happier if I got what I wanted haha

I had some time to kill here at work tonight so I went back and read that revolver interview that Axl did this year to see if I was missing something or miss read something he was quoted as saying.   So in it he clearly says that guns has nearly 2 more albums worth of material that was recorded durring the cd recordings.  That they also had some remixes recorded as well.  I also Remeber reading a while back that brain was working back in la on remixes.    He said they have worked on these recordings and have written some new things and pretty much have what he was calling the second half of chinease.  Now that's even more than my definition of "done".   So it sounds really like for a while stuff could of been released mb not in axle vision though   But now it sounds like he has worked on those songs and they are "done".   So.....    What am I missing here     

David "Gus" Griesinger of BackstageAxxess.com recently conducted an interview with GUNS N' ROSES, THE DEAD DAISIES and HOOKERS 'N' BLOW keyboardist Dizzy Reed. You can now watch the chat below. A couple of excerpts follow (transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET).

On the status of the next GUNS N' ROSES studio album:

"Last I heard, there's a lot of music that has been recorded, a lot of stuff that's done, a lot of stuff that's almost done, and I think it's just a matter of picking out which songs are gonna come out in the next phase. And last I heard, that's what was happening. The main thing is, when it's ready to come out, it'll come out."

On whether the next GUNS N' ROSES album will consist of new songs or music that is left over from the "Chinese Democracy" sessions:

"There's a lot [of material]. You can call it leftovers, but since no one's heard it, technically it's new material. But there's stuff that's been recorded and conceived since then as well. But it's fantastic music, and I really hope it gets out, 'cause people need to hear it. It's great stuff."

On his long-awaited solo album:

"I'm still in the process of mixing my record finally. I tracked 12 songs over about a two-year period, but it's been about four years. I just kind of put it on the backburner, 'cause I couldn't get 'em mixed right, and I finally found the right guy to mix 'em, so that should be done hopefully by the first part of next year."

With almost 25 years of service, Reed is the longest-standing member of the current GUNS lineup after singer Axl Rose.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dizzy-reed-says-there-is-a-lot-of-fantastic-new-guns-n-roses-music-that-needs-to-be-heard/


Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTa5x6ylcs

---

/jarmo

Good mornng.   I was getting tired of talking to myself.   But night shift is almost done for me and the drive home begins.   A 1hr drive in fact where I plan on cranking up some cd tracks then fall asleep dreaming of what may come in the future of new releases.   Hahaha.   Have a good day guys

Regarding Ashba and BF, it would take a heart of gold to not feel a bit, put out, if they do not get songwriting credits on CD2, that is if Axl decides to pursue solely the Bucket/Finck material - even if he allows them to overdub solos as in CD. Again, it all goes back to this genius plan of Axl's to record material and sit on it for 15 years, which some of you are so keen to defend. Funny how nobody else follows this amazing plan? Imagine if The Beatles decided to shelve Sgt Pepper until the 1980s?

Who said it was a plan? Who says he didn't want to release everything sooner?

Oh yeah, because he didn't so it must mean he didn't want to, hope to and that he has planned every single detail exactly like it happened.  ::) :rofl:



/jarmo

But has he been proactive?  Not really.

Life throws all sorts of shit at you.  No one disputes that.  But its about how you respond.

There's not a real strong, provable argument he has been.  That tends to come down to how we don't know, so shouldn't say.  And nevermind the lack of tangible proof, and it would be swell if you could just gloss over the proof to the contrary that we do have.  Thanks in advance.

That's a poor argument, in the eyes of most.  Rather flimsy, that one.

I refuse to believe that there is some, weird unknowable obstacle, stopping Axl from choosing 10-14 songs from his, alleged vast backlog of material, and plonking them on a disc. Every other band manages to circumnavigate these immense difficulties, Axl, so it is said, has to face. The art of releasing an album by a band that is already established is not that hard. It is not like putting a man on the moon. Neil Young has done it twice, just this year!!

I agree with you to an extent... but come on dude...

Jarmo and his worshipers are going to wig out on you... whats the point?

to Axl's credit this COULD NOT HAVE been the plan....so obviously there were/are hurdles but has he tackled them properly?... im guessing no

don't shoot the messenger!

hahaha, as a fellow Canadian, like Neil Young, I wouldn't use him as an example in the song writing process.  He is a god when it comes to getting material out....    There is not to many artists like him.

I just got home from driving an hr on a winter hwy here jamming out to CD and a little Jay-Z..   MB Neil can write a song for me about being stuck in but fuck no where, driving to my death on a winter hwy, trying to rap to Jay to the Z..  Hahahaha, I bet it would be released by Friday if he did.

Plans change everything changes.   If Axl had a plan, he has all the power in the world to change it.  Shit, I am divorced, perfect example of a plan changing in life.  However....  Its been a very long time to be sitting on songs, that I want to hear!!!  haha

In regards to the new players doing over dubs on old stuff...   I was thinking that mb there is something in there contracts guaranteeing a song writing credit on a future release or something.  MB that is why we always get these re-recordings.  I can see a lot of the guys contracts being back heavy in this aspect.  Take say Robin.  Well he probably received a nice salary for recording and nice chunk for touring, but the major income source was getting his name on the writing credits.   Just something I was thinking, while I was trying not to die on the way home

This whole endeavor was going to be hard.  What Axl was attempting to do was basically unprecedented.

And while you absolutely have to factor in that things were bumpy along the way, which sucks, its totally disingenuous and more than a bit self serving to just pretend the self inflicted wounds portion of that process did not happen.

The label could be bastard flavored bastards with bastard filling.  But does that explain all the wasted time?  The missed deadlines?  The entire days people sat in a studio for an artist that never showed up?  Is that on the label, the industry, karma, or whatever else?

Sure was a weird process that was the making of CD, but it did turn out a pretty kick ass album that I am still listening too.  I have no problem with anything above that you stated that took place to make this album.  AND the supposed 3 albums worth of recorded material that is some place.  And a remix album too...   I have no problem. but I want it!!!!!   Give it to me baby!   haha   Really now, there shouldn't be much more of a hold up...   Especially if they are saying its very close!  And most of it has been recorded for years!   I wouldn't be so intense to have to come out soon, if they hadn't talked about it coming out soon so much!  If the approach was, you will see it when you see it..  Or we are negotiating with the label for recording costs the label didn't cover or We are re-dubbing some songs with a couple of current guns members to give them some writing credits and a nice pay day...   But nope, I read its recorded and close...

The argument that Axl has final say and it happens when he says so is very valid.  Little point arguing otherwise.

I just keep coming back to the years 2003-2005, the dark time.  Its pretty hard to believe that 3 solid years doing nothing could not lead to an album being ready by the time they hit the road again in May 2006.  Or not for 2 plus years after that.

At some point, you need to take at least some of the responsibility.  It can't always be someone else's fault entirely.

It was my understanding that during this time an album was presented to the label, but rejected in favor of more producers and perhaps more singles.  It was also during this time I think Axl was getting his ass sued by everyone..  And he was changing managers and I think the record label was ever switching record companies or something like that hahahaha..   Then around 04 or so I think the record company started playing hard ball and cut of funding the recordings, then the greatest hits law suit...   lol damn there was a lot going on behind the senses back then, I give the guy credit for getting out of bed some days.    However, all that is done and the shit is recorded, so lets hear ir

The label cut off funding in 2004.  Isn't that sort of your cue to wrap it up?

Ya my dates are all miss mashed in my head right now, as the 3 shots I had prior to crawling into bed here are hitting me   haha..    Ya I don't know what to say.  I remember hearing a interview with Axl in 99, with him saying CD would be delivered next year.  We all know how that went.   So we can blame the label by rejecting the first draft that they received.  Who knows mb if the label excepted everything as is then, we would be sitting on 3 albums worth of material now......

I am just at the point now of release what you have and move on...  for all I know some of these songs could be 20 years old almost...  more music released is better for the fans I think..   Then move on with the current line up and write some new stuff or what ever, and tour and tour and play different songs.   Not to get into a set list argument now.  haha    Bed time for bacon


   

The use of old material also affects promotion.  Well, theoretically, anyway.

Assuming these guys are even allowed to speak to the press about it, its not like they have all these stories about what the making of process was like.

That's one things that is very frustrating as a fan of guns.  When a musician leaves the band we never get any stories   Unless it's the same tired ones from the boys from the 90s.  I for one would love to hear certain guys thoughts on the outcome of cd and unreleased material and how what the whole recording process was like.   All we ever get though is just one line quotes here and there.   I don't get it.  It would be great free promotion for the band  and the material

It would definitely be cool to have a closer look into the making of CD. Until then, can we really argue about whether the reasons for the delay of the album were legitimate or not? I suppose we could, but all that may happen is that some people will imagine (this is all they can do considering they do not know) reasons that they feel are not valid and other people will likely go on to imagine reasons that they themselves think of as legitimate. Here is my response, as an example:

"The reasons (that I don't know much about) were probably valid. I'm sure Axl could have done certain things better but nobodies perfect. Thanks for tryin' Ax! I really liked the end result, so whatever's clever man."

Then here comes another user, let's just call him mortuary mikey:

"There are no reasons, or the reasons you are giving are not good enough. Shame on him!"

The above also goes for whether or not the distance between CD's release and the next album's release is justified.


Yeah, watch out for that there Jarmo and his worshippers! They might do somethin' crazy like not think that them there favorite singer is must be exactly an idiot and so on! :hihi:

Ya I really do t care for the past all that much other than the curiosity sourcing the whole cd recording process, which included some of the greatest musicians and producers on the planet.    Don't worry I am old enough that I remeber living threw it all and don't want my fav band to go threw the same thing again.   That's why I like to live in the present.   I would love them just to release the already recorded music as soon as possible so us as fans have something and the band is also able to move on and start writing it's own music.   Which the band can then support with live tours featuring there music as the main act and the older songs and a small back ground

Yes, that stuff would be interesting to read about.

As for the band playing someone else's material, I guess it's inevitable in a band like Guns where the scope is so huge and so many artists are involved. I'm sure the current line up is working on something of their own as well and that we'll see it eventually. Besides, like Gypsy Soul pointed out, most of the members that are in the current line up did write and play a lot of what is on CD.

It's all guns material.  In the future and in the past.  I have no problem with anyone playing anything live.   It's all about giving the current band there chance to shine with it's own material.  And giving respect to the atists that came together to make cd.   Just do both and get it all out there

I'm sure they are getting their chance as we speak. It's all a part of the process. I also think that all the past members that recorded and wrote material for CD were accounted for in the credits of the album. Axl is very meticulous about that.

I too want to hear as much Guns material as I can. Of course, that's a given. I'm definitely not into it being pried out of Axl's hands or rushed for whatever reason though. I want it to be held to the Axl Rose standard. That standard is to me a big part of what makes GNR GNR.

I totally agree with the Axl standard.  I too want his final blessing on any material released.

I guess in my mind they are sitting on a ton of songs that have already been given, this Axl blessing and they are just sitting on them.  Even Ron came out in an interview this year and said, right before the release of CD they tried to get a song on call, Atlas Shrugged, I beleave is the tittle.  He said the only reason it didn't get added, as it would of made the album to long....  So there, that is one song that is ready....   And in my mind there is tons more just like that...

In regards to the past credits being accounted for.  Its not like there was a thousand members playing stuff, shit there was a few guitar players etc...   They WROTE beautiful music and all there song writing credits would account for this, its very easy to track. 

I thought when you said they should get the respect they deserve it had something to do with them getting credit for the work they put in but I guess you meant something else.

I don't know what you mean.  I kinda made it very clear

I feel all the artists/musicians that recorded during the CD experience should have all there work released as is, if ready, like I heard it was.  I don't want to hear different musicians re-write already wrote material out of respect for the great work that they did during the recording of CD and also to give the current line up a fresh voice, with material written by them.   Is that clear?

In regards to song writing credits on a recorded album...  If something is already recorded, it is very easy to figure out the song writing credits...   Is that clear?

Ok baconman, I think I got it this time. As far as replacing a part, I think there are some good reasons for doing that. Maybe the new member has a better take of that part. I can't see them switching out the old take for an inferior one. It has to be at least just as good but very likely better, as least in Axl's opinion.

Also, if Axl wants what Josh Freeze wrote for the album but wants it to be performed by Brain, maybe its because once he heard Brain play those tracks he thought his style fit the album better. Or maybe he did it so the live sound of the album songs would be more consistent with the record. I don't know what the reasons are but I'm definitely happy with the end result and if I'm not mistaken, no one has really complained about being recorded over yet so if they have no problem with it then I don't see what the problem is. Correct me if I'm wrong though. If they have a problem with it, I'd like to hear what they have to say and it might make me feel differently about it.   


And yes, I know how much you want to see the lineup get their chance. I believe that is in the process of happening right now.

I am not talking about just "parts" of a song.  I am talking about song writing.  That is both writing music, melodys and lyrics.  With all three parts as equal as the last. 

OK, you feel whoever wrote it should play it on the record. Fair enough. That's certainly one way to do things.

lol yes that's how I feel.  Am I crazy for wanting this?  It is there songs, including many current member of the band. 

I would also love to have the current line up sit down and write its own music.  In its own voice.

Then I would like this current line up, or what ever line up around by that point to tour the shit out of all these songs, changing up set lists all the time, so we get to experience the wonders of all these different songs played live.

Again, that's just what I want.

Do some people actually want the current band to go back into the studio and re-write and re-record supposed already done material, by musicians that released CD an album I hope we all support?  That just seems silly.   And the answer, I will except/take/be happy with what ever Axl gives us, is even sillier

It's not that I want them to re-record, it's just that if they do then they probably have a good reason for it. Like I stated originally, either way is fine with me. If you gave me three options to vote on:

1. Keep the original recording by the writer of the song

2. Re-record everything and use the best takes on the album regardless of who recorded the take
or
3. Just let Axl do his thing, he probably knows what's best for his vision

I'd choose 3. I am generally someone that will always choose 3. If thinking that my favorite artist knows what he's doing is silly, then I am one silly mother fucker.

Well at least you will never be disappointed or angry or let down ever with this band.   

As long as they keep making such bad ass albums I will not feel let down, angry, or disappointed because of whatever they decide to do. Album quality is the only thing I really care about. Sure, the performances have to be good too but they generally are so I have no qualms there. CD is my favorite album of all time. Whatever they gotta do to get me another one of those, I'm all for it.  :)

Stupid quote feature does not work well on a iPhone

Well in that case I would be disappointed but not angry with the band. It's not like I've invested money into their next album or anything. I have each GNR album so far and that's all I've paid for, so that's all I really have coming. Anything else would be a bonus that I would be really grateful to get my hands on. 

Agreed.

It would be a bummer, but oh well.

I havnt invested any of my money in the recording process either. But one thing I have invested in this band is my time and my loyalty to support them play live as much as possible.

To me the time is way more valuable than money.   I make money I don't make time.   I would be so pizsed not to be able to hear new music.   But again.  It's not like I would stop being a fan and all of a sudden stop listening to there music.   But I would be pissed

I understand your feelings to an extent. I might be a little angry at first too. It would all be a part of the grieving process. But once I started to look at it logically, I would say:

I payed for so and so albums. I own them. I payed for so and so concert tickets to see Guns perform and I did get to see them perform (or got a refund), so I got what I payed for in that case as well. I have liked their music for x amount of time and have been loyal to them (whatever loyal means in this sense) so I should receive_____ in return.

Well actually, what do I have coming? I got what I payed for. I never got a shoddy product out of the whole deal. I even got some extra bonuses like being able to watch countless videos of them performing for free on the internet. It was nice doing business with them.

I Happy Whit GUNS N' ROSES From 1987 To 2014, All My Life Whit Them

 :smoking: