Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I am suffering major withdrawal from Vegas.  Would LOVE to see another GNR concert this year.  Just wondering when the next opportunity might be.  Ron is on Guitar Gods till July 12, Dead Daisies are booked until August 31st.  Is Sixx Am doing something this year?  Replacements have dates spread between now and October.  Might we see more GNR this year?  I'de like to think of this as less of a stalking activity and more of a research based activity....lol....I need to save holidays for concerts, but can't carry over years end.

who knows, maybe late this year or some big event on spring 2015.

"We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out," Rose says in the interview. "We've worked more on some of those things and we've written a few new things. But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That's already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That's been done for a while, too. But after Vegas we're going to start looking very seriously at what we're doing in that regard."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=65856.0

I would doubt there are any more shows happening this year.  Which is understandable.  Everyone needs time off.

What needs to happen is some time to decompress and then actually follow through on Axl's talk about "the second half of Chinese" in the fall or soon after.

Its going to be a real punch to the stomach if the next thing were hear from them is announcing some random festival next year.  And when asked about new material, have them retreat to the same old "dunno, but we're talking about it" routine.

I don't think its realistic to expect anything from them the rest of this year.

Time off?  Everyone is working.

I'm keeping fingers crossed for New Years Eve!

I think Sixx Am are releasing a new album this year but highly doubt any tour will follow.  I don't think they toured when their second album came out.  Plus Nikki Sixx is busy with Motley Crue's final tour the rest of this year, and probably next. 

Forgot about that Motley tour.....lol
So other than the Replacements....everything is clear come September.....that we know of.

But I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect these guys to come off the road and be back in a studio the next week ready to work.  Obviously, they will take some time off.

The next tour dates are next year sometime.  Its just a question of its to actually support a new product.  And not "Further Appetite For More Democracy : No Ending!!"

That's gold!  :hihi:

Don't pay too much attention to what the self-proclaimed experts think.
They don't attend shows but are quick to criticize without facts to fall back on. Opinions don't count as facts.  :)


GN'R usually announces their shows a few months in advance. Latest examples: South American tour was announce early this year and the tour took place in March-April.
Las Vegas residency was announced in February and started in May....

When is the next tour? Who knows. The band is having some time off. Some of the members are out touring with other bands (as stated above). But you can count on the fact that whenever it is, the same individuals will be there point out how there's something wrong.....  : ok:


But it's always nice to see fans who appreciate the band being active and playing live!  :beer:



/jarmo

Aren't they playing a show for that festival that got cancelled, oct I think  ??? ???

What Round are we in?

Yeah, life is hard.

If you could take a brief respite from the pity party here, you'd have seen I have twice said they are due some time off and its not reasonable to expect them right back out there.

As for the next move after the much deserved time off?  Well, we have Axl's own words, don't we?  He either follows through or bails out.

Time will tell.  It usually does.

Yes, I do feel sorry for that kind of people. But only a little bit when I have to think about it.

Now, there, it's gone...  : ok:


No matter when or where GN'R plays next, it'll be exciting. No matter what the tour is celebrating. Our favorite band playing shows.... Hell yeah!




/jarmo

I love the DVD, but it makes me miss the concert.  I want to go back.  I need a Canadian concert to bring my daughter (she's turning 7 and named Izzy, hasn't seen GNR live yet) and/or a New Years concert just to have a great time....I'll travel anywhere for that one....

Indeed.

OK, so, let's split the difference.

How about we make the next tour 'Chinese Illusions'.  We could even couch the as yet unplayed by this line-up UYI tunes as "new songs".  Setlist is radically different, but no real work has to be done to bring it about.

Everyone wins.

What would you see as confirmation that Axl has followed through or not?

After all, he said, "after Vegas, we're going to start looking very seriously at what we are doing in that regard".  He didn't say anything about when exactly the album would be released.  You could describe what he said as working on the new album, I suppose.  I just don't know how we would know if he did that or not.

Ali

Here's a hypothetical question for all of you who think GN'R "needs" to release a new album before the next tour:
Imagine the next tour has two-four new songs from the new/upcoming album. The rest of the set list is similar to what's been the case so far. Will this make a huge difference to you and enough to make you buy a ticket?

If your answer is "no", what's the magical number that will make a difference? Considering many of you in this group of people haven't seen your favorite band in years by now.
What's the mysterious equation like? How many % of the set has to be new? How many years has there to be between shows if that % isn't met?

And if you're gonna answer this with some sarcastic smart ass remarks, don't bother. It's a serious question.


As a contrast, many of us love the band. We love to see the band on stage. It doesn't really matter which tracks from what albums they choose to perform or what label you put on the tour. Everybody has their favorite(s). But a show is never bad because they didn't play all your favorites.....  :)



/jarmo

My gut tells me that nothing will happen on the new album front.  That's just based on track record.

However, I choose to be encouraged by that interview where he talks about it.  I talked that up in every thread as a positive that can't be denied.

What's not following through?  Months of radio silence, followed by a handful of non-domestic dates, and when asked how that "very serious looking" went...retreat back to "don't know, don't care" territory.

What is following through?  Hell, I'll even lower the bar.  

I would consider it following through if that exact scenario played out (silence, far flung tour dates) but when asked about new material, we are simply talking in more concrete terms.  That songs are picked.  That its being mixed.  That there is a release date in mind.  

That if you ask a band member about it, he might actually know what the hell you are talking about.  

Not exactly moon and the stars type stuff here, right?

Will it happen?  Dunno.

Hell if they mixed in a new song or two that would be AWESOME!  If they played the set list from Vegas....i'de still be a happy camper.  :beer:


Going slightly off topic here, but another special guest would be cool too....

I love Bach, Bubbles, Izzy, Duff....just saying.....

I don't see the announcement of tour dates as being indicative one way or another as to whether or not work has been done on the new album.  I think they're completely independent.  Furthermore, I don't realistically expect them to NOT tour.  After all, they earn their money as musicians, that's how they make their living, so I fully expect and understand the need to tour from that perspective, as disappointingly realistic as it may be.

The band members and their talk of a new album is irrelevant to me as well.  They may not reveal anything because they were asked to not say anything or because they personally don't want to be dinged if something doesn't come to pass when they thought it would.

The interesting thing would be Axl's next comments on new music. But, then again, he may not choose to go into too much detail either for whatever reason.  That doesn't mean that things weren't worked on during this time off.

Ali

I would likely buy a ticket anyway.  Most of us would.

But I would see that as big time progress.  And a great sign to the fanbase in terms of hope.


I think this particular stage show and setlist is a bit played out.  Been how many years now?  Its not some crime to say that.

And we are fans.  We will always be interested.  Even we haters and dissidents are here the next day looking for clips of a tour we are told everyday we root to fail.  We don't hate.  We ask why this seems to be all there is. 

They adopt your playing a few new honest to god new songs plan?  Different ballgame.  It implies moving forward.

I wanna see the show they've been doing.
Those are all the best GNR songs.
If I went and they didn't play Street of Dreams, Madagascar, or Knockin' on Heaven's Door, I would be disappointed!

They haven't played Madagascar in years I don't think.

Its cool if none of that matters to you, but you can't deny that sentiment is out there that it hurts this band's credibility.  

"Why do people say this isn't a real band?"

What you just typed.  What you just typed is why people say that.  

When people say this is your basic touring band that plays old GNR songs for Axl to sing live, its because of repeated instances of what you just typed.  And when pressed for further comment, get fed "well, there is no band like Guns N' Roses, rock-n-roll!!"

Well, that's tired.   And no one buys it anymore.  



If the next dates are in May, and we are no further along, we're probably never going to be.

And again, if that's how it is, that's how it is.  We can't hold a gun to his head.  

But maybe we put the "how can you say he's not interested in releasing anything new" routine in permamnt dry dock, huh?  At some point, its put up or shut up time.

Yeah, after being such a staple.  I found that surprising.

I think it works very well live.  Have since the first time I heard it at RIR III.  Still my favorite version.

I haven't really enjoyed "new" madagascar after they softened up the solo so much.

The rio 2001-version is the real thing :smoking:



He said; That's already recorded. So...working on the release is more like it I guess.

Successful tours all over the world; Vegas 2012 show Blu-ray/DVD #1 on Amazon and sells out to the point that it's on back-order; Legions of dedicated rabid GNR fans "following" every move on twitter/fb/instagram/etc made by each GNR band member..... BECAUSE THEY ARE GUNS N' ROSES!!!!

That's what it means to have band credibility.

No one is buying your story that you're only being critical because you want the entire world to know and love GNR as much as you do.

You're such a hater and reunionist that you're so blinded to all the success and even to the guys giving silly, JOKING, non-answers in interviews to questions that they can't or won't (because they don't think it's their place to "announce" such things) or don't have answers to.

Stop ruining every thread with your bullshit!

Hmm...not really.

No one outside the dyed in the wool, post everyday on forums, never gonna lose us diehards think they are a credible band that does stuff.  And let's be honest, even that small segment of overall fandom is pretty fragmented.  There is a far bigger segment that questions what the "plan" supposedly is here.



I comment on what I see. 

If you want to read how anything and everything is sunshine and puppy dog tails, you might as well stop reading my posts.  I react to what I see.  Sometimes, its good (Axl's latest interview).  Sometimes, its bad (occasionally shaky live vocals).  If anything, I'm fair.  But you just want a pom-pom waver and I'm not that guy.  If you want to hear 'Everything Is Awesome', go download 'The LEGO Movie'.



I'm a reunionist now?  That's classic. 

This must be why I make repeated calls not only for a new album of new songs, I actually go as far as to say I would rather it be done by the current onstage line-up.

And you find these are the typical opinions of a reunionist?  Might want to double check that formula, guy.

If you forget the arguments on both sides about who deserves what and look at the facts,

Its a fact that Axl has now mentioned that he is seriously looking at releasing what he calls 'the second half of Chinese' - the fact that he's talking about releasing it makes me excited. I just loved when CD finally came out, its still one of my favorite records of all time, so to think that I'm going to one day get another 10-15 songs from Guns N Roses is a dream to me. Unlike others, I take the comment about new music being released at face value.

In terms of seeing them live, if they play the UK, I'll be there, regardless of the set list. Seeing this band live is an amazing experience. I've seen them live four times but next tour I'll double that count! Still really want to see them at the O2.

I know Axls track record for releasing music is not the best, whether this is down to him or things outside of his control is just speculation but he's got my backing, I wish him and the band all the success in the world if and when something happens to continue this journey.

You have to look at it as a positive.

You can't sit there and rip him for never talking about new music, and then not give him props when he does.  That was the most positive Axl interview I've read in 20 years.

Just saying this as someone who's been present at multiple legs of the tour. The stage show that debuted in Asia in 2009 and the one used in Las Vegas last month weren't the same. Sorry.
Sometimes the changes have been bigger, other times less obvious. But there's been some kind of changes almost every new leg.

"It's the same setlist"... Whatever.



/jarmo

I was very supportive of your pitch about the same setlist with a few actual new songs in the mix.

Why can't we talk about that?

Vegas showed some variety, for sure.  It showed what the band would likely do if they were playing to an audience that was seeing multiple shows, and not one show in a particular region per leg.

And if they stopped playing WTTJ, SCOM, Patience, PC, LALD, KOHD, Nighttrain, Brownstone....you get the picture...people would riot. OK, that's hyperbole and given the bands history..maybe poorly phrased.  People would rage....

They DO swap through some of the other stuff.  But, of their entire set list, I'd say only about 30% of the songs (and I think that's being generous) are "changeable" without potentially having a number of fans be disappointed.  You can't just add and run a 4 hour, play every album from start to finish, and add a few covers, show.  That's not realistic.  And assuming a 90 min to 2 hour show....

So...keeping in mind they want to appeal to the broadest audience possible (and not necessarily people who have seen, or monitor, more than one show on a particular tour)...I'm not sure what they can drop to add other stuff.

I'd LOVE to see them do Coma, live.  It's a dream of mine.  But...I recognize that's a relatively deep cut, really appreciated by a deeper segment of the fan base...and so it can't replace, say, WTTJ on the set list.  Maybe it could replace Estranged, once in awhile..but that song has broader recognition AND it's appreciated by the deeper segment of the fan base. It kills 2 birds with one stone.

Cue complaints about all the solos....

I try not to worry about "new music".  It'll happen, when it happens.  Any other attitude with this band and you'll drive yourself crazy.

I worry more about the next concert.  It means the GNR machine is intact and still moving....

Because I don't believe it. I don't believe that people like yourself will be happy, ever. Momentarily maybe, but then the week after there's something else that needs to be "brought up".
Doesn't matter if there's a new live release that you "needed" (?) because it would make this band a "real band", here you are finding something to complain about... "It's the same setlist".

You would think that the people who complain about "the same setlist", "nothing new from the band" and "no interviews" would be somewhat surprised and possibly able to hide their negativity at least for a few weeks after all those "issues" have been made void when the band played songs like Prostitute last month, a new live release was just released, and there was a new interview with Axl... But no... :)

So, this is why it's difficult to take anything you say seriously. There's always something wrong.
No offense. Just an observation from the other side of the fence. Where the grass is green.... And so on!




/jarmo

I suppose its easier when you do both parts of the conversation.  Tends to go how you'd like.

Hey, what number am I thinking of right now?



This would hold more weight if I was not in various threads talking about how great Axl sounded on those clips, how welcome the dusting off of the songs was, and how good they sounded in comparison to other times they were tried.

But yeah, other than all that, I had nothing to say on the matter. 



You want, if not outright demand, a legion of pom-pom wavers.  That is how you define the term "fan".  I don't subscribe to that mindset, nor find it credible.

On this, we will never agree.  Doesn't mean we can't have some laughs along the way.  Its a rock band, not real life.

Sure, it hurts the band members' credibility if you assume that not saying anything about a new album is the result of genuinely being unaware as opposed to choosing to not saying, or being asked to not saying, or if it genuinely hasn't been something that was being seriously thought about until after Vegas (as Axl said).

If someone has already established their narrative that "this is your basic touring band that plays old GNR songs for Axl to sing live", I think they will view things in such a way that reinforces their already existing narrative, like what I was alluding to above.  

I understand.  It's human nature.  But, it doesn't mean it's correct, which is why I said the band members and their talk of a new album is irrelevant to me.

If the next dates roll around next Spring or so, the album may be closer to being done.  We just may not know about it.  Axl's comments on it may or may not be a measure of that depending on how he chooses to answer.  So, again, I'm not sure how to judge how far along things are from our limited vantage point.

Ali

A fan to me is somebody whose first thoughts aren't "let's see what's wrong with my "favorite" band today?"... Simple. ;)

I'm sorry that only a few weeks (?) after you had something nice to say you're back to your old routine!




/jarmo

Being provided with nothing to refute that over several years time and several breaks between minimally changing touring legs is going to lead people to say such things.

I can't see faulting them for it.  



Fair.

But to take 8 more months (or so) and still be on "we are still deciding what to do", well, that's the answer right there, no?  They certainly won't be doing any recording, mixing, or readying for release once more touring starts.  Not realistic and no one should reasonably expect that.  So if no progress is made in the interim before the next tour, it won't be anytime soon.  And wondering what exactly you can't decide on in 8 months, looks at songs already done, is going to be a valid question.

Is that fair?

Apology accepted. ;)

If that makes you feel better, then you're welcome!




/jarmo

The problem is that when you've already established a narrative and you've bought into it, it can be difficult to provide evidence that would be sufficient enough to "refute" that narrative and make people change their minds (depending on the individual, obviously).

As Mark Twain said, ?It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.?

Bottom line:  I think there are those that have already established their belief that this isn't a band, and whether or not a band member gives a definitive update on the album (for whatever reason) will not ultimately change that.

I can't fault someone for thinking what they think, but if make assumptions that may not be true or even valid, only to reinforce their point, that can be pointed out.

I don't see why the record can't be mixed by the likes of Andy Wallace again while they are on tour.  Recording files can be shared electronically.  So, I think progress can be made on tour and before a tour.  It just may be difficult for us to know about it.  Any comments about it may be deliberately opaque, unfortunately, so I don't think we can assume a clear answer and status update, or the lack thereof as being indicative of anything.

Ali

So you're saying that in YOUR opinion, Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Ron, Dj, Richard N' Tommy are NOT truly Guns N' Roses?? 

And, in YOUR opinion, these eight gentlemen who have performed under the GNR name for years n' years now to thousands upon thousands of people all over the world and in that just released 2012 Vegas show blu-ray/dvd are not only NOT GNR but also are NOT a "credible band"??

In YOUR opinion, the ONLY way to obtain "band credibility" is to release an album of new material 100% written and performed by Tommy, Richard, Dj, Ron, Frank, Chris, Dizzy N' Axl??

Me and my pom-poms believe questioning what the "plan" might be and questioning the "credibility" of the band are two totally different things.

The people I grew up with are casual GN'R fans. They liked AFD, UYI, Lies, and have given CD a couple of listens. To them, if GN'R play a new track, that is the time to go and buy another drink. To them, the top songs on Last FM are the songs they want to hear and should form a rotating setlist.

Therefore, if GN'R are playing stadiums, realistically, they should probably stay away from too many new songs, maybe one or two at the most. Guns could do the smaller venue thing for the fans on the forum, and it is there where they play the new music, if it is to be played.

But as I already said, if he came out and told us as little as "we have the songs picked" or "we are getting things mixed", I would accept that as huge progress and defend it against anyone that said otherwise.

I'm not even one of those "not until its in my hand" types.  If he tells us even those sorts of things, that's moving forward, to me.  "We are still talking about it" is not, in my view.

This tends to be a semantic argument that goes off the rails quickly, but I'll give it a shot.

In terms of who is "Guns N' Roses", right now, in 2014...its those guys, yes.  That's who is in the band.  Buy a ticket, that is who you should expect.

In the minds of most folks, its not "Guns N' Roses".  Not in 2014, or any other time.  To the general public, GNR is Axl, Slash, and Duff - minimum.  The general public will never accept any Slashless line-up as "Guns N' Roses".  Just never going to happen.  Is what it is.  And I think that is a long lost battle that will never result in changed minds, but nor should we worry about it.



When I say they are not a credible band, in my opinion, I mean because those 8 guys have yet to write even one note together in 8 years time.  I have zero idea what those guys could do as a collaborative effort.  No one does.  All we know is that they do a decent job playing old GNR songs (anywhere from 5-25 years old) for Axl to sing live.  That's what I know of them.



I think as you are touring with a line-up containing a guitarist and a drummer who did the bare minimum on already completed songs on only one album...and another guitarist that has literally never played a note of a GNR record, its hard to call them a credible band.  Touring band, yes.  They've been touring for years now with this line-up.  But what can they do as a unit, creatively?  No idea.  No one knows.  Not me, you, anyone.

However, and this the key point that tends to get lost as I am being burned in effigy around here...I very much WANT to hear what they can do as a band.  I very much WANT a new album from those guys.  I have never said anything different.  I'll roll with old Buckethead/Robin tracks if that's all I can get.  But Id' rather a new album be by these guys.  Even if it means re-recording Bucket/Robin parts.  I see no point releasing as yet unheard GNR music under the GNR banner showcasing guys gone for 10 years.  Certainly not at the expense of guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses. 

I wasn't specifically referring to you.

My comment was more more general, and in response to your comment, ""Why do people say this isn't a real band?"What you just typed.  What you just typed is why people say that. "  It was more about people in general.

Ali

It's not a matter of semantics.  I asked YOUR (notice it's in all caps) opinion.
Either YOU believe these guys are GNR or YOU don't.


And what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it sucks because YOU dislike the sound/direction these eight guys decided to go with??  YOU never considered them a real credible band anyway and much less that they are GNR??

Or what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it's a gazzillion times better than all the other previous GNR albums combined??  Only then YOU will consider them a real credible band worthy of the GNR banner??


If that's all you can get!!??!!??  So in YOUR opinion, Buckethead and Robin used to be credible Gunners for their part in the writing (along with five other members of the current lineup and other people) released new material.  BUT since they're no longer a part of the current line-up, in YOUR opinion, their contributions to the unreleased material isn't worthy of the GNR banner even though five of the guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses also contributed to that same material?? 


It's not a matter of semantics.
Either YOU believe Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Bumblefoot, Dj, Richard n' Tommy  are GNR or YOU don't.

Please stay on topic guys.
When is the next GNR window?
I am hoping they do a New Years Run at Madison Square Garden.

Jarmo and D is like expartners ;D


That would actually be pretty cool.

And I agree, they need to focus on the afd-stuff when doing those bigger gigs.


I would just stomp my foot.

Dude, it's Axl's voice and 'some guys'. Look at what happened to Motley Crue after ditching Vince.

I think I might have mentioned this before, usually GN'R announces shows about three months in advance.
Surprise shows are (obviously) announced on shorter notice (like Brooklyn Bowl in 2013).




/jarmo

Was this in code on your screen?  Invisible text?  What's the disconnect here?  I mean, its right there.



Nothing about them being a credible band has to do with how the music is received.  That's a point you have just now introduced mid-stream.

Once they release an effort they actually wrote themselves and recorded, we will see what they are capable of.  Whether its good or bad is another conversation, but we will know at that point what sort of band they are once we have a tangible product to judge them on.



You are kind of meandering here. 

As I said in my original post which I just re-quoted for you here, these current 8 guys are Guns N' Roses in 2014.  Not sure how I can be clearer on that.



Really not sure why you are struggling so mightily with this.

On the basest level, its like this :

- New album written and recorded by the 8 guys on stage on every night show us what that 8 person band is capable of in its purest form.  Its their ideas, their work, their product, 100%

- New album of 10 year old tracks already recorded by 2 guitarists and another drummer over 10 years ago, with a few flourishes added by the current guys to give the impression of collaboration...not the same thing. 

- A song credited (Rose-Ashba-Thal-Stinson) tells me more about the current band than a song credited (Rose-Carroll-Finck-Mantia)...just with a few drum fills by Frank and a few random riffs by DJ and/or Ron cut and pasted over top of the completed song.  Completed in 2002, that is. 



3rd time now, and 4th if you count when I said it yesterday, those 8 guys are Guns N' Roses in 2014.  I'd include a band photo for clarification...if I had one.

I would not see it this year.  See new dates announced next year, not domestic ones.

2012 in Vegas residency.

Doesn't anyone remember the last Vegas show (6.7.14) Axl said at the end "maybe we'll see some of you later this year" meaning that the band might do a short tour. Anyone else hear that?

"We'll be back next year with a whole bunch of new songs." - Axl Rose @ Rock In Rio III, 1.15.2001

People heard that too. 

I, for one, am not going to take something blurted out onstage as gospel, pro or con.

So not in 2013 or 2014.  So years was correct.  I remember asking about it in Toronto and was told it was dropped because "it sounded like a funeral procession" and didn't fit the set.

I personally love it, but it's the old story that we have rehashed a million times on here that they can play only so many songs.  And they give you more than your fair share at a concert!

Yes.




/jarmo

I was there and I heard that.

As far as what it means, who knows?  It may end up that no touring is done.

Ali

So...hold him to that?

Whatever works for you champ.  :-*




/jarmo

Hey, I'm just asking a question.  You are the one puffing out your chest about what he said and how we should all take heed.

But let me guess.  You don't want to go on record.  You want to lecture a bit, but not to the point you will put something on record that can be used against you in the future.

Am I warm?

I answered a question where somebody asked if I heard Axl say that. I did.

I assume you didn't since you weren't present.
It's very basic common sense.


Also, I don't believe he promised you anything. So, take it for what it's worth. But to completely disregard it because of what he said in 2001 is a bit of a stretch.


So, how are you enjoying that new release?




/jarmo

Ah, so you were just confirming that you also heard it.  I see.

I don't believe he promised anyone anything either, of course.  I said as much a few posts back that you can't hold an artist to something they blurt out onstage like its gospel.

But...you tend to only see the posts of mine you don't like.  The one about not holding him to it, you miss.  The comparison to RIR III, that, you catch.

It's "funny" how "that" seems to "work".

Waiting on the version with the audio version. 

I'll holla at cha when I get it. 

But, it's a release by your favorite band.... The band that needs to release something to be more of a real band.... I don't get it.



There's a difference in saying "don't start pointing fingers if it doesn't happen since he didn't promise anything" and saying "it doesn't mean anything because he made similar comments in 2001".





/jarmo

Not really a concert video guy.  Not going to sit and watch a video of anyone, even my favorite band.

Very interested in an audio version for my iPod, which would get played often.  I listen to my bootlegs regularly, and this would be a concert with great sound.

I'm told that might come later.  That's the one I'm all over.

Then why not just "listen" to the concert video.  I listen to it pretty much daily.  I'm not always watching it.

Is the eventual Audio release going to be any different.....quality wise? (<===real question, not a smart ass remark)

To be fair I'm the same way. I want audio only. A bluray/dvd isn't something I'm going to listen to because I use my iPod more than anything. I could rip the audio track out of the dvd and convert it to MP3 but that would be a huge pain in the ass. And in the car I use a cd player so... I'm probably in a minority though.

(I also rip my MP3s at a higher quality than most places like iTunes offer and I like having a physical original with booklet)

but in the meantime......

Concert video doesn't do me much good on the putting green.  Or on the beach.  Or in my car.

iTunes quality actually sucks.  Are they still using 256?  I was dumbfounded when I actually bought a single that came through like that. 

I listen to the concert video on the golf course, in my car.....on a plane (no internet) etc....

We live in an age of technology here.  Video doesn't mean sitting in front of a 55 inch tv and watching from the couch.  Put it on your ipod.

Its HELL of a lot BETTER than the Youtube concerts weve been watching/listening to all these years.

My only complaint is that it didn't come out in Canada.

And I would add that I think the second residency (although less fancy), was even better....

To me the magical number is about 4-5 new songs. Considering that 3 of them could be OH MY GOD, SILKWORMS and GOING DOWN. We already know this bunch. Add some strong couple like THE GENERAL and ATLAS SHRUGGED and you got it!

Definately band needs to show that we are into a new cycle and that Chinese promotion is a closed episode.

Showing  some new guns would be enough to re-launch the desire of watching them live.

Looks like DJ is busy with SIXX AM from April8th-April29th.
http://eddietrunk.com/sixx-am-announce-april-2015-tour-dates/ (http://eddietrunk.com/sixx-am-announce-april-2015-tour-dates/)

So are we waiting till MAY 2015 for GNR at best?

Yeah I would say so, kind of bummed about it....but lets hope for a summer of GNR 15

Well, let's be fair.

If DJ is going to spend now until then doing Sixx A.M. stuff, I don't know how realistic it is to think he's ready to jump back in with GNR a week after.

Of course, considering how often we are told how many finished songs Axl has, perhaps he is not really needed all that much for a new album.  So if its just a case of a new album of Bucket/Robin songs, DJ could just pick up where he left off as a member of the touring band.  But I imagine he'd want some downtime, which is hardly unreasonable.

it's only about 3 weeks DJ would be unavailable. not a huge committment. they could tour and/or work on an album with very little interruption from DJ's Sixx AM committments.

and if gnr is touring and DJ has to miss some shows, maybe they could have someone fill in for a few shows the way Duff did last year. hmmmmm.  :hihi:

The best case scenario is that Axl was actually serious in that interview, and they spend the end of this year and the beginning of next putting an new album together for release later on in 2015.

i really don't see a GNR tour for 2015...it just seems like too many guys are doing different things/too many rumors of guys not coming back....whether its Ron and his constant i quit tease, The replacements Sixx AM or Frank and Richard in what they do

but i could be very wrong

I don't either, really.  For the reasons you state.

But if Axl was actually serious in the interview, an album comes out in 2015.

2015 comes and goes with nothing, Axl wasn't serious.  Then we spin the Wheel O' Excuses.

Fingers are crossed I guess....

But i wont be upset if it doesn't happen...just the way it is... we have all been thru it before....

if people want to make "excuses" for why they don't or can't release it...... so be it... I don't really care

Axl saying publicly that he wanted to do it... hey... sounds good to me

Even if Axl came out next year after nothing happened and said, yeah that was the plan, then this happened...so be it.  Shit happens in life.

But I can't really fathom going an entire year and coming back and trying to sell us you are still picking a tracklist, 18 fucking months later.  At least take the time to lie to me.

Well....

Dead Daiseys Nove 25th- Dec 7th
Hookers N Blow Jan 2nd-10th
Ron @ RnR Fantasy Camp Jan 15th-18th
& teaching in Corfu Aug 1st-8th
SixxAM Apr 8th-29th

Leaves open windows in 2015:

February-March
May-July
September-December


I was hoping for a couple new years shows this year, but the time is ticking away here for an announcement.

Well, theoretically, no need to skip out on August if Ron is indeed gone.  So if he is truly out, they'd have May through year's end.

The whole window thing... I don't know if GN'R is a band who will feel the need to put out an album and then immediately tour the hell out of it. Not that they shouldn't, but they didn't with CD. Could that happen again? If that's the case, you don't really need a "window."

With record sales the way they are, and more people spending money on live shows rather than recorded music, who knows what will happen. The rest of CD, a rarities set (I really have to wonder why GN'R don't do a collection of demos and B-sides at this point to compliment the Greatest Hits)... either of those would probably sell pretty well. It doesn't take much to have a hit album these days.

Then again we did just get the live DVD so it's not as if the band has been idle release-wise.

But once they start touring again, no further work is being done.

Do you guys think Axl would turn it over to whoever and tell them to master it on up and just put it out?  I assume he'd be a bit more involved.

Isn't the mastering part usually done by someone else anyway? Is that the part that doesn't take that long? I don't really know much about this kind of stuff actually. If I'm not mistaken, last time the guy that did the mastering made a few different versions and Axl (and Caram?) just picked one of them.

 

In the interview Jarmo posted recently, Dizzy said people are going through the tracks 'right now' selecting what the next album is gonna be.  If something actually IS going to happen, I imagine we'll hear about it soon, in the literal sense of the word.  If not, I imagine more of these Mickey Mouse vaguely optimistic comments peppered with sporadic touring in 2015.

This is assuming GN'R would take these side projects into consideration when to release a new album. I'm not sure the record company would do that if their "optimal" release date would fall during let's say January.


/jarmo

Just to be clear....when I say "window" I wasn't talking about a new album or recording new material....I am just looking at possible options for tour dates.  Obviously if the existing lineup stays intact, it would be difficult to see any dates first half of 2015....I'm suffering withdrawl here....lol

I need to plan holidays wisely and keep a week for second half of the year "in-case" GNR becomes active again.

Hey!  Long time, no speak.

I agree with this.  Assuming any sort of re-recording and overdubbing is already done (which my god...I would certainly hope, by this point) than it just a matter of picking what you want to release.

Oh yeah, I assumed you meant to tour.

Hey! Yeah, I've been hanging back for a while waiting for something, anything, to happen in regard to new music.  Silly me, I guess.  After Vegas, the well of conversation kinda ran dry for me.  Unless the next bit of official news we get eludes to new music, I don't see that changing much. 

So much has changed in the music biz in the 6 years since Chi Dem dropped, I don't see what kind of rollout we'd see for a GNR album in, say, 2015. At least one that ol' Axl would be content with signing the proverbial dotted line that would see this album released.  The best we can hope for is some kind of cool (well-promoted) digital release I would think, maybe with some neat vinyl pressings to go along with it. I dunno. Im just not sure why every move this band takes is the equivalent to scaling mount everest naked.

They should bring Merck back into the fold.  He seemed like a sharp tack.

Sorry, my mistake.




/jarmo

Well I don't have the link available to me at the moment... I'm sure anybody can find it with a quick google search...but I'm quite sure DJ Ashba said very recently that GNR plans to tour heavily for all of 2015  : ok:

Which they could do from May onwards.

And if that is the plan, it would sure seem to me that if they have any serious intention of releasing an album, its wrapped up and turned into the label before they go.

It would be nice to know if they were doing Vegas in June or in November.

So very much, this.  If not, sooner. Mostly since, you know, most of these tracks have been done for the better part of a decade.  :P

I'm sure we'll hear the usual bit about how an album can be assembled using Dropbox and e-mail.

But use your heads.  If a tour happens in May, June, or whenever, does it make more sense to spend the next few months getting it together before you go?  Or does it make more sense to burn those months, then try and do it on the fly, while on tour?

Is that likely?

We keep hearing from Ron & DJ that the "constant" touring schedule has been hindering the release of the next album.  But what's going on in the blocks upon blocks of months in between the tour(s)?  I'm talking the better part of a year sometimes in between tour legs since Chi Dem came out....six years ago.  What's the honest reason for the holdup?  I just hope this time there's actual, vested, interest in getting the next album out. 

If you are serious about getting it out, and you have a solid year off the road (give or take) you get it done.

And if you don't get it done, you never really had any intention to.  If you don't want to, hey, that's your prerogative.  Its your career.  But spare me how I'm supposed to buy you moved heaven and earth to get it done.  You didn't.

And no, "well, maybe they did and we just don't know" doesn't cut it.  At least not with me.  If you are emotionally invested in having to buy into that, that's your deal.  Not me. 

I think Ron's status is a big issue to iron out if there is a tour coming. Obviously we are only speculating, but like we have discussed, replacing him or having others cover his parts would be VERY tricky.

If one wants to see this band in the coming year... I think they need to pray to whatever deity they believe in that Ron is on board.  

I don't want to hop on this...because you really don't know what happening behind the scenes...Do I believe that the evil label is making it impossible? NO, but I really have no idea

The track record is not good... but maybe just maybe we are surprised this time.

Ron likes to remind us that Axl has all these expectations to live up to, so it's not as easy for a GNR record to drop as it is for a Bumblefoot album.  I get that to a point.  But why is GNR the only big name band with an album pretty much in the can that has to live up to all these crippling expectations to the point where a release simply doesn't materialize?  Why is Axl the only big-name artist who seemingly cannot get this done?  I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly am curious as to what makes a GNR album release a notch short of a miracle.

We know the answer to this... Del James spelled it out... It gets released when Axl is ready to release it. Period.

Here is what gets lost in translation, I think.

Yes, I'd like a new album.  No, I don't subscribe to the theory that they are busting their ass to get one out.

However, if the next tour comes up and there is no album...oh well.  It often seems like people put words into my mouth, suggesting that I am going to march with a pitchfork and a torch if there is no album.  I'm not.  I think its foolish, and I will say so.  But if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.  

I'll likely still go to the show when they come around.  And not to bring a sign to protest the lack of an album.

Axl burned his bridges with the label, and now he's waiting for them to send him a boat.

Well, yeah, obviously this is the case.  But when an album release hinges on when the lead singer simply "feels like it" it makes it literally impossible to predict whether we are close to hearing it.  I think that's what's so frustrating. It's pretty much done.  We've heard this time and time again.  But it's all dependent on when Axl "feels like" putting it out.  Maddening for a fan, really.

Nothing.

Its just that he has a fanbase that will bend over backwards to not ask that question.  Viewed from the outside, this whole thing a is a joke.

But we aren't viewing it from the outside, as detached observers.  We are conversing about it with GNR superfans who treat simple questions as disloyalty.

You need to ask yourself why no one other than us would ever accept any of these reasons as rational.  And its because they aren't emotionally invested.  They don't have the compulsion to walk on eggshells and keep their heads down, lest risk offending the artist in some way.

It is, but at least its honest.

I'd prefer that sort of answer than to hear pontificating about "the industry" or label politics.  That's horseshit.  Just tell me that he doesn't feel any rush and it happens when he feels like it.

Don't church it up.

Agreed.  That response you could at least respect.  At the end of the day, Axl is an artist and should be allowed to release his music on his terms, in his own time. However, when his band keeps rattling off a laundry list of bunk excuses for the lack of a new album, well, it gets old.

The never ending CD tour will commence before any new albums come out.

Any betting man would have to lean that way.  The history is what it is.
 

GNR 2015: 30 gigs and no new album... bring it on! #ConquerTheWorld

Need to repackage the tour with a new name so you can promote it. Maybe a couple of 15-30 second leaks of next album to create a buzz.

So you understand that. Yet, is it fine? No, the same tired comments gets posted time after time.  ::)


Once again, the "why can't Axl when ____ can?" posts.

One week it's: Nobody wants to be like GN'R!
The next it's: Why can't GN'R be like all the other bands?

Where's the logic in that?

The band has talked about the issues they had with the release of Chinese Democracy. It's available for anyone who's interested to read.
The majority of the discussions about the topic in recent years are just people thinking they have some deeper understanding of the business. The answers are there. But that's not good enough for some. They don't seem to believe their favorite artist's side of the story....


Oh, and I thought this thread was about shows.... Why not bring back the "I don't like the setlist" posts. It must've been a few days by now.


/jarmo

As usual, you confuse pushback against propaganda with questions.

Charts about record sales, pontificating about "the industry"...that's what draws rolled eyes.  If you just left it as "its ready when it ready", you'd get none of that.

But the impression seems to be that it can't be left at that, because it makes it seems like Axl might be culpable, and we can't have that.  So we get the stuff about it not being 1991 anymore and the like.

Just say he moves at his own pace.  And yes, there is going to at least be some indirect culpability on his part.  That's life.



We tried, but I think it got moved.

Everybody here knows that the next GN'R album will be out when it's ready to be out. It's fucking simple.
Yet some of you keep debating this year after year. Are you expecting some kind of Nobel Prize for figuring out this massive mystery?

Axl is Axl. You don't like that? Too bad.


When somebody tries to offer some kind of possible explanations based on the release of the last album, it's ignored. It's met with "no, no. Everybody else manages to release albums". Yet, you're the first one to point out how different GN'R is.

Explain that lack of logic.

If you know no band is like GN'R, why do you keep comparing them to every other band? Please. Explain it.

Honestly, I'm curious.

It's like saying "I know Santa doesn't exist, but I wish he gave me a new Ferrari"....




/jarmo

Why do Dj and Dizzy tell us the album is coming out 'soon' every freaking year since 2011?
Year after year?

Explain that please.

Explain it.  :rant:

I think the difference of opinion comes down to how you interpret "there is no band like GNR".

In the one camp, people see that as this huge positive.  They are so unique and just unpigeonholeable, that should be celebrated.

To the other camp, no other band is like GNR because the way they run their operation is completely fucked up.  There is a reason no other band operates like this, because it doesn't really work.

I find that to be the disconnect, anyway.

How about the third camp who realizes that every situation, every band, is unique? Who know that no band makes music like GN'R, who knows that Chinese Democracy wasn't the easiest experience for the band, who knows GN'R has always been this way and won't get frustrated about it because it's not in their hands to fix anyway.

Regarding "doesn't work". You love it when I point this out to you, but this isn't something that just happened now, or in the last ten years or whatever.  Remember the band that started a massive headlining tour months before their proper second album was out? That's wrong isn't it? That's not how you do it. No single was out, no video. But they went on tour playing songs nobody knew.




/jarmo

I would probably put these people in that first camp.  This is really just a different way of saying how unique and special they are, no?

Although there may be several variations of the themes, at their base I see one camp who just accepts everything they are told with a nod and the other who will occasionally say "wait, does that make sense to anyone else?"

And the disconnect between the two is that the former finds even asking such questions inappropriate, and the latter finds NOT asking such questions to be derelict.


And I wish like hell they got back to that, believe me.

Every previous leg of this neverending CD tour had new stuff.  2001-02 had new unheard songs.  2006-07 had new unheard songs.  2009-10 had new songs that had never been played live.

2011-14 has...nothing.  Well, nothing along those lines.  Its running in place.  Even one new unheard song would have been a continuation of progress.  And would have been the overwhelming topic of discussion.

Not necessarily. Because in order to be unique, you know it can be good and bad.
But that's ok. The good outweighs the so called bad that certain fans can't accept.



Let me ask you this. So let's say Axl gives a reason why Chinese wasn't out sooner. Why isn't this good enough for you? What kind of understanding of the process do you have that makes you think he's either lying or the answer doesn't make sense to you? Is it because of all those other bands who aren't GN'R and how they manage?

And if that's the case, you must be aware that artists don't always agree with their record companies....





No new songs, but songs that had either never been performed by the band or not been played live in a while. Oh and Duff who came back to play some shows... Remember him?

Yes yes, you'd have something new to discuss. Great.




/jarmo

I've heard it and I understand it.  I just roll my eyes at some of it, that's all.



Yeah, blonde guy, right?

Would you put that on par with the others though?  The examples I gave showed progress and moving forward.  Having Duff back for some shows, and dusting off a few UYI tracks, while good, aren't a strong argument for progress.  In fact, if its supports anything, its nostalgia.



And wouldn't that just be awful?  The alternative would be what we went through this year was MUCH better, I thought.

Because?




Well it might not be proof of the new album being done. Or maybe it is! Duff can play shows with GN'R because Tommy's parts are done??? ;)

But it showed that Axl and Duff have no issues. Some would say that's a good thing, others might not.





We already did the whole "Now we got live versions to dissect" routine. 2001, 2002, 2006....

So this is something new and exciting isn't it? :D  :hihi:



/jarmo

Because spin is spin.

I've heard Axl's account.  I've heard several other accounts from people that worked on the album.  Either musicians or people at the board.  And they paint a rather consistent picture of incredible wastes of time, absurd lengths of downtime, all sorts of wasted money, and a pretty disjointed process.

So while I might be able to accept on some level that the process wasn't a fun one for Axl personally, I can't just pretend I didn't read that other stuff just because it makes him look bad.  That's never been my deal, nor ever will be.



In a vacuum, it surely is.  In terms of whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, its clearly a good thing.

But its not the answer to what being done that is new or moving the whole thing forward.



Well, it when that alternative is that the biggest news from a entire touring leg is playing YCBM as the opener that one time, yeah, give me the new song discussion.

But its interesting you bring that up, because I've wondered how you handle that around here.  I wasn't here when those things happened in the past, but its cool to know you don't stifle such conversation.

on the setlist issue...from Rolling Stone today...... ;D

AC/DC were ostensibly on the road in support of their new album Black Ice, but most shows featured just four tracks from the disc. The rest of the set was devoted to classics like "Back in Black," "Thunderstruck," "T.N.T." and "The Jack." The setlist varied very little throughout the two-year run, making it easier to trigger cannons, an inflatable "Rosie" and other bells and whistles throughout the night.



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/live-reviews/flashback-ac-dcs-last-show-with-malcolm-young-20141118#ixzz3JRaUQn81
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

LOL...you sound Canadian....apologizing for nothing eh.

Not uncommon.  If you have a complex stage show, you can't vary it all that much.

When people talk about the setlist with GNR though, I don't think its so much the night to night stuff as it is tour to tour.

WTTJ-ISE-MRB have been played in succession at every show for 13 years.  The middle of the show is SCOM-YCBM-NR, in that order.  'Nightrain' is the show closer before the encore.

I highly doubt anyone wants any of those songs dropped.  But they could be mixed up a bit.  It gives the impression this is just one long 13 year old tour.

Are you talking about the anonymous sources?
I'm curious what makes them so credible that you automatically choose to put so much weight in what they say?




You can't "un-read" what you read. But the question is, why do you put so much weight on it?

This seems to be the case with many GN'R fans. That's my point. The whole "Oh, I wanna hear Axl's side", "I wish Axl explained this".... Then it's like "Oh, I heard his side but I believe the other people"....




Depends how you see it.
If for that to happen, a person has to be optimistic, having a good time, then that might mean things have moved forward or are more likely to move forward.... I see it all being connected to each other rather than insulated little events.




A live performance in a public space is different than an illegal leak.




/jarmo

Circles....never ending Circles.

I see the following being discussed all at once:
- when is the next opportunity to see GNR
- can the current lineup be considered GNR
- when can they finish the next album
- should they tour without releasing a new album (they could tour and play a couple new songs without releasing an album - my two cents)
- what should the setlist be
- what is considered a tour
- is GNR a band
- etc.
- etc.

Bottom line .... if you could ask me what I want to do tonight .... my answer would be "go see GNR play".

Who's up there playing is another side/related discussion, but man I would LOVE to go back to Vegas 2014.

So I hope we get some news about shows in the "near" future.....

No.  People who were quoted directly.

I can accept when Axl says some of dealing with the label sucks.  I'm sure it did.  I can also accept when others say they sat around for days at time, racking up charges and wasting their own time in the hopes he might grace the studio with his presence.  Both of those things can lead to an overall slowdown, but Axl is only going to talk about one of them.  

That's what I mean by spin.



I don't see me putting any addition weight in what they say versus what Axl does.  I'm just not going to throw out any other perspective that is inconvenient to the band message.  

Axl is my favorite singer, yet he is not infallible.  He is also not Santa Claus.  He doesn't see me when I'm sleeping and know when I'm awake.  I can speak freely.  It seems that not everyone here can.  Some for plainly obvious reasons, others, for reasons not as clear to me.

MSG was unavailable because it was under renovation the last time GNR played here so I'm really hoping that my show is the first one we hear announced.  *fingerscrossed*

MSG for a residency ? they could sell one show.... not any more than that...

You think it's frustrating for some, but it must've been the most frustrating for him....





Most people can speak freely. Don't you worry.
Some of us don't hide behind anonymous usernames. We stand behind our words.

The beauty of the Internet. Anybody can have a voice and make their opinion heard. Even if you wouldn't listen to them in real life.


/jarmo

MSG New Year's Eve Gig would have been EPIC!
 :beer:

I wasn't talking residency but IMO they could easily do it.
GNR always sells out their MSG shows within the first 10 minutes after tickets go on sale!!!  :headbanger:



Note:  I think 80% sales is when they call it as a "sold out" show.  There are usually tickets still available to get after the first 10 minutes.

Yeah, it would have to be a smaller spot.  They aren't Billy Joel.

Doesn't seem it.

You, I at least understand.  Some of these others, however...not as clear.



My name is Sean.  So there you go.  We're on equal footing now.  No more of all this confusion and uncertainty gumming up the works.

Yes, because you really know how it is...  ::)

Whenever you make comments like this, it becomes more obvious how little you actually know and how much you want to tell yourself that you really do know stuff.





Not even close.




/jarmo

Axl is just looking for a bumble replacement. For right replacement I mean whoever rings his bell-y. But he's not at home, so nobody can't find him cause He's finishing CD2 too...  secret place,  secret songs nobody heard before. Wait till he'll ressurect, just after the apocalipse

Doesn't take Colombo.



You present a concern, all I can do is try and alleviate it.  

I don't even get bogged down on how phony the supposed concern is.  I'm just trying to help, brother.

Would you guys think he would pick DJ or Richard's brain for that guy?  Might be better than bringing someone in cold and trying to shoehorn him in.

Yeah New York has always been good to Axl... and as a New Yorker who always goes to the shows minus this last run in Brooklyn and Randalls Island (budget restraints) ... i'd love to see it

I really don't think they could sell more than 2 shows at the garden tho... just being realistic not trying to be negative about it

Agree to disagree... neither of you will ever give an inch. Especially Jarmo... with all due respect even if he thinks Axl did one thing shady, he could never admit it... let it go. He is not a fan the way the rest of us are. All the power to him.

Agreed.

Personally I love the garden but I would really love to see them do Barcleys Center, I  the sound in there is impeccable. That and its in my neighborhood! :D

Forest hills ... The who and pearl jam are playing this summer

It would be great if Axl would would do a residency at MSG or Prudential Center. I think Billy Joel pulled off the holdout shows due to the fact that he is a New Yorker and has a LOT  of songs about New York.

In regards to the album, I think we'll eventually get to hear it. My opinion, unfortunately, is that we will hear it after he dies. It sounds morbid, but at this rate, that's how it's looking.

I hope he doesn't have to! BF is the shit!

Ultimately I think GNR really is a unique band with unique circumstances. It's like if Led Zeppelin broke up halfway through their career and had to be rebuilt from the ground up while trying to stay true to their legacy. That kind of thing can't be done overnight, especially when the person in charge of the whole thing is making as sincere of an effort as Axl is.

And Sean, can it really not be the case that the people you are referring to are just expressing themselves and that they might not actually have some kind of hidden agenda or motive behind what they say? Or is it that if they tend to disagree with you they must be in some way delusional or on the lookout for the GNR secret police? I really do dig ya but I can't quite relate when you say this kind of thing. It's like saying "Everyone that doesn't agree with me is crazy!".  

Oh, I'd rather he stay.  Both for continuity, but also ability.  He covers a lot of spots live.



I tend give people a harder time who treat everything like SERIOUS BUSINESS.  I don't deny that.  This is supposed to be fun, right?

I'm also a huge believer in give and take.  I tend to give you what you give me.  Let me give you a quick example.  I have posted with Ali at, by my count, 3 different GNR boards.  We rarely agree.  Not sure we've ever had a bad conversation though.  Never really gotten cross either way, and we usually are able to find some common ground.  Always a good talk.

But, and I think I said this just last week, I tend to be unable to really relate to people that talk about Axl like he is their child.  That's a bit off to me.  I can certainly understand supporting your guy, but to a point.  Even if you vehemently disagree with one of my takes, to go right to a place where you are chiding me for being "mean"...I can't do much with that.  This is man that makes music we all like very much.  He's not your baby boy being picked on riding the school bus.

Again, talking a rock band.  Levity should be a little easier to come by.  This is not SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I think I understand. But at the same time, what if people really do see Axl and the current line up in a positive light? I think sometimes it can be less about protecting them and more about saying what you really think. Just because you happen to disagree with someone on a message board doesn't necessarily mean you are treating Axl like your baby, yknow?

Or if someone says that making a personal attack against one of the band members is not something they smile upon, I don't see how that's too out of line. I think it's unfair to dish out personal criticism against people you don't personally know, that's all. Doesn't mean I want to hit someone when they do it.

Seeing them in a positive light is fine.  Its all how you choose to present that though, isn't it?

And a big part of that is thinking that people are out to get you.  Put yourself in my spot.  When you ask why the only parts of your posts that are ever quoted by someone are the obvious points of contention, which will inevitably lead to fights, don't you start to figure that's the only interaction they want?

Compound that with asking why nothing you say that is not the least bit controversial gets quoted, some of it flat out positive by any objective standard.  Then to be told that's because its all part of some deep cover op, as you are a sleeper cell agent here to push your hateful agenda.

GyspySoul, GeorgeSteele, Ali, yourself...we have all been on opposite sides of stuff.  None of you have ever come back at me that way. 

Some do.  They tend to get different responses.  I take what the defense gives me.  And based on what I've seen, its what they want from me.

OK, I think I understand where you are coming from a little more clearly. I do think it takes two to tango though, and if you don't want to engage in such battles yourself I think it can easily be avoided. If one person feels that another person is looking for a fight, the expression "Don't feed the trolls" may come in handy (not calling anyone a troll, but that's how I would feel about someone if I thought they were trying to pick a fight with me). But yeah, I don't know your exact situation or what it's like to be like you so I may just be kind of speaking out of my ass.

No, no, not at all.  All valid points. 

But I don't think I'm just being disruptive for its own sake.  I try to make counterpoints in relaxed manner, for the most part.  I'm interested in a conversation, always.

But hey, I'm a huge pain in the ass sometimes.  No question.  And a smartass all of the time.  I like to say its all in fun, but sometimes I can belabor, I suppose.

Why did my post get deleted???? It's Guns N' Roses related!! :rant:

If there's one thing I admire it's brutal self honesty. I like the example you set in the lower portion of your post! I'll do my best to keep it real too.  Everyone benefits when we get along, even on a message board. It's easier for us to have deeper conversations without them turning into petty arguments when we avoid full on ego battles. I guess there's a lot of responsibilities that come along with being involved in a community like this that I'm only coming to realize over time. 

Yeah, its all in fun.  We're all on the same team.

Your post wasn't deleted.  One of the mods moved it to the thread that already existed on the topic.

Isn't this the post you're referring to?

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=66031.msg1372949#msg1372949

Yeah, always check for a move first.

And entire chain of conversation is sometimes moved en masse, and christened with a new title about the topic that it was about (which was likely a deviation from the thread it originated from in here).

Put yourself in my spot. Somebody posts a message with something positive, but the eye catching part is the twisted facts, the lies or the general contempt for the band. Now, do I congratulate the person for posting something positive such as "I like this song" or ask them to clarify their bullshit comments?

None of this ever registers with these people. Because they want to be able to say what they want, have people think they know stuff without being asked to back up anything they spew. But if you do, they post something like this about how somebody is out to pick fights with them.



/jarmo

"General contempt for the band" is a bit hyperbolic.  Come on now.

No one with "general contempt for the band" even posts here.

I was talking about posts, not persons.




/jarmo

I dont know if it will ever happen, but I would love to hear some of the unreleased recordings from the CD album recordings released in some way...   Dosnt have to be a tradtional 12 track album release either, mb just a 6 track downloadable version or something....   I would also love for it to be untouched...  By this I mean, who ever wrote the music at the time, (i.e robin, paul, bucket, etc  whoever...) leave there original stuff in...   

I have just started listening to CD after giving it a bit of shelf time and I am really getting into a lot of the work put into it and I would love to hear more of the same, by the same people.   I am not a fan of every song on the album, but damn a lot of the tracks have some major legs and are still holding up years later, if not even sounding better in a day in age like now where there is little to no good guitar rock albums out there.   There are some tracks on CD that I have new found respect for the guitar work on and melodys.   Great stuff and I would love to hear more of this music from the time it was written.

I will also give Axl some props as well.  As much as people like to bust his balls for whatever reason.  He sure has a great ear for good guitar work and what a guns album should sound like.

I've done something similar.

I still listen to GNR pretty faithfully.  But to be honest, it was most UYI era bootleg concerts.

But after posting here for a year, and all the talk about the current state of affairs, I put CD back in the rotation.  I've tried to put some of the newer bootlegs in the rotation too, but Axl just sounds godawful on some of them.  But still, I've shifted my focus more towards present day.

I also found myself being more impressed with the guitar work on CD than I recalled.  You get a lot out of that album listening via headphones.  Lot of layers there.

I don't think I have actually ever listened to the album via headphones and will have to give that a shot my next time at the gym or flying.   Only time I really use head phones.

I don't know if I ever shifted as a fan, but just kept loving and following the band.   I find this present time to be a fan the most frustrating though.  With the lack of no new music, with what seems like zero road blocks in the way and no group writing sessions that I know of.   However, I am a big fan of watching them play live and hope to see more of that and the blue ray just released is actually pretty bad ass as well. Seemed they filmed Anton of stuff for years and it's nice to finally see something.  I would like more.   But I am happy with this

My bootlegs consist of a lot of 02-06 stuff.    Just my preference and all time fav line up of guns around these times. Just wish there was more 02 shows out there.   Oh well

"I also found myself being more impressed with the guitar work on CD than I recalled.  You get a lot out of that album listening via headphones.  Lot of layers there." DX

You definitely got that right. Also sounds awesome on surround sound in my small room with the speakers down on the wood floor.

I'm starting to see a lot of "CD has really grown on me" type comments these days. I think that says something about CD.

With more exposure to the music on cd and the already recoded unreleased songs you will gain more mainstream success. 

Yes, perhaps you are right. I think the more exposure the better because the music really is great.

lol well personally I would prefer less exposure and the band to play smaller gigs, I like them better..  However, I want more material released!!!!!!  And with that in and with itself will gain the band more exposure...

I remember thinking that the album is pretty guitar oriented when it was released and how amazing that was. Considered its reputation for being something else like industrial.




/jarmo

I Thinking:

Rock Progressive & Experimental

 8)