Here Today... Gone To Hell!

well you know the story? axl called slash a lier and what not in many interviews about a lot of things?? so ummm is axl really telling the truth or is slash really the truth teller all this time?

Only two people know the truth and they are Axl and Slash. I don't think we will hear the truth any time soon. Maybe a few years from now we might.  [peace]    [ok]

Exactly MR.BROWNSTONE.  They are the only two that know the truth and I doubt we'll ever know.

I'm pretty sure neither one of them are angels....I mean lets look at the past....i'm sure everyone played a relevant part in the dissention of old GNR.  Hell it happens you just gotta live and let dieeeeeeee. Ha anyhow for anyone to think that even thou we don't know what happened but still say one of them is of no innocence HA.

I agree with bill213. I guess neither of them always tells the truth and just those two know exactly so it's kinda difficult to answer the question coz we all weren't there.

When asked why the original band dissented, Axl once made a statement "everybody in the band hated everybody else, except for me.  Slash was fighting wih Izzy over control of the band and both wanted to destroy it."  I think that's a steaming pile of horseshit.  On that basis, I've always viewed Axl as the bigger liar.  

The things Slash has said about the breakup always seem to make more sense, whilst Axl's statements seem to be driven by bitterness.

And keep in mind, if Slash is a liar, that means Duff, Matt, Steven, Gilby, and Izzy were all liars too, because they all say pretty much the same thing about the band's disintegration.

I don't think we're getting the total truth out of either of them.

I agree with Dizzy -I think Axls the bigger liar, definatly in past interviews anyway - cause all the other past members agree with Slashs side of the stroy not Axls and I find it hard to accept that Izzy, Duff, Matt, Steven and Gilby are all liars as well as Slash.

good point. its like 6 against 1. you do the math

its hard too tell....but one of the reasons duff and slash left was over Paul...and then axl said people didn't realize he was just gonna be there till they got a new guitarist. And after a long time he did go... i think a lot of the problems started when Slash decided Gilby wasn't working and him and axl were trying too get a new rythme guitarit

axl is a bigger liar than slash...isnt that a bit juvenile?...so he might have told more lies than slash, then again maybe not...motivations for lieing can be numerous from, covering up their feelings, protecting someone, psychological issues, to outright bitterness...who knows what the real motivations behind the lies are, never mind identifying which one of them lied which can be difficult enough since nobody knows every confrontation they may have had...

ive seen slash being a liar and heard him laugh while others make fun of axl...but ive never saw it the other way around...  

 [smoking] In all actuality who does it matter to for whichever to be the biggest liar?  That stuff is old and I don't think they're gonna try to patch any relationship up.  Just wasn't meant to be.

Yeh but Axl talks bad about Slash all the time - read the interview with gnronline.com he hits Slash with abuse there and in most other interviews he does.

hey people, if they told the truth, we still would believe what we want to believe! we can never be sure what is true.....and I agree with Dizzy!

i think the thing is though...he never says shit about his playing or anything. If he really wanted too bash him hed say hes not that good or the new guys are better. So hes not doing that but hes saying other things that were bad about him. Like hes a lier and that he didn't want too expand. Now i think if he was lien he would add bashing words too his playing but he didn't. So therefore it seems like he could possibly be telling some truth about the whole thing

Remember in Axl's little manifesto he wrote in August....he said There were things that couldn't be done without Slash and he's mentioned it before that Slash was a great player and Slash has mentioned Axl as one of the greatest frontmen ever....but it just wasn't meant to be.....people let other things get in the way of the fact at hand.....which sucks because the fans suffer......These two have a personal hatred for each other not a business hatred

they're  all getting along well, except for axl who always wanted to do things his way,it's obviously all clear!

I wouldnt have called it a manifesto but he said this

"He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. "

Isnt this praise?...

he has a lot of good things too say about slash....it makes me wonder, maybe just maybe slash should have put some of that extra effort.Slash said he was going industrial and i think that was a lie so that fans could take his side on the decision but i don't think it was about that at all.

guys...Izzy, Slash, Matt, Duff...they all get along with each other so well...i mean they still jam together and it's very possible that they will soon release new material of theirs...doesn't that show something? i mean why wouldn't they want Axl with them?

obviously, they don't have a problem with Axl...he has a problem with them...:(

i really hope Axl will get his ass together and do something to make things up...but i don't think he'll do it...

If that's true, why didn't Axl simply tell Slash that he was bringing in Paul?  Slash once said that he didn't even realize that it was Paul Tobias playing "mirror" guitar on "Sympathy for the Devil" until after the song was released, because Axl never told him he was bringing in another guitarist.  Slash's gripe with that was that Axl made that decision without consulting him or Duff.

And remember, Axl also fired Matt Sorum even after Duff explicitly told him he couldn't do it without the consent of the rest of the band.

You're points are taken well. But lets also remember Axl was a junkie too. Maybe not as bad as Slash, thats for sure. But one thing to remember about substance abuse is that it is a disease that needs a cure. Axl's mental control problems are easy to see and point out. In a lot of ways I see that as the main factor of the break-up. Of course there are alot of varying opinions out there.

Will would only get the truth if GNR got back together in the futurer. Thats would be nice if the old GNR did get back together one day   ;D. Lisa

Its probably a bit of both

Even Izzy said that Slash & Duff were still destroying themselves when he filled in for Gilby Clarke in 1993, futher proof was Duff's pancreas exploding in 1994. So yes, Slash & Duff, & Izzy (1990 & before) were all fucked up real bad on drugs, same with Steven.

But the thing thats also been said by each GNR member (I read these interviews today too) that Axl after fame hit him turned into a control freak

Axl wanted to control where the band was going, instead of asking for input from each member, he just made it his word was final. The best example was bringing in Paul Huge. Axl just put him in without notifying any of the members, the members even gave him a try until they realized he was the shits & that he was only there because of Axl. They all went up to Axl expressing there concerns, but Axl told them fuck you he is in the band

It's interesting to read something Izzy said too. Izzy went to school with Axl, he was unpopular & got alot of crap for being a skinny red head. He was never laid in high school & he suffered abuse at home. Then almost overnight Axl was this BIG ROCK STAR, he had alot girls after him & alot of yes men around him, therefore when someone finally said no he was so used to the yes answer he would go crazy.

It changed him. You can see he got caught up in the fame deal. GNR first 2 cd's were hard rock stuff, stuff from teh streets. Then during UYI we see November Rain & Estranged, & all of sudden GNR are soft & clean, in huge mansions getting driven in limo's. You notice that none of the other band members changed, they were still the same looking same attitude, but Axl you could see him change & thats why they broke up, because Slash & co just wanted to make good hard rock, regardless whether it sold or not, Axl wanted to move with the times so GNR would still be making $$$

Axl was always the one arriving late for the shows when he became this big rockstar (& hey look he still does it) while his band mates arrive together at a good time to rehearse, Axl being the team player he is goes up alone, arrives late & leaves his band members & fans waiting

Thats why Izzy left, he was sick of Axl's irratic behavior. Izzy said how the St Louis thing was so stupid as its not the first time they had been bootlegged what Axl did could've killed people like in England in 1988.

Axl naming this band G-N-R (he can fool his sheep, but fans like me know this aint G-N-R, its not the same band, fine replace a guitarist or drummer here or there, but when theres only 1 of the original 5 remaining then thats definately a different band) is stupid & i hope it slaps him on the ass. Dont get me wrong this new band is great, but this aint G-N-R.

G-N-R was Appetite. This new stuff is just Axl Rose & his back up's (lets face it, he considers himself the captain)

So yeah basically Axl bullshits. Slash & Duff go out there sayinG Axl's still there friend & would stick up for him if someone said stuff about him, but Axl just continues to trash the people who helped make him who he is.

Great post Engles.


Yep, Duff was once asked why Axl became so egomaniacal.  His response was "Because people around him maintain him in that state of mind.  They kept telling him he was right about everything."

According to Duff, Axl fired Matt Sorum because Matt told Axl he was wrong about tour scheduling and the way Axl was always late in the studio and elsewhere.

I have some difficulties to hear that all band members perfectly got along with each other. The current Slash/Duff/Matt/Izzy project, I was waiting for it in 1996. If they all perfectly got along with each other, why they didn't do it before? Why is it the first time that Duff and Slash write as band again?

About Izzy departure, don't only blame Axl. He didn't want to do this big gigs, but he was also unhappy because he couldn't even hear his guitar when he was playing. Slash take a lot of place in a band as the lead guitarist. He didn't want to have Izzy in GNR if I recall. Also about Slash, there was all this crap about his "artistic open mind" playing all kind of music with everybody, but left Axl cause he was doing industrial. What? Music isn't industrial only because you play a few samples and keyboard (listen Skinny Puppy to know what is real industrial).

The point is, BOTH Axl and Slash just tell you their side of the story. They BOTH want to make as their are the nice guy and the other is the baby.

I remember reading an interview with Matt, I think from lostrose.com. One day in studio, Paul Huge made a joke about Slash and then Matt decided to leave the studio that precise moment.

Slash, Duff, Matt and Izzy left on their own. Only Steven and Gilby were fired.

Absolutley. I have been of this view for a very long time. As one Gn'R fan to another, I can tell you that I felt, listened to, and saw this change during the years leading up to the Illusions and after them. Of course for me it started with Steven. Though Steven's departure was not just an Axl thing. But you could see that the band was beginng its decent into self destruction. It really was to bad.




Yes this is true from what I have read. And its too bad. Axl always doing things "his way" and not consulting with the band. This does not seem to be a problem bfore Illusions and during the "Appetite" era. Axl clothed in leather is the best Axl I know.



Yes. Its interesting that Axl and Izzy were schoolmates. I also read about Axl's unpopularity. It was something that made him who he is. However, it was'nt just unpopularity. Axl was part of a group of other "outcasts" that exsisted in the small Indiana town. These people were the "different ones". The ones who had problems yes, but ones who were also extremely creative. This was the crowd which Axl hung out. I am not sure if had got laid in high school. But he did hang around other girls back then as well. By the way, this is were axl learned to play piano (in his room) and fall in love with Elton John songs.



Well I am not certain about Axl wanting to make $$$, as his motivation for the band expanding and ultimately breaking up. though I don't doubt it was part of it, certainly something that was on his mind weather it was subconiously or not.

But I do agree with your assertion that Slash Izzy and Duff did not change. And this where the problem arises. Axl was the only one that changed in Guns n' Roses. Now take this for what its worth people, but if only one member of the band changes and the rest don't (for the most part), why did Guns n' Roses have to change the way it did so? Why did axl have to get his way and leave out the others? I don't quite understand this and perhaps never will. But Axl was one person in the band. He could have very easily formed a solo band in which he could do what ever he wanted or felt. Not only would he most likely have been successful with his solo project, (after all he is emensly talented) he would have not only spared Izzy, Slash, and Duff, pain, but us as the fans. I here speak as one. If one looks at the solo projects of Guns n' Roses, we see that none of them with the exception of Izzy's Ju Ju Hounds (in my opinion of course), had some decent success. Slash aslo dabled with a bit of success. But nothing really substantial to build on. Axl on the other hand could have been emensly successful. There is no doubt about this from any Guns n' Roses fan I know. The guy is power, the guy is amazing, And he is a wonderful writer despite what public opinion may say.

So while in the process of developing his own music through his solo project where he could do what ever his heart desires without any descention he could have saved Guns n' Roses. He could have taken the high road people. he could have said to himself, that he needs to have another outlet which isn't Guns n' Roses. Though it may be a related creative outlet for Axl I don't see how any of this could have had a bad effect on any of the Guns n Roses members. All of the heart ache that is Guns n' Roses could have been resolved simply by Axl being just a bit courtious to his band members. And yes I do think they desereved at least that. Its over now, cause Axl is who he is. He will never change. (at least as far as we know)




Yes this is part of the problem. Certainly it is part of the Axl syndrome problem that still exsists today. Like I said, he will never change.



Well, I am sure Izzy's leaving was partly becouse of Axl rediculous behavoir. (getting to shows 2 hours late; ranting and raving about rediculous photo's being taken;) Lets face it Axl here was being abit vein. There are people (axl's former friends) that go on record as saying that Axl had become vein. This one particular person goes on record as saying she told him exactly that; that he is vein. Axl of course dumped her, as he was not up to hearing such things in the hieght of his fame and popularity. (don't ask me for references here the interview does exsist, I just cant remember where).

Now, to make this sound more believable to the non-believers, there is also on record, a friend that said during Axl's pre-Appetite years leading up to AFD, and then after appetite, that Axl seemed to be having identification problems with his identity. That his Axl Rose persona was becoming something that he struggled with and had trouble identifying with which (persona) to deal with reality. It was said that this was an ongoing problem for his friend to deal with.
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Yes agreed. The new band is great, sounds great, but it really aint Guns n' Roses. Too bad Axl had the chance. He could have named his band somethimg else which would have made alot of people very happy. Not only that but it would not be such a slap in the face to his former bandmates. Nice Axl, you get the feeling that he has trouble treating people. In all honesty, its total disrespect what Axl did. Inexcusable. Entirelly.



Yep. I really like the name"RoSe" for his solo gig.


Yep. It will never end. Trust me.

If you see the end in site, please let us in on it.

I agree on the fact that fame has had an enourmous influence on Axl and it has changed him, but it also changed the others. It's not only him. I don't wanna sound like I'm licking Axl's ass, he for sure has been the one where you could see those changes most.
I don't think that it really was his intention to take control over the band, he wanted to make GN'R as big as possible and that wasn't necessarily the intention of everybody else in the band (for example Izzy). I've always thought and still think that... I mean, we all know that all five of them had been on drugs in the 80's and from a certain time on Axl hasn't done too much drugs anymore, but Slash and Duff and Izzy - they were still on drugs a lot as far as I know/remember. To me it seems more like they weren't able to handle this whole "band-thing" that got bigger and bigger, they probably didn't even realize it. And I guess Axl just tried to manage the whole thing as good as he could - well, and he might haven't realized either the moment where he had taken over. He isn't perfect also.
Well, yes, I agree that there is a difference between Appetite and the Illusions, but that's a matter of taste which style you like better. For me both are great, but... if the Illusions would have been the same style as Appetite some people would have said that GN'R has stuck in the 80's and the band isn't evolving or developing. I think that this was an internal problem in the band coz Axl wanted to develope their style and try new things while the others where more excited about doing another simple hardrock record.
Sure, you're right on that, but that's Axl how we have known him and how we still know him. Maybe he'll grow up sometime in future... ;D
You can't blame Axl for the Donington incident where these two people died. He hasn't thrown any tantrum there, they didn't even know about it until the band arrived at the hotel - that's what I've heard from interviews. St. Louis was ridiculous, but...
I won't answer on this one coz we've already had that too many times I guess... ;D
I don't think Axl bullshits. It's not nice what he says when he's talking about his former band mates, but I don't think that he really hates them or anything like that. I don't understand why they can't just be friends, but I'm sure they have their reasons and we all know shit about it. Slash & Co might be over that and Axl... maybe he needs just a bit more time/distance...

I don't think it changed the others at all, except maybe more drug taking & eventually dropping the "reckless life". I read an interview were Duff said that Axl wanted to do a tour real fast before getting the album done (in 1996) because they got offered alot of money, but Duff said he refused as he doesn't care about the money as he has a house, a car & thats all he needs, & would rather do the album.

You can just look at them. Slash, Izzy & Duff still dressed or looked the same way they did during the 1980's while had taken a newer look & even songs they were writing. Slash, Izzy & Duff wanted to do hard stuff like Appetite, Axl was the one who wanted to change, & he changed good musically, as a person he became more & more "crazy"


I think when you replace a member of your band without asking the other band mates & then basically telling them "stiff shit he is in whether you like it or not" is controlling. Sure, Axl didnt just say "i'm gonna be in control" its more of selfishness, instead of coming to compromise he wants it done his way whether or not the rest like it.


I like UYI too, same as Appetite.


No further comment needed :D


Yeah I know i wasnt, but he should know that pissing off fans could cause a riot were people get hurt. Sure I dont mind him jumping into the crowd really, but the fact is, people paid good money to see them, & he blew it off & wasted there money & time by walking off the stage, heck the band even kept playing until Axl said he was going home, he could've just started singing again, heck i reckon that would've been more of a memorable incident, jumping in the crowd, punching some people & getting back up to sing.


yep


...and all we need is just a little patience, yeahhhhhh yeahhh

Honestly i dont think it wouild ever happen, maybe a one off performance but couldnt see an album or anything. its done & over, but i look forward to "The Guns" album more than "Chinese Democracy" even thou CD should RULE

But like you say, they still look the same, this might be a reason for them not getting that much attention...? I mean, there's nothing wrong with not being a "big" band, but since they're mostly doing what they've always done and not really developing new styles (correct me when I'm wrong) they will never grow real big again.


Yeah, that for sure wasn't a nice move of Axl. I don't agree on everyting he has done or does. I just think that he sometimes acts in a certain way and doesn't even realize that this could hurt other people's feelings.


I know he acted somehow immaturely at a lot of shows, he should have stood above certain things, but he wasn't and it seems that he still isn't sometimes. I guess you just have to accept that.


Yeah, your words in God's ear... ;D


I'm with you on that, I also don't believe that anything near a reunion will ever happen and honestly I don't even know if I'd really want it to happen. For now I'll just see what happens with GN'R and this Slash & Co thing...

"Matt was fired, but he told everybody he was trying to get fired."
--Axl

"Axl said 'I'm gonna fire him'.  All because Matt told Axl he was wrong."
--Duff


All of that was Axl's side of the story.  Axl was the one who said Slash and Izzy were "fighting for control of the band".  Slash once said that he almost came to resent Izzy for leaving the band.  He was also pissed off that he had to play or finish most of Izzy's part for thr UYI albums.  If you notice the albums' credits, you'll see Slash is also credited as Rhythm Guitar player on almost all of the tracks.

I agree.  I think the band evolved nicely into the UYI albums.  I really enjoyed them and thought they were a perfect follow up to AFD.

I don't think that's what they're talking about when they say Axl bullshits.  They're talking about ludicrous (yet typical Axl) statements like "Everybody else in the band hated everybody else, except for me." and "Certain former members are riding the GNR name instead of releasing quality material?

Can you believe that last quote even came from Axl?  Of all people?   ::)


I concur.  I eagerly await Slash's project because I know it will actually come out.  Axl talks, talks, and talks about the release of his band's CD, but we see jackshit from him.  Slash and co. haven't even found a singer, and I'd still wager that their album gets released before Axl's.

neither are a liar
they just both see it their way
if u take both sides of the story then u get the truth

Also axl isnt that bad
since the new members all have nice things to say about working with him
and they have been working with him since 1998
and only josh freese left to go to APC
finck left but came back
he just left so axl would write lryics to all the songs he helped write
and paul left just because he was there for the studio

so its funny, the new guys get along with axl pretty well yet the old members couldnt

its just IMO the old members didnt want to put the 110% effort axl expected out of them
so when axl pushed them to be their best and get everything out of them, they took that as axl being an asshole

well just look at slash, izzy and duffs solo albums
they are all sub par
izzys are decent
but they are not even close to being gnr material

would u want any of those slash or duff songs to be a gnr song
I wouldnt have
well that is all they wanted to put into an album
and axl would hve none of that

Slash's guitar riffs and overall musical tone on Aint't Life Grand are EXACTLY what I would've wanted the new GNR album to be.

Crap like "Silk Worms" and "Oh My God" bullshit are exactly what I don't want to be the new GNR record, yet it probably will be.

Oh my god is better than any slash solo song.
And the guitar riffs in oh my god are great and the lyrics are amazing.
You have heard the non lyricial version of oh my god right? If not go DL it and try and tell me those are not great guitar licks.

BTW silkworms is a dizzy and chris song, its not what all of CD will sound like. Its like saying so fine is what all of UYI was like. IT wasnt, it just a duff song. Axl let the dizzy and chris put a song on CD alot like the beatles let ringo have a song.

Just look at the songs we have heard so far. Madagascar, the blues, rhyiad, cd, silkworms, and oh my god.  OH yeah all the songs sound like silkworms, give me a break.

All slash can has done is write cheezy 80s riffs but the new gnr can write things that are in the now.
All the people that are kissing slashs ass and bash axl will change their tune once CD comes out.

The project cd will be nothing special, just like slashs solo albums, so its not really going to matter. BTW aint life grand was horrible.

Worst song Axl has ever put his name on.  Worse than the worst Slash solo song.



You mean like the classic cheesy riffs on AFD?   ::)

"In the now"?  You mean boy bands and rap shit?

You have Axl and Slash transposed in that statement.

What makes you think CD is going to come out anytime in our lifetime?

"BTW", it rocked.  Better than that "Oh My God" crap could ever be

in Gilby's case, Axl and Gilby has different future plans, Axl wanted to do "new & different" and Gilby wanted to do Rock record..they talked on phone many hours and they planned that gilby left....

Effort. Slash, Duff & Izzy were the ones recording writing songs for UYI in 1989 & 1990 while they had to wait for Axl to FINALLY come to the studio, & when he did he was so picky the album was delayed until late 1991. All of them put in effort, its just that Axl is extremely critical & wants everything every split second of the song PERFECT

The new members havent said anything bad because its probably each's biggest break & biggest chance to make $$$, & if they dared say anything bad about Axl they'd be fired, therefore probably delaying CD by 2 more years as Axl would have to find others like the "background" guys he has now who will follow Sgt Roses orders. For a while Slash, Duff, Matt & Izzy jumped when Axl said, they all got sick of it. Dizzy didn't because from what i've been told he is one of Axl's "yes men". Believe me, eventually, whether its 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, these new guys will say the same thing about Bill Bailey, well except Paul Huge & Dizzy Reed probably

"The fans dont miss the old members" says Dizzy, what a crock of crap. Sure, the crowd likes the new Axl band, they still dance to it & sing a long, but if you asked them if they preferred the current line up or the original G-N-R (of UYI i supose) 97% would be saying the originals. Sometimes people want Coke, but theres no coke left or around except Diet Coke & they'll take that not coz they like it better than the normal Coke, its because its the closest thing to it. This is what is happening with GNR

Ill say this again.
Dont give me that crap its because they want to keep their job and its their chance at being big. Its because maybe the problem isnt axl.


Tommy even said he is much more of a perfectionist and controller than axl is. So axl really isnt that band. Its funny when new people say axl is nice to work with, oh that just cant be right because slash and duff said he is a jerk. Well axl was probally a prick sometimes but you would be too if you were trying to make a album and your members were always high or drunk and couldnt get things done. And the reason Dizzy didnt mind axl is because Dizzy wasnt always drugged up like the old members. Btw who told you Dizzy was a yes man? oh did u just call up slash and ask him?
You cant belive what  you hear on the net.

So face it axl wasnt that problem, the new members back that up. And no its not because they are Yes men.  Its because, like i said, he is good to work with, its just the old members didnt want to put 110% effort in like axl always did.

To know how axl really is, you have to go by what the old and new members say about axl.
So who are you going to belive, the old band who was always drunk and high while this was going on , or the new band who is straight and sober while making the album.
 
and oh my god is a great song, i think some of  you need to open your mind and really listen to the song.
I bet you all loved that POS demo song that was going around from the project. Now that was crap.

Everybody appears to be commenting as if they know the true story.  You're going by what you've heard or read.

Unless you were a fly on the wall during every one of those conversations and situations, you only know what each member involved would like you to believe.  Each one of them wants everybody to believe that it was the other person's fault.

Maybe it wasn't anybody's fault........maybe it just wasn't meant to be.  Axl and Slash "reportedly" were interested in making different types of music.  

I say......Excellent, Slash, Duff, Matt & Izzy can continue making classic GN'R and Axl can bring in something new.  I feel that both products will be great.  And for those of you that want to pick one or the other and worry about whose fault everything is.......you'll only have one..........I myself will have two.  

If you're so pissed off about Axl continuing with "Guns n' Roses" as his new band's name, then don't support it......don't attend the concerts and don't buy any cd's they put out.

 :drool:actually, i they talk bullshit both of them, they are piss'd off so they say much shit about eachother

i honestly don't think that either of them think that they're lying. i think they pretty much tell the same story (that axl wanted to go in a new direction but the other guys wanted to stick with what they know). axl elaborates on that fact by saying things like, "Slash was trying to destroy GNR" or "Duff was jealous of my popularity".. In reality we don't know if that's the case, but I'm sure Axl believes that it's true.  He's obviously slightly paranoid but maybe with good reason. On the other hand, Slash downplays the whole thing which might just be part of his personality and how he views the way things happened.

Point is, I don't think either of them are lying. They both believe what they're saying. As for who is right about what happened - who knows? I think it's a little bit of both.

source? i believe you.. its just out of curiosity and something i have to write for school.

Both

Axl and Slash wouldn't know the truth if it bit them.

i also read somewhere that axl, coming to LA, he didnt know how to pick up chicks and where too shy...
so he hung on the corners watching other guys hitting on girls!  :hihi: that came from axl himself in an interview...  ;D

maybe it was on some MTV thing in 89? not sure..

Gotta love when people dig up threads that are 17 months old.   :P

You are right  ;D But I haven't ever read the thread, but now I did. However, I had no intention to make a comment.

I think Slash is a little jelous about not being in GNR anymore.
When he quit, he said i wish them (GNR) the best of luck.
He was refused entry to a GNR gig, he said he would have been keen for a jam but now he's like...there will be no reunion because Axl has tainted the GNR name. Slash just go's with what ever he's feeling at the time i beleive.
He's still saying (with Duff n' Matt) it's not GNR anymore, but they continued to call it GNR when it was just 3 out if 5 remaining, i dont see the difference, if they were in on replacing Izzy n ' Steven then IMO they can be replaced too and i think that they thought it 'could'nt  happen.
Slash was a fukkin' junkie for fucks sake.
GNR would have been finished years before it did if it were'nt for Axl telling them to stop dancing with Mr. Brownstone

You don't see the difference between 3 originals and one original?  That's the difference between a basic band foundation and a solo project.


Axl did a little dancing with Mr. Brownstone himself.  Know what "Coma" was all about?

Yeah i agree. You can't take 1 man's words over 5 or 6 ppl's who all have the similar story and left at different times.

Same old shit once again....

Everyone has their side of the story. FAct is teh band broke up because of creative differences and music philosophies. Thats all there is to know. Slash wanted to be more of a bluesy lets keep it simple jam band, and axl wanted to continue to push the envelope. Dont bring in duff because he would have went with axl if axl handled things more maturely.

No1 is right or wrong. Its a matte rof musical taste and vision. NO1 is lieing either. Slash says Axl is horrible to work with because he didnt involve everyone or because of his musical vision. And he is right. Thats true. Axl says slash is lazy and didnt want to push the envelope. And that is true too.
They both say each wanted to control the band. They are both true.

To keep bringing up the same old shit is pointless. All members have since moved on why havnt you. get over it. Either support gnr, support,vr, or support everyone.

As for slashs solo career. His solo efforts show me that axl isnt lieing when he says slash is lazy. His solo efforts dont hold a candle to what he is capable of. We will see finally som eof those great talents in vr.

Dizzy, omg isnt the worst song axl has ever released. In fact its a fukin awesome song. SO is silkworms. ARe they classics? Absolutely not. No1 is claiming them to be. They are fukin rockin songs. Just because there is no slash on them doesnt mean they dont rock or not acceptable. Thats being a pussy.

What new gnr have sampled us with is somehting credible. ALl of the new songs we have heard show promise and are excellent. And for the most part they are average live recordings. The studios will be a lot better. Slash's solo work doesnt hold a candle to anything this new band has done.

BUt the jury is still out. CD will declare the winner in this never ending debate. Was axls vision worth the old bands breakup?

What if cd is a masterpiece. WHat if some think its better than afd? what if this band does well again? What does that say about slash? To me it says nothing other than he was indeed lazy. It will take nothing away from his gnr work but it will prove once again the same old fact:
Axl was and always will be the leader and visionary of any gnr lineup. He was a major reason why the old are great and will be a major reason cd might be a masterpiece. That doesnt mean you diregard the old and new players around him. It just means he brings out the best in whoever is around him. So if you follow his vision and work hard you will make great music.

SLASH WOULD NEVER LIE!
Slash is an Englishman!  ;D {Like me, but i'm a gurl so i'm an englishwoman!  :hihi:}

Ok the thing is it was fame that took thenm apart!
with everything going on at the time with the bands, fans, families, music industry, it was hard at the time!
too much drink, drugs!

well if we lot were running Geffen in the GNR department.... i bet we would make sure that they were still around today!  :hihi:

Slash lies more than axl since slash story has changed about 20 times now on the break up of the band and other things Axl has done.

Maybe not 20 times but u make a valid point

Let us not forget the old band all hated each other and its taken over ten years for them to get together again, it wasn't all Axl....

Just because Slash presents various aspects of the story at different times doesn't mean he's changed it.  Just because Slash had various reasons for leaving the band doesn't mean he keeps changing his story.  I've yet to once read where Slash has changed his story.


You know, some interesting things are being created by the age of this thread.  Back in November 2002, when this thread was created, Dave posted a message talking about what was going to happen when CD was released.

Firstly, it's amusing how Dave apparently forgot (judging by his new posts) that he posted on this thread when back then.

Secondly, it's amusing how a year and a half later,  younggunner is balking about waiting until CD gets released.

Just an observation.   :hihi:

I cant control what happens in terms of release dates. All im saying is when the material does get released it will be the greatest cd we have heard in a very long time. Ive said that since day1

 :confused:

Since when does refusal to change ones musical direction = laziness?  I guess when Axl says so...

Theres no argument for that theory (especially considering how much work Slash has done since Guns) so you need to find a new word, but in finding a new word youre gonna have to come up with a new concept.  Good luck.

And youll probably give the lame "Yeah, Slash has done work but its not as good as GNR" argument, but anybody with common sense knows that 1) Thats purely opinion...theres plenty of people who really like Snakepit as well as his guest appearences and 2) Quality doesnt equal workrate.  Bottom line is, if theres one thing Slash isnt, its lazy.  Hes actually the opposite.

He did it in going from afd to the illusions. Why couldnt he do it again?

You guessed it. And its not lame its a valid argument.

Sure its purely opinion but im entitled to my opinion. Plus I have millions of people who would agree.
Slashs solo career has not been anything near his work with gnr. NOne of his guitar work or snakepit is anything close to what he did with gnr.

As for his guest appearances. Well it doesnt mean much to me. I just wish he could have kept his playing to himself. A great guitarist liek he was shouldnt be whoring himself like that.imo of course.

Ill take quality of work over just being out there jamming any day. Finally now slash has formed a band that has talent. Finally I will get to hear{hopefully} the real slash and what he is capable of in vr.

You can say how good snakepit was all u want, but fact is in terms of commercial or "underground" success it didnt do jack shit. And they arent even good albums. I could care less about album sales or popularity but the albums, like i have said do not come close to what he did with gnr.

It came down to musical philosophies and directions. Its as simple as that. Slash is more of the "jam" type thing whereas Axl wants to keep pushing the envelope. neither of thoser philosophies is the right or wrong philosophy. Unfortunatley those philosophies have split a great band. Since that split one philosophy has been average at best. The other philosophy hasnt been determined yet. When cd is finally released we will see.

till then slash will always be the angel.

Because obviously he didnt disagree with the changes made from AFD to UYI as much as the ones after...they arent the same you know?


Actually theres plenty of Snakepit songs that could musically stand alongside Guns' stuff.  Theres a few that stand alongside as is.


Playing with different artists is whoring?  Okay...


As usual, you dont get it.

The point is - No matter what your opinion on the actual music is, the fact is that its not laziness.

[

Slash is more about the "rock" thing, and Axl is more about indulging in his newfound industrial fascination.  Making electronic music is not pushing the envelope, and I dont think Axl has ever said anything about "pushing the envelope".  Just another fanboy cop-out, Im afraid.

You're right Booker.  Axl has never said anything about "pushing the envelope".  And contrary to what some people may like to believe, Guns N Roses was never about pushing the envelope.

Yeah, I'm sure the five of them sat down at each AFD rehearsal and pondered for hours, "Okay fellas, how can we push the envelope now?"   ::)

Nope.  The five of them plugged in and flat out fuckin' played rock n roll music.  That's what Guns N Roses was, plain and simple.  Any envelope pushing they did was coincidental.

I see you brought up the same old lame shit again too. Just because Axl likes nin or white zombie doesnt mean the next gnr record will be an industrial/techno album. Once again you bring out a cd misconception.

Ill bring it up once again.Quote from one of rocks greatest guitarists...
"If Axl is trying to make a perfect record, he isnt too far off." He has also said " I had a great time playing, and interacting with the guys, and I was hugely impressed wihth the material they'd already put down...But I'm damn sure it will be worth waiting for!"

Last time I checked Brian MAy wasnt in the techno genre. or could give 2 shits about techno/electronic/rap/rap metal music.

It has also been said that CD will sound more like AFD than people think.

The reason I keep bringing these quotes up is because u keep bringing up the same old" Axl is on a techno craze" bullshit. When it definately isnt the case.

Will CD have industrial elements. Im sure it will. BUt im also sure it will have rock elements,punk elements and a bunch of other elements. Im also sure it will blend in a very special gnr way.

So stop saying that CD will be a certain type of album, when you truly have no clue. And im not saying I do but what i do have are credible quotes from people who have actually heard the material. I also have CD,rhiad, maddy, and the blues all of which are not the heavily electronica songs you are insuating the album will be.

No, they had a vast majority of influences that drove their creativity. The product of those inspirations produced a different type of sound and direction. Hence the illusions. Same goes for CD. JUst Slash decided he wanted to get back to his roots instead of continually expanding.

 : ok:

Hey Dizzy, what i mean is, if Slash Duff Izzy n' the rest wanna fuck off, why the hell should Axl, if one person can be replaced then anyone can, including Slash himself.

Oh...Axl might have danced abit but he's the one who threatend to leave if they didnt stop shooting up, Axl was'nt a junkie, they were.

They both bullshit and lie.  

Wait...real features on gnronline.com?! How far back are we talkin here?  :rofl:

BINGO!   : ok:  Damn, that is by far the most accurate statement you have ever made about Slash!  And as has been said, the desire to get back to one's roots does not constitute laziness!  Just a difference in musical direction.



Yeah, I got what you meant.  My point is, there is a difference between three original members (which can be considered a band's nucleus) and one original member.

Personally, I don't consider Axl/Slash/Duff to be GNR without Izzy and Steven, but it's a hell of a lot more GNR than just Axl.


If Axl wasn't a junkie, why was he in rehab in 1989?  Besides, Axl had a hell of a lot more problems after rehab.  His psychological problems were undoubtedly just as difficult as Slash's, Duff's, Steven's, and Izzy's drug problems.

true ;)