Here Today... Gone To Hell!

htgth
Belo Horizonte
(http://distilleryimage4.ak.instagram.com/11c59322b1dc11e397fb0eaf6d89903c_8.jpg)

From Beta:
Copacabana Palace Hotel
(http://distilleryimage4.s3.amazonaws.com/52686a8eb1fb11e39408122af78613a0_6.jpg)

From Vanessa:
(http://distilleryimage4.s3.amazonaws.com/3f144d02b1fd11e3a3f1129c5e705bd8_6.jpg)

From MrsBumblefoot:
Backstage at the festival in Belo Horizonte Brazil.
(http://distilleryimage10.s3.amazonaws.com/22e9536eb20911e3b39b1272fd2b80f2_6.jpg)

Second opening act is on now.


/jarmo

LOVE the pic of the van!!! :peace:

YES!  All cool photos!

Am I allowed to post the complete setlist of the GNR gig by now or are you going to delete it right away?

Post, brother, post!!! Don't let anything hold you back!

how would you know? aren't the paper ones just a general setlist.

Set change.



/jarmo

mrsbumblefoot About to start the show!

mrsbumblefoot
 #Axl #gunsnroses #BeloHorizonte
(http://distilleryimage2.s3.amazonaws.com/1b258c1cb22011e3a3d112226e1e851a_6.jpg)

(http://instagram.com/p/l3V5TSs3z4/#)
mrsbumblefoot
Belo Horizonte @bumblefoot @gunsnroses
http://instagram.com/p/l3V5TSs3z4/#

(http://distilleryimage1.s3.amazonaws.com/cdb2ca6cb21f11e38a1912f4734c7fc5_8.jpg)

 #PlanetaBrasil #gunsnroses by Viviane Gulart

From Twitter:
Jarmo | HTGTH.com ‏@htgth
cd,
jungle,
easy,
brownstone,
estranged,
better,
Fortis/live and let die

(http://distilleryimage8.ak.instagram.com/730bd78eb21f11e3836e121e66d6e8e0_8.jpg)

mrsbumblefoot#silhouette @bumblefoot @gunsnroses #belohorizonte
(http://distilleryimage3.ak.instagram.com/16171b88b22411e3afa912869ffc82a3_8.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/1962871_289275984571461_822165556_n.jpg)

(http://s30.postimg.org/9oqbhps1t/f77351d4b21d11e3aad4125a064276d3_8.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1187196_289278661237860_2071064563_n.jpg)

(http://s22.postimg.org/nd5ct3g3l/02df6562b21e11e3963412236e9ee816_8.jpg)

(http://distilleryimage4.s3.amazonaws.com/0fbcc398b22211e381f912649f8c7ba8_8.jpg)

by Celio de Assis J?nior

Bumble at the stage (by mrsbumblefoot)
http://instagram.com/p/l3VHOBs3yw/


Jungle
http://instagram.com/p/l3VVWHDYbS/
http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/276c1f8cb21f11e3b44b129f2116e0a8_101.mp4

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/1959578_665264856873941_114961894_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1506880_665267306873696_1486161496_n.jpg)

by Mateus Brayan
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjX5ldRCEAAbdzY.jpg)

mrsbumblefoot@gunsnroses #belohorizonte
(http://distilleryimage5.ak.instagram.com/5c2046ceb22711e3b77e125d7656bd71_8.jpg)

Live and let die
http://instagram.com/p/l3X-UWmHj2/

Rocket Queen
http://instagram.com/p/l3ZXXxmHmJ/

You Could Be Mine
http://instagram.com/p/l3bvkcPXVP/

November Rain
http://instagram.com/p/l3dsFBPXYX/

Don't Cry
http://instagram.com/p/l3e0RSPXaL/

Patience
http://instagram.com/p/l3jCzZvXSt/

Paradise City (by mrsbumblefoot)
http://instagram.com/p/l3j_Qfs37V/

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/1964794_665276363539457_2008217040_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10014642_289296021236124_1845590357_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/1969168_665287046871722_1733675564_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-b-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10150590_665288516871575_1624262143_n.jpg)

No Shotgun Blues yet ???

htgth
Chris in BH
(http://distilleryimage3.ak.instagram.com/6745584ab22d11e393720eb28e453ce3_8.jpg)

htgth
Bumble
(http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/7f93811ab22d11e38a9612370a065fae_8.jpg)

What is Dizzy's solo this time around?  Anyone know?

When I first saw that I was like, "What the hell Buckethead is back?!?"  :hihi:  :rant: :crying:

(http://distilleryimage10.s3.amazonaws.com/f4410686b22d11e381ae127f8aaf9d7e_8.jpg)
by Jessica Faria

What new songs were played? How was the energy?

mrsbumblefoot (video)
Paradise City #gunsnroses #belohorizonte
http://instagram.com/p/l3j_Qfs37V/

How long were the shows so far?

it's sucks.

lol.-what a shocker! Looks like shows are already getting longer & rotating more back in the set list-great to see Better & RQ back! -I'm sure Axl is getting his voice  back into shape & will be back up over 20+ songs a nite again but I'm totally cool with this set list either way   :beer:

Wow, the ending of NR is pretty bad...

I wish they would get their act together. Where's '06-'10 Axl?

About 2h30-2h40.

Thanks all for the setlist and pics!

It's still the beginning of the tour and Axl hasn't been on stage in a while, I'm pretty sure it will get better after a few shows.

No new songs have been played. Not even a new cover. Just the usual 'completely random' set list. The one that 'could' change every night because it's just so random. They just play what they feel like.

Except it never does and they ALWAYS feel like playing the exact same show every single night with one or maybe two old songs swapped around...

Not disappointed, because GNR is living up perfectly to my expectations now. All we'll see from now to until the band disintegrates completely, is GNR playing the old favourites with a handful of CD era songs to give an impression they are still interested in anything other than being a nostalgia act.

Even with songs from CD, GNR it's still a nostalgia act. CD will be 6 yrs. old this year, not exactly a new album anymore. Songs from CD have been played for about 10 years now.

Anyhow, I'm fine with this. I live in the U.S. now, but every time I go back to Hungary, I make sure to catch this GNR cover band called Hollywood Rose (www.hollywoodrose.hu) just to see them play GNR classics. They're pretty good, probably the best cover band I've seen out there.

All this is for me, seeing someone play the classics, and if it happens to be GNR who's playing even better.

.   I think Appetite for Destruction is considered the best by a lot but I'll just crank Appetite if wanna just hear classics- Watching one of the greatest frontman that has ever walked this earth  perform them is definately worth being majorly inconvenienced to witness however! : ok:

Who needs enemies, when you've got fans like this?  :no: I'm way more tired of the constant setlist bitching than the setlist itself. To be honest I don't give a rats ass what they're playing or not playing at a show I'm not attending. And if I were, I'd be happy to see my favorite band live & hear my favorite songs. It's not that fucking serious. I'll take this over the 10+ year wait & silence before CD. Calm your tits, people.  Sure a new song would be nice to hear, all for it, but at the end of the day, Axl nor anyone else really owes any of us shit. His band, his songs, his shows, he can do what he wants and if people wanna pay for it, good for him. If you don't wanna pay or see the show, good for you. But sitting at home surrounded by empty beer cans and refreshing a messageboard thread in hopes of a shitty video of a new gn'r song being played thousands of miles away from your ass is just silly as fuck. Let alone crying and bitching and being "done" over said mystery song not being played.

 :peace:

I agree.   : ok:

If there was a new song played, I'd be more excited if I was there.  Getting a pinched recording of a new song wouldn't be my preferred way to first hear a song.

Ali

Exactly.

Wow, you aced your Jarmo 101 class.  So I take it no one (unless they were at the show) can comment on what the band/Axl sounded like?  Did you see that NR clip?  Putting it in the best light possible...it sounded less than desirable.  But wait, that's probably because the band uses the first few shows as warmups, right?  So we need to wait until the tour's in mid-stream and then the band will be sounding tight, right?

I think she was talking more about the criticisms about setlists and the desire to have a new song played from people following the shows at home.

Ali

Well, there are ways, Metallica released the studio demo of their new song right after they played it for the first time in Colombia

Thats why Metallica have messageboards.

 Retweeted by Bumblefoot
 UYOENT ‏@UYOENT
Amazing photo : Ron ?@Bumblefoot? Thal Guitar solo Guns n Roses by Leonardo Nascimento #GNRRio #GNRSA #500px http://500px.com/photo/64548997?
(https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhRaHR0cDovL3BwY2RuLjUwMHB4Lm9yZy82NDU0ODk5Ny8xMGRmYWYyNDc4ZWNjM2ZkMzUzOGQ2ODBiMjFmZWM0OWZhOWRmZGRkLzEwODAuanBnFMAHFKALABYAEgA&s=FIRX4ytd6Qp7S_YNltAZS4vlD9sEZDeAsRikvuQ6ahA)

Chris
Guns N Roses back and Fukn shit up again. Playing Live is our Drugz #GNR #CPitmanofficial
(http://distilleryimage2.ak.instagram.com/53de8d1cb2b911e384f912ef908233d6_7.jpg)

A S H B A ‏@DjASHBA
Thank you for being such a great crowd Brazil!! I F'N love you ALL!
(http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/b419a438b2bd11e39a0212d31bd79062_8.jpg)

Im talking about ways, alternatives

I really wonder if they'd keep the same set in the US too. I think Hard Rock said at one point that this time's residency will be a new production. Starting out with Chinese again and doing the same thing is not exactly a new production... I don't care much for new songs, all I want from Vegas a 2:30+ hours of GNR.

I always regarded South America as warm up shows anyways, would be surprised if new stuff comes up once they return to the States. Sorry for the fox buying tix to 1st shows, but GNR are never at their best on the first couple of shows.

Thats a rad picture

I know right? What a bunch of whingers we are. Axl has spent all this time, effort, money and emotion to get where he wants to be. They state that they are going to play 3 new songs during the current run and maybe they will, but my hopes aren't high. They were going to release a couple of Blu-Ray's too and two follow up albums to CD and...

Now Axl clearly thinks being out of shape, unable to perform vocally as his own songs require and playing the same stuff over and over is what his "true" vision of GNR really is but all of these things, in the end have amounted to naught but might have beens...

This band isn't a joke it is what it is, a nostalgic cash grab. If they were in Australia instead of South America right now they'd get some of mine too, because I would pay to see them and people on the internet would think I had the "authority" to dislike having heard CD, Jungle, It's so easy, Brownstone, Estranged in that order for the 75th time in a row I suppose?

Because apparently that's the only way you're allowed to support GNR now. You certainly aren't allowed to be critical in any way of this stale remnant of the once 'most dangerous band in the world' even when the band members themselves are...

I don't see how GNR fans can think they have a right to hear a new song it's just self entitlement and you guys aren't even at the show.
The people at the show are enjoying themselves

I am so lost. Who told these freaks that there are gonna be 3 new songs?
My deal is I would only complain about shows I ACTUALLY WENT TO.
You guys are too much. Obsessed with negativity.

That can't be 60,000 people as I heard?  :o  What is the real number?
What is this story that Axl didn't play Rocket Queen in Rio because
of a death. If true and real upset I am glad they didn't cancel this show.

What would you consider a new production?  Like NIN changing from festival to indoor (with band of 8), to overseas (band of 4 to be more aggressive); new setlists each time? That's changes in production.

Who has never thought any of this?  Be honest.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the band played shows for the people on the Internet instead of the paying attendees?
Then you'd all be happy instead of having thousands of fans going crazy at the shows....

 :P

A reminder who the band plays for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhSa1_Cmu0
Sorry if that upsets some of you.




/jarmo

^Right on. : ok:

I agree 100%. It is the way it should be, and frankly, I bet every band feels the same but Axl at least is honest and says it.

Axl said it best  : ok:

VERY well said, Jarmo!  So much of this complaining and bitching is off base.   Seems to me that everyone at the shows in Brasil so far are having a kick ass time! 

The changes with the solos are brilliant and Ron's playing Abnormal

So I imagine the next live streamed show will give "the internet" what it wants, just like the last one did? We'll hear the spoken of 'new songs' I guess?

So long as the internet wants the exact same show they've played hundreds of times since 2006...

It's not a sense of entitlement, the band's manager confirmed they would be debuting 2-3 new songs during this tour.

It's not entitlement,  it's a hope they can actually be somewhat professional for once and live up to their own promises.

And as for Jarmo's 'Axl doesn't care what the internet thinks' one wonders why they chose to release that info on GNR fan sites rather than in a formal press release which is surely within the 'capability' of the band's management, if he cares so little what 'internet fans' think?

He doesn't care about the internet but does huge chats and brings Jarmo on stage reasonably regularly?

Er, yeah. Strong arguments people...

Sorry dude but is a stupid statement. I go to a live shows because I Love listen to live music. That's it.

But i can't justify anymore a man who took over a glorius band because people in there "couldn't get along anymore", who said "i want to bury appetite", who said "it's time to move on" etc etc and then he doesn't produce anything with the new guys.

This is not actually a band, this is  a fuckin' juke box, they don't make new music either studio or live  , that's why people complain. No new songs since  2008, at least. And in the meanwhile he's getting older, he's clearly out of shape and shows lack on interest in everything he could do... He doesn't owe me anything, but he owes something to the history he represents.

Again... He can do whatever he wants, that's right. But at the same time i can say wathever I want. And I say Axl is doing everything wrong in the worst way possible. ex: he wastes his time trying to erase Slash from a fucking videogame claiming the former mate is trying to confuse people about the new line up  and then he doesn't do anything to promote the band but goin' on tour in wich attending people with belly, children and no hair still believes slash, duff & co are still in. I think This is almost the end of the line.

The tone of frustration in your post is childlike.
You don't have to follow a band that doesn't do it for you.
No one wants to hear all this whining.

Go harangue the members who left. Being mad at Axl for staying is ridiculous.
As a fan in it for the long run, the whiners make me sick.

I don't think you understand what a jukebox is.
You want them to be a jukebox and they are not.

You also missed the point of the Activism lawsuit.

I think it is the end of the line FOR YOU.

Easy solution:
Don't be a fan then. No one wants to hear your faulty logic.
Don't you have somewhere better to be if you are unhappy here?

^^ agreed.

no shit. why on earth would u wast your "precious" posting here if you feel that way?? i sure as hell would't. :confused:

Most people who, let's put it this way, are dissatisfied with how things are going with GNR right now have been fans of the band for a long time. Comparing the music and live shows of the old and new band, you see? You might realize that fans here, maybe even the majority of those attending the shows, tend to discover a huge difference in quality and quantity. At least as far as official releases are concerned. Those people are really dissapointed by the lack of any artistic output of the band. Let's not even talk about all the promised stuff that never came out. Being a fan does not mean to always support everything 100% but also to voice dissatisfaction when it's valid. I'd argue that 99% of all cocertgoers visit a GNR concert because of what the band did pre-1995 and Axl is not doing anything to help promote his new cast of players. And he's certainly not doing the GNR-legacy a favor by playing these shows right now. So yeah...all in all it's really a pity.

even if that's true who cares? when I'm at the actual show I'm soo excited to just be there. It's one hell of a rush & I'd take it anyday over the daily grind of work-stress-bills-etc. I could also focus on all the drunken idiots spilling beer on me at the shows- but i really don't care cause it's well the worth the payoff.

The whole point of being a fan after all the orginals left was that it was something new, something fresh! That it was creative, artistically interesting and exciting and forward looking.

Any way I really like Imperial State Electric and Walking Papers nowadays. Heave Tiger is a cool band too.

I think Axl missed the point if the Activision lawsuit.

He lost. Ironically enough because he couldn't get his act together in time...

Not that I'm reading this bitch fest but it's what I love about the GNR community, you never give up on this band even if it means screaming at them from the net.

Overall, I'm with you.

And while I'm never a fan of the endless spin we are sometimes subjected to, I don't know I can kill them for no new songs.  Love to see it, obviously.  But what did we really have on that?  That was only "reported" and "confirmed" by some dude on a message board.  Ultimately, he is just a name on a screen.  He could be anybody, and could be just throwing shit out there.  We don't know.

But what is not up for debate is Axl's voice.  And I see far more people concerned about that than I do about new songs.

Look, we've all seen the clip of the end of 'November Rain' by now.  Its frightening, by any objective standard.  Do you think its a coincidence that its posted on every GNR board on the net, except this one?  Not for one moment.  There is no putting a good face on that clip.  Its just bad.

And that is not a "people on the internet" problem.  That is a very real world, you can obviously hear what we are all hearing type of problem.

Axl's not playing for the people on the internet who aren't at the shows and doesn't care what the internet people think of the set lists.

"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet."

How does that have anything to do with how he sounds though?

I'm a big believer in the concept you can't lose what you never had.  So while I'm sort of bummed there are no new songs, how the hell do I know what I'm missing?

But what about his performance of the classic songs that I have heard him sing for years?  What do "people on the internet" have to do with that?

no that clip of NR doesn't sound good.... but i dont want to be critical of that... the guy is not 30 anymore... i dont know what people want from him there...

my gripe is just that new songs would go such a long way...i dont care if they play mostly the smae songs in the same order.... but...come on man... the guys in the band want to do it..... what is the hold up in 2014.....

to me thats not "complaining about the setlist"...i just want the band to more forward...you want people to stop comparing the band to older versions..well then create a new legacy with ur "new" band... and by new band i mean the one that is years on old already, he says he wants to bury Appetite and have his band evolve musically... i mean that was his main issue with Slash right? that Slash didnt want to evolve or change the sound at all... well then... change the sound and let us hear all these amazing ideas you had...what are waiting for ....

jarmo is quick to show you the clip about him declaring he doesn't play for the message boards, but he doesnt show you the clip where he declares we change the setlist each night so fans dont see the same repeat show ....uhhhh really?


its frustrating to me... to each their own.. I wish i could be one of these people around here who just see it as Awesome! and be thankful for what we have...but I just don't see it that way


I have seen this show close to ten times now.... Loved it every time...it is just time to move this ship forward

You just need to realize they're not out to please you. The ones who aren't at the shows.

Of course all hardcore fans on the Internet would love a bunch of new songs and four hour shows. No shit.

But when you see the crowds at the shows sing along to the songs and go ape shit, it's kinda difficult to start whining about the song selection.....
Because obviously it works! Not for you or the other guy at the keyboard on a different continent, but it works for those who paid and stood in line for hours rain or shine. Those who waited for years to see their favorite band, those who saved money to buy a ticket and so on.


If you actually read what the alleged "promise" of new songs said, you'd have nothing to whine about in that regard. It didn't say this tour, these shows or anything like that. That was your brain interpreting the words in a way it wasn't meant to.



/jarmo

yeah...great...

my man I appreciate ur place..gives me a place to shoot the shit with fellow fans without the insults and constant crying

but ur opinion in any gnr debate.....carries zero weight, you don't address the issue just tell everybody why their wrong or why they shouldnt waste their time getting upset over this or that


id love for Axl to prove you right on it all

and like I think was said earlier...

nobody has ever ever ever said the people at the show are not going to rock out every time no matter what they play

because if ur going to see them in 2014 you love Axl rose..and ur gonna love seeing him up there  no matter what

some of us want more tho....go ahead... blast us for that

Jarmo, just because people sing to the old stuff, doesnt mean that they dont think the band could play a couple of new tunes.
Its a bit naive to think just because people look happy, you can tell what they think.

You go tell the people at the shows that they shouldn't have enjoyed themselves too much because you think the band played the wrong songs in the wrong order. Go ahead.


It's naive to think somebody is happy because they look like they're having a great time? Maybe. But it's the first assumption I make.




/jarmo

Well, then I guess its a good thing that I just said that exact same thing.  What a relief.

Look Jarmo, bottom line, he sounds like crap.  And you can lecture "people on the internet" and post rants from 2006 until God calls you.  Neither are an answer to the question "why does he sound so bad?"

Sure people are happy. I am always happy too when i see them. But wanting different songs doesnt make you unhappy.
You understand what i mean?

You assume that everyone in the crowd is completely satisfied with the setlist.
Thats just naive

Its a misdirection answer not even applicable to the question asked because the real answer is an inconvenient truth best left unaddressed.

In Jarmos defense i have to say, that he's just a spokesperson.

In that case it's really hard to believe Jarmos mantra about Axl don't caring about what people say on the Internet. If that's really the case and all the people coming to the shows are happy and stuff, why have a propaganda minister in the first place?

Are you sure "the band's manager confirmed they would be debuting 2-3 new songs during this tour"? 

I have not seen any indication that Fernando made those statements.

Ali

No, it was just a "reporter" at MYGNR.  Whatever the hell that even means.

Hoping for new songs was pretty foolish.  Hoping Axl can come out and do justice to the classic songs that he's been doing for years, that should not be a hope.  It should be a reasonable expectation that is met every night.

They might want to consider however that fans like myself thinking of traveling from the UK to Las Vegas might think twice when the current tour indicates that it will be the same tired show/format.

Let me just share a section from an update email from metallica.com about their current South America tour-

This was the third time that Metallica has performed in Bogota, Colombia.
This was the first show of the "Metallica By Request" tour where each member of the audience had the opportunity to vote for the setlist before the show.
Metallica debuted a brand new song entitled "Lords of Summer."
In addition to "Lords of Summer," three songs were performed in Bogota for the first time:  "The Unforgiven," "...And Justice for All" and "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)."

You see what i'm saying is it is really not difficult to keep things fresh.

Slash did an article with Classic Rock recently where he talks about sharing video missives from the studio. He says 'I like putting stuff out there. It turns people on. All things considered, I don't think mystery really works in this day and age, we're just moving at too fast a pace. The hard-core fan that the mystique works on are fewer and further between.' I completely agree (and I'm in no way wanting to start an Axl vs Slash debate here). I just am dumbfounded as to what Axl is doing.

I think that the fans on this board are quite in their right to complain. And as for Axl's 2006 rant...We're now in 2014!! 

no there was no quote from fernando

just the same source was spot on about a SA tour and vegas plans, and i think had an inside track with w the DVD till it shockingly fell apart

so since the source was accurate with those things, it was not unreasonable to expect the new songs to come to fruition

but like jarmo said... nothing was promised... and we made up those expectations in our own head!

Comparing Gnr and them really are night and day... im not a fan of them... but they do things.... well the way we all wish GNR would no matter what anybody says

who wouldnt love a band taking requests ?!? putting out dvd's, new songs, all that kind of stuff

So you're saying the fans requested songs that they mostly had heard already?

How come?




/jarmo

When in doubt, change subject.

I don't think that is what it says at all. They performed songs for the first time and a brand new song. There is not really an argument on this one Jarmo. They have been playing the first 4 songs in the same order since 2009.. It's boring.

I'm usually the one leading he charge for new songs, but I think you have to walk before you can run.

He sounds dreadful on songs he's been singing for 20 years.  What sort of realistic expectation can we have to hear something for the first time and be impressed by it?

The elephant in the room is perhaps the fact that new songs might have been in the cards, but Axl knows he's not up to it.  Now...one might ask how the hell he didn't have himself ready for the start of the tour, but haven't we been asking that one for years?

It kinda amazes me that people still give shit to gnr becauce they do things the way they want to do it. As far i know its been like that since day one and they are one of the only bands in the world that work that way. And thats the way i like my GN'R . Note GN'R not Metallica.


Plus i didnt hear anything wrong with Axls voice in the videos i saw. Actually i enjoyed them.

The clip of 'November Rain' going around...no red flags, that you hear?

everything is subjective....you might think he sounds good... but that isnt the majority vote

GNR has nothing to do with what they were since day 1, so that argument doesnt work...is Axl still a stubborn bastard tho? yes  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9IQdy94VAE
this one ? Yes, i double checked i still like it

No, not that one.

The clip I am talking about is the end, which is a god damn train wreck.  This clip just happens to cut off right before that.

Can you send it to me? all i could find was from rio exept that one.

Wow i can't believe the "bitching" in here.....

Everything has to be perfect, sound perfect, look perfect?
When did this become the symphony and stop being a Rock N' Roll show!

People have fun, the band has fun.....Fun Fun Fun!  I think thats the aim for the night.

That's it that's all.....

I can hardly wait till VEGAS

My point was the information is only as good as the source.  We don't know the source.  We don't know the context in which that information was relayed.  There could have been some miscommunication or misunderstanding of some kind with regards to the 2-3 new songs.  I don't think MyGNR was at fault in any way or intentionally misleading.  

Ali

in my opinion if you guys don't like the setlist and this and that, dont go to the shows or watch a crappy bootleg on youtube and complain axl sounds like shit! God I'am just glad i get the chance to be able to see my favorite band in concert, i never had a chance to see them in concert till 2006 and ive been a fan since i was a kid i am now 33 years old. Vegas will be my fourth show and i dont give a fuck if i got the same exact show time after time, because this current band is my favorite by far when it comes to performance and reliability.

Here we go :

http://youtu.be/2D7QypeLbSM

Now I ask you, in all candor, how is this not a problem?

Here's a suggestion, since you guys will bring up the same things for every show, so why don't you just start a new thread in Dead Horse where you can complain about the shows you're not attending until the cows come home.

 : ok:



/jarmo

And thats why i dont hold bootlegs very creditable at all, ive seen boots of shows ive been too and they sounded like shit but the shows themselves were great  : ok:

Allright they messed that one up.
What can i say, theres many things that can cause these things happen and these things happen from time to time no biggie, they messed up the last 10secs of November rain

Yeah, could be.  Shit does happen, I can understand that.

But what drives me nuts is when people tell me he was "on fire!" and "better than ever!" and then you produce this clip and ask how they reconcile it.

yeah nobody remembers when you do good, but they never forget when you fuck up. 68 more days till show time  :beer:

The fact that you are so suddenly meek and not nearly as chatty as usual leads many of us to believe even you can see some of the problems here.

We recognize you are in something of a tough spot.

I'm sure you guys caught Brian Johnson perform "You shook me all night long"
with Billy Joel 2 nites ago.

I loved it but IF I was a Brain hater i'd have to say that was his worst performance of that song.

Let's be clear
     I would never be a hater, makes no sense to follow anyone I'm not
genuinely rooting for.  ???

The whole outtro was messed up by the band and Axl.  It happens.  They're all human.

I heard a LALD + TIL clip and he sounded o.k.

Regardless, I'll be seeing them in Vegas in June.  I last saw them in Vegas in November 2012.  Same band and same venue.  That's as close to an apples to apples comparison I can get so I can make my own determination on any difference in performance quality.

Ali

because your listing to a fucking bootleg, shot from a fucking phone, at a fucking outdoor show  :confused:

I think calling that a "train wreck" is a bit strong. The band doesn't miss a beat - not sure how in on band idioms you are, but the term train wreck usually refers to an instance where the whole band falls apart - a complete derailment, as it were. So, that's not happening here. As far as Axl, I went into the clip inclined to agree with you, but it's actually not as bad as you're making it out to be. It sounds like he could have a little out of sync between his piano part and his vocal, but nothing serious. His high range sounds strong, so that's working. In fact, if he wasn't pushing so much air there, his vocal would be sitting much more "in the mix" and be less noticeable to you. All in all, I'd say it's extremely minor, and the type of thing that's liable to happen in live performance. Name a performer, I bet we can find an instance of them making a noticeable mistake on stage, if we're sufficiently determined. And, things like that are most apt to happen on songs that you've been playing for 20 years, because let's face it - it gets boring. Do I think GNR would be more exciting if Axl got some new songs, and played some smaller venues for a change? Could he be a little more in shape? Yeah, for sure, but let's restrict our complaints to things that are actually happening.

Well, maybe you're not aware of the fact that I'm actually at the shows. So there's less time to chat with you about the same issues over and over again. No offense.
Sleep is more important than having these discussions with you. Sorry.



/jarmo

still think you got the best job n in the world jarmo

Just ignore the agent provocateurs here.
No one said Axl is on all the time.
Are you gonna post the best ad worse of everyone or just Axl?
I've seen many clips with people throwing up on stage, falling off the stage,
and totally shit-faced performing. I have watched zillion of old performances
of seminal bands, it's messy.

It happens. Move the f--k on. Nothing to see here.

Here's the thing.

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  People noticed.  Not everyone loved it.

But when he came back in 2006, it was more like the Axl we knew.  And people said that.  To this day, most people consider that 2006 tour to be the best he has sounded since he came back.

What I'm establishing here, is this.  People react to what they are given.  Way of the world.  But I don't think its fair or accurate to keep insinuating that people will complain no matter what.  

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

They were cleaner, not higher. The melodies didn't change. Again, let's be accurate.

No offense taken.

Just as I would hope you don't take offense to the fact that the few days you were not here, there were no fights in any threads.  Perhaps there is a connection there too.

You don't think he was singing some of the classic song in higher tone than we had heard previously?

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali
[/quote]

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

He's right.  The melodies did not change so he was not singing a higher note.  He was using more of a head voice, so tonally it sounded different.  But, it wasn't "higher".

Ali

What I think is that you're mixing metaphors. He was using a cleaner tone, but the thing that would make it higher - ie pitch - didn't change. That's not debatable. Or, not successfully debatable, anyway. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKOWUFt4Ngg

now that is a train wreck in classic Replacements fashion.....Tommy on lead....Freese on bass...... :rofl:

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.
[/quote]

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali
[/quote]

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

Very much agreed.  Back in the day, I don't know how the hell he ran full speed like he did and still be able to sing well.  Definitely the exception and not the norm.

I was calling up some Youtube clips from 1992, and he's like a track star out there, sprinting side to side.

he sounded like shit in 1991 and 1992 at times as well...people have very selective memories. :-\

The best his voice has ever been, in my opinion, was 1993 Skin and Bones tour and 2006. That is how it goes though for a guy who sings like he does....

I would say 2006 is easily the best since he came back.  Not even close.

1993 is strong, I agree.  Those bootlegs show him in great form.

1991, the initial summer leg is rough.  But I don't know I can recall too many problems in 1992.

However, at no point in any of those years do you get the hit or miss fluctuation on a nightly basis that we get today.

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Yeah, but you have to know that time takes a toll on singers. I'm not saying he's always doing his best work right now - maybe the most damning thing is that when he's on, his voice seems to be so nearly intact - but, when you hear what's happened to Chris Cornell, Sebastian Bach, Rob Halford, etc over the years, you can't fight the facts - rock singing is not meant to play out over a 20+ year career. The attack you use when you're young, and can get away with it, just doesn't pan out when you're in your 50's. I'm sure we'd all love it if that weren't the case, but there's no getting around it.

Very true.

And his style is a young man's style, I suppose.  Its yet another comparison you could make with Mike Tyson.  Mike fought a young man's style.  Even in his prime, there were question as to who he could sustain it once he was no longer 22.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali
[/quote]

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:
[/quote]
Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali
[/quote]

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.
[/quote]
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali

So let me get this straight.... Some of you are claiming Axl's voice is shot because of a clip of November Rain that you saw? But people who were at the shows said he sounded fine? And he sounds just fine in the numerous other clips from said shows? Because obviously one section of one song represents the entire show/tour right? Because there's no way one of a million things could've happened to simply throw his voice off for a second right?

Please, go outside or something....

How about this?

I produced a clip you don't like.  Clearly, it should be dismissed as its only one clip.  Very well.

Please produce another clip that not only refutes what I say, but proves what you say.

I'll even hold off on going outside until we can straighten this out.  Deal?

Didn't say I was right. Just posting my opinion, just like you. But unlike you, I was at the show.
Your obsession with me is flattering though.

I don't review shows by watching Youtube clips.



/jarmo

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali
[/quote]

I don't need to work on my reading comprehension skills, Einstein. I only don't feel the need argue with you over four or five pages over the assumptions you make in order to excuse why Axl sounds like shit. It could very well be that Axl practices proper breathing techniques until hell freezes over. It could very well be that he's sounding like a beaten dog because he does not practice at all, is out of shape and generally gives a fuck because he is surrounded with yes-men who fail to give him a proper kick in the ass. So what we're talking about is nothing but guesses...you guess, I guess. What we see however is no guessing. It's the same show we've been seeing for ages by now with an Axl who sounds and looks nothing like his old self.

Q : Shame they didn't play any new songs.  Do you think they will on later dates?

A : You weren't there.  You were on your computer.

Q : How did Axl sound?  Some of the first clips I saw sounded rough.

A : The people in the crowd were singing along, having fun.  Who are you to judge them?

Do you see the disconnect here?  Neither of these answers have anything to do with the questions being asked.

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali
[/quote]

What you're saying is basically that people who are not going to see the artist play live are not entitled to an opinion. Taking that logic a little further means that you are not allowed to be a fan of any band you've not seen live yet because it's impossible to judge the performance without attending a show. Dude, come on...you live in western Europe...you cannot be so 1984, can you?

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

Does anyone ever hear the same arguments about other bands on Youtube GNR fans try and give each other?  I'm seriously asking.

If someone sends you a link to a singer or band, is your first instinct not to see how it sounds?  Or do you start researching the acoustics of the building?  Running down the specs on the phone used?  Questioning the make of the microphone?

How can people not see that for what it is?

Even if you see youtube videos from London 2012 and then watch the 1080p Livebeats version Axl's voice is the same, the same happens with Bridge School stream and audience videos, I dont know why people can't have an opinion here, only opinions that say "this is perfect, this is amazing, good show, Axl sounded perfect, amazing setlist, people where having fun" are accepted, and if you say something else, there's always an excuse, GnR is my favourite band and criticizing and having a different opinion is not hating or trolling.

PS: sorry for my bad english.

It reads just fine.  And I agree with you. 

No one is saying don't say when things are good.  But if something is bad, you can say that too.  Don't need to start spinning the Wheel Of Excuses.

I've got three tickets for three nights in Vegas and a clip of misplayed ending to NR doesn't have me trying to return anything.

Can't wait till Vegas!

You really catch Axl's mic?  That's pretty cool.

Were people ripping and clawing at you?

No it went right in my hand.  I don't think most people could even see through the confetti.  I let people hold it outside after.  I want a whistle to complete the set now (dreaming big).

Hahahahaha.  That's awesome.

I never would have let anyone hold it though.

I don't need to work on my reading comprehension skills, Einstein. I only don't feel the need argue with you over four or five pages over the assumptions you make in order to excuse why Axl sounds like shit. It could very well be that Axl practices proper breathing techniques until hell freezes over. It could very well be that he's sounding like a beaten dog because he does not practice at all, is out of shape and generally gives a fuck because he is surrounded with yes-men who fail to give him a proper kick in the ass. So what we're talking about is nothing but guesses...you guess, I guess. What we see however is no guessing. It's the same show we've been seeing for ages by now with an Axl who sounds and looks nothing like his old self.
[/quote]

You're not still not understanding at all what I said.  You're even mistaken in the context in which these are being brought up.  These are not a "now" issue, they are issues that has been present his entire career and have ALWAYS adversely affected him.

Ali

Now WHERE did I say that? Show me the quote!
Before you go further, show me the quote where I said that.



That's your logic, not mine. :)
So keep arguing with yourself.



I enjoy watching things on Youtube as much as the next guy. But I don't post show reviews based on them acting like I was there. :)
Does that mean I'm saying you shouldn't watch Youtube videos and if you do you're not a fan?

What does it all mean? What did I say? Did I say it, or didn't I? You tell me.

According to some, my opinion isn't valid because I was there. Opinions based on Youtube clips are more valid.
Funny.

I've had too many coffees today. Or maybe I didn't. Maybe that's what I meant.



/jarmo

I watched a full chip of SCOM from Rio. I didn?t hear Axl at all, not a single word. Was there sound problems?  I heard other clips that Ron?s wife posted from Bello Horizonte. Axl didn?t sound good, for example in RQ and NR. He did sounded decent in Patience.

 Indianapolis 2011,that one was great. I watched it the full show on youtube. But others may think something different. It?s a matter of personal taste, prefferences and opinions.

I like Oklahoma 92 a lot more than Tokio 92. I like Philly 88 and Melbourne 88 a lot more than The Ritz

What?s wrong with that?

No one is saying your opinion is not valid. 

You say it to them, of course, all the damn time.  But no one ever says it to you for whatever reason.  Its not a bad set-up, really.

But one thing you do say, and say often, are statements that have nothing to do with anything.  Questions about any possible new songs, or vocal quality should never answered with "I guess all the people that were singing along disagree". 

That's an answer that doesn't mean anything.  Not unless the question was "hey, was the crowd having fun?"

Hello??  :wave:

Seriously??  ::)

By that statement you're saying that anyone else's (me) comments to refute your theories/opinions are 'discussions' but Jarmo's comments to anything is a 'fight'??

I'd be flattered but Me thinkist I smell a jarmo-stalking troll.

---

In all candor, the first clip that rebelhipi posted is 6 minutes and 37 seconds long and there's (by your own admission) no issues but you have a problem in the additional minute and 50 seconds clip that you posted where Axl is singing for 20 seconds in a higher pitch than the rest of the entire song??  :confused:

So in your opinion Axl should quit the biz because of 20 seconds of a less-than-perfect sound quality youtube??  :hihi:

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

I think that is the most logical read by anyone looking to have a serious conversation.  Yes.

We can't have a serious conversation until some of you start saying something constructive and/or logical.  : ok:

They're youtube clips!!!  He sang in a higher pitch for 20 seconds at the end of an 8+ minutes song!!! 

I'd think people would be more impressed that he could sing in that high a pitch after singing for 7+ minutes.  :P

I don't know what to tell you.

If you think he sounds dynamite, hey...salud. 

The youtube videos must be taken from a shitty phone

OMG this cant be happening.... :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iys1OBhtNmY

thats from a crappy cellphone too...compared to all 2010 performances, his voice is overall the same (rasp). And videos from 2014 are different BUT they are similiar when compared with the same year.

Maybe later in the tour people will have nicer phones and he'll sound better.

you find that funny why?  the sound on those youtube clips are recorded off the sound coming out of the audio system at the venue plus all the sounds in the crowd.  it's not like they're soundboard recordings.

But you can clearly hear his voice, the people from the audience doesnt change his pitch or sound.

Because the joke always is that whenever he sounds bad, well...can't trust Youtube/cell phones/human hearing, etc.

Clips where he sounds good don't seem to be subject to such scrutiny.

It was 20 seconds sung in a higher key than the rest of a song at the end of an 8+ minute performance in the middle of a 2+ hours show!!! 

No, no, you are right. 

I'm serious.  That clip alone is not the end all, be all.  I would never say it is.

However, take all the clips together.  I'm not talking about the ones where you clearly hear more fans than you do Axl vocals.

Would you agree that with clips from each show as the tour wears on, we will able to be formulate a rather credible opinion in a few weeks?

But you  hear him in those seconds, I never said he sounds good or bad.

If by 'credible opinion' you mean that if in peoples' opinion Axl nailed his vocals for 2 hours and 55 minutes of shows that average 3 hours for each of the 12 shows on this leg of the tour.  Then yes.

But to pick out 20 seconds here and there from clips is unfair scrutiny IMO.

I'm not sure I'm following what your point is.
Yes, you can pretty clearly hear what was recorded off the sound system at the venue.

And I'd agree with that.  No doubt.  

I would make the decision over time.  A bad song, a bad night...hey, that shit happens.  No question about it.  

I look forward to every show because I want to hear him sound good.  That is what I root for, and what serves us best as a fanbase.

But what will not happen, is my stating he's "on fire!" and "killing it!" if he's not.  I just don't think that helps anybody.

And, just in general, I know what he's capable of and what he can do.  I have over 22 GB of Guns N' Roses concerts on my iPod.  I know what I'm looking for and I can't be snowed.

But sometimes, its claimed that its unreliable and faulty...IF...he does not sound good.  But, only if.

No one has ever put up a 2006 clip and told you not to trust what you hear.  Do you see what I'm saying?

You dont watch a 2010 video and say, thats just a recording with a crappy cellphone off the sound system at the venue and people screaming  :confused:

Exactly.

Youtube and cell phones seemed to become unreliable around October 2011.  Which, coincidentally, was Rock In Rio.

How else are people supposed to take that?

Its not about hating everything 11-14, there are mindblowing performances aswell ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5n6c1Q8DOQ )

PS (offtopic):  I included parts of that video in my Happy 52? Birthday Axl from Chile video  :peace:

Many nights from that time period, I thought that was the best song of the entire set.

Youze really don't remember the same scrutiny during the 2006 and 2010 tours??
You'll have to take my word for it but it was definitely out there.
Has nothing to do with the recording equipment, crowd noise, acoustics of the venue, etc. 
Some fans tend to pick out a few, shall we say, 'off' moments and make it like the entire show/tour was a major fail. 

IMHO, we fans get way more than our money's worth from the ENTIRE performance and show GNR & their crew put out there each and every show. The stage set-up, the video screens, the fireworks, plus 8 of the most amazing artists.  There's way more to celebrate than there is to criticize.... but then we wouldn't have a need for fan forums.  ;)

I agree  : ok: but I don't know if now its a good moment, lets see :)

You have to watch the full show to be able to review it

I'd agree with that, really.

But, I have soundboard recordings from 2012 I was advised didn't count either. so.....you can see the bind I'm in.  After awhile, it becomes evident that nothing you can produce will be acceptable, if its not what people want to hear.

Quick example :

I think the 12.19.09 show is probably the best GNR show after the album finally came out.  Listen to it all the time and would hold it up as an alltime concert from any era.  I have shows from 2010 that I think aren't quite on that level, but still very good.  Then I have shows from 2012 (which are actually better sound quality than the 2009 or 2010 shows, in truth) and they are a total disaster.

I am not slanted pro OR con.  I react to what I hear.

I agree that the flow of the entire show is an important factor.
That being said, it always amazed me how Axl can stop in the middle of a song to call out something going on in the crowd but then pick it back up at a level like he was never interrupted. Amazing!

That is truly incredible.

I have shown more than one friend the 'You Could Be Mine' from the 12.05.92 show, and they always remark how nuts it is.

Explain this then:





Yeah well, at the end of the day, your opinion doesn't matter to the guy in the audience who had a hell of a time. Does it bother you?
That's all I'm saying. Does my opinion matter to that person? No.

Does it bother you that somebody who was at the show points out to the Internet judges that there were thousands of people at the show who had a great time even though the performance wasn't to your liking?

What's wrong with pointing that out? I'm not lying, I'm not making shit up, I'm not posting an opinion. I'm pointing out a FACT. It's not up for a debate nor is it about personal preference. People had a great fucking time.

Fact.

In the middle of this bitch fest from people who were not there, I added some reality from the real world to your Youtube reality.
If the customers were happy, who are you to say they are wrong? Do you get it?

And I'm sorry for interrupting your LoveFest while you were busy agreeing amongst yourselves.  :-*




/jarmo

Gosh, I guess I am missing something. It does not sound that bad to me. It's rock n roll, not the symphony. It sounds like Axl put some emotion into the end and his voice was high, so what? My question to the whiners is how many of you could do what he does night after night, sing and perform at a high level? My throat is sore just from screaming after a GNR concert, and I was not singing or performing. I cannot imagine how hard it is for a 50+ year old to do what he does, so unless you can walk in his shoes you should not complain (as the old saying goes).

I would label this an overly nasty comment of a personal nature that does not further the debate. 


I get it just fine.  Please do not doubt for one second I don't see what you are going for.

Its all to avoid what is, in essence, a yes or no question.  Does he sound good, yes or no?  That's it.  Its one word.

But you duck it like a drunk coming up on a DUI checkpoint.  You'd rather try and change the subject to who sang along at the concert.  Or some rant Axl made in 2006.  Or some other meandering diatribe about "society" and "haters".

Its a yes or no answer, guy.  The only reason to introduce that other shit is to avoid answering that simple question.

It appears we have a difference of opinion.

Here is where I am coming from.  I am listening to a GNR show from Ottawa 2010, as I type this.  From that show, until present day, I get a sense of...man, what happened here? 

I think if you take a song like, say, 'You Could Be Mine'...and compare the song from that night to a more recent show, the reaction of most people would not be that they are hearing renditions of equal vocal quality.

That's more my deal.  Ultimately, I think the most recent shows suffer from comparison to his own body of work.  That's all.

Does he sound good? That's up to the listener isn't it? Personally I don't get the whining. And as I pointed out to you, it appears that the fans at the shows don't get it either.
What sounds good to you might sound bad to somebody else.

There's no absolutely truth. Just because you prefer some sound to another, doesn't mean you're right.

This particular show wasn't exactly the pinnacle of the tour. Shit happened. Why do you think Axl threw his mic up in the air at the end of your clip? Because he was happy?


I don't get your whining. You don't like it, we get it. You keep repeating it over and over again. And I keep telling you that you're a shit out of luck. :)
Axl's not playing these songs for you. I guess the reality of knowing that must suck....




/jarmo

Been some conjecture as to what is going on there.  Can you shed any light?

Because, yeah, he looks furious.  Reminded me of that 2002 show he does this during 'Patience'.  Cleveland?  Columbus?  I can't recall which town it was.



I get the distinct impression you really consider statements like this to be "gotcha" type moments.  I can picture dropping the metaphorical mic as you hit the post button.

The reality is that you don't like that I don't think everything is sunshine and puppy dog tails.  And about all I can say to that is...too bad. 

We don't always agree, yet I still try and maintain a rather civil discourse.  Despite these attempts to bait me into some snippy name calling contest.  Are we 13 years old here?  Come on now.

He did seem to sing off key during that short end to NR but only for those few lines, does anyone wish to shed any light as to why he got up & introduced BBF then threw the mic over his shoulder (love when he does that, it's an Axl thing to do)? Clearly he wasn't happy, some said his earpiece may have fallen out but who can tell?

As for the screen at the back, does anyone actually watch that? I read people said they liked the new video on the screen & was surprised that they noticed it, at the concert or watching the clips of songs the last thing I notice is the screen unless the band are on it.

He threw the mic over his shoulder in Santiago, Chile when someone spat on him as he sang "when they shot Kennedy" and then didn't know what to do with his hands until he crossed them & stared at the person who spat. Ugh!  :rant:

I have a wacky theory and I'll tell you how it goes.

Is he singing that way on purpose because the band has clearly goofed up the music?  Is his singing that way and then storming off all in protest, for lack of a better word?

Did the band goof up? I can't tell but he'd know. It would be the sort of thing he'd do to let them know if they can play badly he can sing badly. In that case I wouldn't like to be in their shoes when they finish up.  :o

Any1 seen teenage kicks w tommy anywhere? Either Rio or this, will lubs j00 long time :peace:

I like the sound of this tour Bumble playing Abnormal, DJ with a new solo and Tommy's cover  :beer:

No, I can't. I thought you guys could by looking at the clips.




No, it's just reality.
Your posts don't make a difference. Maybe to you, but....



The actual reality is that you're a guy on the Internet complaining about the shows. The shows you don't attend.
Now, I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, it matters to you. To me, it might matter less. I'm sorry if it offends you and your kind. It's just reality.

The reality is that you guys won't be happy with any of the shows unless they change the set. And even then you'll find something else that you don't like on Youtube.
We have ten more shows on this leg, and it's pretty boring to see the same people bring up their same issues up in every thread. We get it. You don't like it.

Others liked it though... Just saying.


/jarmo

What i really dont understand is how someone, who is touring with GNR in a beautiful country like Brazil, is wasting his time posting and posting on his message board.

Thats so fucking geeky, i can't even start to explain.

Go out, sightseeing. Do stuff, Meet some hot brazilians. Even for someone who looks like you, there must be some chick.  ;)

YES!! I Want to hear it. Its such a kick ass song.

Im sure that GN'R version is killer

Says it all.

Once again, somebody has nothing to say, so here comes the old "let's go for the insults" approach.


Please explain how geeky it is. Go ahead!
Try to explain what a regular day on tour is like. Can you? Of course you can't.... I bet you're not "geeky" enough to be able to imagine past the partying part. day

For anybody who's curious, there's things like travel days, show days, pre-rig days, productions rehearsal days and days off.
So far on this tour, we haven't had the last one listed.


I don't know why you're posting here. It makes you super geeky. Or did the sailors leave port already?  ;)
See how easy it is? Doesn't exactly make you look smart....



/jarmo

Brownstones post was extremely rude

please dont lump me with people like that lol ... im sorry i dont like the lack of new stuff... i wont express that in any more show threads

One thing I noticed on the Belo Horizonte's festival is that a lot of people, and I mean A LOT, was seeing the band for the first time. In the period of 4 years since they last played in that city GNR managed to renew their public - even without a new record out. And these new fans were singing the songs from Chinese on the top of their lungs. I was really happy to witness this!

And those people liked what they saw/heard.  : ok:

I still think it's a lot of judgment over a pretty brief clip. And, regardless of the year, camera phones do not capture sound well. Sorry, but it's true - if you think you're getting a full range of frequency response from those recordings, you're crazy. Even listening to the recording in question, it's hard to argue that the sound quality is good - it's really not. So, it may not be the best vocal moment of the tour, but I sincerely don't think it sounded like that in the room, and that's a fact whether the performance is good or bad, 2006 or 2014.

We already told you what we saw and what it looked like.  We thought perhaps someone on site might be able to contribute something else. 

Looks like not, either due to can't or won't.  Ain't no thing.  We move on.



I think a lot of us went into this tour looking for answers to two questions :

- Will there be any new songs, suggesting this band is interested in moving forward? 
- Will Axl sound better than he did the last few legs?

As for the first, I certainly never expected any new songs.  I am long on record that I expect literally nothing new from these guys going forward.  So your suggestion I am in a constant search for new songs and will raise holy hell if I don't get them is inaccurate.  I don't expect them.  Nothing this band has done in the last 5 years gives me even a hint of a inkling there will ever be anything new forthcoming.

You can also see than nothing I have expressed here is about new songs, because I think the second question is far more pressing.

And that other question was about his vocals.  To a lot of us, he didn't sound so hot the last few legs.  So we looked to these shows for a barometer of where he is right now.  Me, personally, I hear a lot of the same stuff I heard in the 2011, 2012, and 2013 shows.  Weaker vocals without much behind them, and lesser of caliber than we got from him in 2009 or 2010, and most certainly anything further back.

So that's where things stand.  And I can say, at least based on what we have seen so far, its the same old, same old.  Since these were both of the outcomes I found the most probable heading into this, I express neither anger nor disappointment. 

If there is a downside, I guess you could say I was hoping against hope I might be surprised.  Didn't happen.  So we deal with it.

I am a reader not a poster on here but this thread has got me so annoyed I have to add my two pence worth. Why don't you bitchers and moaners just F... off.
You obviously don't love the band for who they are........The best band on the planet. If you don't agree follow someone else.
I have been lucky enough to see them four times live and have loved EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of every gig and didn't want any of them to finish. I am lucky enough to be going to see them in Vegas in June and it will be the highlight of my year WITHOUT DOUBT.
I'm just so glad I found Guns n Roses gigs before they stopped performing. No other bands I see live have their energy or presence..........without exception
Rant over
Phil

Two things come to mind after reading this.

#1 - If you think what goes on around here classifies as over the top criticism, I'm going to strongly advise you to never visit another GNR forum on the internet.  I am quite serious.  This thread is beyond tame.  No one here is calling Axl a fat loser.  No one is telling the band they can go fuck themselves because no new songs were played, despite the assurances of some random name on a screen at another board.  You will absolutely find such talk just about everywhere else online.

#2 - "If you can't be positive at all times, then stop following the band".  Is this reality?  Is that how you roll with other things in your life?  You are always happy with everything and any and all folks with dissenting opinions should be told to shut their fucking mouths?  Come on now.  Has anyone told you to not go to the show and have a good time?  Are people calling you an asshole for looking forward to it?  No.  That is not occurring.

Lets be honest some of you guys do moan a lot!!  :(

I wont be as diplomatic.... Phil... fuck off urself ... myself and Dx who are the two posters in this thread who have been "bitching and complaining" ..we are never disrespectful to anybody here even if we strongly disagree with Jarmo or whoevers position... so i dont appreciate being spoken to that way

good for you for finding out about GNR... some of us have been following for them 20 years...in anything that lasts 20 years...there are highs and lows

and while im certainly not flying to South America tos ee the band... I always pay my hard earned money to see them when they are near me or in vegas... so im a paying customer, not some "complainer on the internet not at the shows"

Well Phil, that?ll definitely teach us.  So now we?re back on the ?we?re not real fans? argument because real fans never (seriously, never) question anything, or express any opinion that would be untoward to the band.  I get that it?s convenient for you to put everyone (seriously, everyone) that criticizes the band as not real fans, but in reality that?s horseshit. 

D-X, the questions you posed above say it all.  Those are exactly the questions I am asking as this new tour begins.  FYI, I still hold out hope (yes, hope?not demand or entitlement) because I would like to see the current lineup advance the ball, and also because of the statement that either did or did not originate with management about 2-3 new songs for this tour.  (sidenote: did management say that?  Why is that question so hard to answer?).  However, given the lack of ownership (or denial) of this, plus the ?read the fine print argument? that the ?plan? is to play 2-3 songs sometime during the tour, I lose more hope for this with each passing show. 

Jarmo, et. al, how do you address comments from some folks on here who actually went to the show, noted that he sounded ?ok?, was 1 hour and 50 minutes late, and people were booing during the wait?  Do you just focus on the fact that they had fun and say ?another satisfied customer??  Also, I thought we were done with late shows?  Or, do you just chalk it up to that?s rock and roll?

Despite the rough/uneven/people-had-fun-so-go-fuck-yourself start to the tour, I?ll still take the bait and check for updates again tonight?you know, something us not-real fans do.

No, we comment on what we see.  Sometimes, it can seem critical.  But just labeling everything awesome is not an honest conversation.

And let's face facts.  There are numerous GNR boards on the internet.  Anyone choosing to post at this particular one is no enemy of the current band.  We are lifelong fans, always will be, and want nothing more than to see it all firing on all cylinders.  Any "moaning" on our parts is really just more frustration that is not happening.

But while I can't speak for everyone here, I can speak for myself and a handful of folks I have gotten to know over the past few months.  We would MUCH rather be talking about how the live shows have been killer and Axl and the band sound amazing.  That's the optimum outcome.  But the disconnect seems to be that we will not just go ahead and say that anyway, regardless of the facts presented to us.

However, end of the day, opinions are like assholes.  Everyone has one, and sometimes, they stink.  But never has an opinion been given here that is labeled a decree that must be followed by all.  Well...no one on my side of the fence has said as much, anyway.  

We are just fans talking to other fans about a common interest.

These are very legit questions.

When someone mentions late starting times and ugly crowds waiting on, we are told that doesn't happen anymore.  Sounds like its happening again.


As will I.  As I will every night of this tour.  As I will every tour so long as someone is still touring under the GNR banner.

Which is the "guess you aren't a real fan" talk carries no real weight.  People that would better qualify for that tag aren't staying up past midnight each night for setlist updates of the current band in 2014.

Very well said... anything coming off as criticism is just disappointment that more is not taking place on the production moving forward front... all of us here are lifers

and I am happy for anybody in brazil or anywhere else having a great night out

We just really need to get away from people getting their back up, circling the wagons, and lobbing grenades at anyone who dares vocalize a gripe.

We waste too much time fighting with each other.  We are all after the same thing.

"We are all after the same thing"


I want to be at tonight's show, or whatch it via internet stream....neither are gonna happen, so plan B (or is it C) is to read Jarmo's tweets about songs (thank you) and look at instagram pics and vids untill the youtube clips hit.

Then wait till Vegas and soak up as much GNR as I can in 3 shows!!!

Agreed on all counts.

Ali

In all fairness, Ali, you also tell me my soundboard recording of a November 2012 show can't be trusted either.

(http://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/1939761_278274469002774_152318488_n.jpg)




/jarmo

Damn!

Guess you better pee beforehand, huh?

No, I never said that.  That's just your creative reinterpretation of what I said.

Ali

I did not take time to read the rest but that sentence does not really work doesn't it

well i wont show somebody respect who just comes here ranting and raving curses at people

i dont do that to the people i think are off their rocker ... dont speak to people that way

Then let's clear the air.

I find the soundboard recording of the 11.09.2012 to show Axl in poor voice.  'There Was A Time' probably being the most egregious example.

Am I unqualified to make that statement, as you see it, due to my lack of a ticket stub?

No, I never said that.  I said if you think that show is representative of the show that occurred two weeks later that was filmed for the video release, that assumption is flawed because performances can vary night to night, especially when your body is your instrument (IMO).

On a separate note, I also believe that taking one or two recordings from the audience, either clips or full songs, and saying that is representative of the entire show is also a problematic and flawed extrapolation, IMO.

Ali

I'd certainly agree on your second point.  Because as awful as 'There Was A Time' and 'You Could Be Mine' are that night, 'The Seeker' is awesome.  Hard to believe its the same guy.

Your first point though, I have a tougher time with.  I suppose its possible he geared it up that one night and hit a homerun, but most of the surrounding shows of that time would suggest that was the anomaly of anomalies.

I was at the last two shows of the first residency, which occurred two and three days after the 11/22/12 concert was filmed.  I felt quite honestly that his voice was stronger at those two shows than the show that was broadcast on Sirius-XM.

Ali

I do understand the argument of "your not at the show, everyone at the show had a great time etc". Of course the fans are going to have a great time at a GN'R gig. But the way I see it, we are all potential customers to this band-eventually "some" people will stop going to these shows because the band is offering nothing new compared to what they may have already seen 10 times. Last year I saw GN'R for 2 shows in a row, show 1 was exciting, show 2 was underwhelming for a GNR gig because  everything was still predictable with no changes to the setlist at all even though the show was 1 hour away in travel time ( surely the band must of recognised a large amount of fans would attend both shows)

Now shouldnt the die hard fans who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the last xxx amount of years be enticed with something new that makes them want to go back to the show again?
Or is playing to the wider audience more important?

It saddens me to think if my favourite band  returned to Austrlia with the same show I have seen already 3 times, that I would question attending.

I love new GN'R , but come on guys the fans who really care about the band are the ones who would like to hear new music, not the ones who want to hear Sweet Child on repeat for two hours.

Axl's current voice is a conpletely new argument.

It also implies that people at the shows and we here on fan message boards are mutually exclusive groups.

Is the argument really that those of us coming to this site and others like literally everyday of our lives, talking endlessly about the band...we aren't going to any of these shows when they come around our way, or at least reasonably close?

Does that really make sense?

No.  U guys r just goin round in circles beating a dead horse. Have you ever seen a movie, seen a play, go to a Vegas show, listen to a CD etc. more than once? they are all pretty much the same each time. Not to compare Michael Jackson to AXL, but he had 50 shows in a row that were scheduled to perform before his death. I think fans were aware that they were gonna b pretty much the exact same songs & show but many already had tickets to multiple shows because they wanted to see a 50 year old music legend perform live, sound familiar? Thing is, the experience is different each time since you are with different people, in a different mood, miss things the first time around etc. I've seen some of my favorite movies 10-20x,  listen to CD's 100's of times throughout the years as do many other people- & those things r exactly the same each time, So this discussion/debate is really pretty silly don't ya think? It's just entertainment which is very subjective, so If ya got something better to do with your time go for it!  : ok:

If wanting your favourite band to be creative and play new material is " silly" , then the whole music  industry is a joke and has no credibilty what so ever.

 :rant:  That's really rude, I presume Jarmo is paid to do something which might include keeping this forum in order. However personal attacks are totally uncalled for.  :rant:

I know there's no need to defend Jarmo because he's pretty kickass doing an awesome job on posting on his message board. I just wonder at times where he finds the devotion and patience handing us all this first hand info and tending to this board when some peeps just want to jump at him for doing so.

but yeah, he's touring with GNR in a beautiful country like Brazil and still finds the time and spirit of sharing with us. totally geeky. btw anybody notice the geeky guy always gets the hot quality "chicks" in grown up life?
I guess pity really is for free but envy is hard earned.


I tyvm Jarmo and give us more pwease!!! I want pics! pics pics pics!

I guess Axl's style of singing has developed quite a bit over the years. but listening to some older and new shows it's pretty obvious how strong and mesmerizing his voice is. Imo he might have become a bit too perfect, too accurate. I miss the edgy and scruffy and emotion filled screaming in key. I just really don't see the gain of comparing individual shows with one another. anybody who has ever played an instrument knows how performance can be affected, e.g. by the vibe of the crowd, the venue, the emotions and memories tied to a song, the mood, health, equipment, echoes, the way you hear the band and your own playing, etc.
on vocals it's just a tad tighter, even the slightest cold affects. what you gonna do when you wake up in the morning and you're voice is gone...
so picking out bits and pieces of songs of a live set, ofc you will find a mistake at some point, something that went off. a song that just doesn't rise to some other performance of the same song. maybe even an entire show that went all wrong. but that's why it is a live show and not playback.

http://youtu.be/n-CZAt0caFY?t=11m44s
i finally found it! Teenage Kicks and the first part of Dizzy Fucking Reeds new solo

i love this