Here Today... Gone To Hell!

The Broncos are looking like they would like to return to the Super Bowl by signing Ware and Talib to big contracts.

Be interesting to see where Revis ends up, though I suspect New England.

New England it is 1 yr 12 mill. So he'll likely be looking for the big payday next year. Gianconi to the Jets.

Sproles to the Eagles. He was scary good with the Saints. Can only imagine what Chip Kelly has in store for him. Other potential moves. Hakeem Nicks to the Panthers, James Jones to the Jets, and Steve Smith to the Ravens. WR's starting to come off the board.

Brandon Pettigrew is also talking to the Jets as well as the Lions and Raiders. Will decide between those 3.

Marc Sanchez era comes to an end in New York. Thank god!

Prediction time ;)

AFC
Patriots
Steelers
Colts
Broncos

Bengals (wildcard)
Ravens (wildcard)

NFC
Eagles
Packers
Saints
Seahawks

49ers (wildcard)
Buccaneers (wildcard)

AFC Championship: Steelers def. Patriots
NFC Campionship: Packers def. Seahawks

Superbowl: Steelers def. Packers

Still sticking with the pack after the drubbing they got from the Hawks?

Nah, I'm thinking the NFC will probably come down to the Saints and Seahawks ;)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/t6p0ew.jpg)

Seahawks are pretty dominant at home. I wouldn't take much away from the Packers for that loss. Broncos looked pretty good this week too. My Patriots did not look good. There's a long way to go though. Plenty of time to separate the contenders from the pretenders.

Chiefs will suck this year, 4-12 or 5-11 tops.

Adrian Peterson.. :no:

Next Sunday, Cowboys vs Seahawks   :beer:

 

Let's go Steelers :beer:

And after Dwayne Harris fumbled the punt, I had that "here we go again" moment.  :nervous: :no:

But here We've got a Dallas Cowboys with a 5-1 record, Huge win for the Cowboys.  :peace:

Browns pull off rare rout of Steelers   :o

I'm probably foolishly hoping Rooney will clean house sooner than later :crying:

Tomorrow,

New York Giants VS Dallas Cowboys ?!?!?! ... :]

 :beer:

Happiness with this winning streak  :yes:

Next MNF Redskins vs Cowboys :beer:

They should be able to handle the Redskins. Hopefully my Steelers can take down the Colts on Sunday :smoking:

Back To Reality, Tony Romo returned from a bruised back, but he couldn?t offset the Cowboys? miscues or the Redskins? relentless pass rush in an overtime loss on Monday night.  :(

On the other hand Steelers won in Roethlisberger's record breaking night.  8)

That was a fun game to watch; big game against the Ravens this weekend :smoking:

Hopefully the Steelers can keep the momentum rolling against the Jets :smoking:

Jets defense cooled off Roethlisberger,

After 2 lost, Cowboys took care of business on their trip to London, Bryant and Romo pushed them to a 31-17 win against Jacksonville at Wembley Stadium.

Now Byeweek  :peace:

Adrian Peterson officially suspended for at least the rest of this season without pay and can't be reinstated before April 15th 2015 but is immediately appealing. Hopefully it won't be overturned. On another note the Steelers have released LaGarrett Blount for his boneheaded stupidity of leaving the game early last night for being upset that he didn't get any carries.

But now that the Cowboys are past the Giants, beating New York 31-28 in the final minutes, the attention can now be fully directed towards the Eagles Thursday night.

And it?s not just the next game, but arguably the biggest for either team this year. Philadelphia is 8-3. Dallas is 8-3. And everyone knows what is at stake by winning the NFC East, meaning a home game in the playoffs. Perhaps a first-round bye is a stake as well.

 :beer:

The stress of the AFC North this year is almost more than I can take :nervous:

Cowboys Dominated By Eagles, Lose 33-10   :-X :no:

Let's go Steelers!! :beer:

I flew across the country for the Pats/Chargers game last week. The atmosphere was insane. It was Gillette West for sure. Pats fans took over Qualcomm and thankfully they came out on top, bouncing back from a tough loss to the Packers. Back to the real Gillette this weekend for Miami. It'll only be about 30 degrees cooler. Back to the multiple layers, hat, and gloves on Sunday. Vacation's over.

Eagles X-ED Out ?! ...  :beer:

Dez Bryant was a beast with three TD catches, the defense got four turnovers as the Cowboys (10-4) moved into first place in the NFC East with a 38-27 win over the Eagles.

 :peace:

Steelers stay alive :smoking:

Say hello to your 2014 NFC East Champs ?! ...  ;D

Dallas could conceivably still earn a first-round bye in the postseason, although tiebreakers make it likely that they?ll finish with the third seed in the NFC and host a wild-card game in the first round of the playoffs.  :peace:

Steelers could soon be AFC North Champs :beer:

Bengals at Steleers next SNF,

They beat down the Broncos last night.

Ye of little faith ;)

Cowboys Never Give Up, Battle Back to Beat Lions, 24-20  :yes:

That was a crazy game. The officiating was absolutely abysmal against both teams. That was running into the kicker against Detroit. That was holding against Dallas. That was also offensive and defensive pass interference against both on the same play the holding should've been called. You also could've called unsportsmanlike on Bryant for running onto the field without his helmet to argue. Good win for Dallas but this is a game i'd wanna forget if i am the officials.

No big surprises for me in the wild card round. The loss of Bell was just too much for Pitt to overcome. I was hoping the Steelers would win because I think the Ravens matchup much better against the Patriots than the Colts. Those Ravens just know how to win in the playoffs, even when it appears their roster isn't as strong as in the past. I do think the Pats are the more talented team, by a good margin. But the Ravens have been here before, so they won't be intimidated. The difference this year, hopefully, is the Pats have a legit good defense. They'll also have Edelman and Gronk, whereas in past meetings they've played them without Welker and Gronk respectively.

I was a bit surprised the Lions/Cowboys game was so close. I thought Dallas would win that game handily, but the Lions easily could've won that game. A few bad and impactful calls went against them in the final minutes. But they still failed to put up enough points in the 2nd half. Have to take care of things you have control over. Can't leave it in the hands of the refs because bad things can happen.

I think the Cowboys go into Green Bay and win this week. For whatever reason, they play better on the road. Carolina is playing pretty well, but I can't see them winning at Seattle. And as much as people want to write off the Broncos and Peyton Manning, I just don't see it. At least not yet. I don't trust the Colts winning on the road in the playoffs at this point. They're too one dimensional. And although it might be a tough game, I expect the Patriots to prevail over Baltimore. Just hope the O-line can keep Brady upright and with some time to find his weapons. Could be a game in the 20's.

I hope you're wrong about Dallas beating Green Bay. You gotta wonder about Rodgers health though too.

My predictions :peace:

Saturday 10/01/2015
Baltimore Ravens @ New England Patriots         15:35 pm TV Azteca/ESPN
Carolina Panthers @ Seattle Seahawks              19:15 pm Televisa/Fox Sports

Sunday   11/01/2015         
Dallas Cowboys @ Green Bay Packers              12:05 pm Televisa/Fox Sports
Indianapolis Colts @ Denver Broncos               15:40 pm TV Azteca/ESPN

MX Local Time (UTC-06:00) Guadalajara, Ciudad de M?xico, Monterrey

Ruled Out  :o

The Cowboys? magical season comes to a crushing end with a 26-21 loss to Green Bay in the divisional round of the playoffs  :'(

Jan 18

Colts vs Patriots
Packers vs Seahawks

 :beer:

So happy the Cowboys lost... and made a pretty penny in fanduel yesterday... Thank You Davonte Adams !!!

Cowboys did put up a pretty good fight, just fell short. That whole completing the catch process rule is a tough one. It certainly looked like a great catch by Dez to me. Of course I fully support the tuck rule, so if that's the rule, you have to deal with it.

The Broncos looked pretty terrible last night. The Colts forced Manning to beat them and he looked like a shell of his former self. A sad way to end his career if that is indeed it. Amazed at the lack of success he has in the playoffs. NINE one and done's. 11-13 overall. That's absurdly bad.

I feel a little too confident in the Pats next week. I just don't see the Colts giving them much of a challenge. They're a GOOD matchup for the Patriots, as opposed to the Ravens. They give them fits. But you never know in the playoffs. Anything can happen.

I also think the Seahawks will beat the Packers, but I'm loosening my grip on that one. I think Green Bay has a shot. But Seattle's stellar D should be able to slow down that great Packers offense. And the Seahawks running game should effectively keep Rodgers off the field.

As long as New England wins though, I don't really care. I'll be there to see it all unfold on Sunday. Can't wait!

I don't love the rule, but according tot he rule, they made the right call. Dallas should have lost to the Lions tho, they get no sympathy from me!

Luck will really have to stand on his head... even if he does... I don't see the Colts D holding the Pats under 31... so it's tough.

Love Seattle to win, just cant see them losing in that building to a qb on one leg (no matter how good he is)

The call was right end of story.

His playoff numbers are not on par with his regular season stats, no question, but 9 one and done's and the 11-13 record is better than not making the playoffs those 9 years and having an 11-4 playoff record.  I know that seems self-evident, but it highlights the inherent flaw in judging QBs by playoff win %. 

True. Getting to the playoffs is better than not getting there at all. But that record isn't what you'd expect from one of the best QB's of all time. And in most of those cases, his team was a top seed. It's not as if he wasn't surrounded by talented players. The best way I can describe it is teams built around Peyton have been built for the regular season, and not the playoffs. Good defense wins more often than not in the playoffs and all of Peyton's teams have been catered to his strengths.

It's not a good winning %, but the record still reflects his greatness because it shows he was in 24 playoff games.  No QB ever has started more than that other than Brady (27).  Speaking of which, Brady's playoff record was 9-0 during NE's 2001-2004 dynasty era, but 10-8 since.  Brady has always been great, but I think most would agree his prime was after 2004, even though his playoff record doesn't reflect that.  I think it goes back to what you said, defenses win playoff games, though of course you still need a good QB. 

yeah but the 9 one and done's stick out quite prominently. 6 of those were home losses, and he's 2-7 in his last 9 playoff games. By contrast, Brady has had 2 one and done's and 3 home playoff losses. And the Patriots haven't had a very good defense the last decade or so either. Slightly above average at best some of those years.

My predictions weren't that far off ;)

You had the AFC perfect in the regular season. The NFC wasn't as kind to you. But the 2 teams you got right still remain. So overall, I'd say you done well. Maybe if you didn't let your Steelers fandom get in the way, you may have still had a shot in the AFC.  ;)

Getting nervous about the AFCCG today. I've grown less confident by the day about a Pats easy victory. Hope it's not one of those "Pats peaked too early and Colts peaked at the right time" situations that we see so often in the playoffs.

Weather should play a factor as it's supposed to rain quite heavy at times. You would THINK that would favor the Patriots over a dome team, but both teams have to deal with it. Also, a weird week for the Colts. Backup LB charged with rape and won't play. Backup OL missed the team flight and won't play. And Trent Richardson didn't make the trip for personal reasons and obviously won't play. Not that any of those guys are HUGE losses, but the timing of it all could disrupt preparation a bit. At least I hope so.

Go Pats!!!

The Patriots dispatched the Colts with ease, but they won't have such an easy time with the Seahawks.  :beer:  :peace:

All this worrying for nothing :hihi:

The Packers, on the other hand, are in for a miserable offseason.

That special teams guy that took the ball right in the kisser is gonna see that replay a thousand times before camp opens.

Looks like the Pats might be up to their old tricks. They're being investigated for deflating the balls to make them easier to throw and catch in inclement weather.

A couple problems with that theory. They employed a run heavy game plan. And when they did pass, Brady threw a few wobblers and they had quite a few drops. Just another instance of other teams being jealous of the Patriots success and looking for any reason why they're able to win other than, they're just better than most teams.

Baltimore blows two 14 point leads and cries about deceptive plays, when New England did absolutely nothing illegal. Like Brady said, maybe they should read the rule book next time. Now the Colts get blown out for the 3rd straight time by the Pats and it's because they let some air out of the balls. My advice to the Colts. Get some guys who can play defense and show some semblance of being able to stop the run. Pats could've beaten them playing with a beach ball on Sunday.

Now, on to Seattle!

I'm no Pats apologist, but this DeflateGate, or whatever they're calling it, is just so stupid.  The officials handle the ball on every single possession, I think they'd notice if the balls the Pats used on offense were deflated to such a degree that it would give any material advantage. 

That said, go Seattle!

They did notice. There was a delay at the start of the second half.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12198323/indianapolis-colts-interception-led-question-whether-new-england-patriots-deflated-balls

The officials didn't notice, the Colts did; they complained about the ball they intercepted in the 2nd quarter.  Once they complain, the officials have to go through all the required due process. 

And it now appears they're guilty. 11 of the balls were 2lbs under weight.

2lbs per square inch, when the standard is 13.5, that's not so easy to notice unless you're going out of your way to look for it.  In any case,  I didn't see that they mentioned any evidence that the Pats deflated the balls.  For example, I understand that a very cold ball can lose some air pressure when it's warmed up.  Also, the balls may have been slightly deflated to begin with and nobody noticed. 

Word is, the Ravens tipped the Colts off. They thought some of the balls were suspect the week before. The refs apparently check the balls before the game and at halftime. So you'd have to assume they were fine when they were turned over to the Patriots and then someone deflated them. I'm not sure how the refs didn't notice during the game. Maybe that points to the fact that it wasn't that big a difference.

Also, since this story has come out, a lot more related stories have come out. Aaron Rodgers said he likes to overinflate balls. USC routinely deflated balls back in the day. Brad Johnson paid someone $7500 to doctor all 100 balls in the Bucs Super Bowl win over the Raiders.

And I guess deflating the football may lead to better ball security, so it could help in the running game. I've heard it could help the kicking game too.

Now, I don't think the deflating of the balls had anything to do with the outcome of the game. And to his credit, Colts TE Dwayne Allen said just that. QB's like the football a certain way and they're allowed to work on them ahead of time. But, with all that being said, it would appear that they broke a rule. And you can argue how much of an advantage is given by a deflated ball. But there must be something to it, if teams do it. At halftime they led 17-7 when they were supposedly using a deflated ball. The balls were tested at halftime. I'd have to think they'd pump them back up, no? They outscored them 28-0 in the second half. Did they deflate the balls again before the half started? Were the balls tested after the game and found to be deflated? Still questions to be answered.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think this is a big deal. It's a big deal because it's the Patriots. And they've brought that on themselves due to Spygate. They're under a microscope. So they deserve to be punished if found guilty, and right now that seems highly likely. The question is, how severe is the penalty? A hefty fine? Loss of draft picks? Belichick suspended for a year? For the Super Bowl? IF Bill is suspended, wouldn't it have to be for the Super Bowl? How do you let him coach that game and then suspend him for next year?

All I know, is that I laughed this off as being ridiculous initially driving home from Foxboro Monday morning. It has become a big deal. I also initially thought this would work to the Patriots advantage, using the whole "us against the world" mantra. But now, this could work against them if found guilty. It could be a pretty big distraction. It could get in their heads. The NFL could do the Patriots no favors in the Super Bowl. Maybe nudge the refs to swallow their whistles for the Seahawks, while not letting the Pats get away with anything.

What a mess!

The refs are supposed to check the PSI of the balls before the game and then they're given back to the teams 2 hours before the game. The teams are not supposed to alter the balls at that point. It's my understanding that both sets of balls were tested at halftime and the Colts balls were fine. 11 of the Pats balls were 2 lbs. per square inch under and the 12th was less deflated, but deflated nonetheless. So something had to have happened that was a little out of the ordinary, if the refs did their jobs properly leading up to the game. And I'd have to think they would. Then again, it wouldn't be near the first time the refs screwed something up.

I think you're right it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game. They didn't have to do this to win the game. I had them winning easily playing fair so why even try it? Yes it can help make the ball easier to catch or hold on to but the Colts still played like crap and weren't gonna win regardless.

i think a lot of people agree that the amount of air in the ball has very little to do with the outcome of any game. All QB's like the balls a certain way. Rodgers likes his with a little more air in them. Maybe Brady likes the balls a little lighter in bad weather games. Not to excuse the Patriots because it sounds like this sort of thing happens all the time and has little bearing on how the game is played. BUT, the Patriots have been caught breaking the rules before, so you'd think they'd be a little more careful in situations like this. And for that reason, I think they'll be punished, if indeed they're found guilty. If this was a first offense, I don't think it'd be a big deal at all.

Well i don't know if it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I believe in the rule book it states the penalty for altering the balls is including but not limited to a 25k fine. So even a first offense would at least net them a 25k fine if they are found to be guilty.

The Patriots clearly have entitlement issues and probably wanted to do everything possible to ensure they won that game.

25k would be a slap on the wrist and many would be outraged. I heard today that there was a game earlier this year in Minnesota I believe, where they were caught heating their balls by a heater. Nothing was done to them. I think it was Minnesota. I apologize if i have the wrong team. Point is, I'm sure that's not allowed either, but no penalty was given. What about Aaron Rodgers telling Simms and Nantz that he overinflated his balls, and them bringing that up during the Packers/Pats game this year? Why wasn't there a full scale investigation on that one?

It's only a big deal because they got caught, and it was the Patriots. Any other team, the league likely looks the other way. And this wouldn't happen to any other team because other teams aren't monitored like the Patriots are.

I'll just go ahead and throw out the obvious thought that if they're found guilty, this probably isn't the first instance of them doing this. Maybe they do it every game. Maybe they do it for bad weather games. But I'd find it hard to believe that all of a sudden they felt like deflating the balls would help them beat a team they destroyed the past two times. Doesn't add up to me.

Hope this gets resolved soon because there's a lot of misinformation going around and people just formulating their own theories at this time. Not saying I blame them, but right now we don't know the what's, why's, who's, and how's. Not even close.

Those should've been investigated just as this is. No free passes.

That would make sense they've done it before. They just happened to get caught this time. I hope so too. We should be focusing on the Super Bowl and not this, but since it happened in such a important game the league was really left with no choice but to investigate.

A report has just surface that the patriots switched to a backup set of balls that were properly inflated in the second half and were inspected by the officials. This of course still leads us to the questions of what happened to the originals before the game or during the first half.

If so, don't you feel a bit foolish for continuing to support a team of clearly morally bankrupt cheaters?

I don?t.

Personally I?m just enjoying watching the greatest coach, and arguably the greatest QB (personally I think Montana is #1 as it stands today) to ever play the game.
It?s not going to last forever, so I?m not going to take it for granted and worry about the amount of air that was/wasn?t in the football in a game the Patriots man handled their opponent by 30+ points.

If you?re not a fan of the Patriots, it?s more reason for you to dislike them.
From a Patriot?s fan?s point of view, the majority of negative comments/backlash is coming from fans of opposing teams.
Listening to players, coaches and people in the know, it doesn?t sound like the big competitive advantage that opposing fans want it to be, so they can put an asterisk next to their wins, or have another ?gate? to discuss ad nauseam.

It is disappointing that it is dominating the sports pages and taking away from what should be, on paper a great Super Bowl.
I have a feeling it?s going to be another stressful one to watch, but I feel better about the Pat's chances than the 2012 squad, where they were just playing with house money. The return of a legitimate defense is a welcome sight.

If the NfL was going to suspend Lynch for the title game if he wore GOLD cleats....

Then how does Brady get to play when he knowingly was involved in cheating the game? They would never deflate the balls like that if Brady didn't want it that way.

Of course that will never happen because he is too big of a star and lets face it...... not a thug like Lynch is. 

All-time greats aren't cheaters. You really think Gretzky, Ali, or Michael Jordan would be nearly as highly regarded if they had been accused of cheating? Highly unlikely. Please see Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens for more information.


What a load of utter nonesense. Brady and Bill having little time left makes cheating okay? ??? Manhandling the Colts simply makes the cheating even worse since it was completely unnecessary and indicates serious entitlement issues, if anything. I was raised to believe that cheating was immoral and wrong; sorry if your parents didn't instill those same values in you.

I?m not naive enough to think that everyone that cheats gets caught.
We could find out tomorrow something about Michael Jordan that could quite possibly change your opinion of him.
Mine most likely wouldn?t change. He?s the greatest player I?ve ever witnessed play, and don?t expect to see a player of his caliber again.

Barry Bonds was the best hitter of his era, with no close second. Probably the best of all time.
I enjoyed watching him do things others couldn?t. Not even the countless other players taking the same banned substances.

I?m not a professional athlete. If I were, my feelings would probably be different.
No one?s taking my job, or money out of my pocket.
I?m viewing this through the eyes of a fan. It?s purely entertainment to me.

Is an even playing field ideal? Of course.
Am I naive enough to think that such a thing ever did, or ever will exist?
Nope, but you are free live in that fantasy world if you choose, and become butt hurt over every instance of cheating that will undoubtedly continue to surface until the end of time.

So because other people cheat and might not get caught, that makes cheating okay? I'll have to remember that next time I catch one of my students cheating on a test or plagiarizing an essay ::)


Is that the same fantasy world where according to you Scott Weiland is one of the greatest rock singers ever? :hihi:

The "greatest coach ever" has now thrown his QB under the bus:

?Tom?s personal preferences on his footballs are something that he can talk about in much better detail and information than I could possibly provide,? Belichick said. ?I can tell you that in my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player, staff member, about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up.?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/22/bill-belichick-message-don-blame-for-deflategate/JjltLRRkse07jqkpQK4E9I/story.html (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/22/bill-belichick-message-don-blame-for-deflategate/JjltLRRkse07jqkpQK4E9I/story.html)

A life lesson for your students..
"Remember, it?s only cheating if you get caught.?
-Al Bundy

Not sure which of my posts your referring to, but believe what I wrote is that Scott Weiland is one of the last great frontmen in rock n? roll.

The greatest singer of all time is Sam Cooke.
You simply must know this bare essential fact if you are in charge of educating our youth.

No. Absolutely not. The majority of people have already tried and convicted the Patriots. They view them as guilty, regardless of the outcome of this seemingly endless investigation. They got caught cheating once, so people assume they always cheat. I can't control that. I can't disprove that or change anyone's mind who thinks that way. But as a fan, I choose to take them at their word. I can't prove that they're lying anymore than you can. You can get all the body language experts, all the former NFL players who were beaten by the Patriots over the years, all the media know it all's. They're all entitled to their opinions. But that's just what they are. Right now, there's no definitive proof. And I have a hard time believing the NFL has any. If they do, what are they waiting for? Give us the goods, and put this thing to rest.

It seems to me like the NFL is waiting for someone to step forward and accept responsibility and explain what happened. Because they can't figure it out themselves. There's been so much misinformation released over the week. One report after another contradicting each other. It's been poorly handled to say the least. I'd expect nothing less from the NFL though. It hasn't been a banner year for them.

Here's what I think happened, and obviously I don't expect non Patriots fans to agree with me. First off, I believe Belichick when he said he has nothing to do with the game balls. He's got enough on his plate. I don't believe he's worrying about how light the balls should be on game day. As for Tom. All QB's like the football a certain way. There's nothing against taking air out or adding air to a football, as long as it falls within the acceptable range. So if he gets balls that are fully inflated and prefers to take a little air out. That's within his right, as long as he doesn't take too much out. Maybe on bad weather days he likes to take out a little more air. Maybe "too much" air. But I doubt he's sitting there with a pressure gauge, waiting for the ball to fall 2 PSI below the lowest allowable rate. I doubt they ever knew they were in the "illegal" range. And I doubt the refs knew either. There have been varying reports as to how thoroughly they inspected the balls before the game. It seems to me that they gave them a look, a feel, and didn't think much of it.

IF that's what happened, it's on the officials. They could've noticed it and pumped air back in before the game and avoided all this mess.

IF they did indeed check the pressure before the game, then that blows my theory out of the water and I'd have to accept that the Patriots "cheated" and someone let some air out of the balls.

The problem is, there's a lot of speculating and opinions being presented as facts right now. I understand the Patriots have brought this on themselves with Spygate, but this is only a big deal because of who is involved. If this was ANY other team, it wouldn't be getting nearly the attention it's getting. I just hope it comes to some sort of conclusion. One way or another, it's time to move on. And I'm fully prepared to be labeled "cheaters" regardless of what happens. And I'm fine with that. Can't change it, so why fight it. The Steelers of the 70's were all jacked up on steroids, much more so than any other team but the media scrutiny back then was nowhere near what it is today in this 24/7 news cycle we live in. The 49'ers of the 80's manipulated the salary cap. The Cowboys of the 90's had a few questionable characters on their teams. I'm fine with being the next great team who people try to tear down. What other choice do I have? It's been that way for at least 7 years now, and it's not about to change anytime soon.

Well said faldor. Only thing left to say is, On to Seattle!  : ok:

You, as a Patriots fan, having to type all that, should be all the punishment necessary for this bullshit.  I cannot get over the ridiculous hysteria going on over this nonsense, to the point that ESPN commentators are literally crying over this (http://deadspin.com/mark-brunell-almost-cries-over-deflated-balls-1681235859).  In a sport where men do shit to each other than would kill the vast majority of the human beings, we're talking about footballs under-inflated by less than 20% PSI, an offense carrying an insignificant fine of $25,000, reflecting the insignificance of the offense. This whole thing has killed my buzz of the anticipation of watching the Pats lose at the Super Bowl.


 

It wouldn't be limited to a 25k fine. The rule says including but not limited to a fine of 25k. So the penalty could and likely would be much worse.

I'm not sure why the penalty should be worse.  If all the chatter about Brady being the culprit is true, it's his first offense and a minor infraction of the rule in question (a relatively small decrease in PSI).  The rule is clear that the penalty is levied on the "person responsible" not the team, so the team's Spygate history should have no relevance.

There's no lesson to be taught. Getting caught has absolutely nothing to do with cheating; it's immoral regardless if one gets caught or not. People by and large send their children out into the world hoping they'll rise and fall according to their own merits and won't cheat to get ahead in life. Using your logic, murder isn't murder and is completely acceptable as long as you don't get caught.

Yeah, I guess that'd be a non-option considering the amount of time and money you've sunk into this team. No matter how many times they get accused of or caught cheating, you're in too deep at this point.


Yeah.. cheating tends to diminish one's credibility as it's a reflection of one's morality and character. Not sure why that's shocking to you.


What's that old saying? Fool me once, shame on you...


I don?t think it really takes a body language expert to detect that Brady was being disingenuous at best during his news conference. Most people, when their character is drawn into questioning through an accusation of cheating, would be quite defensive and adamant about proving their innocence. They wouldn?t smile and giggle like a jackass.

Also, Brady being asked point blank if he?s a cheater is a categorical yes/no question. ?I don?t think I am? is a non-answer. How can one not know if they?re a cheater or not? You either are or you aren?t.

?It?s a mystery what happened? is also a farcical tidbit from that press conference. No, it really isn?t a mystery what happened. These balls weren?t beamed up to the Enterprise and deflated; someone in the Patriots camp clearly went out of their way to deflate the balls.


I would be shocked if the Patriots don?t end up trotting out a ?rogue? ball boy to take the fall for this one. I would also be shocked if this wasn?t the scenario you?re hoping for.


Even if Belichick's hands are clean on this one, does the buck at least in some way not stop with him? That was the logic applied to Sean Payton and he was suspended for an entire season.


A QB who?s played the game as long as he has and taken as many snaps as he has should be able to tell simply by touch if the air pressure was off on those balls; something like that would be a third sense to a professional QB. Michael Strahan never played QB and was able to tell on national television this morning which footballs were properly inflated and which were not. Brady claiming to not know doesn?t pass the smell test.


But it wasn?t any other team; it was a team who got caught cheating only a few years ago. The other 31 teams in the league managed to get through the season without being accused of cheating, why couldn?t yours?


And the Patriots haven?t? Last I checked, Hernandez was facing a litany of murder charges and Rodney Harrison was considered one of the most hated and dirtiest players in the game.

First of all, I never said I was shocked at the overwhelmingly negative reception the Patriots were receiving. Quite the opposite actually. I said a few times that they brought this on themselves and this perception isn't going to change. So no, I'm not shocked at all.

As for being able to tell the difference in a lighter ball. Good for Strahan for picking one out of a lineup. Just about every talk show has done this since the scandal. Many have said it's barely noticeable. Even if Brady was 100% innocent, I don't think he would have appeared comfortable at that press conference. It's an uncomfortable situation. His reactions seemed understandable to me. He stayed up there and answered questions for 30 minutes. He could've easily ducked out of there sooner, and personally I think he should have.

I do think Belichick may face some punishment, depending on how damning the evidence they find might be. I agree, even if he had no knowledge of any of this, it happened under his watch. And if Brady had direct involvement, he'll probably face the music too.

The league has said that the balls were properly checked prior to the game. I guess we have to take their word on that. So it would certainly appear someone let some air out afterwards. We'll see what conclusions they come up with. It could get ugly for the Pats, or the NFL might be unable to gather concrete evidence. It doesn't sound like the investigation will be wrapped up before the Super Bowl. So maybe the focus can shift to the actual game next week. It will truly be Patriots against the world. I hope they can stay focused on the task at hand.

One final thing on the balls. There's a lot of debate as to how much of an advantage a lighter ball can give a team. Some say it's huge, others say it's minimal. The real answer is it doesn't really matter. If it's against the rules, you're not allowed to do it. BUT, they played the 1st half with the deflated balls and the game was competitive, 17-7 at the half. Then the balls were pumped back up and they outscored the Colts 28-0 after that. That's the ONLY evidence we have to compare the 2 balls. They broke a rule, but I find it hard to say they "cheated", as it didn't help them. It didn't give them a competitive advantage. Not in that game.

And not all 31 other teams got through the season without cheating. That would be factually inaccurate. I hate to spoil your image of every other team being upstanding organizations and the nasty Patriots being the only team that doesn't abide by the rules. But that's not the case. Both the Vikings and Panthers were caught this year heating their footballs on their respective sidelines. That's a no no. But since it wasn't done by the Patriots you probably didn't hear about it since nobody made a big deal over it. Both teams were warned during the game. That's against the rules though. Imagine that. Another team doing something unruly. Say it ain't so.

Oh, and the Pats didn't win a Super Bowl with Aaron Hernandez. Thank god! The most deplorable person to ever play in the NFL. It makes me sick to think that I cheered for him for so many years while he was killing people in his spare time. Nobody saw that one coming though.

Time to shift the focus away from the football and to the game. We'll resume this discussion in a few weeks.

Go Pats!

I was reading some posts and thinking about this and decided to put up my thoughts on this as a die hard Pats fan so it may have some admitted bias. Maybe I am naive or stupid but this is what I think about it right now. My opinion is admittedly fluctuating.

I believe Brady. Him and the equipment crew spend loads of time working on the footballs to get them with just the right texture and every thing else. There was an article about the equipment manager for Eli Manning who says it can take months to break in footballs for Eli.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0


So these footballs Tom uses are completely worked in. On game day Tom Brady says he picks out whatever number of footballs are needed for the game. He checks which ones he wants based on grip, texture and everything else. The equipment manager sets them aside until the refs check them and then are allowed to be brought to the field. At that point the football situation for Tom is over. He already approved the footballs, he no longer focus' on them as he knows the footballs he picked will be the ones used. He goes through his pregame routine and then plays the game. Never once noticing the difference between a 12.5 PSI ball and 10.5 PSI ball as he is 100% focused on everything else on game day(We still don't know know if all 11 were at 10.5 but for this lets say they were). He's doing last minute gameplan stuff, warming up, on the field hes reading defenses, doing everything he needs to do to excel during the game. The footballs feel right to him because they are the same footballs he always practices with and everything else. He never even imagines there would be any changes to them because he already picked them and they were set aside accordingly.

This is all 100% believable to me. I'm anxious to hear from the NFL, since it can be scientifically proven, what exactly the advantage of a deflated ball is before I change my mind. ESPN Sports Science did a feature on this but I still want to hear what the NFL has to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ_S8F3mKFE&x-yt-cl=84503534&x-yt-ts=1421914688

There are many different players and media members who can or can't tell the difference between the footballs based on PSI alone. The refs, who on every play handle, place and move the footballs of both teams did not notice a difference. These referees have been around football most of their lives. They have been officials for years. They handle more footballs on any given Sunday then any other player on the field. I believe if there was a noticeable difference they wouldn't need to be notified. Also keep in mind Brady nor the refs are actively looking for a difference in the ball so that may explain it as well. All of these former players and media members are actively looking for a difference. That changes things as you are specifically looking for it. Why would Brady ever actively look for a difference during the game if he already did that before they were tested?

This is a non-issue for me. If someone did it, I don't think Brady knew knowingly. To me it is in the realm of possibility that Belichick or McDaniels without Brady knowing orders the PSI of the footballs lowered because of the advantage they think it makes. Now the question still remains, what advantage does it actually have? According to that feature it doesn't have one but lets say its still undecided until the NFL officially says(if they ever do, i really hope they do). So we have only some player's opinions. This can be scientifically proven so do it and tell us the results.

I also want to know; How old is the rule? Is it outdated? Has it ever truly been studied as to what difference it makes or was this just opinion of football players and coaches? There is a difference between opinion and fact. They obviously think there is an advantage because it appears they did it, but we still need to know 100% what the advantage is. Why did they do it? Because they felt there was an advantage, but what actual advantage is there?

This is different from Spygate because that advantage was subjective. No way to truly prove what advantage it brought. We can scientifically prove how much grip the ball adds, the velocity of the ball and other things. I hope the NFL does this and passes on its findings. And if it ultimately doesn't provide an advantage, fine the Patriots the minimum amount for breaking the rule and change it so this isn't an issue in the future. If its proven it does provide an advantage and they don't know who did it, then punishment needs to be given to Belichick who overseas the Patriots. He is the man in charge. If the advantage is big, drop the hammer, if its small say so and punish accordingly. Punishment should be given depending on the severity of how it ultimately effects the game. This was my main issue with Spygate. Nobody really knows what the advantage was. Everyone has an opinion. And opinions can be skewed based on personal feelings towards team or players or coaches. This can be scientifically proven and should be.

I guess that's about it for me.

I give Belichick an A+ for today's impromptu press conference. Getting out ahead of the story and vehemently denying any wrongdoing. He gave out more information in those 15 minutes than we've gotten all week. Running tests, dropping science, movie references. There was a little bit of everything. Your move NFL. You better have something pretty damning or all this has been a colossal waste of time and complete disrespect to the Patriots.

I know I said I was done talking about this topic, but I couldn't let this go without commenting on it. i don't think I could have scripted that any better. I was nervous when he first started but was quickly put at ease. I've heard pretty much everyone say that he sounded believable and confident that they did absolutely nothing wrong. Which is a much different reaction than the press conferences on Thursday received.

NOW, we move on. I wish this game was tomorrow. Bill is PISSED. I can only imagine how much of a motivator this is going to be leading up to the game. Regardless of that, motivation doesn't win football games. It's much more about execution. I believe these two teams a pretty evenly matched. But I have to give a slight edge to the Pats! We'll see in a week.

We'll have to see what the NFL comes up with. Something clearly happened though between the initial inspection and half time. The question was what and was it deliberate.

Nature, and no.  ;D

It's a good thing other teams don't cheat. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x9YD4pV4BH4
A coach interfering with play on the field is within the rules, right? All kids should be raised to be like Mike since he's a fine upstanding individual.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/-bill-belichick-doubles-down-on-patriots--innocence-in-deflate-gate--dares-nfl-to-prove-him-wrong-225504102.html

I loved Belichicks anger in that press conference. I felt he was up there saying fuck you media. Fuck you NFL. Fuck you Colts, Baltimore and anyone else involved in this ridiculous shit. You guys are all a bunch of fucking idiots. This is what happened. Now shut the fuck up and move on with your lives.

Also loved the spygate question and answer. Could see how pissed he is at the league over that shit. 

LOVED it! My favorite press conference of all time. The way the NFL has handled business this year has been absurd, and the media has covered this with even more absurdity. And if the Patriots are exonerated, or if the NFL is unable to convict them of anything, it makes things even worse. Maybe they have some hardcore evidence up their sleeves that they're not sharing. But right now they look foolish. Letting this drag on to be the lead story for the least exciting week during the NFL schedule. Nobody cares that the Pro a Bowl is today. No one would be giving the NFL much attention until media day next Tuesday. But, no press is bad press. So they let this ridiculous story hang out there. Ex players crying, stating matter of factly that Tom Brady is a liar. Calling for Belichick's head. Believing all these unconfirmed reports. It's embarassing. I heard Mike Francessa bashing the Pats on Friday with Troy Aikman. He claimed that he had talked to ex Patriot players and personnel that told him the ways they cheated. Without giving any names or what they said. He just threw a blanket statement out there. Totally unprofessional if you ask me. If you're going to make a bold statement like that, give me some proof. That's like me calling into his show and saying that I heard from some ex friends of his that he routinely cheats on his wife. Give me a break!

People hate the Patriots. I get it. They win a lot. They have a smug coach who doesn't play nice with the media. They have a pretty boy quarterback who's married to a supermodel. They got caught "cheating" ONCE and were punished accordingly. Business as usual. Patriots, and their fans, must embrace the role as villain. There's no turning back now. They hate us cuz they ain't us!

Well said Faldor!

Now in the spirit of moving on(by looking back, I guess) but keeping in the theme of Patriots controversy, I thought I'd share this article that takes a deep look at the comments of Ray Lewis and the tuck rule.  :hihi:

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/1/14/7549471/tom-brady-has-been-exposed-as-a-fraud

Then how do you explain the Colts balls not deflating? How do you explain the backup balls the pats used starting the second half not deflating either?

Some reports say the Patriots footballs were re-inflated and didn't show a difference after the second half. Some reports indicate the Patriots used back up footballs. Some reports indicate they were deflated by 2 PSI at half time. Some reports are now starting to indicate some footballs were deflated at different PSI levels. We don't know what the Colts levels were at or if they deflated at all. We only know they stayed within range. Basically we don't know shit and its all a bunch of media conjecture at this point.

The stories coming out keep changing. Different media reports from ESPN, NBC, FOX and others are all contradicting each other on exactly what occurred and who reported it to the NFL. This is one giant clusterfuck.

Edit: In actuality we do know something about this. The Patriots scored 17 points with footballs that were apparently slightly deflated somehow and 28 points when they were apparently properly inflated. So, as a fan, I'm happy somebody corrected the problem.  :hihi:

Haha yeah, if it was intentional it sure didn't help them in the firs half.

I saw something earlier that made me think Bill may have got his science right on Saturday(fuck if I know, I'm no physicist); Matt Patricia, DC for New England, has a degree in aeronautical engineering and Cameron Flemming,Offensive Lineman for New England, has a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics. Shouldn't be too hard for those guys to figure it out.

Exactly, we don't know what's true and what's not. Some reports say the Colts balls were tested and didn't change. But those reports are coming from Chris Mortensen and Peter King, whose original reports about the balls being 2 PSI below the allowable level are already being refuted. So who knows if the Colts balls were checked at all. Also, it's possible they tested the Patriots balls first, allowing the Colts balls a little time to warm up. So maybe they registered higher. Maybe they started at a higher PSI. Everybody is guessing at this point and I have trouble believing any of these reports or sources. You get a completely different story depending on who you listen to and what you choose to believe.

Bill Nye and many other scientists have now come out saying Bill and Brady are full of shit. Pretty sure Faldor and Sober Times do not have degrees in science.

There are many other scientists that have come out in support of what Belichick said and that it was a possibility as to what happened. Like I said, this whole thing is a clusterfuck and nobody really knows shit at this point.

Bill Nye is also a Seahawks fan. And like Sober times said, many MORE scientists have backed Bill's points and said everything he said is plausible. Look, I'm not going to change your mind. You think the Patriots cheated. You probably think they've cheated during this whole Brady/Belichick run. Even if the NFL comes out and says they've got nothing and never did, you wouldn't believe it. And you're not going to change my mind either.

That's fine. Continue on with the hate. Doesn't bother me. My team is playing in the Super Bowl. Yours is off playing golf somewhere. Hope they're bringing their handicaps down.  : ok:

It seems they now suspect a locker room attendant.

Yeah, Glazer reports that they have a guy taking the footballs from the officials area and stopping off in a room on the way to the field. They got video of him doing it. Follows that up by saying he is a person of interest but they don't know if he did anything wrong. Once again another media report that may or may not be anything. The clusterfuck continues.

Edit:Also, the lead investigator Ted Wells says deflategate investigation will take several more weeks. Which I can see, since it takes time to make something out of nothing.

Oh wow, sick burn ::)

Between planning, marking, parent-teacher interviews, additional qualification courses, workshops, and spending time with friends and family, football is of miniscule importance to me. But that's great (and amusing) that a football game is the biggest thing you have going on in life : ok:

The NFL's response to Belichick owning them on Saturday.  You knew they were going to come out swinging.  Leak some other vague information that makes the Patriots look bad after they called you out.  I can appreciate this tit for tat.  Not really.  It's ridiculous!  Are they guilty or not?  Enough with the suspense.  I find it hard to believe it takes over a month to figure out if someone let a little air out of some footballs or if it just naturally happened.  Obviously they don't have much right now, so they're digging deep just hoping to find something.  At least, that's what it seems like to me.  How did they not zero in on a ball boy, equipment manager, or locker room attendant earlier?  Seriously, all this time devoted to a PSI or 2.     ::)

As for scientists who agree with what Belichick's explanation of how a ball can lose pressure naturally.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/01/26/scientists-agree-that-football-will-lose-air-pressure-when-moved-cooler-place/2KfFPHn9dARXXCwMgBMSkO/story.html

And if you don't want to believe him because he's an MIT guy.  How about these guys from Pittsburgh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Oh, and Bill Cowher admitted that Spygate really wasn't that big a deal because everyone was doing it.  The Patriots did get caught, and accepted their penalty.  I'll give you that.  They were brazen to continue doing it after they were told not to.  Bad on them.  But let's not make it out like it was giving them some huge advantage over other teams because EVERYONE was doing it.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-01-16/cowher-downplays-patriots-spygate-says-everyone-tried-to-steal-signals

You're right.  I'm homeless.  Have no friends, no family, no job.  All I have is the Patriots.  You are so much more fortunate than I am to have all those wonderful things.  I strive to be like you some day. 

If you want to compare personal lives I'd be happy to, but that seems a little juvenile to me.  We are posting in the NFL thread, not the "who gives a shit about your personal life thread?". 

It's easy to say football isn't important to you when your team is no longer playing.  You seemed to care throughout the season when your Steelers had Super Bowl aspirations.  All joking aside, they had a fine season.  Tough luck at the end with Bell going down.  I think they could've done some damage and would've posed a much tougher challenge for the Patriots in the AFC Championship.  Maybe next year.

Win or lose on Sunday, my life will go on.  Of course I'll either be much happier or much less happy on Monday, but I think any fan would.  If you can brush off a season ending loss so easily, more power to you.  I think you'd probably be in the minority, but that's just my opinion.  Have fun the rest of the school year.  Mold those young minds.  :peace:

No, it's easy to say football isn't important when faced with the day-to-day realities of life like work or sick parents/grandparents. I'm just happy my Steelers didn't finish 8-8 with no playoffs for the 3rd year in a row and were able to go 8-2 down the stretch and win the most competitive division in football. Division rivals are very tough to beat in the postseason and I knew there was a chance that the version of the team who looked horrific against the Jets, Saints and Buccaneers might resurface at the worst possible time; Bell going down was a major omen that this was not to be their year.

There's a lot to be excited about heading into next season with the best WR, RB, and a still fairly young Big Ben at QB. I'm quite confident the Steelers will be competitive (if they get the defense revamped and rebuilt) for many years to come while Brady's years are numbered and the Jimmy Garoppolo era closer than ever ;)

Don't you sleep on Jimmy G! Honestly, I'm not looking forward to those days. We Patriots fans have been spoiled for some time now. Actually Boston sports teams in general. But these glory days won't last forever. That I know. So I'll enjoy them while they last.

Steelers are a solid franchise. No doubt about that. And their fans are always well represented at Gillette. I've had the misfortune of seeing those terrible towels waved when they beat Matt Cassel a few years back. Wasn't pretty.

More on the story. The Patriots are the ones who sent the video of the locker room attendant taking the bag of 24 game balls from the officials room to the field. He makes a stop along the way to the bathroom and takes the bag in with him. He's in there for about 90 seconds. So infer from that what you will. Did he take out the 12 Patriots balls and deflate them in 90 seconds? Did he just take a whiz and wash up? Why did he take the balls into an area with no cameras? Maybe because he's in charge of getting the balls to the field and didn't want to chance it by leaving them unattended outside while he went to the bathroom. Certainly possible.

Kraft spoke emphatically tonight about the Pats innocence and voiced his extreme displeasure for the league's poor handling of this matter. He suggested the league should apologize if/when the Patriots are exonerated. I don't see that happening. The apology at least. They are sure acting like they have nothing to hide. Or that the NFL doesn't have the goods they need to find them at fault.

If this attendant is guilty of deflating. What happens to him? Why did he do it? Did he act alone as in nobody told him too?

He took 12 colts footballs and 12 Patriots footballs into the bathroom for 90 seconds. 90 seconds. I'm sorry but I don't see the guy, at a rate of 7.5 seconds per football, deflating them in 90 seconds. I think its safe to assume he stopped to piss on his way to the field as he would be out there for at least the next 90 minutes or so.

i share that same view, unsurprisingly. But even if he did do it. It's going to be near impossible to prove, no? There's no cameras in the bathroom to see exactly what he did in there. So unless he confesses, I don't think you can make that leap. It's entirely possible he had to relieve himself. Now, you could argue that he could've easily done that before he took possession of the balls. I would guess he's been grilled about that point. Admittedly, it looks a little suspect. But I'd be far more suspicious if he was in there for 5 minutes. It doesn't seem like 90 seconds would be enough time to pull all that off.

As with any of the leaked information in this investigation, your outlook depends on if you think they're guilty or not. You could make a pretty strong case both ways. It all comes down to the exact PSI levels of each teams balls, if they were in fact both measured. And then, how they were measured. It's tough to make any definitive judgements without the so called "facts".

Various reports out there say this was a sting operation from the get go, and the NFL was hoping to "catch" the Patriots. It wouldn't surprise me. Nothing would at this point. And some of what we've been told seems to support that, if you choose to believe it. For instance, both Tom and Bill said they knew nothing about this until the Monday after the game. Don't you think word would've gotten to them on the field that their balls were tested and found to be below the acceptable league minimum level? Of course unless the NFL was building a case against them and didn't want to tip them off in any way. Just one of the many theories to this unending saga.

Yeah, if he did it and acted alone and you can prove it. What do you do? I don't think you can penalize the whole team unless they can prove not only he did it but the coaches knew. If he acted alone i think the worse that happens is he gets fired.

You could probably still fine the team since he, in essence, works for them. But I wouldn't expect suspensions or loss of draft picks. Unless they can prove they had knowledge of this, or if he has routinely done this over an extended period of time. I'm sure they're looking into such things. All of that would be pretty hard to find in my estimation.

I don't think the Ball Boy did anything. Reports suggests its 12 balls from each team and he's in the private bathroom for 90 seconds. He took a piss. Though ProFootballTalk has a source that says its entirely possible that they deflated the footballs in that 90 second period. Yes, they said a source told them.   :hihi:

I find it quite funny that PFT needs an anonymous source to tell them that 11 of 12 footballs could possibly be deflated in a 90 second time frame. Again, this whole thing is ridiculous.

That's all assuming team officials knew what he was doing but likely hard to prove as you said.

ESPN is reporting that the investigative team is meeting with the Physics department at Columbia University to determine the environmental impacts of inflated footballs. After reading people from MIT, Harvard and others that the Boston Globe has reported on and with this new development, I think the Patriots are going to be vindicated and no punishment is coming as deflation was naturally occurring. People at the league office/ownership who hate Belichick and/or Kraft have leaked elements of this investigation to make the Patriots look bad. Starting with the Colt's Jim Irsay who originally leaked the story to his friend Bob Kravitz. The media took this story and has blown it out of proportion.

The reputation is forever tainted in the eyes of some. And I think the people within the league office and ownership who don't like Kraft and Belichick will be happy with that. The NFL itself won't punish them.

At least that is what I'm thinking.

I was going with a scenario wher the locker room attendant admits guilt but says he did it on his own, without any direction from the team. I don't see that happening, but if it did I think the team could still be fined because of his actions.

Which is fine.

But my question is, and has been: Why didn't the pressure on the Colt's balls change?

I don't disagree that the weather COULD have influenced inflation rate.  But, what doesn't make any sense is why it would effect the Pats balls MORE than the Colts balls.  When the colts balls were tested, they, reportedly, had not seen the same kinds of fluctuations, but were exposed to the same weather factors.

I've yet to see any expert address that. Maybe I've missed something?

We don't know the starting point for the PSI in the Colts footballs. That is a variable we would need to know. All that has been reported on is that they stayed legally within range of 13.5 to 12.5 PSI level. It is entirely possibly the Colts footballs starting at 13.5 or a little over depending on gauge used(as that can be another variable) and ended up staying within range. I doubt the refs recorded what PSI levels they were at, just rather they stayed within legal range. If the Patriots started out at the minimum of 12.5 its entirely feasible the environment could cause a drop in pressure.

Edit: Thought I should add. Many former quarterbacks have said people with smaller hands prefer a ball less inflated and guys with bigger hands prefer a football over inflated. It seems to my admitted biased opinion, that the Patriots would turn in footballs before the game under-inflated or right at the 12.5 lowest level and the refs pump them up to fit within range(as Peter King has said refs do that). The Colts in contrast, with luck having larger hands then Brady, would issue footballs at the 13.5 highest level or slightly over inflated and the refs would let air out to hit range.

I'll revisit to be sure...but the reports I read say the colts balls were both within legal range AND had not changed as significantly at the Pats balls did, from the pre-game inspection to half time.

Not JUST that the Colts balls were within legal limits.

So, again...I've seen no one address that issue.

I just re-verified.  According to a bunch of published reports (mostly noteably by Peter King at SI), the NFL officials checked all 24 balls prior to the game.  At halftime, they checked again, after complaints from the Colts.  They found 11 of 12 of the Pats balls were underinflated by roughly 2 psi (so down to about 10.5 psi), and all 12 of the Colts balls were at the same rate of pressure they were when checked pre-game.

They then re-inflated the Pats balls.

They checked all 24 balls at the end of the game, and all were at the same rate of pressure they were at halftime (after re-inflation).

Here's a couple references (the second is BY King, the first sources him):

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/nfl-patriots-humans-weather/253317

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix

I've seen the same reported, without the King source, in a bunch of other places.

Edit: Which means the Colts balls held their rate of inflation for roughly 4 hours, through the same changes in conditions (inside/outside/inside/outside), environment, and general usage patterns. And the Pats balls "re-held" theirs for about 2 hrs, post halftime (which sort of rules out conditions and imperfections).

The media has been all over the place with this story. There are other reports that the footballs could have been under-inflated between .5 PSI to 2 PSI. So its unsure rather they were all at 10.5 or not. Some reports say they were, some say they were not. If the NFL already determined that it was the Patriots and not the weather then why are they bothering contacting Columbia University to see the effect of weather on the football? If the NFL had definitive proof the Patriots had deflated the football, it would have came out by now(Kraft and the NFL would want to move on from the controversy as quickly as possible). Several media reports are contradicting each other. There is stuff that Fox says that ESPN says otherwise. Its all over the place. This whole thing is a mess. We could waste pages writing about everything we don't know at this point.

So..in other words...you prefer to ignore the stuff that doesn't directly support YOUR support of the Pats?

That's fine...and I'm honestly not trying to be confrontational. But...that's the long and short of it.

There have been MULTIPLE reports, reporting the same "stuff" I passed along, and honestly...Peter King is pretty reputable. I'm asking a question that is legitimately backed up by numerous reputable press reports.  And I'm getting "well, there are some inconsistencies in some of the press reports, so...."

But pretty much every report about the testing of the colts balls say close to the exact same thing.

So the question remains: How does one explain the disparity?  If you choose to not answer it...fair enough. But, you are, by the looks of things, ignoring the possibility that the info is correct in your previous responses.

I'd offer that the NFL is trying to do 2 things:

1) Be as thorough as possible, which means following every single potential lead or bit of information. Given some of the outcomes/challenges of their recent high profile rulings...I"m not shocked by that tact.

2) Delay any decision until AFTER the Superbowl

The other thing is: Just because they know (or very strongly suspect) there was human intervention doesn't mean they know who, where, or why.  Would you prefer they just drop the hammer on Belicheck, Brady, and the entire organization if it was some lone acting equipment manager?

Due diligence.  They're going to do it.  We'll see what conclusion they come to at the end of it all.

I don't know the Pats are guilty of anything. But there are definitely questions that need to be addressed.

"Something" happened to those balls that seems to be unusual.  I think MOST people can agree with that....

Edit: If a football with a minimum pressure of 12.5 is underinflated by 2 PSI, it's at 10.5 PSI.  That's what I meant.

Oh come on now, you want to be confrontational, but its cool.  :hihi:

I'm saying the media as a whole has been all over the place with this story and as a Patriot fan I believe the explanations the Patriots have given thus far and believe the media is searching for controversy. While doing that they have reported many, many different things.

Lets start with how it started:
Ravens tipped off Colts
http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-was-ready-to-check-new-england-patriots-footballs-against-colts-report-says-1.9829583

NFL Sting cuz several teams tipped of nfl.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-nfl-run-sting-operation-on-patriots-to-trigger-deflate-gate--051258575.html

NFL doesn't know how it happened

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/397011/nfl-doesnt-want-know-how-deflate-gate-happened-andrew-c-mccarthy

Jackson noticed difference, oh wait no he didn't and the Patriots used colts footballs apparently

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/deflategate-colts-dqwell-jackson-new-england-patriots



I can keep providing article links that show the PSI levels are different. I can keep showing articles that say the weather impacted it. Or I can show articles that say it didn't impact it. My point still stands. We don't know shit and everybody has made an opinion on it. I want the NFL to study the difference a deflated ball can make that doesn't include the opinions of people without scientific study. I want the NFL to study if weather could have caused this issue. I want the NFL to publish what levels the PSI were at before/half-time/after game(if those records are even kept, which we don't know, all reports keep saying they stayed within range). I want the Patriots to be held responsible if it is found somebody physically doctored the balls rather a ball boy or not. I think the weight of the punishment should be dictated by what the studies show the actual impact a deflated football can make on a game. Unlike Spygate; The grip or velocity or other potential advantages or disadvantages of over inflated and under inflated footballs can be scientifically proven. As sports science gave a small presentation on it, but I want more done to determine it.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12226086

This whole story is all over the place with media reporting different things on a daily basis. Contradicting each others reports. Because most physicists have said that Belichick's explanation is plausible, I am for now believing it until the NFL says otherwise as we can't really trust what the media has been telling us because it keeps changing.

I honestly don't.

But I also honestly don't think it's at all productive to bury your head in the sand and ignore reputable published information, either.

I get there's some differences in reports.  But in relation to what's been reported about the colts balls being tested...I'm not seeing any differences in the reports that are out there. They all seem to say the colts balls stayed the same (not just "in range") from pre game to half time to post game.


And yet...none of those specifically address the consistent report (I've not seen anything different) that the colts balls were the same at half time, and at the end of the game.

You can point to all the other differences and conflicting information you want.  It doesn't invalidate THIS piece.

It just means you've decided to believe what you're going to believe, regardless.

And that's cool.  But it still doesn't answer my very legitimate question.

As for the PSI differences...I think if it were .5 PSI, across the board, in all 11 balls, you'd be hearing a LOT less.  I think we can assume it was larger than that, at least in MOST cases.


We know the levels changed on some of the Patriots balls. Enough of a difference, and enough of the balls, to warrant an NFL look. THAT we know.


I'd offer that doesn't matter, because the rule is the rule, and you can't break it.  Advantage or not, it's the rule.

It's like some of the NCAA's stupid rules (you can have cream cheese, but not lox, on bagels given to student athletes).  It doesn't matter they are stupid.  And you can argue they're stupid and should be changed til the cows come home.  But the fact is..they are the rules, and if you break them, you're subject to the consequences of doing so.

You are, essentially, cheating. by the rulebook...whether it actually gives you an advantage or not.  So says the NCAA, so says the NFL, so says MLB, etc.

I know..it's "your" team, so you likely object to that potential terminology being applied. But..it is what it is.

AND, I'd argue, if someone DID it, whether it ACTUALLY provides an advantage or not, they had a reason for doing it..which was likely they THOUGHT it caused an advantage.  I doubt it was just to make all the balls fit in the ball bag better...you know?

So, to sum up, whether it actually does provide an advantage or not doesn't matter.

It might matter if you were arguing to get the rule changed, going forward.  It does not matter if someone knowingly broke the rule, NOW.


I think they are, and they should. That's part of due diligence, and, reportedly, that's what they're doing.

 But weather would effect BOTH sets of balls, likely. No?


See, you keep saying "all reports say they stayed within range".  That's not true.  I've linked you reports that state the colts balls stayed the same, and the Pats balls, once reinflated, stayed the same from half time til end of game. That was according to King, who's source was, reportedly, an NFL official.  There are other reports of the same, not sourced directly to King (whether they used his report as an uncredited source or not, IDK). So...definitely not "all reports". In fact, I can't find ANY reports, after King's publish date, that say that.  All the reports I find after that date say "the same" or "almost exactly the same". Not "in range".

You're stuck on the "in range" when there are numerous reports correcting that bit.

I expect you'll get more specific info once the NFL completes it's investigation..either from them, or from leaks more closely involved in the investigation.  That's the typical MOI.


I think who it was, and how far up in the org the plan goes, directly effects the punishment.  And the rule actually states the punishment falls to the individual, rather than the organization...so....

NFL might go for a larger punishment if the organization, as a whole (or it's leadership), were directly involved in "conspiracy to circumvent the rules"...but I'd be shocked if that was true (or able to be proven).  This isn't a systemic operation like filming opponents would be.


Nope, doesn't matter.  It's the rule.  You follow it.  You break it, you're subject to a fine.

How big a fine would be directly related to how many times the rule was (proven) to be broken, and how involved the organization was, as a whole, in the rule breaking.  That's not my opinion, FYI...it's the NFL's (and pretty much every professional and collegiate governing body).


It's plausible, but not in a vacuum.  Again, physics doesn't just apply to one set of balls, and not the other, when subjected to the same conditions.

So, again, it comes down to:

Why did it effect the Pats balls, and not the Colts?

I'm not saying it was, for sure, human intervention.  That would be one explanation.  But if not human, then what was the different environmental factor they were subjected to.

THAT'S the explanation I want.  Because, while I've seen the physicists explanations...bunches of them.....not one has addressed the "Then why were the other 12 balls, subjected to the same testing, at the same time, and the same environmental factors, not also changed".

And so far...crickets.

If you don't want to acknowledge the reports as factual/plausible/reputable, take it as a hypothetical:

IF the Pats balls were deflated at the half by as much as 2 PSI, and the Colts balls were not...how could that have happened without human intervention? What could have caused that? Is there anything?

Anyone wanting to weigh in, please feel free!

Well you're choosing to believe the reports that seem to infer the Patriots are guilty, no? There are conflicting "pro Patriots" reports. And they aren't written by Pat Patriot himself. Legitimate reporters. Just as legitimate as Peter King and Chris Mortensen, who botched the whole Ray Rice saga, by the way. It's all what you choose to believe. I'll freely admit, there's plenty of "evidence" and reports for you to think they're guilty, and most people do. But it does work the other way as well.

As for the Colts balls. IF King's sources are right, and they've been wrong before, there still could be an explanation as to how the pressure in their balls didn't change. And this is not MY theory. They had a round table of people on CNN speaking about this very issue and the question was posed to the physics professor, or whatever he was. The expert in that field said that it would depend on when the balls were tested. The balls do change pressure due to climate conditions. If balls were brought into a 75 degree room from a soaking wet 47 degree field, the balls would eventually return to their normal pressure. What that exact time period is, I don't know. But it's quite possible they measured the Patriots balls first since they were the balls in question. Maybe by the time they got around to measuring the Colts balls, enough time had passed for them to return to an equilibrium. I know it may sound far fetched, but again, that's not MY theory. That was provided by someone far smarter than me.

Nope, not at all.

"Something" happened.

I'm looking for an explanation as to what.

But it has to be plausible, given the information at hand.

I believe King (and other's) reports because...I don't see a lot of different accounts as to what the results of testing the colts balls were.

So I'm trying to reconcile that.

Thus, the question.

It's an honest question.  No agenda. No judgement.

What could cause that?


Can you point to some different reports on the testing of the Colts balls results?

I honestly haven't seen them.

I've seen OTHER stuff, other differences and conflicting info.  But nothing on that one...at least not since those reports started surfacing late last week.


The reports out say the balls were all tested at the same time, in the same place, pre-game. Again, I've seen no conflicting information, and the NFL confirmed that's the gameday procedure.

At half time? We're not sure.  Maybe that's it....

And the reports weren't JUST from King, unless other reporters are sourcing his report/article uncredited (possible, I guess).



It sounds a little far fetched, you're right. Like someone searching for a remote theory that might fit, rather than something they really thought had happened.

But at least it's a plausible theory.

I'd guess, though, that was not the case.  But..maybe.  It's better than absolutely nothing, which is what I had heard prior to that.

Edit: To add to above..but then the balls were all tested, again, post game...and the Pats balls and the Colts balls were, reportedly, "the same" as they were at halftime.

ONE set had to be tested first, post game.  Maybe enough time had lapsed for that set of tests, though...that they'd all gotten back to equilibrium.  Just sort of "thinking out loud".

That's the problem. We don't have all the facts, or nearly enough of the facts to come to a definitive conclusion. And apparently, neither does the NFL. What were the PSI's for both sets of balls pre game, halftime, and post game? How/where/when were they tested? Really, without ALL that information, we can't know for sure. We can pick and choose from the leaked information, but it's all over the place. You'll hurt your brain trying to do it. Trust me, I've tried.

Let me say this though. The Patriots have been defiant saying they did nothing wrong. I take that two ways. Either they know for a fact that they did nothing wrong, or they know for a fact that the NFL will be unable to find a direct link to Kraft, Beliichick, or Brady. They'd look pretty foolish if it comes out that Tom did it himself or directed the ball boy to do it. I guess it wouldn't be the first time an athlete lied and later had to apologize for doing so. But they're taking such a hard stance, I have to think they know something that works in their favor, or they could end up with serious egg on their face and have to pay a stiff penalty.

IF, it was the ball boy, they'll have some explaining to do. Because I highly doubt a ball boy would do that on his own volition. But I think it's going to be hard for them to prove unless someone breaks down and confesses. I don't see that happening either though.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the actual game itself?

The Pats have lost to teams with great defenses in the past. I think Seattle would fall into that category, so they could have their troubles. BUT, this year they have a pretty good defense themselves. That seems to be going under the radar. They have had some issues stopping the run at times and they've given up their fair share of big plays. Both of which, the Seahawks are pretty good at. Then again, the Seahawks are somewhat one dimensional on offense. IF the Pats can load up and stop the run, you'd have to like their chances.

It'll be interesting to see how the Pats come out considering all they've dealt with the last few weeks. They could come out on fire, like times they've been questioned before. Or they could let the weight of all the controversy bear down and get the best of them. It SHOULD be a fascinating game.

You engage in arguments all the time, I come to the conclusion you enjoy it. I think that's a fair assumption. You may disagree. None the less, i'm not upset or insulting you by saying that. At least I don't believe so but whatever that isn't the point. I wasn't burying my head in the sand.

I operate from the general statement that the Patriots did nothing wrong. I look for proof that they did something wrong. All we have at this point is media reports from unnamed sources that contradict each other on a regular basis. It seems to me, that you and the media in general are operating from the conclusion the Patriots had to have done something wrong.  Regarding some statements made:

Most say stuff like this: All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report. As taken from http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

We don't know the exact reading they had pre-game, half-time or post game. As various reports do indicate that the colts met standards or stayed within range but they don't indicate exact numbers. Let me know if I need to go into the nexis database pull some articles and link them all here. I can do that if your insistent.

I was using the other article links as an example of the varying reports this incident has given us over the last week. I have read far too much about deflating footballs rather through SI.com and Peter King, Pro-football Talk, Yahoo news, ESPN, Boston Globe, Herald and other sources. Of course as a Patriot fan I want them to be vindicated and start with the premise they are innocent. That doesn't change the fact that the only thing we have right now is conjecture as to what happened. The majority of the public is using the conjecture to convict the Patriots. 

If its deemed the Patriots purposely deflated footballs, I agree the Patriots should be punished. The rulebook has a $25,000 fine. Some reports indicate that they could be fined and drafts taken away. My feeling is, that if the advantage of a deflated football is neglible, as in it doesn't exist, give them the minimum fine and change the rule. If its found to give a bigger advantage, give them a bigger punishment. Like most punishment is done. It should fit the crime. That was my point on that.

 

You're right and it is going to be interesting to see if they come out as angry team like they did against Cincinnati.

Here are my thoughts on the game:

The Patriots have a hard time dealing with interior rushing, historically, as they tend to use smaller more athletic interior lineman. Guys like Wendall or Connolly. Seattle lost a key interior pass rusher to injury so that should help the Patriots. If the line can hold the interior and allow a pocket to be completed for Brady I think the Patriots can excel against the legion of boom. They can't allow a 4 man rush to get to Brady. Must force Seattle to get creative for pressure.

Gronk is a bad match-up for anybody and should be used as a decoy. Since Seattle's defense so rarely adjusts to what the offense is doing, it should be easy to use motion for Brady to read the defense and take advantage of possible mis-matches. Either with Edelman, Vareen, Wright, Amendola or otherwise. I believe Gronk will get a couple good plays, but its going to come down to how everyone else does. Brady will have to spread it around which he loves to do anyway. I don't think Seattle will blitz very often and when they do, advantage goes to Patriots as Brady's numbers are extremely high vs. the blitz. If the 4 man rush doesn't get home, then Seattle may blitz and that does work into what Brady does well as he is great against 5 or more rushers.

The key for Patriots defense will be keeping Wilson in the pocket and limiting the Lynch run and the read option which Seattle excels at. The Patriots Secondary should have no problems covering the likes of Baldwin, Kearse and the supporting cast. Its going to come down to the front 7 and how they deal with Lynch and the read option. If they stop the run, this is going to be a long game for Seattle.

I look at what Seattle has done over the last half of the season and don't see it as that impressive. As the competition they have faced hasn't exactly been top tier. So I think they are coming in a little over-rated. I believe the Patriots have a better Quarterback, Coach, and defense then the Broncos had last year and that Seattle is not nearly as good. I expect a good game with Wilson vs. Patriots defense being the difference maker. I think Revis, McCourtey, Browner, or Collins will make a special play on a Wilson mistake that will cost Seattle the game.

Whatever gets you through the night...it doesnt't invalidate the point. I'd also point out...i didnt start the argument.  Asked a question...based on reputable, legit, pretty wide spread, reporting.


Incorrect.

I'm operating under the conclusion something happened, whch resulted in the balls testing at a lower presuure rate.

I'm not assumng guilt or innocence, of anyone. Look at my initial question.

I'd be perfectly ok accepting the weather explanation, if someone could realistically reconcile the fact the colts balls didnt change, reportedly.


Which a) doesnt semantically say anything different than the articles i linked...it's just less descriptive/informative and b) was published before the more descriptive/informative reports came out.

In other words, its still not different, just differently phrased, information. Nothing there conflicts with the later reports.

Is there an article that says the colts balls changed signficantly, too, during half time testing?


No, and we probably won', at least til the nfl releases its findings, and maybe not then.

But, you know, they are looking. They are investigating. Would they still be if they didnt have some sort of reason to? Maybe they dont know why...which is pretty much where i stand, so....


But not one of them contradicted the piece of info we are alking about..thus, not really relevant. Unless you want to discount all media reports, as a whole, in which case there is no issue, because thats how we found out in the first place.


I am not convicting anyone. I just would like a plausible explanation for what happened, so it can be fixed/prevented going forward. Or get the rule changed.


I'd be fine with the 25k, especially if its a "lone gunman".  If there was institutional conspiracy to break rules, thats handled differently,with different punishments (loss of draft picks, etc). I'm not sure they could prove that. Again, this isnt a huge operation, necessarily, with lots of moving parts to find.

Edit: sorry for the typos....ipad!

I suspect the nfl is dragging its feet, a bit. They dont want any scandal or bad news or distractions for the superbowl. I also think they want to avoid interviewing some personell, so as not to distract from game prep,until sfter the Superbowl.

I agree, we cant know for sure. But i think there are some inconsistencies that need plausible, realistic, explanations. Thus, the question.

You at least pointed to something. I'm not sure i buy it, but at least its something!


Agree. Either the org wasnt nvolved, or they are confident there is nothing leading back to them.

Or, it really was some weird natural phenomenon that soneone will eventually explain, and explain the differences between the colts balls.


I could see some equip manager thinkng he was helping out, knowing brady and his rec core like the balls softer, doing it on his own. Or not being 100% aware of the rule. Something boneheaded and dumb.


Close game, pats by 3.

On my phone, so I get the typos and stuff. I usually have them and even words missing at times.

No there isn't an article that specifically says that the air pressure was different for the colts, only that it stayed within legal limits. Either way, we'll get the hard numbers, well maybe, when the NFL report comes out. Even the King article you linked only says they stayed at the "Prescribed level" which is 12.5 to 13.5. He doesn't state unequivocally that the Colts footballs did or did not drop in pressure only that they stay at the prescribed level. Which has been my point. No one is stating where the Colts footballs started at or stopped at. Only that they were with in range, or at the prescribed level. King comes to the conclusion that it means they must have been tampered with by a human. Based on most physicists saying its possible that there could be some pressure drop, I would say it matters if the Colts footballs started at 13.5 or 12.5. Because it could be possible that Colts footballs started out at 13.5 and were at 12.5 at the end of the game. Stayed within prescribed level but not at the exact PSI. As weather could have had an impact and I wait for an official response from the NFL.

Let me ask you this. If the Patriots knew that weather would drop PSI and requested their footballs to be at 12.5, knowing internally that the footballs could drop to 11.5 or even 10.5 PSI is that cheating? Or is that within the rules since they didn't actually let air out? I think this is a big possibility of what the Patriots did.

My point of showing the articles was only to show how often this story has been reported differently. That was just one example. I shared those links to point out how often the media story has changed. Currently, I'm trying to go off the most recent reports but go with skepticism as so much has changed over the last week and half. That was the point of those links, which I happened to have in my phone at the time. There has been reports stating how the investigation started which have changed dramatically. There have been reports as to what the PSI of the footballs were for New England which has changed from time to time. Some reporters have also stated that the Colts footballs stayed at the same PSI level for the 4 hour game and some have said they stayed within range.

It wasn't to illustrate that we should ignore all the media reports, it was to illustrate that everything has changed so much we have to look at all of them with this story with some skepticism. I choose to accept the more recent reports as accurate as so much has been reported differently. If that makes the Patriots look better, so be it. If its the opposite so be it. I should have been more clear. That's my bad.

The only thing we know 100% fact is that NFL is investigating. I wish we knew more for sure.

I think one thing we can all agree on this rule must change. Handle the footballs the way they do for the Super Bowl. Someone independent from either team prepares them. So we never have to have anything like this happen again.

Yeah. I'd actually let the HOME team have control over ALL the balls. So they can still work the balls to their QB's preference, and the opposing team has to deal with it. A sort of "home field advantage" if you will.

I heard a physics professor from MIT interviewed and he explained that the PSI in a football drops .5 lbs. for every 10 degree drop in temperature from where they're initially measured. Or it may have been for every 20 degrees, I can't remember exactly. Regardless, if that's true, teams would have been playing with illegal balls more often than not in cold weather. Measure the balls at 12.5 in a 70 degree room, drop down to 50 degrees and technically that's an illegal ball. That's why there's so much gray area here.

As for the Colts balls. I've heard a few reports where balls aren't normally tested at halftime or after the game unless there's reason to. Reportedly the Colts requested the Patriots balls to be checked, and they were found to be below the limit. That we know. We don't know how far below, conflicting reports there, but we know they were below. The Patriots wouldn't have requested the refs to check the Colts balls themselves, so we're hoping that the refs did that on their own as a point of comparison. But we don't know that, aside from unconfirmed reports. But I guess we have to assume they did their jobs properly, at least we hope.

I've stopped trying to formulate hypotheses as to what happened. There's just too many conflicting reports and missing information. I don't know what happened and haven't ruled anything out. They could've knowingly and overtly cheated. There could have been a rogue ball boy. The weather could've been the culprit. We just don't know. Unfortunately, their reputation is even lower now than it was before, and it was pretty low to begin with. They're perceived as cheaters and that isn't going to change. Fair or unfair, that's the way it is and that's the way it will be.

One final thing. I heard Greg Doyell, Indianapolis sports reporter, on Boston sports radio this morning. He compared Deflategate to the 1919 Black Sox throwing the World Series. In fairness to him, he said it wasn't a direct comparison, but in both instances the game was rigged. Obviously I think that's utterly ridiculous, but make of it what you will.

 :hihi:

Patriots Really Embracing ?Us Against The Rules? Mentality

SPORTS NEWS IN BRIEF ? Sports ? Football ? NFL Football ? ISSUE 51?04 ? Jan 29, 2015

PHOENIX?Amid widespread criticism over using illegally under-inflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game, coaches and players from the New England Patriots revealed Thursday that they are fully embracing an ?Us Against The Rules? mentality heading into Super Bowl XLIX. ?At the end of the day, that ?Us Against The Rules? attitude just motivates us to go out there and play our game the way we do best,? said quarterback Tom Brady, praising his team?s ability to pull together in the face of all the standard rules and regulations in the NFL. ?But honestly, it feels like it?s us against the rules every season. It certainly felt that way during all the other Super Bowls we?ve played in, and after a while you just have to own it. It?s not always easy, but it?s just part of playing for the New England Patriots.? Brady went on to credit the mindset for inspiring the team?s past success, noting that it is that much more satisfying when the Patriots come out on top.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/patriots-really-embracing-us-against-the-rules-men,37877/

I'd be ok with that as long as it's determined just before the game starts that they are inflated within the required range.

NFL had a presser with Troy Vincent, Dean Blandino and Bill Vinovich, read on twitter via @jeffphowe that the NFL doesn't know the actual PSI numbers of any of the footballs before, during half-time or after the game. They only check to see if they fall within range of 12.5-13.5. NFL doesn't keep a log of PSI. So there is no log that the Patriots footballs were below PSI at halftime by 2 psi. Mort is apparently backing off from that report and saying it was closer to 1. But again, NFL doesn't keep log so all we know is that Patriots footballs were below range but not by how much. This appears to be a shit-show the media over-reported and forever stained the Patriot legacy.

Edit: Here is more from ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss...

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4777441/learning-more-on-how-referees-test-and-document-football-air-pressure

I love this part in particular: Said Vinovich, "We test them. It's 12.5 to 13.5. We put 13 in every ball. ... Dean tested a couple in the office and had one underinflated and one to specs, and you really couldn't tell the difference unless you actually sat there and tried to squeeze the thing or did some extraordinary thing. If somoene just tossed you the ball, especially in 20 degree weather, you're going to pretty much play with the ball. They are going to be hard. You're not going to notice the difference."

Couldn't tell the difference...lol. Exactly what Brady said and everyone called him out for it. This whole thing is really starting to piss me off.

Edit #2: Can you tell I'm mad about this?  :hihi:

According to @BartHubbuch writer for New York Post; Blandino also said during the presser the rule has been in effect since 1939 and they will get together with Wilson to discuss changing the range of the PSI.

Fuckin shit show. 

Waiting on the NFL for that apology.  ;)

Just as I presumed. Those initial reports were wrong. Why did we have to wait 2 weeks to find this out? All of this could've been avoided, but apparently it's better for the NFL to let one of their teams twist in the wind while everyone assumes they're guilty. Nothing wrong with that? When you don't really have evidence to the contrary. The media is obviously to blame too, for shoddy journalism and all the misinformation. But the NFL could've put a lot of this to rest much earlier in the process.

Where are Peter King, Chris Mortensen, and their "sources" now? Whoops!

Another horrible job by the NFL. Awful year for them.

On to Seattle. Let's go Pats!!!

Media is getting desperate for Patriots controversy.  :rofl:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/legarrette-blount-doesnt-deny-that-he-tried-to-get-back-to-new-england/

One of the main non-#DeflateGate questions this week relates to whether any sort of winking and/or nodding occurred in connection running back LeGarrette Blount?s release from the Steelers and return to the Patriots.

Carolyn Manno of NBCSN?s Pro Football Talk asked Blount directly ? and pointedly ? about whether Blount is bothered by the suspicion that he tried to get fired by the Steelers in November, paving the way for his return to New England.

?No it doesn?t bother me, people are going to assume what they are going to assume, I can?t change their minds,? Blount said.

?Are they right?? Manno asked.

?It doesn?t matter.?

?But it does matter,? Manno replied.

?Why does it matter??

?Because if they?re right then that wouldn?t have been allowed.?

?It doesn?t matter,? Blount said. ?People don?t know what they are taking about they just know what they think and everyone is entitled to their opinion whether it?s right or wrong.?

That?s hardly a convincing denial from Blount, who would have been wiser to say that he passed through waivers after he was released and any team could have claimed him and no one did. Instead, three teams made waiver claims for running back Ben Tate, who?d been released by the Browns the same day.

If it was a scam, it was perfectly executed. Blount quit on the Steelers one day after Patriots running back Jonas Gray torched the Colts for 201 yards, creating the clear impression that the Patriots would have no desire to reunite with Blount.

The Steelers didn't have to release Blount. That was their choice. And they could've used him considering Bell went down in week 17. And every team had the option of picking him up on waivers. They didn't want to assume his contract. Once he was a free agent, the Pats had the inside track.

Cheaters!  :hihi:

Go Pats!!!

Congrats to the Pats fans (and the Pats, themselves).

Man, I was close...off by 1 point!

That final play call by the Seahawks might be the biggest "WTF" moment in NFL history.

After that final catch which might be the best (even though they lost) in Superbowl history.

Basically, the Pats won because Carroll out-dumbed Belichick in the final minute.  How does Belichick not call a timeout after Lynch's first down run? 

Genius move by Belichick. They sent 8 men in the box with 3 DB's to matchup with the 3 Seahawks WR's. Daring them to pass, but still prepared for it. If he calls a timeout there, he gives Carroll a chance to collect his thoughts and change his mind. Belichick decided to roll the dice and win or lose with his defense. It was a gamble, and it paid off handsomely. Carroll gambled and lost. He did the same thing at the end of the first half, going for 7 from the 11 yard line with 6 seconds left. If that failed, that'd be viewed as one of the worst calls ever. It's all about results. If it works, it's genius. If not, worst call ever. I'm just happy it broke down the way it did.

Unlike in 2007, the defense was able to make a play after a miraculous fluke catch. Love'em or hate'em, the Patriots are involved in some pretty exciting Super Bowls. Their last 6 have all been decided by 4 points or less. This one was the most satisfying, at least since the first one. Now the whole "they haven't won anything since Spygate" nonsense can be put to rest. Obviously people are still going to hate and they'll try to demean this one because of deflated balls. Even though the balls on Sunday were on the level. When you're on top for this long, people get desperate to tear you down. Well, they're back on top. I expect the hate to reach all time highs next season. And I can't wait for it. They have the youngest roster to ever win a Super Bowl, and Brady should have a few good years left. So this run isn't over just yet.

Of course, they do have some pretty big personnel decisions to make. They HAVE to lock Revis up. Hope he takes a little less to play for a winner rather than chase the money to play for a lesser team like Rex Ryan's Bills or a return to the Jets. McCourty and Gostkowski are also key free agents. Also, the Pats were able to get through this season with minimal devastating injuries. They lost Mayo and Ridley for the season in week 6, but aside from that they remained relatively healthy. That hasn't been the case in recent years and you can't expect that to happen again. So it certainly won't be easy to repeat, but the potential is there.

That's a stretch.  How does Belichick know that Carroll, at the end of the first down play, has already decided to pass on 2nd down?  Even if he does somehow know that, it's a bad risk, because the percentages are still well in favor of Seattle scoring, pass or run.  Not suggesting you let them score, you have to try and stop them, but preserve clock while doing so. 


Not the same thing at all.  The only option in that end-of-half scenario is to take one chance in the end zone and then settle for 3 if that fails.  If they had run, clock would have run out and then you don't have the FG opportunity.


Anyway, congrats on the big win, regardless of how it ended, very much deserved.  As bad as Carroll's decision was, the play made by Butler was incredible.

That's really the only part of your post I disagree with.  If it worked, you'd be hearing less about it.  But it's still a dumb, and overly risky, move.  Especially an underneath slant into the mass of the defense. 

You have, arguably, the best RB in the league.

You are on the 1 yd line (and, really, the ball was closer to the 1/2 yard mark).

You have 20 sec, 1 time out to burn, 2nd down, and you're down 4.

You have time to take 3 shots at the endzone with your time outs.

If Lynch gets pushed back after taking a shot...you open up the end zone for a potential fade pass in the back of the end zone, and then another scramble to punch it in on 4th down.

Pats hadn't been able to stop Lynch, even with good matchups, for short yardage all day long.

The only person on the planet who, in that moment, thought it was a good idea to pass was...Carroll.  And nobody really knows why.  I mean, other than to "waste a play". Even if it worked, it was dumb. And risky.

A smart coach doesn't get out "cute-ed" by the other guy.  And that's what happened at the end of the game.  No argument that Belichick did some nudging to Carroll's psyche to plant the seed by being cute with his matchups, but I'm not sure you can give him the lions share of the credit, here...unless the pats hacked the hawks comm, and they called in the play (WAIT...NEW CONSPIRACY THEORY!!).....that play call was dumb, dumb, dumb!

You don't want to stop the clock for the other team when they only have 1 timeout left themselves. Once it was apparent that the Seahawks were letting the clock run down it was pretty clear they were going to have to try at least 1 pass. You can't run the ball 3 times in 26 seconds with only 1 timeout. They stacked up against the run and still played the pass. The perfect defense for the play that was called. Obviously it was a risky play, and the wrong play to call knowing how it turned out. But the Patriots not taking a timeout baited the Seahawks into an ill conceived pass play. Carroll outsmarted himself. No one expected a pass, except for New England once they saw how they lined up. He tried to catch them off guard and it backfired on them. If that ball falls incomplete, they most likely run with Lynch on 3rd down. If that doesn't work, they call their timeout and run the final play. It was a huge gamble, but you're in a pretty tough spot there. You call a timeout and the Seahawks are much better setup. That's all I'm saying. It's not as crazy as it may seem.

They practiced that play leading up to the game. They expected it. Butler got beat by it in practice. He didn't when it counted. They knew the possibility was there for a goal line slant. They were prepared for it.

Obviously it was a risky play. But if it worked, people wouldn't be saying it was the worst play call in SB history. Quite the contrary. They'd be saying how unconventional, ballsy. How he outsmarted Belichick. All of the above. Sure they'd still be saying it was a risky call. But there's a huge difference between risky and dumb.

OK, understood, odds are Seattle runs up to 3 times if the clock is stopped after each play.  But I still think, compared to hoping for a near miraculous defensive play, the better route would have been to take your timeouts and hope you can make a goal line stand against the run (they stopped Lynch on 3rd and short twice earlier in the game) and, if not, getting the ball back with about a minute left needing only a FG to tie.  

By the way, who was Carroll going to catch off guard by lining up shotgun with 3 receivers set up wide?  If you're going to pass, at least go under center to make the defense think about the run or a QB sneak.  

No matter how you slice it Carroll out thought himself and blew it big time. It is entirely possible the Pats could've kept Lynch out of the endzone but the odds were in Seattle's favor from the half yard line. If you do it and don't make it you call timeout and really think about what to do on third down. If you decide to run on third down too you probably don't have time for a 4th down. So maybe try a pass and if it is incomplete you do have 4th down opportunity.

I'm sure they prepped for it. It's not unusual to run that play, in other situations. That doesn't mean it's the right play to call, in THAT situation, at the end of the game, given what had happened the REST of the game.

I think there would have been some questioning of the play call even if it works...again, not to the extent that we are getting, because of the results.  But I think most people would think he got away with one....not that he "won by being ballsy".

And that's actually part of my point: I think Carroll got "out-cuted" by Belichick to some extent.  He focused on trying to out think the other coach, given the scheme he was showing,over making an overall smart play.  He chose...poorly. ;)

Worse than that, it was the Seahawks weakness (their receiving core, at that moment, as it was) vs the Pats strength (their interior pass defense).  That helps take it from "ballsy" to downright stupid, too.

Run 2nd, for sure. 

Quick fade to the back of the endzone on 3rd, to protect the clock.

4th down is a free for all. Likely, you let Lynch try to punch through, if you're STILL on the half yard line.

I just have a hard time boiling down the outcome of the game to a single play call. What happened, happened. Seattle marched down the field seamlessly at the end of each half. NE couldn't make a play the first time around, they did when it mattered most. It's amazing how much perception can change due to ONE play call. Up until that very last play Pete Carroll was on his way to his 2nd Super Bowl, on the verge of a dynasty, and approaching the area of all time great coaches. With that one play call, his reputation has been knocked down way more than a few pegs. I just don't know if that's completely fair. He made a bad decision in the heat of the moment, but I think it's being overblown. Players are throwing coaches under the bus and vice versa.

Again, you can't blame any loss on ONE play. Lots of things could've been done differently throughout the course of the game. Accept that, and move on. Lose with some class. Not even mentioning the mini brawl the Seahawks started at the end when it all set in. They showed their true colors there, and with some of their post game comments.

Oh, I agree. It wasn't ONE play that ultimately led them to the loss.  Seattle's defense could have won that game by showing up in the 4th quarter.  And I thought the Pats actually played better for 3/4 of the game, and Seattle was kinda lucky to hit the end of the first half with a tie score.

But that one play was SOOOOOOOOOO dumb, SOOOOOOO ridiculously bad, that it casts a pretty large shadow on the results.  It's not the ONLY reason, but it certainly has to be considered ONE of the reasons. And it's the one that's going to be talked about simply because it stands out as being SOOOOOOOOOO terrible.  It's an easy conversation starter...and Carroll does deserve some blame/heat for it, because, whether it came from him or the OC....the buck stops there.  And his rationale/explanation, post game, didn't do him any favors either.

I mean..the Hawks could have run 2nd,3rd, and 4th downs..and STILL lost the game. But I sure think there chances would have been better doing that than with what they did, ultimately, do.

Also agree...the Hawks were pretty much classless at varying points throughout the game...the brawl just being the cherry on top. 

Agree that it's unfair to boil the entire game down to that one play, but can any of you think of one play in SB history that swung the win/loss probability of a game more than that interception?  Closest I think is the Rams getting stopped at the 1 yard line by the Titans at the last play of the game.  Even that doesn't compare, the TD would have only tied the game.

Belichick explains his decision to not call a timeout at the end of the Super Bowl
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4777871/bill-belichick-explains-decision-not-to-take-timeout-at-end-of-super-bowl

Belichick defends Seahawks play call
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12277589/criticism-seattle-seahawks-play-call-line-bill-belichick-new-england-patriots-says

I agree with the first.

He is full of shit on the second. Totally, 100%, completely full of shit.. Hof players and coaches are calling the play call stupid. Emmit fucking smith called it the dumbest play call in history. Most every well healed, respected, analyst is callng it a terrible call, too. Bellichick isnt the only person on the planet "qualified" to comment, no matter what he thinks. The fact it benefited his team, and, hell,was something he helped orchestrate in some ways, actually makes me think he is uniquely unqualified to comment.

The only part he is right on is where he insinuates that carroll shouldnt be defined, totally,through his career, by that one bad call. It was dumb. You live, and learn,and move on.

He's also being gracious and,really,what else is he going to say. Hes commenting on an active coach,who he will likely face again. When has Bill ever called out an active coach? Rex? Maybe in a half hearted, back handed, way? No way...he goes out of his way to say the most boring, least interesting, thing possible. Hes the anti-rex ryan.

What a great game.  It is a little sad though that the only thing people are talking about is that final play, it is understandable though.  Tom Brady after throwing his second pick of the night went on to the greatest fourth quarter in a Super Bowl for a quarterback, ever.  Largest fourth quarter comeback in Super Bowl History!  Also, unlike the last 2 Super Bowls where he left the field with the lead late in the fourth, this time his defense made a play.  I am never a fan of comparing current players to the past.  It is way too common especially today in the social media driven sports world for a guy to make  few nice plays  and all the sudden they are "the next Jordan" or whoever.  But for me, this win makes Tom Brady the greatest quarterback of at least the Super Bowl era.  4 titles, 6 appearances, in the free agency era?  Absurd.

True, he's not going to call out any coach. That's not his style. Every team and coach they face, he waxes poetic about, regardless of how good or bad they really are. But I don't think he's being disingenuous. He too has been criticized for making some calls that people disagreed with. 4th and 2 at Indy a few years back is most notable. He got blasted for going for that when they came up a few inches short. He's also gone for it on 4th down on their own 30 before, a highly questionable call. But it worked that time, so it's viewed much differently.

Pete Carroll lost a National Championship to Texas when Lendale White was unable to run it in at the goal line. The opening drive of the 2nd half the Pats held Lynch to no gain on a crucial 3rd and 1, and the Seahawks had to settle for the game's only FG. Lynch was 1 out of 5 running the ball in from the 1 yard line this year, 5 for 12 in his career. Maybe some of these things were running through his head when he made the split second decision. I think worse than the play call itself, is their time management on that last drive. They had 3 timeouts at the start of the drive and burned 2 when the clock was already stopped. If they had just 1 more timeout they would've been able to run the ball 3 times potentially. Also, Carroll wanted to leave the Pats with as little time left as possible. So in essence, they were a little rushed themselves.

I've seen a screen shot of what Wilson saw when he was about to release the ball. Lockette was wide open. He probably felt he could easily sneak the ball in there. What he didn't anticipate is Butler making a perfect break on the ball and beating the receiver to it. One of the most miraculous end of game plays that I've ever seen. And in a game of that magnitude, just unbelievable.

You won't get an argument from me. It's tough to compare players from different eras though. Brady has won with a number of different supporting casts, due to free agency and salary cap ramifications. People have some strong opinions for both guys. It doesn't really matter to me though. The fact that Brady is in the conversation as GOAT, is remarkable. He's a special player, that's for sure. I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts. I hate to think of life without Tom and/or Bill, but that day will come. For now, I'll enjoy this as much as I can.

Axl4Prez, this one's for you. I know we had a little debate about this draft day trade back when it was made. Looks pretty good for the Pats right now.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/291007631.html

Well...GO PATRIOTS.  : ok:

My week long haze of celebrating and everything else is over(I took the Superbowl week off this year as I had planned to go to Phoenix for the Weekend of the Superbowl and then Vegas but it fell through). What a crazy game. Brady being almost perfect on the last two drives. Edelman coming in clutch in multiple moments. Belichick sitting back, not calling timeout, resting his laurels on the defense he built and the idea Carrol would make a mistake. A bad play call(not the worst ever that some have proclaimed, but a bad one) and a fantastic play by a rookie free agent and the Patriots won their first Superbowl in 10 years. I literally sat speech less for a good 5-10 minutes after the last 11 or so minutes of that game played out. My friends and family cheering and going crazy and me just sitting there staring at the screen watching it all unfold as if it was some dream sequence that couldn't possibly be real. And then I snapped out and celebrated with the rest of the fans I watched with.

The next morning I woke up, well afternoon, and I was laying in bed remembering the miracle grab on the five yard line and having flashbacks to Manningham and Tyree. Then a few seconds later I realized the Patriots won and a big smile went across my face. Unbelievable.

I know everyone is focusing on when a bad play call it was, i'm not hearing much criticism of Wilson. That was a terrible throw. If it's thrown more to the right its a game winning touchdown.

True to a point. If that was another QB, like Romo for example, he'd be getting blasted. Not the coach or the coordinator. But, if you see what Wilson saw, the receiver was wide open when he released the ball. He led him towards the end zone. Butler just made an amazing read and break on the ball and beat Lockette to it. He anticipated perfectly, Wilson didn't expect Butler to break through, but Browner prevented the pick from being set. He and Butler played it perfectly. Wilson, hoped or assumed his receivers would do the same. They didn't. I don't think you can assign blame to any one specific person.

I agree. This is the play as Wilson is about to throw it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8z0jLiIYAMCtkV.jpg:large

It was a great play by Butler. If anything the wr Lockett could have made a stronger attempt at the ball.

Bob Kravitz, the guy who broke the news on Deflategate, apologized in a sense for jumping the gun today. His assumptions led many others down the same path. Terrible journalism, at least he realizes it now. There are many others though who followed his lead and are sticking to their convictions. It's embarassing.

http://www.wthr.com/story/28071580/kravitz-a-sort-of-mea-culpa-on-deflategate