Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok so I was thinking as Axl is the lone original member of GN'R left this would be a good question to ask fellow fans and see what they feel. And there is no right or wrong answers as it comes down to individual opinions.

So my questions are these. Which two musicians in the original GN'R other than Axl contributed most to the bands unique sound. And which two besides Axl in the 1999 to present lineup help retain that unique sound and move it forward?

My two from the old days would be Duff and Izzy. Duff because as with Flea in the Chili Peppers his bass playing style is all his own. Whatever genre style Guns were playing Duff could adapt to but still keep it sounding like him if that makes sense. And Izzy because whilst I prefer Gilby as a guitarist. No one can deny that either as co writes or by himself he contributed so many classic Guns tunes. And Izzy's true to what he believes in. He could have stayed in the then worlds biggest band and made a lot more money. But he wasn't happy with some aspects so left. That takes balls. And he still seems on good terms with everyone.

My two from 99 to present are Dizzy and Tommy. Dizzy not just because he's (besides Axl) the only musical link to the old band. He just seems to have taken the sound of piano and keys from Illusions and evolved it on Chinese Democracy in a way that the songs sound like theyre new and fresh but not some 17 years after Illusions. And Tommy for same reasons as Duff. He's got his own unique style. But his playing and feel he gives the songs is not a million miles away from Duff's own playing.

1987 - 1993: Slash

1999 - Present: Bucket/Brain/Robin/Bumble.

I Know you said "two", but being a completely different band than what it was in 1999, I couldn't stop at just Bucket and Brain.




 :peace:

The classic band is obviously Slash. 

But post-classic band, I think Buckethead.  I know he's long gone, but when I think of the stuff on the album I think really stands out, its him.

I think Richards presence lately has been enormous. During the 06 tours Robin had a commanding presence, from what I've seen in 2011 US Tour Richard had the most commanding presence. I felt during the Vegas run BBF had the strongest presence. I think it all depends on the tour. They all get a chance to shine !

Slash for the original lineup..
As far as CD/current it's hard to say.. CD, as great as it is,was pieced together in many aspects..Different guitarists and drummers playing throughout individual songs often complimenting what another has played makes it hard to decipher who's sound is who's..

I know I said that theres no right or wrong answers. But it's interesting that you say picking Slash is obvious. If I were going solely on sense of groove and feel I'd pick Gilby. If it was based on who played lead guitar and got all the solos it would be Slash. I picked Izzy more because his song writing and co writes to me contributed to the bands sound at least as much as any guitar solo.

No disrespect to Slash. but something I like about Chinese Democracy is not all the guitar solos are played by any one member. I hope that when the new album arrives that the guitar solos are shared again and Richard gets some this time.

Mostly Izzy back in the day..Buckethead was deff my favorite when it came to sound defining

If anyone chooses Ashba im going to hang myself :rofl:

87-93 Slash and Duff / 1999-onwards Robin Finck and Buckethead.  8)

Izzy/Duff/Slash/Axl (it depends on which song you pick, but generally there was a lot of cooperation)

Finck/Axl until 2002 and from then on Axl  (who noticed that the industrial things didn't work and that's probably why finck left the band in 2007...it was the end of the guns n roses' sound restyling project)

To be honest I'd whittle it down even more to just 1 per era. I'd choose Slash for 87-93 and Finck for 1999-onwards. I think both eras were defined by the bands lead guitarist and this is backed up by how much the sound has changed again since Finck's departure.

Lets not forget B-Foots overdubs , to make it as he stated dirty like a GN'R album should sound..

Hang on??  ''If I were going solely on sense of groove and feel I'd pick Gilby'' How on earth can Gilby be attributed to defining the sound in any way? He plays on no album apart from SI.

Yeah, what is that based on?  Gilby's playing on concert bootlegs from 1992?  Was his rendition of 'Wild Horses' really a game changer?

I wonder how Jarmo will twist this into "DJ defines GNR's sound since 1987".
Go ahead dude, suprise me!

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I doubt), but didn't Dj invent sound? Before him, there was just silence.
Hence the song The Sound Of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel...

Surprise!  : ok:


/jarmo

I said "IF". And thats why despite my respect for Gilby, I went with Duff and Izzy for the early years instead of one of them and Gilby. Yeah Gilby didn't get to play on an album of original Guns material. Not his fault, shit happens. But on Spaghetti, Live Era and the shows he played 91-93 he played his ass off and had a remarkable sense of groove. OK.

Still makes no sense. "If I were going on a sense of groove I'd pick Gilby as defining GN'R's sound"??  Nonsense... If he's not on the albums he can't be attributed to anything.

With new Guns it's definately Finck and Bucket. Maybe more Finck in terms of songs also, and more Big B in terms of soloing and guitar parts as opposed to songs, but both have majestic contributions to the Guns legacy. The guitarwork on Better, SOD, TWAT, Sorry and TIL is simply stunning.  Also in the loop is Brain. Check out the drum track on Shackler's. Also TWAT and Prostitute. Brain has such a charismatic sound - and feel.  Hard to say about Goose and Paul Tobias; the latter has a hand in a lot of the writing for Chinese. Speaking of "sound" - check out Tobias on that big clunky (and ugly) guitar as he starts strumming Paradise City at Rock in Rio III in 2001. That sounds so unbelievably cool.

GREAT post, and I agree 100%. Thanks also for reminding everyone how great Tobias played the Paradise City intro, his tone for that was perfect as well as his technique.

I think this topic is pretty silly.... i feel everybody contributed in all eras

the people that recorded all songs prior to Chinese Democracy clearly all shaped the sound of those songs....Slash stands out but that probably has a lot to do with just his image more than anything else... but certainly he alone doesnt define the sound

and obviously all the people who helped make Chinese shape the sound of those songs....Buckethead, Brain and Robin.... while dont do anything for me performing songs previous to Chinese.... recorded some amazing tracks on that album and its a shame we dont get to see them perform them anymore



not to knock some of the newer players... but aside from ron redoing some parts on Chinese.. these people have never recorded any  Guns N roses releases

and Chinese was Axl's baby regardless of how much or how little input other players put into it.. so id say he really is the driving force behind its sound

paul Tobis .... that name just aggravates me...regardless of the outcome i think it was wrong of Axl to push him on the group when it was obvious they were not comfortable with him from the beginning

and obviously he wanted nothing to d with being in the band anyway ..how many shows did he play? 2? 3? lol

Obviously Richard will always be the better all round choice for Guns, especially regarding a live environment. But don't knock Paul, he is a very gifted musician who co wrote Back Off Bitch. I liked alot of the guitar work I heard at Rio 2001, like the Think About You rhythm, the Rocket Queen slide solo and the Paradise City intro. He's a close friend of Axl who supported him throughout the hard times, he's a great guy.

I realize Axl valued his work/support/whatever you wantt o call it a great deal... whether he is a good guy or not...i certainly would not know

he did not last in the public eye for very long

Did you even read my posts? I picked Izzy and Duff and not Gilby from the classic era. I just personally like his guitar style and believe he played well on the 91-93 tours, Live Era and Spaghetti albums. I never said he contributed more to the sound than anyone else. Just that he plays well. I'm entitled to think Gilby's a cool player as you are entitled to have your favourite players.

Frank didn't get to write any CD songs and plays on less than half the album. He still kicks ass on what he does play on and is awesome live. Should we all diss him too cos he hasn't had a co write on an album yet? Course not.

I don't dislike Paul. I just dislike that Axl fired Gilby and replaced him with Paul without even talking to the rest of the band. And sure Paul was in the band from 94-2002. But when you consider he only finished up playing bout three shows with Guns, it makes you wonder whether it was worth Axl and Slash falling out over the guy and Slash eventually quitting. Not saying that Paul was their only issue, but it certainly came between Axl and Slash.

I'm a bit confused.

Is this thread about how one "feels" about a member past or present or about which members put their stamp on the GnR sound.. past and present?

The latter is by far the most interesting.

It was to see what other Guns fans felt regarding who in old and new bands helped most shape the Guns sound. That being said if forum fans want to speak their mind on certain bandmembers or whatever I can't stop them. Nor would I even try. Presumably if anyone over steps the mark Jarmo or a moderator would say. Or a post would get edited/deleted.

Great subject for discussion...
Slash's playing style,technique and sound defined GN'R's sound.Duff,Izzy,steven,gilby and matt complimented slash's sound.
Alongside Axl's vocal style and singing which are an entity alone.That it up to the mid 90's.
From there on it's Axl alone and just him.he was above everyone and everything up to the release of CD.

Dj's personality and guitar style have the potential to be the future defining member.No disrespect to Fortus and Bbfoot they both are great.

I think Axl and Slash defined the sound of GNR with Duff, Izzy, Steven, and Matt supporting them. In the CD version of GNR, it's just Axl. As I said before, CD was too disjointed for anyone else to make their own sound. You didn't have permanent members. IF a new album comes about, I would look for DJ to be influential on it.

I don't know how people can say that post 1999 it's just Axl who defined GN'R's sound. Axl had the vision yes, but he needed players to create it and I think Robin, Bucket and Brain defined the GN'R sound just as much as Axl. Obviously in the old days it was mainly Axl and Slash, but it's definitely a combination of a few players as well as Axl post 1999. And I think players like Robin, Bucket and Brain had a huge role sound wise as well as Axl of course.

Don't forget Dizzy.

I personally feel the whole feel of appetite is glued together by Steven Adler's drumming. It's perfect for that album. But then again that is pretty much 'the perfect album' where the 5 parts make up the whole.

Completely agree about cd- it's impossible to credit Axl alone. Personally fink stands out for me. His guitar work on Better, TIL & sorry is fantastic.

I didn't.All the respect to Dizzy but to me Guns has always been guitar oriented.Even on the classic piano songs,don't need to mention them,the guitar parts overshadow piano and synths.The same is for TWAT,TIL and Street of Dreams.
That is why i go with Ashba as the next defining member.

Agree on most part,but as far as what we know every player had instructions from Axl as to what to play.If that's not accurate and the guitarists had freedom then most of us fans are misled.

Hardly. Have you read the song-writing credits for Chinese Democracy? Whilst Axl wrote all the lyrics, 13 out of the 14 tracks are band co writes. And even the band members who didn't get to co write tracks. Well I think Axl chose them cos he knows they can play and play well.

Only song I heard Axl wanted the music part to stay the same was CD the song. From memory Josh gets a special credit for drum arrangement or something.

Come on really, are you seriously suggesting that Axl showed Robin and Bucket how to play their guitar parts. Yeah, I can just imagine Axl showing Robin how to play the TIL solo  :hihi: . I think your getting Axl's way of doing things mixed up with NIN's and Trents'. Axl may guide the song, but everyone's inputs are their 100% own work, and artistic style. The only exception is maybe Dizzy because Axl is actually a very gifted pianist, so he may well tell Dizzy exactly what to play. But the rest?, nah not in a million years, that's all their own work trust me.

The only part i disagree is about Dizzy.He is a devoted piano player,therefore he is better player than Axl.(Nevermind the bongo drums  :hihi:)
Now did he or did not get instructions to play the piano songs on CD in a certain way,is a blind guess.
Imo This I love being so special to Axl ,like November Rain, yeah he might have wanted it played 100 %this way.
How do you explain the note for note transcriptions for Brain coming in after Josh Freese ? because they're drummers ? could be.Guitar players must have been 100 % free and creative ,I agree.

To be honest I wouldn't say that Dizzy is flat out better than Axl in piano playing. They are probably both on the same level and that's why it's not hard to comprehend Axl writing alot of the keyboard/piano parts and then telling Dizzy to play it live, much like the UYI days. Now it's alot more harder to imagine Axl telling Robin or Bucket exactly how to play their guitar parts, especially when Axl is knowhere near the skill level to even attempt this. Maybe a riff, or chords progression, but not a solo note for note, that's why it can't be all Axl when we talk about GN'R's sound from 1999 onwards. It's the same as the old band, Axl (most likely) writes the piano parts and lets Dizzy play them live, but with Slash he only guided him as to the mood/feel of the song, then he wrote 100% of the solo, same with Robin and Bucket.

I think the guys have SOME creative wiggle room to play with...for example...Dj has changed bits and pieces of the TIL solo as well as the Sorry solo to put his own style on them and I think they sound better than the way robin and bucket played them. Then you have the way he does the patience solo...WAY different and has made it his own the way HE feels like playing it. Most of the songs are so iconic you can't really tinker with them very much at all, but on certain songs or solos I think they have more opportunity to put their own style into them than most people think. I think Axl loves the band he has right now and lets them do more creatively than he has in the past.

Some? I'd be willing to put my money on the fact that Axl doesn't even really give much input. Or does it mostly in a suggestive fashion open for anyone in the band. I'm pretty sure he's not at all a control freak(ish) when things are going well. He's handpicked the guys in the band so I'm pretty sure they share the vision of what the back catalogue (or newer) material should sound live today. And I'm pretty sure Axl trusts everyone in the band enough not to worry about any tweaks such seasoned professionals wish to make in the performances.

No wonder why the post Illusion lineup took all those years to assemble...up to 2009 with Ashba,now to me it seems the most promising and stealth ever.
Even from the old days.You don't get the "timebomb" feeling.
Axl had to assemble all these guys,not only for their playing skills, creative writing wise too.
So it's insane to not give them all the freedom and space to evolve personally,but the whole band to evolve.