Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.radiorock.fi/?vt=video&vid=347733,

Interesting atleast...

i didnt know hes in finland now :o

good interview. and if youre reading this: I BUY RECORDS!!

hes really into that chick :hihi:

This was last weekend.

 They don?t rush to make an album because people don?t buy albums anymore. There aren?t record store to buy an album. Why? Because of the internet. And because people want music for free. Well it?s clearly an answer

  :smoking:

Another part: http://www.radiorock.fi/?vt=video&vid=347730



/jarmo

Yeah. Now i really wanna hear the new Tool stuff  : ok: : ok:

Next release hopes dashed for the foreseeable?

For this year, certainly.  But, I don't think that has to do with Pitman or any other band member.  Ultimately, it comes down to what Axl and the label agree upon and whether or not they want to release previously recorded material or start from scratch with this lineup for the next record.  Starting from scratch would certainly take longer.

Ali

I've been supporting and hoping blindly for too long.  This kind of confirms that they are milking their legacy instead of trying to create a new one.  Its a real shame. 

I agree, about over it :-\

This was one of the saddest things I've ever heard since Im a GNR fan.

Very, very dissapointed. I dont know if Im interested in a band that just ''goes out and play songs that people know''.

For the record, im not a hater. I've been heavily supporting and ''defendind'' this band since 2001.

And I HATE to agree with 14 Yrs Of Silence's post, but I do.

i get his point, but that isint a reason not write new music and play it live or do something with it.
i see it as a positive thing, gives the artist more time with his music.

I think Chris is talking in general terms. Artists with a big catalog of popular songs can often tour without any new material out.

They don't necessarily need to put out a new album in order to have a new tour. There's bands who do tours because they put out a compilation of their hits (I saw Depeche Mode on the Singles86-98 tour), there's bands who do tours based on old albums/tours (Iron Maiden for example just did it, The Cult are out there playing their old album in full) and there's bands who do anniversary tours.

All of the above can be done without putting out a new studio album.





/jarmo

Speaking of, I just saw this article about Springsteen.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/is-bruce-springsteen-on-a-never-ending-tour-20130816

Why do tours need to have clear start and stop dates? Everyone from Metallica to Elton John to Paul McCartney launches tours whenever they feel like, regardless of how recently they released a new album. Why should Springsteen be any different?

Ali

I think people are still used to the old cycle of album - tour - break - album - tour.




/jarmo

Yes, I agree.  The thing is that was the model for so long that people are accustomed to it.  However, it seems like since the rise of P2P file sharing and digital music downloads (legal and otherwise), record sales have plummeted.  As such, less and less of artist's income comes from record sales.  The lost income has to come from some other source, so more touring, or more legs of a tour between albums is what seems to be more of the norm these days.

Ali

Generally, I agree. No need for clear start and stop dates, but colossal difference between the boss and GN'R.
Bruce maybe on an "endless" tour by his standards(Wrecking Ball came out March 2012), but he's got 17 albums under his belt. He continues to be a prolific songwriter, whereas GN'R's tour is another whole ballgame of endless. Axl has put out one album since '91. Bruce has put out 9. He's put out 6 albums in the time Axl has been touring with post classic lineups. That equals Axl's lifetime discography, if we generously include SI, and Lies as an LP.

Relevant bands continue to release new music, whether it lines their pockets or not.

I think you're missing the point.  It wasn't about a comparison between Springsteen and GN'R.  Springsteen was just an example.  There are others.  Metallica, for one, has not released in album in nearly 5 years as well.

Ali

I dont know why the word ''tour'' is present in this discussion. The big dissapointment here is knowing we will not have new music in the medium/long term. Touring has nothing to do with this. I think a lot of fans would ''tolerate'' (I dont know what is the right word to use, sorry) a big gap of time without shows if they know new music is underway. ''Playing songs the people know'' sounds like ''lets make all the money we can as long as we can with the hits from 25 years ago'' to me (because everybody knows WTTJ-ISE-MB-LALD are gonna be there in the setlist, and in that exact order, for ever and ever, but you never know with the newest music from CD)

Yeah, I know: this aint a Burger King. I think GNR's new aim is the new generation of fans who may still be interested in attending a ''greatest hits show'' from a neverending Greatest Hits Tour. I think it's pretty safe to say that the long time fans want new music, and would relegate live shows for that. Again: I know we CANT demand anything...

P2P has nothing to do with creation of new music. P2P clearly affects the sales of physical albums (compact discs, digital video discs, vinyls, etc), but with nowadays technologies you have other ways to distribute your music and still have profit. Or do you think we are experiencing ''the end of music''? Come on, normal artists still write music, and new music will pop up for ever. Just to give a familiar example: Buckethead releases 4 or 5 albums per year...

Can't disagree with anything here, well said estebanf. I personally think the change in GN'Rs and Axl's direction in both attitude and vibe to creating something "new" is shocking. It's hard to imagine back in the early 2000's Axl being content in playing the hits, and seemingly not being as bothered as he used to seem, about creating new music and a new direction for the group.

Still, Metallica has managed 4 albums since classic GN'R disbanded. 5 if you include LuLu, and we know they are in the process of writing for another with Rubin. Their track record and open communication affords them the luxury of a 5 year gap w/little to no criticism.

GN'R could change the way they go about doing things if they truly care about the ridicule, which it doesn't seem they do, and that's their right and understandable.

Maybe Guns is secretly recording, but all signs point to them resting on their creative laurels and keeping the seemingly endless Chinese Democracy tour rolling. For a band that never technically disbanded, you'd think their creative output since 1993 would be greater than 1 album.
That's 1 more album than my band (I don't have a band).

Comparing artists is always a bit difficult.

Let's say you're an independent artist recording stuff at home on your laptop. Your budget and the break even point are way different to somebody on a major label.

Even comparing artists that are on major labels is difficult. One artist might have a fan base who isn't as into computers as another one. So one has more fans who download stuff for free, while the other has more fans who go to Walmart to buy the cd. For example.

It's no secret that a lot of people have no problems paying more for a cup of coffee in the morning than they are prepared to spend on entertainment such as music.



There's a reason why many artists put out those special deluxe super editions of their albums. They know their hardcore fans will happily spend hundreds of dollars on a nice package while the majority illegally downloads the music for free....


/jarmo

Who said P2P has anything to do with creation of music?

Who said GN'R were like normal artists?

The ability to make money from music sales has decreased since the dawn of P2P. While there may be other ways to make money from music, such as licensing, but I've yet to see anything to say those alternatives other than touring make up lost income from sales effectively.

Ali

Jarmo whats your point here ?

Of course GNR can tour at anytime, its GNR for fuck sakes.  Sounds like they'v become a nostalgia act now though, which is fine, but I'd prefer a new album and legacy, but if Axl doesn't want to do that and live off the old hits, all good, its his life, kind of a real shame though. 

There are tons of bands (most bands) that still put out good albums on a fairly regular basis, just because the music business has changed is no excuse for not putting out new music for your fans to hear. 

Two very good posts...damn. I didn't even read the interview, but I get the gist of if from the comments, hopefully its just a curve ball for us fans.

Little to no criticism?  That's funny because a few weeks ago when there was the announcement of the soundtrack album to the Through The Never movie, that was exactly one of the criticisms I saw on RS.com. 

LuLu was not a Metallica album.

GN'R has not been "secretly" recording, either.

http://www.glidemagazine.com/20543/richard-fortus-of-guns-n-roses/

You?ve been out a long time with GNR, haven?t you?

Yeah and I was out with Thin Lizzy last summer. Then I came back and did three months with them in Europe, came straight back and I?ve been out with Guns since then. We went straight in to rehearsals and recording and down to South America for six weeks and then started in the US and we?ve been gone the whole time. So I just got home.

Ali

Well to be honest I really don't follow Metallica much these days. Amazing band, but lost interest after Justice.
As we all know, the majority of comments on the internet are criticism based. Granted I'm assuming, but would think their leash is a bit longer than GN'R since they have been far more productive over the course of their careers.

Point of bringing up Lulu was that the band was actively producing, under the name Metallica or not.

We hear a lot of contradictory info from various members of present GN'R members, and personally I don't put much stock into what any members sans Axl says, because at the end of the day, he holds the keys, and he's really the only member I'm a fan of.

If Fortus says they're recording, fantastic. Hopefully it translates into something.

I agree we have contradictory info. Pitman made it very clear that they are not in a hurry to make an album because according to him nobody buys albums anymore.

Anyway we don?t have a tour either. All we have is a possible show in Brasil. It may or may not happened.

Then there is people who says that Axl want an neverending tour to make money. Well if that was the case he would do a reunion tour because it would be the fast an easy way to make tons of money. He is not doing that.

I do believe that the industry right now is more interested in Lady Gaga and BS like that than in GN?R or Metallica. And that?s not helping our cause

in the end the huge GN'R b(r)and name might just be too heavy being on one man's shoulders....

Maybe not, but Metallica sure as hell played on it, and it was still a new release of new music, which is exactly the point being made.

It's just disheartening that a band we all love is so complacent these days.

If you're a true artist, you don't make new music for money as your goal, you do it because you're creative.

So many other artists are releasing new music without financial motives, it's sad to see GN'R making every excuse under the sun as to why they can't.

Once there was this rock n' roll band. Rollin' on the streets. Time went by and it
became a joke

All in all its a massive waste of talent.

I tend to agree with the sentiments in this thread. It's a huge waste of time, songs, enjoyment, energy, legacy and it's a shame. GN'R don't owe me anything, but we are here because we support them and LOVE them. Seeing time go by is a sad thing, when so many things should have or could have been done. I just know we are all going to look back in the future and think how much time was wasted, and think "why?".

No, actually, that was not the point being made. Metallica was referenced as a band that no longer has clear start and stop dates for tours in an article on Brice Springsteen.

Ali

Even Lady Gaga's been saying she's not sure if the record company is going to be supportive of this new album as they had been of the previous two, she wants to be around for the long term and not just a memory of the over the top outfits.

The recording industry seems to be focusing back on supporting artists and not chasing soccer moms whose kids downloaded hit songs on file share sites. If anything, there's more discouragement to go to file share sites now and buy a song for a dollar, or free if there's a promotion going on.

Tell that to Adele!

That interview is so depressing.

I buy records, everyone I know that loves music buys music, everyone I know that loves music wants new music. To hear musicians say things like in this interview really gets to me.

I agree with all the comments in this thread- it seems like that's it in terms of getting any new music in the near or medium future.

Sad times, but I think now I can officially stop thinking I'll be hearing anything new from my favourite band. A massive waste.

It seems like gnr is more a business then a band now a days, the music is looked at as a product rather then art. It's a shame , axl rose isn't getting any younger and we aren't either, if it was me I would want to know I left a mark on Rock n roll and left a great legacy, if I was already financially stable I wouldn't let record sales deter me from releasing music. The real fans (what's left of them) are going to turn on him for running the name into the ground.

Ugh.

GN'R is this, GN'R is that. Always the same complaining.

I suspect there's real GN'R fans who are aware of the fact that GN'R is GN'R. Always been that way!
They're not some other band, so they don't compare them to other bands.
They know art doesn't have a schedule. They know GN'R does things on their terms, not on the terms of Internet keyboard warriors who spent their free time judging and guessing about shit they know very little, or nothing, about.


If you know anything about GN'R or Axl, you should know that he does things on his terms. How this seems like a mystery or news to some is beyond me.
And yet people get upset when there's an update saying there's no news at the moment. You have people starting shit and the band sets the record straight and people get upset? Really? What happened to the "there's no communication" complaints?




/jarmo

GNR isn't GNR dude, what is guns n roses to you? Axl Rose? It's been 20 years with 1 record, I understand your unrelentless support of axl and whatever he's doing has gotten you backstage and a few connections with his Brazilian friends but lets be real here, it's become a nostalgia act. With a revolving door of hired "guns" and the never ending Chinese democracy tour( with a set of 80 percent old songs) guns n roses was my led zeppelin, my Aerosmith , my rolling stones... It's hard not to be frustrated with the situation, axl rose and axl rose alone is the reason there's no reunion, and he's the reason were not getting any new music from the new guns. Maybe some backlash from the real fans will do the situation some good...

GN'R is a band fronted by Axl Rose. That's always been the case!  : ok:

Revolving door?
When will you people stop with that bullshit? It just shows you how ignorant you are.

This line up has been together since at least 2009. They only lost one guy between now and 2007. It's not more of a revolving door than GN'R was back in the day when Steven was fired or Izzy quit! This line up has played more shows together than the whole Use Your Illusions tour (during which the band changed their rhythm guitarist). Imagine that.



I prefer artists who are true to themselves instead of those that try to be something they're not. If that means not doing what you're "supposed to", then it's fine.

I've had a bunch of bands I listen to break up or change line ups over the years. I know it happens. People change, I get that. So when it happened to GN'R, I didn't get upset or angry.


Music is something positive to me. The records/songs I like have given me hours and hours of enjoyment ever since I discovered music. I'm grateful that the artists responsible for those have shared them with us.
I don't demand material from these people. I know these people are people like you and me. They just have talents that differ from someone like myself. I can't write songs, play instruments or sing...


Maybe that's the difference. If an artist only released one album, I'm grateful for that instead of being upset that I don't have two....



/jarmo

We're all 'real' fans, we know they do things on their own terms, we're just very disappointed by an interview with a band member in which he very clearly states there is absolutely no drive or motivation whatsoever to make new music. We're not starting shit, we've just had the record set straight by a band member who seems to know what is going on, and are a little disappointed.

What exactly did he say that disappointed you?

"You don't have to be in a hurry to make a record anymore because people don't buy it.".
"People don't wanna buy it, so we don't have to put it out (laughs)".

These comments are all after talking about Tool. And then he says just like with GN'R, there's no hurry to release music these days and that they can go out to play shows anyway.

What's new about this? GN'R has toured in the past without albums out. Like many other bands.

A musician expressing his frustration with people listening to his music for free. Is that something new?



/jarmo

I've tried to explain this many times but some "fans" don't seem to get it.

It's the lines:

"Why the fuck put a record out? It works both ways: people don't want to buy it so we don't have to put it out....we'll go out and play songs people know, but we're not knocking ourselves out to release music. There's no need to now. It's not the time and place"

that disappoint me.  To me, that's a clear statement from a band member that there is nothing new to be done- that the band to them is about going on tour and playing the songs people know. Which, obviously, is good in terms of seeing them live, but it would be strange for  any GNR fan not to be a bit disheartened by the seeming lack of interest in doing anything new.

Jarmo sounds like a broken record, I swear I'v heard him say the same things over a million times over and over, must get real tiring !..... "band doesn't own us fans anything" "keyboard warriors complaining", "fans are never happy". .....its getting real old to hear.

GNR is a nostalgia act now, lets face it, or else prove the real fans wrong and put an album out, but at this point we should probably just shut up and accept the fact that GNR is done as far as being a reliant NEW band that puts out new music. They are the best classic rock touring band for sure right now, hopefully will be for awhile, but I'm not expecting any new music anytime soon, sure would be an amazing surprise though!   I don't think its AXL being a dick, I just think there are a lot of misc. things that we don't understand that prevent GNR from releasing more music, they sure have the skills and ability, we all know that ! Maybe one day we'l find out more, but I'd say its mostly just BUSINESS.

Cris Know

 : ok:

But you've heard other band members say the opposite!

When other band members talk about writing new songs, people don't pay any attention, it's just talk. Now when Chris says something, it's taken as 100% evidence that there'll never be a new GN'R album?




/jarmo

But have we? I remember Ashba saying something briefly, and Bumblefoot pretty much saying what Pitman has a while back. We haven't heard much positive about new material at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong though and I've missed something....

As far as I remember, Dj has said he has written a bunch of songs. Several band members have said there's songs that were recorded in the past.

Bumblefoot has said they haven't gotten together as a group to write.



Nobody has said they'll never release another record ever again.




/jarmo

True. Interviews like this just don't make us feel too positive. Fingers crossed we may be pleasantly surprised in the future though!

What are the chances of a rock star like me getting a new album from a fan like Axl ?



Nobody has said they'll never release another record ever again.


/jarmo
[/quote]


So you telling me there's a chance !   :hihi:

on a side note, i heard a new dumb and dumber is coming out next year with Jim carey and Jeff daniels, should be great..

Looks like Chris doesn't believe in not making new music after all:

CPitmanofficial: hi Ronnie, all is good, but not too silent,...were back in studio making new records...cool things happening! http://pic.twitter.com/RxsoMuIQDO


 :hihi:



/jarmo

Thanks Jarmo. Do you know what the tweet was he was responding to?

I can't see it.

Ali

Me neither. I don't see any indication that he's talking about Guns.  ???

It is evidence that nobody in the band knows nothing about anything concerning the band. Someone says they are working on it, another says
we won?t put out a cd.

One thing is for sure, only one is making decissions and in result, we have one cd in 20 yrs.

Maybe we're annoyed because DJ tells us in every second interview he does that an album is being worked on and "is the band's main priority", then we get an interview like this that debunks all that.

What the fuck are we supposed to think?

Yeah, GN'R ain't like every other band, and that's one of the things I love about them, but it just seems like that very trait means they can't do anything right when a million other bands don't have these issues or excuses.

I don't know why people are bothered by Chris' interview.

GNR haven't done or said anything other than what Axl's said in interviews 2 years ago, taking shows to places the band's never played before. They have enough of a break to do their own thing, not to be bothered by Axl's decision not to work on new music goes.

DJ answers new music questions to the best of his knowledge, but he can't speak on behalf of Axl. He's always working on new songs and ideas for GNR but when they get together, the itinerary is for new shows and not studio time.

I'm sure someone asks about plans to go in the studio every time they get notified from management about getting together to rehearse.

 : ok: : ok:
 :rofl: :beer: : ok: :drool:

Here's the facts:


Dj has said that he has written songs for GN'R.
Chris says there's no hurry to make albums because of the current state of the music business.
Axl, Bumblefoot, Richard and possibly others have all said songs were recorded that didn't end up on Chinese Democracy.



I don't think any of this contradicts what the others have said.

Your main priority might be to eat our lunch but that doesn't stop you from answering your phone while eating. ;)




/jarmo

As Ron is in Albania at present, I've got a funny feelin, they aren't referring to a Guns album being made in that studio...

Why does Ron need to be present for Chris to lay down a synth track or vocal harmonies?

I'm not saying this is GN'R related, but Ron's absence would not preclude Chris from adding his work on a GN'R track.

Regardless, it shows that Chris isn't so opposed to making new music. 

Ali

It could be the new Tool album. Chris plays synth on their ?nima album and also played with them on the tour supporting the album.

Sounds like Pitman's just working on his club mixes/set for Blowout, but did he work with Bumblefoot on some songs?

We know Sixx: AM have something in the works, question is going to be whether they're going to tour or not.

 

Gah, I dunno Jarmo.  You'd be hard pressed not to say that the members aren't falling all over eachother with contradictory statements regarding the next album. 

Richard has said that the album is "almost finished" and that the band has been recording regularly, might be released in 2014.  Ron says that they haven't even sat down in a room together to write, let alone record.  DJ says he's sent Axl 12 demos and that the next album is the band's "main priority.  Chris Pitman says Guns "doesn't care" about releasing new music, and that it isn't the right time to put anything out.

I'm trying to get around my head why wouldn't they release a new album?

Now I can understand in 01-08 you had band members come and go, so it seemed like a bit of a start-stop back to square one scenario. Then there has been management issues. Even through all that, they released Chinese Democracy.

However, since 2009 we've had the most solid lineup yet, no one is high or drunk and can't perform, the members are there because they want to be and they haven't left. Each member has experience in creating and producing music, then you have Axl who has been in the band since day one, with all his experience.

Yet, I'm still clueless to why there isn't even a hint of a new album, like there was with Chinese years before it's release.  ??? Surely there's millions of $$ to be made by even just throwing together the tracks that didn't even make it on Chinese Democracy. Even though there has been plenty times in the last 4 years for the band to write and create new music.

I'm not desperate for a new album, but I just wan't to try and understand GNR's strategy (was it always there intention to tour the world twice since CD released?) and what obstacle's were in there way holding up releases like the london dvd, Vegas dvd.

i wonder if when most of the members joined GNR they realised what an insanely legally complicated entity they were becoming a part of...

I don't think the band's lack of production as far as any releases are concerned have much to do with contractual stuff... im sure there are some hurdles.... but Del James even said in that interview that Chinese Democracy was released only when Axl wanted to release it... thats what he said... I see no reason why hed twist GNR"S version of the truth......

With all due respect, you're taking that quote from Del James out of context.  The discussion was about whether or not Axl was waiting to release Chinese Democracy due to heavy metal's declining popularity.  That's when Del James said what he did, and he did not say that there was no other contributing factor to the time to make the record.  Which is not to say that Axl and/or his assessment of the record's readiness did not have a significant effect or influence.

As far as this being "GN'R's version of the truth", that is not true.  Here is what Tommy Stinson has said about Roy Thomas Baker's involvement on two separate occasions:

What happened when producer Roy Thomas Baker was brought in?
He wanted to re-record everything, because he felt he could get better tones. In my opinion, he wasted many years and many millions of dollars trying to get us better sounds that we could have addressed in the mixing stage. I?m not a proponent of his style of producing. I think Iovine put Roy Thomas Baker in the producer seat because he didn?t think the raw sounds were good enough. Then Roy came in and would try every Marshall guitar amp in a five-state area to find just the right guitar tone. And he wanted to do that for every single part on the album.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=174

"You know, I just see us making a record much quicker, because, in hindsight, a lot of what happened with Chinese Democracy, we could get around now. Mostly what happened with that record, why it took so long, was we just had no help from the record company whatsoever. [Axl] got zero fucking help from anyone outside the band to fucking do it. You know, it just got stupider and stupider as the record company kept throwing bad A&R guys [at us], or producers like Roy Thomas Baker who, you know, he made things sound better, but that wasn't' what we needed. We needed someone to help us fucking sow it up, and he came in fucking re-recorded everything five fucking times with every amp in the country. I just don't think that was something that was really important to making a record, that could have been taken care of in the mix."

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/uponsun/2011/12/tommy_stinson.php

Ali

fair enough...I agree his answer about the release was not cut n dry.. but it wasnt a well thought out answer if you think about it... ha because unless you know the ins and outs of the problems with production in great detail... you are going to take away from it what I did..

I thought his tone was terrible... just my opinion... its consistent with the attitude of we are GNR we dont care what you think  or how we go about our business ...and that attitude is certainly why most of us became fans a long time ago.... but now with such lack of musical production...its getting very old and tiring... we only want the product from the group...and we get backlash for it and for inquiring about it

at the end of the day what are we all doing here? we are fans of Axl right? what is there to be a fan of if he never puts anything out ? as he has stated he went thru hell to fight for the GNR name and to keep it going... well lets get it moving already ... when they tour again.. I will go...cuz I love the guy as a singer... but its really time to get this ball rolling

truthfully i REALLY wish it never became known to the GNR community that there were so many songs recorded on for CD...because if we didnt know about all those songs...it would be so much less frustrating that we cant hear them


and there would be a lot less backlash towards the guy and his people for not finding a way to release it

LOL, look I think its known on this board that I am not the biggest Axl supporter in the world, but your comment couldn't be further from the truth.  If everyone was under the impression that no music was written I am PRETTY sure the GNR fan community would be complaining louder and asking 'why isn't music being written?'

ha ur probably right..... but its still very frustrating to me that those songs are just sitting there

Different points of view. But not contradicting anything.

Bumblefoot can be in Africa, it doesn't mean Dj can't write/record songs. It doesn't change the fact that Richard thinks there's an almost finished album. Chris might be in Finland saying there's no rush to release anything, but he wouldn't be stopping a release if it came out on Tuesday!


I personally think people are taking quotes here and there out of context. Just like the word tentative, for some reason, means set in stone for a select group of people.


Talking about the subject of downloading and how it affects the artists, saying bands can tour without the need to put out albums, doesn't mean GN'R has no interest in putting out a new album.




/jarmo

Everyone wants to hear what's unheard (even if they're demos), esp. when there hasn't been new music in a long time and a lot of talk about how good the songs they heard were.

I don't think Axl's gotten over how Chinese Democracy was handled to want to deal with those people.

People sound scared that Axl's finding reasons to stay out of the studio, and the recent leaks are going to create a setback where Axl is going to avoid the recording studio for at least another decade.

The last time Axl gave people a date of release, it bit him in the ass. Don't expect release dates or hold your breath for new music.

People thought the wait for UYI was forever.

Wish I could buy some new genuine official new music maybe some day if CD2 ever comes out

I think the train left the station for a sequel/counterpart to CD, but we'll get new tunes.

Maybe they would do a "free" CD2... thinking back to when Smashing Pumpkins did Machina II, but that was more of a "farewell gift" to the fans at the time. Same with NIN's "The Slip".


 

i didnt know you posted here Julian! :)

I've been browsing for years here don't post that often  ;D