Here Today... Gone To Hell!

On the perception that the current version of the Pumpkins is Billy Corgan and a bunch of hired guns, much like Guns N? Roses is Axl Rose and a bunch of hired guns:

?I can appreciate why they think that way. I think the Pumpkins, as a business now, is about a tradition. And you can choose to connect with that tradition or not. I have people with me, as are heard on ?Oceania,? that are part of that tradition. And they?re upholding a legacy, which is important. And if you need to connect to a certain part of the legacy a certain way, that?s your choice. I think you?re making a mistake to deny yourself the opportunity to be open to it. If it doesn?t work for you symbolically, archetypally, or musically, that?s totally fine. My recent quote that I?ve been saying is we?re like Ringling Bros. Circus. You expect a certain type of show a certain type of sway, and you don?t get too caught up on who the high wire act is this year. It?s just you expect them to deliver that thing. And if I?m the ringmaster, great, you know what I mean? It?s my deal.

I think you?ve just gotta be open. I loved the last Guns N? Roses album, you know what I mean? And unfortunately when they were out touring on that record, I didn?t get a chance to see them. But I would have gone. It doesn?t mean I disrespect or don?t appreciate the classic lineup. It just means that I want to have a musical experience with that artist today. And I think that when other people in my generation reinforce those ideas, of course it makes it more difficult, because it makes me look like I?m being difficult, because I don?t want to reform with people who have driven me up the wall, killed my desire to play music and have sued me. But I?m supposed to get back up on stage so they can relive their dream? They forget about my dream. Which is to be a musician in a band with people who actually want to be there with me. Let?s not forget about that end of the dream.

Full Interview  http://blogs.detroitnews.com/poptropolis/2012/10/21/the-smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-on-the-past-the-present-the-future-and-mayonaise/ (http://blogs.detroitnews.com/poptropolis/2012/10/21/the-smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-on-the-past-the-present-the-future-and-mayonaise/)

Perhaps this Dead Horse material
Or its been posted and deleted
Or nobody will care
Either way, read it and liked it. Thought I'd share it
Mods feel free to be mods  :hihi:  :peace:

I always wanted to see the Smashing Pumpkins. Good for Billy Corgan  : ok:

Well said, Billy :beer:

He sought of gets it. Also criticizes musicians for playing the back catalog,aka the hits, instead of focusing on new material. As much as I love hearing CD songs, I along w/ most want to hear some AFD/LIES/UYI material. The last couple of CD legs really had a great mix and unlike previos shows didnot rely to heavily on AFD songs.

I think Corgan just likes it when an artist doesn't rest on their laurels. He's sold off his songs to commercials and made peace with it from talking to Pete Townshend.

I think Smashing Pumpkins opened for GNR at the "Coma" show. Might be why Corgan's complimentary towards Axl.

Amen.

He's not against people playing songs from their back-catalogue. The Smashing Pumpkins themselves play tracks from the band's back-catalogue (sometimes not the hits... sometimes he goes into some real fan-favourite gems instead). He just doesn't like when the band makes the back-catalogue the main focus of the set. This is why ever since the band started, their set has been heavily focused on whatever their latest album is, because he thinks that otherwise it's just nostalgia.

I don't necessarily agree with him. I loved the shows they were doing this time last year, but this year they've been playing Oceania from start to finish. Most people don't know that album, and by the time they've been bringing out the tracks that they would know they've gotten bored and gone home (I don't agree with that attitude, either, myself... I think you should give a band's new material a chance and not just get pissed off that they're playing stuff you know). But it's a lot better attitude than bands like Rage Against The Machine, for example... who have been touring for the last few years without any intention of creating anything new.

All in all, I'm pretty sure Billy would be happy with the way that Guns N' Roses have been balancing their setlist recently. I actually think there'd be a riot if they didn't play Welcome To The Jungle or Sweet Child O' Mine. ;)

that's well said, and yes that's kind of same situation. you can count Robert Smith in the club, too.

Some bands drop the hits from the setlist. I think some people would be disappointed if they were dropped, but people who have seen them multiple times prob. wouldn't miss it.

When it comes to Smashing Pumpkins, when they toured for Zeitgeist, it wasn't like they did that many hits. I think people go to their shows expecting anything and just there to see the band play and support Corgan in what he's doing. I guess if he's losing the audience,  he'd prob. throw an oldie but goodie in.

But I think Axl should've gotten some feedback from Billy Corgan when he was working on Chinese Democracy, not Bob Ezrin, Mr. "I hear 3 releasable songs". I'm sure Del & Paul  went "yeah he made The Wall but he also made that piece of shit The Elder".
 

Axl plays the old songs because the fans enjoy it.


To me that just seems like a nice thing to do if someone is paying to see you perform. So, these other people that still bitch about this need to go to McDonalds and get themselves a whaa burger and some french cries.

Most GN'R shows are running 3+ hours now, they are covering everything. At least one or two songs from every album if not more, It's actually a great mix of new and old. Hopefully soon we'll have some new material to hear come next year, I know that's what the current line-up wants real bad. And if they do,I think it will compete with the OG line-ups work, I really do but only time will tell and with Axl he never rushes anything. These guys have a LOT of talent and all write great on there own, just have to bring it all together and hopefully Vegas will do that.

With all due respect, you do realize Bob Ezrin is a living legend, right? And you might not like The Elder, but there are millions of fans (me included) all over the world who love that album. And by the way, this is what Bob actually said:

"Anyway, I told him basically what you?ve heard. I didn?t tell him ?you have 2 ? songs? and when he sat down, he started saying me that he has finished the record. And I said ?Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn?t ready to be mixed?. I said ?there are two great songs on it and I know that you?re capable of more, that?s the reason why I?m here.  You?re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn?t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren?t great.  But I?m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it?s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better?.   He said ?I don?t agree with that. We are ready to mix?. And I told him ?you have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go?.  I left and I haven?t heard from him since. It was years later when it came out."

Source: http://www.hit-channel.com/bob-ezrin-pink-floydalice-cooperkisspeter-gabriel-producer/2508/#.UK7HQz8pV8t (http://www.hit-channel.com/bob-ezrin-pink-floydalice-cooperkisspeter-gabriel-producer/2508/#.UK7HQz8pV8t)

Yep Billy gets it!

Interesting article.  One thing I would love for GnR to do is release more rough cut or unfinished stuff like Billy does.  Now not everything is gold but it is fun to hear some of the music in rare format or some brilliant songs that were not on any other album.  "Ugly" is a perfect example.  This is one of my favourite Pumpkins songs but was never on any album until the B-sides got released.  I think it would be cool to see GnR just throw out a 20-30 songs as a rough cut album and see what the reaction is.  Even make it simple like digital and download only with a limited printing.

Thanks for finding that! Glad he discussed what actually happened - a 5 minute interaction, but I'm sure when he left, that was the tone Axl's camp gave regarding Ezrin, "fuck that guy, what does he know, we love it Axl".

Interesting to me that he got an honest opinion and felt it was done. In the end, what changed from Ezrin's feedback to what was finally released? To me, "overproduced" means songs get cluttered up with stuff. I don't think Chinese Democracy as a whole is overproduced, but there's times when maybe scaling back here and there would've made some of it sound better.

That's what I was getting at, not my opinion of Elder, because it does have its moments. I'm a big fan of  Lou's "Berlin" even if it's a wristcutter epic as well as "Destroyer". I'm not a big "Wall" fan only because over time, it's gone lower and lower in my favorite Floyd albums. Maybe on a road trip if I haven't heard it in a while.

It's like Jimmy Iovine kept trying to make Axl happy, give him what he wanted, and it wasn't enough. Axl got back to the record company on his time. And part of the problem is that Geffen itself wasn't the same company GNR originally signed with, GNR itself wasn't the same band, and trying to make a big bold statement on someone else's dime, when you're not in a position of having complete ownership, is a huge gamble.

Iovine could've just taken the tapes and shelved them indefinitely. I'm sure if he was asked about it now, he prob. would say he thought about it. But guys like him, Azoff, and David Geffen, you don't want to be their enemy. Way too much power and someone like Axl who tends to wage war and not back down, makes it difficult on himself. Azoff could've prevented GNR from playing any venue in North America.

In the end, the demos are out there, the finished product's out there, and the songs done live haven't had any changes since they were recorded, so I'm sure Axl is content with what was released. It'll still be discussed in years to come as a good album, an overproduced album, an "Axl Rose album", but it's better than not being discussed. 

Yes, he does get it. I liked hearing this perspective because for awhile when Axl was seriously touring with a new lineup years ago, I would often ask the people who bashed that idea what they thought of Billy Corgan taking the Pumpkins around in similar fashion? I found similarities that were quite obvious too.

I saw the Smashing Pumpkins on their last UK tour (think it was probably about a year ago now). It was strange because they were playing a fairly small-medium venue, which was very obviously not sold out (loads of space in the room) but had a full stage set up with a huge amount of gear as if no-one had told them they weren't doing arenas anymore. The lighting rig for instance was so big and bright me and my mate often had to close our eyes.

They played very little old stuff- encored with two old ones, which they rushed through as if they weren't that fussed about doing them. The thing that struck me though was how determined they were to look to a future of new music and new sound- and if that meant less people coming to see them, then so be it. I admired them for that. Few bands do it. Lets face it, if Corgan was to call up the older band members, play nothing but old material, they'd be filling the arenas. Definitely a band that don't want to be a nostalgia act, which is how I see Guns N Roses- they seem to want to push it on too.

Also of course, what people often forget/overlook about the Smashing Pumpkins is that Corgan played all the instruments on the first two Smashing Pumpkins albums. I always enjoy pointing that out to people who bang on about 'liking the original band'........

Billy made a point to end Smashing Pumpkins over a decade ago and go with different projects, a solo project, then "rebooted" the band name. He's given his reasons why. I think it's fun to follow artists like that because you don't know what they're going to do next, and if using the name puts asses in seats, so be it. I don't think most people miss D'arcy & James, maybe they miss Jimmy.

Billy has said that there's no truth to that rumour.

Nope- it's true. Heard him talking about it on BBC Radio 1 here, and it's mentioned here, amongst other places: http://www.crestfallen.com/2011/11/21/siamese-dream-featured-on-zane-lowe-masterpieces-segment/

It took the four of them to create the band,write the songs and perform them, I'm going by what he's said in past interviews, he said why it fell apart, and as the frontman and bandleader, had to make decisions that may have undermined some of them. He couldn't do what Jimmy did on drums.