Here Today... Gone To Hell!

As you know this year, July 21st, is the 25th anniversary of Appetite For Destruction. Best selling debut album of all time. It is also GN'R best selling album of all time with sales exceeding 28 million albums worldwide, and is considered one of the greatest albums of all time.

It is THE ALBUM that gave the kick to glam rocks balls, not grunge. (Grunge destroyed the rock n' roll or at least tried.) It was a much heavier and raunchier album than what was being released with Sunset strip and L.A. scene at the time. Also to many GN'R fans it is THE ALBUM. Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. They were all part of it. Like it or not.

Now that Hall of Fame thing is right around the corner, I was wondering if everything goes well in there and band members make peace etc.. 25th anniversary release wouldn't be so crazy idea after all.
Would you be interested for AFD 25th anniversary release? Many bands and artists releases anniversary versions of their biggest and best albums with new stuff included to the fans, of course.  What would it have included?

- Remastered version of the album? 
- Unrealesed songs and B-Sides? (Shadow of Your Love, You're Crazy first acoustic version?)
- Early Demos?
- Live CD/DVD from that era? Collection of best shows or just one gig?
- Original album cover?
- Full Version of Nightrain (not fade-out album version)
- Songs from GN'R LIES?
- Book? (Updated Reckless Road?)

What would you like?

And to make it clear. This NOT a reunion topic. I want the current line-up to continue their mission and do what they are going to do. CD was only a beginning.

There is a problem. Why not remastering every single album?

AfD 25th Anniversery Boxset:

Cd 1: Original Studio Album
Cd 2: Demos, unreleased song, etc.
Cd 3, 4: Live Versions '85-'93
Cd 5: '99 Demo
Cd 6/7: Live Versions '01-'12
Cd 8: AfD Rerecording 2012

EDIT: they should remaster the albums, when the chi dem trilogy is finished

Quite honestly, no, I would prefer that any repackaging/rereleasing of past stuff to be done only when the band is no longer active. Which I hope won't happen for many years.

HONESTLY I PREFER THEY DID A 20TH ANIVERSARY THING .... FROM DE USE YOUR ILLUSIONS ......

i love those records.... apf is cool ...... but UYI  ARE GREAT !!!!!!!!

How do you re-create perfection?

You don't. But it wouldn't be re-creation. It would be a celebration to one of the greatest album of all time.

Here's an example. Megadeth released last year 25th Anniversary version of their "Peace Sells" album.
http://metalassault.com/Reviews/071211_Megadeth.php

(http://metalassault.com/Reviews/Album%20Covers/megadeth_ps.jpg)

How about the rerecorded AFD with Buckethead and Finck ....

Uffff.... Maybe Re/Recorded

 :smoking:

I would like something like what U2 did with the Joshua Tree "Super Deluxe Edition":

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W7L6zZutL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Joshua-Remastered-Expanded-Deluxe-Edition/dp/B000WTNCQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333966928&sr=8-1)

Content: "The 3 disc box-set format contains The Joshua Tree CD, the bonus audio CD, and a Bonus DVD. This package also includes a 56 page hardback embossed book, featuring previously unseen Anton Corbijn photos, handwritten lyrics by Bono and liner notes by Bill Flanagan, Bono, Adam Clayton, Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois, Anton Corbijn, Steve Averill, David Batstone, Ren? Castro and a special essay by The Edge."

http://www.amazon.com/Joshua-Remastered-Expanded-Deluxe-Edition/dp/B000WTNCQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333966928&sr=8-1 (49$)

For us it would be a box set with the remastered AFD CD, a bonus CD with early demos and unreleased tracks from the 1985-1987 era, and an exclusive pro-shot from that era as well (which means not The Ritz 1988, Philadelphia 1987, Melbourne 1988...).

But I don't think it would happen, because I think they would have done it in 2007 (20 years, as most other bands do including Pearl Jam), and we all know there's an old/ new line-up issue with such remasters (unlike U2 or Pearl Jam, etc.).

I would like no fadeouts (like Nightrain) and a 2012 re-recorded disc.

Fuck that, I want new material in the form of the next album.

I'm all for this. Album need a clean up and remaster. Played it today for the 1st time in a year and was saying to myself. "I really want them to remaster this" and now i see this on here lol... A dvd would be cool. Would end up being the Ritz 88 show i think....But i don't see them doing anything for it or a dvd... I bet they have all kinda stuff they could remaster and add to a cool Package. But all of the band would have to be on the same page for that and i don't see that happing so...lol...

Would love to hear this.

It would be next to impossible to get the best version of a special 25th anniversary release. There are too many people who could never agree on what this should be.

Axl (IMO) would never want to focus that much time honoring the past, it would be counter productive to the marketing of the current line up to keep returning to the Appetite era lineup (see this past weekend). Unless of course the special edition included something from the current lineup like live tracks/video or re recordings, which you would be hard pressed to get buy off from the 'classic' line up.   

It's a huge opportunity, but will probably be a missed opportunity unless the stars align just right.

What might be great though is an Official Live CD/DVD/Blu Ray from a recent show commemorating the 25th anniversary of AFD which would help market the current lineup without opening up to the 'classic lineup' drama.

Didn't Axl want to bury Appetite by the time the Illusion albums were being ready for release? Just a re-release would suffice, re-recording the album is a ridiculous suggestion, whoever you wanted to play on it

If there is anything to be learned from the HOF ceremony, its that the 'classic' lineup will never be the focus of GNR as long as Axl is touring.  If a set like this were to happen it would be far down the road after Axl has hung up his touring/recording cleats.  

Or the "Uber Deluxe Edition" of Achtung Baby :smoking:

(http://i40.tinypic.com/fcsj83.jpg)

I wish they would release a super deluxe of Chinese Democracy. The way it was meant to sound (on vinyl) and all the proper approved artwork with bonus stuff.





/jarmo

Including a re-recorded version of AFD. Why you ask? Well for one they can lend the songs out and the money will be invested in the band and their future projects and not given to former members that chose to quit. Didn't Axl want to supply a re-recorded Jungle for blackhawk Down?

Was it meant to sound different?

I'm all for it. Like a Phew!-Four-Years-Already edition.

like those Pink Floyd Immersion Box Sets that would be killer!

I've always said they should re-release Chinese as a double album, complete with the correct artwork, plus the remaining CD era tracks.  Nice way to kill two birds with one stone.  Too bad it probably won't happen.  :-\

I think what Jarmo is getting at is that most copies of Chinese Democracy on vinyl were massacred by fingerprints with some looking like someone took a fork to the vinyl, thus negatively affecting the sound/overall quality of the album.

Totally agree with Jarmo, but not sure what you are getting at Volcano?
I could be wrong in my recollection of this, but the reason the rerecorded version of the song wasn't included in Black Hawk Down is because the 'others' blocked its use. They still have some control over the catalog for which they have writing credits. So if they chose they could block a rerecorded version of the entire album from being released (again my interpretation which could be wrong).
But if they did choose to agree to it, they would collect the royalties from it. Part of the publishing rights.

Inner groove distortion....


/jarmo

Please no re-recorded albums!!! A remastered version would be nice and the ritz 88 as a bonus but hence wont happen.

As far as Chinese goes, it would be nice to get a new re-issue like jarmo says with a couple of unreleased tracks and maybe release a video for Better?

a re-master would be cool but other than that its not needed.  album was perfect the first time

and to piggy back what jarmo said, lets focus on getting new material instead of releasing old.

The idea of an re-recorded AFD release by the new band or ex-New GN'R members sounds very interesting and something I'd really enjoy being able to listen to.

I could be wrong also. Doesn't Black Frog (Axl's company) own all publishing rights now? And legally can't "the others" only collect on material they actually performed on? also didn't Axl block the original Jungle from being used in the movie? anyone have more insight on this situation?

A release of the re-recorded Appetite would be wrong. As good as it might be it should never see the light of day. Who wants to see Paul McCartney re-release the White Album with other artists?

A collectors boxset would be nice but may be unlikely 'cause it would invovle contact between Axl and Slash.

A gig on the strip to mark the anniversary would be good with Steven, Slash and Duff playing and Izzy if he wants, with an open invite to Axl (even though he wouldnt go) and maybe Duff and Izzy joining the new Guns on stage.

Exactly.  Why waste time on re-recording old albums, especially a masterpiece like AFD??!? I mean c'mon.  Axl has released one album in like 15 years or something.  Do we really want the next album to be songs we've all heard?  If he ever really wants to truly move forward and stop having ppl talking about the classic lineup, he needs to release new music from the current lineup.  If the new lineup re-records music originally made by Slash, Duff, Izzy, etc, then of course people will constantly be comparing the two recordings.  Is that what he really wants?  That makes no sense at all.

As for CD, again - he's released one album in 15+ years.  And now we want him to re-release that same album again??? At this point, it's all about hearing new music.  And we know it's out there somewhere in various unfinished states given all the quotes we've seen in interviews.

I wish to see CD released with the proper cover art. I also wish to hear a remixes CD album. But if it's about AFD, would be cool to have a rerelease with the new AFD rerecorded! From my 3 wishes I can only see the first 2 ones happening (maybe) n' I guess we'll never hear the rerecorded AFD but for the little we heard at the end of Sweet Child.. I guess it rocks !

as for AFD 25/30/40/50th anniversary i would like to have a video project by Marc Canter which he wanted to see us about 4 years ago already, just like his awesome book it could be a nice compilation of "The Way to Appetite" or "The Early Days" with video and audio clips from his master videos, soundboards etc.
unless there would be high quality new transfers from the original master AFD tracks and released as 24bit/96khz or so......i think AFD itself seriously doesnt need any re-mastering, its awesome as it is, just get the MFSL or the 1st japanese pressings and thats the best sound. add that re-masters are often not done properly qualitywise ("loudness war").
a really nice way would be to let the fans decide something like that, f.e. what shows, appearances, demos would be on a proper list to release - i think U2 did that with some older live show or so? but as it looks like Axl hardly will ever be up for dealing with the AFD/UYI line-ups again....its very unlikely to see something like this officially released from that era ever. those fans had to experience this the hard way and will have to suffer on. keep in mind they have recorded every UYI show as Proshot and soundboard. the vaults must be huge, just to see some list of it (exspec. the AFD days) would be awesome!!

Didn't that turn into the reason why Axl and Duff sued Axl? They knew that Axl licensing re-recorded versions of GNR songs meant he owned the masters and would be getting a huge chunk of the money. It was also because they weren't involved in making the decision as a collective on where the songs could be used.

Axl re-recorded most of AFD for this reason. I have no idea what happens in the case of cover songs, I think the band is powerless on that one. They just go to Universal and the songwriter to get the approval. If Universal feels like using Knocking on Heavens Door, Live and Let Die, or anything off of The Spaghetti Incident, GNR can't do anything about it.

Post-"Wrestler", a lot more GNR songs have shown up in movies.

You say Chinese Democracy reissue on vinyl, I say vinyl and Blu Ray, but that sucker in HD and surround and a "making of" documentary, and a 1 hour concert of all the songs played live back to back. It's more for collectors but could be something sold just at the shows as a "tour edition" and later on, exclusively through the website. Then you would see prices on Amazon going for it really high, because those are copies people bought and reselling.

The only reason to remaster is because the band doesn't like how some of it sounds. When CDs first came out, a lot of master tapes were lost or misplaced. Over time, they've found them and it's just a small handful of bands where it made any real difference. I think the mono reissues for some bands were way long overdue though.

Most "remasters" have been gimmicks to get fans to buy it over again...before the internet, they could get away with it. Now, people will wait to see if it's worth buying.   

They might have the "if it ain't broke" attitude about it. It wasn't like Exile on Main St, where there was a deadline and the producer was as stoned as Keith Richards, and Jagger had to handle putting it together. He did little to the reissue, but anyone who had the Virgin reissue from '94, he improved 3 or 4 songs, and there's still some better sounding songs on the 94 version.

Blu Ray has slowly been creeping into the audiophile world, to me, it would make sense to do a remaster that'll wind up on that format, and there's plenty of room for videos, live performances, documentaries, digital copies, etc.

Viacom owns the Ritz footage. You can request VH1 Classic to reair it, or Palladia. It would have to be a company like Rhino or Eagle Rock that has deals with the big companies to release it on DVD. The unedited copy that made the bootleg rounds, would love to know how that got out there, but as it was shot on videotape, it's just like the master tapes, if they weren't protected properly, who knows what condition they're in. Any footage shot on film prob. looks great, and I'm sure there's people sitting on videotapes at home that haven't gotten around to transferring it to You Tube.

Coming into a thread titled "AFD 25th Anniversary topic and possible re-release?",  then not even referencing the old album, but instead promoting your own agenda and attempting to divert the discussion into one about Chi Dem, and/or vinyl quality. Nothing to do with anything mentioned in the OP.   Is this not the sort of behavior you condemn when applied vice versa?, what makes this so special, your off topic rambling valid here?, apart from your status as judge and jury, when you tolerate nil of it in reverse.  And I wondered why people said the things they do about you Jarmo!  Great example of a double standard at work,  do as I say, not as I do! 

On topic, a re-release with promo packaging etc would be very cool, though they could never match the extravagance of U2's output, and although no re-recording could ever be a good thing,  remastering, and releasing it with the intended artwork would at least be a good first step, maybe then some of the fans that have jumped on board for and since ChiDem, would gain a bit more understanding of where this band came from to begin with...

The AFD 25th anniversary could be celebrated with re-releasing Chinese Democracy properly. :)
Because it never was!


And after that, if there's interest, go back and look at the older catalog.


Happy now?



/jarmo

The demand for a Chinese Democracy reissue or Deluxe edition would have to be in countries where the album sold well and where they pack arenas (you prob. have a good idea which countries), and the only way to get it in the US would be through the GNR website.

I would love the Nu GN'Rs' version of Appetite For Destruction to be released as a special 25th year anniversary presentation. I think it would be a worlds first, and would definitely be all over the news worldwide.

It won't take nothing away from the original, but would add to it I feel. And how cool would it to be to hear songs such as WTTJ, SCOM, PC, RQ all reworked and totally re-recorded by the Nu GN'R of 2001.

I think it would be brilliant.  :D

I don't trust the record label wants to give Chinese Democracy the issue it deserves.  There probably is more likliehood of an AFD release.  Recall the Greatest Hits fiasco where Axl didn't want it released yet the out it out anyway and the lineup of songs was not ideal.

im absolutly against that someone would remaster afd , lies, uyis, spaghetti thingy or cd(exept jarmo says that it wasent meant so sound like that so i dont really know ). the way they sound are just fine (in most cases perfect)
for other stuff i dont really care

Or just go see them live?

I like AFD ...........but FUCKKKKKKKKK  !!!!

GNR is not that album !!!!!!!!!


Lies was something ahead that era
UYI 1 / 2  ...were awesome ... better than AFD
TSI ----  COOL

CD -------- FUCKIN MAJESTIC !!!

My favorite GNR album

Re-mastering the album would only be to improve the sound on current popular devices and formats (and make more money)...  You'll notice that if you listen to songs that come out now vs. songs that came out 15+ years ago that the newer songs are louder than the older songs...

I don't see why Axl would okay a AFD re-release. He seems to be all about the line up of today and not really enjoying the thought of promoting any of the former members, which it would've.

There is nothing on Universal's database yet. According to the db, AFD was released in the US on July 21, 1987.

According to the database, 2012 official releases so far are, a Roses/Pistols BB Cap on March 2nd (UPC Code - 671734200280)

==  and ==

A re-release of Use Your Illusion 1 and 2,  2 x LP Vinyl (for both) explicit versions on Jun 5th (UPC 720642441510 for UYI 1, and UPC 720642442012 for UYI 2)

And that be it for now.

"According to the database, 2012 official releases so far are, a Roses/Pistols BB Cap on March 2nd (UPC Code - 671734200280)"

A baseball hat?

The only reason to remaster old recordings is because the technology's improved the recordings, or there's a higher quality format. It's hard to say whether or not Blu Ray is going to be where you'd hear a remastered AFD or people will just download the songs from online, or you just order it up in Pandora, Spotify, or SoundCloud.

You could prob. get Slash, Duff, and Steven to answer "if it was up to you, would you remaster Appetite in a high def format, is there anything in the back catalog you'd want to fix?", and try to get Axl when he's answering questions again. It's a legit question.

I would love for all GNR albums to be remastered. Listen to the remastered Doors, Beatles, Rolling Stones, CCR, etc. So much clearer and better sounding now. All the new Pink Floyd Immersion Box Sets are just awesome beyond words thanks to the remastering and bonus tracks. GNR deserves the same. Hearing more detail and improving the sound quality would be a HUGE treat. Bring it!!

AFD re-release? Hell yeah! Make it a double. A re-mastered original, and the re-recording they did in the 90's (?). THAT would have been some candy :beer:

I presume so. The database lists merchandise too.

 Nothing can stop Axl right now from using those songs, or any re-recordings as part of a greatest hits on another label. At that time, he might have also done it in case he had a falling out with Geffen. There's valid reasons to have done it, and pure monetary reasons why he did it. I don't know if part of the lawsuit was that Axl couldn't use those songs, but I don't see how they could do that.

Maybe when it comes to licensing songs out to movies? They heard about Big Daddy, but I thought that was a live version. And in the case of Glee or Greatest Hits, Axl does  need Slash, Duff, and Izzy at times when they don't want songs used. Universal has a stake in those songs, so a movie producer's song guy is going to use what Universal owns.

Would love to know the difference between what Darren Aranofsky had to pay vs what the guy who made Megamind had to pay. Licensing songs usually goes for 6 figures for the film, and a separate deal made on the soundtrack. 

I'm sure Sandler go the Aronofsky price. Same with James Cameron. Clint Eastwood prob. got it for really cheap because the band was still new, and the song was featured as part of the story. Great exposure for them.

VR was free to record GNR songs, they could have done the whole catalog with Scott, they just couldn't call it GNR.

Axl could re-record the whole catalog as GNR and put that out on Amazon & iTunes, but prob. can't use the same artwork. I think he'd have to put some sort of "new" version on there.

At first, fans would buy the new versions, over time, they'd revert to the original version.

According to Mickey Rourke, during his Golden Globes acceptance speech in 2009, he thanked Axl for letting them use the song for free.



/jarmo

Axl and Slash contributed in their own ways to it. I'm sure it helped with both of them being involved. Not sure if it was free or for very little money, because the film was released by Fox. There's a LOT of money in licensing songs to movies, Dee Snider's making a killing this year off of "We're Not Gonna Take It", he gave it to Wal Mart, it's on the Betty White "Off Their Rockers" and in the "Rock Of Ages" film (on top of it still playing on Broadway). Easily a few million.

The guy who took over The Beatles catalog has been approving the original songs in movies, and that hasn't happened since the 1970s.

Sometimes a movie is that so good that you don't care about money. And that movie is damn good.

No money was made. Not hard to understand.


http://jhakaasyabakwaas.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/the-wrestler/ (http://jhakaasyabakwaas.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/the-wrestler/)

Just found this. Is this real thing?

http://www.bravewords.com/news/184768

"Universal Music Canada has announced GUNS N' ROSES Limited Edition 25th Anniversary Commemorative Fan Pack which includes the band's groundbreaking debut, Appetite For Destruction, Welcome To The Videos DVD and a limited edition belt buckle. The Canadian exclusive due June 26th features the following tracklistings. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUNS_N%27_ROSES_Limited_Edition_25th_Anniversary_Commemorative_Fan_Pack

It looks like it, although it says it's exclusive to Canada.

http://www.bravewords.com/news/184768

Because in those days they cared about dynamics. Dynamics were preserved on ChinDem so plz don't go and crush them on previous albums.

Don't see anything like that happening at all...

Axl seems to want more distance from what the classic line up was,  i think that was clear with the Hall of Fame incident.

He wants nothing to do with the old band, and he certainly doesn't want to promote the classic line up even further.

Furthermore... im sure Axl would never do something that would offer any kind of pay or royalties to the old band members.

With that said... i don't think there's gonna be any kind of re-release unless the label obligates Axl into doing it, which seems unlikely as well, since that would put the label in a dodgy position with Axl, and would risk any prospects on a future new album.

Little better, at least you mentioned AFD this time around!, but still touting a shocking plan of attack!.  Comparing album sales and subsequent tour attendances, I would surmise they'd be better off re-releasing AFD first, remastered, redesigned, original art, anything but re-recorded! Something to try and attract the masses that were once fans, then using the interest generated by that to try and steer some folk towards the newer music that is Chinese Democracy, and anything this current line-up eventually releases?..  Not many people cared about Chi Dem by the time it was eventually released, do you seriously think many would buy it again, just to hear it without the "inner groove distortion" or do you assume it would attract new listeners, that ignored it the first time around? 

If only more people realized and accepted this band for what it is, just music.  No matter when, who, how, what was released, it was by Guns n' Roses. Certain people need to accept they'd have got nowhere without the AFD lineup doing what they did when they did, and the same goes for the UYI's.  If credit needs to be given to Tracii, Ole, Slash, Paul, Tracy and Roberta,  etc,  then so be it, if any of these people stand to make more royalties from a re-release, then so be it, they deserve it for what they did at the time.  Hopefully, this would also have the effect of increasing interest in the current band, and any future output.  Sure, it's nice to have new fans getting on  board still, but how big is the audience they had but lost through the nineties in comparison?...

To suggest re-releasing a album that officially dropped onto shelves just under 4 years ago, as a way of celebrating the much lauded, classic, must have album that is Appetite For Destruction, especially when all they have in common is the same vocalist and business name, is just ludicrous. and for this suggestion to be coming from someone in such a position, Hmmm...Well.

some people still don't understand that Axl has no interest, to say it politically correctly, of allowing,
promoting, encouraging material with Slash on it. no re-release of older albums, no live, DVDs
books or anything  concerning the classic line-up.

yep, although it is a bit sad, I don't see Axl doing anything at this point that would generate income for Slash. Battle lines have been clearly drawn. Sorry, Jester, but it ain't gonna happen.

Guns N' Roses (facebook)
Always hungry for somethin' that released 25 years ago.

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/479787_10151047749498069_1019504932_n.jpg)



Happy b-day Appetite! 
:smoking: :beer:

Yes, for sure. Chinese desperately needs a proper vinyl pressing as well as a CD release with an approved booklet. I'd love bonus stuff as well, but an LP version w/o the inner groove distortion and a CD version with either the hand booklet or grenade booklet would be great.

I'd love by way of celebrating, for Guns to release an anthology.  Super deluxe versions of all studio albums, Blu-Ray's of select shows through the years and any other goodies relevant to the albums creations etc.  : ok:

I would be just happy with an AFD 180gram vinyl release with the original censored artwork.

Anyone tried the new Use Your Illusions vinyl releases? are they sounding significantly better than the normal version.

I would like whoever makes these decisions to leave well alone, appetite has been in my life for 25 years, first bought on cassette, then 12" vinyl original artwork from a record dealer, then upgraded again when cd's were common.
Any reissue seems pointless IMO the band has moved on, music has changed and although the songs still sound as great now as they ever have, it's time to stop delving in the past and start focusing on new material.

i pretty sure that there is a vinyl reissue with the original artwork. not sure about the weight.

Yes, I bought both of them last week at my local record shop. They sound great. I assume they are from the same source as the 2008 Euro "Back to Black" releases? When Chinese was released, Appetite and both Illusions got vinyl reissues as part of the Back to Black campaign, but here in the US, only Appetite got released. So these 2012 Illusion records might just be to make up for us not getting the 2008 pressing.

I think at the 30 year mark, the artist or artists gets master tape ownership. Wait 5 more years, maybe something will happen.



 


 

Axl supposedly has no interest in promoting the old band, and yet, has been touring for the last ten years with concerts whose setlists are composed primarily of songs written by the older bands. In contrast, his effort to promote the new band has only resulted in the release of 72 minutes of material composed by the newer bands.

For someone who speaks so strongly of wanting to move on from the past, and focus on developing and promoting the new GNR, the man surely keeps hitting us hard over the head with old material and puts little effort into promoting the new band as anything other than a cover band (is 72 minutes in ten years the best effort in promoting the new band as a viable new chapter in GNR history rather than a cover band of GNR history?)

I write this as a huge fan of the new band, as I love Chinese Democracy and believe that the songwriters involved in GNR over the past 10 years are brilliant and have the potential to produce truly magnificent work. I'm just dissapointed that the new result of 10 years of work to get the new GNR off the ground is one album and 10 years worth of tours that haven't moved past the heavy use of AFD and UYI songs.  It just doesn't seem to be a great strategy of getting people to realize that GNR has a history past 1992....

Axl contributed more to songwriting during the classic era than any other member. Slash himself determined that Axl had written 41% of Appetite.

So why should Axl have to stop playing songs from the band's past when he was the main songwriter during every era of the band?

to further avoid anything Slash related  ;)

Not saying he should stop playing them.... Just saying it doesn't seem to me to be the best way of going about moving on from the past and promoting the new band(s). And my point wasn't as much about playing the old songs over the last ten years as much as it was about them not releasing more than 72 minutes of new music in the past decade. How can the public get over the old band when the new band hasn't done much other than playing the old music? 80% of all recorded GNR music is from the old band... Of course the public focuses on them when thinking of GNR... The only way to get around that, as it seems to me, would be to put out much more new music to give te public something other to consider when discussing GNR....

Perhaps Axl's desire to move on from who he used to play with is separate from what he used to play with them.

Congratulations GN'R

 :beer:

Congrats GN'R!


Just to clarify to those who are easily confused.  :P

Leaving the past behind and focusing on the present and future, doesn't mean you need to deny the people who go see your shows (the fans) something that they obviously have come to love and enjoy hearing. Why wouldn't GN'R play GN'R songs? It's not promoting anything other than GN'R.

Only people with some kind of agendas think the band shouldn't play those songs because "they promote the old band".

In reality, they only promote the band playing the fuck out of those songs every time they play them. That's all.  ;D




/jarmo

Seen this on GN'R's facebook yesterday and hadn't seen it on here yet.

"The Most Important Album of the Last 25 Years Isn't Nevermind, It's Guns N' Roses' Appetite For Destruction" Thanks LA Weekly read it all here:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2012/07/guns_n_roses_appetite_for_destruction_25th_anniversary.php

Wow... You're quite a condescending individual, aren't you?

I wasn't saying that they shouldn't play the old songs and I certainly have no agenda. I love going to their shows and seeing the old songs played. All I'm saying is that whenever non diehards go and see GNR and hear old songs, it promotes to some degree the old band. It doesn't push for these fans to care about the future of GNR, but it rather just makes them nostalgic for what has been. Whether that's good or bad, i don't know. It certainly has proven to be financially lucrative. But is it In line with the goal of pushing forward when most of your behavior is repeating the past?

And let's not get confused either. If it was all about not denying fans what they want to see, we would be seeing the old GNR touring the world right now. But, axl has more artistic integrity than making decisions solely based on popular demand.

But, my main point wasnt so much criticizing playing old songs as much as it about arguing that 72 minutes of music in 10 years is not the strongest effort in promoting GNR as a currently relevant band, musically rather than nostagalically. All I'm saying is that the best way to promote the new band is to release and perform more music written by the new band rather than the legacy of he new band being an overqualified cover band. That's all

Not really.

Are you easily upset?







There's your agenda.

It seems like you want it to be like that. You want to think it promotes the old band when in reality it doesn't.

Was this an issue in 1992 without Izzy and Steven in the band? Every time they played Sweet Child O' Mine they were promoting the old(er) band?

Of course not!



Are you saying the Rolling Stones are promoting the 1960s era of said band when they play songs recorded back then?





They've toured around the globe since December 2009.

Who does that promote? GN'R today!

Has nothing to do with the old band. You're just trying to use the band's amazing live shows and twist it into being something negative.



/jarmo

A very good point that seems to be always ignored.

Ali

Jarmo, not everybody has an "agenda". Sometimes it's just thinking about this and that and coming up with valid questions. People do such things and especially on message boards and sometimes it's really just that. Excanging thoughts and ideas.

Axl will always have to let himself and the new players be compared to the old, 'nostalgic', version of GNR with Slash and Duff - no matter how much new music he will release. It will always have to compete. And so will the live shows. And I think he knows this. The fact that he is giving one interview per year, releases no videos and/or DVD's and not even professional group photos does not necessarily help in the way of promoting the new band. Although it can be viewed as pretty 'rock n'roll' to go against standards of what everyone else does. If that's smart? I don't know. I guess as long as you can afford it, it's something you can do.

In 1992 with Izzy and Steven it was no issue because the hard core of the group, as understood by the broad public, was Axl, Slash and Duff. They called the shots and those where the faces people had in mind when thinking of GNR. They could've added as many musicians as they liked (which they actually did) and nobody would care too much because people had the impression that those three guys where the essential Guns N' Roses. Same goes for the Stones...Jagger, Richards and Watts have always been there (with Jagger and Richards calling most of the shots) and are still to this day. Hell, even if they have a 'new' bass player for 20 years by now and nobody knows his name, nobody is asking the bands integrity because the "essential Stones" are still there. I mean...ask any guy on the street. No one will be able to come up with any name of any member playing in GNR right now, not even Dizzy Reed, beside Axl. Good thing? Maybe not. But are there ways to promote the news band with more than playing live? Maybe yes.

GNR would only be in competition with old GNR if old GNR still existed. It does not. People can either choose to go and enjoy GNR or they can choose to stay home. Plenty of people choose to attend and have a good time. The closest thing to "competition" would perhaps be the touring acts of former members, but GNR is more successful than all of the former members combined. The classic era was a great time, but nothing lasts forever. People come and go. It's part of being in a band.

Nobody was complaining when old GNR would play songs that existed before the members you mentioned had joined the band. Early GNR songs as well as repurposed Hollywood Rose songs were still played once those people joined, even though they had not been around for their creation.

Axl and Izzy founded GNR and together they wrote the vast majority of the songs. I see no reason for an Axl led GNR to not play any material from any era he was involved with (which happens to be the entire history of the band). Izzy doesn't seem much interested in the limelight or touring on a regular basis, but he still pops up from time to time and has clearly given his stamp of approval in regards to his childhood friend continuing the band they started together.

No. The "old-GNR" band set a certain par that other incarnations of the same band have to compete with. You can't argue with that. It's like a sports-team. Everyone is comparing the new Dream Team (US-basketball Olympic team) with the the 1992 version of the same team with the same name. Undoubtely the 1992 Dream Team has set a par that every other team with the same name will be compared with. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just the way people think. This has nothing to do with GNR having to compete against other bands (including bands of ex-bandmembers) but competing against the standard set by themselves.

I know that Axl and Izzy founded GNR but...and I already mentioned that: It's not what the public has a great interest in because most non-die hard fans refer to Axl, Slash and Duff as being the defining/most important (ex-)bandmembers.

People "complaining" about the band not promoting themselves...

The band tours around the world playing in front of thousands of people each night.

So what do people "complain" about, or let's say comment on, next?

That the band is promoting the old band!


You can say it's not an agenda, or whatever you wanna call it.

I find it somewhat amusing that certain people need to twist everything. You have to find something bad in everything.


The band has worked hard to get where they are. The recent tours have been successful and what do you focus on? The old band.

WTF.





/jarmo

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band. What was being thrown around in the last couple of posts was the question what has been done and could be done in order to promote the new guys in the band a little better because they will always be compared to the players who where in the band before 1994. Taking some photos of the new guys and posting them on a fansite does the job for the fan who comes here even if GNR is doing nothing over a couple of years. It will certainly not talk to everyone else not being able/willing/interested/curious enough to find out about the new guys. And take it for what it is: That might be the majority of people coming to the shows who have the old band in mind and go to the show to see Axl Rose.

That's also not about "twisting" reality or "whining" or "complaining". It's called "common sense".

"That might be the majority of people coming to the shows who have the old band in mind and go to the show to see Axl Rose"


DOK, i agree 100 percent

Looks like someone did:








/jarmo

I love how certain people complain about threads going off topic yet when they do it it's ok. Let's celebrate the 25th anniversary of one of the most infuential albums of all time. On a personal level this album made me want to become a musician. The crunching guitars, the attitude and the honest lyrics made them stand out from everything else that was out there. Unlike other posers these 5 guys were the real deal. 5 bad asses who created one of the greatest albums of all time. Only these five guys who shared all of these experiences together could've made this album. Thats what makes it honest. Thats what makes it great.

Maybe what I meant was that even if playing Old material doesn't promote the old band, I'm not sure it's the best way to promote the fact that GNR is still an active band (other than a nostalgic touring act... Ala journey or motley crues or poisons, or kiss's or rolling stones successful tours). It's not twisting the tours to be anything negative, as i went to all 3 ny shows recently and had a fucking blast each night. It's more of thoughts on future directions to promote GNR today as a relevant songwriting based (as opposed to just performance based) band. I think the larger public that doesnt know any better (the laymans fan) sees GNR today as just Axl and hired guns performing their greatest hits. If that was true, there is nothing wrong with that, as that has value in it's own right, because it's really fun to experience live. But, we as the diehard fans know better, and in order to demonstrate this to the larger public, releasing more than one album in 10 years would go a long way in that effort.

But, this is only written assuming Axls main goal is to promote this version of the band as a viable songwriting unit rather than a spectacular supporting touring cast. If it's not Axls goal, then what I'm thinking doesn't matter much.

And that's all I have to say about that. All this is written from the perspective of having a ton of respect for the current band and just wishing, as a fan, to hear more of what they have from a songwriting perspective. If that's an agenda, so be it, but it's coming from a genuine place as a fan of this band. What I feel is happening is misunderstanding a desire to hear new music from your favorite band.

And maybe there is a distinction between promoting "the old band" as (1) the material they wrote together and (2) them as individuals. When I previously said promoting the old band, I meant it most closely with the first interpretation of the term. I feel the tours have strongly promoted GNR as a band that relies on past songwriting accomplishments made by the older versions of the band for success (ala motley Cr?e, rolling stones, Metallica) more than on more current songwriting accomplishments (as a consequence of the low degree of recording output made the new band). I don't mean it in a negative way, but simply as an observation. It doesn't take away the fact the current GNR live performances are among todays best. No one can question the reputation of GNR as a successful touring band in terms of quality performance and financial earnings.

Well said! I agree with your sentiments 100%

You Listen:

INSANE IN THE BRAIN - Cypress Hill

 :peace:

Yeah, sure. Someone did.
 ...  ::)

What's the problem Dok? Just pointing out that your assumption that no one did was wrong.


Now, if the person meant something else, there's always ways to clarify.







Well you can always say that.

GN'R could release multiple studio albums and not play anything pre-Chinese, and some would be upset.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was be a shit storm about how Axl is disrespecting the band's history by not playing the old songs, or acting like the past never existed.


Also, playing live is a great way to promote the band. In an age where music videos and radio has lost their meaning, playing live is an experience that can't be copied and experienced at your computer.




Anyway, there's no re-release in sight... The record company has kept re-releasing the album for years now in various formats.




/jarmo

no re-release in sight? good...I prefer they focus on the new album, now that the tour is over

No, at least I haven't seen any re-releases on Amazon's upcoming releases...




/jarmo

Just want to sort of chime in on something:

EVERY noteable band with a decent sized back catalog plays stuff off their old albums.  Green day is still playing stuff off Dookie, Metallica is still playing stuff off of Metallica (aka The black album) AND Ride the Lightning, Aerosmith (when they tour) is still playing stuff off Toys in the Attic (and Permanent Vactation), Bon Jovi is still playing stuff off of Slippery When Wet, and Def Leppard is still doing material off of Pyromania.  These are all bands that have released a pretty decent amount of material AFTER those albums were released...but, live, they're still doing material off those albums. If you want more modern examples, take Nickelback (PLEASE!), The Black Keys, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters, Godsmack, Shinedown....they all play plenty of stuff from their back catalogs at live shows.

Why? Because that material still resonates, and is popular, with their fans.

The disconnect here seems to be that some people want to split "old" GnR from "new" Gnr.  That's not right.  GnR is GnR is GnR.  They're playing off their back catalog, no matter who happened to be band members at the time of the creation of that material. 

Personally, I don't see the problem with it.  And, quite frankly, I don't get why GnR should be held to a different standard than any other band who's had significant, long lasting, success.  I  certainly don't think membership turnover is justification to do it.

What exactly would be on a re-release? I'm not privy to what demos or AFD live recordings that would go on there

Yeah, the truth is no matter who was in the band, there would be a demand to hear songs from the back catalog.  Simply put, the average audience member going to a GN'R show will want to hear WTTJ, SCOM, PC, NR, etc. irrespective of who is in the band.

Ali

I think it's great that GNR plays a good mix of songs from all three of their main eras. Plenty of songs from Appetite, plenty from Illusions and plenty from Chinese. Sure there are some fans who are primarily interested in older material, but I think the band has found a good balance.

Part of how they've managed to do so though is by making the show LONGER. They've added Chinese and Illusions songs in recent years without removing many Appetite songs, if any. I don't see how anybody could complain about this.

The bottom line is that there are some former fans who will complain no matter what GNR does unless their favorite ex-members rejoin. The whining about various absurd topics is just a charade. These people are not fans anymore and want to drag the band down.

Those people you described certainly exist, but I think the main argument that was posed here was more about the lack of new material from the new era.

Although people would certainly find something to complain about even if they had released 2 more albums by now, but I think that would soften the blow a little bit.  I agree they shouldn't eliminate the AFD songs and I love how they've added some Illusions songs.  But I'm with everyone else who would love to hear something new from this lineup.  They seem to be firing on all cylinders in a live setting.  I'd love to see how that would translate into the studio.

I don't see any sort of re-release happening until Axl has master tape ownership and can put it out on his own, and can pick what company to distribute it through. If Axl is still trying to figure out what to do with the backlog of songs he has, I don't see AFD as a priority for him, something he might do when he either can't sing or wants to have the story told of that period in his life. If he feels the songs sound fine the way they are, the only remaster project I could see happening is if it had to do with bands putting songs out on Blu Ray audio, and put it out as a box set of concert videos, TV appearances, interviews and music videos from that time.

I think he's done with Geffen anyway. Why make them money when he can wait a few years and have ownership of the tapes? He's in the same boat as Prince, his management's kept in-house, and they don't have to spend tons of cash on concert announcements. That's what social media's for and the forums.