Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I love GNR, new old and in between whatever.  I love Slash even if I think he's a bit of a sellout, slightly fake, and much too willing to let the folks believe him as blameless in the whole breakup (harder to live with the truth about you...)  I think the SCOM solo is the greatest ever and the next 4 or 5 belong to him as well.  But I know NOTHING about playing the guitar.  My question(s) is this.  Are Slash's masterpieces considered to be DIFFICULT which would suggest an exceptional ability, or are they just awesome SOUNDING making Slash an excellent music writer?  Or both?  I mean, what is most pleasing to my ear isn't necessarily more difficult to play right?  In my totally UNeducated opinion Buckethead is the superior player even though Slash is responsible for the very music I most enjoy listening to.  But for all I know Slash is equally or more adept than Buckethead.

Buckethead is more technically gifted.  Even Slash has admitted that.  But then again Slash has wrote some of the greatest riffs and solo's of all time.  I guess thats the most important thing right? 

I guess Its like having a sports team that play amazing but don't always win trophies.  Its hard to explain but I personally prefer Slash although Bucket is a great player too.

Slash is a great writer, but not necessarily a great player.

Ultimately music should be about how it makes the listener(s) feel rather than how difficult the piece of music is to play and/or write.  Both Slash and Buckethead do a great job of coming up with really evocative music, so from that standpoint, I would say they are exceptional, yes.  With that said, I think there are guitarists, like say Steve Vai, who are exceptional players but who don't make exceptional music (of course, I can only comment on how things sound to my ears).

I think people often mistake skill as talent. This conversation has been had many times, but anyone with hands who puts in the time can learn to play the guitar.
You can put in all the time in the world, and you are not necessarily going to become a good writer.
There is a countless amount of guitarists that can play faster than Slash, and they will die without us ever hearing a note of their music.

Buckethead is a very skilled guitarist. I enjoy some of his music, but I don't see any of his work showing up on the most memorable solos of all time.
Not that he is necessarily trying. He's got his own thing going, and it's not as accessible as rock n roll.

Point is, I hear a lot about how much better a guitarist Buckethead, Bumblefoot, Ashba etc are than Slash, but most people never heard of them until they joined Guns N' Roses, and even then, most people have still never heard of them!


I think the "whore for the limelight" thing is drinking too much of the Axl kool-aid.
Since leaving Guns N' Roses, he has been very productive, and I'm not really sure how to find fault with that if you are a fan of his playing.
Seems a lot of people would rather he had just disappeared of the face of the earth, but that's not for everybody.

I think Slash is anything but overrated. Just like in my opinion that Axl is the last great frontman, Slash is the last true guitar hero(for lack of a better word).
He is in the discussion with greats like Page, Perry, Taylor etc, and he is still producing quality music.
That is unfortunately extremely rare today.

My favorite work is what he has done with GN'R, but if you listen to his work since, he hasn't lost anything.
The Snakepit albums suffered because of the ineptitude of the lead singers. There were some really strong ideas and playing.
Songs like Beggars and Hangers On and Serial are great, and are probably epics with Axl fronting them.

2 extremely successful bands, and a successful solo album that came out during a time where rock music is on life support.
Guitarists don't often have successful solo albums.

Axl might not be the most technically proficient pianist, but I'm not sure there is anyone I'd rather hear play.
Original GN'R wasn't a classically trained orchestra. They were a collection of talent that complemented each other perfectly.
Each one was integral to the bands sound, and I don't think any one member was overrated.

I agree.  He might not have the best chops in the world but I think he has written some of the best music.  Now he is far from a bad guitar player, he is very good, but not on the level of say a Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani or Buckethead. 

I am a huge fan of playing ability, but that only comes second to the songwriting as far as Im concerned.  Whats the point in listening to an amazing player who's songs you don't like? 

For example, Tom Delonge and Billie Joe Armstrong are two of my favorite guitarists and they are not exactly great guitar players, but their riffs are better than anything Joe Satriani or Yngwie Malmsteen has done as far as I'm concerned.

Of course AFD is legendary, but I still maintain his work on the Illusion albums (Estanged!) is just amazing.

Of course he's a great player. Just finished reading Duff's biography, and he says he was blowned away by Slash's guitarskills when he first met him. And still does.

Always a discussion of who's the better guitarist technical. I don't wanna judge/rank the guitarists in Gn'R, but all the leadguitarists since Slash left, is probably at least as good technical. Bumblefoot just blow me away.

I would almost turn your sentence around AR. Slash is a great player, but not necessarily a great songwriter....

If he wasn't a great songwriter, we probably wouldn't be here. I was using the general term when it came to "great". There are many many "great" guitarists out there that I would never ever willingly listen to. They either have no concept on how to write a good piece of music, and just shred away, or they get so pre-occupied with showing off they forget to actually write a song. Some of them actually do both. It's awful. Slash is in no way as good as those guitarists at playing guitar. Nor will he ever be. But this is just fine, considering that it's songwriting that is what's really important... and Slash is undoubtedly one of those. Sometimes he seems to forget this and write some crap, but I don't think any musician - good or bad - writes nothing but great songs. He knows when to hold back and when to let loose... he understands that playing music isn't all about showing off what you do, and that often doing less has much better results. The guitar parts in songs like 'Locomotive', 'Coma' and even the subtle melodies he brought to 'Estranged' are enough to cement him as a great songwriter.

When Slash has a great producer, and is focused (solo album), he is as good as anyone out there.

Agree his guitarwork's fantastic. But don't think his songs post-Gn'R have shown that he is a great songwriter. He was when he was together with other great ones, but not on his own (as a songwriter). Izzy, Duff and Axl have all shown greatness in the songwriting later on, but not Slash....Guess it's more that he is a great guitarplayer that contributed the epic solos on songs like Estranged etc. than great songwriting. Since the foundation for the song already was made when Slash brought his epic parts to the table. The foundation often was laid by the band together, or by Izzy or Axl. Not Slash by himself. Messy writing, but my conclusion is:

Slash is a great guitarplayer, with a lot of creativity in his head, but that creativity result in GREAT riffs and solos, not great songs in itself.....

I'm not sure I would say any of them have proven to be great songwriters outside of GN'R.
I think in general, the AFD/UYI is all of the alumni's best work by far.
I don't think any of them have flirted with that creative output since, but Axl and Slash have come the closest.

Musically I think Velvet Revolver was a solid band, but I can't imagine any of their songs on Use Your Illusion for instance.
Obviously not fair, as it's a different band, and they were never intended to be compared, but they just aren't of the same caliber creatively.

Same with Slash's solo record, Chinese Democracy and all of Izzy's solo work.
Izzy has been the most consistent. Maybe almost to a fault. His records have seemed to become more repetitive as of late.
I think it's clear that he brought the majority of the structure to classic Guns. He's solid all the way around, but alone is not a great lyricist.

Duff hasn't really shown me much individually since his Thunders Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory, which was supposed to be on his solo album. I never really got into his solo work or Loaded, but I don't underestimate for a second his contributions to GN'R or VR.

I never looked at Slash's role as helping in the lyric department, but I'm not sure what he has contributed overall.
Musically we know that he brought a memorable solo that seemed to fit perfectly with Axl, Izzy, Duff's lyrics/melodies time and time again, and sometimes vice versa.

Totally subjective, but the only songs that the alumni have created post '93 that remotely sniff the stratosphere of AFD-UYI material are Slash's By the Sword, Axl's Street of Dreams and Catcher in the Rye. In my opinion, Oh My God is the last lyrically great song Axl wrote.

Slash hasn't worked with a lead singer of Axl's caliber since Guns, for more than a song, and his material suffers for it.
As I mentioned, I think Beggars and Hangers On and Serial could have been epics with Axl's input. By the Sword is an epic w/o him.
The fact that Slash wrote/played all the guitars showed me that he's a better songwriter than I had previously thought.

I think all of the alumni's records could have benefited from the other's input.

I would say he's a decent writter (I'd say he's a fabulous writter if he had followed the same high quality line of Guns in his solo projects, but he sucked in all of them, so I let myself doubt about his writting skills, at least in Axl Rose's abscense...) and that he's a very good player (not ''exceptional'', though).

What makes Slash huge, an enormous rock icon, are his performing skills. He's a beast onstage, and there's the place where he makes the difference.

I think Slash is great at coming up with a good riff and, more prominently perhaps, a great lead guitar part.  I think he's a great player, although not perhaps the most technically skilled.  I don't think Slash is the best songwriter, though.  A riff is the basis of many a song, but not necessarily the whole song by any means.  Therefore, I think the best songwriters in GN'R ever have been Axl and Izzy.

Ali

yeah Slash is a great at writing guitar parts, thats what I meant by a great songwriter.  Izzy WAS a great songwriter in Guns, but everything he has done since then is atrocious,  ifyou listen to any of his solo albums you would never guess he was the same guy who  wrote some of those GNR classics.  He is one example of a guy whos talents worked better in a group setting.

As far as the thread's topic is concerned, I really don't care how "technically" gifted Slash is.  I never did.  The words technically proficient are overrated.  What matters is that Slash wrote, recorded, and performed some of the most beautiful and memorable riffs that have lingered and will continue to linger in the mind's ear for all time.  For that reason alone, Slash IS exceptional.


Yeah, but I think the same holds true for all the original GNR members.  Look at anything and everything that Slash, Steven, Izzy, Duff, and Axl have done since Appetite for Destruction -- separately or together -- and you don't see the same cohesion or quality that you had when they were together.

Read Duff's book, and you'll see he mentions that Izzy was a great songwriter to bounce ideas off of.  He says the same thing about Steven Adler.  Duff or Steven could come up with a rhythmic groove, and then bounce it off of each other and make it great.

In other words, you had five guys with parts of songs that just happened to mesh very well with one another, and that's what created Guns N Roses.

When i heard that boot of Estranged on this tour.... It made me realize once again how extraordinary Slash truly is.. Those solos in estranged are greatest of all time level.

I agree 100%.  I've always felt they were the best guitar solos I've ever heard in my life.  I also think it's interesting (fitting) that even though Axl has a different guitar player now, we still think of Slash when we hear them.  I think "Estranged" in particular will always be painted with very strong Slash colors, regardless of who plays it.

Slash is such a special player and forever in rock history will be mentioned with guys like Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhodes, Angus Young..... 

I love Jimmy Page and Joe Perry, but Slash is more technical than them, and they are legends, but awesome song writers too...

The solos in:
PC
SCOM
Night Train
NR
Estranged
Civil War
Don't Damn Me
Locomotive
Patience
Rocket Queen

are all to die for.  Awesome fucking solos that you memorize every note.  His live performances just ooze passion, the kind of passion that at times reminds me of the late great Gary Moore or David Gilmore. 

Yes, Slash is among the all time elite, and didn't have to have the chops of YJM or Uli J Roth to get there...  His music just speaks to us.

I think Slash is one of those rare guitarists that can balance technique and melody to produce an almost perfect mix which makes him a near perfect guitar player.

to preface this with ive never bought into the whole 'technique vs creativity' argument - they're not mutually exclusive - but with that said. take a dude like steve vai - he is a very melodic player, i would never accuse him of being all technique - but he is way more technical than slash. But a ley person would hear slashs solo and love them more - i think, simply, because he strikes that balance better.

for me, slash is the perfect guitar player.

Even his solo in KOHD and kind of a throw away song like So Fine are awesome also.


Don't forget his monsters on Coma.

Most guitar solos are to show off and fill space.. Seriously, Joe Perry is a boring solo guy... His solos on Aerosmith songs feel like they take an hour to get over with.
Slash's u memorize the melodies just like u would the lyrics and vocals.


I tell this story all the time as an example of Slash's brilliance. I worked at a health food store filled with nothing but other musicians

November Rain came on the overhead radio thing as we were working, all day long,what was stuck in people's heads, was the last guitar solo.. so all day everybody is humming it and not singing the song.. I thought, WOW, this wouldn't happen with any other guitar player.

I personally prefer Buckets solo in TWAT over any GNR solo from any player.

That solo is wayyyyyy overrated

Doesn't crack the GNR top 10.

U can compare it to the NFL. Devin Hester may be the fastest player in the NFL but he isn't a top 30 Wide Receiver.

Speed, technical ability means shit in rock n roll.  Technically, Adam Lambert is a better vocalist than Steven Tyler.. but would anybody EVER say he is anywhere close to Tyler? of course not.

Im not denying Slash wrote some of the greatest solos ever. I love SCOM, Nightrain obviously, but TWAT is my favorite. It has an epic sound to it. I think if Nottingham Lace had Axl's vocals over it, it would make a great GNR song. Could Bucket write SCOM, I don't know but the TWAT is my fav

Don't get me wrong, u are entitled to ur opinion. I use to have TWAT very high also... listened a couple times yesterday... and I don't think it holds up or is quite as spectacular as people have built it up to be. I also listened after listening to UYI 1 and 2 back to back...

Wow, thanks everybody.  Great to get so much input on something I've often wondered about.  Put all the comments together and I came to the following conclusion; Slash is a great music writer in so much as he is that SINGLE missing ingredient that makes a good recipe great.  Like Axl Izzy and the rest of the guys created a very good painting and Slash was that brushstroke that made it a masterpiece.  Obviously whatever skill he has is sufficient.   
   All the great replies also confirm something all us fans have known for a long time.  The planets lined up and brought that group of guys together.  If each guy was a spark then combined they were lightning.  Eventually the bottle blew up, but not before the entire world caught one hell of a buzz. 
BTW, I still think Slash has somehow lessened his legacy through overexposure...but then again I whine about not seeing Axl enough.  No wonder those two clashed!

In my opinion Slash is a guitarist whose style is instantly recognizable. Slash actually makes his guitar speak and convey emotion. Not a lot of technically skilled players are able to do that, they sound too clinical, almost robotic.

As far as Slash's writing skills, he's come up with some of the most memorable riffs and solos of rock n' roll history and I think of him as the Keith Richards of the generation, who grew up in the late eighties and early nineties. However, he needs to have other musicians to bounce off ideas with, to really compliment and complete his riffs and make them into great songs. His solo album had some incredible moments on it, but also a bit too much filler material.

I can't say I personally hold the TWAT solo as high as AFD-UYI material, but it is definitely a good one. I think it holds up well.
For me, the beat is what makes the song sound a bit dated. I really like Axl's lyrics overall, but the "the devil hates a loser" line is a doozie.
I thought Bucket really shined on Street of Dreams. Just seemed like he and Axl really clicked on that one. I'm surprised not to hear that song on the radio.

A shitload of CD songs should be on the radio : ok:

What I love about Slash's solos is that you can whistle them and people around will go 'that's that GN'R song right?'.

BUT in my opinion the material on CD is way more challenging and demanding for the listener, and I love that. I think I've listened to the title track a thousand times, and still can't grasp all the little subtilities!!

I listened to snakepit 2 yesterday and guitar wise the song structures are great, you can't fault him for the rest of the band (mainly rod jackson) for not bringing the chops/feel to the rest of the song to make the songwriting exceptional. The part leading from one guitar riff to another is impeccable in most of those songs as well as the solos intermingling with the chord changes of the songs, there is alot of really good stuff going on in that record guitar wise and i hope his next solo album is much like this but with myles uping the ante on the vocals.

In my opinion what seperates slash is one word TONE, i could explain but you all understand already.

Tone is a big part of the whole guitar player thing that is often overlooked and carressing the subtletly of the tone is something that is much harder than a non guitar player would ever understand. Also I like slash's feel drive and energy, his songs pump forward rarely drag along.  I could go on and on about some other stuff but its mostly been covered.

+1 to Bodhi, Tom Delonge while defenitly not the most technically gifted has produced some of my favorite riffs along with my second favorite tone!

Tone is what always drew me to Prince as a guitar player.. he has that special something that makes u just go WOW!

Slash has this incredible depth and warmth to his tone that is 2nd to none. Listen to LA Guns an Tracii Guns tone and then listen to Slash... Or even Finck playing Slash's solos... Its the same notes but it isn't the same "FEEL"

add that Slash's guitar sound is very special, add that his presence (exspec. on stage) is considered to be very cool in the eyes of the main public., add that he did live the hard Rock N Roll style for many years and survived it! combined with some of his outstanding solos/songs he has secured his place in Rock history already years ago.

I'd say Slash is exceptional in the aspect of being a rock icon and creating some of the most amazing riffs and solo's ever. His image, along with his exploits make him truely rock n' roll. But in terms of skills, I don't think he is as exceptional as Buckethead or Ron. But it all depends on what you choose to judge him on.... But in general terms, I think it's obvious that Slash is more exceptional than most standard guitarists out there.

Slash is an amazing player, anyone who says otherwise is a moron. Shredding doesn't equal great in my opinion, or look at how fast I can play my scales. Slash is a composer for the most part. Something most air headed guitarists aren't.