Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Duff McKagan Talks Classic Literature, L.A. Hipsters, and the Death of Punk Rock

March 15, 2011

Marc Spitz: Those who only know you as a famous bass player might assume that you?re not as smart and well read as you actually are. Does that ever present a problem?

Duff McKagan: I could give two shits, to be honest. After getting sober [in the mid-90s], I really started to read and reflect. I read the really great authors. I started playing in punk-rock bands and touring when I was 15, so I missed high school.

What authors were you drawn to?

I played catchup. I read everything by Hemingway, everything by Upton Sinclair, a book on Ernest Shackleton. Ernest Shackleton got stuck at the South Pole in 1913, when the South Pole was like Mars. At the time, I felt like I was on a desolate little island myself, sober and alone in L.A. I didn?t know about A.A. or anything. I was just riding my mountain bike uphill.

You?re writing columns for three different outlets now. How did you forge this second career as a columnist and blogger?

Flash forward to 2003, I started becoming aware of the Internet forums. There was this new Velvet Revolver fan site. We didn?t even have the band name yet. But people could post: ?You guys suck,? or ?You guys should do this.? The names were usually Anonymous. Then I met one of the posters, and he turned out to be a 14-year-old kid. So when I started writing for the Seattle Weekly, I wrote a column about that. I said, ?Papers are going away, so it?s time for us to buck up. If you?re going to write something, post your name. We have to rise to the occasion and carry forth intelligent discourse or we?re gong to be a generation of faceless name callers, and I?m not interested in doing that.? I really pressed people to identify themselves.

And to form a community?

Yeah, my column at the Weekly really turned into that. People have risen up. I got a really great letter from a woman from Seattle living in Egypt about February 11. She wrote very politically, but I was more interested in how much a loaf of bread cost, gas and electricity.

At ESPN, it?s a whole new challenge, but I?m not changing my tune at ESPN. I?m not going to be the jock guy. I write like I write and I question things. I question myself. I like to take the piss out of myself. I?m really not about changing my image. I?m not Cormac McCarthy, but I can get my point across in a thousand words.

I loved the post about being at a show in Silver Lake in L.A. and getting approached by hipster fans who wanted to take a picture with you but didn?t want their friends in the club to see.

Hipsters. I was trying to be funny. I?d been to Silver Lake before, but it was really cute to see people looking at me out of the corner of their eyes. When I went out to my car, a guy came up to me and said, ?Hey, dude, can I get a picture?? I said, ?Why didn?t you ask for a picture inside? You embarrassed?? He said, ?No, man, fucking Appetite was the best!?

You cover a number of genres on the new Loaded record that surprised me, too. You have metal and punk, but a lot of pop as well, ?KROQ songs.? I admit, I was expecting a punk record.

It?s an easy label. With Velvet Revolver, people were always saying, ?You?re the punk influence.? I?ve played in punk bands since I was 15, but then Guns were sort of a mishmash of things. For me, punk rock died in about ?83. Punk rock for me was a long time ago. I saw the Clash in ?79 at the Paramount in Seattle, and it changed my whole life. I saw Iggy [Pop] that same year. Black Flag with Ron Reyes. D.O.A. But to your point, I never set out before a record to say, ?I?m going to try to get this across,? the same way I never outline a column. I just start.

What happened with Jane?s Addiction?

Eric had just left and Perry [Farrell] was pretty crestfallen about the whole situation. He asked me if I could come in and help them write a record. I said we could try, so we went into Perry?s garage. [Original Guns N? Roses drummer] Steven Adler and I used to go watch Jane?s at the Music Machine in L.A. There wasn?t a lot going on in L.A. back then.

Flash forward 25 fucking years, and here I am. I talked to Eric on the phone, and he said, ?You have my blessing. Go.? So I went. I like trying new things and I love Perry. I?ve known the guys for a long time. I tried to do my best to help them out. They?d become my comrades, and Eric?s departure hit them hard. We wrote some really great songs, but when I started recording with Loaded in August, I really discovered I can only do one or the other.

What about Velvet Revolver? Are you still searching for a new lead singer to replace Scott Weiland?

There was a sort-of search going on.

So is the band defunct?

I wouldn?t say that. You never know what?s going to happen. Slash has been on tour and I?m about to start touring. Let?s just say this: for the next five months, I highly doubt that anything will happen, but I could be wrong.

You?re also one of only two original Guns to play with the new lineup [Izzy Stradlin being the other]. How did that happen and what was it like to be back onstage with Axl?

It happened out of the blue. I was in London and Axl and I were in the same hotel. The hotel manager told me that Axl was in the room next to mine, of all the hotels in the world. It was more about us bumping into each other. We?d been through a lot together. We?d had the extraordinary circumstance of being thrown into a fish bowl. As far as the gig, I was really jet-lagged and on Red Bull. From the first song, I thought, I?m going to have to do interviews about this forever. It was the first thing that popped in my head.

People still have enormous affection for the original lineup. What happens when Guns N? Roses gets elected to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Do you foresee everyone being civil, or will it be awkward like Van Halen?s notorious induction?

Velvet Revolver was the band that played instead of [David Lee Roth with] Van Halen. It was really awkward for us, but I don?t know. You just presented me with a lot of ifs. All I know is hopefully I can make the right decision if that comes up. I don?t know what the right thing to do is. I really don?t.

You?ve gotten sober and helped other people get sober. I feel like I have to ask your thoughts on Charlie Sheen. Would you be there for him if he called you in the middle of the night?

Of course. Whether it?s Charlie Sheen or a guy I met at the V.A. hospital, it doesn?t matter. I pick up those phone calls. That?s part of being of service.

He insists he?s fine.

I said I was fine until I ended up at the fucking emergency room. He doesn?t live very far from my house, though, but it only works if you want the help.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2011/03/duff-mckagan-talks-classic-literature-la-hipsters-and-the-death-of-punk-rock.html

What about Velvet Revolver? Are you still searching for a new lead singer to replace Scott Weiland?

There was a sort-of search going on.

So is the band defunct?

I wouldn?t say that. You never know what?s going to happen. Slash has been on tour and I?m about to start touring. Let?s just say this: for the next five months, I highly doubt that anything will happen, but I could be wrong.

Translation; The band has decided to screw around with the fans for 5 more months. Five months from now they will announce that they are close. Six months from now they will announce that they could not decide and the search is still on. :)

but I could be wrong.Translation; This means that Duff is not sure what they decided to do and will have to get back to his VR bandmates. He's thinking maybe they meant 5 years not 5 months. :hihi:

I was thinking that  they're waiting until SLipKnot finishes their tour dates this summer. Then they could possibly make that announcement.

However with Slash wanting to record with his current line-up, I say they're waiting for him to make up his mind on weither on not he wants to continue with VR or not.

How can Charlie Sheen live not far from Duff's house? I thought Duff lived in Seattle.

Anyhow if Slash makes an album with his current band and then tours for it, I'd say that will last through this time nest year and maybe even into the summer.

Yeah, it seems to all hinge on what Slash wants to do going forward.


That's SO true. :hihi:

He has a house in LA and a house in Seattle.

5 months Duff?, I think it's safe to say that we can write off the whole year in regards to any VR activity.  :yes:

And again, I sense Duff's fustration at the situation regarding VR. I just hope when it is time to start VR again, the passion and fire is still there, and they don't start resenting each other for the long wait.

This is beyond ridiculous now and just purely disrespectful to the fans. I agree, wait for the comment when 5 months comes around..."oh we are going to reconvene in the new year". What a joke. My vote is its going to be 12 months from now that we are going to see anything happen.

Disrespectful to the fans?  In what possible way is Duff and Slash putting other projects at the forefront of their activities in any way, shape or form "disrespectful" to the fans?

Ali

I don't get the whole disrespect thing. I don't feel disrespected.
Look at it realistically. How many bands survive the loss of their lead singer?
That's a pretty big obstacle.
I think VR almost shot themselves in the foot by trying to keep the fans updated on the singer search.
Some people seem upset it hasn't gone as smooth as they'd like, but that really has more to do with fan's unrealistic expectations.

Rushing into picking a lead singer and making a record to appease impatient fans probably isn't the best recipe for good music.

Some fans just seem to believe that a musician is being disrespectful to their fans if things don't go exactly as they personally want things to go. As if for some reason buying records and gig tickets means that they're owed everything that they want the band to do in return. Sorry, people... no! When you buy a record or a gig ticket, what you get in return is music or a show. That's it. Not they're unwavering devotion to making sure you are personally made happy! It would be an impossible situation anyway, considering no matter what they do, someone's going to be not happy with it talking about how disrespectful it is to not do what they want.

Every single time a potential date goes by, and they extend it when it gets to that date makes me more convinced that nothing is ever going to happen with this band beyond rumours, though. Although, a lot of people did say this about Chinese Democracy, and they were all proved wrong.

I agree with the context in which you are using this argument for the VR thing, but I don't necessarily agree with it in general.  Without the fans, the bands would be shit, they would not exist.   They would be waiting tables, not driving around in limo's.  So I think the bands do owe something to the fans from time to time.  I don't mean to the point of catering to their every single want and need, but it is nice when they give back to the fans.  Bands like Avenged Sevenfold, Pearl Jam, Green Day and Metallica "get" this.  Their fan clubs are full of extra cool stuff for the diehard fans, and they tour relentlessly in every single market, big or small.  They treat their fans like gold.  As far as the VR thing, they need to do what is best for them, I don't feel like they owe the fans anything right now.

I don't think any musician owes anybody anything, because yes, they get your money. But it's a trade of "we get money, we give you a show and/or new music". If they want to give fans any more than that, that's their choice, and I think it's great when bands do that. But they're not obligated to, because by making the record they've already fulfilled their part of the deal.

It's like people demanding free stuff from a shop because they happen to have spent money there. If they set up an offer so that you get free stuff, that's fair play. But you'd be an asshole to expect them to do so.

that analogy aint working with the "free" thing, it'd be more like you would love to buy in that shop again, spending your own money for things that could easily be made available these days (live shows, dvds, demo mp3s, whatever....).

If a group of people made me rich beyond my wildest dreams, I would go above and beyond for them.  Thats me though.  Not everyone is of the same mind set.  Above and beyond could simply mean hitting small markets and giving everyone a chance to see you like A7X does, or doing meet and greets before every show like Metallica does.  Or taking the 5 extra minutes after a show to slap everyone along the railing on the way to the dressing room  five and say "thank you" to them like James Hefield does. Pulling fans on stage to sing songs with you like Green Day does.  Also putting every show you do online so everyone in the world can buy it, even those who live in countries you can't get to.  Giving back to the fans doesn't mean giving away something of monetary value.  To say its a simple cash for music and show thing, well thats a great mindset when dealing with a hooker.  I always love the bands who make you feel like you are a part of the family and the ones who truly believe it.

Also considering these days people don't have to buy music they can just take it, artists should be even more appreciative.

Great post, Bodhi

yeah, great one, thanks!

What I'm saying is, they are dicking around the fans by saying one thing and doing another. They said they would have a decision within the past few months, that hasn't happened. I don't expect much as a fan but for a band to be on hiatus for 3 years and then finally say "we should have a decision on a singer at X time" and then not follow through, it's disappointing. I'm frustrated and its obvious Duff and Matt are somewhat frustrated about it aswell.

Its not like they're lying. They don't know whats happening!!! it's not like they're issuing press releases and promises, they're speaking with optimism about the current situations and the future to naggy reporters. You can't hold them to these things!!!

Bohdi, second to everything you said! nice posts

VR tours extensively, when their is a VR, and without a singer - they don't qualify

shit, slash will have toured his solo album for over a year by the time it ends :hihi:

These bands were not just made rich beyond their wildest dreams.  They were made rich beyond their wildest dreams because they made great music and put on great shows the connected with and entertained people immensely.  The band would be shit if not for the music they wrote and the shows they put on that created and drew in fans.  Bands like GN'R and Metallica didn't just make it out of dumb luck.  They made it out of a combination of luck, hard work and great talent.

I agree it's cool when bands take the time out to say hello and thank the fans for coming out.  No doubt it's cool.  The "part of the family" thing doesn't really resonate with me as I've never had that mindset of being part of a family with a band and/or other fans.  At the end of the day, it is the music business and you get what you pay for, and you aren't owed anything else.  You may want something else, but there is a big distinction between wanting more and being entitled to it.  I'm not saying this specifically in regards to you, but in general, many seem to have difficulty making that distinction.

And, I'm sorry, but that last comment was completely absurd.  Bands do NOT have to be nor SHOULD they be appreciative of people not stealing their music.  People SHOULD NOT steal their music.  I'm sorry, but you don't get rewarded, thanked or even a pat on the back for obeying the law, you just don't get punished for breaking it.

Ali

That is a good way to look at it if it is 1992, in 2011 it doesn't really apply anymore.  I don't think its absurd, I think unfortunately it is reality.  With torrents these days, a band should be appreciative when people actually BUY their music.  I never download things for free, I like to have a hard copy of the album with artwork, but most people don't.  To simply label it as stealing is kind of an old way of looking at things.  The business model for buying an album is flawed and needs to be changed, the internet killed it.  How do you steal something that doesn't actually physically exist?  I am not condoning stealing music, but the reality is most people will just take it if they can.   To just call it stealing and say they need to be punished doesn't really resonate in 2011, especially when the concept of buying a record is completely lost on today's youth.

Bands that live in reality today make a point of thanking their fans for "actually buying" the album because they know you can just take it.   They do it all the time.   I think you are underestimating the power of the music fan, without the fans the bands would not exist.  You make it sound like a band is doing the fans a favor by giving them music, the fans are doing the band an equal favor by actually listening to it.   It is a give and take relationship.  The family aspect of a fan base is what I have always been drawn too.  Metallica's whole "we are Metallica, you are Metallica" mentality is a big part of the reason why I love them so much.    Come to think of it I can't really think of any bands that I am into that don't treat their fans with a lot of repect.  If there is no sense of comradery between a band and their fans Im usually not interested in that band.  A simple "you get what you pay for" mentality is what I look for when I buy a car or a new pair of shoes.

I think someone might have already pointed this out, but I find it ironic that people on a GUNS N ROSES board are complaining about a band that may take, gasp, 5 years between albums!  On top of that, Slash and Duff just released albums...  And rather than getting caught up with whether or not these guys "owe" you anything, I say just be thankful some of your favorite artists are still even alive and out there touring and making music.  Can't really take that fact for granted, especially, with the two guys (Duff and Slash) in question. 

1992 vs. 2011 doesn't change the fact that taking something (especially of monetary value like an album) without giving payment  is theft or piracy (however you want to term it).  No one gets a thank you or gold star for doing what they're supposed to do and following the law (i.e. paying for the records they obtain).  You just don't get punished.  I'm sorry, but it is really that simple.  You SHOULD pay for the records you get.  That's why there are piracy laws.  Bands don't have to thank anyone for following the law.  Piracy/theft is illegal.  End of story. 

No shit the fans are doing the bands a favor by listening to the music.  But, by the same token, the bands are doing US a favor by giving us music to listen to. 

Yes, it's cool when bands go above and beyond.  The fact is though, they are not obligated to do anything beyond delivering the album and kicking ass live when you pay for albums and concert tickets.  This is a business after all.  Yes, it's NICE when they do more.  But, that doesn't translate to obligation.  If you need to feel like you're part of a band's "family", I don't understand that at all, but more power to you.

Ali

I actually said everything you just said, and agree with everything you said from stealing to it not being an obligation to do things for your fans.  So we are on the same page.  I agree stealing songs is wrong, but I also KNOW that most people don't give a shit and do it anyway.  Thats why a band should be thankful for those honest people out there who keep them going.   

As far as the being part of the bands family, I really don't know what there isnt to get.  It seems like you have no problem having the same relation to a band as you do your accountant, that wouldnt do it for me.    It isn't just music to some of us, it is a way of life.  James Hetfield talks about the spiritual connection to his fans, and living and dying with them.  It is way more than just music.  There is a intangible thing that cant be explained, you have to feel it.  Metallica is not just 4 guys on a stage, it is also the 20,000 people in the arena.    I keep using them as an example because they are pretty vocal about the importance of the band/fan relationship, and how there really is nothing seperating the two. Many other bands do the same thing just as well or better than them.  It sounds cheesy but if I can't connect with a band on a higher level than just finding their tune catchy, they usually don't do it for me.  I have a lot of those type of bands on my ipod, but I wouldn't say that any of them are among my favorites. Thats me though.  My life is music.  I eat, breathe, sleep and work in music.  The whole underground scene that I came up with is where you get that"family" vibe, it is definitely not there in some genre's of music.

 Sure bands are not obligated to do things for their fans, but its nice when they do. If they were obligated, the nice things would not be nearly as special when they did them. Just like fans are no longer obligated to pay for the bands music but it is nice when they do.  It will be interesting to see if more bands go the Radiohead, NIN and Angels and Airwaves rout and just give their future records away for free.  I for one hope that doesn't happen as I enjoy trips to the record store, but it seems inevitable.  Especially with today's youth who get whatever they want in the click of a button, going to a store to get something in 5 years will make no sense to them.

To even have the choice to frequently pick what to buy next between other things than the "normal album" (B-Sides, Live Audio, Live Video, DVDs etc.) from your fave bands is from high value for a music fan.

The whole thing about having the same relationship with a band as I do with an accountant is, frankly, ridiculous and completely uninformed.  Music is one of the most important things in my life.  I just don't need to or want to feel like I'm a part of some extended family with a band to connect with and have the music itself resonate with and hold deep meaning for me.  I don't need to know or feel directly connected to the artist in a familial way to connect with the thoughts and emotions expressed in the music on a higher level.  If you need to feel that, great.  Not everyone does, so not everyone feels like they need to have bands behave like Metallica in order to get fulfillment out of their music and live shows.  I feel a connection to the bands I like because their music speaks to me and, at times, because I feel that music points to similar personal experiences.

These days, you can legally purchase an album without going to a store.  So, anyone that uses that excuse for not purchasing music is l

Ali

I said the accountant thing because you said a few times how the relationship with a band is you give them money, they give you the product.  You last post cleared up any confusion I had about what you were saying   I think you are taking the family thing too literally, its is more of a community thing, like a fan base, much like this board we are on right now.  I honestly think we are agreeing on all of this stuff, but getting caught up in semantics.

From Slash to Rolling Stone March 25th:

Is anything new with Velvet Revolver?

Slash: We have not resolved the singer situation yet. We keep making stabs at it, but nothing's come out of it. We're very particular about what it should sound like. Sometimes a couple of guys might agree on one singer, and a couple of them might not, but for the most part I think the right person will be a universal decision between all the guys.

From Duff March 29th:

TCC: Velvet Revolver is currently looking for a new lead singer. Are you guys looking for someone with an already established resume like Scott Weiland or more of a newcomer?

Duff McKagan: I have no idea. I really--I?m being honest with you. Slash is on tour. We?re about to start touring. So right now, we?re not doing anything. There?s no rush. I guess we?ll get to that when we get to that.

http://www.fileserve.com/file/hXdgkJS  :beer:

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Dave was the guy saying no to every singer

That made me laugh out loud, literally.  :rofl:

But yeah, I think it's obvious that the main conflicts in regard to a singer is between the Slash, Duff and Matt. I think Dave would settle for just about anyone, to start touring again.

It's a shame really, because from the few interviews I've seen from Dave, he does seem like a really cool, down to earth guy.  :)