Here Today... Gone To Hell!

GUNS N' ROSES fans shouldn't expect a new studio album from the band anytime soon, according to the band's guitarist, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal. Even though GUNS N' ROSES axeman D.J. Ashba said in an interview at last week's launch party for the "Call Of Duty: Black Ops" video game that the band is "throwing around a bunch of ideas" for its next CD, Bumblefoot doesn't believe that a new GN'R album will surface in the foreseeable future. He writes on his Facebook page, "We've yet to get in a room and write as a band." He adds, " know D.J. mentioned something about a new album, but don't want y'all expecting anything soon. Other than old unreleased ['Chinese Democracy'] songs, songs need to be written, jammed, recorded, tweaked, re-worked, re-recorded, mixed, re-mixed, mastered, re-mastered, art, new art, label approval, a game plan from the label that Axl [Rose, lead singer] approves.... not as simple when it's on such a big scale... Just don't want ya getting frustrated if a GN'R album doesn't happen quick..."

Rose himself hinted in an interview back in 2002 that he had compiled enough songs to release follow-ups to "Chinese Democracy" in rapid succession, saying, "The plan is to drop the record. Have a bunch of extra tracks . . . about a year or so down the road, drop another record, and drop a third record. This is a three stage thing; we'll be touring for a real long time."

In addition to Ashba, Thal and sole original member Rose, the current lineup of GUNS N' ROSES includes guitarist Richard Fortus, bassist Tommy Stinson, keyboardists Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman and drummer Frank Ferrer.

GUNS N' ROSES' latest album, "Chinese Democracy", was released in November 2008 as a Best Buy exclusive, 17 years after the last all-original GUNS sets, "Use Your Illusion I" and "II". The album was a commercial disappointment, selling less than one million copies in the U.S. (according to Nielsen SoundScan) despite the long wait.

Bumblefoot joined GUNS N' ROSES in early 2006 as the replacement for Buckethead. He made his live debut with the band at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City on May 12, 2006.

Ashba joined GUNS N' ROSES in March 2009 following the departure of Robin Finck.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=149257&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blabbermouth+%28Blabbermouth.net%27s+Daily+Headlines%29

less than one million copies in the U.S? I thought it was much more. what a commercial flop.

Well, like I said in another thread, it sounds like Thal has a better grip on this than many people do.  He speaks the truth.  Don't get all excited about it because you know it's not going to happen quickly at all.  Rapid succession?  My ass.   

we got chinese democracy, everything else from here on in is a bonus.

Word. This is the best way to look at it for sure. We are lucky CD actually got released. Anything else is just a bonus you are right.

I think the fact that we got Chinese Democracy at all was a bonus. I can only imagine the hell Axl fought through to get this masterpiece to us.

Another album at this point is an extremely unrealistic and unfair expectation for any fan to have so shortly after Chinese Democracy's release. I, for one, am very excited that the band is out there giving this album the promotion that it deserves. With any luck, the band will tour the US in 2011 and then follow-up with some added dates or enjoy some down time after their highly succesful tour.

I don't understand why, when they are all together out on the road, they don't at least have the frame work of some new songs in the works.

How do we know they don't?  I mean we don't know the plan, is the next album old stuff left over, is it a mix of stuff?  Are they bringing ideas to the table for future use?  We don't know at all. 

I was convinced that a new album would come out in November 2011, i was really convinced of that, but after this, im not expecting any albums to drop within the next 5 years.

All Ashba said was that it wouldnt take the same time as Chinese Democracy... Chinese Democracy took more than 10 years, so im guessing he means it will take 3 to 5 years to complete the new album...


When the tour is over im gonna take a break from this band, i think we should all do the same and go one with our lives until something hints a return.. Thats my advice ;D

Funny how people from Blabbermouth are so quick to get anything from here (I assume, maybe from MyGNR) to make a headline.

Anyways, Bumblefoot is writing for his solo effort, but he already said many times how he would like to write and record from the scratch with the current line-up. Hope that happens soon as he seems inspired to do so.

I think B-Foot is just doing a little damage control- doesn't mean a new album isn't in the pipeline but we shouldn't expect it in a matter of months, maybe a couple years when all is said & done- which is fine.

To be honest, when I heard people suggesting it could be out within the next year I wondered what they'd been smoking.

Even DJs statement doesnt suggest its about to drop. BBF is just clarifying that.

Who knows how many or if any CD era songs R' already complete..Perhaps B-Foot isn't interested in playing on songs already written like he did on CD..
I say clean out the CD era closet N' get this new kick ass lineup working on new tunes..Scrap the tour N' write/record...We aint gettin' any younger!!

Scrap the tour?

Take it you have no intention to go to the US dates then.

Exactly.  No need for people to be hating on DJ for making comments about a possible next album.  The guy never promised anything or gave an exact time frame.  People just jumped to their own conclusions.  Ron's been down this road before, so he decided to jump in and stop the madness before it got out of control.

Atleast we are talking about more unheard GNR music !

I'm sure there is a lot of business stuff to sort thru before new music is released. They need to put out an album where the band has creative control over all the content and have a good marketing plan to get it in front of as many people as possible without whoring it and the band out to the media.

Between rehearsing, soundchecking, traveling, and playing shows I don't imagine there's a bunch of time for everyone to sit around writing new stuff. Tours can be grueling and you're usually just trying to catch some sleep during any downtime.

its a big failure if GNR fail to deliver anything until 2012 in my opinion... If we're gonna wait 5-10 years for each album, we might as well be at HTGTH when we're 60 years old  :hihi: i mean it comes to a point where its just ridiculous.

It doesn't mean thats the case btw, im just saying IF they fail to deliver until 2012.

This tour has been going so good that its a terrible shame if they dont continue that professional register.

Thats my opinion at least

Not that simple. The word 'deliver' means many things to the many different people involved in any future release.

You're still here?

Wow.....



/jarmo

You people sound like Axl's 80 years old. The guy is only 48 years old, I think he still has some quality years left in him. (CD proved that I think)

As for the eventual songs on the album - who gives a crap if it's "old" material which wasn't used (for God knows what reasons) on Chinese Democracy?

The fact is we are getting new music from our favorite band "soon" and that's what matters.

And for those who are whining about the songs beeing old and unused material for CD - what's the point in that? It's not like any of you heard those and don't like them.  ::)

Im here to stay  ;D Lets see who hangs until then  :hihi:

      Even if its old un-released material from the CD sessions , I'd love to hear it. I really hope we get an album at least in 2012. To show we don't have to wait 14-15 years again.

Considering you are you, I wouldn't bet money on you being here for too long....




/jarmo

Why not? I am  ;D

I might even set a tent  here haha

You better have some good bootlegs on your site though  :hihi: keep them coming

All things aside you do have a sexy website! So i plan on staying

he said old chinese democracy songs which leads me to belive songs like silkworms so that was probablly what i thought the new album would have on it

DJ did clue us into where we can find it, it's up Axl's sleeves.  Time for a body search which is far more fun then when it was in his cd player in the car.  Probably what happen to the Bentley.  ;D

I bet Bumblefoot speaks the truth, this just feels like so, he seems to know how things are done in GNR. It's sad that things are going so slow in GNR camp, but i guess that's just how things go nowadays.. I'm glad that they are touring though, better than nothing. It has been 2 years from CD now, i think many fans will be frustrated if the album isn't out until 2014 or something like that. And yes, Axl has many years left, but he also has very many amazing songs left unreleased that fans are eager to hear.

I think CD tour ends in 2011 and then there's a break, but after that something has to happen, so 2012 is the first potential year for the new CD if you ask me.

But to release a new record with unreleased Chinese-era tracks wouldnt take that much time, I assume. I mean, I think they are focusing in the tours now and when Axl feels the timing is right, they start to work on it to rerecord (if they didnt already) overdubs, mixing, mastering and dealing with label. Of course it takes time, but if it would be anythng like Chinese (with recordings ending in 2007), it would take a bit more or less than 2 years from now.

Of course, thats just speculation.

If you mean "songs like Silkworms" as in industrial/eletronica style, I think you assumed way too much from Ron's words.

It might not be a good idea for Axl to release the old chinese democracy songs as a new album, i mean with that staple on it.

However maybe Axl could think about releasing a small boxset with the songs that are already done from the Chinese Democracy sessions.

"Chinese Democracy revisited" or something like that, im sure all the fans would buy it, since we all are eager to hear new music.

We dont care if its from the new band with Ashba or not, we just want to hear something new, something refreshing

It's not as if most of the public would even know that they are"Chinese era" songs. Most, myself included, would view it as new material by Guns N Roses. When the songs were originally conceived will play little to no factor.



You may not care if Ashba is featured, but please don't act as if you are speaking for everybody. I love the current lineup and certainly want to see one of GNR's lead guitarists featured.

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to do everything possible to keep this very strong momentum building up.
Things have been going very well for GNR for many months now and their popularity, as well as fanbase, seems to be skyrocketing.

The CD tour is not over yet, and the USA tour in 2011 is a very good move.

After the tour is over I would very much like to see a new album relatively quickly, within months if possible. Maybe a (commercially cleaver) single out as quickly as possible. This way the new album itself would keep the momentum building up.

Will the next album be "old" CD era stuff or totally new songs made by current line-up? Personally I`d prefer a CD2 album out fast and a current line-up album maybe a year after the tour. BUT this is not necessarily what they SHOULD do....because THE most important thing is that the next album is as HUGE a success as possible. The time for Guns n roses to reclaim their rightful spot as NO 1 rock band in the world is right after the current world tour is over and they can do it with a good, well promoted and "commercially cleaver" new album.  If the rest of the CD era songs qualify as such.....great let`s have CD2 in 2011. Otherwise I think they should get to work with totally new album, release it first and then (maybe a year after) release CD2 (+maybe/hopefully CD3).

Well i give preference to see Ashba on the record, but if Axl doesn't want to remix the songs he already has i wouldn't mind as long as they release it.

I think the best thing really would be for Axl to release all the material he has from the chinese democracy era, call it a day on that era, finally making a final statement on it, and start working on a new album with the band and Ashba.

Its time to close the chinese democracy chapter for good in my opinion (after the tour) and start working on something refreshing.

I most definitely concur with that opinion. Close the chapter on CD era stuff. I want to hear what DJ and Bumble can do with original material. They just seem to have  better chemistry with the band. Oh and I hope the the U.S. tour starts in the NJ/NYC area.

I would like to see one more tour here in the States-honestly, anytime soon sounds like don't look  for anything in the next 2 or 3 years, minimum.

Personally myself, I'd like to see the US Tour done and dusted, then a release or two of some new material as singles, something that hasn't been heard anywhere.  From this I'd like to see the unreleased stuff from CD 2 with  Ashba and done on a new/independent label as an album, called maybe Democracy Achieved... and then future tours done under a new name. In my view, the CD name is something that has hamstrung the band and Axl.  It conjures up all kinds of negative shit that pushed the 14years wait, reclusive Axl, hired guns always late yadda, yadda, yadda buttons since Y2K.

A new era is due in my opinion, one where ridicule stops and a change of heart from those that can advise Axl in a positive way to do a few high profile interviews that allows him to be heard.  A set of tv or radio interviews where he is able to finally kill the ghost of the 1990's once and for all and be allowed to release the material that they are capable of, free of ridicule and with a more informed public knowing they still have it. A game changer if you like.

We have a long wait ladies and gentleman  :(

Why does everyone feel the need to provide GN'R with a release strategy?

It's funny how diverse they all are too.

It'll be done when its done. Until then, there's plenty to look forward to - a US tour, Australian gigs, possible Eastern European dates etc.

Completely agree. The current lineup's combination of talent and chemistry makes me really excited to hear what they can come up with in the studio.   

Even if it does take 5-6 years to record, I think that fans should be patient. I believe the payoff will be well worth it.  :)

Yeah, I don't think the lack of material is a problem as far as a new release goes.  I don't know it for a fact, but we've been told there's plenty of material and I believe that.  Same with Chinese Democracy.  That album, material wise, could've easily come out in the early part of this century, but things on the business end seemed to delay things for nearly a decade.  And it seems pretty clear to me that things haven't improved with the band and the label since CD's release.  So I don't foresee things getting any easier in releasing the follow up.

Unless Axl lost interest in releasing the material that didnt come out on CD that they have ready. That could be the issue too

I can't remember how many songs he told Kurt Loder they were working on-wasn't it like 70? I'm not sure if they were completed or not-anyway, if they did work on previous material, you could see credits on songs from Bucket, Robin Fink, Brain still-I can't believe they would start from scratch, but who knows.

i thought it was a double albums worth of songs around 30-40 but idr

The deal with music powerhouse Sanctuary Group covers both the back catalogue, which includes hits such as "Sweet Child of Mine," "Paradise City" and "November Rain," as well as Rose's future material, including dozens of new tracks he recently recorded for Universal Music.


Yep, this + Bach's comments would make it around 30 to 40

Definitely agree with you, this is something that Axl could do before it's too late. Just couple nicely done interviews and that's all for a while if he wants so. That way many could see that Axl isn't so bad guy, and their image of him would change immediately, at least that's what i think.

I think he should just release a record like Use Your Illusions. 2 cds with the chinese Democracy era songs, both coming out on the same date, with some promotion just like in the illusions era, and Axl could just say that this is similar to use your illusions, its kind of a compilation of what everyone came up with in 2 cds and now we're gonna do the next album (This would have to be after the US tour of course), but i think it would be such a great way to bring closure to the Chinese Democracy era, and imagine the impact it would have!

Guns N'Roses needs this kind of impact in the music bizz now more than ever!

The Advantages on this plan:

1. The IMPACT! (Imagine: Guns N'Roses frontman Axl Rose just shocked the world by releasing a double album called... the album will have 30 or 40 songs and it will be released at.... just an example... imagine the NEWS this would make).

2. It would end the "fear" of anyone doing something stupid and leak songs or sell them or even publish them on their website. That would END! The songs would lose their value on the "trading world" since they would be out and they would increase value for the fans because they would have the opportunity to listen to them.

3. It would end an Infamous yet great era from Guns N'Roses, and it would establish Chinese Democracy the album and the follow up as Guns N'Roses' "white album" and therefore people would give it a chance and listen to it (Those who still havent).

4.It would give that era a special status, that only Appetite has in Guns N'Roses Discography. I mean the illusions were great and the Use Your Illusion 1 is my favorite album, BUT it never had the status Appetite had in the Rock N'Roll History, if Axl released the songs that didnt make it on Chinese Democracy as to bring closure to that era, it would give that album the Special status Appetite has, maybe in a different way, but it would nonetheless almost for sure.

5. It would shut up the critics FOREVER. Not that WE or AXL or the band cares, but it wouldnt hurt to have them Shut the fuck up forever with a Kick right in their Thin air!

6. Last but not least, it would make up enough time for the band to work on the future album, produced and written with the CURRENT guys. People would surely be entertained with the double album, and there wouldnt be the stupid demand for another album for awhile, so this would give this CURRENT band enough FREEDOM to actually produce a new album.


Its just an idea that im posting, im not really telling anyone what to do, its a good read i think, tell me what you think

There's songs we're still shuffling around, I mean we recorded about two and a half, three albums worth of material. So, there's still stuff that's gonna bounce between one and two." (Axl, Eddie Trunk show, 05/05/06)

Exactly, and people slam me and Voodoo for saying there is a good chance alot of Chinese material will be on CD II as well.  :hihi:

"'People will hear music this year,' says Axl Rose, puffing on a cigar in the early hours of Saturday morning at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. 'We're working on thirty-two songs, and twenty-six are nearly done,' he says. Of those, thirteen are slated for the final album. Among Rose's favorites are 'Better,' 'There Was a Time' and 'The Blues.'" (Rolling Stone, 01/18/06)

"As a sign of his gratitude, Mullineaux said Rose sent someone to his hotel room to retrieve two CDs, each one containing 10 tracks. Mullineaux, who said he manned the DJ booth and spun the discs for Rose, said several of the tracks reminded him of classic GN'R, with moments of uncharacteristic heaviness. Axl 'kept telling me to put back track #3. I guess that was his favorite song,' he said."

Entertainment Weekly does this thing they call their 'Hit List' that's sorta like David Letterman's Top Ten List.  They list 10 current entertainment news items, each of which they follow with a snarky remark.  Ron's comment made the list.

Entertainment Weekly
#1130 * November 26, 2010
Hit List by Dan Snierson

9. Guns N' Roses guitarist tries to clarify status of follow-up album to Chinese Democracy: "Don't want y'all expecting anything soon."
Just put it in language we can all understand:  When this comes out, is Bieber gray or not?

Brian May, December 2008:


Axl phoned me up, out of the blue, and told me he felt he was losing his way over guitars on the tracks on the album, and asked me if I would come over for a couple of days to LA and have look. The idea was not that I become part of the band! It was more about me coming in as a friend, giving what I could to the project, as an objective outside opinion, and doing a bit of guitar playing as well. I said I'd be very happy to do that. His people booked me on plane, and I arrived a couple of days later. It was fun. Axl came down to the studio from his house, where he was also working in parallel on other stuff in his home studio, and, with Sean, played about 20 tracks to me ... pretty much almost the whole album as it stood at that time. That's a lot of listening time! But it was all fascinating. My comments were mainly appreciations, and reassurances, and I liked most of the guitar that was already on there, but I remember having strong 'producorial' feelings about making sure Axl's great vocals didn't get swamped in too much guitar ornamentation.

Then I played some guitar ... working with Sean. Over the next couple of days I went in and spent most of day there, trying things out on various tracks. Axl actually stayed away from that time on, getting Sean to take up rough mixes of what we'd been doing each night, and sending back appreciative comments. Then I went home!

Oh .. we also had a nice evening having dinner up at Axl's home, with a few friends and record company guys, during which Axl played everybody a whole bunch of tracks that were NOT already on the album ... which he had been working on separately. It was evidently already a mammoth project.

In my mind, I gave it a small piece of my life, without any thought of getting anything back, except the feeling that I'd contributed a little to the journey of the album project. I didn't ask to be paid, or even credited, and I certainly didn't put any constraints on whether the guys had to use my work or not.

I'm totally relaxed about the outcome, as I always was, and I hope that Axl will now feel liberated, by the final emergence of his magnum opus, to move on, and get back out there where we all want him to be, rockin' around the world ...

I remember telling Ron in Dec, 2008. That I thought his Catcher In The Rye solo, was better than Brain Mays'. Ron was very humble, and kept on saying "nah, nah".  ;)

But I think the Brian May interview from 2008, indicates that Axls intention from the early 2000s. Was to release CD in seperate installments, maybe 2 albums or 3 over the course of a few years. From the amount of material that existed, and all of the Axl quotes, Baz quotes and even Brain May quotes. it's not hard to come to that conclusion, but it will be interesting to see if Axl follows his plan through.

patient wait time it takes the new album, GN'R fans are accustomed to expect

Agree, my guess is that at least one more CD with vocals it's already done since 2007/2008.
I got plenty quotes from members/ex members that indicates there are tons of new songs from the CD sessions, so... i dont understand some ppl saying that there is no new material..

dealing with label... i think this is the main problem..

It's probably best that we don't speculate and let things take their own natural course.

We need to keep in mind that the band has been touring successfully for nearly a year and it has only been two years since Chinese Democracy's release. We, as fans, really have no room at all to complain about the band's activity.

Nobody is complaining. Speculating on the new album has nothing to do with the band status - at least from me. IMHO, it's just fun to talk about new songs and production, there's no harm here.

The title is kinda misleading and that seems to confuse some people.

If you look at what he said and pick it apart, it's easier to see what he meant:



Notice that part.

We all know the band recorded material that didn't make it onto Chinese Democracy.


This is true. But when talking about the first scenario, many of these steps can be skipped....

Which could be quicker than starting from scratch.

Also, what Dj talked about makes sense. Anyone who's seen the band on this tour can see how much chemistry they have. They've toured together around the world since December 2009.

It's no surprise if Dj is excited about the prospect of using all that energy to create something new.




What is still true is that there's no need to get mad at the band for not releasing "that promised album" soon.





/jarmo

See, I don't think it's ridiculous.

When I'm 60, I will (hopefully) be riding in my self driving hover-car, rocking out to GnR on my Applesoft music implant, wondering when they're going to cryogenically defrost and "de-age" Mr. Rose for another round of GnR goodness.  That wish is true today, and will be true whether they drop another album or not.

I love the music we have so far....anything else, at this point, is a bonus.  CD was every bit as good as I'd hoped it would be...it's STILL in my car CD player, on my MP3 player, and on my PC's...and the songs are very much still in the regular rotation (just like the songs from Appetite, UYI, and Lies are).  I could care less how many copies it sold, so long as I have mine.   

Yes, but often times one's speculation turns into negativity. There are already people speculating that Axl may no longer be interested in the previously recorded material. Others have questioned why he would tour NA again without a new album being released. Others have suggested BBF's "no new album anytime soon" to mean that we would be waiting another ten years.

Again, speculation without basis often turns a positive sceario into something negative. I'd prefer to just sit back and enjoy Chinese Democracy while the band is out playing live shows. No reason to focus on the "what ifs" when we have some truly positive things happening right now.

you worry way too much.. i don't listen/read or take serious those ppl.. negative comments and stuff are on the other board.. that's why i only write here.

When they were in Helsinki, I asked Ron about Catcher In The Rye and what happened to Brian May, we both agreed that just thinking about replacing Brian May is blasphemy :D

But the demo did sound like "Axl Rose performing with The Beatles featuring Brian May on lead guitar"

I'm not saying sounding like that is bad but the album version does sound more like Guns N' Roses, but still, Brian May...

I know what you're saying, Brian May is a legend.  :)

I think I liked Rons' solo better because I have became more accustomed to his style. And also maybe because it was fresher on the ears, but I do still enjoy the demo version. And yes it does sound very Beatlesesque, and has a different feel to it than the CD version.

I'm also in love with Rons' outro, his guitar just cries and it goes with the vocals perfectly. I just feel priveledged to have seen this song live on the day J.D Salinger past away, in Toronto, Canada.  ;)

I think i would be more happy if they released the "left overs" album! Im really looking forward to hear those industrial sounding songs and the rest of the ballads.
I think GNR will go traditional again with DJ so that can wait a little bit.
Im curious about the other songs for now and if they're released, it would be hella awesome!

The outro is beatiful, I actually said it to Ron, but you know Ron, just a very humble "thank you" for an answer. :)

Also hearing the song on the day Salinger past away, that's something special.

I kind of think that Axl's done a George Lucas thing, when Lucas chose not to make some Star Wars films because the technology wasn't available at the time. In the case of GnR's I feel Axl may have wanted the music done in a certain way, and regardless of whatever you think of the various members, each in my view has been an improvement on who they replaced. I know that's kind of debatable, Fink and Bucket, were great and I had the pleasure of seeing them play live, but in my view DJ, Bumblefoot as a unit are a more rounded kind of deal, they deliver, yet you feel that they have lots more to offer. Certainly in the case of Buckethead, talented, special, spectacular as he is, I don't sense that the group needed his brand of musical direction. Great solo's yes, but what of the overall contribution? I think Axl's  got a better deal with Daren and Ron with their combined input.

Well, like Lucas, none of us is Axl.

Had Chinese Democracy sounded like the old band, with new players, I would have been dissapointed, really, wouldn't have you?

You can replace players but you can't replace persons, without Robin we wouldn't have Better, without Slash we wouldn't have Sweet Child O' Mine.

Without Lucas we would not have Star Wars to begin with, like with Chinese Democracy, I'm cool with the prequel trilogy, vision of the man who is responsible for creating the whole thing.

Lucas and Axl are in a way the same, they don't give a f%#c about what you or I think, like it should be. Lucas made the movies for him self, just like Axl made the music for him self, they also faced the same expectations and problems, no matter what you do, people won't be satisfied because everyone has their own vision about the thing, they could have made carbon copies of their previous work but both of them chose not to. And if they had, critics and viewers/listeners would have said, more of the same, like CD, in time people will learn to appreciate the prequel trilogy.

This is a classic example of one of the many ways unauthorized leaks can hurt a band. Fans hear a variation of a song that they like, and in turn, they think they have the right to question the artist's decision on why they used one variation of the art over another.

I never personally heard the version featuring Brian May, but I can say that I think the album version with Bumblefoot's contribution was perfect. So, I can't imagine I'm missing much.

That is a great reply, couldn't agree more with you  : ok:

We all have the right to question, everything, that's how we learn, make new inventions, evolve.

Judging artist's product or vision on the other hand is something we don't really have the right to, as art is something made for your self, not for others, and it's something we can not prove. If you can prove it, it's a fact, if not, it's an opinion.