Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Afer reading posts regarding the current GN'R Line Up being the best ever got me thinking about the original "New GN'R" Line up o' 2000/2001 and where they rank in the GN'R Legacy.. Axl, Dizzy,B-Head,Robin,Brain,Tobius,Pittman,Stinson did not last very long, an MTV VMA appearence, New Years in Vegas N' Rock in Rio 3....But this lineup had a "Huge" hand in CD N' kept the GN'R Spirit going during the "Silent Years"..

Tobias didn't even make it to the VMA performance....Richard Fortus was there

Putting aside any comparison about who is the better musician, todays band is much more personable than the original comeback version.  I think Ron and DJ bring that out in everyone.  And Axl's demeanor on stage is also much more relaxed these days than ever.  Me personally, I like to watch a band that actually looks like they're having fun on stage, it kind of validates me having a good time at the show.

I think the 2001/2002 was the best instrumentally wise, without doubts.

Problem was Axl's voice ''wasnt there''. Now it is.

Bucket was a little scary if you ask me but the KFC bucket gave us a theme to work with.  He was amazing to watch play.  Tommy was more in the forefront and a lot more fun.  His hair was better--lol  Oh yeah hair was all the issue with everybody!  Axl was more of a mystery.  

I like this line up better but some of the fun of GNR was keeping an eye out for them.  They're every where now.  They are no longer a treasure hunt if you know what I mean.  

persomaly i think that 00-01 lineup was the worst lineup and the current one is the best since gilby got kicked out

love this lineup but you have to agree that the B&B duo was fucking perfect. Axl really successfully achieved  the 'new' gnr sound when he got Brain and Buck

Well I love Robin, and I really loved the shows I saw in 2006.

I think it would have been cool to see Robin and Bucket together in GN'R. But that was slightly before my time as in 2001, I had just started secondary school. As I discovered GN'R in 2004, I was lucky as the band returned in 2006. And I loved them shows I witnessed in 2006 (13) and Robin just blew me away.

We all have our favourite era I guess, it's just the way it is.

But you also have to accept that things change, it's apart of life. And I am more than happy with GN'R as it stands today. I wouldn't have seen them 5 times so far this year, and I'm planning on going to even more (Lille this weekend as well as others).

What I can do is, say out loud that I loved a previous member (Robin Finck). But what I also don't do is feel the need to degrade the current band as I point it out. All incarnations of GN'R rock, they are the best band in the world to me. And when a band holds such a special place in your heart as GN'R does, you stay with it, because it's impossible not to.  :)

I preferred the sound, and the crazed weirdness of the 2001-2002 era shows : GNR at that point were like aliens that only existed on stage and were only seen rarely.

Brian and Buckethead should still be there but the current line up is great  : ok:

That sums up that era perfectly, it was like they never existed and were just a myth until they was onstage. I'm gutted that I never saw a 2002 era show, but I'm thankfull I have got to see Finck and Brain with GN'R.

I miss Robin and Brain, i really hope that they continue as studio musicians for GNR.

Me too, and judging from Chinese Democracy, I'd say it's a good chance that their work will be heard for a few years yet.  ;D

Why? They left the band on their own accord and were replaced by extremely talented and competent musicians. I love DJ and Frank's work and I can't wait to hear them prominently featured together on an album.

I could understand wishing ex-members would return if a degradation was the result of their departure, but this wasn't the case. I find it somewhat disrespectful to the current band when fans comment that they hope ex-members are featured on future albums versus the guys who are in the band and currently on tour.

Yeah, we got it. You love the current band and want the ex-members like Robin, Bucket and Brain to vanish.

Yes and also I want to point out, Brain never left anything. He had to go back to be with his wife who was expecting a baby after the Paris 2006 show. Then he came back for the Las Vegas and San Francisco warm up shows, as well as the KROQ Inland Invasion.

But then after that Frank took over again, this was probably because Frank was more than able to fill his shoes. And also it allowed Brain more time to spend with his new family. And since then Frank has been the drummer, but Brain continues to be a member of Guns N' Roses.

Brain is just as much of a member as DJ is, he has toured with GN'R since 2001. And layed down countless drum tracks to GN'R songs, which will most likely be used on future releases too.

So just to clarify, Brain is still and active member of the band and continues to do studio work for GN'R. And this has been said by both Brain and Axl in the not too distant past.

Why? Cos Chinese Democracy is amazing and unique. In the world of CD, Bumblefoot and Buckethead can live in harmony even knowing that Bucket left GNR in 2004.
Bucket, Brain , Robin, Dj are very talented musicians, so i dont buy the famous "the more, the less" and that's why i wish robin n brain to be part of the new album.

I never said that i want them to return to GNR, i've seen the new lineup and i think they are the best of all eras.

GNR is a big family, anything can happen..

Couldn't agree more.

I honestly have no idea how you came to this conclusion based on any of my posts. However, I do have a newsflash for you: Bucket and Robin have vanished. Bucket left the band in a predicament in 2004 which forced Axl to pull out of Rock in Rio, and Robin jumped ship on the eve of Chinese Democracy's release. Brain's current involvement in GNR is questionable at best.

Even with all that said, I think all three are highly talented, exceptional musicians. I loved their work on Chinese Democracy and their solo work. It's not about wanting anyone to vanish, it's that they have in fact vanished - and on their own accord.

I love the current lineup. All three of the mentioned ex-members were replaced by highly talented and competent musicians. DJ, Frank, and BBF have all been a vital part of the band for a while now and they deserve to be prominently featured on all forthcoming albums.

I'm sorry if I offended you by choosing to live in the present and support the band that does in fact exist. As I said several times now, I find it disrespectful and degrading to the current band when "fans" call for ex-member's contributions to be featured on future albums versus the members who have made sacrifices over the past year to support Axl and the band. It's not much different than a reunion zealot trolling the forum with their pro- original lineup propaganda.   ::)

Buckethead, Brain and Robin was all over Chinese Democracy, so they have hardly vanished. And for the record, Robin never left on the eve of CD's release. He was announced in March or April I believe, to be re-joining NIN, so a good 8 months before CD was released.

Some of you forget that Robin and Brain have gave 10+ years to GN'R, just as much as Slash and Duff. They worked on alot of material with Axl, during the silent years. Which will be all used for future GN'R releases if Rons' latest comments are anything to go by.

If GN'R was actively touring, or had a release date for the album, in early 08. I honestly feel Robin would still be there, he just wants to play music and tour. But you had to understand it all went silent again in late 07. So Robin made a decision based on past experiences, he never took the decision lightly.

I'm not tempting fate here, but before disregarding Robin, Bucket and Brain. Just have think to yourself if DJ will still be there in 10 years time, if there are as many silent years as there was in the last decade.  :P

What does their presence on Chinese Democracy have to do with their present status now? They're gone and that's reality, regardless of what album they contributed to.

Considering the lenghthy weight for Chinese Democracy, eight months prior wasn't very much time prior to the album release.


This has nothing to do with any ex-members. Can't you see that? It's about supporting the current band, not trolling for an ex-member's return.


Please don't put words in BBF's mouth that he never said. He said there is no new material other than unreleased Chinese Democracy era songs. He didn't say that those songs wouldn't be re-worked or re-recorded.  ::)


Could you please quote where Robin ever said any such thing? Where did he say he left the band due to 2007 silence? As far as I can recall, the band successfully toured in 2007, so that would have been an odd reason for him to leave.   ::)


It doesn't seem like you are very supportive or interested in the current band based on these type of negative comments. So, because you "assume" that years of silence will follow, we should expect that DJ won't be around long? Please.  ::)

Talking about trolling...

You've been doing exactly the same thing all over the board complaining about people's REALISTIC predictions about the presence of ex-members in a new album. Keep in mind, ex-members that WROTE the new songs, not the ones who left 10 years ago and had no credits nor anything to do with the last studio album.

Either you like it or not, you can't disput the fact that Buckethead was still all over Chinese Democracy even if he left 4 years before. Robin and Brain were also gone by the time they released it. See, that's a pattern in here.

We all know how it's very likely that DJ would record at least something on an eventual new album. But that doesn't mean Robin wouldnt also be there. Bitch all you want, he'll most likely be there.


And please, don't even start to call One.In.A.Million a non-supportive fan. He's been around here way longer than you and went to see the CURRENT lineup many many times - yeah, he could afford it, but still means he cares enough.

Alot of your counter arguments are funny at best, and you talk about me putting words into peoples mouths. When Robin went to NIN, CD had no release date, thus Robin couldn't have known it was going to be released 8 months prior. Also GN'R never toured until a year after the release, what did you want Robin to do, sit at home waiting for the call. Axl has never slammed Robin or talked bad about him, so it seems like he understands to a certain extent why he did it.

And notice I said late 2007, 3-4months after the Asia tour finished, it went silent again, was you even a fan back then.  :hihi:

And I never put no words into Rons' mouth, I have met him twice in person, and would never do that. I simply stated that there is a good chance alot of the old unreleased CD songs will be used in relation to the next album. Or at least the framework of them, which is not an over exaggeration based on Rons comments. And you also have to factor in Axls' comments over the last 5 years, which he also indicates, that the left over unreleased songs will be carried over.

In relation to your last childish comment about me not being interested in the current band. I flew half way across the world sonny in Jan, to see them in Toronto, Canada. Don't lecture me about supporting, because I support the band and have an opinion, see?. I stated how Robin and Brain, have been through alot in the last 10 years with GN'R, all the good, bad and ugly. But they stuck with Axl for well over a decade, and DJ has been there for a year and a half so far. So it's hardly being unsupportive to want to acknowledge people like Robin, Dizzy, Brain, Tommy and Chris who was there in the 'Nu' era from the beginning.

I saw GN'R 13 times in 2006, and a further 10 times in 2010, so don't throw around words like supportive like you understand what they mean.

I'm sure that will give your opinionated ass, something to read in class.  :)

Funny. Here you are "assuming" you know how Axl feels. I recall Axl saying that Robin's departure left the band in kind of an awkward situation when he departed.  ::)

Nonetheless, this has nothing to do with Robin or his talent. It has everything to do with supporting the band that we have now and being supportive of the fact that Axl selected a great replacement for him.

Childish comment. Especailly considering I am 11 years older than you and have been following the band since the late eighties.   ::)


Actually, you did put words in Ron's mouth that he never stated. Here they are again, just in case you forgot:

Some of you forget that Robin and Brain have gave 10+ years to GN'R, just as much as Slash and Duff. They worked on alot of material with Axl, during the silent years. Which will be all used for future GN'R releases if Rons' latest comments are anything to go by.

Remember now? Ron never said that the Chinese era songs wouldn't be re-recorded. He only stated that Chinese era songs was all that they currently have available. You simply attempted to twist his words to further your pro ex-member agenda instead of supporting the band that we have now.  ::)


I've been following the band since the late eighties and have seen them live 18 times since the early nineties. I've purchased all their albums, memorabillia, and fully intend to see as many shows as possible if/when they tour the US in 2011. I'd say that makes me a supportive fan of Guns N Roses. Oh, and I'm extremely happy with the band that we have today and don't feel the need to troll fansites calling for ex-members to be featured on future albums when we have a great band who are more than capable.


What class? I graduated college 10 years ago. I can't believe I am being insulted just for being a fan of the current band. I love the current lineup. I loved Chinese and all of Robin Bucket, and Brain's contributions. However, I choose to live in the now and accept that these ex-members are no longer part of the band. I have absolutely no problem should Axl choose to use a solo of fill of one of the ex-members for a future album, but that would be Axl's decision. I think it's wrong when "fans" like you and Voodoo troll with your ex-member wishes when we have a great band who are currently on tour supporting Axl, the band, and its fans.

Please feel free to continue attacking me just for being a fan of the band that I thought we were all here to support.  ::)

Jesus Christ, somebody give me some Jagermeister, this guys sending me crazy...

I'm not going to say alot as I'm done arguing with you, and before I start look at the title of the damn thread. It's about 2001 era GN'R, so me and Voodoo have every right to talk about players like Robin Finck and Buckethead.

And since you Graduated you must know that saying "Judging by his (Rons') latest comments". Means that you are making assumptions based on them comments, and you are not saying that those comments you state have came from the objects mouth directly.

Since Ron mentioned unreleased Chinese Democracy tracks, and also re-recording in the same comment. One can make the assumption that they will be used on the next record, whether some parts will be re-recorded like Ron also said, who knows. And I came to that conclusion by taking Rons' comments, and making a likely assumptive comment based on Rons' words, I never once said that he said what I stated, I said judging from what Ron said, so please don't put words into my mouth.

Me and Voodoo, never go into the ex gunners section, simply to troll Slash threads for the fun of it. You are trolling this thread because you can blatantly see what the subject is, and you choose to come in and put your negative spin on every word.

I'll let Voodoo have is say, before I post in this thread again, I'm done arguing with someone who obviously has an agenda.  ::)

Nah man, Im not gonna waste my time with this guy. He was the one who showed up here in this thread to complain about people's personal taste, but now he's calling US troll. That was cute.

Also funny is how he's trying to put us as people who are against the current lineup AND against them rerecording things, when all we said was that we expect to see ex-members on a next release.

Im done with this troll. Im not here to waste my time with this kind of twisted bullshit.

I love the mystery that surrounded 2001/2002 shows, I'm slightly disappointed that Robin left because I enjoyed his work on Chi Dem and his take on the old songs.

I feel that DJ kinda brings more 'fun' to this line up, does that make sense?
The stage and lighting design seems to be more energised and more colour on this tour than any other.

That's true about the lighting and video being the most advanced yet. In 2006 I could take pictures fine with my N70, but this year I had to mature and take better photos. As the light was another factor which was against me, 9 times out of 10, the picture would be blured, simply because there was so much light.

But I do like the video screens and animations they have made in this tour. One that stands out is at the start of Chinese Democracy, when the GN'R logo slowly turns around exposing itself to the audience.  : ok:

Really looking forward to Buckets contributions on the next album, cant wait for soul monster (sounds like Shacklers evil twin) and the general,
im also intrigued and curious to hear some of Richards fine work on the next album as well.

There the 2 guitarists im looking forward to hearing more of most.
That doesn't make me a hater of the current band, its just my genuine feelings on the situation.

Thats alright dude. :)

I look foward to hear some lead by Richard. I thought he would have at least the SOD outro in the album, but he may have only come up with the idea (in 2002)  but then got Bucket to record it. I dunno, thats just my impression from the song's evolution back then.

Yeah its a shame Richard isn't more prominent in CD, but im holding out high expectations for him on cd2 which I know he can deliver,
hell I even think  Buckets best work is yet to come with songs like soul monster/ the general, sound very bucketesque ;p

good things await us Im sure...

Yes exactly, you can't help but get excited when you think about all of the song titles Axl has mentioned since 2001. I know we probably won't hear all of the material recorded between 2001-2006, but you can bet we will hear a substantial amount.

We can dream... ;)

There's also songs from 1999, like Atlas Shrugged (if I'm not mistaken).

Also I want to point out, is that the 2001 - 2002 lineup had probably the most pressure of any GN'R lineup ever. They had to go out there to represent the Guns N' Roses name, after being inactive since 93 (touring wise). They had to put up with the media comparing them to 93 era GN'R night after night.

The GN'R of today can soldier on knowing that the 'new' Guns N' Roses have toured since 2001. Don't get me wrong, there still must be alot of pressure up there, when you have the odd fans, or reviewers pining for the old band. But the 2001-02 era GN'R had to face all of this for the first time since, the 'old' era.

I agree. They needed to deal with a lot stronger skepticism. Also had a great pressure when they played the new songs - remember, those were their debut, there were no leaks back then and OMG wasnt really being considered as a sample of the whole material.

Having said that, I must say those were some of the most exciting times to be a fan. When I heard Riad for the first time (a couple of days before the RIR gig) in January 2001 I was so shocked on how good it sounded I got really won over the new band. I loved OMG, but that was the first time I really recognized the new stuff as coming from a real band.

the weaker Axl 01/02 voice, the "so-so" VMA'02 and the cancelled 2002 tour didnt help in this aswell IMO.

If by "weaker" you say his voice without rasp, I agree. But I also feel that's when he reached his highest notes - he could pull off the new songs way easier than nowadays.

You are talking about stuff that happened in between 2001-2002, I'm on about before they even did any live shows. They had alot to live up to, the first big comeback of a band the status of GN'R, and they put themselves out there to represent that brand.

They knew the criticism they would get before even striking a note, but they still took the challenge on.

then ^^this part of your post is not too exact - because they did shows in 2001/02. anyway the pressure might have been even bigger when being actual on stage during the first shows (than off stage), exspecially during the (nearly) worldwide tv broadcast of vma02 and the reviews from that.

@Voodoochild:
yes, i've meant the missing rasp there, it didnt do that good for most of the old songs (IMO), those were the ones people would re-compare with prevoius times at first. because whats new.....well, is unheard and new?! though i mostly agree with the 01/02 voice and the newer songs compared to post 5/2006 it also could be that we would think different when we wouldnt have heard those songs with the 01/02 voice in the first place (but then again i think a lot of the "unraspy" voice made its way on CD so we're comparing to studio versions often).

I never disliked his voice in 01/02. IHMO, the Vegas 2000 was one of his best shows ever. People would complain about it also because they felt the need to bash Axl and the new band - I remember back in the early 90s when people complained about too much rasp (like in Tokyo 92) and called him Donald Duck. 10 years later, people called him Mickey Mouse. ::)

I know they did shows in 2001 and 2002  :hihi:, but what I am saying is that you are basing your assumptions of criticism based on stuff that happened during the live shows like the 2002 VMAs or the cancelled 02 tour. Which anyway this is not a means to criticise GN'R, we don't know what happened with the 2002 tour, but you presume it was GN'Rs fault.  ::)

What I'm saying is that before they even started to do live shows, they must have had an idea some people were going to criticise them for not being Duff and Slash.  :P

I'm talking about 1999 - 2000, when they were just getting together as a band. They had the most pressure of any GN'R lineup, in that they had alot to live up to. So putting themsleves into that situation is very admirable and it took alot of courage.
 

i got your point and sure, the pressure was not lowest level, but see the quote from you....you've mentioned "01-02" (where they did live shows  ;) ), that was misleading in this discussion.
and still i also disagree on the pressure 99-2000 being bigger than 01/02 simply because fans, media etc. werent much aware of anything goin on in the camp 99-00. i also think the pressure after the cancelled 02 tour must have been unbelievable high and was a main part of the next generation of silent years 03-05.

Yes obviously the pressure was more during the live shows, but I was pointing out that seeing as they was representing GN'R there was still pressure in 1999-2000-2002. And I'm not even putting the live shows into the equation. But yes, I agree that the live shows would have been even more pressure, but I was on about starting a new era of GN'R, the Nu GN'R if you like, after the old band disbanded.

I am classing 1999-2002 as one era here, as all the members were the same with the exception of Paul Tobias, and Josh wasn't there for long either. You said that basically they brought it on themsleves because of the cancellations and in your opinion a 'so-so' VMA performance.

I was simply stating that even before the live shows they still had alot to live up to. And I believe no GN'R lineup since has faced that kind of expectation and critique.

Indeed. And even with all this pressure, they managed to write and record most of the album during these days. :D

It must of been so strange for the other members of the band, to have a member like Buckethead in the band. like all of the flying, hotels, limos, coaches. think about the interaction between Bucket and the other members at times like these, did he talk to them normally like without the mask?.  :D

I remember a photo of Robin, Richard, Dizzy and Tommy outside a pub in the UK,, in 2002. And I always wonder whether it was a normal thing for Bucket not to be present in situations like this. I suppose it was, due to his image and alter ego character.

Maybe he was there, but just not in that pic because he didnt want a photo with him without the mask.

In 2004 I was just becoming a fan, and now I'm aware of the situation regarding GN'R playing Lisbon in 2004. And not being able to due to Buckets departure.

But I can't help to dream about what that show would have been like if it went ahead, GN'R live in 2004 with the same lineup from 02. I bet it would of been an amazing show, and I'm so sad we wasn't able to see it happen.  :'(

I just wonder if they would have played more new songs like Better, TWAT or something, or would they go with the same 02 setlist.

I love Bumble, but it would be really something to see Bucket playing some of those new tunes.

Voodoo, no way in 2004. the new songs irs, cd, twat, better, made it into the live set 5/2006 after the leaks. it was a different scenario in 2001 with the come back and the internet not being that common with audio/video (live) leaks.
we wont get new songs in 2010/11 aswell. yeah, all speculation but i'd bet a lot on it.
but i could see Bucket doing some special guest appearance on an US leg, then we might get your request.

I dunno, maybe they could do one of those new songs - the scenario wasn't that different from 2001 frankly, I heard Riad, Blues and CD a week BEFORE the RIR3 gig.

I don't think either they will debut new songs next year, that's a total different case now.

Line UP 2002, The Best INSTRUMENTAL Version In The History... GN`R

 :peace:

You most likely right HBK, definitely technicialy I feel.

I tell you something: I don't think the live performances in the 2001-02 era were all that good. I didn't like Buckethead's improvisations because he overuses a lick pattern that annoys me to hell. Overall, it worked in some songs, but not in anothers.

I think the best instrumental version was in 2007, with Ron and Frank adding some powerful sound in the mix.

I can't get enough of Welcome To The Jungle from Rock In Rio 2001. It is the best ever intro in my opinion, so much energy and expectation.

I would have given an arm and a leg to have been there.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcMW31wtwpk

 :beer:

when you listen to the RIR show from 2001 it sounds great it makes me wonder what would of happened if that version of GN'R played those European shows later that year or continued their 01 tour into 02

^^they've toured in 2002 with that line-up just minus Paul/+ Richard

I just can't listen to the RIR3. Don't get me wrong, I love the performance, the emotion and all, but the mix was one of the worst I have ever heard from a soundboard broadcast (actually, the 2nd worse). One of the best things in that era makes me cringe: the keyboards are way too high in the mix, at the point that pretty much covers all guitars.

Also, Robin's guitar sounds like they just got the source directly from his guitar, bypassing the amp and just connected straight to the soundboard. Sounds like shit and really made a bad impression of him by that time for those who didn't listen to his superb and far superior tone in the Vegas bootleg.

At least the bass is proeminent in the mix. The ending in The Blues/Street of Dreams really shines with Tommy awesome lines.

I don't know if it's an issue with Rock In Rio, though. The Portugal 2006 edition was even worse - the mix was so bad that I can't even watch it anything more than Nightrain, November Rain and the Beautiful duet with Robin and Richard. They just forgot to mix the guitars there.

If they will indeed play next year's Rock in Rio here in Brazil, I only hope the crew (which I'm sure there's no relation whatsoever with the band) can get things right this time. It's about time. :P

I definitely agree with the mixing being horrible on the TV and Web broadcast of the festival in 2006. But I was there and the sound was amazing in person, such a shame the organisors fucked up the mix.

If GN'R play Rio in Brazil in 2011, I really hope somebody from the festival pays special attention to GN'Rs sound and mix. I don't really have any complaints about the sound at Rio 2001, but I have a big complaint about the Lisbon 06 footage.

All who where there knows how amazing the band sounded, and it's a big shame we don't have brilliant sound to go along with the brilliant picture.  :'(

I'm sure it was amazing there, as it was amazing for the audience on RIR 2001. It was really a problem with the sound mix of the broadcast.

yeah but not a complete world tour

Look, whatever people think about 2002 GN'R, I think it's safe to say that those members like Robin and Bucket, have paved the way for Chinese Democracy and any follow ups. I don't think you can argue with that, when you take into account all of the recent band interviews.  :D

I'm not at all discounting that Ron and DJ will be on any prospective releases, but what I'm saying is that the core structure of the songs would have been already written by the Chinese Democracy era band.

I don't see how anyone can really argue with that.  ::)

If people think Axl is going to scrap all of that recorded material in favour of brand new stuff Richard, Ron and DJ, then they are plain wrong in my humble opinion.  : ok:

A picture I made showing the 4 guitar heroes of Chinese Democracy, and it all started in 2001-2

Robin Finck, Buckethead, Ron Thal and Richard Fortus.

(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad352/leegnr/ChineseDemocracyGuitarHeroes.jpg)

Chinese Democracy Forever !!!

 :beer:

What about Paul Tobias?

I posted this in Appetite for Collection too, and I stated that I never included Paul because he wants to keep a low profile it seems. And also there aren't any high resolution photos of him I could use, these 4 musicians are very much the face and punch in the Chinese Democracy guitar attack.  ;)

But yeah, I guess if there was a real good high resolution/clear picture of him, other than Rio 2001 screenshots, and the average quality Vegas pics, I would of used them.  8)