Here Today... Gone To Hell!

A pastor in the US wants to burn copies of the Koran on 9/11 as a form of protest against terrorism (Now the plan has been put off I think).
What do you think?

Personally, I don't see the relevance. Burning the Koran will only anger a lot of Muslims, it's akin to burning the Bible. I think it's insulting and intolerant.
At the same time I don't think Muslims should be building a mosque close to Ground Zero either.

The world is going crazy.

Pale blue dot madness. 

the dangerous thing its that is a Pastor who is thinking this. cant he see the irony? 

people giving bad use of the Koran (or just using it for an excuse) are the ones using it for terrorist acts, just creating hate.

and this pastor is using his position to insult an entire religion just creating more hate.

religious figures should try to create peace and understanding between religions, not hate.

it's the usa. land of the free, home of the dumb

He has called it off. Thank goodness.

It's equally everyone else's book, and people, in the name of those infertile tyrantgods have cause much harm on humans.

Like throwing rocks at women that are like Freyja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyja)





Just let him burn it, it's his book.
-There is a lot of opression and cruelty that should be demonstrated against.

If people let fear and terror rule we will loose the foundation of our very existence.

No problem with building the mosque. Religious freedom, there are millions of Muslims in the USA and they have just as much right to build a place of worship as anyone else.

People forget that Islam isn't evil and Muslims aren't bad people. There are always crazies in every bunch, especially religion.

Burning the Qur'an is just as ridiculous as organized religion anyway so no idea how that accomplishes anything other than to show u are a fucking idiot

im gonna laugh with these religious idiots die and realize Allah is the true God and they just fucked themselves.

Burn a Koran, burn a Bible, I really don't care, it's just a book.

God/Allah ain't going to throw a lighting bolt at you. He sees beyond your faults and troubles in your mind. If you truly feel sorry for what you've done and ask for his forgivness, he'll give you that.

Why can't we just ban religion. God and Allah are just adult versions of Santa Claus

A tongue in cheek comment, but it is another reason for people to form tribes and kill each other.

i wont discuss if God is real or not, but Religions dont make people go and kill each other nor does their belives in God makes them do that.

its humans that choose to use Religion as a pretext to kill each other, ban religion and then they will find another reason.

thats what i was trying to say in the last post, religious figures are the ones that should be talking about peace and understanding and trying to teach their followers into accepting others instead of hating others.  they should study their own religions and their philosofy before opening their mouth to create more problems, not interpreting the things like they want and using it for their own agenda.

Are you a closet Muslim? :hihi:

But at that place?


I'll come to to the US and build a big, fat phallic lady above that mosque ;D

A court interdict has been sought to stop a local man from burning bibles at the Library Gardens in Johannesburg. The man planned to burn the bibles as a protest against a plan by a US pastor to burn the Islamic holy book, the Koran.

http://www.citypress.co.za/SouthAfrica/News/Court-bid-to-stop-Bible-burning-in-Johannesburg-20100910

There's already a strip club around the block (one block closer to Ground Zero).  So I've heard. 

You have a problem with them building a holy center 2 blocks from ground zero? In case you didn't know there wasn't only Christians who died on that day, people from ALL religions were killed. Would anyone care if there was a church, synagogue or a temple built there? I don't think they would.

Fuck you

Ever watch ' rick mercer's : talking with americans ' ?...... there are some VERY ignorant people in the USA..not to say there aren't just as many or more ignorant idiots in other various countries all over the world.

I don't have a problem where they build a mosque, but considering some of the families of the victims are opposed to a mosque close to Ground Zero, why are they insisting they want to build it there? Nobody is denying that they have a right to build a holy centre where ever they please, but it's about tolerance and not provoking a fight. It's the same with the burning of the Koran, intentionally done to annoy people. The obvious reason for the backlash is that people equate Islam with terrorists and while I personally do not do that, I don't know if I would be so magnanimous if someone I loved was killed in a similar way.

Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about who is opposing the building or whatever, but from what I've heard the reason it's being built there is because they own the building (or someone associated with the project does). I also may be wrong on this part but I believe there was a Mosque just 3 or 4 more blocks from where they want to build a new center?

Also while watching CNN the other night the Imam dude (cant remember his name nor would I even venture to try and spell it anyway!) said they want to have prayer spaces in the building for Christians, Jews etc. So really what's the problem?

The pastor is in New York to talk to the people constructing the building and has said that he put off the burning because they said they are not going ahead with their plans, while the Imam says nothing of the sort has been said...

Trust me i'm well aware of that, but i've been coming to this board for years, and there is always a ton of slagging on the US....

People call us stuck up, snobs, blah, blah.... But to sit and rip on Americans, when they've probably never even been, or even personally know any, shows me who the 'dumb' are


Oh and btw Rick Mercer is DREADFUL  :no:  :P

Most of it you bring on yourselves. How did that little war in Iraq go by the way? No WMDs, No Osama, no nothing.
You still want to guess why people don't like the US very much?

But that's a different topic altogether...

Not that I disagree with you about the war, but I'm guessing you're a fan of Saddam then?

No, but that old guy would have croaked in a few years without any US help anyway. He hadn't lately been causing any trouble, right? Just going about his usual dictatorial ways...
There was no need to wreck a whole country, just to get one guy. That's the US. If you don't understand it, bomb it.

Wow  ::)

What? Before you start talking about 'saving' or 'liberating' the Iraqi people, they were much better off when he was around than they are now.

You think their future was brighter with Saddam than it is now?

dude u can't rewrite history. Iraq had sanctions. they wouldn't let the officials in to inspect.

Post 9/11 we couldn't afford to take Saddam at his word that he had none. Its like the guy who is cheating on his wife and won't let her check his email...

Once we invaded and removed Saddam, it was either leave their country in turmoil or do what we are doing now. love how everyone expects this giant quick fix in Iraq. It takes time. Change isn't easy,but in the long term, the world will be a better place.

Now on topic, I am pretty sure the people building and the Muslims who will be visiting the mosque are just as opposed to the terrorist as we are. Muslims aren't the guilty party.

I completely disagree with this. That's like saying the Germans were better off when Hitler was in charge. Does that mean we should've  done nothing to stop him?

Yes muslims were the guilty party...

Not the majority, but the minority of extremists'.... And that's what the people remember....

This is the same Religion that the terrorists practiced, and unfortunately give a bad perception to all Muslims

Yes! Just because he 'didn't do any thing recently' does not take away the things he did do!

I'm not going to argue further about Iraq.


Everyone knows this, but it's not enough. Perceptions will not change overnight.

I think its the nicest way to prove that the US doesn't have anything against muslims and their religion! I do think that if i was american i would be a little bit mad, not because of the church itself but because i would expect another kind of construction other than a muslim church there

Big deal? Catholic nuns killed hundreds of Canadian aboriginal children in residential schools across Canada for years. Does that mean all catholics are bad people?

You can't hate veryone who believe in a certain faith just because a few people of that religion do some thing horrible.. it just doesn't make sense

Yeah, we pagans get this a lot with the hooked cross. God how annoying!

It's not a nazi-symbol and it was not a pagan religion that killed, nor at 9/11. It was people, and some sheeple. ;)

God dam I hate stupid people and that "event" has to be the stupidest thing I ever even heard.
How are we not gonna look like "a Christan empire taking over the world" with all the biggits we have.

9/11 is tragic but it should not be used as a day to segergate people because of religon.

I bet they wouldnt like it if there were bible burnings in Iraq or other Middle Eastern countrys.

No better whats happening today than what happened to people durring the civil rights years and even before that. People should simply learn to respect each others beleifs unless if they are radical beleifs such as killing there fellow man.

Joe

yeah i mean shit Baptists and Christians had Slavery for hundreds of years.

Religion is one giant hypocritical con designed to control people's minds.

I have to disagree there. I'm not particularly religious myself, but to say that all religion is a con or whatever just seems a bit.... short-sighted. I'm sure religion is responsible for a lot of good in the world, but that's not what usually makes the headlines. But some wacky American pastor threatening to burn some Korans becomes a worldwide story.

When there is a religion there will be raticals.
Sad but I think that's a fact.



Joe

Whether or not he was a bad guy or not is irrelevant.  Al Queda and Osama attacked us on 9/11.  Iraq/Sadamm had NOTHING to do with them.  We were told they were, we were told Iraq had WMDs.  Neither was true.  America is worse off for the Iraq war.  There is simply no denying that.  Who really gives a shit if Iraq is or not?!

As for the mosque, its a community center and it is not at ground zero.  People don't realize american muslims died on 9/11 AND there was a mosque IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!  Its a non-story being made into one by self serving politicians.

The koran burner.  A loser, idiot "pastor" who wanted attention.  The media gave it to him.  Pathetic some of our most powerful people were personally talking/calling to this nut job.

sad that we are so easily influenced by brain dead politicians, a mass media that loves to dumb things down and make nothing into something while we stick our head in the sand and ignore the real problems facing this country.

That guy is just bat shit crazy.  Sadly, more mainstream beliefs still are harmful to society, particularly this country.  Gay marriage, gays in the military are mostly opposed for religious reasons.  Creationism/intelligent design, saying no to stem cell research, is so blatantly anti-science... we are becoming a nation that is willingly, happily, being dumbed down.  Religions in other countries are the cause for tons of problems, look how women are treated in middle eastern countries.  The Israeli/Palestine conflict is b/c of religion.

The pastor certainly has had an effect. 2 dead in protests in Afghanistan and 17 dead in Kashmir... Even though it didn't actually happen. Ridiculous.

A pretty glance at all holy books.. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

But still.. The burning thing. Ramblings of an idiot made to mean something by people who's political agenda it happens to fit into.

The Dog

of course in hindsight Iraq was a terrible idea and a bad war.

However

I am trying to remember what post 9/11 was like and the hysteria. Bush allegedly was told by pretty high ranking officials that Iraq did have WMD's. So when Saddam balked at the UN inspectors and wouldn't let them do their job, it became a question of:
A: Ignore it, keep trying to get him to allow inspectors in
B: take action

Pre 9/11, its probably option A. Post 9/11, we couldn't take that chance, cause if he did have WMD's, it would've/could've been catastrophic. So I lean on the side that, I'd rather take action and not find something, then be passive and they do have them.

I still think a Democratic Iraq is great for the world as a whole and may turn out big over the next century. I use Japan as an example. Look at Japan pre and post WWII. They've become a world economic giant. Whoever thought? Iraq with their oil could do the same over the next half century but it takes time.

The cost was too high. Hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, almost all infrastructure destroyed, an impotent government installed, oil and other resources looted, infighting between various sects, re-emergence or Al Qaeda, suicide bombings in Baghdad every other week. That's just what's in the press. The ground situation will be worse. All that for checking if he had WMDs?

Iraq could never have had nuclear weapons. They never had the technology. As for whether Iraq can survive being knocked back into the stone ages, it's anybody's guess.

After 9/11, and then 7/7 almost everyone in the western world wanted war.

Don't talk crap. First of all England and the USA is not the whole western world and secondly the London bombings took place two years after the US attacked the Iraq when everybody knew that they had no WMD.
So why would almost everyone in the whole western world would have wanted war?
What you wanted was revenge and control in the middle east!

not the technology, of course not, but through nuclear proliferation they could've purchased some.

back on the Qur'an issue, I think as a nation we have become a bit cocky and lost sight of why our ancestors broke away and came here in the first place.

Religious freedom... so for us to have our rights, u have to respect other people's rights. if i want to worship satan and stand on the corner preaching Satan's virtue, people should fuck off cause its my right to practice whatever i want.

Same with immigration and everything else. People forget WE ARE IMMIGRANTS. If the Natives murdered us off the boats we wouldn't be here prospering.

Exactly, very well put D.......you know what your talking about.

I encourage all to check out "Zeitgeist" on youtube to begin the revolution.....or "Addendum"(zeitgeist2)   peace

agreed. To say other wise is disingenuous to say the least.

On 9/12, people wanted Osama.  Iraq wasn't on ANYONE's mind.  Except for Bush's.  He was itching for a reason.  Rummy even said "Afghanistan has no good targets."  Jesus, talking about why we got into Iraq and how it evolved from a hunt for WMD to a liberation is boring.  Anyone trying to argue it was a just, necessary and positive effort is just full of shit.  End of discussion.

To D's point, sorry, I disagree.  Being brutally attacked doesn't give you the reason to start a full on war with another country b/c you "suspect" they might have weapons that could harm you.  Funny how we went after Iraq when Iran and N. Korea are the ones who actually have nuclear programs! And their anti-American rhetoric is pretty high. Should we go to war with them too?  Starting a war that only pissed off our enemies and turned moderates into radicals only made us less safe.  Starting a war while lowering taxes only made us spend more and take in less. 

Osama is laughing his ass off in a cave somewhere.  He is winning this "war" - the "ground zero mosque" and book burning are evidence of that.  Along with a divided US and a huge deficit.  Americans weren't asked to sacrifice anything, no war taxes, no draft... and here we sit now, whining and crying that things are bad.  We allowed it to happen, we let it happen.  Vote Bush out in 2004 and who knows where we'd be now.  Oh wait, silly me, God forbid the gays get married though... phew, thank the lord that didn't happen back then, or else the US would be in REAL trouble...

Which leads me back to why religion is retarded...  For christ's sake, I think it's something like a 1/4 of republicans think the President of the US isn't actually a US citizen and/or is a Muslim? We're doomed.

Religious freedom is a bit murky. The pastor wasn't arrested because they say he has the freedom to do what he wants but does that include intentionally burning a book considered holy by a group of people?

I dont think thats a crime, its just a book, and you can do whatever you want anyways, hell i can grab all the holy books from all religions, join them with all the countries in the world flags and make a big barbeque with it   :rofl:

What change will that have in the world?.... People are to be blamed by their own actions and not by the actions they claim to have because others do this and that...

I can agree that what the pastor did may incite protests and things like that, since he made it public and since he was looking for that anyways... You cant say he wasnt looking to do some harm to those who believe in the Koran by doing something like that, and i can understand that some people really take it that seriously, maybe im too open minded about it, but hell if you're gonna kill people because someone has burned a book, you gotta be a fucking retard, and maybe a little bit fucked up in the head... :confused:

Sure its lack of respect... well let the pastor pay for his sins in hell, if they believe in Ala, they believe that this guy is gonna pay later for his sins, so whats the point in starting riots and religion protests...that only is gonna make it worst, even if you're that fanatic about a certain religion...

Maybe they should just enjoy a coca cola, and tell that he's a big slut, and they would like to put their balls in his mouth  :rofl:

He didnt kill anyone anyways, he murdered a book... sure it was disrespectful... but hell... i can list all kinds of disrespectful stuff that happens everyday to everyone, and i dont need to do any protests, or start any riots, i just tell them to fuck themselves and get out of my sack :hihi:

I guess I agree with what you're saying. I also appreciate the fact that while everyone from the President down condemned his actions, he wasn't arrested. Anywhere else, he would have been pre emptively put in prison for trying to cause 'communal disharmony'.

It's equally everyone else's book!




Actually pig is a holy animal, somewhat. A lot of Vanir (godgroup) symbols are desecrated.

Does that mean...?

Fine. I see your point.

The guy has the right to burn the book if he wants, I'm all for freedom to do what you want. I am only saying its stupid to do so and accomplishes nothing but causing an even bigger holy war for no other reason than this jackoff gaining publicity and notoriety.

New York is the biggest melting pot of nationalties in the world and like Obama said, it alienates millions of Muslims that are great people, people u work with, your kids go to school with. I don't agree with Obama on a lot, but he was spot on with that.

Cause if you say Muslims can't build a mosque, that is a Civil Rights issue and if u make an exception to that, it opens up a whole new can of worms. Should the Catholic churches be torn down cause a small percentage of priests molested boys? Of course not. All Stereotypes are bad and destructive under any circumstance.

The Republicans are masterminds of manipulating the huge percentage of uneducated vote. *not saying republicans are uneducated, saying they have a great way of tapping into the undecided population through fear and what ifs. Better re elect Bush or terrorists will take over the world kinda hyperbole. The whole terror level meter on the news. its all fear to control you.

my whole problem with it is, u have the jihad brainwashing youth that America is evil and they must be destroyed etc etc and showing an American burning and desecrating their Holy book will only drum up and infuriate and make for an even bigger/better recruiting tool of terrorist. it will make them feel even more justified in their actions. I think religion is kinda silly but we who think its only a book are in the HUGE minority. people strap bombs to themselves in the name of their Gods. why piss them off?

Mods: Sorry for the triple post. i have no idea how to quote multiples still! LOL!

anyhow, I don't disagree with u. Im not one of these people who are 100 percent behind Bush and what happened. I see the reasonsing behind it and can kind of see where they were coming from. I do think its shitty of Congress tothrow Bush under the bus and not own up to their own mistakes. I think the entire country jumped the gun,maybe were misled a bit but I disagree with those who say Bush was gaining revenge for his dad or in it for oil. N Korea and IRan weren't a direct threat at the time. Iraq did breach sanctions. so it wasn't a giant stretch. they could've got invaded for that lone. Sure Bush took his eye off the true target, can't deny or defend that.

Another madness that refuses to die down:

Muhammad row cartoonist 'in hiding' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11337278)

Stupid is all i can say

She gets the Darwinism award.

I think it comes down to they can legally, but they probably should not due to the repurcussions. Same thing goes for the ground zero mosque.

The Muhammad no showing his image thing has been around since the begining of that religion.
I think both though are ignorant to each other though Mr Senator.



Joe

It's legal to burn anything in a controlled environment as long as it's not physically harming anyone...but is it wise to do so?  Absolutely not.  Should media outlets bare some responsibility for giving radicals like the gentleman down in Florida this much exposure?  Yes, it's irresponsible and could have resulted in more death and destruction.  (of course, freedom of the press is important as well, I'm not disregarding that...it's why the issue is a toughie!)

as for the "Ground Zero mosque," another tough issue.  I find myself leaning in favor of allowing this because from everything I've read about this community center, there is nothing indicating that it would have anything to do with aiding terrorists or waving "a victory flag."  Heck, the locale should be easy as pie to monitor...so FBI could have a field day secretly overlooking the place. (again, ethical? debatable.)  The only loser in this whole thing was the group that sold and probably lost money on the deal.  If they played their cards right, they could have set up a "holy bidding war" with different faiths each outbidding the other until the price skyrocketed!  Another smart business person in this area should consider selling his or her business to the highest bidder.  If they are lucky, they could generate a holy bidding war, sell to the highest bidder, and retire.

p.s. and then again, I could be completely wrong!   :peace:
   

Didn't Donald Trump offer a shit load of money for this 'Ground Zero Mosque' area? Thought I read he offered the developer 3/4x his original selling price?

'Ground Zero Casino' by Trump...

This is totally off topic in a way but funny

im from a super small conservative town, and this guy had a sex shop. all the local religions boycotted it and gave the guy complete hell over it.

anyhow, this guy ends up getting arrested for something..... Low and Behold he finds Jesus in prison... He swears he found the Lord and is sorry for his sins. his indecency charges get dropped and he turns the sex shop into a Christian book store.

True Fucking story

I have gotten a lot of mileage out of jokes about that. How he now has a statue of Jesus where a giant dildo use to be.

Hilarious! :hihi:

Hahahaha!!! ;D Fucking Funny!