Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Axl Rose

On Tuesday 16th February 2010, @axlrose said:
 
Fuck!! The NY shows were insane!! Love the free form laid back vibe n' both were completely different from r view. The fans were AMAZING!! John (Varvatos) was really great! And to keep CBGB's rockin'?! Badass!! Goin' into Rose Bar was rough on some. Lotta best left memories from the old hotel. The gig helped w/some o' those. Felt really good on stage. (We actually "LIKE" playing together n' I absolutely agree some things should b a lot less complicated than others made them in the past that's why we're together n' other's by their own accord ain't here.) We all had a great time, it was a madhouse!! Thanks to everyone who came out n' those who helped put 'em 2gether. Good to have a short break n' gear up 4 South America. I LOVE NY!!

On another note Guns is now managed by Doc McGhee n' we're off to a fun start. Big welcomes! It's nice to have the support!!

Elsewhere:

Canadian tour n' Slash banned clothing nonsense: which I addressed live as soon as it happened but hey fake allegations from unreliable sources bein' negative n' all especially w/us n' these issues got more weight to n' 4 aholes. Fabricated from a 2001 bs RS piece from Rock N' Rio. Bottom line Never happened, end of story. Fuck TMZ, ContactMusic, Spinner (I got ur attitude.)

Goin' on late at Rose Bar nonsense: Nope, Nopity, Nope!! 1:30am on time! U got played!! We were asked to do a show for fans n' friends etc. We were told when to arrive n' when to play between 1 an 2am which we did exactly. We didn't perform for the press or their deadlines other than that they were there. We do our best provided we r treated in the same manner to be polite n' cordial. The past can kiss ur ass, not gonna happen here. Under other circumstances n' advance arrangements things may have been or be different, w/these shows they weren't.

Goin' on "hours" late in Toronto nonsense: Based on set change etc. went on 1 hour 8mins late w/circumstances beyond r control n' last minute physical injuries from earlier performances (which took that hour to find ways to deal with) n' could have cancelled the performance not "hrs". Apologies were made. If u have a problem w/any of that or especially if u weren't there fuck off.

Not doin' surprise shows for the hardcore fans nonsense: Sorry some feel that way. Saw a lot at both gigs singin' every word in every song. We made efforts to get several if not all fans who contacted us n' were in town into these gigs. We also didn't know most of the guests as we don't live here n' for that matter what makes some internet fan more hardcore than whoever else anyway, oh that's rt...nothing!! Some just like 2 bitch 2 bitch. So if ur complainin' n' u drink beer, today I recommend a Lucky or perhaps a Red Stripe...if ur still peeved...again, fuck off.

I sweat nonsense: On ur mama! Really? That's what u write about? No shit! I work hard, it's good for ya n' I smell better than u!!

Takin' shots at Slash n' reunions over Haiti nonsense: Never happened. Wasn't aware of any comments from the old lineup.

So in closing...Fuck the LA Times, TMZ, Contact Music n' Spinner. I don't need "forgiven" for alleged n' fabricated nonsense. I've no respect for mean spirited aholes gettin' paid talkin' shit at other's expense or irresponsible biased partisan politics wanna be journalism by dated hacks. Go on! Back ur boy! But when he says he never killed no one that ain't exactly true. Yeah, that's right, stone cold. So if we happen to play your neighborhood or for that matter anywhere at anytime regardless of the circumstances, presales, public sales, give aways, even free shows consider yourself uninvited. It's a free country but you're formally n' publicly not welcome.

Bottom line is we ain't makin' efforts to rain on ur parade why piss on or take cheap shots at r's. Oh that's rt...how u make ur livin's all that counts not others, whatever. U ain't above anyone regardless of who or what corporation u work for n' unfortunately most of u'll get to learn that the hard way.

Everyone else...

Thanks for ALL the positive comments, press n' tearin' it up w/us!! It was absolutely fucking AMAZING!! Can't wait to see u out there n' we absolutely appreciate your support!!

Thanks again 2 everyone involved n' everyone that was rockin' out 4 makin' everything SO fucking great!!

What an experience!!

Peace!!

Axl-

Wow! This is big news! Doc is a legendary manager , curious to  see what he can do with Guns brand.

Good stuff...  : ok:

So Azoff's gone?

I mean, they do the same "type" of management? Or Irving was just to release and promote Chinese and they had another management for the tours?

I don't know for sure.  I would guess that'd mean Irving is gone.  Regardless of how or why, we all owe Irving a huge Thank You for helping to get Chinese Democracy released.  At least, I think we do.

always thought Irv was kind of a temp guy to get the CD release out

Doc is a great manager, He is also Kiss' manager currently

Famous for managing Motley Crue and Bon Jovi as well

so def a great addition to GNR.

love hearing from this man :) :D ;D :smoking:

Helluva language, thanks for the updates Axl. Seems like it's all about fun now.

Hope to see some clever guy interview him. :peace:



Ok, what did I miss?

Yes... he was also manager of Skid Row

Can you guys explain a bit about this DocMcGhee? Never heard of him but must be good stuff. I hope  :nervous:

Still is, I think.

Didn't he have a fallout with Baz?

Yeah he did.  It was documented on the "Supergroup" show.  They didn't seem to get along too well during that time.  Not sure if they've made up since then.

Azoff is gone.

I'm only guessing here but maybe he is talking about Todd Crew?


Anyway it's always nice to hear from Axl. He genuinely seems to appreciate all the support from the fans and that's always awesome to see. As for all the other aholes out there, their opinion never did and never will matter anyway.

Well, it was a TV show....Don'T know what was real and what wasn't...Anyways.  good news...!

You know a few years ago I would have been upset hearing about Doc. But I have changed my mind about the guy over the years. Baz is a big part of that. Good luck too you Doc. You are probably working for the hardest band to manage. lol

When Merck was dismissed, there was an explanation as to what happened.  Will there be any comment as to what transpired with Azoff?  Just curious.

Ali

I'm a little curious myself.  Axl didn't seem to happy in Asia with the business side of things, eg. touring without management.  Wonder what went down.

Personnally, I don't give a shit.  I just want my favorite band to tour and be happy at what they do best!

little backstory on Doc


Jon Bon Jovi actually discovered Skid Row cause Dave Snake Sabo was Jon's childhood friend and played with Jon some  before he got signed

so Doc and Jon were kind of co managers of Sebastian etc

If I remember correctly, Sebastian felt Jon and Doc were ripping him off financially so Skid Row opened for Bon Jovi at the Giants Stadium show back in 89 and baz sort of let his feelings be known with the arrangement etc


Doc claimed on Supergroup show that Baz got plenty of money only he was frivolous with it etc.
Here is the great news

with Doc on board, we are almost guaranteed to get US dates right Fernando?

Downside is we probably don't get the GNR - Van Halen tour.  I'd give up an appendage to see that!

I thought the Van Halen thing was over a long time ago....

this is very interesting though.. good to see an Axl post!

I really love the way Axl's use twitter. I mean as a blog or something  like that. Love the way he cares for his fans and explain every stupid rumor. He seems happy than ever!! I'm glad I'm gonna see him not just in Chile (my country) but Argentina too... can,t wait!!!

It doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things.  But, I'm just curious being as though Axl commented when Merck was dismissed.  Will we get any comment this time?

Ali

In regards to the tweet from Axl "On Tuesday 16th February 2010, @axlrose"


Once again I really must say congratulations to Mr. Rose for refusing to engage in the negativity and libelous, slanderous rubbish that is constantly and consistently trotted out by so called "media", so called "fans" and parasites in general.

Bravo and WELL DONE (very well done!), Mr. Rose!!!

It never ceases to amaze me how some people so easily revert to pure mendacity -- with utterly no compunction!

In fact, it seems that this same group of "misery loves company" defamers are always waiting in the wing, salivating on Pavlovian cue,
ready to pounce and say or do just about anything to instigate trouble or negativity with Axl and Guns N' Roses (no matter how ludicrous and patently false).

Mr. Rose, you and the GN'R family are class acts. You continually show by example that you will not engage and sink to the levels of these pathetic cowards. Well done!!!!!


dreamer girl  : ok:  :)

GUNS N' ROSES Frontman Hires KISS Manager, Slams 'Mean-Spirited A-Holes' - Feb. 16, 2010

GUNS N' ROSES frontman Axl Rose has posted the following message on his Twitter profile:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=135260

Wow, great to hear from Axl .. that is probably longest tweet ever .. fucking amazing .. thanx Axl ..

btw. would like to take this opportunity to thank the band, crew, Fernando & Jarmo (Adz also) and everyone else that kept us updated during this great times as I was away for few days ..

Enjoy the NEXT shows and keep them coming !!



.. veljco

Well, so long as they're out there doing what they do, no worries.

from now on i think all negativity should get the `Nopity nope` this tour is gunna b lots of fun  ;D a uk show please

gotta love axl good job attacking the press axl :hihi:

That marathon of a tweet really contained a mountain of information. However, as usual, Axl expects you to have a certain amount of background information which leaves the reader at a loss if they do not have that. For my part the stone cold dead bit left me wondering. Can anyone explain that a bit more? I'm also curious who was injured in Toronto... As for our Doc character, the guy has been boiled in so many brews that he should be fit to manage his new job. If he can't do it, I wonder if anybody can.

But the best part was to get yet another confirmation as to how much fun the band has and how they actually like each other and what they are doing. That makes at least two band members publicly showing their love  - hope it's mutual for all of them and that this line up will stick together and not just perform but also write music together. I have great faith in their abilities and feel both excited and even a bit scared thinking what they might come up with. It almost feels like there is some magic involved, you can sense that something special is going on even just looking at the pictures, not to mention all the footage.

I don't get the thing with Todd Crew. Who he says killed him?

Some people think Axl is referring to the Slash/Todd Crew Thing. (im not so sure)

Todd Crew overdosed on drugs while with Slash.

Can't see how Slash killed him though, unless he lied in his book and in reality, he strapped Todd down and injected drugs into him. 

Anyone who overdoses on drugs does it on their own accord.

I wonder if the departure of Azoff and the CD re-release are related in some way. I mean, it looks like the CD re-release could have been the first McGhee big move with the band.

How bout some gnr lunchboxes :rofl: or bumblefoot  :rofl:

I think he means the big companies (TMZ etc) backing the journalist (boy) in order to print the statements.

I don't think so. It could be related that Azoff's contract has the same timeline that the Best Buy deal

I quite forgot that incident. Agreed that one is responsible for one's own actions but I remember thinking while I read the account in the book that perhaps acquiring proper medical care would have made a difference to the outcome, so in a sense everybody who was present, S. included, is to a degree accountable.

I don't see 'other members' and 'killed' in the same sentence or even paragraph anywhere, especially I don't see Todd Crew mentioned anywhere, so don't make up things that are not written ..





.. veljco

why do people assume he`s always talking about slash it was written in the context of the journalists also why dissect every word he writes as if there's a secret meaning behind them Axls pretty honest if he has something to say he wouldn`t do it in a coded term he`d say it  loud and clear stop raking up the past enjoy the now :smoking:

I definitely don't want to start any sh** but I did not understand what that part of the tweet was saying and was curious if anybody knew. One theory is being discussed. What did you others think that portion of the tweet meant? The rest made sense but this part did not to me.

Yeah agree with this, if Axl wanted to say something, I think he track record shows that he would just say it. You shouldn't put two and two together and get five.

Just enjoy that the band are kicking ass, are happy so will hopefully keep touring and fingers crossed release more music and that we are hearing from Axl directly.

Maybe I understood him wrong, but if you're talking about this part:

"So in closing...Fuck the LA Times, TMZ, Contact Music n' Spinner. I don't need "forgiven" for alleged n' fabricated nonsense. I've no respect for mean spirited aholes gettin' paid talkin' shit at other's expense or irresponsible biased partisan politics wanna be journalism by dated hacks. Go on! Back ur boy! But when he says he never killed no one that ain't exactly true. Yeah, that's right, stone cold. So if we happen to play your neighborhood or for that matter anywhere at anytime regardless of the circumstances, presales, public sales, give aways, even free shows consider yourself uninvited. It's a free country but you're formally n' publicly not welcome."

I just think Axl talks about bad journalism, journalists who have an agenda, who back someone up even though he did something wrong (especially politicians...), I think it was just metaphoric when he said "never killed no one...". I really don't think he was talking about Todd Crew, or Slash or anyone like that. Just my opinion though. ;)

I agree, I don't think he was talking about an actual death.  One theory that was floated around that sounded feasible was possibly he was talking about Slash and the "death" of the original lineup.  But I like your theory better.  We always read too much into these things and inevitably always think he must be talking about Slash.  But like someone said before, he hasn't ever been shy to speak out about Slash.  He doesn't go around speaking in codes about him.  If he wanted to say something about him, he'd say it.  So yeah, most likely he was just talking about the media.

Your both most likely right but in fairness, if he was referring to Todd, he might code a message like that.  its quite a big deal to make accusations like that. 

But id say its just Axl ranting and no harm was meant.  (to the Slash Theory)

To be honest, I think Axl has a lot of respect for Todd and all, but I highly doubt he even thinks about him when he writes something about some journalists and "irresponsible biased partisan politics" people... I really don't see the debate here.

I think some fans overanalyze everthing Axl says. He just rants about press and all, for the most part, and he's right, because most articles about surprise shows have been lame. Don't know about their "biased partisan politics" agenda though, but why not. ;D

I don't want to be someone who reads too much into this kind of stuff (maybe I am).   To me, though, it seems like this could be pretty clear ... there's no coded message.  Partisan politics in the media?  Obviously he's not referring actual politics, he's referring to Guns N' Roses/Axl media coverage.

What else does "go on back your boy" mean?  If he doesn't literally mean "backing someone" (and we all know how the media has been respectively towards Axl - "not their boy" and Slash - "their boy"), then I'd argue the "coded message" angle points more towards the notion that he doesn't mean Slash.  "Backing Slash" means enforcing the narrative of Axl being what he's most often accused of being, an egotistical jerk, which is the narrative that Slash and co started.  The most obvious and clear reading is that it means Slash....  not so sure about Todd Crew, but who knows.

And please, if someone knows better than I, tell me to shove it.  : ok:

I was looking at Doc's profile on Wiki-he's managing maybe 4 or 5 bands-Night Ranger is the only one I'm familiar with-the Kiss machine just kind of goes on it's own-they just put an album out last year, so I don't think Doc has a ton on his plate, which is good-just from Supergroup on VH1 he seemed like a down to earth guy to me-he's kind of seen it all, obviously the music business has changed so much-he was funny when he cracked on the 1st song from the guys in supergroup when he said it sounded dated-Baz seems like a great guy and can rock, but Doc was right about some of the things he said on the show, I think

I wonder what could happen with Azoff...

Agree. In this part,  I think, Axl talks about journalists, maybe these kind of journalists who spread rumours without take the time to check if it's right or wrong, or if they could hurts people.

I'm not saying that's what he meant, for all I know he could be talking about anything! If he was talkign about someone actually being killed though (and again I'm not saying he was) than the Todd Crew thing was one possible explanation as one of Todd's former band mates gave an interview a few years ago saying Slash was responsible for Todd's death. Again though I'm not saying that's what Axl was talking about for sure.

I don't know what really occurred, since I wasn't there.  I don't know what Slash did, or didn't do, and I'm not going to even engage in any conjecture.

That being said:

There's murder and there's homicide.  You don't have to strap someone down and inject them with drugs to commit negligent homicide.  Maybe Axl is referring to something like that.....that he thinks/knows/suspects/whatever that Slash played some part in Todd's demise.

This is the statement:

"I've no respect for mean spirited aholes gettin' paid talkin' shit at other's expense or irresponsible biased partisan politics wanna be journalism by dated hacks. Go on! Back ur boy! But when he says he never killed no one that ain't exactly true. Yeah, that's right, stone cold.
"

The obvious inference is that many of the media outlets (and specifically those mentioned)  back Slash in the "political battle" waged between the two....and that is much of the reasoning/motivation behind the sometimes negative slant of the press GNR receives from certain outlets.

It doesn't take much "reading between the lines" to take Axl's meaning....just an understanding of the history of the band, and of some of the coverage of HIM by certain media outlets.

I'm not saying he's right, here (as, again, I can't even begin to guess at those outlet's motivations).  But that seems to be the point he's trying to make.

If not, it was an incredibly bad analogy and a poor choice of words, all things considered.

Given Axl's gift for lyrics (and for not being afraid to speak his mind in favor of maintaining political correctness...something I really admire about him), I think the obvious meaning...the one most of us are getting from that bit...is likely the right one.  Maybe not.  But the prose would certainly lead you to that conclusion.  We'll see if he ever chooses to clarify.....

I don't know much about laws etc for that kind of thing, but its not your fault if someone takes drugs and overdoses.  Actually, Slash even admitted to giving Todd a small dose.

Apparently he went off with some others for awhile and Slash reckons they gave him a bigger dose.

i don't know all the details, but i do know that every human being makes there own choices and no human being is responsible for the choices made by others.  The Todd thing sounded like a real bad situation.  Tragic.

I agree pilferk. My first reaction: 'was Slash involved in the death of another human being?'  I think specifically this could be a veiled shot at the Todd Crew death and how it was represented in Slash's autobiography. There were one or two anonymous posters who were close to the band at the time (corroborated by corrections in timing, names, places which Slash messed up in the book) who directly said that Crew's death was not accurately described and was a BIG deal.

Personally, I can't wrap my head around Axl speaking that metaphorically about the death of the band or himself from Slash's actions. I think there is no doubt that 'ur boy' is Slash. The next sentence is just an IED ready to pop. I dunno....sounds quite to the point to me.

I suppose that Azoff is way too busy to properly manage Guns N Roses, since he became Chairman and CEO of the new company Ticketmaster Entertainment.

There is a lot of gray area in Slash's description and it is impossible for any of us to know the truth.

Taken at face value, Axl may have implied that he does know.

http://www.bringbackglam.com/journal/2007/11/25/billy-rowe-talks-the-glam-years.html

This is the interview I'm talking about. Billy specifically says Slash was responsible for what happened to Todd.

The difference is this:

Slash's account and "other" accounts differ, wildly.  Again, not knowing what really happened...I don't know who would be liable for what.

http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=29076.0

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=31210

IF (and that's a big if) some of the accusations in the above recountings were true....well, you can see where this all would come from.

Alot of people really do overanalyze alot of what Axl says.  :hihi: Take heart though, I read somewhere that people who overanalyze things have a much lesser incidence of Alzheimer's disease. :)

axl just added this:

Axl Rose

On Wednesday 17th February 2010, @axlrose said:


reply

Correction: In rereading I realized I addressed the clothing nonsense as soon as I was made aware not when it 1st happened, my bad. I tend to avoid media n' the net when touring so as not to have whatever negative nonsense or those tryin' 2 stir trouble interfere w/either the show or time needed elsewhere in prep as well as other GNR business. Too much goin' on to b throwin' sand in some idiot's sandbox. Also my comments aren't based on these relatively minor issues they go a fair way back w/each of those mentioned n' unfortunately several others. We aren't lookin' 4 free rides or handouts, give those to those u been but if ya wanna play nice we can too in fact we'd love to. Can't say we didn't make the effort. Peace!!

Slash is just one big fat fucking jerk

Wasn't Azoff a good manager though?

Define "good".

Given his other job duties, which I can only guess are taking an awful lot of his time, I suspect he was unable to really dedicate himself to the task at hand.  That's not meant to make excuses for what he did (or didn't do) but it's a simple fact.

In addition, I've always thought it was a bit of a conflict of interests:  Managing a band and being the CEO of Ticketmaster.

As a band's manager, you're looking to get them the best deal, possible, on ticket sales.

As the CEO of Ticketmaster, you're looking to get the best deal, possible, for ticket sales.

How do you reconcile those two, exactly?  Granted, TM usually is working directly with a promoter, who's then working with the band's manager.

But when you're filling two (and, potentially, all 3) of those roles......???  Someone has to be your ultimate "master".

I personally think they are bitter that Guns got so big and they didnt.  Why ask Guns for an intervention when they had fired him.
Clearly none of them were present that day and the guy made his own choice to take the drugs.

Has anyone here ever been with a friend on a crazy depressed binge?  Its quite difficult to stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4x8Kvf-HA

i didnt know that, did he have a depression or something?

 

Maybe....I don't know.  But...I'd expect that almost 20 years later that ship would have sailed, no?  They didn't comment on this issue until Slash' book came out and someone asked them about it.  It's not like, at the time, they were making waves about it.


Because they cared about Todd and it wasn't just about business?

You're right, none of them were there that day.  But then, neither were either of us.  Slash was.  Axl was (peripherally, at least, if I remember the story right).  

We know there have been other differing accounts (as noted by killingvector) that say Slash's account wasn't exactly what happened.  Jetboy seems to have gotten some of that same info.

I don't know what really happened.  You don't know what really happened.

But from the accounts we have, you can certainly see where Axl's inference came from.  Whether we think it's  true or not is beside the point, and something we'll never know.  All you have to acknowledge is that AXL might (with good reason, maybe) THINK it's true.


At the point they pass out and are bascially clinically dead, it's pretty easy to intervene.  You call 911.  You DEFINITELY don't revive them, put them to bed, and leave them unattended.  And you don't, personally, shoot them up (twice??).  At least not if you don't want to shoulder responsibility for what happens afterwards.

I want to be uber-clear:  I don't KNOW that's what happened.  But that's what at least one account we have claims happened....

Todd?

He was depressed over a break up with a long time girlfriend.

I don't know and have never heard about anything else....

i don't know the truth either.  But Slash was very young and probably somewhat naive himself.  Had he of told Todd to bugger off earlier in the day, god knows what would have happened anyways.

If you love talking about any former members of the band, you can do say in the right section.




/jarmo

It was just a little off topic question, sorry about that

A little off topic isn't usually a problem. It's when the focus changes when it can be a problem.

Like in this case 99% of the letter is ignored in favor for speculation of a tiny part..




/jarmo

I think that's more because the rest of the statement is 100% clear (and, for the record, I back him 100% in those comments) , and this part isn't, necessarily, as clear.  At least, that's it for me.

But, while I disagree that it's off topic (because Axl essentially brought it up in the statement we're discussing), I'm perfectly willing and able to abandon discussion of the "tiny part" in deference to the forum moderator/owner.

:)

The issue isn't really about trying to figure out what it means, it's the whole discussion that follows.

I don't really care about what any "biography" said in 2007 at this point. We had that discussion then....



/jarmo

Fair enough.

I think to "figure out what it means", you sort of have to follow the discussion to it's logical conclusion, which involves the things you've now said you prefer we don't discuss in this thread.  It's kinda circular, unfortunately.

So...we (or at least I) won't.  No harm, no foul.   : ok:

az off when? :D

I don't know what happened with Azoff, but I'm not interested in dwelling on it either.

The only thing I know about Doc Mcghee is that he has managed Kiss and he was involved with Supergroup the show in which Sebastian Bach also appeared in.

But I know that Axl has made this decision, and that's all it takes for me to trust in it. Axl knows what he wants and who can take him there, so lets look forward to the exciting times ahead.   :peace:


Lee

I'm not sure why we even suspect it was a contentious parting of the ways.   I mean...MAYBE it was, but Axl's not been shy about addressing the failings of management in the past.  But no real rancor here...just the announcement of a new manager.

I think that, likely, Azoff's position as CEO of TM pretty much eliminated his ability to manage the band.  I would imagine that Axl and the band weren't  too skippy about it, but they can be frustrated and still understand the how's and why's.  I'd say it's at least somewhat likely that the band just told Azoff that, given his lack of time to dedicate to the band, they were going to find new management, and he was probably OK with that (maybe even a bit relieved).  Alternately, maybe,, when he got his promotion, he told them he'd no longer have time to manage them and just sort of did what he could until they found new representation. 

They may have actually AMICABLY parted ways (or at least somewhat amicably).  :)

This is awesome.  My brother worked with Doc to put the KISS visa card out.  Said it was a great experience and that Doc is a class act.

I agree, that's how I took it too.  It must be frustrating when the media just get it wrong.

And if I were Harvey Levin...I wouldn't show up at a show anytime soon.  :hihi:

Heh...maybe we can get him to go to a show, sit in the front row, and that will spur on an epic rendition of "Get in the Ring"??!!

Hope we can get some clarification on the whole back ur boy thing because the speculation is ridiculous.  Bottom line is, if you don't want rumors to start or people to talk shit about stuff when they don't know what they're talking about, you shouldn't put cryptic messages out there.  I appreciate Axl's candor and loved this last blog, but for someone who is clearly sensitive to false rumors, he should be more careful about what he says. 

With all due respect, anyone who jumps to the conclusion that Axl is talking about Slash in that part of his tweet is as much if not more at fault for making factually baseless assumptions than Axl is for being cryptic.  It goes both ways to me.  People have to exercise good judgment and look at the facts.  Like with the whole Haiti reunion-Slash issue.  Slash never said he was interested in reuniting the band for Haitian Earthquake Relief.  Axl doesn't follow anyone on Twitter and made no direct reference to Slash in his tweet on the subject.  So, really, there was no factual basis to assume Axl was taking a shot at Slash.

But, yes, to eliminate any possibility of misguided speculation to leading to blatantly false rumors, being crystal clear would help.  But, that won't always happen and the public has to use better judgment and, frankly, more logical thought when looking at what he says.

Ali

a double negative is a bit confusing.
im of this opinion. and i read it as their boy isn't innocent or honest.


so Doc McGhee was a manager of the band before?

No, the caption says "Manager" because that is his profession. They didn't mean GNR manager.

Also, let's hope Axl has either seen that video or doesn't see it in the future. Doc wasn't exactly flattering there.

Like I've said before, everything has at least one reason....

It's amusing reading the bullshit comments from people who have no idea and just buy the idea that Axl makes people wait on purpose.


How often do you hear people actually acknowledge the fact that their moaning was out of line? Not very often.





/jarmo

Great new's glad Axl and Gun's have management ! seems like they are constantly stuck in bad situations due to their past managers.

oh ok.  because the caption says "band manager" and he talks about the frontman, i had to ask.

Since you obviously disagree...maybe you can explain, word by word, how the semantics lead you to another conclusion.  And please, feel free to point out exactly how we're misreading what's written, since those who are coming to the conclusion we are are so obviously misconsturing the words written.

Or, ya know, you could just admit that it's vague enough to lead reasonable people to two completely different, reasonable conclusions. :)

With all due respect, of course......

Look guys, please don't argue about vague details in what Axl says. Just read Axl's tweets and take them for what they are, which is an artist good enough to update fans on their activities or their opinions on certain subjects. The moment we start micro analyzing everything Axl says is exactly what pisses him off, and rightly so.  ::)

Lets start discussing what this threads about, which is GN'R's new manager Doc McGhee. I'm interested to know everyones opinions on what you feel he can bring to the band considering his past acheivements.


Lee

The point is that I don't see how you can draw ANY conclusion given that his comment is so vague.  While I agree it would be best to have more clarity in what was originally said, or have a follow-up comment from Axl to clarify his statement now, you have a choice as the reader of his statement.  You can choose to indulge in what at this time can only be deemed as idle speculation without any real solid factual basis, or you can simply say "I honestly have no idea what he's talking about there" and move on.  Not that there is anything wrong with speculating and wondering what he meant, but we all need to own the fact that we are making assumptions about what he meant instead of actually knowing what he meant.  That's a valid alternative to saying Axl is responsible for being 100% crystal clear about everything he says.  Frankly, that can never happen.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how an assumption that he's talking about Slash being responsible for Todd Crew's death is all that reasonable.  The sentences immediately preceding his remark are about the media ("So in closing...Fuck the LA Times, TMZ, Contact Music n' Spinner. I don't need "forgiven" for alleged n' fabricated nonsense. I've no respect for mean spirited aholes gettin' paid talkin' shit at other's expense or irresponsible biased partisan politics wanna be journalism by dated hacks") and the only time Slash was mentioned was in refuting rumors that he was taking a shot at Slash for suggesting a GN'R reunion for Haitian relief and that he banned Slash apparel.  Also, it seems very clear to me that the sentences following are again referring to certain media members ("So if we happen to play your neighborhood or for that matter anywhere at anytime regardless of the circumstances, presales, public sales, give aways, even free shows consider yourself uninvited. It's a free country but you're formally n' publicly not welcome").  In the contest of those other remarks, it seems highly unlikely that he's talking about Slash and/or Todd Crew.

Basically, I agree with Will and FunkyMonkey that it is most likely not about Slash given the context of the remarks, but no complete conclusions as to what he IS talking about can really be drawn given the vagueness of the comment.  Certainly, I don't see any real reason, ESPECIALLY given the context of the remarks to think he's talking Slash and Todd Crew.  And, I think it is exactly this type of idle speculation that led to Axl having to clarify that he wasn't taking a shot at Slash for suggesting a GN'R reunion for Haitian relief.

Yeah, I get that this is a message board and people discuss things.  But, we do have the option of taking a step back and saying, "You know what?  It could very well be, if not highly likely, that he isn't talking about Slash and Todd Crew at all.  It really isn't clear what he's talking about from the words themselves, but if you look at the context, it is a very strong possibility we're mistaken.  Let's just keep that in mind."

Ali

I strongly agree with Ali on this

Who said "he never killed" who?  ::)

I remember seeing Doc McGhee on the "Supergroup" show. He said he met Baz when he was something like 16 years old and that he's still the same as he was back then -- "High RPM, low IQ". I love Sebastian, but I still thought that was a funny comment. Seemed to me that he liked Sebastian, but that he was quite a bit to handle as a manager.

I think he was talking about Slash for sure... not necessarily killed as in literal terms but he said "Defend yo boy" which is Slash who the media love  and always take his side etc.

Doc McGhee being the manager makes it a lock IMO that GNR will stay super active. Doc is known for really pushing bands to tour etc

True....but that coule be his downfall in Gn'R's world. Manager or no manager Axl and the band are gonna do what they want, on their terms.

Ok, I get it, we've just about analyzed this bit to death, so I'm just gonna add this one little bit. What got me confused is the change in case, from talking generally of press into talking of "him". "But when he says he never killed no one that ain't exactly true." It sounds like he talks about someone specific, not about the press collectively. Makes me curious to know who the "he" is, but I understand that there is no clear answer based on the info that we have, so I guess I'll not speculate on that but I do believe the text refers to someone specific.

"But when he says he never killed no one that ain't exactly true."

So did he kill no one or never kill anyone?

 ::)  ::)

Improper grammar and the usage of double negatives are all the rage within the tough crowd these days.

Thanks.  Because you basiclly proved my point.  You can't "prove" that you're any more correct than those of a differing opinion.  which IS rather the point.

There are two possible things we can dio with that bit:

Ignore it.

Try to figure out what he meant.

You can interpret it/use it any way you want...I have no issue with that.

But sitting there and bagging on other people who interpret it differently is hypocrisy of the highest order.  We're speculating no less than you are, with no more shaky of a foundation.

The fact is, the press entities mentioned have shown a pretty remarkable point of view (which we've been asked not to discuss in this thread).  Look back at some of the articles they've floated.  YOU might not reasonably see the conclusion being found by others, but that doesn't mean the conclusion's not there to be found.  It's not like I spent a whole lot of time analyzing this from theget go, or "reading into" it.  It was my first, gut, impression reading it...THEN I went back to refresh my memory.

Either Axl meant what some people think he did, or he chose a very poor analogy and words, considering the entities, situation, etc..  I allow for both options here, but I think it's a bit short sighted to ignore one and latch firmly on the other with such conviction....and then go on to tell everyone else they shouldn't do what you just did, but come to a different conclusion.

Pilferk, you completely missed the point of my original post it seems, and I'll reiterate that later.  That seems to have lead to this sidebar here.  But, to be clear, I never "bagged" on people who interpret Axl's statement differently.  It seems you took something as an attack which was not.  I merely stated my opinion, just like you stated yours, that I don't agree with your interpretation of what he said and furthermore think it's going out on quite a shaky limb. I wasn't making a statement of fact, never saying that I could "prove" my opinion, either.  I just stated my opinion, without prefacing it with the words "in my opinion", but I don't think it's necessary to do that on a discussion forum.  I think that's just implicit that people are stating their opinions.  Apparently, I'm mistaken in that regard.  And, my OPINION is that taken out of context, yes, perhaps there is a chance that Axl is referring to Todd Crew's death.  But, Axl's words came in a context of discussing the media. And in that context, my opinion is that it is not reasonable to think he's talking about Todd Crew.  Again, only my opinion and reaction to the opinion stated by others.

But, that wasn't my point, originally.  My point was as much as people want to hold Axl accountable for being clear in his statements to avoid misinterpretation of his words, WE as fans and readers of his statements need to exercise good judgment in reading what he writes and be honest when it isn't clear what he's saying.  WE have a choice in that regard.

Anyway, this is about Doc McGhee managing Guns now, not anything else.  Sorry for the sidebar, Jarmo and co.


Ali

Manager of Motley Crue and Bon Jovi?

Is it April 1st already?


I remember this dude from the supergroup show. He is a big douche. All McG's are. Please go ahead. I defy any of you to name one McG that isn't a big fucking douche. Nice move GN'R. You went out and hired a McG (and don't even try giving me a lesson in pronunciation. This dude is what he is). Ugh...

I think YOU'RE missing the point.

Read the very first paragraph you wrote, above.

Then witness that you, in fact, draw your own conclusion (that it's not the person in question).

See where I"m going, here?

You either think it's way too vague, and thus no conclusion can be drawn, because doing so engages in idle speculation...and so we shouldn't even discuss it.

Or you don't, at which point either of the two conclusions are valid.... since both are based on just as equal parts idle speculation.  My subsequent posts are meant to demonstrate THAT fact.

I respect that you draw a different conclusion.  No problem there.

But the "You shouldn't/couldn't/wouldn't draw a conclusion because it's speculating"  chiding then jumping to  drawing your own conclusion based on speculation and poo pooing the alternate one seems like a pretty massive bit of juxtoposition, no?  It sure reads that way.

Yes, we're all speculating.  I think I've said that in the original posts I made....nobody is in Axl's head, so that's all we got.  But it's not like we're reading private correspondance, here.  It was a message to the fans (that is, you and me), so there has to be some expectation of comprehension, no?  You base comprehension on your own interpretation and knowledge, no?

So I don't think there's any issue (besides the objection jarmo raised, that is) with doing exactly what you purport probably shouldn't be done (but then go on to do yourself).

One other point:  The fact of the matter is..the onus is on the author to get his point across, clearly.  That's true if it's Axl, you, me, or little Johnny writing his "What I did over Summer Vacation" thesis.  The reader gets what the author gives.  If there's a misunderstanding here (and I can certainly see clear that there might be one) it's because Axl (likely unknowingly) used an unfortunate analogy given the entities involved and their past contributions.   The fact it CAN be interpreted the way it has, by some people, demonstrates that.

I do think you DID in fact miss the point of my original post, latching on to part of what I said instead of the overall meaning.  That is what started this little sidebar here, but oh well, it's already done.

Again, trying to be 100% clear because I admit I have not been as much as I could up until now:  I have not drawn any 100%, set in stone conclusion based on what Axl said.  In fact, I said in a previous post, "Basically, I agree with Will and FunkyMonkey that it is most likely not about Slash given the context of the remarks, but no complete conclusions as to what he IS talking about can really be drawn given the vagueness of the comment."  My working hypothesis at this point, one which I strongly believe in, is that it is not about Todd Crew given the context of the remarks.  Can I conclude that beyond any shadow of a doubt?  No, not without further clarification from Axl.  Is it possible he is talking about Todd Crew?  Yes.  Do I believe that it likely is?  No, that is not my personal belief (belief, not conclusion).  I don't see disagreeing with the other hypothesis as "poo pooing" it, either.  It's just a disagreement.

If you look at my original post that you quoted, I used the phrase "jumps to conclusion" as in someone stating and believing beyond any shadow of a doubt that Axl was talking about Todd Crew.  THAT is what I have issue with.  On another board, with the whole Slash-reunion for Haitian relief issue, people seemed to conclude, as in it was irrefutable and inarguable to them, that Axl was taking a shot Slash for suggesting GN'R should reunite for Haitian earthquake relief.  My issue was not with presenting a working hypothesis.  It was with "jumping to a conclusion" as if it is 100% clear and inarguable and stating it as such.

In retrospect, it seems perhaps that you were just tossing out a possibility, a working hypothesis of your own, and I misinterpreted it as a firm conclusion that had been drawn.  I apologize if that is the case.

Ali

Since I've no issue with you having an alternate POV, I addressed the piece of the original post I thought needed adressing, rather than the conclusion you drew based on your own speculation.


Read back what I wrote, and you'll see lots of this:


with lots of "I think", "likely" and "maybe" thrown in for good measure.

I don't know how to hedge any more clearly than that.....

Well, then, I apologize for making it sound you were stating an irrefutable fact/100% conclusion, Pilferk.  But, to be fair, my original post quoted someone else, not you, and I never meant it to be directed to you specifically.

Let's move on.

Ali

 Largely, I'm begining to wonder if the disconnect here is one of language.

Drawing a conclusion is pretty much a synonym for forming an opinion.  A conclusion is, strictly, an inference based on premises.  It's not a finding of fact.  In the scientific method (and, professional hazard, that's my habitat), your conclusion is what you HOPED to prove or what you THINK has occured when studying preceeding research/experiments...it's your theory.  Those conclusions may, or may not, turn out to be fact after further study (or repeated/related experimentation).

But yes...lets move on.   : ok:

Yes, I think you're right.  The disconnect here is one of language.  The issue of declaring irrefutable fact vs. working hypothesis and opinion was muddied by semantics.  : ok:

Doc McGhee everyone.  What do you think he can do for GN'R?   :hihi:

Ali

I think it's a pretty good move, actually.

I suspect Azoff was more than "distracted" with his duties with TM....I think he did pretty well right up until Front Line was purchased by TM, and he changed roles.  Then, I suspect he was completely indoctrinated into his TM duties, with little actual time left to do anything else.

I think McGhee has a proven track record with established, big name, acts.  He's done a pretty good job with Kiss, and he was with both Crue and Bon Jovi during their rise to stardom.  That's a decent resume.  In addition, he's stayed active and current with other acts.

GnR is in a somewhat weird place.  They're not really a nostalgia act, touring on past laurels.  They're not the biggest band in the world, anymore, either.  They're touring on new material after a LONG period of (relative, now....we fans know otherwise) inactivity.  It's almost like both building a new band AND working with an established act.  McGhee has done both, and isn't new to the scene.  In addition, I expect he'll be very hands on, rather than delegating duties to "office staff".   I think Axl and the crew both need that, and like that style of management. It's what Doug Goldstein did, back in the day...even once he was running BFG...and it's what Merck did (GnR was REALLY his only client while he was also CEO of Sanctuary), too..though I suppose you can argue effectiveness on that one.

I think it has the potential to turn out well.   I think Doc is going to have to realize what GnR need from him, and what they don't...and be content in that role.   He's going to need to learn when he can push and when he needs to fade into the wood work and let GnR be GnR (and, consequently, let Axl be Axl).  By the same token, he can't let them use him as a doormat, though.  Of course, the only way that's gonna happen is if he steps right into the fray and earns the bands/Axl's respect.  I think he can do that...

McGhee hasn't managed Motley Crue or Bon Jovi in a long time.....let's keep that in mind. So any recent touring success they've had isn't exactly his creation.

But he does seem like somebody who won't be a yesman or a doormat, which means he'll be promptly fired at the first bump in the road.  :hihi:

Doc has passion, if he want something to be seen around the world he has a reason.

People wanna see Axl, and the band isn't that bad either. :peace:

Now with DJ Asbha they reach out to a younger mainstream audience too.

True.  It's been awhile, yes.  But he managed both bands during the height of their run...when they were HUGE acts. 

So while any recent success (or failure) might not be attributable to him, their run UP to the big success....that he was involved with.

and yet you don't wonder why the band keeps picking those who don't seem to be yes man.


its not that important i guess. the double negative is perhaps because it isn't exactly referring to any real person's death (or survival) in particular, scrupulous care isn't required there.

we all know the closeness of 'hack' n 'slash' and none of which is most innocent or honest. i dont see anything shocking if that is mentioned again there.

Alternatively, i think the bit can be read as
they (the media) come to u pretending as your biggest supporters (Back ur boy!) and when you tell the truth that isn't sensational enough (But when he says he never killed no one), they don't listen (that ain't exactly true.) like who cares, you're so boring and disappointing. (Yeah, that's right, stone cold.).

still, imo the former reading looks more natural and fitting. isn't corrected in the follow-up either.

either way i believe the focus is on the media hypocrisy.

Every band Doc managed for the most part has become the biggest band in the world.

Motley,Bon Jovi etc

Jon fired him cause he wouldn't listen when the band said they were burnt out and done and kept booking shows! LOL

so thats why I say GNR will stay super busy

I hope that most of you took my remark as a joke, if not, well...
I'm just glad that Axl is speaking, just as I love how consequently some board members analyze every sentence, word for word. It's what makes this site so great.
 :beer:

Nice to hear all the news in Axl's recent post.  Very cool. 

On a little side note about the "killing" comment.  The commandment in the Bible has two meanings. 1. Not to physically kill anyone.  and 2. Not to kill anyone's good reputation by spreading lies about them. (This is considered just as bad as physically killing someone.) Something that I picked up on in an Old Testament course I've taken.  To whom he is referring to?  I don't know, but the person it is directed towards probably does.  ;)

On a lighter note.  Axl, can I come to the next surprise show in the NYC area?  :)

I really don't think Axl wants us micro analyzing his every word. Thats how rumours begin, with people thinking they know the exact meaning of what was said.

In the words of Axl in Used To Love Her, " Take it for what it is ".

Which is a truly talented artist good enough to communicate with us via twitter. To have Axl posting little updates via twitter was almost unimaginable 6 months ago. Lets just be thankful about that, and lets not discuss for pages whether Axl meant that a certain somebody actually killed someone.  ::)


Lee

Isn't this tha same guy that ripped Skid Row off for all their royalties?  I dont think this is a good move. :nervous:

I thought that was Jon Bon Jovi.

Not really:

http://www.musicmight.com/artist/united+states/new+jersey/toms+river/skid+row



He was their manager at the time, but the band could only get a deal if it was apparent that Bon Jovi was assisting them in certain aspects of their music.  So they needed the deal with Underground Music to get a label deal.  From the reports I've read, Doc made it VERY clear to the band what they were signing...but they were sort of stuck. 

So ehm.

When is this guy going to do his Job? or has he been fired already???
could he talk himself about it? could he explain the trouble of the central america dates and give us some light...
the tour being posponed till fall.

rumours about the dates.
festival dates (will they be cancelled?)
Should I buy tickets this week or should I wait till they are all out of tickets?

I wanna see guns but I don't wanna get burned down the road..

Doc? Axl? Fernando?

DAMN!!!! i didn't realize this guy was the same Doc as the guy in Supergroup that used to manage Skid Row.

If thats the case than im truly disappointed to be honest!  :-\  I can't believe it! I always had a bad feeling about this guy. I didnt realize it was him

Please bring back Azoff! He made  Chinese Democracy possible!

LOL Doc Mcghee? Hes like a mega scumbag, managed most of the 80s bands i liked and ripped them all off. They all hate him.

Could you post links to examples? I'd love to read up on this guy

Well if you check Motley Crues bio. or Nikkis own Bio.

Id say a quarter of the content is hate aimed at Doc.

nah, motley got mad at Doc cause he loved Bon Jovi more than them and sort of lied to them at the Moscow peace festival... I think Doc is a great manager and is a master at managing egos

His big thing is really over touring the bands he works with and not giving them much of a break.

every band he manages though becomes the biggest band in the world.

That was one issue. They had way more issues then that. Especially when it came down to money.

As for Doc, i think his time passed back in the late 80s.

This is from the new issue of Classic Rock, from an article with readers' questions for KISS:

Is Doc McGhee still you manager, as I heard he was managing Guns N' Roses?

Paul Stanley: That's been very funny. A few weeks ago I said to Doc: "It would've been nice if you'd told us." Doc replied: "I had nothing to to do with it." Axl has decided, from what I understand, that Doc is his manager. That's a one-way agreement. because Doc is not managing Guns N' Roses. One day he certainly might but he's not right now. And he definitely is still our manager.

WTF? Stanley is talking like if Doc is a friggin' gold mine....

someone's got some explaining to do lol... 

Would be nice if Doc clarified..

Apparently Guns are not listed on his myspace or website.

http://www.mcgheela.com/McGhee_Entertainment.html (http://www.mcgheela.com/McGhee_Entertainment.html)  His website

http://www.myspace.com/docmcghee (http://www.myspace.com/docmcghee)  his Myspace

Surely there's got to be more to it than Axl 'deciding' that Doc is GNR's manager?? Then again, maybe not....

I'm sure there is just a misunderstanding somewhere along the line that will be clarified soon. But in any case, I don't like Pauls attitude, it's obvious he's still angry about Axl not letting him produce Appetite. Axl wouldn't have named Doc McGhee unless there was some mutual understanding.


Lee

gene probably made him choose

I couldn't believe this when I heard it! I've heard/read and seen lots of things on Doc. None of it very positive. 

   Bon Jovi is a very well oiled machine, they know how to make money and to me they are in it to make a lot of money, if you have ever seen Bon Jovi all acess about their New Jersey Tour. Doc is just a slimy guy always contradicting himself, saying what his client wants to hear while doing what is best for himself for the most part. I am not a big BJ fan but I do consider JBJ a level headed kind of person and very focused. JBJ fired him right after getting the Michael Jackson Lifetime acheivement award at the MTV awards, at the time he was so pissed you can see JBJ give some girl his statue as they are walking off the stage. He didn't give a rat's ass about the award.

  I am sure he gets along great with Gene and Paul, especially Gene because to Gene the greener the better as we all know he would sell his grandmother's ass if he could.

 Doc probably lost his hair while managing Motley and most likely knows Axl from the GGG Tour.

   According to Motley's Dirt he had some drug charges in which he had to organize something big to get out of some heavy jail time so he organized the Moscow Peace Festival in 89 (20 years after Woodstock) with BJ, Ozzy, Scorps, Motley, Cinderella, Gorky Park, and Skid Row...all his clients except for Ozzy. He got BJ, Ozzy, Motley and the Scorps on the bill by basically telling each group they were headlining...Motley fired him backstage a month before Dr. Feelgood came out. After he say's in Motley's book "I was sick of hearing the bitches, bitch. No one was in it for the cause" (the cause was basically keeping his ass out of jail) the concert which officially was a concert against drug and Alcohol abuse...lol!

  Ozzy got cases of Vodka as presents for playing the concert to raise awareness on Drug and Alcohol abuse. When he came home he almost killed Sharon in a drunken stupor in which he consumed a good portion of his gifts which he received !!!! No one can make this shit up

Take it for what it is worth....

AXL is a monster in music biz !

he knows what he do !


and irvin azcof , sucks !!!! 

BAD PROMO OF THE ALBUM !!

We don't know what happened...I don't think it is fair to blame Irving Azoff.

He probably met him through Sebastian. Sebastian still speaks with Doc. He was mad at him at the VH1 Supergroup thing, but then they talked and everything seemed alright.

This guy takes all the money he cans from the bands. The only thing good about it, is that he actually makes the bands work their asses off for his and only his benefit! So if that is true, GNR will start puting some shit out.

Other than that, if you've watched Supergroup on VH1, he's a pretty nosy manager and very very opiniated. I don't think he'll last 1 month with Axl to be honest!

People basing their opinions on a reality TV show is amusing.  Those things aren't exactly well known for showing what really happened.

Exactly.  I also love it when poeple say 'Axl's voice is worse than Asia 09' or the band don't sound as tight when they have based those opinions on a shitty youtube video.

Someone posted this one at cd.com (not sure what the source is):

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAEwECX4fCwzN2DTNPJfqWgfXiJOs9pVLin55Xko_KLtJum6D0BeCqKv3DPU1IHZ2Y671rhjdKhFVIxqKGP5eWV0Am1T1ULzJFFaerqJkHRm0rzXSjQ-3FGSv.jpg)



To Paul Stanley: I guess Doc is just coincidentally spending his vacation together with GN'R. Just for the hell of it.  :rofl:  :rofl:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Can anyone say Tony Soprano?!  :hihi:

I knew all the stuff Paul Stanley said was just out of spite towards Axl. I feel the guy is nervous about Doc managing GN'R, as in my opinion they are a much bigger name than Kiss.

This picture is proof that what Paul said was absolute crap, a picture don't lie.  :hihi:

So it's just a personal attack towards GNR?  ??? 
I don't understand why this bothers Paul Stanley?  Don't all these managers handle many clients at the same time?

To be honest, Yes I do think that Paul is jealous to a certain extent. If you look on Docs website there are no other big bands managed by Doc, except for Kiss. Ted Nugent is managed but he is not a band, even he is not as big as GN'R though.

With Doc now managing GN'R, many people will now view GN'R as the biggest band on Docs books if you will. And I guess Paul doesn't like that, just my guess.  :D

+ Axl aren't the best of friends with paul & gene

it looks like Ashba is involve a lot on GUNS N ROSES !!!!!!!! love that thing

They're probably swapping crazy Crue stories  ;)