Here Today... Gone To Hell!

GROUP A

- Southafrica
- Mexico
- Uruguay [2 times world champion]
- France [1 time world champion]

GROUP B

- Argentina [2 times world champion]
- Nigeria
- South Korea
- Greece

GROUP C

- England [1 time world champion]
- U.S.A.
- Argel
- Slovenia

GROUP D

- Germany [3 times world champion]
- Australia
- Ghana
- Serbia

GROUP E

- Netherlands
- Japan
- Cameroon
- Denmark

GROUP F

- Italy [4 times world champion]
- New Zealand
- Paraguay
- Slovakia

GROUP G

- Brazil [5 times world champion]
- North Korea
- Ivory Coast
- Portugal

GROUP H

- Spain
- Honduras
- Chile
- Switzerland

Holland's in a good group 8)

Can't wait... Even though I'm pulling for England.

Disapointing they can't play Portugual in the Quater Finals again...  :'(

Why you wanted it? :hihi:

I think group A is pretty interesting, I'd like to see Mexico doing well and France failing totally (as they shouldn't even be there).

I don't know why the death's group is G. Brazil is gonna beat their asses. :hihi:


Also, England will have it pretty easy. Although the USA team was a bit of a pain in the Confederation Cup, I don't think it'll be too hard to win them with a good score.


I always root for Brazil and England. :beer:

Me too! Always been a Brazil fan first and then England. It will be a pity if Ronaldinho is not able to play though.

I have to say as an Englishman going into World Cup 2010 im a little more optimistic this time round that we can get to the semi's, previous tournaments Mr Eriksson would bottle it such as game against Brazil when we could and should have gone for the juggular we went defensive, same happened against Portugal game won till Rooney criminally sent off, and Beckham somehow still in squad out on pens again.

Mr Capello has a good pedigree with regards to winning tournaments and leagues and we had our best ever qulaification under his guide. Unfortunately the british press have started there disruption early but hoping by the time the world cup comes round they would have stopped.

Im hoping Beckham doesnt go he is way past it and in players such as Milner, Johnson, Walcott, Lennon we have adequate cover for the wings. With Beckham in the side we tend to revert back to narrow attacking play and direct football as he doesnt have the legs to keep up with play anymore and always fails on the big stage.
My hopes are Rooney keeps his form and we managed to stay injury clear with Ashley Cole getting back fit before the finals would be nice to go into a tournament without the injurys.

I still think we are in the 2nd group of what I call favourites, first group being Brazil, Germany, Spain and Italy. I would place us in with Argentina, Holland, France as teams who are capable of winning it.

Still im off to Wembley on the 3rd March to see how we are preparing.

Being from Uruguay I can't let this get away... We were Olimpic Champions in 1924 and 1928, before the first WC was organized, so FIFA considers that also as World Champions and is why we have four stars in our proud light blue shirts :)

Matches: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/index.html




/jarmo

ok 2 time profesional world champions, as the olympics back then was for amatuer athletes  ;)

well, Argentina is also a 2 times world champion and also a 2 (in a row) olympic gold medalist (1996, silver, also).

and we are 5 times sub20 champions too :peace:

Dunga gave his list for Brazil, and no Ronaldinho gaucho, Alexander Pato, Adriano and Ronaldo...  ???

All the coaches seem to have announced weird teams. Even for England and France.

As always I am rooting for Italy!!!



Joe

Yeahh anyway doesn't make any difference, it's been so long since we won anything ;)

Btw I agree with the rest of the comments, what's up with the coaches, weird teams indeed!! ???

And Maradona left out Cambiasso. WTF?!


I'm gonna laugh so much if Brazil loses this World Cup. Dunga left out so many good players...

And Zanneti! And dont make me talk about Riquelme!!!

Fn' coach...  :rant:

And no Benzema in France!


As somebody said up there, something very weird is going on these coaches' minds.... :-\

D-day ! Can't wait !  I'm french and tonight France will play VS Uruguay  :peace: but i like this competition, hope to see a beautiful World Cup even if the french team do nothing

Let the games begin! Damn, all the interesting matches are at 12 midnight :P

Just hope the fucking fascists from Italy get what they deserve

I guess most of the talk after today's games will be about the vuvuzelas....





/jarmo

England.... sorry bout your damn luck tomorrow : ok:

The first goal of the tournament was awesome. Pity SA threw away a chance to win in front of their home crowd.


Those dang things should be banned. I couldn't hear the commentary for most of the match.


Strong words from a country that doesn't even watch football. You better be praying that they're down on their luck tomorrow :)

So Yesterday ...

GROUP A

- Southafrica 1 -  Mexico 1
- Uruguay 0 - France 0  :-\

I watch the World Cup. its the only time i get to feel what other countries normally feel like competing against us in Basketball. we might get lucky and pull the upset.

Well, you guys almost won the 2009 Confederations Cup, so I'm guessing both England and the US will go through from Group C, unless something catastrophic happens.

Nobody wants Zanetti in the argentine team. He had 1000 chances.

Riquelme?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ARGENTINA - NIGERIA TODAY!!!

 :beer:

What is this Basket Ball of which you speak? And you say that WE play it?!

lol

man our goaltender just got hammered... hope he is ok

what is up with this obnoxious BUZZING coming through my TV speakers.. man, i am expecting a killer bee invasion at anytime.

The buzzing, if I'm not mistaken, is the vuvuzelas...

Oh Wow! England's goaltender must have some gambling debts.. how in the world did THAT happen!

Break

England-USA 1:1

...45 minutes to play

Decent starting for Argentina. 1-0 against Nigeria.

We made (at least) 7 very clear goal ocassions, and the nigerian goalkeeper was just incredible. Argentina is very strong from midfield and upwards, but we showed some serious weakness in defense. Great performance of Messi.

4 of the top 10 strikers in the world played today for Argentina: Messi, Higuain, Tevez and Milito. Kinda ironic the only goal was made by a defender...

GO USA GO!!!  :beer:

1:1

D, looks like you were right after all. I can't believe the manner in which England conceded that goal. I mean really? At this level and at the World Cup?
They should have Green crucified. Get your body behind the ball, you idiot. That's goalkeeping 101.

I don't know very much about the sport but England must have really played terrible.

Our DEFENSE was pitiful. WOW England got some easy penetration but luckily Tim Howard is one of the best goaltenders. England easily should've won that game 3-0 or so.

Germany :Australia  4 : 0

 :beer:

germany showed up for duty and fucking delivered

Germany showed they have what it takes to make it a long way...

I expected more from Holland today. Let's see what Italy does in a bit...

Now, hold on... Yes, Germany has shown us the best football so far, but let's not forget it was just Australia.


I was impressed that Italy drew 1-1 with Paraguay. I was expecting the Azurras to score at least 2 goals!


But tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen, the REAL deal begins. The greatest champion of all times, the one and only country that has won no more, no less than five Cups will play against North Korea (I'm guessing instead of vuvuzelas we'll be hearing bombs? :yes:)




I'm just kidding, Brazil won't win a thing this year. :no: Kaka aside, we have the worst midfield of all times.

Lets consider Germany's competition they played though

no offense Aussies

I was surprised at how bad Australia looked against Germany.  I expected more from them, they went to the quarterfinals in 2006 (losing to Italy, the eventual champs, in a match that wasn't decided until a phantom penalty in stoppage time). 

germany's germany, they'll go far, they have 10 medals (3 gold), people always underestimate them but they are one of the most stable countries ever. having only really failed in the WC once (78)

brazil has 7 medals (5 gold, yes) but choked last world cup with a (at least on paper) better team than this years, i'll always root for 'em a lil' 'cause the football they've played in the past and they were good last years confederations cup but i dunno

spain will be interresting, they have one of the most complete squads

happy sweden didn't qualify, always sucks to see them get kicked out in the second rounds :hihi:

Nobody believed Brazil would make it to the semi-finals in 2002 and they won the Cup. Nobody trusted that team, people had issues with the coach, Felip?o (just like this year, with Dunga), and they beat Germany in the finals. The same Germany that had not lost one match that World Cup, the one with the unbeatable Oliver Kahn.

And I won't even get started on 1994, when Brazil had a horrible team (or so everybody thought, at the time) and also won the Cup. As a friend of mine says: the 1994 World Cup was so bad, that there wasn't even a victory goal. It was a missed penalty. :hihi:

As for 2006 (and add 1998 to that list), Brazil had an awesome team, everybody took our victory for granted, and yet, we fell.


So, you know... History teaches us that saying Brazil had a better team in 2006 than we have this year doesn't mean much.

true, and i really hope they'll surprise everyone and open my eyes up for new players (like germany did with lahm and schweinsteiger last time around), shame most of them are around their 30's so i can't enjoy their careers very long (though I still check out how things goes for rivaldo in uzbekistan) they could've might as well have the other 30 year olds there :hihi: .. in 98 they still won silver (even if you see it as you losing the gold) I hope ramires gets a chance, i think i remember him playing great in the confederations cup last year

about the victory goal and missed penalty, yeah that's also true :rofl:


yes i was lazy writing this post and didn't care about grammar or pawnkshoeaichon as jdog would've written it

(http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads7/vuvuzelaherolegendofafrica600.jpg)

I would buy that game  :hihi:

In other news, Spain lost against Swiss!  :beer:

you can make some practice for now  ;D
http://gr.vc/vuvuzela/

So...Argentina in the next phase  :peace:

Great match against South Korea!!!. Open play from both teams, one of the most entertaining games I have seen so far. Charly Tevez played very well, must be his Xeneixe's blood of course   :hihi:

LOL awesome app!  ;D

First of all, Argentina is not in the next phase yet. If Argentina loses for more than 3 goals against Greece and then Korea wins against Nigeria for 3 or more goals, Argentina would be eliminated. Pretty much impossible, but this is football, and you never know...

And @ Ignacio: the biggest star of the match was Gonzalo, with his hat-trick. River Plate's blood, of course  ;D

Great Messi match. He cant score, but he's the greatest player of this world cup so far.

Indeed. :hihi:

Of course nothing is impossible. Hey, didn't Argentina need to win the game against Peru with a 4 goals difference to eliminate Brazil in 1978? And didn't they win scoring, like, 6 goals? But let's not get into that... ;D



Wish I had seen the match this morning, but it was too early and I was asleep. Only saw the last 10 minutes of it, because a friend of mine woke me up when she sent me a text saying: "Hey, are you watching the game?? If Brazil plays against Argentina, we're screwed!!!". I don't really like Maradona, but I like the Argentinian team. Higuain deserves to be the top scorer!!




Oh, and ALLEZ LE VERT!!! France got what they deserved! Seriously, Henry?! You ilegally classified France FOR THIS??? :hihi:

Oh that was below the belt!!!!!!!  :hihi:

One word: MEXICO!

great Mexico won againts France, it appears we are going to the next phase, but we will probably play against Argenita  :no:

Very sad today for France. one step in the plane... 

well done Mexico

and the germans lost today. another little suprise in the group stages

WTF was that call that disallowed a game-winning goal for the US?  Shameful. 

England was just pathetic today....

I guess they can't get worse.....



/jarmo

England is playing horrible! I doubt they will pass Group Stages.

Holland vs Japan is the match to watch tomorrow  :beer:

Yeah we got the shaft today.

i told u guys our Defense sucks though. how in the world do they just let the offensive player walk right to the goal?

I can't believe how bad England played today.

I just can't imagine how we can beat the likes of Brazil, Italy, Argentina and Spain, if we can't win Algeria.


I also think Rooney lost it today, he seemed to get worse during the game. Regarding his comment at full time, I don't think you can blame the fans for booing. With how bad we played, it was only expected and deserved.

The only saving grace for England in my view is that other world class teams have also started poorly. For instance France, Italy and Spain, have also not lived up to expectations.

Rooney was unrecognizable! I don't know what happened to him today... And I also think Capello is taking too long to put Crouch and Wrigh-Phillips in the game. I actually think this last one shouldn't be on the bench, but on the starting line-up. It's getting tough for England. They'll have to beat Slovenia, or they will be eliminated.


By the way, see what I meant a few posts ago when I said "let's not forget it was just Australia", when Germany won that first game? : ok:


Spain, Germany, England, Italy (well, these 2 were draws, but they were pretty much losses to me) and France losing. And Brazil won with a not-very-convincing performance. I'm quite curious to see the outcomes of such a weird World Cup.

I agree, I think our manager is putting Crouch on way too late for him to make an impact on the match.

I love watching Brazil because of the way they play, even with all of my favourite players like Ronaldo and Rivaldo retired, I still love their style. And Brazil won comfortably against North korea, with them playing average. Can you imagine how good they will be when they are playing at the top of their game.  :drool:

I think Brazil and maybe Argentina are the only teams that have showed they have the potential to win this contest so far.

yeah, we better not start discussing that. i imagine what your point is. But anybody who knows *just a bit* football, knows that Argentina played a brilliant, masterclass of football that day, and could have won like 11 - 0 considerating how dominant and how many approches to the goal had during that game. Its too easy to think ''meh, that game was payed''. People need to know that you cant ''pay'' a shot on goal that hits the post and goes all over the line of goal, when the match is 1-1 in the 88th minute of the world cup final. And people who knows just a *bit* of football knows that Argentina was the undeniable best team in Argentina's 78 world cup.

Now, if you want to talk about brazilian players getting asleep in Argentina 1-0 Brazil in 1990's world cup due to clorophorm, you can just start talking  ;D

ahh, memories  ;D


Yeah, absolutely.

What is kinda incredible is England doesn't lose a match in world cups since their elimination in 2002 against Brazil... same for Argentina... Argentina doesnt lose since 0-1 against England in the second match of the first round in Korea-Japan (the day of Beckham's revenge and Veron's historic catastrophe)

i dont want to start an argument, but in 78 Argentina was not considered the best team of the tournament, and still today many people that "know" about football agree that they won because they were in home not because they were the best.

and am not saying they fixed the game against Peru or that they were a bad team, i think people has to accept that Argentina won fair and square, but the team wasnt great.

Oh. My. God. Are you serious, Esteban? You truly believe it's because Argentina had a better team?! There are several books, articles, documentaries made about that World Cup! Everyone knows what happened. Everyone knows Argentina was under a very severe dictatorship (just like most countries in South America, including Brazil). In fact, there'll be a documentary airing about it tomorrow! Oh, and yeah, let's not forget that the Peruvian goalkeeper in 1978 was Argentinian and didn't even have a Peruvian citizenship! I'm truly scared and in awe, if you are serious when you say Argentina won it fair and square. It wasn't Argentina who played brilliantly. It was Peru that played NOTHING that match. And everyone who knows *just a bit* about football, knows that Peru had a pretty good team that year and there's NO WAY they would've played liked that under normal conditions.

For those who don't know about it, you can google it up. You'll find tons of things about it. This one is quite interesting: http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=6786

bah, its simply not worth the discussion. Just believe your twisted theories if you feel happy with that. People love to repeat these kind of things instead of thinking and actually taking the time to see the 90 minutes of that game. Believing all this bullshit is simply more entertaining (and easier) than believing the truth.

I love football, I was born and live in Argentina, I study communications and I was born at the end of that dictatorship. And I've seen the 90 minutes of all our nations matches. I really dont need anyone who can only give an opinion from ''what people say'' out there to tell me if I'm serious or not, or to ''open my eyes with the unquestionable truth'' regarding this subject. Of course I am serious.

Explain how you can pay the example I made of the ball hitting the post and rolling all over the line of goal at the last minute of the final, with the score 1-1.

yes, i know you cant explain that. people like you say ''i never said Argentina payed the title, just the game against peru''. Simply lame.

Now i need someone (i will not mention any specific nation) to say ''yeah, you payed Argentina 78, and you cheated in Mexico 86 with Maradona's hand of god, you got no legit world championships''. Trust me: i've read/heard it all...

I can accept that. I dont agree, but your opinion's acceptable and respectable.

All i can accept is Netherlands had a GREAT team, so do Italy, and Netherlands could have won that world cup if Cruyff was there. Netherlands was not ''the best netherlands'' available, and that's true.

Holland still isn't playing like they are capable of....



/jarmo

True. But you also got to give credit to Japan and their defensive play. But if you compare Holland and Germany, the difference is huge; Germany can create dangerous scoring opportunities with one pass (?zil) and one good run (Podolski, Klose). Whereas Holland just keeps the ball and moves it around without creating anything dangerous. That said, how many opportunities does Podolski need to score once..?

Portugal better show their true colors or ill be really mad :rant:

The US have been unlucky, but with the way England is playing I don't think they should be worried.
Some real shocker results so far.

It's because Holland doesn't move forward fast enough. Instead they stop and pass the ball from side to side...



/jarmo

Esteban, I understand and respect your point of view, which is why I'm not going any further with this discussion. Of course everything I said was about "what other people say". But that doesn't make it a lie. I mean, I'm a historian, that's what I have to do - rely on other people's words. I studied the dictatorships in South America exhaustively, for a whole year last year, which is why I have about a 100 reasons to believe in what I posted yesterday. But if you don't, I'm sure you have your reasons too and I'm fine with that. Sorry, I was a little bit harsh on my other post. :hihi:

It's the kind of thing we'll talk about some day, over a few beers, after a River Plate game, when I go to Argentina. ;)


As for "the hand of God", I have nothing to say about that. I mean, sure, according to the rules, that's not legal, but before people start contesting it and saying the title wasn't legit, I'll kindly ask to, please, point out one single football match where a referee hasn't made one mistake. It just happens. It's a sport played by humans and judged by humans. I think Argentina's title in 1986 was legit indeed.


------


I wish I had seen the games this morning, but I was out. :-\ Seems like Holland wasn't too good, from what I read. It's a shame, I had really high hopes for them in this World cup.

Cameroon vs Denmark. What a weird game!





/jarmo

One of the best games so far.

In many ways it wasn't the best by far. A lot of mistakes.

Entertaining, yes.

From an entertainment point of view, it was one of the best.



/jarmo

It seems like all of the teams you thought were going to be just making up the numbers, are actually putting up a decent contest between the favourites.

I'll be watching Brazil tommorrow, they are always a treat to watch. I feel they will beat the Ivory Coast comfortably even with Drogba on the apposing team.

i agree, it was pretty entertaining but it was full of defensive mistakes.

And that makes it interesting as both teams took some risks. So far most of the matches have been all defensive shit (defensive line of 6 men, what the fuck?) and that's killing the tournament. Of course it's going to change and it already has changed as the second round started and you just got to win, but some of these teams are just so fucking boring with their "smart tactics". Yes, I know it's usually their only chance to win or draw with the bigger teams. But last night both Cameroon and Denmark tried to win the match with their own game instead of waiting for the opponent to make a mistake.

Spot on. Unfortunately, it is only to be expected; it's what makes the Champions League so anti-climactic (and, generally, shit) year after year.

There's also the fact that it's the best players playing against the best. The chances are not as plenty and there's more at stake. Don't expect any Chelsea vs. Wigan kind of matches.
It should be much better from the second round onwards.

Even with how Italy has been playing, I still fancy them to win New Zealand.

Looking forward to Brazil tonight, I expect them to breeze past the Ivory Coast. If I had to have a guess I'd say it will be 3-0 to Brazilia.  :)

No lost matches for southamerican teams. Paraguay defeated Eslovaquia today.

Uruguay: 1 W | 1 D
Chile: 1 W
Argentina: 2 W
Brazil: 1 W
Paraguay: 1 W | 1 D

and if we just say ''american'' teams we should add

M?xico: 1 W | 1 D
USA: 2 D

...only Honduras was defeated in this world cup

... In other news, a semi-professional who has had to take time off from working in a bank has just come on for New Zealand against the world champions!

I would argue that in the group stages there are far greater gulfs in class than between Chelsea Wigan.

That said, New Zealand were fantastic. Another cracking little match that I would have expected nothing from!, I almost didn't watch it. Colour me very glad that I did.

My God! Kaka is playing horribly!!!

Good game, Brazil!

I'll comment about it later, I gotta calm down first. I'm *REALLY* pissed off about all the needless violence from C?te-d'Ivoire.

Kakas' incident was never a sending off.

Things started to get heated a few seconds before, and then the Ivory Coast player ran into him. Kakas' instant reaction was to shake him off of his arm, then the same player held his face as if he was punched in the face.

Absolutely disgusting and yet another reason why Refs should be able to call upon video evidence.

The players of C?te-d'Ivoire are piace of shit !!! mad  violence on the second half.

The Ref was a cloud,what a cunt..... I'm  pissed off. :rant:

5 games to go.WTF... Welcome To The Jungle... bunch of animals...  :rant:

Lucio, Robinho and  Luis Fabiano they played very well. : ok:

KAKA is working in progress, he did some nice plays today.

The second goal.... what a goal L. Fabiano kick ass :smoking:

Hopefully that referee won't be involved in more games in this tournament...





/jarmo

Ok, so...

I don't think Kaka's incident was a sending off either, but Dunga should've substituted him and put Ramires the minute he got the first yellow card. Luis Fabiano is fabulous!!! He totally pulled a Garrincha on the second goal, which reminded me of the good old times.

By the way, I hope the players from C?te-d'Ivoire are happy they got Kak? suspended for the next match, because they really will be needing him to play against Portugal, if they wanna start thinking about making it to the eighth finals.

As I said, good game, Brazil. I'm finally getting excited about Dunga's team.



Oh, and on a side note: things are getting so ugly on France's side, that even the French referee didn't do his job properly. :hihi:

Well hopefully when FIFA watch the footage back, they will intervene and change the decision.

I'm shocked at how voilent the Ivory Coast became during the end of the match. At one point, I thought a mass brawl was going to erupt.

But as I said, I think it is just horrible what happened to Kaka. Everytime I watch it back, it seems to get worse.

If it was my decision, I would reverse the punishment and give the Ivory Coast player a red card for blatant unsportsmanship.

i'll be surprised if that ref gets more games

kaka was an ass, don't make it out like he's the most innocent dude, he was almost as bad as the ivorians + brazillians does dive and pretend to get hurt all the time, ok kaka shouldn't have gotten that second yellow but he's not jesus or anything

luis fabiano is one of my favorite forwards but he used his arms twice for the second goal..

What a great goal Luis Fabiano scored!! Dunga's team jogando bonito???  :hihi:

FIFA should put a sanction to the Ivory Coast player that over-reacted after pushing Kak?. Now the world cup loses the 2nd best player in the world for one or two matches (is the number of matches of suspension already known?).

So, Holland, Brazil and Argentina, the three teams with 2 played games > 2 victories.

Maradona will make 7 substitutions to play against Greece. Messi will be present anyway  :beer:

Romero

Burdisso (Samuel)
Clemente Rodriguez (Jon?s Gutierrez)
Otamendi (Heinze)
Demichelis

Veron (Di Mar?a)
Bolatti (Mascherano)
Maxi Rodriguez

Aguero (Tevez)
Messi
Milito (Higuain)

i think brasil overreacted to the fouls from Ivory Coast, they kept hitting the ground every 2 minutes and they stayed there. just play the game! stop trying to get the other team a yellow card. 

the second yellow card they showed Kaka was really lame, but theres nothing to worry about, he will miss the next game which is not that important and he will be in the next phase.

The biggest mistake the referee did was accepting Brazil's second goal, not sending Kaka off. And for the "violence", both teams were involved.

Just saw the best game of the tournament so far...




/jarmo

Good play by Portugal.

Once they got some confidence, they just seemed to get better and better. The Koreans defence was just lackluster, not motivated enough. And once the goals kept coming, it was over for them.

I still fancy Brazil to beat them comfortably though, in their next match.  :)

Thats not going to happen! When the game starts the ball is round for both teams, so i expect Portugal to do a great game against Brazil! Brazil are not playing in their full potential even though they've won their matches too so that can be major for Portugal. I bet in a draw!

But 7-0! Amazing game with a strong team, especially on the first half : ok:

North Korean team destroyed. It wasn't a torpedo.

I think it's safe to say that they won't be showing that match in North korea.  :hihi:

"We regret to inform you that we unable to show the second half of match due to 'technical difficulties'.
Instead, we show goal against Brazil in loop for 25 minutes and patriotic songs for our Eternal President for next 20.
Very Sorry."

Apparently it was on live!
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h-_8RsoSUGu2V5avxrwjUz0SwFjA (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h-_8RsoSUGu2V5avxrwjUz0SwFjA)



/jarmo

Well I hope that the Korean players don't get punished or talked down to. Apparently the Korean manager has said that Kim Jong would not take any action against the side if they lost.

I just hope that remains, considering the extent at which they lost and that it was shown back home.

Let's give Here Today Gone To Hell a World Cup atmosphere

Click here (http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.htgth.com")
 :hihi:

Man, I feel bad for North Korea (well, kind of...). It was their first ever live broadcasted football match. :no: Portugal was awesome, amazing goal by CR9, but just as I said when Germany won against Australia: it's just North Korea. I'm betting on a draw for Brazil x Portugal. It's gonna be 2x2. :P




Of course both teams were involved. The Brazilian players were getting beaten up the whole match and the referee seemed to ignore it! Of course that, at some point, they would beat them back! It would've happened with any team, some teams would probably react in a worse way to all that violence from Ivory Coast. There was this one time where one of their players took Kaka to the ground by putting his arm around his neck, like in a Judo fight or something. And the only thing Kaka did was curse, while the referee did nothing.

Sure it was a mistake accepting the second goal, but, just as I said a few posts earlier about Maradona's "mano de D10s" in 1986, it happens.



If you watch Brazil's games with certain frequency, you'll know that the Brazilians do not pretend to get hurt all the time. Yes, they did in this specific match, but for the same reasons I said a few lines back - if somebody touched one of the Ivorians with the tip of their fingers, they'd fall to the ground, taking their hands to their faces, making it seem like somebody just punched them really hard. It was ridiculous. These guys must be drama actors or something.

Anyone who knows enough about football to know who Kak? is, knows he's a very down to Earth guy. Ask anybody who supports Milan or Real Madrid and they'll confirm it. He almost never gets the red card, he's very calm. But he lost it, just like anyone else would in his place. Watch the video, if you want. He never even touched the guy's face and the player takes his hands to his face like he was punched.





Esteban, Maradona is doing the right thing. Argentina is basically already qualified, and it doesn't matter if you win or lose this game, so it's a nice way of seeing how those guys do in a World Cup and, at the same time, giving the other players some rest before the eighth-finals. I wish Dunga would do the same against Portugal. 

Also, I still don't know why he insists on putting Di Mar?a on the starting line-up and leaving Ver?n on the bench. Ver?n is so much better!!

pretty much every football player acts more then they're hurt for real, not always and sometimes they do get hurt, like elano but please.. they want their free kicks and it's a shame that they do kinda have to dive to get anything these days but..

i was not meaning that it was only brazillians, it's not and it's not only ivorians, swedes or italians or whatever country.

yes i know about k?ka, milan used to be one of my absolute favorite teams, don't need any lessons about his past or anything, i was talking about how he acted in this game. saying he was an ass, not that he is. and i guess you missed when i said he shouldn't have gotten that yellow card, guess i wasn't clear enough and wasn't hating on the ivorians enough but i thought every body here did that already

though i gotta ask, did you defend the turkish guy the same way in 2002?

No, I did not defend the Turkish guy the same way in 2002, because, back then, I was only 11/12 years old and didn't care at all about football. I only heard about that years later.
But, hey, if you gotta ask, I defended Maradona (somebody that I do not like at all, I must confess...) the same way, a couple of times, and even before yesterday's match happened.

You said this "brazillians does dive and pretend to get hurt all the time", which made it seem like you were talking in general and not only about yesterday's game. ;)


As for that whole other paragraph about Kak?, it wasn't solely directed at you, but to anybody who could maybe think that Kak? is some sort of violent douche.

Yeah...brazilians do not fake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfRCa71Kmw

Didn't say they never fake, everybody does.


I was just explaining that the whole "they pretend to fake it all the time" crap isn't true, and that what happened yesterday, exclusively, was completely different to how they play normally. 

But you have to admit that you use to fake. It is bad? It is good? That's not the point

And I don't know if today is your birthday or not but just in case: Happy birthday! :hihi:

LOL! Thanks, Ulises! ;)


I'm not sure if I get what you mean by "you have to admit that you use to fake", but if you're talking about the video, it was ridiculous! Rivaldo's attitude was deplorable, how can anybody say otherwise? Of course he was faking! But, again, I never said that Brazil never fakes. Everybody does.

OMG get those annoying things away!!! But very funny though :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

I did care for football back then, more so than today and rivaldo was my absolute favorite player. i remember it like it was yesterday, i taped the game because it was on while i was in school. back then i was kinda blinded by the love for rivaldo and thought it was the assiest move by the turkish dude and laughed at rivaldo's act, the next day i had a debate with a turkish friend of mine who of course hated on rivaldo


defending maradona.. lol, no reason to talk with you on this subject anymore :hihi:

I also loved the pairing of Ronaldo and Rivaldo throughout previous tournaments. Rivaldo made a mistake, and he got punished, so why should this incident be any different?.

Dunga, is not going to appeal the decision as their last match is not that important. So this means after Kakas' served his suspension, he will be clear of any cards, and free to start a fresh.

But, I still can't work out why FIFA has not taken any action against the Ivory Coast player for his blatant play acting.

Now Chile too :D

I've been taken by some regionalist feelings. Totally rooting for every single Latin American country in this World Cup! :beer: Especially Uruguay because of Loco Abreu, who plays here in my home team. Shame he's on bench. :hihi:



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I expected a lot more from Spain in this tournament.

Torres aint fit at all and that Navas fella is a joke  :hihi:

As an Irishman, im so happy to see France go home!

2 - 0 to South Africa and France down to 10 men!

I feel sorry for South Africa, before the french goal, they seemed to have a spring in their step. Now they look deflated, but they are still playing well.

As for France, even Henry is playing below his standard, don't know what's going on with them.

France...shameful...

france need to fire pretty much everybody in the organization and start over from scratch

So u mean to tell me we can knock England out of the World Cup with  a win? haha this is too good to be true. If the refs don't screw us, it will be done!

U.S.A. was robbed the other day. Hope you won't get robbed again this time.

I think it is absolutely horrendous what has happened to France.. embarrassment to the country. u can't go out like that.

France's participation in this World Cup was shameful...


YAY for Uruguay!!!!!!! :D :D :beer: :beer: They ended up in first, which means they're probably not playing against Argentina on the next round. Awesome!!!

No! If you beat Algeria and we beat Slovenia then we'll both go through. If you draw and we win then we are dumping your arses out!!

(I think that I just realised what you mean; that if you win then you can knock us out (if we don't win), not that you will, eh?)

Though, if we both draw, and ours is a higher scoring draw by a couple of goals, then who goes through will be decided by drawing straws.

Which is a shocking way to go out, but if we can't beat any of you shambles of shits then we don't deserve to progress.

Uruguay won!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1st in the group after I don't know how many years wooohooooooooo!!  :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I think I've never screamed a goal as I did on Palermo's one.

Most of you don't know the story of Palermo. Otherwise, you would understand me.

PALERMO IS THERE BECAUSE OF ONE PERSON: DIEGO ARMANDO MARADONA.   :beer:

(http://www.infobae.com/adjuntos/imagenes/04/0340499B.jpg)

Hhahahahahhahahah France :hihi: I hoped that they would suck in this tournament but they sucked so badly that I can't find a word for it.. serves them right!

Palermo  :beer:

(http://www.ole.com.ar/mundial/argentina/Toda-emocion-alegria-Palermo-convertir_OLEIMA20100622_0146_6.jpg)

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1242/35875409913542909167850.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/i/35875409913542909167850.jpg/)

Lets Go USA and Serbia tomorrow!!!!!!!

I really wish i understood strategies etc.. its fun to watch anyway although i know very little about the rules and what is going on.
why in the world do they have ONE REFEREE?

that is the most ridiculous thing of all time.

i like Argentina but in my opinion Palermo is so fucking arrogant, i will be pretty angry if he scores against Mexico.

Arrogant? Do you know who Palermo is? He's one of the more modest players I ever saw

just a quick one, on stratagies.

USA tend to play counter attacking most of the time, defend really well then when the other team have men commited hit back with pace on the counter attack, works really well against the more flair teams like spain and brazil who commit lots of men forward.

will be interesting to see how they play against Algeria who like the USA are a more defensive minded team who like to play on the counter.

Spain seem to play a little more like Barca/Arsenal, alot of good passing to try and open up space to create chances, the only thing with Spain is they don't seem to have a plan B as seen against the Swiss.

The Swiss like many other small teams tend to play just all out defence to stop the bigger teams being able to score, they just kinda play spoiler. i guess you could compare them to a team who plays "trap" style in the NHL. very solid on D but not much from the forwards, yet if they do get a lead they are hard to break down.

this is just from the bits and pieces i've seen at this world cup. and last years confederations cup.

anyone want to go into more detail feel free, i've been working for most of the games so can't go into crazy detail on this world cup.

There are actually four referees. One main match referee, two assistant referees on the side lines (indicate fouls, goal kicks, corners, offsides and the like) and a fourth official in charge of various duties including substitutions (holding up the number board for instance) and time added on.

It was just too many emotions over that goal. Great victory yesterday! Secured by that never ending optimism of the greatest Boca's scorer  :beer:

tell me we just didn't get ripped off AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

Awesome job by the USA to top their group. Switching channels between the two matches was crazy. A pitiful performance by England again. There's no use for them qualifying with the way they play, they're just going to get KO'd in the next match.

I think England played much better than the last 2 matches.

It could have easily been 3-0, Rooney hit the post, and we had a goal disallowed. It will be interesting to see who wins against Ghana and Germany as we have to face them.

... Just look at the score again, did you? Get a clue!

US wins its Group!  Best of a weak bunch, but I'll take it. 

I think USA deserves to be first, they got ripped off two times at least for what I saw, and putting that aside the other countries didn't have that much. England is there by luck, I feel bad for Slovenia. I was expecting far more from Rooney & co.

i'd take that performance again in the next round, controlled the game pretty much all the way through, created alot of chances, and kept Slovenia to the outside, they had one little flurry where they could have scored but the defence stopped the shots getting through.


as for the England being there by luck comment. England USA game, Rob Green. USA tied by luck  :P

yeah

USA:Ghana


and Germany against England...

All day long!

England have bored me to tears in recent years (even when we're winning), but this afternoon I genuinely thought that we played very inventively; on another day it could have been a cricket score. There was some lovely stuff. Cracking cross from Milner, but I wasn't overly impressed with his all round play (even if he did have his moments) at all. He gave away posession far too easily and his touch was terrible, as was Rooneys. I'd say that Rooney's substitution was six of one and half a dozen of the other with regards injury and his performance.
Again, though he showed flashes, he never really looked comfortable on the ball, his first touch was atrocious at times.

I think that I read somewhere Milner being touted as man of the match, but Johnson would probably get my vote.

I'm in two minds about us not topping the group. Finishing first would have presented us with a lovely route to the semis, but...

... I'm seeing They Might be Giants on Saturday evening!, so had we finished top then I would have missed it... Instead, we'll face Germany at 3 on Sunday. And you've got to get riled up by the prospect of facing the Germans at the World Cup, right?

Palermo is the most humble and down to earth player in the world cup, trust me.

And its also argentina's biggest hope when the bad times appear.

Great to see USA won the group. Its a real placer to see Landon Donovan in action.

Germany Vs. England. What a blockbuster match in the beginning of the second round. The winner will play against the winner of Mexico - Argentina.

if Uruguay defeats Korea (highly likely), they'll play against the winner of USA - Ghana, so believe it or not, Uruguay is the biggestv favourite to reach semifinals nowadays.  :beer:

They did play better than their previous matches, but that's not saying much is it? Just to put England's performance in perspective, they have scored two goals in the ENTIRE tournament so far, which is what Argentina scored in their last match, that too after qualifying with half their players rested. If England are struggling to score against teams like Algeria and Slovenia, it won't be a pretty sight in the later stages. You would expect a lot more from a star studded team of EPL players, most of whom are signed on for more than 100K pounds a week. However, in their defence most of the European teams have played sub par including Spain and Germany. It's only the South Americans that at the moment seem unstoppable.

mm thats wierd for me to hear, i dislike him because i remember him playing against some Mexican team on the Copa Libertadores and he was pretty childish in the game, he was angry because they lost in their home, but he was picking fights with all the players. profesional players should not act that way.

The last thing we needed was facing the germans, but saying that, they can't fancy playing us either. England have not lost a match yet in this tournament, Germany have.

I'd say it's not impossible that England will win Germany on Sunday. With Germany losing to Serbia, I'm liking our chances.

What a match between Italy and Slovakia. The best one yet. This is what World Cup dreams are made of!

I think only the last 20 minutes were really good. The first half was kinda boring to watch...

Another giant fell... Wow...


No wonder the best Italian team and current best European team (Internazionale) has no Italian players. :nervous:

It was nice to see Robben get to play a few minutes. :D




/jarmo

so how does the next rd of 16 work?

is is still the round robin pool play? or is it like if we beat Ghana we advance to the final 8?

Yeah, it's knockout from here on in.

NOW the real fun begins! ;D

Are you ready for Spain, Mandy?  ;D

Are you ready for England, estebanf?  ;D

Yes, bring 'em on! :beer:
If we can't beat a team that lost to Switzerland, then we are probably better off going home anyway. :yes:

Some beautiful and nice goals today, especially the Japanese freekicks. And it was a pleasure seeing Italy go down, even though I didn't see the offside (but it goes well with the theme of this tournament). That group was supposed to be easy, maybe they had an attitude problem..? Denmark was just blaaaaah again, I expected so much more from them but in this tournament they were nothing like they were some years ago. And whole Afrika kind of let me down as Ghana is the only team going to the knock-outs. But overall I'm glad that USA and Holland made it, two of my favourites again.

Germany-England will be interesting. Germany seemed to be really out of control but their last two games weren't that good, altough it might have something to do with Klose missing (Podolski just can't score). I've always "hated" England's national team because of the 1998 tournament but now my thoughts are starting to change, I really liked their last game :P

remember 1986 and 1998? of course I am!   :peace:

before you say anything, i dont remember anything from 2002 thanks to my therapist  :hihi:

only one game. if U.S wins then they are in the final 8 if they lose they go home.

england choking at various points of the Group stage really cost them. tough grouping for them....if they beat Germany they'll probably have Argentina waiting for them next.

whereas had they scored another goal in that final game (Rooney should have buried that shot), they would have won Group C and would be facing Ghana followed by Uraguay (or South Korea), which would have been just a tad bit easier.  :hihi:

A bit of a scrappy game between Brazil and Portugal.

The first half was all Brazil, they could have scored 3 easily. Then the second half was just about defensive play, no one really getting any good chances.

I'm liking Brazil at this tournament, they will be hard to beat for sure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37924273/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/

Maybe now I can watch some of it with the volume on.

:)

Wouldn't England had to have  scored more goals than that?

England had 2 goals, total, in the group stage (1-1 draw with the US, 0-0 draw with Algeria, 1-0 win vs SLV)

US had 4 goals, total, in group stage (1-1 draw with England, 2-2 draw with SLV, 1-0 win vs Algeria). 

Tie break is total goals, right (4 vs 2)?  Not +/- goals ratio (+1 vs +1)?  Or is it goals ratio THEN total goals?  I get confused....I know the last one is "drawn lot".  ::)

Not a great game, but they both didn't seem to care that much. Kaka and Robinho give the team more "creativity", if you know what I mean, they were greatly missed today. I got sick worried when Raul Meirelles accidently stepped on Julio Cesar's back. He had some back problems before the World Cup, and if we ever lose him, we lose the Cup.


I loved how the Brazilian and the Portuguese players were hugging and greeting each other and laughing at the end of the game. It was too cute. :D

Second round starts today...

Will be interesting to see if Uruguay can advance.

And USA....



/jarmo

no, first tie breaker is goal differential.

unbelievable that the biggest sports tournament in the world would eliminate a team based on a coin flip. i'm also not a fan of deciding games on penalty kicks either.

Penalties are part of the game...

Arriba, la celesteeeeee!!!!



Uruguay!!! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Great game so far!!! that penalty kick made me jump out of my seat!!!!!

I don't know what game D and that Ian announcer guy was watching but, as disappointed as I am that our team lost, there was absolutely nothing exciting or dramatic about that and I'm glad it's over.

That penalty kick was INSANE. if that didn't get your heart rate up, i don't know what to tell u or dont know what u were expecting.

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Now awaiting for Ghana next Friday... let's see how it goes!

That's nothing compared to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIEy4Sq0Stg


It was the goal that made my team win the Carioca championship this year, after losing to our biggest rival for 3 consecutive years. Can you imagine how we almost had a heart attack when that ball hit the post? :hihi:

I've been told Botafogo sucks....



I saw on TV that the English seem overly confident about tomorrow's game. Talking about the media over there...

They haven't been that great in this tournament....  :confused:




/jarmo

not to disrespect Ghana but that game winning goal was a complete fluke... u wanna talk about a lucky bounce.

I personally dont give a fuck about Ghana, and even though i like USA's team (Donovan, specially, i love him), i must admit this game was not the one I was expecting most from round of 16.

With that said, the match, specially the last 30 min, was VERY exciting and VERY dramatic. How many times you see 2 goalkeepers fighting for a ball in the air, in a World Cup match? That's just one of several examples.

Fuerza Argentina ma?ana la puta madre que los remil pario a todos  ;D

We need Messi. More than ever. VAMOS PULGA!!

i think Mexico has a chance today, but it will be really difficult game.

ok ok, i think we are going to lose... :nervous:

My first team was US, but now that they r gone....I hope Mexico wins tomorrow, VAMOS MEXICO!!!!!.. 

ghana deserved the win yesterday, they played entertaining football and finally got 2 "playing" goals, most players would fall and try to get a penalty, instead he kept going and scored a beautiful goal. fell in love with ghana in the 2006 world cup and with the US team at last years confederations so i would've won with whatever result :)


i still don't know which team i want to win the cup..

I don't think Ghana deserved to win. I think USA was way better and even more entertaining and really risked it. But hey, it's football and only the goals matter. I'm just a little dissapointed because the first goal was so easy for Ghana. And for the first time in this tournament I thought the referee really sucked.. some major fouls here and there but no whistle.

Mexico and Germany for the win today!

Every media pundit in the UK, thinks England are lossing on penalties today.

Your just bitter Norway never qualified  :P.

1-0 for Germany.. I'm just so glad to see Klose back in business!

I want England in quaters.

There's always something special between Argentina and England for obvious reasons...

EDIT: Hooligans will be maaaaad for that "no goal"  :hihi:

fuck, it's among the best games of the tournament yet but that "no goal" almost ruins it for me.. i'm rooting for germany but don't fucking want them to go through because of a refs mistake :rant:

Couldn't care less about Norway not qualifying.  :-*



England was robbed..... I think it's time to start using video to help the referees....




/jarmo

Yes, they were robbed. And now everyone's bashing the referee for it, but if he didn't see the ball cross the line he did the right and only possible decision.. and keep in mind he had like a second to do it. So I don't blame the ref (even though he should have seen it), but it really is the time for video checking in tournaments like this. But in my opinion, the video should only be used in a situation like this.. to check if the ball crossed the line or not. Not to check possible offside that have been flagged already or some other crappy things. It would just kill the game.

Blame FIFA, not the referees. They're human.




/jarmo

And in my opinion referee mistakes are part of this game. This one was just too big and important (and pretty rare too).

Anyway, Germany just scored 3-1 :) Lads can only blame themselves for that one..

It seems Mick Jagger is a black cat.

Yesterday he was on USA match. USA out...
Today he was on England match. England out...

 :hihi:

yes oh fucking yes

As predicted, the English lambs were slaughtered. With the fight back in the first half, I thought they might reply in the second, but by the third goal they were pretty much out of it.
Beautiful football from Germany, although a colander of an English defence made their job easy.

How do you see Germany's future if Argentina defeats Mexico today (which I think it will happen)?

I fancy Argentina for the win. Germany have a very clinical approach which might be their undoing. As we progress, the matches get better and better. :drool:

From your lips to God's ears, Genesis.

After todays match I'd say Germany could easily beat Argentina. But it's so hard to say and that's the beauty of this game :) At the moment Germany is my favourite to win the whole tournament (although it has been since the beginning) and I just hope they don't get too confident. But the way they build up their attacks is just beautiful and finally they seem to have more than one player who can score. And their defence is fairly good too, even though Lahm made some weird mistakes today.

Just look at the way they move the ball and advance towards the opponent's goal.. beautiful.

yup ... gotta admit, I never saw that before :hihi:  but only because I never watch soccer unless the USA is playing  :P

You're not from the USA.  This is how 99.999% of Americans feel ....

(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/worldcup.jpg)


BUT WE ARE ALL STILL VERY VERY PROUD OF OUR TEAM AND THEIR EFFORT!!!  (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge13.gif)

the games get better and better, i hope tonights game continues the trend :)

England was my 2nd favourite team in this World Cup.

But I like Germany very much, and they played so beautifully, that I can't even get sad for England's loss.


Now, Argentina x Germany. THAT's a game I won't miss for ANYTHING in the world! :beer: :beer: :beer:

It's pretty much impossible to predict the winner for that one.

this is probably weird logic, but since Dirk Nowitzki is my favorite basketball player of all time and he is from Germany, I am gonna hop on the German bandwagon for the rest of the cup.... of course like Mick Jagger, i could be the curse of death.

I need to Google though and find out some more of the rules... I didn't understand yesterday why our player got a yellow card for tackling i guess its called, but i saw 4 or 5 times where Ghana did the exact same thing to us and didn't get a yellow card.

Oh God...

Jagger is in the stadium for Argentina - Mexico.


But well...as a guy from GNRLA said: if he's there to support Mexico we won't have any trouble   8) :hihi:

I can't believe Englands 2nd goal not being allowed, it was blatantly over the line.

Germany was the better side, yes. But with it being 2-2 at half time which is should of been, we may have been able to pressurize the germans more than we did in the second half.

And who knows what the result would have been if it was 2-2 at the interval.

Another referee mistake..





/jarmo

Yep.. the referees talked about the situation after the goal though but I guess they were sure it wasn't an offside.

Referee are humans but trying to not validate the goal LOOKING AT THE VIDEO SCREEN is stupid and is against the rules...


HIGUAIN  :beer:

well, isn't it against the rules for the refs to watch the big screens for calls? I think they saw it on the replay but aren't allowed to change the decision because they didn't actually see it when it happened


this must be the last tournament without extra refs for the penalty areas

That's what I'm talking about. They can't change the decision seeing the replay at the screen.

But it's just unbelievable that the ref didn't see it when it happened, it was so clearly an offside. We don't need any extra refs or videos for this kind of things, we just need three PROFESSIONAL refs.

Uhhm...did Tevez was off-side on the third??  :peace:

someone in the crowd is fucking with a green laser... i've seen it a couple of times, watch tevez head when he got subbed for veron

Same thing happened with Messi against Nigeria.

Ok...let's see next saturday.

This was cool

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt99/Bucketdude/bastardo.gif)

:hihi:

Go Carlitos go!  :beer:

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs001.ash2/33408_10150233884550201_356717225200_13524368_7982754_n.jpg)

Argentina, playing without Messi, goes to quarterfinals.

Next saturday is Messi's last chance to proove he has what its needed to be the best football player in history.

The World Cup has become a farce.

Ugh sad to see England get screwed like that on that goal.  I'm from the States and supported our team, but England was my secondary and they were finally coming alive against an insanely intense German team.  That definitely adds to the stress of continued play and it would have been nice to see both sides come out at the half with everything at 2.  Eh, this whole WC has been marred by bad officiating, more excessively this year it seems.

Regardless, Germany and Argentina will be one for the ages...can't wait for that one.

Referee errors are a part of football. People who really love football will always prefer arbitral errors rather than having football converted into fucking NFL where tv's, computers and all kind of cold and heartless things decide what it is and what it is not regarding crucial game situations.

Argentina was robbed by a mexican referee in 1990 world cup final in the 85th minute. That referee ended working for FIFA. We moved on.

And in the end, Argentina and Germany played a lot better than Mexico and England and they deserve to be in quartefinals. Argentina and Germany will play next saturday what it could actually be a world cup final.  :beer:

I don't see how it's so difficult to be allowed to look up at the screen for a second to see if a crucial goal was over the line or not. Surely it's common sense, it seems alien not to use it.

And yes it was a crucial goal, and I believe had it of gone into the second half 2 a piece, we had a good chance of clinching it.

Yes Germany was the better team in the second half and ran rings past us. But at the end of the second half I would say we was about equal, and just as Lampard scored that second goal, we was on fire.

Had that poor excuse for a linesman did his job and saw it was a goal, the second half may not have been so one sided.

It just gets me angry, especially since it wasn't even unclear whether it was over or not, it was over the line by miles.  :rant:

I second everything Esteban said.


Sure that, when it happens to our team, we'll get pissed off, we'll curse FIFA, the referees and whoever else. But in the end, it's football, that's how it is and how it has been since forever. It's part of the game.

The game has changed whether you like it or not.

I don't think the people who wrote the rules could've imagined a game that is like what we have today.

Are you saying the game isn't faster today than it was when they wrote the rules?


And since you can't change the rules because "that's how it has been since forever", how come they have experimented with other rules and changed them? Remember Golden goal?




/jarmo

I agree with Mandy and estebanf. Video replays will make it like Cricket, it'll just make it too mechanical. I wouldn't be against two additional refs behind the goals though. That will help with decisions like in the England game.


The thing is, teams should not be relying on one decision to make or break their game. You can argue that the Lampard decision would have made a difference, but I think it would have just been 4 - 2, the way they were playing.

nah cause when u are down u have to play a little more reckless, so if England are 2-2, maybe Germany don't score the additional goals.

There are lots of things I'd change, but I dont want to sound like the ignorant American who doesn't "Get" futbol"

Id change the clock and have it just simply stop on injuries,after goals are scored etc.. instead of just letting it tick tick tick and u having no idea how much time is left.

Nope I don't see it. One of England's worst World Cup teams against a young, in-form German side. They never would have won. They might have gotten away with it in the group stages but that's what the knock out round is about - separating the men from the boys. Anyway, this is sweet revenge for Germany for the 1966 final which England won 4 -2. A similar goal on the line was given in England's favour. Karma is a bitch.



This is roughly how it is, except that the time keepers are the referee and the fourth official. If the clock was communicated to the fans and players like you suggest, it would make it worse, with people diving left and right to waste time.

My main thing is though to have the replay only on a goal scoring situation.  That is it.  Like in playoff baseball.  It is only used on homeruns that are close to the pole or wall line and that's it.  If they were allowed to view that replay it wouldn't have taken but one short glance to say, "goooooal".  Bottom line we are a technological world now, embrace it.

That doesnt mean stopping the game every minute to review a foul......if there's a no goal, it take 30 seconds tops to review it.  Nuff said.  Better to embrace that.  Some of the horrible calls this year have absolutely warranted that.

The fact the game became faster than it was when the rules were written does not have anything to do with anything in this discussion. All sports are faster today: rugby is faster, tennis is faster, basketball is faster, swimming is faster and all olympic games are faster... that's simple evolution

football is the most beautiful sport in the world. The whole world except USA and maybe Faroe Islands think this, and a violent technology introduction will do nothing but harming that unique thing football has. Some referee errors are historic, and people remember them through the pass of time, and that's something that makes football more attractive. The level of referees so far in the world cup was BRILLIANT, you just cant ask changing the rules because of two or three big errors. As long as referees have no favouritism for any of the teams, everything's cool. Mistakes can affect both teams equally.

Football games results are decided by human beings acts, and that includes referees. Referees are a part of the game, and if you kept track of this world cup, the most emotional and attractive games so far were the ones where there were some referees errors. England was horribly favoured in 1966's world cup by referees, in more than one match (Germany and Argentina, the most obvious ones), Argentina was favoured in 1986 against England, Germany was favoured in 1990 and none of these historical and amazing matches could have been the same with a fuckin' TV telling the referee what to decide.

I really REALLY suggest Mexico and England to stop crying and to put all the emphasys they spend in blaming the referees in playing better and more aggresive. Mexico remembered you need to ATTACK to win matches when they were 0-3. And England lost FOUR to 1... you cant cry and blame the referee when you were terribly massacred by your opponent

Leave microphones, TV's, helmets, ''hawk eyes'' to that boring and 95% dead time 5% action called american football.

All you armchair critics who want to change the rules are missing the point of the game...

i think there are two points on this thing, first Mexico and England deserved to lose, im from Mexico and i think people has to be a good sport and accept the other team was better.  i hate when players strat fighting and arguing after the match like Mexico did today.

and the other thing its the point of Fifa not accepting new rules to make the game more accurate, the easier thing in my opinion its to have another referee watching the match in a tv and helping on important decisions like goals or offsides, it will be on the same instant, like in the game of Gremany vs England, in one second he would have given a signal that it was a valid goal,because if you see the tv is far mor easier, they would be conected with the main referee, only on big tournaments because i think Fifa its afraid of technology alienating not developed countries.

football has to be perfected, nobody is missing the point of the game because they are searching for a more acurrate ways of making the sport better.

Argentina : Germany will be a thrill...

Again, we don't need any extra referees or goal cameras.. we just need three professional referees and that's all. If we really don't have them in the biggest football tournament, maybe the goal cameras are the only solution then. But what will be after that.. two minute penalties for minor fouls..? Maybe they should play on ice with skates so the game would be faster..? Or how about checking every foul and offside from the screen just to be sure..? Oh now I know! 3 points if you score from outside the penalty box!

Referees are under just as much pressure as the players and the coaches on the World Cup stage. What is a 'professional' referee in your opinion? One that does not make mistakes? Everyone makes mistakes, especially when you have only a split second to take a decision.

We can discuss this rules thing fro ages. Referees mistakes sometimes go against you and sometimes the opposite... Just stop criying and try to play well and score goals.

England has been playing HORRIBLE during all the WC and Germany was giving them a nice lesson.

And Mexico payed their poor efficency to score agains Argentina.

Charly Tevez man of the match!!!

True, but in my opinion some of these referees are not experienced enough to be in this tournament.. they haven't been in the "big games" long enough yet. And can you seriously say that all the referees have been good enough in this tournament? Argentinas first goal yesterday? England no goal? USA no goals? It's not about flagging an offside wrong or doing a minor mistake here or there.. these were major mistakes and in football one goal means so much, especially at the knock-outs. It's true that the refs only have like a second to make the decision and they have to do it like they think is right. But hey, at least the England no goal was so clearly a goal that a professional referee should have seen it. Seriously.

After thinking about this, maybe a "goal referee" would not be that bad. Standing behind the goal with a flag or something. That way the game wouldn't be slowed down and there's no need for a video checking.

Interesting read:

Goal-line technology firms dispute Fifa claims (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10435958.stm)

At least ice hockey fans aren't as rabidly against using some aids to make the right calls....  :hihi:



My whole point is that it's not fair in any way to allow goals and disallow others when all of them should be allowed (or disallowed in other cases).

It's become a lottery when that happens.


I'm naive enough to think that people would want a game that's more fair? Less diving for penalties, less wrong goal decisions....


England and Mexico both lost because they didn't play good enough. But it's interesting how both of them had wrong decisions going against them.



/jarmo

But USA won their group though. Anyway you're right and I'm totally with you.. I just hope that they're not ruining the flow of the game with these possible changes.

Well I never knew that... Crikey.

Yeah, people who still drive on the wrong side of the road are in charge. No wonder no changes will occur.  :P

 :hihi:




/jarmo

Indeed. The ethos of those who would see the rules unchanged, no doubt!

Traditionalists to death, why change something!, even if it is clearly broken.  ;)

Man could not move long distances "forever" so we saddled horses.

Horses STILL couldn't cover enough ground, so we created trains.

Trains weren't good for local transport, so we created cars.

Neither trains, nor cars, could cover enough ground, quickly enough, so we created planes.

Granted, the above is oversimplified, but the excuse that "it's been that way forever" is, frankly, a cop out.  Getting calls wrong doesn't add to the charm of your sport, or instil nostalgia, or make the game more "quaint" and loveable. 

As for the FIFA argument that it "makes the game different" across levels of the sport...well, yeah.  But then, the guy playing Sunday league isn't exactly competing on a world stage, bringing in millions and millions of dollars, with a World Cup on the line, is he?   When I play in our local basketball league...we get 2 fat, uneducated, local refs who can barely run up and down the court and a broken down scoreboard.  We don't have replay.  We don't have monitors showing the details of every movement of our players.  But we also don't have 15 thousand people willing to pay to watch us play, we're not making millions of dollars in salary, and our best shooter isn't going to play like Lebron or Kobe.  We still have fun, though and play to the best of our ability.  We still play basketball.....the rules are the same, the basket is still 10 feet off the floor, the court is still layed out to regulation specs.  It's just the implementation is more in line with the importance, quality, and fiscal relevance of play.

So what?

Yes, back in the 70's and 80's you dealt with bad officiating because there really was no recourse or technology ON THE FIELD that could make it better.  Now, there is.  So you bury your head (and I'm not directing this tirade at you, really, Mandy) in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist because...???

If we can't do something right, we find a better way to do it.  And that involves using every method and bit of technology reasonably possible to use.  And it's not like soccer/futbol/footie would be the first sport, EVER, to make use of this kind of technology.  You don't want instant replay because it slows down the game or might make for ridiculous amounts of injury/stoppage time, fine.  But we're not talking about that.  We're talking about tech for GOALS only, and only to determine if a ball has crossed into the net or not.  That still leaves plenty of room for bad officiating/the human element/crooked refs to have their (un)due influence.

But for pete's sake....this type of thing doesn't make the sport endearing.  It makes it infuriating.  It doesn't bring fans in, it drives them away.  Why would you want to do that, and how can that possibly be in the best interests of the game?


Edit:

Good article:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37959424/ns/sports-world_cup/

We are not talking about fouls and maybe even hand balls, because that's all a matter of opinion. And that's the referees job to determine.

But whether the ball has gone over the line is factual, and it can only be one way or another.

So, if the referee is unsure, what harm can it do to call upon video evidence which will take a maximum of 5 seconds.  :P

Also, it's not as if FIFA has to pay alot out to do this. All the games at the world cup are documented in one way or another, and the BBC did a perfect job of getting a good view of Englands goal that never was.

Oh, Pilferk, for God's sakes...

Why does the post that I agree with the most, on a footballing matter, have to come from the mouth (or the keyboard) of a Yank!, rather than from those cradles of football that are Argentina and Brasil!

Damn you!

The two techs mentioned in the article I linked to both say they have a message to a ref (either their watch, or an earpiece) in .5 seconds.  That is not a typo:  HALF a second!

No unnecessary stoppage time. And then, if you feel the need to "review the review"...TEHN you're talking about an additional 5 seconds, max.

Quick, easy, and pretty painless.

As for money:  Rolex sponsors the tech in most of the tennis matches.  I'm SURE you could find a big name sponsor (the COKE GOAL MONITOR!) to help foot (if you'll excuse the pun) the bill.

The way I look at it is this:

If it's obvious enough that a Yank and a Limey can both see it, and agree......it's gotta be pretty damn obvious!  Especially when it concerns football!

For God's sake! You guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!! This is a bunch of nonsense.

This is what football should really be like: http://bit.ly/9W9p58



Seriously, though:


That's why I think there should be a couple of extra referees in the game, behind the goals. I'm not against a change of rules, sure lots of things have changed from the 1930's to how football is nowadays, but if something's gotta be changed, then I think that's the best option. If my memory serves me correctly, FIFA discussed this in the beginning of the year, for this World Cup, but then they changed their minds.

Humans are much more failable than machines.  That's not to say the machines get it right 100% of the time....but they get it 99.99%. Evidence-wise, tech outperforms man in these situations.  So the only justification for using people, instead of machines, is to "preserve the human element" and "because" it's always been that way.

As for FIFA's review:  Sorry, just because FIFA says it's so, doesnt' mean it's so.  They can be wrong...and, in this case, I think they are.  They might not change their minds, but until they get a little more progressive, in this respect, they're going to, routinely, be a laughing stock.   Like they are right now.

They're actually doing a disservice to their own sport.  I don't care what dinosaurs are installed in that capacity....no matter how "tech phobic" or set in their ways they are...these types of discussions are bad for their sport.  It detracts from the field of play, and from the athletes who are busting their asses out there for their countries.  They have to take SOME sort of action.  Tech would work best...adding refs would be a stop gap. 

But really, aren't refs behind the goals just doing the lineman's job for them?  Aren't you, at that point, admitting they need assistance?  If you need assistance, why not get the best assistance you can?

Not really. Linemans could concentrate on offsides, corners/goal kicks/throw-ins and fouls while these extra refs are there only to tell if the ball is in the goal or not. That would do it in my opinion. And for the record, it's not that common situation where the ball is in the goal but it's not seen by any of the refs. So I don't think we need any new technology for it, an extra referee behind the net would be enough and pretty damn reliable in my opinion. In this tournament the bigger problem has been these offside situations like yesterday (Argentinas first goal) and there's no technology to fix that problem (unless if we really want to kill the flow of the game).

i'm all for reviewing calls to get them right, especially on goals. there's like an average of 1.5 goals scored per game....you should get that part of the game right.

Wimbleton has similar tradition and old-school mentality, but they adopted the electronic sensors to get the call right on serves. the technology is there....why not use it?

just as the refs now use headsets to communicate with each other and with the additional "refs" who are sitting in the booth. that's a pretty significant technological change FIFA adopted.

but England lost because they are an over-rated, over-hyped, poorly-coached, collection of prima-donnas that does not know how to play like a team. instead of crying about the refs, don't fall behind 2 nil!  :hihi:

Thing is, even if FIFA agrees only to goal-line tech, refs will still be responsible the other 99% of things that decide game outcomes.  Like the 2 U.S. goals disallowed (one for offsides, the other who knows), also the Thierry Henry handball that got France into the WC. 

 

Great point. The thing that happened yesterday, where the ball entered but the ref didn't see it, almost never happens, compared to other stuff like, players being offside, penalties not given, or wrongly given, players faking, etc, etc. So, you know, why have technology for that one little thing and not have it for a bunch of other stuff that's also important and counts a lot to the final score? That's the point. It makes no sense having technology for that only. And if you have it for everything else too, it would take all the fun away from football having every little thing computerized.

Mandy, the fun isnt on referees. Its on the game. The match wont be any less fun if less mistakes happens.

Also, I guess it would need at least one extra person to also judge the extra footage - which would make it a lot more subjetive than you guys are saying.

Another great game from Brazil.

My favourite player so far in this tournament is Luis Fabiano, I think he is Brazils' new Ronaldo. I fancy Brazil to win this world cup, even if it means taking down Argentina.  ;D

Voodoo, I know the fun isn't on referees, but it's part of the fun, having that kind of discussion. It's what Esteban said a few posts back. Years from now, people will still be talking about those crucial mistakes. Some people will agree, some won't, and there'll be endless discussions about it. It's part of the beauty that surrounds football and its fans.




One.In.A.Million: I like Luis Fabiano a lot too. He was very criticized by the Brazilian press a few months before the World Cup, but he gained my respect in the Confederation's Cup. I like him very much. :yes:

It will, if everything needs to be checked from the screen.

Not everybody thinks discussing mistakes is fun.


As I said, I don't think it's fair or sportsmanlike to have games decided by mistakes that could be prevented.

Having some kind of system to eliminate the wrong calls regarding goals doesn't remove anything from the game itself.

It just eliminates all the "what if" discussions that some of you seem to enjoy.





/jarmo

I know our purist and most beloved game is Major League Baseball and hell they even finally broke down and started using instant replay on Home Runs etc cause they were getting them wrong.

It isn't like it would delay the game either. the time a team celebrates etc would give the refs sufficient time to check a quick replay.

enough with the ref/goal camera talks eh?

Mexico's Hernandez joins Man Utd next season and Fabiano has expressed interest in joining as well. That would be something.

you don't need to change a great deal. but football is more than sport now days it's big business

england going out where they did has cost the UK close to a billion pounds in terms of lost revenue in bars/pubs, sports stores etc.

human error is one thing, but if ice hockey which is a much faster sport can use video replays then football should be able to. 4th official can see it on a screen on the side of the pitch from a few angles and make a decision, if the game has played on it simply continues if it's not a goal, if it was then play stops and restarts as it would if the goal was scored.

we were shockingly bad for the first half hour.

though i love the irony that germany's first goal was scored "kick and rush" to use the kaisers words....

but as D said, if we go in to half time 2-2 it's a different game, john terry wouldn't have been trying to run past players into the german penalty area. so germany wouldn't have been able to break so easily and score a 3rd and 4th goal.

well done to the germans though, i hope the argies dump them out next round  :hihi:

Totally different situation. Totally different game. Ice hockey match is stopped every time there's a foul or something or even to let the sponsors advertise their products, football match is only stopped for the half-time. That's called the flow of the game. There's no flow in hockey. And in football the fourth official has no priviledge to watch any video screens or replays, that's a rule. I still think the best solution is the extra referee behind the net.. reliable and not expensive.

What I mean is: Right NOW, isn't it the lineman's job to watch the goal line?

And wouldn't adding extra refs be the same as admitting the lineman needs help? 

And, since you've gone that far (which is one of the things FIFA objects to....they think it "insults" the officials, as it stands), why not just give them the best help possible?  As in, a technological solution.

And they wouldn't need NEW tech.  That's the point.   There is tech, already, that can do it.  And it's more reliable....that's a fact, now, not an opinion...than any human can be.  That's the point.

As for it being "infrequent".....especially in World Cup play, ANYTHING missed is a big deal.  When many games have only a goal or two scored, total.....missing ONE is a big deal.  Especially when you don't HAVE to miss any.

I agree that England was outplayed.  That's a different issue, and really seperate from the bad call.

That's simply not true.

There are lots of examples (tennis, baseball) where they've limited the use of technology.  It actually  works very well, and makes a LOT of sense.

The issue with computerizing everything is that you would certainly slow down the pace of the game. 

Instituting goal line tech wouldn't, though.  And it would solve at least ONE of the issues with officiating. 

It doesn't make sense to say "Since we can't solve ALL the problems, we shouldn't solve ANY of them".....

"Extra footage" meaning "stoppage/injury time"? 

Both techs mentioned in the article I linked to have a response to the ref in 1/2 a second.    That shouldn't be an issue.

Or do you mean, if you add a ref to monitor the goal line, THEY would have to determine stoppage time, which starts making it all a bit more subjective?

So what you're saying is:  You want the sport remembered for it's catestrophically bad officiating?

Sorry, that makes no sense to me.  I'd much rather talk about the on the field play, rather than the officials incompetence.  The best officials, actually, aren't noticed AT ALL.  They simply enforce the rules.

It's not always about getting the 'correct' decision. Refereeing decisions going against you is an extra variable that players have to take into account in football. There are situations where a bad decision late in injury time have snatched victory away from teams, but those situations are rarer still. In both the England and Mexico matches, that certainly was not the case. You can argue with a million 'what if's', but the fact is both those teams lost because they didn't play well. Besides, no one complains when the incorrect decisions go their way.

But you can't compare football to tennis or basketball. The only great technical solution for football is the hawkeye-thing that is currently in use in some of the tennis matches, but do we really need that complicated and expensive system? One referee behind the net watching the goal line.. what's wrong with that? And using videos is not good because the footage is not always as good as in this particular case, nor is the goal always so clear. So in my opinion the video checking is the worst possible choice there is. Extra referees being the best one. Hawkeye would be great as it wouldn't affect the game as much as video, but believe me, that would not end the discussion about whether the ball was in or not. Just like in tennis. Plus it's pretty expensive too.

And if FIFA starts using videos, are they only going to watch if the ball was in or not.. 'cause there are always these offsides that lead to a goal for example.. are they going to check them too? If they are, then they should be checking wrongly flagged offsides also. What if it wasn't an offside? Freekick for the attacking team? Even if FIFA says that the video is used only to  check the goal line, after a couple of "extra important offside goals" people are going to demand FIFA to use the video in those kind of situations too just because "why not do it if it's possible, we can all see it in the television".. and that leads to another case and so on..

oh please, every free-kick, throw in, corner, goal kick, there is enough time to watch 5 seconds of footage. it would also cut out the diving because players know they would be caught doing it.

also every pro game is taped, so therefor every pro game has the opportunity to have a 4th official with a screen on the sideline.

but your extra officials idea can't work there can only be 4 officials "that's a rule" rules change just like the offside rule has, how about bookings for removing the shirt, that didn't happen untill the late 90's, tackles from behind being straight yellows, early 2000's, 2 footed tackles straight reds only brought in the later part of the last decade.

so to say "that's a rule" is pointless, they change, and they should change to improve the game, why pay 2 extra officials when the technology is there already to show the 4th official exactly what happened, there is so much at stake now, it seems crazy not to get the major decisions spot on.

and like i pointed out it doesn't need to interupt the flow, the 4th official can watch it and tell the referee, what happened.


oh and in the stanley cup final there was a questionable goal, and instead of stopping play to check they continued for almost 5 minutes untill a break then checked it was a good goal so they went back from there and restarted the game accordingly, not interupting the flow at all.

with football you wouldn't need to wait the 4th official could judge seconds after.

there are no good reasons for not introducing technology to help the officials.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but enough of that now paraguay japan, predictions anyone?

myself i say 3-1 paraguay.

Why ever not?  Same sorts of problems, similar solutions.  You can't discount the comparison for no logical reason. 


Not true.  There's also the chipped ball tech.  Less expensive, equally reliable.


Because humans are, as evidenced, much more likely to fail.  Either solution (hawkeye or chipped ball) has, in extensive testing, proven to be more reliable than the human eye.  That's good enough for me.  "Reliable enough" isn't a solution, it's a stop gap.....

If you acknowledge there is a problem, and it needs a solution...why not opt for the one(s) that has proven to be best/most reliable?


Hawkeye IS video, it's just high tech video.  And it pretty much ends the discussion in tennis....as soon as they show the findings.  I haven't seen or heard of any real rumblings about Hawkeye reliability in YEARS.

And, in relative terms, it's NOT that expensive.  Add to that the opportunity to find a sponsor for it (which means it would cost little to nothing to implement...and trust me, you'd find a sponsor) and the argument just sounds like rationalization. 


Extensive use of video replay is NOT something I've advocated for.  I agree, it would slow down the pace and flow of the game.  The only thing I've really argued for is either Hawkeye or chipped ball tech for GOALS only.  And neither of those solutions would (or could) be transferred to other uses.  So you kill any rally cries for what you're supposing may happen.

Again, the argument: "If we can't solve all the problems, we shouldn't solve ANY" just seems not to make sense.

See, that's where we'll part company.  I don't think having to account for bad officiating should be a routine "part of the game", nor does it make the game more exciting, more viable, more charming, or anything else.

The refs are there to enforce the rules.  They are not meant to be any more than that.   You should have to beat the opposing teams keeper, and their defense.  You should not have to plan how to defeat the officials errors/incompetence/mistakes. 

I agree that England and Mexico BOTH deserved to lose their matches, regardless of the bad calls.  Neither played all that well.

But again, that's a different discussion.  I'm not a fan of either of those teams, really....so this isn't an an "angry itch" rearing it's head.   For me, this is simply a discussion of the events, not the outcomes.

That's a good point on costs:  With extra officials, you pay 2 extra people for EVERY MATCH.

With Hawkeye or Chipped ball, you pay the upfront costs, and maintenance (maybe) but no ongoing costs other than that.  It's fixed, and front loaded, to some extent.

The manpower is variable and perpetual.

Have you ever watched football Alan? 'Cause there is no time to watch any video footage after/before every throw-in/corner/goal-kick/free-kick. What if the player want's to give the free-kick instantly? That's a huge part of football isn't it? And it's not the fourth officials job to watch the videos, he has his own responsibilities already and he's not the one who would do the video checking, and this has been said by people who work with the referees in this tournament and know these things. Yes, rules can change but I think the video checking only brings us more problems than it can ever solve. Plus it's not the most efficient way to check goals either, hawkeye is way better/faster/more reliable.

In my opinion the only thing that needs any improvement is checking whether the ball was in or not. Offsides are linemens responsibilities and they don't need any videos for it if they are professional and can keep up with the speed of the game. I just hate it if FIFA thinks that video is the ONLY possible solution there is. These extra refs have been tested already and results have been great. So where are they now? Nowhere. And why not hawkeye then..

But yeah let's give it a rest. I missed the first half of Paraguay-Japan, but I heard there was some good opportunities on both sides. I hope that Paraguay wins, it's the only South American team I actually like :hihi:

(http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1035133489/OOA.jpg)

season ticket holder for 15 years.


though if more players where honest like arshavin, it would cut out the need for technology greatly.

First penalty shoot out of the tournament. Poor Komano. Japan played well, but somebody had to lose.

I feel bad for anyone who misses at a penalty shootout, and costs their country progress into the next round. It must feel like you've let everyone down, but a game needs to be decided one way or another.

Japan played well though, and so did Paraguay.

That game was pretty boring....




/jarmo

In lots of sports, I'm all for "sudden death"...you play til someone scores.

Not so in football/soccer.....those guys looked dead on their feet at the end of play.  I couldn't imagine trying to kick after having played that long.  My legs would be rubber.

So long for Asian teams! Not bad for South America, 4 out of 8! : ok:

South America going pretty strong in this tournament, we'll see what happens in the next round. So far Spain-Portugal has been pretty interesting as both teams have had their chances and it's pretty hard to say who's closer to win. I hope it's Spain though..

One disgusting team had to win today and I'm glad it was Spain.. my bet is still going strong :P The red card was totally stupid, I mean.. c'mon.. Spanish don't need to fake that bad, they're good enough to win without it. Many say that the goal was an offside as it looked like one, but it wasn't. Tthe lack of replays didn't really help stopping the speculation though.

Last four teams standing will be Ghana, Germany, Holland and Spain. No room for the South American ones :hihi:

That reeks of wishful thinking.  :hihi:

Yeah, what was with the lack of replays, both of the goal ('offside') and the sending off...

... A FIFA directive on controversial decisions?

We'll see about that. :hihi:


For me, the last four standing will be Uruguay, Germany, Brazil and Spain.

Spain and Portugal fall over and cheat too much. Portugal are worse, but it would be a travesty if Spain won.

Brazil have done well to date. I'd like to see the Netherlands go through, but I cannot see it happening.

I think Germany/Argentina will be a high scoring game. Both teams have mediocre defences.

Ghana should also be in the semi finals.

Next friday the dutch will kick some brazilian ass ;)

Somehow I very much doubt that... we shall see 8)

I'm confident Brazil will go all the way, I don't see anyone who can challenge them on their all round play. I'm also happy that I have found Luis Fabiano during this World Cup, he is just amazing on the ball. He is also good with his hands too :hihi:.

But joking aside, I feel Brazil will be very hard to beat in this tournament.  : ok:

Obviously...

I don't think they want to be reminded of how faulty their system really is.

Which apparently is just how it should be according to those who like to remember the games by the mistakes made by the referees instead of the actual game....



Another game that was decided by a very suspicious call.

Spain was the better team though.




/jarmo

I...

And the award for The Most Unique Opinion (in the world?) of the Week is awarded to...

I just couldn't bear to get involved after that point was made. It scrambles my mind.

I still haven't actually seen a replay of the goal from a vantage in line with the last defender. Not even post-match!

It is a good thing for football in general that Spain went though (and also for my work sweepstake ;)).

I saw a still image of the moment the pass was given and it wasn't an offside.


Who want's to remember the games by the mistakes? Those who don't wan't every single offside or faking to be checked from the screen? I think there was no mistakes made by the referees in this game. Only the red card seemed a bit stupid as there was no good replay of the possible hit.

Do you think that the goal should have been checked from the video? What if the lineman would have flagged it before the goal was made and Spanish players start protesting 'cause it would have been a great scoring chance for them.. would the refs have to check the offside from the screen then too? What would happen if they decide that it wasn't an offside?

If they are going to check the possible offsides that lead to a goal, they have to check flagged offsides too. That's the only fair way I see it, but it would change the game dramatically and slow it down. So I don't see any reason to start using videos in offside situations.

As for faking, it happens. Shit happens. It's not always fair, but if you look back like 10 years the difference is huge. It has been cut down pretty much and the refs should keep the cards coming for those who can't stand on their feet. I came across this article that had a nice point on this matter.. as every game is checked afterwards by the officials, they could give some penalty after the game for the real bad fakers. Like a fine or something.. that would cut the faking down even more as there's the fear of getting caught. We've seen some really stupid faking in this tournament and I can't believe they're getting away with it.

(http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/multimedia/dynamic/01227/offside-or-not_1227781b.jpg)


...

I think there was a discussion earlier about how some people love discussing the wrong calls and remember them years afterward. Which I thought was ridiculous.






There's no video to check from...

If FIFA decides to try out some kind of video system, they should go for it.


I'm more concerned about goals not being allowed when they should.

Offside calls are another matter all together.






If they can overturn penalties after the game, I don't see why they can't do something about the diving.

Maybe if players knew that they can get punished after the game, they might be more careful....






/jarmo

FIFA was right to apologise and they had to really as it would have looked awfull.

I feel sorry for our boys, we was robbed if the truth be told. People have been saying how Germany would have won anyway, but that's not true at all.

After Lampard scored our 2nd, we was on fire and to be honest Germany looked scared as hell. We would have gone into the 2nd half not chasing the game, but equal, meaning we could have sat comfortably on the score, and defended.

But because we was chasing the game unfairly as it should have been 2-2, we had to attack, thus leaving our defence vulnerable.

(FIFA, make the right decision and introduce video technology for Christ sake.) :rant:

my guesses for quarterfinals:

Uruguay - Ghana
Argentina - Germany
Brazil - Netherlands
Spain - Paraguay

That would mean Argentina and Brazil in the final IMO. But i must admit the most difficult match to guess a winner is Argentina - Germany. Both teams have decent midfields, pretty weak defenses and incredibly powerful forwards. Argentina's little advantage could be an hipothetical Messi explosion (he was pretty much absent all the world cup except for the first match against Nigeria)

Argentina has the best player in the world, probably one of the 3 best players in football history, but he's not showing up yet for one reason or another. Argentina can predict Germany's movements, and Germany can predict Argentina's. But Argentina has one unpredictable factor, which is precisely Barcelona's #10. All our hope is now in him.

Ozil, Schweinsteiger, klose, Podolski are great players as Higuain, Tevez, Di Mar?a and Mascherano are. Germany is a very strong team. You can lose against them, but you wont be surprised for their playing. Argentina has Messi. And there's nothing you can plan or practice to stop him if he's in a good day like he's always in Barcelona.

In other words: i think they're both strong and solid teams. Germany seems to me a little stronger. But Argentina has the ace of spades. I really hope we can use it.

Yeah that England disallowed goal was just criminal. those refs had some gambling debts to pay off.

I am not a fan of penalty kicks either.

Something this prestigious should be settled on the field.

i would love to watch a final between Argentina and Brazil.

i think Argentina is much more than Messi, he is a great player, but in Barcelona he has more space to move and to run, he hasnt show anything really great with Argentina, and i think a good defense knows how to stop him, he is really quick but he only uses his left leg and almost always break to the left to have that advantage.  but they have Tevez, Higuain and other great forwards who can use the advantage of the players that go afainst Messi to be less marked on the field.

That's not the moment the pass was given! This situation was replayed and stopped so many times on TV that I could, and everybody in the studio could, say it wasn't an offside.


I totally agree. Messi has had a long season yes, but I think he's not the most important player for his team at the moment. Of course he's the captain and his absence must be important but as you said; they have Tevez and Higuain for example.

It's going to be very interesting game between Argentina and Germany. I believe and hope that Germany will come out as the winner and it won't be any 1-0 or 2-1 game either :P

it's the moment where the ball lefts xavi's foot. it's offside, i couldn't care less what they say in the finnish studio :rofl:


messi surely isn't one of the 3 best players in football history, that's hilarious.. if he can keep up and win several world cups then i will agree with you, right now he's a long behind pele, maradona, zidane and ronaldo (not cristiano) just to name a few

other than that i agree with you.. though i hope germany wins, i've fallen in love with their playing and some new young players which to me is where the fun is in world cups, on the top of my head personally discovering for example ronaldo, rivaldo and zidane in 98 ronaldinho, klose in 2002, lahm, schweinsteiger, podolski in 2006 and now ?zil and m?ller in this years is what makes me love football

if argentina proves to be the better team then i won't lose any sleep and i will be happy for you argentinians :)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/worldcup2010/3035239/Cristiano-Ronaldo-in-spit-shame-after-World-Cup-knockout.html

Does this remind anyone of what Wayne Rooney said after the England - Algeria game.  :hihi:

But I have to stick up for Ronaldo with this.

He never spat onto the camera man, just down at the floor, as to say leave me alone. Which is understandable as his team has just been knocked out of the world cup, and the camera man is in my view testing his patience by sticking a camera in his face for 30 secs.

No, it's not ;D There's like a huge gap between his foot and the ball already. And by the way, it wasn't the Finnish studio : ok: The moment the pass was given, the defender was at the same line with Villa.

Damn, I just can't keep it up with this thread. The discussion about the use of "technology" (you know, video tape isn't really a new thing :hihi:) will be on FIFA now, anyways.

About the Brazil x Argentina.. I guess that would be like a perfect ending for a business standpoint. Everybody wants that, it never happened in a World Cup before. I don't have enough trust in Brazil yet, so I don't really see it happening until we can win over Netherlands.

BTW, the 1998 match between Brazil and Netherlands was one of my favorite World Cup moments. I had so much fun that year, even if we lost for France. Hell, I was only 18 back then, that explains a lot. :P

That's the first World Cup I watched and Brazil-Holland is one of the games I remember from that time. I've always been a fan of Holland and Germany so there's no question about who I'd like to win this time :ok: It won't be easy though, Holland hasn't played as good as they should/could and especially they have problems with the defence. I'm glad they have a great goalie :P But I'm afraid that even if Holland score like two or three goals it might not be enough for a win. Usually these European team vs. South American team -matches are pretty entertaining at this point of the tournament.

no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQVuQD3120&feature=player_embedded

Ok so someone "copied" the situation to a 3D model which says that it was an offside by 22cm :hihi: So you think this 22cm should (could) have been spotted?
Anyway, here's for Portugal going home :beer:

I just came from a local derby match and there were some idiots with vuvuzelas. The sound is even louder than I expected. Now I really understand why the players can't here the whistle every time..

I know it couldn't have been spotted by the linesmen, it's not his fault by any means. It was still offside though and that has been my point the whole time :P

"Nigerian president, Goodluck Jonathan was so disgusted by his teams performance in the world cup that he has suspended the national team for two years!"

http://www.soccerjones.com/soccer-news/world-cup/bye-bye-nigeria-literally

Do they think they're Argentina, Brazil or something? THEY'RE NIGERIA FOR GOD SAKE! Leaving the tournament in the first phase is not that weird for teams like Nigeria...

Countries with corrupt governments tend to do these sorts of things to bolster their image.


Umm...and France.    :beer:

Dear God, let it go already. If the offside is marginal, the assistant referee is well within his rights to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side if they have an opportunity to score. Do people see the problem if video replays are introduced? We'll have arguments like this saying that it was offside by 2 cm, 3D models proving it and what not. Way to kill a game.

If benefit of the doubt to the offense leads to more scoring and, as a reaction, less attempting to trap offside and more playing the ball...well, I'm all for it.

i hope tomorrows games are better than the standard so far, this has to be one of the worst world cups ever, and certainly the worst i've ever seen.

fucking LOL genesis

in instances where the "right" call is somewhat subjective and could be up for debate, there should be no replay. the NFL has used replay extensively, and overall it's been a success. but they have never allowed pass interference calls to be reviewed, because there is alot of subjectiveness in making that call. offsides is more black and white, but there are so many instances of questionable offsides calls, that would be overkill. and it would drastically slow the game down.

i believe FIFA should follow the NHL's example. replays for goals only, handled immediately by someone sitting in front of a replay screen. it should take less than a minute to review and unlike hockey, the game should be stopped immediately if it is determined a goal was scored (but ruled no goal on the field).   

That seems right to me.  The key thing will be to avoid disrupting the flow of the game. 

True. Nothing to remember this tournament by, except France and Italy going home after the group stage and the referee mistakes. I hope these last rounds are going to offer something great to all of us.

Two whole days without games suck!! :(

I agree, I will be glued to my tv to watch Brazil beat the Netherlands.  ;D

Yes, but HOW AWESOME are the matches that are coming! Brazil - Netherlands, Argentina - Germany, Paraguay - Spain! :peace:

They just played Welcome to The Jungle on the news while speaking about Brazil x Holland. :hihi:

Blah, I'm going to miss the second half of Brazil-Holland as I have my own match at the same time.

Go Oranje :beer:

... 2-1? Come on boys !!

Oh!, why did Murrary/Nadal have to clash with Holland/Brazil...

... Yeah, the tennis went off a little while ago. I'm not missing this for the world!

Bye Brazil  :peace:  ;D

Holy shit....


Brazil was the better team, but Holland scored more goals!

No matter how big favorite you are, you need to score more goals than the opponent.




/jarmo

Today was a good example of how the better team by miles can still lose a game.

I thought Brazil outplayed Holland in every part of the game, even defensively. Brazil scored straight off the bat then had a goal disallowed. And then a few twist of fates, where the Brazilians had bad luck which cost them dearly.

I still can't believe they are out, as I still feel they are the best team in this tournament. I think even Holland are not sure how they won that one, they were clearly the worse team.

Thank you Brazil for the amazing football you have shown in this tournament, you're still the best.

Bullshit. They were better for the first twenty minutes. after that it was a tie with brazil having the upperhand. The second half brazil was nowhere. As professional they were in the first 20 minutes they were extremely childish the second half. And that's a fact. Crying like babies. Not knowing what to do and kick with the purpose of causing in injury. Makes you look like a fool. Also they've played brazil 4 times during a world champion of wich they won twice and lost twice. So this is not a historical day. It's exactly what I expected ;)

Fuck all the pessimistic people. Especially the unrealistic pessimistic dutch people.

What a shocker. Brazil threw away that game. Both goals were defensive mistakes, Holland just had to keep the pressure on.

The second wasn't. If you count that as a defensive mistake. Which goal isn't?

It was hardly gotten through some clever play. It was a free header, with the Brazilian defense just watching Sneijder head the ball in. Holland recovered from their first mistake while Brazil didn't.
You have to feel sorry for Felipe Melo. Set up the first goal, conceded the second and got himself sent off.

fuck no, feeling sorry for someone doing shit like that?

I feel a bit sorry for maicon, lucio and others but not melo, no way.. he's even to blame

I meant for the situation he's put himself in. It was a stupid mistake, but I don't think it was done with any malice. If you look at the replay, he's so focused on getting the ball, he doesn't even realize Robben's leg is in the way. The second goal was more of the goalkeeper's fault than anything else.

Tristesa nao tem fin  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Holland played better in the second half an Brazil lost control. A deserved defeat...  :hihi:

Go Argentina tomorrooooow!!!  :beer:

Yeeeeees, ORANJE! ;D

I was so happy when the news came that Holland had scored 2-1. Oooooooh wonderful!

Dunga is no longer the coach. Thanks God.

We deserved it. We had much better players here, but Dunga didnt change his arrogant mind. Kaka seemed as useless as Christiano Ronaldo for Portugal - what difference it makes if you can't score a goal? I mean, he sure helped against Cote d'Ivory (I dunno how to spell that), but when we all really needed, he didn't make it.

So true. Everybody here knew that would happen: Felipe Melo is well known for his lack of anger management. And guess what? That's exactly what happened.


At least write in proper Portuguese. Its "Tristeza n?o tem fim". :P

My itention was to write it in "argentinian" LOL  :hihi:

One more reason to hate Uruguay. Fucking Suarez.

That was absolutely disgusting from Uraguay.

Ghana worked like hell, and finally in the last minute scored, only for an idiot to handball it off the line. If I had my way, I would have sent the handballer off and awarded the goal to Ghana, thus making Ghana win.

It was such a horrible act from the Uraguyan, it was impossible to stop the header, so he handballed it blatantly.

Ghana got robbed tonight, I just hope Holland knock the hell out of Uraguay, such a cheating team. I'm just mortified that Ghana scored with the header, only for the cheat to handball it, what a shame for Ghana.  :rant:

Talk about unfair....





/jarmo

And Suarez was celebrating in the tunnel after the penalty. That's just sad. I mean.. I would be so fucking ashamed. Glad I'm not from Uruguay.

Yeah but...who's in the semifinals now?

Forget "fair" or "unfair". This is football, this is for men.  This is football, not a moral contest.

There was a red card, there was a penalty. THAT'S FAIR.


Anyway... you can talk and talk but Uruguay is in semifinals.


I can't wait for my country against Germany tomorrow...

i'm sure you would say and react the exact same way if the exact same thing happened tomorrow

and he's from my favorite team (Ajax) losers like him should play for PSV or something. I hoped Ghana wouldve made it to the semis just because they worked their asses off and because they would be the first african team and all

Fair? You think that a goal and a place in the semifinals is the same thing as a possible goal and a possible place in the semifinals? Like I said, I'd be so fucking ashamed at the moment..

Oooohhh I hope that Holland beats the hell out of those fuckers.

Yes. It was fair there was a penalty given. Unfair was the not scored goal to England, for example

I think you should read the rules and you'll see that WAS COMPLETELY FAIR. You touch the ball with your hand in the area: Penalty. If the guy on the other team doesn't score...IS HIS PROBLEM...NOT MINES


I repeat: it's football, not a moral contest.

Yeah it's football, so you're not supposed to use your hands unless you're a goalkeeper or a complete fuckface from South America.

germany will probably win with a penalty kick which shouldn't be a penalty kick cause by a schwalbe in the 87th minute or so.

But 100% for Argentinia in this one. :p

Oh kaasupoltin, I think someone got cranky...I think you should be punished for that. "fuckface"...is that necessary? Why do you insult to the people of south america? You're lucky that Jarmo have the same (and wrong) vision of football than you.

Anyway...I can see why we, "fuckfaces from south america", are the kings of this sport.  We are men, and we play like men, we want to win at any cost and that's what men do.

It's not like it was a handball just in the penalty area, it was a WINNING GOAL.

Ghana was robbed by a twat who thought "I'll risk a penalty and getting a red card because this is a WINNING GOAL, we are going to lose".

For the last time Ghana was robbed, shame on you Uraguay.

Ghana wasn't robbed. Ghana had a penalty kick and they blew it. Try to understand, is not THAT hard.

He's not a twat. He's a guy who loves his country and feel his country in his blood and his heart and he's a guy who would do anything for his team and for his country. Is not like european teams who have foreign players in their squads and doesn't have this feel for the team and for the country. TRY TO UNDERSTAND...WE LOVE FOOTBALL...WE BREATHE FOOTBALL AND WE GIVE IT ALL IN A MATCH. That's the difference between you and us.

Why are you guess discussing using the hand in football with people from Argentina? 

Don't you know better? :rofl:

 :hihi:




/jarmo

'Cause I think that Suarez, who is from South America, is a fuckface.. fuckface from South America. Get it?


I agree totally. It was a cowardly thing to do.. simply disgusting.

But anyway, tomorrow's the game I've been waiting for the most.. Germany will beat Argentina and go to the semis. I hope Klose breaks the record eventually..

That, Jarmo, if you want, was unfair. And it was unfair because a guy scored a goal with his hand (against the rules) but the goal was given anyway. But GHANA HAD A PENALTY KICK. There was a punishment against Suarez and no punishment against Maradona. However, like I said, is football.

Anyway...I don't know why I'm doing this effort. You don't see football as we do. We give it all in the ground, we have passion for football, you just want marketing.

So for all the ones who think it's ok to stop a goal in extra time by using your hand...

Let's say tomorrow a German player tackles Messi so bad that he's injured until the winter. The German is sent off and then Germany wins by scoring a goal.

Fair?

I guess so!



No. Maybe you want to win at all cost. No matter if it's done with dirty tricks.

While some of us prefer a fair game where you don't have to use your hand.....  :)




/jarmo

Yes, because he was sent off. Would be unfair if the german tackles Messi and the refferee don't show him any card.

It's not about who loves football the most. It's about the fact that a goal is not the same thing as a possible goal (=penalty).

That's not really fair play, which FIFA supports. It's the same as having a serious injury in the other team and not stop it for medical aid. This has nothing to do with loving their country.

And stop with this "it's a men's thing". I'm both man and South American but I don't agree with such a disrespectful behavior in a match. It's a shame the same way it was a shame when Luis Fabiano scored - only this time it's actually worse because it was in a really key moment.

Ok. And I think it would be shitty to take out the best player of the opposing team.





/jarmo

Jarmo...with all respect...do you know something about football?

Did you see HOW MANY TIMES AND HOW HARD Maradona was tackled when he was a player, he complained but never said it was unfair. You can complain about hard tackles but you never can say (well...if you know SOMETHING about football) that a hard tackle is unfair. It's part of the game, when you play football (did you?) there's  the risk you get tackled or something. It's the game.

WE MISSED THE POINT: All I'm trying to do is show you guys that Uruguay won FAIR because they was punished for their behaviour (and Ghana blew it). They took the risk, and things went good for them.

No absolutely nothing.

Please tell me more about this thing called "football".





/jarmo

It's a long story :hihi:

Just wanted to you to know that Uruguay won fair. Unfair would be if the refferee don't give penalty to Ghana because of that hand.

That's it. We missed the point and I think that kaa(whatever) saying "fuckface from south america" wasn't that cool.

Because we define fair differently.





/jarmo

What would be fair FOR YOU in that moment? I think refferee giving penalty was the only fair thing to do

Yes, it was done by the rules.


But if he hadn't used his hand, the ball would've probably gone in.

Is it fair that a sure goal is substituted with another chance to score a goal?




It's like me stealing your wallet and then telling you that if you guess which hand I'm holding it in behind my back, you can have it back.

I'm stealing your wallet, but since I'm giving you a chance of getting it back, I'm being "fair"?






/jarmo

That would be great.

It was unjust, but by the rules.  Sometimes the rules create unjust outcomes.  It sucks for Ghana, but you see many of these moments and Ulises is right...the fact that this was carded and awarded a penalty is better than what happens in some circumstances.  I won't say it's "fair", but it's far closer to fair than if it wasn't called.  There have been plenty of potential winners and momentum changing goals that have been wrongly disallowed, et cetera.  This one seems all important because it occurred at a later stage and in the very closing seconds, but had Gyan hit that PK like he did in the tiebreaker (or had Ghana not had two really bad PKs in the tiebreaker) we wouldn't be talking about this.    

Anyway, looking forward to seeing Uruguay against Holland.  Forlan has been great to watch and, for those hating Suarez at the moment...well, he'll miss the semis and Uruguay will be worse without him.  If they manage to win anyway, then they'll largely redeem themselves.  If they get crushed then we can call it fitting and just.


I've got Brazil-Holland on my DVR, so no one tell me who won!  ::)  

oh stop crying like a baby, this is football. You need to score more goals than your opponent to win, deserving them is not enough. And in the end Uruguay made it in penalties.

I would be worried if I'd see a brazilian, an italian, a german guy using the word ''cheat'' to describe a hand to save your ass in the last minute of quartefinals of a world cup, but its not the case here. Everyone who understands football, every single player in the world would do the same Suarez did. Even if my own country were eliminated due to an episode like this one, I would understand the hand. Its just logical. Its being out, against being ''almost'' out of the world cup. When you commit fouls, justice comes from the referee, not from the scoreboard. The referee dis his job perfectly: red card to suarez, penalty kick. Justice was 100% made. You dont have to DESERVE goals to win: you need to SCORE them.

Fouls are not 'cheats'. Last resource hands are not cheats. A goal in offside is not cheating. These are parts of the game, and the one responsible to make justice out of these situations is the referee.

You cheat when you take steroids to run more than your opponent instead of training fairly. You cheat when you pay a referee to be favoured. You cheat when you make a deal with FIFA or any other big sport organization. Some of you seem like you are watching football for the first time in your lifes ''ahhh, a hand, oh my god, that's cheating'', or you really dont feel/understand what football is about.

Congratulations Uruguay! Love to see you brothers in semifinals.

Like Maradona when he took Ephedrine? Or when he took Cocaine?





/jarmo

Is there anything more the referee can do?

That can happen in the NBA (in actually happens several times per tournament), it happens in rugby, and in all collective sports.

I dont see what's unfair about that. I am argentina, and i watched Maradona being sistematically fouled in 4 consecutive world cups. He was injured, and everybody knows that a 100% healthy Maradona could have won Italy '90 on his own (he almost did, with his ankle with the size of a pumpkin and full of infiltrations. Cameroon players almost send Maradona and Caniggia to surgery, and we never said cameroon ''cheated''. Fouls are a constituent part of the game. That's why referees are there: the make justice. And justice was made in Ghana - Uruguay: a red card and a penalty.

And I really think Suarez gave Ghana a greater chance to win than Ghana created themselves in that play, because he could really have used his head instead of his hand.

This is football. You dont win with merits or with moral. You win by scoaring goals, and that's what uruguay did: scoaring more goals in the penalty shootout than Ghana  :beer:

Yes. Exactly. Taking drugs is cheating.

You dont really want to know what my opinion is. Its perfectly clear you want to mess with me, knowing I'm argentine, and argentine people love Maradona and gets hurt with that kind of arguments. I know what to say if I want to hurt a brazilian, a french, a mexican, but even though i'm a fanatic I really dont want to hurt anyone freely. In the end, this is just a game. So i will just say YES. That's cheating.

But its not only that you dont take any advantage by taking cocaine to play sports. In fact, cocaine worsens any sport player performance A LOT. Maradona was not trying to get any advantage: he was sick, he took those drugs in parties, not like Ben Johnson who took drugs ONCE to improve his performance. Cocaine almost sent Maradona to the graveyard.

ABout ephedrine... mhh, well... ::)

estebanf, you say the aim is to score more goals, right?. So why can't I punch the ball in the net, if I can't reach it with my head, it's about goals right?.  :hihi:

What you fail to see is, it's called football for a reason.
You fail to see my point, it wasn't a foul, or a general handball. It was a handball that was ON THE LINE, costing Ghana the WINNING GOAL to the semis.

So estebanf, I guess you would be ok, if Germany had a corner against Argentina and a german striker, jumped up in the air and punched the ball in the net.  :hihi:

Don't make me laugh, Uraguay did something that was unforgivable, a blatant cheat.

But I agree with Jarmo, I'm not going to argue against an Argentinian about handballs that cost matches.  :P That would be like history all over again.

Any player can try it. Players know that's EXTREMELY risky and that's why that kind of situations dont occur too much.

Nobody say you CANT do that. Do it at your won risk. Chances of having the goal annuled and having a yellow/red card are extremely high.

Well...It seems here's someone who understands football besides me and estebanf.  ::)

Just making sure you feel the same way about cheating when it's your own national hero doing it.  : ok:

Since you're not allowed to have cocaine in your system and they test for it, it must be cheating like you said. No matter how much you try to justify it having the opposite effect....




/jarmo

COOL!!!!! Now we're judging people for being addict to drugs? (a disease, by the way).


We mustn't forget where we are, we are in a Guns N' Roses forum. Sure, GN'R members only drank tea in 1987

lol, it's a pity this thread heads this way all the time, a couple of days ago it was about goal cameras and what not and now about this




it is what it is

Are you serious?

What the fuck does using banned substances in sports, something your fellow countryman labeled as cheating earlier, have to do with GN'R?


NOTHING!

It's just an Argentinian getting upset because I dared to point out that their national hero has been busted for using prohibited substances while still being an active player.

But I get it, you don't need to say anything else. There's cheating and then there's cheating.  ::)


As far as I'm concerned, there's only one. And it doesn't matter what nationality the person cheating has. Finnish or Argentinian. They should still be banned for life.  :P



/jarmo

I agree that the referee gave the red card and the penalty, because that's how far he can go under the rules of the game. But it's something that the Uraguayan team should be ashamed of, and they will no doubt know in their hearts, that they lost the match.

They won't care of course, because they are through, by cheating. (Yes it's cheating)

I'm not arguing about the rules of the game, they were clearly followed by the officials, as far as they could. I'm on about using an act (handball), that's not allowed, to rob the opposing team of a goal that was 0.01 seconds of going over the line and winning them the match.

It's plain wrong, the world knows it, the ref's knew it. Just because the ref handed out the worse punishment he could, does not mean, Uraguay won fairly.

And to say "that's football" is just funny, because well, it was "handball", if you get the pun.  :D

... Oh, god. I do hate to do it, but I've got to side with the anti-. Err, that is...

I truly believe that much anybody playing football today would do exactly the same thing.

Whatever anybody says (and, this right here is a fact) it is not cheating; it is within the rules. You handle the ball, you give away a penalty. This is a situation that will hardly ever come up, which is why you don't see it; the last minute, of extra time? A red card at that point means absolutely dick. In doing it, you accept the consequences, unlike a poor refereeing decision it can be done by ANY player on the pitch at any time; they are fully aware of what will happen.

You will always see (and, if you don't, then you clearly do not watch football), week in week out, a player (the best example is always Makelele for Chelsea), a clever player, make a deliberate foul when they can see that a break isn't exactly panning out in their favour. They know that they will receive a yellow card, and so they take it, in the manner of the rules!, because they know that it is the lesser evil.

I would expect most anybody on the pitch to do exactly the same in the circumstance.

flawless post.

banned for life? I just cant believe what my poor little eyes are reading.

any player, absolutely any football player, no matter what nationality, would do the same suarez did in that situation.

This



And this




said it all.



Seriously, Jarmo. How many football matches do you watch a week? How hard do you cheer for your country during the World Cup? How often do you and your friends go out for a little football? How many discussions about it do you have with your friends, in person? How many times do you go to the stadium in a whole year?

In football, it's not about "these are the rules and it's simple as that". There are a lot of things to take into account. It's one of the most subjective sports, in my opinion.


Sorry if the Ghana player can't kick a fuckin' penalty. Everyone who knows how to properly shoot a penalty, hardly ever misses it. If your logic is: "he can't stop the ball with has hand, therefore, it is cheating". Then, every single match in the world is unfair and full of cheaters, because fouls and offsides are also """""against the rules"""" (which is why the team that commits them is punished).




Actually, it means a lot to Uruguay. They were truly punished. They lost nobody less than one of their best players (I'd say the best one, besides Forl?n) for an extremely important semi-final match against Holland. ;)

But, Jim, you also said it all in your post.



And this:


ends this discusstion for me. ;)

Here we go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwq_y1yQZ_s

Watch that, and tell me that's fair and justified. I'm not saying he never got punished, he got as much as the refs could give. But it's wrong for the game, that this has happened to Ghana.

It was in, Ghana won in my eyes.

And to say this happens all the time is rediculous, we are talking about the World Cup Finals, not a Saturday in the Premier League.  :P

It certainly wasn't within the spirit of the rules, but like some people said, any footballer in that situation would do the same. It's called desperation. When you see the ball flying towards the goal, it's a World Cup quarter final match and your country will get eliminated, I'm sure the only thing that will go through your head at that moment is to get that ball away from the goal at any cost. He did pay the price for it.

Ultimately, the match was about Ghana not exploiting the chances they were given. Fortune always favours the brave.

While it may have seemed dirty, it was a rational decision. 

Choice A: Don't handle the ball, 100% chance it goes in, infinitesimal chance that your side somehow scores in the remaining two or three seconds...likelihood of losing, approximately 100%

Choice B: Handle the ball, knowing there's a high probability you'll get carded and give away a PK.  Assuming this pans out, a 75% chance that the PK is made, resulting in a loss, as well as a 50-ish% chance of losing on the resulting tiebreaker PKs...likelihood of losing, about 87.5%. 

So, Suarez took the chance and Uruguay got lucky.  But in the face of a certain loss, it was the rational (albeit split second) choice.

Man, I can't wait for today's game. Argentina vs. Germany. :drool:
Argentina FTW.

why does Maradona use of drugs has to do with this argument? am not from Argentina but it seems like it was just made to piss of the Argentinian users.

the hand its the same as when a player is against the goalkeeper and then the goalkeeper is fainted and he has no other choice but to tackle the other player, that happens all the time and its the same situation, if you dont make the foul the other team gets the goal.

you can argue that its moraly wrong but its not unjust, Uruguay made a foul and got charged with a penalty, Ghana fucked up the oportunity thats it. 

Uruguay winning its 100% fair.

I Understand why suarez did it and the referee took the right actions. And yes, probably almost every player wouldve done the same. Doesnt take away, ulises and other Uruguay fans, that there is no respect left for suarez or maybe the complete team. He might be a hero to you, he is a loser to the rest of the world. And will be remembered for that.

He gave them a better chance to win by blocking a sure goal with his hands at the last minute? What the fuck are you talking about? :hihi: And of course he would have used his head if that would have been possible. But it wasn't. And it's stupid and useless to try and make his actions more acceptable by saying something like that 'cause he did what he did.


So anyone who disagrees with you and estebanf doesn't understand anything about football? I guess I've wasted all these years 'cause my opinion about this situation differs from you South Americans and you people seem to be the only one who know anything about football :no:

AND THAT'S GREAT!!!! But sadly, we are in Earth not in One.In.A.Million planet. ;)

Who's going to play next week in semifinals? Uruguay against Netherlands. But sure, One.In.A.Million dictates that Ghana won. :rofl:

you guys are ruining the world cup experience for me :crying:








get over it gentlemen

I don't need to go to a stadium to know about the game do I?

I don't need to cheer for my country, who's never been the world cup, do know about the game do I?

I've only been watching the game since before you were born, but I guess you can teach me all about it since you go to the stadium more often than me!

I normally hate the idea of bringing age (or gender) into the discussion because it shouldn't be an issue, but the things I've just read from you and earlier from some others is just disrespectful.

You obviously think the rest of us are clueless morons and you're the authority on football.




Please Mandy, why do they call it football? Can you explain it to me since I have no idea.

Sure you must know all this because somebody probably told you at the stadium!




To establish the fact that some people make a difference between one guy cheating and another guy cheating.



Right now we have a bunch of South Americans supporting Uruguay while they tell others they know nothing about football.

Hilarious.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/03/fifa-may-extend-luis-suarez-ban




Fucking FIFA, they know nothing about football. I guess they need to visit the stadiums more often and play ball with their friends!

 :)




True. But I would still call it what it is.

No matter if it's Uruguay, Brazil or Holland.





/jarmo

What might be regarded in Europe or Africa as cheating is seen as cunning or exploitation of the rules in other parts of the world.

It could be seen as a moral question or an issue of sportsmanship but, despite what Pantsil said, does anybody really think that professional players all over the world would not have done the same thing? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/07/luis_suarez_hero_or_villain.html#228885)

Jarmo...let's just pretend you play football (reading you it's clearly that you don't), your team is in a World Cup, it's the LAST minute, you're persuing to qualify to semifinals, you know your team are going to lose...what you would do in that situation? And no hypocrisy, please.

I said I understand the desperation, I understood why he did it.

It still doesn't mean I can't lose respect for somebody doing that! It doesn't mean I have to think it's fair!

Did you ignore the quote about fair play from FIFA?



And no, all you South Americans, I don't have to play football to understand it.


Your lame attempts at trying to prove that I know nothing about football are amusing.

I never claimed to be an expert, but I don't consider myself clueless like some of you try to make me out to be.

Just because I'm not prepared to hate a person because he's not supporting the same team as I support doesn't make me clueless....



Since all of you know so much about football, are you all expert commentators on TV or coaching the national teams?




/jarmo

christian vieri didn't do it in euro 2004 against sweden :hihi:




how tiresome is this shit, really!

it's argentina - germany in less than 17 minutes ffs!

Good article.  I think this line says it all:

"'I thought we were out,' said Forlan of the moment when Gyan prepared to take his penalty."  Can anyone honestly say they really expected Ghana to lose at that point?  I certainly didn't.  They had gone from a 100% chance to win to an overwhelming chance to win and failed to do so.

And, as often as players flop in the box or within striking distance, the sole purpose of which is to get a penalty kick or a free kick which will offer a decent chance to score, it's hard to argue (for me at least...) that one play that is called absolutely correctly is as bad as it's being made out.  There are so many efforts to game the rules, because so many are open to interpretation.  

You know nothing about football, Swede!  :P


I should lock this thread and only allow the South Americans to post....

We can also forget the Formula 1 thread since none of us actually drive F1 cars...

 :hihi:



/jarmo

Shit...I've forgotten to warm up my embouchure.  Now my vuvuzela playing will be off key.  Sounds like an ox, and I was shooting for flock of angry hummingbirds.

I guess that's what going on in this threat here ;) Doesn't take away that I have no respect at all for those parts of the world, concerning this matter.

Well...my team against Germany.

It would be hard but we are Argentina.


See ya in two hours...

uraguay won fairly. there was no cheating. the ball actually would have hit his face if he didn't use his hands. but regardless, you stop that ball ANY WAY possible at that moment. you are fighting for your team's life in the tournament.

Ghana was correctly awarded a PK, which they should have buried and ended right then and there. they didn't. so they lost in a truly gut-wrenching way. but they did not lose unfairly. and i don't think anyone on Ghana would suggest that they did.

i think a good comparison is hockey when a guy has the puck with an open net. defensive players will crosscheck or even tackle the guy to prevent him from scoring. because taking 2 minutes in the box is better than giving up the guaranteed goal.

and every coach in the world will tell you to use your hands if faced in that same situation as Uraguay. because a PK is better than a guaranteed goal against. at least you have a chance with a PK. and it worked out for them.

i cannot believe this is even being discussed.

1-0 for Germany after the first 45min :beer: Germany is a bit lazy at some points, but when they start playing it's just so organized and beautiful. Gotta love it.

Not saying it because I go to the stadium. Not saying it because you live in Sweden and I live in Brazil (for that, we have Jon, who also lives in Sweden and seems to understand more than many South Americans or Europeans with a big football tradition).
Those were arguments to try to show you that, for many of us posting in this thread, football isn't just a sport. It's the sport. And, in my case, the only one that matters. It's not something I'll watch every four years, it's something that's present in my everyday life, in the discussions I have with my friends and all that kind of thing.

I'm saying all of this because, almost everyone who sees the sport like that, doesn't like seeing it being simplified to: these are the rules, deal with it, there's only right or wrong. While I understand this may apply to most sports, it's not like that when it comes to football. As I said previously, there are lots of things to take into account here, which is why I think Su?rez wasn't wrong at all.



Anyway, I guess now this discussion is really done for me. Not replying to anything in this sense anymore, I've shown my point, I guess.


Back to watching the Germany x Argentina game now.  :beer:

0-3 ;D Germany deserves it all!

Edit. 0-4 : ok:

Wow...amazing Germany.


I guess kaasupoltin is happy because southamerican fuckfaces was eliminated.


Lession of basic football to Jarmo: "In football wins the team who score more. Not with merits".

At least Brazil is out  ;D*


*So sad :hihi:

Wow, Argentina got owned by Germany.

England still managed to get 2 goals against Germany (4-2, inc goal over line), so I guess we aren't as bad as I thought. It's just that Germany are on fire at the moment.

I'm happy 'cause I'm a big fan of the German football :)

Where are you from kaa?

I guess Lineker was right: "Soccer is a game for 22 people that run around, play the ball, and one referee who makes a slew of mistakes, and in the end Germany always wins."

It's not a matter of if it's by the rules or not because everything was done by the rule book. You break the rules, you get penalized. That's how it works.

But the thing some of us don't like is when fouls basically decide a game.... They key is the term fair play.





I don't care if you discuss it with your pets.

The fact that you and others try to discredit my opinion is amusing.

Some of you are obviously Uruguay supporters because they're your neighboring country. I get that too.


Just because I prefer a fair game where one doesn't need to break the rules to win the game....

Like when Germany just crushed Argentina by 4-0!





I think you just witnessed a lesson on TV.




/jarmo

Humiliated, destroyed, shamed and sent home. What a disappointment for Argentina. Germany have torn them a new one. The final goal was just excellent. Looks like South Americans were overrated. Uruguay dubiously scrape through, Brazil and Argentina knocked out and Paraguay are sure to have an very difficult match against Spain.

Germany Vs. Holland final?

4X0 no excuses...
Bye Argentina...  :rofl:

Go Paraguai!

Yes, I witnessed the lession, Jarmo. I'm a man, I won't cry saying that Germany victory was unfair because Argentina deserved to score most of the first and second time. That's why I'm telling you: goals, not merits.

I could try to explain you the definition of "counter-attack" but...neh...is useless.
And I could ask you if you think Germany played to score four goals but...neh...again...useless.

Finland.


That's what I said before the tournament started.. I can see it happening, Germany has been amazing and Holland has every chance in winning Uruguay. Would be a great ending for the tournament in my opinion :)

The Englishman who coaches the Finnish national team (yes South Americans, Finland has a football team too even though we don't know anything about the game) is on Swedish TV...

The host congratulates him because Finland played two draws against that German team.... Hahaha.  :rofl:




And they didn't win by using a hand or score one offside goal that was wrongfully allowed!

Nice!




Why do you keep assuming I understand nothing?

Is it because I'm not South American and I don't play football with you and your pals while vising stadiums every week with my family so we can talk about football?





/jarmo

Yeah, but we weren't actually a favorite. Everyone expected what happened yesterday. What about your team, who just had a 0 x 4?

BTW, just a reminder for Ignacio:

Really? :hihi:

Ok kaa(...), win ONE World Cup and then mock.

However, I understand why you have to support Germany. Your team in football is null.

I won supporting MY country and today, I lose supporting MY country.

Hope Germany be the champion. They deserve it most than anyone

Muller will miss the semi final...

Maybe we, whose teams are not in the World Cup, can overlook the nationalistic bullshit and actually spot the quality in the teams and acknowledge it without being biased.

Nah, we know nothing about football.




/jarmo

So NOW we're agree. Finally.  :beer:

Impressive display of power by the germans. Schweinsteiger, Podolski, Muller and Klose are just on fire.

Argentina could have changed the way of the match in those last 15 minutes of the game, and until the second goal came. Then it was over.

Germany is the immense favourite to win this world cup. Playing like today, they got no opponents.

You guys will never imagine how I love Diego Maradona. All I hope is he continues as our coach.

You're sad....

But I guess it's natural especially today...




I think everybody in Brazil hopes so too.

Seems like he didn't do a good job....

Dunga left after getting a similar result. Well, they weren't outscored four to nothing.



/jarmo

The second and third goals were a joke. Schweinsteiger just walked through the defence ... and Argentina never even threatened the German goal.

True.

Germany let them shoot from a distance most of the time.

Seems like they had everything under control.

They took out Messi and when he's not "in" the game, well what else were Argentina do? He's the man. The best (?) player in the world.



Oh shit. Why did I reply to your post. You can't possibly know anything about football... Just like me.




/jarmo

But YOU (and anyone else who's not argentinean...well...maybe the italians from Napoli) cannot understand WHAT is Maradona to us. Nah...once again...WHY I'M DOING EFFORTS HERE? You have Litmanen as "football hero" :hihi: .


In case you don't know Litmanen (probable) take a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jari_Litmanen

Who's Maradona?

Could somebody from England tell me?



It's unbelievable how a non-South American team beat Argentina, the people who know everything about football, by four to nothing! It wasn't by a goal, four fucking goals!

I don't understand how that is possible.

Did they use the hand of God?  ???





/jarmo

Nice question (not).

I guess I could ask you who is Hyypi? but neh...it could be embarassing for you.

A FINNISH mocking me in football. Oh boy...

You're embarrassing yourself.  ;D

Like there's something shameful in being the all time European top scorer of AFC Ajax (Litmanen), UEFA Champions League top scorer 1995-96 (Litmanen), playing ten seasons for Liverpool (Hyypi?) and winning the Champions League with said club (Hyypi?).


Argentina loses and you have to point out how Finland sucks in football? Hahahaha.

Is that your only comfort?

I agree, they do! But not as much they did 20-30 years ago. They're getting better.

But they didn't lose to Germany four to nothing in the World Cup qualification (3-3 and 1-1)....  :)


"My country is better than your country in football!"  :rofl:


Yeah, but you're still sad.




/jarmo

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4651/maradona0et3eq.jpg)

:hihi:

Maradona was chosen the greatest football player in history by football fans in a survey made by FIFA. He even won in brazilian land.

He was 2 times world champion (1979 in sub-20 and 1986) and one time runner up in 1990. He scoared 8 goals in world cups, and if im not wrong he's the second midfielder leading scoarer (Baggio has 9).

I really suggest argentine people here to be stood up in this moment, accepting we were defeated by a much better team, and stop arguing with people who will stop watching/feeling football in july 12th after the final. We were not made to discuss with casual football fans who will always cheer up for the winner, simply because they got no genuine/own team to cheer.

The world cup is over for us. At least I had one.

I'm not pointing that Finland sucks in football (we all know that)

I'm pointing that YOU, Jarmo, SUCKS at football so you don't have word about football.

You discussing with me about football is like me discussing with you about HTML programming...

Get over yourself.




I have supported Holland and Brazil for as long as I remember. Brazil didn't win in 1986 and Holland wasn't even there.

Holland has one title in all this time.




My all time favorite player had to quit too early because of an injury.

So nice try. :)




You need to get over yourselves.

Just because somebody doesn't have a national team to support, doesn't mean he/she doesn't know about football.

Have you guys heard of television? We can actually watch football from all the best leagues in the world on that thing! By the way, the best leagues are not in Argentina....





/jarmo

this thread really do suck


glad germany won, i was a bit (in lack of a better word..) nervous for the first 15 minutes or so of the second half (remembering what had happened yesterday for brazil) but after the goal it was all germany again. now i hope klose breaks ronaldo's record

Maradona until death.

Sadly, it took some time for me to understand it, but today I realized that Maradona has to be the coach until the day of his death

The german team is fucking amazing. I didn't expect this result, but I don't really care. Argentina is still one of the best teams in the whole fucking world. I hope the german goalkeeper Hans-J?rg Butt plays at least one match and someone in the crowd take a flag with the words "The phone is ringing and I cannot linger, so look out Butt, here comes my finger".

I understand that he's a God in Argentina. But can he do no wrong?

Is it ok to point out the mistakes he made? Will anybody do it in Argentina?


Like, I've heard people say he didn't pick the right guys for the team. I just have to trust these people even though I don't know if they actually play football.... I didn't check their credentials!

So maybe they don't know anything either!




I think the problem you South Americans have is that you can't understand how somebody dares to have a different point of view. Especially somebody who doesn't have a team in the World Cup.


Personally, I don't believe in the bullshit that you have to be Brazilian to understand football. Or Argentinian.

Or that every Italian knows more about football than everybody in Sweden.

Argentina doesn't have anybody in Formula 1 today. Does it mean everybody there is clueless about it? Of course not. I bet I can find Argentinian F1 fans who know more about it than most Finnish F1 fans!



/jarmo

Bloody hell. Is that pic for real? :o

Well, after this match, Maradona will think twice next time before calling Muller a ball boy. :)

Maradona is more than a coach, Jarmo. Try to understand.

Using GN'R analogies: is our Axl.




Oh boy, now I started to talk nonsense with that analogy. I have to leave the PC for a while...

Oooooh, that's just mean, guys!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Actually, Dunga left because he only had a 4 year contract with CBF. There's absolutely no way he would continue as the coach, not even if we won the Cup.



But almost every player in the Argentinian team plays in those best leagues. ;)

I think the matter isn't me not understanding. It's you not being able to understand:



Maybe if you took a breath, read what I say and dropped your "I know more than you and your Finnish team sucks" attitude, you'd understand the words I post?




Really?

 :o


By the way. Who invented the game? Surely those people must be the best and know the most!



Yes, I'm joking. Just using your logic....


/jarmo

Yes...but that's why some people of Argentina are unable to mark him mistakes and stuff. Because Maradona is more than a coacho-who-can-make-mistakes-sometime.

If you understand that for us is like God then don't try to say that he isn't (at least to us, the argentinean)

As for the game.. WHAT A GAME!

What scares me the most is that, in 2014, the Germany team will be this one again, with little changes. They're all really young players. And there's no way Germany can win a World Cup in Brazil!!!! It's ok for Uruguay, but not for them. :hihi:


I'm almost 100% positive that Klose will manage to beat Ronaldo's record.



By the way, Rapidshare is giving out free premium accounts to celebrate Germany's victory! Quick, go grab yours! :D

Maradona did a good job this world cup. He put the best players of our nation, he set a very offensive team, he made his team play with the ball on the grass, and he was one of the few coaches who had the balls of putting three strikers and 2 offensive midfielders. Argentina has a problem in the defense, and that's a very old problem. SOme of you need to remember that Maradona started coaching Argentina in the last quarter of the qualifyings, and he put all his efforts in rebuilding the defense, with a completely different scheme (4 stoppers).

There's nothing rare or strange here. Maradona did his job well, but Argentina lost anyway because Germany was a better team. That's it. Dunga did his job also (even though he has been criticized for not bringing Roni Gaucho and Adriano, among others) and Brazil is flying home. I love the way brazil plays with Dunga, I love the way they use the sides with Maicon, for example, and they were eliminated.

Germany has *that* thing needed to win world cups: they play good in crucial moments. That has nothing to do with individual coaches, and that's something you canr practice at trainings. That is something you got in your blood, something impossible to explain to casual fans who choose who to cheer for after the game is over and the result is set on stone.

I really congratulate german people here. Your national team was something incredible. Germany destroyed England without offering too much, and now destroyed Argentina offering it all. You guys will have no problems against Spain/Paraguay.

This is football ladies and gentlemen, where impossible can happen. Messi and Kaka, probably the two best players in the world, ended the WC without scoaring. Ronaldo did nothing. The champion was eliminated in first round, same for the last runner up. Time to move on. Football continues in real football fans lives, and if there is something beatiful about football is you always have revenge. Next world cup will be in brazil, and I'll be there to cheer my own nation  :beer:

imagine this, germany wins this years WC and 2014 in brazil and ties it with 5 golds in brazil, holy shit :hihi:

rapidshare account(s) created, thanks : ok:

Jesus. You really don't understand.

But is it ok to have an opinion which criticizes him?

What if you have a favorite player who you think should've made the squad and didn't? Are you allowed to say so?

Or do you just agree with God?


I'm only asking because I think it's quite interesting how there's like a cult thing going on there.

We obviously don't have that here. Here the media criticizes the coaches all the time.

Even in Brazil, Dunga got a lot of shit from the media.....


Obviously there's some "Gods" that, when they speak, people listen. Like Cruyff in Holland.



Some people missed Zanetti in the squad....

I mean, journalists that are not Argentinian.



/jarmo

You think I haven't imagined it yet? :hihi: Just the thought of it scares me as hell! lol!

All of you people who were ripping England a new arse because we got owned by Germany, want to look closer to home. Argentina looked desperate and lost today, no control whatsoever.

England scored 2 goals against Germany, and who knows what it would have been if our second goal was "recognised".

I have no sympathy for Maradona, as I'm English, forgive me. :hihi:

But well done to Germany, you are unbeatable at the moment. This is how it felt for us last Sunday, but for all of those who were gloating, at least we scored 2 goals against Germany unlike Argentina.  :D

At least we won 2 world cup unlike England (the creator of this game) who won one and because it was at the "queen's land"  :nervous: :hihi: