Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Training camp is in session.

Preseason games right around the corner.

Isn't it good to be alive?

Not with Ron Artest going crazy and Lamar Odom marrying fatass.

Totally agree.  Phil has no experience dealing with insane players.  This Laker run is over.

N-E-T-S- NETS NETS NETS!!!

My Mavs are gonna be the Darkhorse

the last time Garry said lakers weren't going to win the Championship what happened? the lakers won, thats what happened  :smoking:

Raps year guys and gals..sorry

Every year.

 :rofl:


S!-U!-C!-K! SUCK! SUCK! SUCK! 

(Come on man, at least do it right.)


Artest is on a completely different level of insane.  The worst thing with Rodman was the crossdressing and kicking photographers in the crotch.

Lamar is a mental midget.  Dealing with the Slutdashian family, shooting a reality show, and constant attention from the tabloids will render him useless.

Fuck this year.

Wilt Chamberlain vs. Michael Jordan, An Objective Look

There seems to be little that stirs up more passion amongst NBA fans than the discussion about who the greatest player of all time is. Wilt Chamberlain versus Michael Jordan, with the occasional well deserved plug for some of the other all-time greats.

With all the media hype of Jordan?s Hall of Fame induction and calls by some that Jordan should have gone into the Hall by himself, perhaps some objective reflection is in order.

In all fairness, comparing players from different teams in the same era is challenging enough that comparing players who never even faced each other and played different positions must be near impossible.

Arguments often start with championships won, personal awards received, and stories about how good a player was, but none of these are truly objective.

Championships are won by teams. No player of any era has ever been good enough to will a bad team to a championship by themselves and it would be completely unreasonable to expect this.

On a solely championship criteria, neither Jordan nor Chamberlain should even be in the conversation as Bill Russell has them out-classed by near double and more.

Awards, especially all-star selections, are based as much on popularity and marketing as actual achievement. Both Chamberlain and Jordan were deserving of many more awards than they were actually given. The selection of league MVP is extremely subjective.

And stories of greatness are more related to the age of the player and the fan, the media accessibility of the league, and the time in which a player enjoyed their career.

The NBA has gone from a league that was primarily a live spectator sport to a league that is primarily a live TV event. Players like Chamberlain and Russell never enjoyed the media coverage of today?s or even Jordan?s era.

Wilt Chamberlain played in an era when many fans never even had the opportunity to see him play, even on TV. Jordan?s era didn?t have the unending in-depth TV and internet coverage provided by today?s media either (but it was still very good coverage).

NBA never recorded many of today?s important official statistics during Chamberlain?s era such as blocks and steals. Many rules changed after Chamberlain entered the league and they continue to change up to our present era.

Unfortunately even statistics covering the earlier parts of Jordan?s amazing career are not easily found.

So, doing the best one can with the hard data that is available and trying hard not to be swayed by team awards, individual awards, the unavailability of key statistics, media generated fame and ?stories? of greatness, here are some objective comparisons between two of the NBA?s greatest players.

During their rookie seasons, Wilt Chamberlain (?WC?) and Michael Jordan (?MJ?) posted the following hard statistics:

1.Points:  WC = 2,707;  MJ = 2,313
2.Assists:  WC = 168;  MJ = 481
3.Rebounds:  WC = 1,941;  MJ = 534
4.FG%:  WC = 46.1%;  MJ = 51.5%
5.Minutes Played: WC = 3,338;  MJ = 3,144

Their rookie playoff statistics were:

1.Games Played:  WC = 9;  MJ = 4
2.Minutes Played:  WC = 415;  MJ = 171
3.Points:  WC = 299;  MJ = 117
4.Assists:  WC = 19;  MJ = 34
5.Rebounds:  WC = 232;  MJ = 23
6.FG%:  WC = 49.6%;  MJ = 43.6%

Their personal best game hi-lights included:

1.Points: WC = 100; MJ = 69
2.Rebounds: WC = 55; MJ = 18

Their personal bests for a season included:

1.Minutes Played:  WC = 3,882;  MJ = 3,311
2.Points:  WC = 4,029*; MJ = 3,041
3.Assists:  WC = 702;  MJ = 650
4.Rebounds:  WC = 2,149*;  MJ = 652
5.FG%:  WC = 72.7%;  MJ = 53.9%
* Chamberlain scored 3,000+ points in a season 3 times and 2,000+ rebounds in a season twice.

Their personal bests in a playoff season were:

1.Games Played:  WC = 18;  MJ = 22
2.Minutes Played:  WC = 851;  MJ = 920
3.Points:  WC = 420;  MJ = 759
4.Assists:  WC = 135;  MJ = 142
5.Rebounds:  WC = 444;  MJ = 150
6.FG%:  WC = 57.9%;  MJ = 53.1%

For their illustrious careers, their regular season statistics were:

1.Games Played:  WC = 1,045;  MJ = 1,072
2.Minutes Played:  WC = 47,859;  MJ = 41,010
3.Points:  WC = 31,419;  MJ = 32,292
4.Assists:  WC = 4,643;  MJ = 5,633
5.Rebounds:  WC = 23,924;  MJ = 6,672
6.FG%:  WC = 54%;  MJ = 49.7%

In their illustrious playoff careers, their statistics were:

1.Games Played:  WC = 160;  MJ = 179
2.Minutes Played:  WC = 7,559;  MJ = 7,474
3.Points:  WC = 3,607;  MJ = 5,987
4.Assists:  WC = 673;  MJ = 1,022
5.Rebounds:  WC = 3,913;  MJ = 1,152
6.FG%:  WC = 52.2%;  MJ = 48.7%

Each player dominated during their own era. One can use selective data to make solid objective arguments as to why one is better than the other. But taking into account one player was a center and one player was a wing, it gets much harder to see how either was really significantly ?better?.

The NBA has declared that ?By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time? But in fairness to all the great players who came before him, isn?t declaring Michael Jordan the greatest basketball player of his time enough.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/259576-wilt-chamberlain-v-michael-jordan-an-objective-look/page/2 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/259576-wilt-chamberlain-v-michael-jordan-an-objective-look/page/2)

I hate the Bill Russell Shit

fucking guy was great but god damn, he had like 3 or 4 other HOF on his team and there were fewer teams and all sorts of other shit that helped them win that many titles.

Scottie Pippen?  By the way, he's not in the hall yet.

Refresh my memory, how many of Jordan's former teammates are in the hall of fame?

(Don't say Phil Jackson!)

today it's been 10 years since wilt chamberlain died, if he was in his prime today, how good do you think he woulda been?

Probably 7 or 8 women a day or maybe more with Viagra.

 :rofl:


Wilt and Magic Johnson's real numbers are quite impressive. Combined, the number of women they have slept with is probably higher than the population of any small town in the US.

i don't believe in 20000 women for a second

More like 30 grand.

50

anyone doing a fantasy league here?

I am

want an invite?

I got 8 spots open

ID 231584
PW: donnie


on yahoo

cool, ill join. I've never done head to head before

Its awesome. some people who normally play have flaked out on me this year. but its a good competitive league.

I won someone's fantasy baseball league from this forum... i can' t remember whose it was.

is it like point base system only head to head?

yeah
FG, pts, 3pt, rebs, blocks,  etc etc

if u have a better FG% u lead your opponent 1-0 etc

so at the end of the week, if u are up 7-5, your record will be 7-5.

alright cool, ill figure it out.

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS002.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS011.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS017.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS037.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS132.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS115.jpg)


And lastly, the Lakers kicking ass like always.

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GarryCarlson/ForumNLCS111.jpg)

The day has come ladies and gentleman!

Sleep deprivation 2009-'10 begins (for us European fans)!

Tip off night. Cavs Vs Celts and Lakers Vs Clippers. Not bad to get started.

I really, really want to go to the ring ceremony tonight.

I have a hundo I can spend on a ticket.  I'll be scouring Craigslist for the next 4 hours.

Was Allen Iverson right all along?

By Patrick Hayes
October 27, 2009, 7:05PM

So this is interesting. Rip Hamilton had this to say about everyone's favorite scapegoat Allen Iverson in the Memphis Commercial Appeal:

"M.C. lied to us a million times," Hamilton said of Curry. "He sat me and A.I. down one time and was like, 'I'm going to lean on both of you the whole year, just don't go to the media. Say you'll do whatever for the team and blah blah blah.' This was a week before he brought me off the bench. He lied. So I feel for what Allen said."

He added: "I think the person that we had didn't know how to take advantage of (our roster). Instead of taking advantage of it, he killed it."

That is scathing. Rip has been silent for a long time on all things Curry, and he's a key player in the drama of last season. There were rumors out there that Curry's refusal to reconcile with Rip led to his sudden firing, not that Curry's inability to coach also didn't weigh heavily in that decision as well.

But I think an assumption made by many fans is that while the team was no fan of Curry, they were also not happy about having Iverson around, and to me, that just doesn't jibe with AI's rep around the league.

Iverson is admired by his peers. He's controversial to some fans and media, but there's never been a report of a teammate negatively talking about AI as a player or person. People forget that Iverson, popularity-wise, bridged the NBA from the Jordan era to the Kobe-LeBron era. And I know the second I type that that people are going to comment and tell me why I'm an idiot and complain about him playing selfish basketball and having a bad attitude and being a 'thug', whatever that means.

The NBA, as FreeDarko famously says, is a league of stars. Iverson's style has been hugely influential on the league, and there's a generation of players who grew up respecting him and admiring him. The more people who don't understand the concept of how star power drives the league among its most devoted fans hate and criticize, the more it's endeared Iverson to his fanbase.

More than just one Piston didn't play their hardest last season. More than one player was not satisfied with his role. More than one player handled it poorly. Only one player -- Iverson -- had the star power to always have a reporter there, on the road or at home, notebook in hand, ready to write about anything that came out of his mouth.

It's all irrelevant at this point. Both Iverson and the Pistons moved on. Curry, despite dressing the part, was rightfully fired. But it's good to (finally) hear Hamilton's perspective on what happened, since Iverson largely took the fall when multiple parties should have shared in what went wrong last season.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/10/was_allen_iverson_right_all_al.html (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/10/was_allen_iverson_right_all_al.html)

Never understood what Stuckey did to deserve to start over Rip and AI

Nice win for the Celtics to open up the season @Cleveland.  Cavs were without Delonte West so they weren't exactly 100%.  Then again, the C's were without Glen Davis, who injured himself in a fight (off the court) and is gonna miss 6 weeks.  Dumbass! 

Cavs are gonna take some time to get used to playing with Shaq.  I just don't think he's gonna make them any better.  Shaq is obviously far removed from his prime, but he's not even the same player he was in Miami.  He'll have his big games.  He'll be a defensive and rebounding presence.  He'll have flashes on offense.  I just don't see him making much of a difference.  It's only one game though, we'll see how they progress.

Celtics looked solid.  They shot the ball real well from 3.  Can't expect that every night, but it was a key to victory tonight.  Defense was real good.  That's what they've lived off the last 2 years (with Garnett on the floor).  Good start.

The Raps owned LeBaron last night :smoking:

Watch out for Andrea Bargnani at this year's all-star game!

Sad part is, they were shopping Bargnani and nobody wanted him

dummies

im glad i picked up Bargnani in one of my leagues...


also i couldnt believe James would rather go for a circus shot in the 4th qrt during boston instead of trying to get an and 1. when he was on that fast break and bumped into pierce or rondo, dont remember who it was all he had to do was do a hop step and turn his body and try to bank in the shot but what does he do. he decided to spin and just the throw the ball in the air.  Unfucking believable, he wasnt even close to the ring to do try and make a circus shot.

Oh yeah, I grabbed him Very Very Late in a draft and have reaped the rewards


Dallas Slaughtered overrated LA tonight



ok Gasol didnt play but it still felt great

There's a video in nba.com on Ron Artest new life in LA. Sure he's not the most articulate basketball player, but the guy seems to be happy.

He says he enjoys playing alongside the best player in the history of the game...  ::)  I didn't know Michael Jordan was back playing with the lakers.

So what are your first thoughts so far?

Lakers seem to be doing well without Pau. Kobe has to score 40 points + in order for the lakers to win though.

The Heat finally got a good solid start.

The Cavs have already lost more games at home this season than last (there are talks already about Lebron joining the Lakers next season).

The Celtics with Garnett are a much more dangerous team than without him and the Nuggets seem to be strong.

I haven't really followed the NBA too closely so far this season.  It's kind of tough to get into it knowing how long the season is.  I do know that the Celtics have been absolutely blowing teams out, with a few exceptions.  Their defense is impregnable (like Mike Tyson would say).  Doc Rivers is pulling out all the stops for this very veteran team.  No game day shootarounds, trying to get the guys as much rest as possible.  And with all the blowouts they've been able to rest the starters a lot and play the 2nd unit, giving them some much needed work.  Paul Pierce looks great, and in the best shape he's been in in years.  Garnett isn't back to his old form yet, but he's getting there.  Rasheed Wallace is throwing up 3's exclusively these days, but he's making them so nobody's complaining YET! 

Any gamblers out there?  Take the Celtics at home on Friday nights.  I swear they usually cover, even when they had bad teams.  For some reason they ramp it up at home on Friday nights.  Tonight the Suns are in town.  Not sure what the line is, but I sense a blowout.  (Of course now that I've said this, they'll probably lose outright)

How could the Lakers possibly have both Kobe and Lebron on the same team?  I don't see how that could be humanly possible.

Just sick at Dallas' loss the other night

up 3 under a minute to go and Dallas miss 4 FUCKING FT's

just needed one to cinch the game and they miss 4

Wow James is just on fire. If he keep going like this he is going to pass Kobe for the most points scored at NY.

guess not

The Celtics will win the East.

there gonna win more than that, u punk ass little white boy!!!!!! this is my cameo!!!!

You're probably right, the Lakers haven't impressed me yet.  Whether that has anything to do with Pau being absent or not, I'm just not feeling it yet.

your never feeling it. Lakers will win it all like i told you last season.

GO LAKERS!!! Bynum could be an all-star this season!!

Sick of reading this A.I. shit... get him out of the league.  Go star in a reality show with Marbury.

I want Utah to pick him up...they would be deadly with him in that line-up.  Sloan would straighten his ass out at least long enough to make one good run at a title.

Josh Howard back in the lineup and we would looked amazing against Toronto last night.

if A.I dont want to play ball then ill be happy to take his position and come off the bench.

Iverson is God.

At losing.

and whining

That's the closest he'll ever get to winning.

He took a team to the finals on his shoulders alone, what have you won lately? A free pack of twizzlers?

and he got smoked in the finals by the Lakers..didnt the Lakers win all 3 games in Philly??  YES they did then some douche on the Sixers who I cant remember says if they had home court advantage they would have beaten the Lakers...after losing all 3 home games.  Professional athletes, not to be confused with rocket scientists.

I wish, Twizzlers are awesome.  They're red, chewy, long...they're unbelievable!

I like the wildberry ones myself.

Pau Gasol out until Christmas.

He'll be back just in time for Andrew Bynum's annual injury.

Iverson + LeBron + Shaq = NBA Championship?

Might Allen Iverson ultimately be the answer to the riddle of what ails Shaq and LeBron on the banks of Lake Erie?

With the Cavs off to a disappointing 4-3 start, and A.I.'s don't call it a comeback tour off to less than rousing reviews down in Memphis, the likelihood and necessity for such a collaboration seems to grow more by leaps and bounds each day.

Consider that over the season's first month, the Cavs are averaging just 94 points per game, a total back in the day that A.I. seemed to amass all by his lonesome. Granted, Iverson isn't the same baller he was when he, more or less, singlehandedly strong-armed Philly into the 2001 NBA Finals. But understand that the Cavs aren't even the same squad they were just six months ago.

Sense the symmetry here? The mutual make-me-whole-again, mano-a-mano admiration? If Cleveland is to ever to appease The King enough to keep him local, this is the moment to seize. And if The Answer ever wants to lay claim to perhaps his final measure of NBA royalty, this too may be his last best chance.

It makes for a win-win situation. --Glenn Minnis

http://www.vibe.com/mt/2009/11/game-recognizes-game-iverson-lebron-shaq-nba-championship/ (http://www.vibe.com/mt/2009/11/game-recognizes-game-iverson-lebron-shaq-nba-championship/)

From Vibe.com?

The Cavs are fine... they are ACTUALLY off to a 6-3 start and currently on a 3-game win streak.  Sure, they aren't tearing up the league like the Lakers or Suns, but does it really matter until the playoffs?  They beat the team that stopped them last year and Shaq was a big part of that.

Iverson is never a win-win situation IMO.

I'd say the scenario has a .2% chance of happening, but if D-Wade thought AI would be a good addition to the Heat for making a bid at the championship, it's possible LeBron would feel similar.

Thanks God!

Report: Iverson announces retirement from the NBA

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- -- Allen Iverson is set to retire from the NBA, according to an online report.

Commentator Stephen A. Smith published a statement on his Web site Wednesday attributed to Iverson. It says Iverson plans to retire but also that "I feel strongly that I can still compete at the highest level."

The statement also says Iverson has tremendous love for the game and the desire to play.

The 10-time All-Star played three games this season with Memphis before taking a leave of absence to attend to personal matters. He was waived after the two sides agreed to part ways.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/25/iverson.report.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

A sad day for the NBA. A.I. has given us alot of memories over the years.

Selfish players never leave on their own terms

left Philly, they got better
left Denver, they damn near went to the finals last year


Iverson is a great "Fantasy" player

problem with Iverson is, he shoots too much, can't play defense and doesn't make anyone on the floor better. I personally think he,Vince Carter and T Mac are three of the most overhyped, overrated players in NBA history.

Iverson would score 28 a night but give up 25 on defense.

Career Assists Per Game

Iverson: 6.2
Kobe Bryant: 4.7

Amazing tribute video I found on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tbJyPxRaos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tbJyPxRaos)

Watching that, I think Axl4Prez said it best awhile ago: "I've never seen quicker."

Hmm is that the only department Iverson beats Kobe in?

AI hasn't really retired.  He'll be back once a team he's interested in proves they want him and can use him in the way he sees fit.  It'll happen, later in the season.

Nope, steals and blocks among other things such as this also come to mind: a playoff scoring average of 29.7 points that ranks second only to Michael Jordan.

But the fact that you've referred to Iverson as a ball-hog numerous times and yet he has almost 2 more assists per game and has played in less games than your beloved Kobe sure is funny though.


This is what my Pops is saying.

Danny Ainge said just this week that the Celtics would definately keep A.I. in mind should a position open up that would be suited to him, although I'm really hoping for Utah like Bodhi suggested a week or so ago.

But... if I played one NBA game and got 7 assists, I would have a better APG than both of them in less games.   ;D

Another example of his piss-poor character.

He'd rather take his ball and go home than come off the bench.  If he's coming off the bench, he can't take his usual 80 shots per night.   :confused:

When you've been a starter your entire career, it's understandable that being asked to come off the bench could be construed as a slap in the face.

But if he's not good enough...I mean, the man never does what is best for the team.

It's ME first, then the team with AI.

Yeah that's part of the problem.  He really could help a contender out a lot, IF he accepted a role as a backup PG and instant offense off the bench.  And he'd probably still play 20+ minutes a night, but he refuses to accept that role.  At least to this point.  I wouldn't mind the C's taking a shot at him to back up Rondo, but he's not interested in such a role.  So I don't see it working out with a playoff team unless he changes his mind OR there's an injury that creates a need for him.

Jazz coach compares Iverson to Stockton

SALT LAKE CITY -- Say what?

Just days removed from his reluctant retirement, NBA star Allen Iverson not only received an endorsement from Jazz coach Jerry Sloan, the old school coach compared A.I. to ex-Jazzman John Stockton.

"I think he's a tough guy," Sloan said. "There aren't very many guys his size that can get on top of the basket, shoot layups, take a shot. Even when somebody got into him, he'd get up and go."

Sloan compared Iverson and Stockton in terms of their ability to get to the basket for layups.

"He and John (Stockton), if you look back at guys I've watched a great deal, were great layup shooters," he said. "John was a great layup shooter and so was (Iverson). And that's tough because they're not going in there against someone 5-foot-1, they're going in against some bigger guys. A lot of guys can take (shots around the basket) but to make them is the big thing."

Iverson announced his retirement last week, however, a report Saturday said the Philadelphia 76ers are considering bringing back their former superstar.

http://www.standard.net/topics/sports/2009/11/28/jazz-coach-compares-iverson-stockton (http://www.standard.net/topics/sports/2009/11/28/jazz-coach-compares-iverson-stockton)

And neither player won a championship!

Comparison: Valid

Some retirement...



76ers coach Eddie Jordan and general manager Ed Stefanski had a two-hour meeting in Dallas on Monday with free-agent guard Allen Iverson before the team's game against the Dallas Mavericks.

The team confirmed the face-to-face meeting with Iverson, agent Leon Rose and Iverson's longtime business manager Gary Moore.

No firm decision on signing Iverson was expected before the game Monday night.

Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com.

Im not an Iverson fan but I think Mark Cuban should say fuck it and bring him into Dallas.

and see Dallas go down the drain after this good start?

yeah we've had a great start, but I don't know if we have enough to beat LA.

could you post that one more time. i dont think i read that properly  :hihi:

My Nets are doing well...

At least you still call them your team.

A rare bootleg for you!

lol fucking Garry, that actually made me laugh.  :rofl:

We are truly blessed to have this man come back from retirement.

PHILADELPHIA -- Dust off the No. 3 jersey. Allen Iverson is a Philadelphia 76er again.

Sixers president Ed Stefanski announced the signing Wednesday on the team's Web site. Iverson is expected to make his debut Monday at home against the Denver Nuggets.

"In light of the recent injury to Lou Williams, which will sideline him for close to eight weeks, we felt that Allen was the best available free agent guard to help us at this time," Stefanski said in a release.

Williams, who averaged 17.4 points and 5.1 assists, broke his jaw in Philadelphia's loss to Washington on Nov. 24.

Iverson, his agent and business manager met with Stefanski, coach Eddie Jordan and two other members of the organization Monday.

The 34-year-old Iverson announced his retirement last week after an ill-fated stint with the Memphis Grizzlies. The 10-time All-Star was NBA MVP in 2001 when he led the Sixers to the NBA finals.

"We had, at times, a rocky road with Allen Iverson, but we also had a fantastic run with Allen," Peter Luukko, COO of Comcast-Spectacor, which owns the 76ers and Flyers, told The Associated Press. "The expectations with Allen have changed dramatically. We're not looking for Allen to individually lead this team the way he has in the past."

Iverson was offered a one-year, non-guaranteed contract on Tuesday, according to a person who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the contract talks had not been made public.

The Sixers would owe just under $650,000 if they guarantee his contract for the remainder of the season on Jan. 10. Stefanski plans to talk about Iverson's return in a noon teleconference.

"The whole situation wasn't about the contract and the money," Iverson's agent, Leon Rose, told The AP. "It was about the opportunity and the chance to come to Philadelphia."

In 10 seasons with the Sixers, Iverson posted the highest scoring average in team history (28.1), was second on the points list (19,583) and holds the record for 3-pointers (877). He was a seven-time All-Star, won four scoring titles and two All-Star game MVPs.

The Sixers (5-13) have lost seven straight entering Wednesday night's game at Oklahoma City and need Iverson to spark sagging ticket sales and their playoff chances.

Luukko said Iverson's deal was "absolutely, strictly a basketball decision."

This reconciliation was once thought foolish after their acrimonious split three years ago. Iverson's last game with Philadelphia was Dec. 6, 2006 in Chicago. He refused to play the fourth quarter and was banished from the team two days later. He was eventually traded to Denver as part of the Andre Miller deal, and bounced to Detroit before landing in Memphis.

"Certainly, the way it left off, it's surprising. But anything can happen in sports," Luukko said.

The 6-foot Iverson played three games this season with Memphis before taking a leave of absence to attend to personal matters. He was waived after the two sides agreed to part ways.

The New York Knicks considered signing Iverson after he cleared waivers, before deciding he would take too much playing time from younger players they are trying to develop.

He will likely start for the Sixers with Williams out. Iverson's refusal to come off the bench ended his time in Detroit and Memphis on a sour note.

Iverson would get another look at his former teams after playing Denver. The Sixers, who have not won a playoff series since 2003, play at home Dec. 9 against Detroit.

Iverson was the No. 1 overall pick in the 1996 draft, but his 10 turbulent seasons in Philadelphia were marred by his rants about practice, run-ins with former coach Larry Brown, arrests, and a failed rap career.

Iverson often arrived late for practices or missed them entirely. In one infamous blowup at the end of the 2002 season, he repeated the word "practice" nearly 20 times during a rambling monologue.

"Times change, situations change," Luukko said. "The best way was to make this a basketball decision. Don't get personal with it."

Iverson has career averages of 27 points and 6.2 points in 889 career games in 14 seasons. He is tied for the fifth-highest scoring average in NBA history and ranks third among active players.

Iverson has played in 71 career playoff games and owns the second-highest postseason scoring average (29.7 ppg) in NBA history, trailing only Michael Jordan (33.4 ppg).

I guess I'll have not one but two new Iverson jerseys under the Christmas tree this year :D

See 'ya at the ACC on March 7, Eazy E ;)

NBA.com uploaded an unreal video of Iverson highlights to celebrate the news:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/10/21/nba_iverson_rookie_vault.nba/index.html (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/10/21/nba_iverson_rookie_vault.nba/index.html)

prepared to be disappointed because Santa ain't putting no Iverson jerseys under your tree this year.

Iverson gets all his raw cooking and heating materials on Christmas Eve courtesy of the fat man.

Iverson live press conference right now. only 1 user is viewing it and it must be AMM

Hey Calen, you know what you should do?

You should hang all your Iverson jerseys up in your apartment, like retired jerseys at arenas.  You have so many, it would look cool.

Looking forward to Mondays game to see the 76ers lose against the chicken Nuggets  :smoking:

KOBE KOBE KOBE!!!!
9 STRAIGHT WINS...

KOBE IS THE MAN!!! Gotta give credit to Fisher too though  :smoking:  :beer:

Kids, I was at the game last name.

That tops anything I've seen in person.

and you didnt invite me  :rant:


(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009/images/12/05/1204_kobe_shot_t1.jpg)

I DID text you a picture and said wish you were here.

It's the thought that counts, or so they say.

DAMN IT

I fell asleep at 106-102 :'(

Dislocated pinkie sidelines Nuggets' Martin
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/12/08/nuggets.martin.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2


what a little bitch ass thug.

wow Utah only made 6 points in the 4th  :rofl:

I liked their jerseys.

The Answer was in fine form last night :smoking:

I hardly ever post in the NBA threads because my knicks have been awful for years  :hihi:  But they have been playing better as of late. I for one have always LOVED Allen Iverson because he always plays wit heart n passion every night.Both the Lakers n Celtics starting 5 seem ridiculous at this point in the season

KOBE!!! mr. clutch again!! I'm lovin these days GN'R rules the music world again!! and the lakers the basketball world... YEAH!!!!!

Bang!

Black Mamba!

What year is it again?  Is it 1987?  Some things come full circle.  Celtics and Lakers are forces to be reckoned with again.  What's with the disparity in home/road games for the Lakers?  17 home and only 7 road games so far.  They must have some long road trips ahead.

That's for sure.

Dirk and Carl Landry had a horrible collision last night

Dirk got 3 of Landry's teeth into his elbow.....

time to frame it and put it up with the rest of the other ones  :smoking:
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8431/dsc0064k.jpg)

Where can I get that?

http://photostore.nba.com/

Perfect.  Since I was at that game, that is something I MUST have!

I already have an idea of how I am going to do it.  Buy a frame that will accommodate said poster.  And then I'm going to sprinkle around the confetti I have accumulated at games and the parade.  Maybe even slip in a voucher for Two Free Tacos compliments of Yak in da Box.

Hahaha....

I'm gonna get another one soon but this time order a glossy one.

Gloss is boss.

Cold McGrady trade market

Tracy McGrady is making a league-high $23 million in the final year of his contract, and won't be easy to trade given his large salary and how little teams have seen him play this season. Rival teams say the Rockets are willing to take back long-term money for the right trade with McGrady, but no deal appears imminent. Talks could pick up closer to the trade deadline in February when cost-cutting franchises may be more attracted to McGrady's expiring contract.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/139011?eref=sircrc&eref=fromSI (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/139011?eref=sircrc&eref=fromSI)

McGrady, one of the biggest losers in NBA history, I wish he and his cousin Vince would combine their hearts so maybe it would equal one whole one.

LJ23 Buzzer Beaters - 2-3?

KB24 Buzzer Beaters - A shitload of them  :hihi:

3 in 29 days

ahhh good win last night. My cousin was mad yesterday when Lakers beat the Mavs  :rofl:

I think LB23 only has 1 game winning buzzer beater.  1.  His whole pro career.   1.

i know he has two for sure. 1 in the playoffs and one against golden state.

IVERSON LEADS SIXERS TO VICTORY IN RETURN TO DENVER

THE SPORTS NETWORK
1/4/2010 12:32:05 AM

Denver, CO (Sports Network) - Allen Iverson led Philadelphia with 17 points and seven assists in his return to Denver, as the Sixers held off the Nuggets, 108-105.

The 10-time All-Star Iverson returned to the Pepsi Center for just the second time since being traded to Detroit early last season. Following a disappointing stay in the Motor City, Iverson signed with Memphis this offseason but lasted just three games with the Grizzlies before being released and signing with Philadelphia.

Elton Brand added 16 points and seven rebounds for the Sixers, who finished a six-game road trip with a 3-3 mark. Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young each chipped in 12 points in the victory.

Nene ended with 24 points and 15 rebounds for the Nuggets, who have lost six of eight. Ty Lawson tied career highs with 23 points and nine assists, and Arron Afflalo and Kenyon Martin had 17 points apiece for Denver, which continued to miss guard Chauncey Billups (groin) and forward Carmelo Anthony (knee).

The 76ers started the fourth on a 12-4 flurry, which Brand capped with a basket to make it a 96-80 game in favor of Philadelphia.

Trailing, 103-89, Denver put together a 16-3 run to get within a point. Lawson tallied seven points during the stretch, including a layup to make it a 106-105 game tilt with 11.0 seconds to play.

Willie Green made 1-of-2 from the foul line at the other end to give the Sixers a two-point edge with 8.7 ticks to go. Andre Iguodala grabbed Green's missed foul shot and was immediately fouled with 5.4 seconds remaining. Iguodala also went 1-of-2 from the charity stripe, making it a 108-105 contest.

Afflalo missed a three-pointer from the corner in the final seconds.

The Nuggets led, 36-27, after the first quarter, but the Sixers slowly chipped away at their deficit in the second. Down, 42-33, Philadelphia went on a 13-4 run to deadlock the tilt. Marreese Speights' jumper made it a 46-46 game with about five minutes left until half.

The 76ers went in front near the end of the second, but Lawson's trey and jumper at the end of the half had Denver ahead, 60-59, at the break.

Trailing, 72-67, the Sixers ended the third on a 17-4 burst. Green's deuce gave Philadelphia an 84-76 margin heading to the fourth.

Game Notes

Philadelphia shot 50 percent from the field, while the Nuggets made 53.2 percent of their shots...Denver was shooting for its fourth straight win over the Sixers...Nuggets forward Chris Andersen left in the second quarter with a sprained left ankle. X-rays were negative.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=304669 (http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=304669)

Oh, I didnt know about Golden State.  Still. I just find it funny, every time Kobe does it, some analyst comes out with a stat about how he really isnt as clutch as he seems.  Ive even seen LeBrons shot listed as the greatest buzzer beater of the decade on a sportswriters list. Its a joke.

yeah his buzzer beater shot was great but not the best of the decade. if i had to give it to someone i would probably give it to Brandon Roy when he made that buzzer beater against the rockets. That is one of the best buzzer beaters ive ever seen.

not too worried bout my Mavs losing.. 2nd night of back to back.. just came out flat as fuck

Mavs drive me nuts though.. can't beat anybody easy it seems........ we need one more piece........ if not, we may make the 2nd round and then its goodbye.

we need to ship Damp and Josh to Washington for Caron Butler who are trying to slash salary.

Damp is expiring and Josh should be shortly.

Did Gilbert come out at the beginning of the last Wizards game and pretend to shoot all his teammates as a joke?  I see a picture that looks that way on ESPN with the whole team having a big laugh.

Yes he did, and he's being suspended indefinately for those actions.  What a dumbass!

Dumbass indeed. He's not gonna make his 143grand per game he was supposed to make this season.... Also i love how the lakers win every vote in nba.com :D

Thug life! That should be the new slogan for the NBA.  :yes:

WASHINGTON (AP)?The Washington Wizards plan to fine some players for participating in Gilbert Arenas?(notes) on-court antics that made light of his gun troubles, an NBA official said on Thursday.

what do you guys think. 25k fine for each player?

I love the NBA but these thug guys need to go. Needs to go Roger Goodell and start kicking these bastards out of the league.

McGrady headed to Sixers for Iguodala, Dalembert?

Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:43 am EST
By Mark J. Miller


The Philadelphia 76ers snagged one veteran player earlier this season when it signed Allen Iverson(notes) to a deal. Now it appears the team is very interested in bringing another onboard: the Houston Rockets' Tracy McGrady(notes).

According to PhillyBurbs.com, the Sixers have been talking to the good folks in Houston to see how a deal could be structured to bring the NBA's most expensive player to the City of Brotherly Love. The Rockets have till Feb. 19 to ditch McGrady and his $23 million expiring contract. The rumor is that Philly could send Andre Iguodala(notes) and Samuel Dalembert(notes) to Houston for McGrady.

It seems the Sixers are tired of losing and are looking to just jettison players and salary so it can start anew this summer when a massive crop of talented free agents hit the market. And if it got rid of Dalembert and Iguodala, the team would be $14 million under the salary cap for next season as well.
The Rockets may also be considering deals with the Chicago Bulls for a package with Joakim Noah(notes) and the Washington Wizards for a package that includes Caron Butler(notes).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/McGrady-headed-to-Sixers-for-Iguodala-Dalembert?urn=nba,213551 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/McGrady-headed-to-Sixers-for-Iguodala-Dalembert?urn=nba,213551)

Philly would be complete idiots to do that.. Igoudola is a stud. McGrady is a broken down never was.

I don't like it either. A.I. and Dalembert are both on fire when they're playing together.

It would be a horrible deal purely on talent given up vs. what they'd be getting in return, BUT the meaning behind the deal would be to clear cap space for next year.  Not sure what Igudola's contract status is but apparently they feel like they can't re-sign him or don't want to.

76ers coach Eddie Jordan made a series of odd decisions in the second half of Monday's game, particularly with the backcourt rotation. The result: Philly blew a 20-point lead to the lowly Timberwolves.

Allen Iverson played 23 consecutive minutes in the second half, then sat out the final minute of regulation and all of overtime. Lou Williams didn't get off the bench in the fourth, then played the final three minutes of OT. Jrue Holiday (Philly's best defensive guard) didn't play after halftime, despite logging 11 minutes in the first half.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NBA&id=409&line=127212&spln=1 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NBA&id=409&line=127212&spln=1)

Long time no post. I have enjoyed a few weeks away from society  :yes:

So what's happened in the NBA? I'm gone for two weeks and now I see the Grizzles above 50%!!  is this 2003 again?

Anyone who doesn't like Lebron James is a fucking FOOL.... I could watch this guy play basketball any day of the week, simply mindblowing.

<-------------------FOOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afKsssTPfyw

They are who we thought they were!

I'm still selling subscriptions to my daily publication, "Doom and Gloom."  Lakers fans get 75% off their first order, and a special edition "Doom and Gloom" hat.

The Celtics just look old.....

Yes they certainly do.  People keep saying, all they have to do is be healthy for the post-season.  Well, maybe that's true.  But I don't see it happening.  They haven't been 100% all season long, so why should I expect them to be come playoff time?

Garnett does NOT look "right".  Something is up with that knee....something more than just a tweak or strain. 

And Ray looks like he's running on 50 year old legs right now.  I've watched him since college....and he looks like he's ready for the senior circuit, right now.

He hasn't looked "right" since last year.

Remember how they kept saying Garnett would be available in the Bulls series "if needed?"

Unless he has major reconstructive surgery, he will never be the same player.  The Celtics organization is keeping this on the hush-hush.

Black mamba.

Kobe wasn't exactly lighting it up yesterday, though.  8-20?  Less then 20 pts?  Yes, he hit the game winner, but....where was he the rest of the game?  Had he shown up, the Lakers would've won by 20. :)

Broken finger?

Have you ever tried to play basketball with a broken finger?  Or write?

I tried dribbling a basketball with a sprained finger and I ran home and cried in my mommy's arms.

Many, many times.  You should see the knuckles on BOTH my middle fingers...both broken (more than once) while playing (and continuing to play) basketball. It sucks, but that's what trainers are for.

It hurts, but provided you tape it, it's never really effected my shot. Or my dribbling..but then, as a 4/5I never had to do a whole lot of that.

Even Kobe admitted it was the way they defended him and tried to make everyone else beat 'em.  He just couldn't get good shots off.

He's been struggling for awhile.

And, he did get plenty of wide open looks!  He just couldn't hit them.

On one hand, I'm glad the team stepped up, but on the other hand, Boston isn't so hot right now, so I'll curb my enthusiasm, if you will.

Rajon Rondo is wasting his talents over there.  The Big 3 will be no more come this offseason.

Likely by the trade deadline, if Allen's shooting woes keep up.  They'll trade him, and maybe another piece, to someone looking to clear cap space at the end of the season, so they can bring in a hired gun and make one more run.

Pierce and Garnett are going nowhere, though.  Pierce because....they're not letting him go.  Garnett because he has no place TO go, especially with his knee the way it looks to be.  And Rondo just signed a new deal that would make him very hard to trade.

But Ray is gonzo....

Utah Jazz....on the war path. : ok:

Allen Iverson Could Save His Career This Weekend

By Dwyane Montell
 

We are less than a week away from the 2010 NBA All-Star game, which will be played in front of possibly 90,000 people at the Cowboys stadium in Dallas. The one man who will have all eyes on him is the guy who has had all eyes on him for the past 10 years: Allen Ezail Iverson.

Iverson has a chance to prove to the world that he does deserve this spot in the All-Star game. And who knows, since he has been on this three-game personal leave to attend to his daughter, he may have also been training.

AI is one hungry player, and he is hungry to prove people wrong and prove to coaches and owners around the league that he is still an elite player. What better place to do it than the All-Star game?

Twenty-five of the best players will be playing in that game, and Iverson has a chance to show the world that he is still capable of taking over in big games.

Iverson has put on a show every time he has played in the All-Star game. He is a two time All-Star game MVP ('01, '05) and dropped 35-7-7 in the 2003 All-Star game, when his team came up short to the West in OT.

What a night it would be if Iverson were to win the game MVP for a third time this weekend. Imagine if he came out firing jumpers, crossing everyone up, and throwing alley-oops to LeBron and D-Wade like he did to Vince and T-Mac in the early 2000s. What if he hit three-pointer after three-pointer like he did in 2001, and what if his team won?

AI can have a 20 point, 10 assist game, and if his team wins, he will be the last man standing so that he can raise another MVP trophy.

This All-Star game is the most important of Iverson's career. It could be his last, or it could extend his career, depending on how he plays.

Coach Van Gundy will probably play him if he plays well in the first quarter, and if AI gets around 25 minutes, then this All-Star game could be one for the ages. What a feel good story it would be if Iverson, who was not wanted by any teams in the offseason, won the All-Star MVP, especially since his daughter has been ill for the past week.

Iverson owes the world a performance to remember. He owes the fans who voted him into this game a performance to remember. Iverson owes the owners and executives who did not want him on their teams during the offseason this performance. And most of all, he owes the Sixers this performance.  If they had not taken a chance, then this scenario would not have been possible.

Iverson needs this performance, and the world needs this performance. Iverson was born to be an All-Star. Now it is his time to shine brightest.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342963-iverson-could-save-his-career-this-weekend (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342963-iverson-could-save-his-career-this-weekend)

So much for that.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS



My Mavs made a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE trade today and I am so excited as if u can't tell


WE get:

Caron Butler
Brendan Haywood
Deshawn Stevenson


We give up
Josh Howard
Drew Gooden
James Singleton
Quinton Ross


WINNNNNNNNN

We have a much better team today.

Yeah that's a great deal for the Mavs.  I was hoping the C's could've pulled off the rumored Butler/Jamison for Allen/Scalabrine deal.  It sounded way too good to be true though.  Mavs did well, for sure.  Butler is a great player, and he played at UConn which is an added bonus.  :peace:

Worst dunk contest ever.

James and Wade need to enter the next contest....Hope we get some good contestants for next year contest since ill be at LA.

Retire the dunk contest.  Gerald Wallace first dunk was an all-time low point for this event.  The crowd didn't even flinch.

Yeah the dunk contest was awful.  It has been bad for some time now, although the last few years it was sort of brought back to life with Dwight Howard and Nate Robinson.  But last night was bad.  2 good dunks, and the rest were just bad.  I saw 2 better dunks by Stanley Robinson at the UConn/Cincy game yesterday.

I like how the TNT crew didn't sugarcoat it though and pretend that it was exciting.  They were honest about how much it sucked.

Gotta love Barkley for that.

He also made another excellent point, they should have let the winner from the Sprite contest participate.

Yeah, that guy would've brought the house down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2-hl5BkY5E

more of a 540 but still impressive.

Looks like the Celtics are close to acquiring Nate Robinson for Eddie House.  Now they'll have both the 3 point shooting contest champ and slam dunk champ.  As if that matters.  I honestly don't really like the deal.  I know Eddie House wasn't having a real great season shooting the ball, and that's basically all he does, but I know he's capable of catching fire and hitting big 3's.  I can't say the same about Nate.  On the plus side, he's a more capable backup PG to Rondo.  Something the Celtics haven't had since Sam Cassell 2 years ago.  I also think Nate is a much better defender than House.  All in all, certainly not a blockbuster deal by any means.  More of just tweaking the roster.  Celtics are still in trouble unless they can get healthy and stay that way.  And like Charles Barkley said.  "Old people don't get healthy.  Old people die."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/02/celtics-knicks.html

Cleveland are idiots

Antwan Jamison instead of Amare

retarded

With Amare u could've had a dynasty Lebron and Amare wouldn't be fair

Jamison 33 terrible defense.......

Yeah, but they didn't give up anything to add Jamison... From what I've read, Z is going to get a buyout and then sign back with Cleveland.  So they only gave up a pick for Jamison, Amare would have costed them more.  Furthermore, I'm not sure how great Amare will be without Nash.  Shawn Marion thought he was capable of being a huge star on a different team... then he went to Miami, TO & now Dallas to be average in all 3 places.

Amare has big time skill and Lebron is no slouch at passing

He averaged 20 and 6 without Nash in his 2nd season

thats too bad for the greatest shooter in the nba...they all can't be as tough as kobe.

Just when I was starting to gain some faith in this Celtics team.  A nice start to the second half, going 3-1 out west, though they beat a Kobe-less Lakers team.  It still counts though, and their win over Portland was impressive.  But Pierce was clearly hurt in the Denver game and was ineffective.  Garnett is still only about 75%, and I'm not convinced he'll ever be 100% again.  I just don't see this team ever getting completely healthy.  They haven't been all season, so why would they magically heal all of a sudden?

Is the Allen Iverson Era Over?

By Marc Hertz | Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:35 PM ET

The incredibly gifted basketball player is out indefinitely to care for his ill 4-year-old daughter.

If you're an NBA fan, you know it's quite possible we may have seen the last of Allen Iverson this season. He's been a journeyman the last few years, spending time with four different teams since the '07?'08 season. He's most recently played with the team that originally drafted him, the Philadelphia 76ers, but he's had probably his worst season ever.

And now, he's left the team indefinitely to be with his 4-year-old daughter, Messiah, who has an undisclosed illness. According to Phil Jasner and Bob Cooney of the Philadelphia News, the "indefinitely" could mean the rest of the season. Iverson may be one of the more enigmatic players to have played in the NBA the past couple of decades, but he also has his priorities straight. Not only when it comes to his kids, but in the community. Since 2000, Iverson has had a charity, the Crossover Foundation, with a mission "to improve and address the health, educational and social needs of underprivileged children residing in the inner cities."

Regarding his daughter, Iverson said last week, "I have five kids. None of them have ever been this sick. It's a first-time thing for me. I like to look at myself as a strong person, especially dealing with everything in my life. But this is a totally different situation; you find out you're not as tough as you thought you were when it's one of your kids."

And make no mistake, "AI" is as tough as they come. Years before the 6-foot-4, 220-pound Dwyane Wade was driving into the paint with reckless abandon, the 6-foot, 165-pound Iverson was throwing his body all over the place and somehow, some way, still getting up. As ESPN.com's Bill Simmons opined in 2006, "He's an athletic freak." Pure and simple, the guy can play the game.

Iverson turns 35 in June and he's taken a pounding over the years, so combine that with the current uncertainty surrounding his daughter's health and the future becomes more uncertain. And while he may have unwittingly torpedoed the near future of my favorite team, the Detroit Pistons, he's one of the most incredible talents the game has seen and, as Simmons noted, he's on the short list of players "who will never be seen again for genetic or physical reasons."

We hope it isn't the last we've seen of him on the court, but if it is, we'll miss him, as will the NBA. His combination of pure talent, brashness and fire has been amazing to watch and made him one of the greatest ever. We hope his daughter gets better soon and that, no matter what his NBA future holds, the work he does with the Crossover Foundation continues.

http://www.tonic.com/article/allen-iverson-uncertain-nba-future/ (http://www.tonic.com/article/allen-iverson-uncertain-nba-future/)

AI has been finished for 5 years


Mavs will Destroy the Lakers tonight!

Oh D, you are one funny guy  :hihi:

THE one and only highlight from the Celtics side of things during their loss to one of the worst teams in NBA history today.

http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/celts-get-crushed-by-worst-team-in-history-of-the-nba-tommy-heinsohn-too-busy-making-out-with-maria-menounos-to-notice-or-care/

Damn, she's fine!  And good for Tommy.  The guy is old, he deserves some loving.  I'm surprised he didn't try to slip her the tongue.  I think she would've been down.

Win without Caron Butler!


I went to the Dallas vs Atlanta game last night.

was amazing seeing Kidd make NBA history in person. Dirk did awesome as well so it was a great night.

very awesome game as the momentum shifts were crazy.

Thanks to Jamal Crawford remembering he was Jamal Crawford and shooting terrible shots and Josh Smith forgetting he can't shoot.

down 15, i told my GF "It ain't over" and god damn it, we came back!

Allen Iverson Could Be Playing For a Contender This Season
by Dwyane Montell

(http://i48.tinypic.com/vuk90.jpg)

It would be nice to see Iverson getting 30 minutes a night for a contending team late in the season. Iverson could also help a team that is a player away from being an elite team. He can help a lot of teams still but would they take Iverson?

The first team that comes to mind is the Celtics. This team has been bitten by injuries all year long and Iverson would be the perfect player to come in and rescue this team. Lately the Celtics have been struggling and many are saying that the Celtics glory days are already over because of the teams health. The C's have been playing without toughness and killer instinct lately and Iverson would be the perfect player to give them that toughness and killer instinct plus he can still score the ball. Iverson could give the Celtics the spark they are missing.

Another team that could really use Iverson is the Miami Heat. The Heat are currently 8th in the Eastern Conference and are a player away from being a top 5 team in the East because they have Dwyane Wade and any team that has a player as good as Wade can contend if it has the right players around him. Wade really wanted Iverson in the off season but it did not happened then now the opportunity could come up again and Iverson and Wade could form a back court that can surprise a lot of people come playoff time.

How about the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs still have a great big three with Duncan, Parker and Manu Ginobli. This season they have been sort of lost and are currently sitting at 7th in the West and are missing something. What if Iverson was the starting 2 guard for the Spurs with Manu coming off the bench for him. The Spurs would get 18 more points a night and 6 assists if Iverson was given Ginobli like minutes and the Spurs could possibly go back to the Western Conference Finals this season.

Many teams could use Iverson but those three come to mind right away. Some other teams that are a player away from contending with the Cavs and Lakers are the Raptors, Jazz and what if the Nuggets brought Iverson back? He would fit in perfectly with that team considering he was putting up 26.4 ppg and 7.2 apg just a two seasons ago for them. The Raptors could use another scorer and veteran that can still give you 20 in his sleep if given the right offence. Would the Lakers be a lock to win it all if they picked up Iverson?

There are a lot of teams that are in need of a player that can give them that swagger and toughness that Iverson brings. Also who wouldn't want a guy that can get you 20 points in his sleep. Iverson could be playing for a contender this season if he is waived by Monday and it would be the feel good sports story of the year if he helped a team get to the Conference Finals or even the Finals.

Think about the Spurs with Iverson playing 33 mpg and giving them 18-20 points a night or the Celtics getting that same spark from Iverson. Even the Jazz could do some damage in the playoffs with Iverson on the squad playing the same team oriented game he has been playing with the Sixers all year.

If Iverson is waived by the Sixers by Monday than Iverson will get his final chance to go out with a bang or even a championship and that would be the feel good sports story of the year considering all the stuff hes gone through in the past year and a half.

There are a lot of great teams that still having questions being asked bout them and nobody knows how far some of these teams can go.

Allen Iverson can be the "Answer" to those questions.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/353681-allen-iverson-could-be-playing-for-a-contender-this-season (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/353681-allen-iverson-could-be-playing-for-a-contender-this-season)

I'm not a big Iverson fan, but at this point I'd take a flier on him if I were the Celtics.  They've shown me that they are not ever going to be healthy enough to be a true contender this season.  Would Iverson help?  Maybe, maybe not.  But standing pat probably won't work in the end either, so it might be worth a shot to do something drastic.

You're both funny, in a non-funny way.

Lebron applied to change his number to #6 next season which is only necessary if he stays in Cleveland... doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's a good sign for Cavs fans.

Stop the presses and warm up those duck boats for another championship ride!  Michael Finley is coming to the Celtics.  Man, he makes the old guys on our team look young.   

The final piece of the puzzle is in place.

Celtics did win a title, so its hard to criticize but for the long term, one has to question the trades they made.

Rondo,Pierce,Al Jefferson and Jeff Green right now would be a lot better than the team they are putting on the court IMO.

They did  get a ring, but in 2 seasons, they will be right back to the 20 win team they were.

Well, they MIGHT be a better team right now without the KG and Allen trades, but I don't think that's for certain.  And like you said, they did win the title, so it's hard to criticize.  If KG didn't get hurt last season they would've had a pretty good shot at repeating.  This year has been a struggle with all the main guys being injured throughout.  Obviously age is starting to catch up to them.  I don't think Al Jefferson has been all that durable so far in his career either though. 

They're actually not positioned too bad for the next few years.  They staggered the contracts of the "big 3" so they expire in successive years starting with Ray this season.  It's a matter of if they try to keep them, re-sign them, or use the money elsewhere.  You could argue that they should've unloaded Allen's expiring contract this season.  I think they're still thinking they're as good as any team IF they can get healthy.  I just don't see that happening.

You wanna talk about bad Celtics trades.  How about sending Joe Johnson to the Suns for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk?  All so we could reach the Eastern Conference finals and get manhandled by the Nets.  Now THAT was a bad trade.

Kobe vs. Iverson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5wd_wT7No (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5wd_wT7No)

wow at this rate Mavs will win the #1 seed in the west  :o

Report: Iverson facing trouble

Multiple NBA sources say Allen Iverson is facing alcohol and gambling issues that have derailed his career and threaten his post-basketball well-being, Stephen A. Smith of the Philadelphia Inquirer reports in a column published Monday.

According to multiple NBA sources, there is widespread concern that the four-time NBA scoring champion, who left the Philadelphia 76ers in February to deal with his daughter's illness and will not return this season, "will either drink himself into oblivion or gamble his life away," Smith reported.

Iverson's gambling problem is serious enough that he has been banished from casinos in Detroit and Atlantic City, N.J., according to Smith.

The report comes as Iverson is dealing with significant personal problems.

Iverson's wife Tawana filed for divorce on March 4, the same day the Philadelphia 76ers announced that the All-Star guard would not return for the rest of the season. In the divorce filing, made at Fulton County Superior Court in Atlanta, Tawana Iverson said the couple's 8?-year marriage is "irretrievably broken" and sought full custody of the family's five children, child support and alimony.

Iverson, who played 25 games for the Sixers this season, returned to Atlanta in February to be with his family and deal with an undisclosed illness affecting his 4-year-old daughter, Messiah.

Smith, who has covered Iverson closely for years, wrote in Monday's column that Iverson needs someone with "the ideal combination of compassion and toughness" in his life. And former Temple coach John Chaney said that person is John Thompson, Iverson's former college coach at Georgetown.

"[Thompson] is the one guy who'll have a chance of slowing this train wreck down, who could wrap his arms around Iverson and have an impact, because clearly it has not been done," Chaney said, according to Smith. "But there's still this one question: Will [Iverson] listen?"

Iverson started the season with the Memphis Grizzlies but only played three games, amid disagreements over playing time, before announcing a short-lived retirement. He signed the 76ers as a free agent in December, making a tearful return to the city where he spent his first 10? seasons, won four scoring titles, earned the 2000-01 MVP award and led the Sixers to the 2001 NBA Finals.

Iverson was traded to the Denver Nuggets in 2006 and played for the Nuggets through 2008, when he was dealt to the Detroit Pistons.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

I'm leaning towards the white jersey.

I hope Dallas wins there next game  ;D Why? Because i want them to beat the Cavs season winning streak record  :smoking:

Dallas is a true dark horse.

quit jinxing my team guys

thanks

You believe in jinxes?

A man of your stratospheric intellect should know better.

u know my Mavs are better than your Lakers, so u are using reverse jinxcology to work in your favor.

I don't even know what to say to this one.

damn 2 loses in a row for Dallas  :no:

of course, their point guard is ancient, and their "leader" is soft as shit, ask the 07 Warriors.  As a Utah Jazz fan I would welcome a playoff  match up with the Mavericks, anytime, anyplace, anywhere.  yeah D, I said it. :o

damn 3 in a row. i guess i was wrong about the mavs after all... they aint no threat to LA  :smoking:

Portland is going to knock L.A. out in the first round.

I hope we get the Spurs instead.

Lose Spurs lose!

Its the NBA teams go thru ebbs and flows.. look at Denver, they are in the shitter also

all that matters is here in a few weeks when the playoffs start.

Though the spurs would be easier to beat, i dont think LA will have any problem if they face portland in the playoffs.

Yeah, the Celtics are starting to play well all of a sudden.  But I'm not about to buy into it.  Not yet, at least.  People (Boston media) kept saying that they'd be fine if they could just get healthy.  I find it hard to believe they would only put that together at the tail end of the season.  But, we'll see.  They still haven't proven they can beat any of the top teams consistently, and that's what the playoffs are all about obviously.

When Parker comes back healthy for the playoffs.. SA are still dangerous.

We're deep into the playoffs and nobody's talking about NBA? Come on.

I love how everyone on radio and TV yesterday kept saying how Lebron was going to be amazing against the Celtics, that he was going to come out in the first quarter and put the game away from the very beginning, "because that's what great players do." And then Lebron goes like 3-14 and his team loses by 30+ points on their own home court. I don't deny that Lebron is the most talented player in the world, the most gifted, but it annoys the hell out of me when people start comparing him Michael Jordan and some of the greatest players in the game.

Of course, everyone can point to his elbow for his shortcomings this postseason. He misses a shot, he has to touch the elbow and grimace; shoot a free throw with his left hand; complain after the game about how much it's bothering him; get 18 MRIs to help get the point across. Funny thing is, Kobe has two broken fingers on his shooting hand that have now become arthritic, he's got back and ankle issues, bad knees . . . But yet you'd never know it. He's still getting the job done. Kobe would have taken over that game last night and refused to allow his team to lose. Lebron seems to lack that in his DNA. He crumbles under pressure instead of rising to the challenge, and that's why he has no business being mentioned in the same stratosphere as guys like Jordan and Kobe and Magic and all the true greats.

+1  :beer:

I've stayed out of this thread for the most part because I just couldn't figure out the Celtics while they struggled through the regular season.  Some people kept saying they would just flip the switch when it came to the playoffs, and I bought it for a bit but down the stretch it just didn't seem likely.  But I think they've done it.  Regardless of what happens from here on out, they've played better for these 10 games then I can remember any 10 game stretch in the regular season.  Then again, they've had 2 very good matchups for them so far.  Miami was Dwayne Wade and little else.  Cleveland is Lebron with a little better supporting cast but they're proving once again that they're not nearly as good as their regular season record indicates. 

As for Lebron, I'm not buying the injury talk at all, if that's even going on anymore.  In his defense, he hasn't used that as an excuse in this series once the ball was tipped.  And it was obvious with his explosion in game 3 that he still had the potential to go off.  I would expect him to have a similar mindset for game 6, although I would've expected the same for game 5 at home.  But, it's now or never for Lebron.  The Celtics better not let up like they did in game 3 because they do not want to return to Cleveland for a game 7 like they did last year against Orlando.

Overall, though.  This series has been so uneven.  The Celtics had their worst home playoff loss in franchise history in game 3.  Cleveland did the same and topped them last night.  The Celtics dominated game 2 outside of about 4 minutes where Cleveland cut the lead to 10.  They also dominated the first half of game 1, but crumbled in the second half.  Game 4 in Boston was by far the closest and most competitive game.  Outside of that, you can't get a feel at all for this series except for the fact that the Celtics have been the better team for the majority of time.

Lebron is proving to be pretty soft and not very mentally tough.

I guess Kobe is still the greatest player and I was def wrong about that.

Lebron is turning into Eastern Conference Dirk Nowitzki.

This has been one of the worst playoffs that i can remember. Cle vs Bos only good series but the East Final and the Finals should be awesome.

Honestly the Cleveland/Boston series hasn't been all that great either.  It has to be the most non competitive 6/7 game series in some time.  Two enormous blowouts, and really none of the games have gone down to the wire.  Games 1 and 4 had their moments, but aside from that the games haven't had much suspense to them.

I agree that these playoffs haven't been great, but they've been interesting. Most people thought the Mavs would be the Lakers' biggest threat in the West, yet the Spurs knocked them out in the first round. Then a lot of people jumped on the Spurs' bandwagon, myself included, but then the Suns swept them, which really, really surprised me.

I think the Suns/Lakers matchup has potential to be a great series. Personally, I'm pulling for the Suns. Nash is one of my favorite players; I'd love to see him get a ring. This is probably the Suns last chance at a championship. Although everyone thought their window had already closed before this season, too.

And in the East most people immediately penciled in the Cavs, just like they did last year. I guess it's still possible they could come back and win, but I don't see it happening. What gets me about Lebron is that he doesn't even seem bothered by the situation he's in; he's shown no intensity or passion. But even if they somehow come back to win the series, I don't see either the Celtics or Cavs beating the Magic. The Magic so far have looked unstoppable.

I think Lebron is poised for a big game tomorrow night, like in game 3.  It's now or never for him. 

As for Orlando, the layoff could hurt them early in the Eastern finals.  IF the Celtics can advance they've been a very good road team this season so they could steal one in Orlando early.  Of course they haven't been all that great at home, so that's another story.  But they almost beat Orlando last year in the playoffs without KG, so I wouldn't necessarily pencil them in the finals just yet.

Such a great day in basketball tonight  :smoking:

I have to admit, when Lebron hit those back to back 3's to cut the lead to 4 I got a little worried.  Fortunately he had one of his NINE turnovers the next possession and the C's were able to hold on.  Lebron's stat line was great, outside of the nine TO's, but those were killer.

Should be a great series with Orlando.  I foresee another 6/7 game series.  Could go either way.  The Celtics generally matchup with Howard and play him pretty well.  Perkins is able to take him one on one, without the need to double team.  I do think Jameer Nelson will be a little more of a challenge for Rondo at PG though.  Celtics have to look to come out and steal game 1 as the Magic could be a little rusty with all the rest they've gotten.

As i stated earlier in my thread. Everyone piles on my fave player Dirk NOwitzki

Lebron is exactly the same. comes up small in the biggest game

I simply can't believe the Celtics pulled it off (and that's coming from a Celts fan!)!

The way they played since Christmas, I didn't think they'd be able to beat the Cavs.  I thought it would be a good series, and go 6 or 7, but I just thought father time had caught up to them.

Happy to say, it looks like I was wrong.  They looked better this series than they have all year.   They looked like the championship caliber team they were 2 years ago...maybe better because of the emergence of Rondo.  They FINALLY look healthy, and they're playing like a team.  If they can keep that up...look out Orlando. 

I'm right with you.  I didn't expect much at all from the Celtics in the playoffs.  I figured they'd probably get by Miami, but didn't give them much of a chance against Cleveland.  But they honestly dominated the series and it does appear they're finally starting to gel.  I don't know if it's so much that they didn't care during the regular season and were just waiting for the playoffs to start, but whatever the case I hope they can keep it up.  Orlando is the hottest team in the NBA, 28-3 in their last 31, so it ain't gonna be easy.

When Ray Allen is shooting the way he has been in these playoffs, they're a different team, it just opens up everything for the rest of the players. 

Orlando is just on fire.  Even assuming that Vince Carter completely folds against the Celtics (which I expect him too), the rest of the team is still a tough cover.  Rondo will be expending more effort on defense this series trying to handle Jameer Nelson, the Magic have at least 3 solid 3-pt shooters, but it's hard to lock down the perimeter when you have to worry about Howard. 

What happened with Orlando being on fire?  Maybe the Celtics defense has something to do with that.  Howard had a big game tonight on offense but didn't have much help elsewhere.  Pierce schooled Vince in the first half.  Now that he doesn't have to guard Lebron he can focus on the offensive side of the ball a bit more.  C's have a commanding 2-0 lead now heading back to Boston.  I'm not taking anything for granted.  I know Orlando is fully capable of winning in Boston, as they showed last year.  I just never bought that they were a better team this year, especially matching up against Boston.  Hedo Turkoglu gave the C's fits.  Vince Carter, not so much. 

One big positive for the Magic both this year and last is JJ Reddick.  I'm forced to hate the guy since he's a Duke guy, and I never remember him being anything more than a 3 point shooter at Duke, but he harasses Ray Allen to no end.  Ray just can't get going against him.  Luckily that hasn't hurt them thus far.

Go C's!!!

I never really understood all the fuzz about Lebron James. Sure he's a very talented player who posts incredible stats year after year, but he ain't no clutch. Simple as that. Kobe, on the other hand is still doing what he does best, stepping up when his team needs him the most.

I can't believe Kobe, at 32, has only been awarded once with the MVP whereas James, at 25,  has already two. I really don't know why the media gives Lebron so much credit when he's not achieved anything yet. When Jordan was 25, he had already lead the league in scoring twice, won an MVP, two slam dunk contests, best defensive player of the year, steals leader...his individual achievements were better than Lebron's today, but no one dared to even put him on the same level as Magic and Bird. It had to be in 1991-1992 when Jordan was 28-29 years old (with a few rings under his belt and dozens of individual achievements) when the US media realized he was on the same "league" as bird and Magic.

Why the rush with James? Why can't the media be fair with Kobe Bryant?

Well I think recently Kobe has begun to get the respect he deserves.  He didn't win until Shaq came aboard and when he left he couldn't win without him, and Shaq won with Cleveland.  But the last few years Kobe has proven he CAN win without Shaq, but during those golden years Shaq was THE man and Kobe was second in command.  I thought the Lakers made the wrong choice by letting Shaq go, but obviously I was wrong.  So Kobe is getting his just due now, in my opinion.  Although I will agree, I think he's clearly a better player than Lebron, yet Lebron gets more accolades.  Of course Kobe does have a much better supporting cast than Lebron.  I'd have to think if James was on the Lakers and Kobe on the Cavs, the roles may be reversed.

Yeah, but it could also be said that Shaq couldnt win without Kobe. It wasnt until Kobe became a starter that the Lakers won. And Shaq left and joined an already good team, and played second fiddle to Wade.  Kobe carried Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as STARTERS into the playoffs. Say what you will about what went down, but Kobe was on a dismantled team that was rebuilt around him, and he won another title.  But whatever, its a pretty moot point now.
    The main reason that Kobe doesnt get the praise and accolades, and MVPs, that he deserves is simple.  He plays in LA. People love to hate on LA. Especially the media.  Also, he came along in the era of everyone still on MJ's jock. Nobody (sportswriters) wanted to admit that their hero had an equal. 
    All Kobe does is play ball, and win. He's not jovial in interviews. He doesnt dance on the sidelines. He doesnt have gimmicks. He doesnt want to talk to you.  He just wants to play. And he was punished for that. Every year, during MVP talk, the criteria for an MVP changed to what was opposite of what Kobe was doing.  Carry a team on your back, then "MVP" meant best player on the best team. If the Lakers were the best team, then hey, "He has too much help to be MVP"
   As far as the Kobe/ LeBron debate goes...well, you see who is where.  But LeBron will continue to sing, dance, and smile, so he can rack up more popularity points.

Well put Crow.

However, I don't think Bryant is equal to MJ. I'm old enough to have followed both of their careers since they started to play in the NBA and Kobe needs at least 8-10 more years of play to accomplish what MJ did. Not only concerning rings, but also MVP's and individual achievements; scoring titles, slam dunks, steals leader, Finals MVPs, Defensive player of the year, highest point per game average in NBA finals...having said that, it's the best player - by far - I've seen since Jordan.

And regarding Shaq and Kobe, The Lakers threepeated in the 2000's because they had a dominant player inside; Shaq and a clucth player, Kobe. Onea'l would sit down on the bench in the final minutes of play because poor free throw percentage. I remember, even in the year 2000, the Lakers already would hand the ball to Kobe in the final moments of every match instead of Shaq so I don't personally think Onea'l was solely responsible for those rings. He was a dominant force down the paint, but no more than Pau Gasol is for the Lakers nowadays.

I just came on to laugh at faldor a little bit.

Besides, you can't really say LeBore has a crappy team around him.  Haven't the Cavs had the best regular season record two years in a row?  Chew on that.

Kobe couldn't have won with Shaq, but Shaq couldn't have won without Kobe either.

LeBron could have all the individual accolades in the world, the fanbase here in LA cares about one thing and one thing only.

(http://www.zoneradio.com/wzon/e107_images/newspost_images/ctt08_005.jpg)

(http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/7/3/e/2/Championship_Banner_At_6dab.jpg)

I assume he meant Miami.

Yeah, I did.  My bad. Obviously Shaq is nowhere near the player he used to be.  I didn't mean to insinuate he did anything good with Cleveland.  I think they were actually a worse team with him on the floor.

Give a little gust of wind and I'm jettin'.

I agree on all points there.

And I believed that from the start.  Lots of people thought that was a great move, but I just didn't say how it made them any better.  Same with Orlando basically swapping Hedo Turkoglu for Vince Carter.  Vince has actually done a pretty good job with the Magic, but I just think they were such a better team and tougher matchup (at least for the C's) with Turkoglu.

Should the Magic bother to even show up for game 4?  It doesn't seem like they showed up for game 3, so why start now?  I know some 3-0 series deficits have been overcome recently.  2 Boston ties, with the Sox coming back against the Yanks and the Bruins choking it to the Flyers.  But I just can't see this series turning around.

amare stoudemire had a lucky game today.

Garry sez:

Boston puts up their 18th banner in the fall of 2010.

GO SUNS!

I had a dream last week that the Celtics would be playing the Suns in the finals.  I think that's how the dream went at least.  It was either that or I was having a debate in my dream as to which team I'd rather face, if the Celtics are able to finish off the Magic.

Will all this Phil Jackson drama be a distraction to the Lakers?  I still don't see how it's legal for an NBA team to talk to a coach who's already a) under contract and b) still coaching in the playoffs.  That just doesn't seem right to me.  Especially after Mark Cuban got fined for saying he'd be interested in obtaining Lebron through a sign and trade.  At least Lebron's season is over and is a free agent to be.  Seems contradictory to me.

Okay, I'm officially worried about the Celtics now.  They got blown out tonight and were completely outplayed for the second game in a row.  However, that's the least of their problems.  Kendrick Perkins got T'd up twice and was ejected from the game early in the second half.  The second technical was utterly ridiculous and should really be rescinded.  However, IF it's not, he'll be suspended for game 6 since it's his 7th tech of the playoffs.  If that's not enough, Glen Davis left the game with a concussion in the second half and look all sorts of disoriented.  Minutes later Marquis Daniels suffered the same fate.  Now Daniels isn't a huge deal since he hardly ever plays.  He was basically just playing because Perk was out and they were forced to go with a smaller lineup.  But IF they don't have Perkins AND Davis for game 6 they will be severely undermanned.  You'd have to give the Magic a huge upper hand in that scenario to send the series back to Orlando for a game 7.

So what looked like a cake walk after the first 3 games has turned into anything but.

The Sports Gods have come to Boston to collect on letting the Red Sox come back from 0-3

Boston Bruins.. now Celtics?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

WHY IN THE FUCK

would a coach leave his best player on the bench till a little over 3 mins left in a MUST WIN CLOSE OUT GAME?

that has to be the dumbest coaching shit i've ever seen!

Going to game 1 again this year, "lol."

Any predictions for the finals?  As a Celtic fan, I'd like to say I think they'll win, and they very well may.  My only worry is, they may need to win at least 2 games in LA because they haven't been very dominant at home this season.  They actually had a better road record than home in the regular season.  So far in the post-season they're 7-2 at home, 5-3 on the road but they've lost a home game in each of the last 2 series.  So IF that trend continues and the Lakers steal a game in Boston they'd have to win 2 in LA.  With the 2-3-2 setup Boston would pretty much HAVE to be up 3-2 when they head back to LA to have a chance.

I'd say if the C's win, they do it in 6 and if LA wins, it's in 7.  But ultimately, I'm going C's in 6.

Pau Gasol fears angry black men.. KG terrifies Pau

Celts in 6

lakers in 6

Celdicks in 4.

Bryant goes down with an injury in the second quarter of game 1.

it's pay back time!!
first it was the suns and now the celtics...
With one more ring in kobe's hand maybe 20 years from now this era will be remembered as the kobe bryant's era... u know 5 or 7 rings, 81 point performance etc, etc.

GO LAKERS!!!

...And you still live in 2008!

That happened two years ago. In the mean time, the lakers won a championship - with Gasol. He's the main reason why the lakers have actually been in contention all these three years (says Bryant, Odom and Jackson). His addition provided the lakers the edge they needed to take their game into another level.

BTW, Gasol totally outplayed another black man (Howard) in last year's final, but I guess Dwight wasn't angry enough??  :P


Lakers will win probably in 6. Reason why is simply because this series is a no match up for them. Jackson's concern should be how to stop Rondo and Pierce. The Celtics  big men don't stand a chance against' the lakers big guys. KG is old and won't average more than 13 and 7. If the lakers are able to play hard defense on rondo and pierce so they don't combine for more than 40 points on each game, this series will be over in 5.

Dwight Howard isn't intimidating, he dances and smiles and is religious. But yeah, Orlando should've won last year and blew it with dumb coaching moves and Courtney Lee blowing a layup

KG talks trash and is physical and Rasheed is a thug and Perkins is rough. Pau is soft as Charmin toilet paper.

Well you seem confident, and that's good.  A few things though.  Granted KG isn't quite as good as he was 2 years ago before he got injured, but he's playing A LOT better during the playoffs then he did all season long.  He's nearly back to his old self, so I wouldn't be so quick to think Pau and company will trample over him.  And admittedly the Lakers have a good frontcourt with a lot of size, but the C's are no slouches in that area with KG, Davis, Wallace, and Perkins.  I hear Bynum's draining of his knee didn't work out so well and he's not going to be anywhere near 100%, so that may be a bit of a blow to the formidable frontcourt.

Don't forget about Ray Allen either, you didn't mention him at all.  He's still capable of catching fire and scoring 30 points on a given night.  So it's far from just Pierce and Rondo, and I honestly don't see how they shut down both those guys anyway.  Who's guarding them, Artest and Kobe?  Then who guards Ray?  There's going to be a mismatch somewhere regardless.  Two years ago Kobe roamed free and paid little attention to Rondo.  I'm not so sure they can play that way and have the same success this time around.

Drives me nuts when people say Kobe is in Jordan's league

NO


Kobe 4-2 in finals 1 mvp
jordan 6-0 6 mvps


Kobe played and won 3 titles with most dominate player in the game, Jordan WAS most dominate player in the game.

Dude, seriously bringin up that debate again?  Total MVPs are pointless, and just prove that Jordan played in a watered down league. Nash's MVPs should been Kobe's anyways. Neither player has a true weakness, really. Jordan got WAY more calls. Kobe has the ability to create and make more difficult shots than Jordan ever did. Its all a wash.  But it makes a fun and pointless debate.  Magic was better than Jordan, anyways.

KG's numbers speak for themselves. We've seen a significant drop in his contribuitions since 2008. However, he's still vital to the Celts cause he brings other intangibles to the franchise; leadership, experience, focus...but as far as contributions on the floor, I think he's far from where he was a few years back.


Wallace plays more like a small forward these days. He's always looking to shot three's, so he'll probably be guarded by Bryant or Artest. That leaves Perkins, Garnett and cry-baby Davis. In theory, not strong enough to face the likes of Gasol, Odom, Bynum...


True, but he's not going to score 20 every night. Allen can score 27 one day, but remain in single digits for the reminder of the series.



To me if the lakers are able to stop these two by preventing a combined score of more than 40 points a night, the Lakers will be in business. It's obvious that is impossible to stop both players on every single night. The way Rondo has been playing and Pierce's clutchness, the Celts could have a chance if both players are smoking hot each and every night. I don't see that happening though.

I believe Jordan Farmar will play more than usual. He's most likely to play better defense on Rondo than Fisher. Kobe will eventually guard Rondo in given moments, but if Kobe plays hard on defense, he'll probably lose some intensity on the offensive end.

I still say Lakers in 6.

haha nice, i predicted in facebook we would win by 13 points and we did  :rofl: i was wrong with kobes points though, i said he would score 37.

Ignatius, do you own a crystal ball?

Everything happened pretty much as you described it.  BUT, it's only one game.  I have to keep telling myself that at least.

I was very impressed with the Lakers though.  I didn't know they could play defense like that.  The C's could just never get into any rhythm on offense and the Lakers were pretty much able to do whatever they wanted for the most part on offense.  Honestly, I'm surprised the game was as close as it was, because it was a complete mismatch in my eyes.  The Celtics were able to stay within striking distance but you never got the feeling that they had it in them to make a serious run.

Gasol was impressive too.  He completely dominated the game, even moreso than Kobe.  Kobe did what was expected.  Now maybe you Laker fans expect that from Pau these days, but I certainly didn't.  He came up big and dwarfed KG, like Ignatius said he would.  Kevin was WAY too tentative, passing up open shots, etc.  And Ray Allen was in constant foul trouble so he was never able to get going.  I still think the Celtics have an advantage in the backcourt with Ray, Rondo, Pierce but they were never able to exploit it tonight due to foul trouble.  Refs called the game extremely tight tonight on both ends.  I'd like to see them let them play a little more as the series progresses.

Well, at least no one got hurt.  Other than that, not much positive to bring out of this one as a Celtic fan.

I just live 9 hours ahead of LA, so I watched the match 9 hours earlier than you guys... :hihi:




I just don't think the softy reputacion was fair anymore. In 2008 he was indeed overwhelmed by the pressure, the moment...and things didn't really go his way. However, during the course of these two years, he's proved already he's gotten tougher. Not only he's much stronger than he was, but he's much more aggressive on both ends of the floor. Take a look at his rebound stats for instance. He's increased his boards per night by almost 30%.

Gasol is the kind of guy who makes things happen. He opens the floor, finds the open guy if he's been doubled, makes plays, he shoots well...he's an all around player. I know I talk a lot about what his teammates think of him, but recently I saw a video in which Kobe was asked "who's your favorite NBA player"? An he replied, Pau Gasol.

Here's a link some about Gasol's "softeness".

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/06/04/gasol.finals/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Yeah, Gasol certainly does look like a different player after watching him last night.  Granted, I'm just basing it off that one game and what you Laker fans have to say as I haven't seen that much of him the last 2 years.  But he was VERY impressive last night.  He was a force and the Celtics had no answer for him.  His teammates put him in great positions to succeed too.  Just an overall near perfect game for the Lakers.  If they can keep that up, they're going to be tough to beat.  I'd expect the Celtics to bounce back.  They did not play well.  They hung in there early on but lost control towards the end of the first half and were never able to get it back.  Hopefully Ray can stay out of foul trouble next game.  It's a tough task to guard Kobe though so it won't be easy.  I thought Tony Allen did a nice job on him but he's nowhere near the offensive player Ray is, so that had a negative effect on the Celtics gameplan.

Now we wait until Sunday.  This schedule is ridiculous.  You really need 2 days off to play in the same city?  For game 3 they fly across the country and only get 1 day off.  Yeah, seems logical.  I know it's all about TV and which days they want to air the games, but it's just ridiculous.

I totally agree with you faldor about the schedule.. it's ridiculous!!

well, I think my beloved Lakers are going to celebrate in Boston!! hehe

I think they will celebrate in Boston too, meaning they'll probably win a game there.  Hopefully they won't be have THE celebration there though.  Game 2 is going to be pretty important for the C's because I just don't think they can beat LA 3 straight at home.  So if they lose game 2 AND 1 game in Boston, they'd be down 3-2, needing to win 2 in LA and I wouldn't like those odds.

Celtics were nearly unbeatable in Boston in 2008, but that's been far from the case this year.

Kobe..Chyea..It's Ya Boy, Young!

sad that the lakers lost but that was a good game. Ray Allen just killed us  :rant:

Ray Allen was just en fuego in the first half.  Rondo took things over in the second half.  Ray hits an NBA finals record 8 threes, Rondo gets a triple double.  And the Celtics overall defense was back to normal this time around, holding the Lakers to 40% shooting.

Once again, as long as the C's backcourt can stay out of foul trouble they have a huge advantage over the Lakers guards.  Kobe can only guard one guy back there and Fisher or whoever against either Ray or Rondo is advantage Celtics.  Showed that pretty clearly tonight.

On the flipside, it's become pretty apparent that the Lakers do in fact have a pretty sizeable advantage in the frontcourt.  Bynum and Gasol were beasts tonight.  KG was non existent until late in the 4th quarter.  Pierce was very quiet as well.  Both Artest and Odom were garbage for the Lakers.

And the refs continue to call the series way too tight.  Let them play.  Guys seem like they're playing the entire game in foul trouble.  Celtics bigs, Ray Allen in game 1, Kobe tonight.  Not to mention the Lakers went to the line 41 times tonight.  That's just ridiculous.  It was obvious they were making up for game one when the Celtics took 2 more free throws than the Lakers.  They weren't going to let that happen again.

One final thing.  I don't think I've ever seen a guy have as big a negative impact on a game in such a short time than Shelden Williams did tonight.  Throwing the ball away twice in the final 5 seconds of the first half was the LOWlight for him, but that wasn't the half of it.  Not sure what the +/- was for him, but it had to be - A LOT.  There's a reason he's been seldom used in these playoffs, and I'd be surprised if Doc calls upon him again.  He was just beyond awful.

Good win by the Celtics. Allen had to had a big night, and he did. Hopefully this is the last of him we see in the series.

Rondo was incredible, so was Rivers on that time out. Gasol had a bit night again with only 6 blocks.

Off to Boston now, hopefully the lakers are able to clinch a win or two.

D Fish!!! he is amazing!!!

Ignatius, once again on the money with Ray Allen.  He was spectacular last game but as you said, he can disappear, and he did more than that tonight.  I think he tied for the worst shooting performance in Finals history going 0-13.  And he missed the layup at the end that was waved off because of a offensive foul by KG.

Fisher was huge down the stretch.  Celtics made a valiant effort to come back on the defensive end.  They just got down too big in the first half.  It was too much to overcome.  KG had a big game for the C's.  Once again though, one of the big 3 was in foul trouble.  It's been a different guy every game, tonight was Pierce's turn.  It'd be nice to avoid foul trouble one of these games.  Refs STILL calling things too tight.  Way too many NON shooting fouls being called.

Once again, I was very impressed with the Lakers overall defense.  I guess game 1 wasn't a fluke.  They've played spectacular defense in the two games they've won, something I didn't think they were capable of.  I thought they needed to score over 100 to win.  They're proving that that's not the case.

Well, I didn't expect the Celtics to win 3 at home.  However, I also didn't expect them to lose the first one at home either.  Now games 4 and 5 are must wins because you don't want to have to win 2 more in LA.

Shove broken glass up the Celtics ass.

"No means no?"

Fuck you.

what happened to celtics in 4?

Obviously the Lakers showed up, which surprised me.

Did you hear that NO MEANS NO chant when Kobe was shooting free throws?  Weren't those the same fairweather fans chanting MVP three years ago?

I think Delonte West was sitting next to Ray Allen's Mom

The officiating SUCKED last night.  I'm not saying it gave anyone an advantage (I don't think it did...it sucked on both sides of the ball) and I don't think it contributed (much) to the outcome...but it completely killed the flow of the game.

Ticky tack fouls, blown out of bounds calls that needed reviewing, missed foul calls....just horrible all the way around.  Made the game hard to watch...and I'd guess it made it hard to play, for both teams, too.  I suspect it kept a lot of the shooters out of rhythm....Kobe included.

I'm a Celts fan, and I've thought they'd lose in EVERY round except the first.  I didn't think they could be Cleveland, and they did.  I thought Orlando would be too much for them...and they won that series pretty handily.  I STILL think the Lakers are the better team this year, and I suspect they will win the series.  But at this point, I'm so used to the Celts pulling magic tricks that I wouldn't be shocked to see the Celts win the next 3 games by 20 points and cruise to a series win.  Surprised..but not shocked.  Ultimately, this series probably goes 6 or 7 games with the Lakers winning (much as it pains me to say it).

Go ahead Celts..prove me wrong again. :)

Refs were terrible and at one point in the second half it appeared to me, through my admittedly "green colored glasses" that the refs were doing all they could to have the Lakers win.  The bogus foul called on Rasheed, followed by another bogus foul that I can't recall the details on.  However as the game went on, they made some bad calls that benefited the Celtics to even things out a bit.  But you're right, the officiating was just bad all around and I won't say it had an impact on the outcome of the game.  That game was decided in the first half when the Celtics dug themselves way too big a hole to get out of.

I thought Derek Fisher's post game comments about Ray Allen were pretty telling and on the money.  He said it's tough to do what Ray does, run around so much on the offensive end and then guard Kobe on defense.  Saying he himself gets tired just chasing Ray down on defense, yet Ray has to do THAT with Kobe as well.  Maybe his legs were just shot.  No disrespect to the Lakers defense on him, it was certainly much improved.  But he still had a fair number of open looks that just didn't go down.  Tony Allen has done a nice job guarding Kobe but he's not an outside threat, though he WAS more effective the way Ray was going last night.

Also, this was the first game played on "short rest".  I definitely think the Celts legs are questionable...and their collective legs is more of a disadvantage for the Celts than Bynum's ONE knee is to the Lakers.

I watched a little SportsCenter last night, which is always tough to do when your team loses a big game.  Rachel Nichols said that she spoke with Doc and apparently Rasheed Wallace's back is worsening by the day and he's at the point where he can't play him for more than 5 or 6 minutes at a time.  That's certainly not a good thing for the C's, especially with the Lakers having such an advantage in the frontcourt.

Celtics NEED to bounce back in game 4, then they'll have the extra rest for game 5.  IF they can win that they go back to LA, lose game 6 and see what happens in game 7.  Obviously I've deviated from my prediction of Celtics in 6.  No way they win 3 straight in this series.  It's looking more like my other prediction, Lakers in 7.  I'll take the opportunities a game 7 offers though at this point.

Game 5 is gonna be the one that determines the series. Bos will bounce back and take game 4

and then game 5 will decide the series.

Boston need to do their best to get KG involved early, he has been on a milk carton first 3 games.

I think they should put Rondo on Kobe. His quickness and long arms could bother him, he wouldn't get as tired and his game isn't a perimeter game so it wouldn't affect his offense as much.

i am not a huge fan of the instant replay. just kills the flow of the game.. so even if it does get a few calls right.. i think it just hurts the momentum. its a free timeout.

did allen get the record for worse shooting performance in a finals or was he off by a few shots?

I thought what was most hilarious was towards the end on the play where Pau flopped on the pick from KG, how Ray Allen STILL missed the bunny layup! HAHA!

 hahah yeah, even the announcers said, if they didnt make that call it wouldn't of matter because he missed that lay up... something among those lines.

no

I think he was off by a few shots.  I thought they had said the record was 0-13, which is what he shot, but I think the record was actually a little worse than that.

It's time for Paul Pierce to have himself a game.  It was his turn to play the entire game with foul trouble last night, but he has to get it going.  KG finally had a good game, Rondo is doing his thing, they relied too heavily on Ray to carry over his hot shooting last night.  It just didn't happen.  Pierce has to get it going, and I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to.

The record was 0-14, I think. Allen was 0-13.

I say Lakers win tonight, Celts win game 5, Lakers finish them out in game 6.

The last game wasn't pretty. Although I guess you can attribute all the poor shooting to good defense. It's hard to imagine Kobe having three bad shooting nights back to back to back. I say he's on fire tonight, more like he was in game one.

Like everyone else, I wish the games weren't being called so closely. Seemingly every game one of the superstars have been in foul trouble and unable to get into a rhythm.

Well, I think tonight the refs finally did let them play a little more.  No real complaints there.  Kobe was better tonight, but 10-22 isn't what I'd call "on fire".  He has flashes, but he's been unable to sustain it for any length of time.  I would say he's due for a breakout game where he just takes total control, but it hasn't happened in four games.  Maybe that's not a fluke.  Granted the guy is scoring around 30 per game, but he's taking a LOT of shots to get there, and the Celtics will take that.

The bench was huge for the C's tonight, especially down the stretch.  I don't know if I've ever seen a situation like that before in the Finals.  The Celtics were extending the lead with the second unit out there against the Lakers for nearly the entire 4th quarter.  Glen Davis and Nate Robinson were huge.  Tony Allen played great defense on Kobe again down the stretch.

Paul Pierce finally got it going, coming out strong to start the game.  Didn't do quite as much in the second half, but he didn't have to since the bench took over.  As a Celtic fan, I fear this series could alternate wins all the way through.  I'm not sure either team is going to win back to back games.  Game 5 is yet again a MUST win for Boston.  So hopefully that alternating win trend ends.

U know whats gonna be funny?
All the media that ripped Alvin Gentry for sticking with his bench are now gonna praise Doc for sticking with his.

Did it work for Gentry?  I don't recall.  Doc just did the logical thing.  The bench was playing so well they didn't give him a chance to take them out.  He actually sent KG, Pierce, and Rondo to the scorer's table with 5 minutes left but they made a few more great plays so Doc told them all to sit back on the bench.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Nah, remember, i was even bitching about he leaving Nash out for 10 minutes and Phoenix lost game 6.

as i stated earlier, this game was must win but now means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the series.

game 5 is the series for Boston. if they lose, its over. no way they win 2 in LA

Doc was smart.

We all talked about how legs were an issue in game 3..that the Celts had tired legs.

So Doc ended up using his bench more, getting the big names more rest.  Now, it worked out WAY better than he could have hoped (extending the lead), I'll grant you.  But it was a smart move.

Hopefully, it means the C's legs are fresher going into game 5.  If the Celts can pull out game 5, I don't hate their chances of taking 1 of 2 in LA.

So far, no team has managed to win 2 straight.......about as even a series as you can get.

Agreed.  Game 4 was obviously WAY more important to the Celtics than it was the Lakers so it's obviously not the end of the world for them.  Even if they lose game 5 they still have 2 shots at home to win the series.  Of course they'd also be one loss from ending their season too, so obviously game 5 becomes quite important for both teams.  I do think the C's can win ONE game out in LA, but not 2.  That's just asking too much.

And Laker fans can take some solace in the fact that they were in the game the whole way last night without Bynum being any factor at all.  He now gets 2 full days rest to get his knee back in shape.  I think he'll be better in game 5, but then the cross country plane flight may minimize his play in game 6.  The Lakers are just a different team without him, obviously.  The Celtics are able to drive the lane without the fear of getting their shot blocked by two 7 footers.  And even though they missed a boatload of layups, they played much more aggressively, and I think the absence of Bynum had a lot to do with that.

Scary part is, everyone keeps expecting KG and Pierce to really bust out.. but i don't think its happening. Glen Davis is a bigger matchup nightmare than KG.

KG is just long.. Davis' bulk gives the LA frontline problems cause they can't match his power.

Whatever it takes.  KG was asked if the "Big 3" was going to bust out last night, or needed to, or something to that effect.  His response was that he didn't care if it was the "Big 3", it could be ANY 3.  Last night it was Pierce in the first half and Davis and Robinson in the 4th.

I have tickets to games 6 and 7.  Yahoo.

ONE more win needed for the C's.  Did what they needed to do and won the last 2 at home.  Now the Lakers need to do the same as they head back to LA.  I still find it hard to believe the Celtics could beat the Lakers 3 straight games, BUT I just don't think the Lakers are as strong as they were earlier in the series.  The loss of a healthy Bynum makes them such a different team.  It makes the frontcourt and Pau much easier to handle for the C's.  Bynum was a non factor tonight outside of a few minutes in the first quarter.  Pau had by far his worst game of the series.  Kobe was the only Laker who played well, and he played REAL well in the 3rd, but the Laker defense couldn't hold the Celtics in check.  When Bryant was scoring all those points, the Celtics were matching him on the other end.  And still, Kobe is getting the majority of his points off of jump shots.  The Celtics will take that all day long.  Limit him from driving to the hoop and getting his teammates involved, mission accomplished. 

So it's back to Cali.  Obviously I'd love for the C's to win in 6, but I won't be afraid if it goes 7.  The Celtics were finally able to break the string and win back to back games.  Now, can the Lakers answer and follow suit?

Boston are just the better team.

Kobe did great but in doing so he totally got his teammates out of rhythm offensively and defensively.

Ron Artest, I said it since day one was a terrible idea for this team and he continues to prove me right.

Pau has been soft as baby's asses as i predicted.

Again, I wish the refs would swallow their whistles a bit more.  There was that sequence, late, where the teams spent more time walking back and forth to the free throw lines than the clock spent running.

As before, no "outcome changing" bad calls (though I still am not sure that shot by Allen hit the rim)...but a LOT of calls, in general.  Some of that probably speaks to how physical these games are being played (and I like it!), but some of it is just the Refs being overanxious.

I think, over the past 2 games, Doc has once again outcoached Phil.  That's pretty much what won the Celtics the series back in '08. 

And Phil handed the C's some pretty compelling bulletin board mateiral with his comments, in game, during the 4th quarter.

If the C's grab a lead early, it might be a rough night for the Lakers.  That being said, I expect the Lakers to win game 6 and then, for game 7, all bets are off....

The Lakers bigs looked frustrated, and Bynum looked to be in a LOT of pain.

I give the Celts D all the credit in the world for the frustration level.  I don't think this was a case of "bad games" for the Lakers Bigs...this was a case of the Celtics D just shutting them down.  They couldn't get the ball in good position to shoot (or pass).  They were getting stripped  and blocked (did you see that block by Tony Allen???!!) and muscled off their spots all game long.  The Celtic D just made things VERY uncomfortable for the Lakers bigs all night long....this game was, for me, the closest I've seen the Celts to the games in 2008. 

And, like 2008, late in the game....Kobe was yelling at his teammates.   That, to me, never bodes well for the Lakers....

only problem i have with the refs is how for almost the entire game they let them play and then last 5 mins or whatever they start calling everything

u cant let players get use to a certain way of playing and then change

that said, LA are still shooting WAY more FT's than Boston and still losing.

Kobe is getting Pau out of his game by ball hogging and shooting too much. sure he scored a lot and did great in the third quarter but to the detriment of his teammates. it got so bad his teammates started jacking up horrible shots just cause u knew they wanted to shoot also.

in Kobe's defense i will say this, I don't think his Micheal Jordan BUT, Jordan never played a team as good as Boston in the finals.

Lamar Odom seems to be too concerned with hanging out with the Kardashians and he's forgotten that his team is playing for a NBA championship. He's had one decent game this entire series, and in the other games he's been pretty much non-existant. Kobe is frustrated with the lack of help and so he's trying to do everything himself. Ron Artest was brought there for his defense, and, for the most part, I think he's done a pretty good job on that end--- but damn, he kills his team on offense with all his terrible shots.

With Bynum hurting, you would think Odom would step up, but he's been horrible. People always say how much Odom sacrifices by choosing to play with the Lakers, whereas he could go to a lesser team and be a star. The guy is talented, but his head isn't in it or something. If the Lakers lose the series, they can singlehandedly blame Odom.

Odom just doesn't match up well against the Celtics.  He's a big man who doesn't like to play big.  He'd rather hang around outside and he can't defend down low.  The Celtics handle those types of players with relative ease.  Just look at how ineffective Rashard Lewis has been against the C's the last few years.  They're basically the same player, though Lewis is a better shooter.

So I wouldn't say Odom's ineffectiveness is due to lack of effort.  He's just overmatched.

Well that was ugly.  I think I watched a grand total of 2 minutes of that game.  Fortunately I worked late and didn't have to see any of that disaster firsthand.  I listened to the first half on the radio and only lasted a few minutes in the third quarter before I threw in the towel. 

In a way though, I think I'd almost rather the Celtics get blown out like that than lose a close game.  Now, they SHOULD come out hungry and more focused for game 7 since they got their clocks cleaned.  The Lakers were the more desperate team and played with so much more energy it was a mismatch from the beginning.  These teams have been about as equally matched as they could be the entire series so you would think this was just an aberration.  The Lakers are not 20 points better than the Celtics on your average night.  They certainly were tonight though.

The C's have suffered quite a few blowout losses this post-season and they've bounced back to win the following game each time.  Hopefully they'll be able to continue that trend into game 7. 

I didn't expect the C's to beat the Lakers 3 straight games.  A game 7 was destined to happen.  So we'll see how it goes on Thursday.  Looks like Perkins probably won't be able to play, which is a blow to the depth of the team.  Honestly though, Kendrick hasn't had a very good series.  At times Doc has closed games with Davis rather than Perk anyway, so I don't know how huge a loss that actually will be.  He has played good defense at times.  I just hope Doc goes with Scalbrine over Shelden Williams off the bench.  I don't trust Williams at all the way he's looked in this series.

Lakers...Chyea!!!!

LAKERS BACK TO BACK!!!!
I was reading some of the stuff some of you wrote... Pau soft?? Boston the better team?? ridiculous comments...

We are the champs yeeeeeaaaahhhhh!!!

gotta give Ron props, he kept us in the game.

Congratulations to the Lakers.

It wasn't a pretty game. Both teams played excellent defense, but both team were absolutely putrid on offense. At times it resembled more of a rugby game with all the players wrestling and diving on the court. The game was extremely physical, but I'm glad the refs let them play. It looked like the Celtics were going to win, but the Lakers somehow found a way to pull it out. Ron Artest has received a lot of flak throughout the playoffs, but he was the MVP of the game, imo--- although Gasol was big down the stretch. Who would've thought the Lakers would manage to pull off a win with Kobe struggling the way he did? I think the Lakers just wanted it a little bit more; they out-willed the Celtics.

And those last few minutes were insanely entertaining. Neither team could make a basket all night, then suddenly they're swapping 3's. Most of the games in the series weren't really all that great, but this one lived up to the hype. Even just watching it on TV you could feel the energy and the importance of every possession.

I've been complaining that the officiating was lousy all series, and last night was no exception.  But, up til last night, I didn't think it had any effect on the outcome.

Last night, it definitely did.  Once the Celts stormed out to their big lead, the officiating DRASTICALLY changed.  Lots of bad calls (and non-calls)...and a majority of them went the Lakers way.  Some of the horrendous calls (and non-calls):

The blocking foul on Pierce, where Kobe clearly lowered his shoulder, in the open court.  The biggest problem is...Allen was called for the charge on an almost identical play earlier in the game (and rightly so) when he lowered his shoulder.

The non-call when Pierce drove the lane, was fouled at least twice on his attempt to shoot, where he ultimately had to push the ball to 'sheed, who couldn't keep the ball in bounds.

The very bad (and obvious) no-call on the loose ball foul by Gasol on Rondo, where he shoved him out of the way (and to the ground) to get an offensive rebound late in the game that turned into points.

The very bad (and obvious) no-call on the up and down by Gasol, on a clean Celtic block where the ball never left Gasol's hand, late in the game.

The 3 bad foul calls (one on Davis, one on Pierce, and one on Garnett) on clean blocks (apparent via replay), late in the game.

Now, there were certainly some no-calls on fouls the Celts committed, too.  I can think of a couple Garnett plays that were pretty obvious fouls that didn't get called....but there seemed to be FAR more of those calls that went the Lakers way.

Home court?  Maybe..but this game reminded me of one of the reasons I rarely watch NBA ball:  The officiating is TERRIBLE.

I'm sure there will be a number of people who chalk this up to "sour grapes"...but I invite you to read my past posts in this thread.  I've been on the officiating the entire series....whether the C's won or lost.  This isn't about minimizing the Lakers win....they were, IMHO, the better team coming in and I've no problem with them winning.  But it made last night's game hard to watch...because you couldn't clearly get a sense if the Lakers were REALLY better, or if the zebras just sucked.  Given how lousy the officiating was all series, I guess it was just a matter of time before they had some effect on a game's outcome....and given this was a close game, I guess it' s unsurprising that it was this one.  Still, I feel "cheated" out of a good game...not a champioinship, but a potential classic game 7 for the ages.

To give the Lakers credit....their comeback wasn't completely fueled by the refs.  They managed, for a large stretch of the 3rd qtr, to turn the Celts into a perimeter team while they had their way driving the lane.  They played VERY good defense, late (as did the Celtics).  They did what I expected them to do and get the game close, late.

It was a great Finals (minus the officiating being lousy) series, and it was about as evenly matched as you could get.  I think these teams could play 15 games, and it would be an 8-7 series.  So, congrats to the Lakers on a fine season.  I went in thinking they'd win it, and they did.  

^ I agree with much of that, but I chalk it up to karma.  Home court without question affects the refs' abilities to stay objective, however, Lakers earned home court by playing better than the Celtics did in the regular season.  Celtics dogged it over various stretches of the regular season and it came back to haunt them. 

i never place blame on Refs

if the Lakers lose, id see Laker fans making the same case and pointing out things that could've been called.


Boston lost cause they could not rebound, Ray Allen couldn't make a shot, and they went away from the pick and roll to Paul Pierce.

KG played small and Ron Artest really stepped up big time.

Thank you..Enough with the refs

Yeah...Lakers won!

It thought I was going to arrive to LA on time, but got here very late last night. Nevertheless, what an awesome feeling. It's cool to see all those lakers jerseys and flags sticking out of the car windows.

Lakers won cause they showed more heart in the end. Plain and simple.

heart or  Kendrick Perkins being injured.. however u want to look at it.

Going into half time, the teams had shot basically the same number of free throws.

By the end of the game, Lakers shot 20 more FT than the Celts.

People can want to discount the effects the refs had on the game if they want.  It's your pair of blinders.  I can think of a couple of bad no-calls and calls that favored the Celts.  I can think of about 10 that favored the Lakers.  I'm not saying the officiating was great on either side of the ball...it was just worse against the C's.    But you can't objectively watch that game and NOT think the officiating was awful, and seriously favored the Lakers.  It's just a fact.  The guys doing the commentary even noticed it.

And yes, I know, all you purple and gold fans are going to want to think it's sour grapes.  If that's what gets you through the night...fine by me.

The Lakers might have won anyway.  And it's not really the OUTCOME that bothers me (I pretty much expected them to win, from the get go).  It's the fact the refs impacted both the quality AND the outcome that bugs me.

It's hard to rebound, in big spots, when the Lakers (on 2 or 3 different occasions), late in the game, clear out the C's with obvious loose ball fouls.  Gasol's OBVIOUS shove of Rhondo was only one of them.  And they were not "going for the ball/fighting for position" fouls.   Perkins being out didn't help, either.

Allen couldn't shoot...that's true.  Pierce going to the hole stopped because the Lakers clogged the middle and THEN started fouling him when he would get close...and they wouldn't get called for it.  That started as soon as the C's were up 13.

KG actually, I thought, played fine.  But he can't overcome Perkins not being on the floor...and Davis/Wallace didn't do much but fill space.  Artest got hot at the right time, and his perimiter play was largely why Kobe started to be able to be effective, again.  The C's couldn't cheat on the double team EVERY time Kobe put the ball on the floor.

That was a bit more than the typical home game bias...and it didn't really kick in until the C's hit their 13 point lead.  Up til then, the officiating was equally terrible.

I think, in game 7, if it's a foul on one end, it's a foul on the other.  If it's an up and down (and a super obvious one), it's an up and down.  There are some things you simply have to call the right way.  And the refs didn't, down the stretch of that game.  Plain and simple.

Again, not upset over the outcome.  Upset by how it came to be.  I feel like I was robbed of a classic game 7, for the ages.

Yeah but many factors play into it. Which team is aggressive? who is attacking the basket?

if Boston are settling for jumpers and aren't attacking the rim, then they aren't gonna get LA in the penalty, and aren't gonna shoot FT's on every foul call.
Bos being undersized, they committed fouls, got themselves in foul trouble and the bonus.

now, i will concede when a team shoots that many more FT's, of course they are at an advantage* I am a Mav fan, so if anyone has a right to bitch about refs, its me and other Mav fans after how D Wade got 5000 FT's a game.* but the refs didn't make Ray Allen shoot terrible,t hey aren't the reason Boston got annhilated on the glass.

KG didn't play fine. His Rebounding was attrocious.

Let's don't forget how LA got screwed in game 5 when Ray Allen's shot didn't hit the rim but yet Boston got the ball and a new shot clock.


I don't know if its just perception or what, but refereeing, umpiring etc in every sport seems to really have went to shit. I blame it on Sports talk radio, and the 24/7 coverage and I think Refs get nervous and choke.

Jalen Rose is reporting that Lebron James WILL NOT return to Cleveland and Chicago,Miami and LA Clips are the top teams in the running

Come on MARK CUBAN!!!!!!! get in this race for Lebron.

we could give Cle. Caron Butler, Roddy Beaubois and Damp's expiring non guaranteed contract.

Nah, LeBron has to stay in the East where he can pad his stats...

I think Lebron should go to Chicago.  Good young team, dynamic duo with Derrick Rose.  And as much as I'd love to keep Ray Allen on the Celtics, I wouldn't blame him for following Lebron wherever he may go.  He'd be a nice complimentary piece for a Lebron led team.

I think there's some truth to that, though not because of stat padding.

I think, if the goal is to win championships, LeBron is better served staying in the east...because it means not having to contend with the Lakers until the finals.  The Lakers are going to be good for awhile, yet....

Sure, there are other good teams in the East, and it will largely depend on "what else" is on his team, and how the free agency market plays out this year.  But the Celts are definitely on the backend of their time at the top.  Orlando is good, but they don't have enough to contend with Lebron and "someone else".  In fact, that's true of most of the East.

As much as I hate to say it (and, like you, I've followed Ray since UCONN), I don't think the Celts are going to want to keep Ray around much longer.  It's almost time for them to get younger, and I suspect he'll be the first piece to go.

I'm not sure he goes with Lebron.  His perimiter shooting would be a nice compliment, but the question is:  Will any other team really want to depend on him, given the number of NBA miles on those legs?  Especially if you're trying to build a contender?  I just don't know.....

I think Ray has a good 3 years left in him at the very least and could still be a huge asset to a championship caliber team.  His minutes may need to decrease a bit, but he could still produce at a high level for 30 minutes a game.

I agree the Celtics need to get younger, which probably means goodbye to Ray.  I just don't see them being a better team without him, regardless of who replaces him.  It's a tough call. They were 4 minutes away from a championship.  I do realize they need to rebuild eventually, but I also think they could be a contender next season with their current core in place.

NBA draft tonight. Always love the draft, though it's lost a little magic for me over the years.

in Ray Allen's defense, he did do a great job guarding Kobe Bryant which took all of his energy and legs. Kobe shot under 30 percent in the 4th quarter for the series.

Good point D.  He did do a great job on Kobe all series long.  Coming to Boston he wasn't really viewed as a good defensive player.  I think he proved he can and did guard the best SG's in the game.   He can still stroke it and his health is not a concern. I think he'd be a fine addition for a team with championship aspirations, and unfortunately I think his best chance at another ring might be somewhere other than Boston. 

I know id welcome Ray Allen in Dallas.

Things are about to get crazy as free agency kicks in in less than 24 hours.  Where will Lebron go?  It seems he'll go somewhere as staying in Cleveland seems to be less attractive than going to Chicago or Miami.  At least as far as a supporting cast would go.  He could make more with the Cavs I think, so they do have that going for them.

Paul Pierce is opting out of the final year of his contract which would've paid him 21 million.  I'm thinking that he still wants to stay in Boston and will allow them the chance to extend his deal.  If that happens, they could actually end up saving a little money.  He's always said how he wanted to play his entire career with one team.  We'll see if that holds true.

Remember, a lot of this opting out is precipitated by the looming new Collective Bargaining Agreement, on the horizen.  Players are worried...and maybe rightly so.  So if they can opt out and make a deal under THIS CBA, they're gonna do it.

I think Pierce stays.  I think it's 50/50 with Allen.

One thing for the C's, though:  Perkins, we found out yesterday, has a torn ACL.  He's out until at least January.

Combine that with Doc not knowing if he's staying or going, Tom Thibodeau gone, 'Sheed apparently retiring....the team is in more flux than at any point since they brought in KG and Ray.  It's going to be an interesting off season. 

What do you think:  They let Pierce go and sing LeBron?   :rofl:

dont feel like typing it all out again but visit here to see why I think Lebron should come to Dallas


http://simplysports.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=opinion&action=display&thread=25

ConanOBrien
 
I don't care where LeBron James ends up... As long as it's not at 11pm on TBS.
about 1 hour ago via web

 :rofl:

Iverson Plans Comeback

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 18, 2010

Allen Iverson is working on a comeback. Gary Moore, Iverson?s personal manager, said Friday that Iverson was planning to return to the N.B.A. next season. Iverson joined the Philadelphia 76ers last December and took a leave of absence in March because of family issues.

?Allen is working out and he?s getting himself prepared to make his return,? Moore said in a telephone interview. Iverson, who turned 35 on June 7, has not spoken publicly since leaving the team.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/sports/basketball/19sportsbriefs-iverson.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/sports/basketball/19sportsbriefs-iverson.html)

 :smoking:

ahahaha that hilarious... and no one cares about AI.

BOSH ANNOUNCES HE WILL JOIN WADE WITH MIAMI HEAT

MIAMI -- Chris Bosh is leaving Toronto for Miami, saying it's not about the money but about winning.

Ending months of speculation, the former Raptors forward announced Wednesday that he will sign with the Miami Heat, joining his good friend Dwyane Wade.

Both Wade and Bosh were part of this year's blockbuster free agent class that also includes LeBron James, who will announce his intentions on ESPN on Thursday night (TSN, 9 p.m. ET).

It had long been expected that Bosh would not return to Toronto, but Wednesday's announcement provided the confirmation.

In an interview with ESPN, Bosh said he wanted to land with a team that would compete for and NBA championship. In his seven years with Toronto, Bosh has only played in 11 playoff games.

"I think both Dwyane and I, we both wanted an opportunity where right away we would be competing," Bosh said. "We're ready to sacrifice a lot of things in order to do that. It's not about the money. It's not about anything else except for winning. I'm a winner. Dwyane's a winner. We're going to bring winning to Miami."

Bosh, 26, said leaving Toronto wasn't an easy decision.

"I've been there for seven years, it's pretty much my second home," Bosh said. "To leave that has been difficult, even throughout this whole process."

Still, Bosh seemed to be having fun as teams attempted to woo him, frequently posting his thoughts on Twitter.

"It's been an exciting time," he told ESPN. "It's been one of the biggest stories in sports. Just to be a part of that I felt that I had to enjoy it instead of maybe just trying to run away from everything. Instead of doing that, I embraced it."

While the Raptors have said they were preparing for life after Bosh, nobody from the team was saying much about Bosh's announcement Wednesday.

"I have nothing official from anyone," Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo said in a text message to the AP.

A Raptors official said there would be no further comment from the team during the official signing moratorium, which ends Thursday.

The Raptors do have several sign-and-trade options from teams interested in acquiring Bosh, who averaged a career-best 24.0 points and 10.8 rebounds last season for Toronto.

When asked about a reported sign-and-trade deal between Toronto and Cleveland, Bosh said he didn't know the details.

"I leave that for my agent," he said. "I really don't know the specifics in that conversation... I wasn't sure if LeBron was coming back and I wanted to leave that decision up to him. I wanted to choose the best situation for me and my family."

A sign-and-trade would mean more money for Bosh. The Raptors could give him a six-year, US$128-million contract but another team can only offer a five-year deal worth $96 million.

Bosh is the latest Raptors star to head south after Damon Stoudamire, Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady all left Toronto for other teams.

Wade said the fact that Bosh was coming made his decision to stay in Miami much easier.

"I'm so glad it's over," Wade said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I had to do what was best for me. And I know I did that."

Bosh and Wade are friends, were Olympic teammates on the gold-medal team in Beijing, dined together at times during the free-agent interview process last week in Chicago and were part of that star-studded draft class in 2003 -- Bosh went fourth, Wade fifth.

Wade said when free agency began that he would likely only stay in Miami if the Heat lured either Bosh or James to south Florida.

Now they're waiting -- like the rest of the league -- to see what James will do.

KNICKS, STOUDEMIRE AGREE ON MAX DEAL

New York, NY (Sports Network) - The New York Knicks have landed the first big name free agent of the offseason by agreeing to a five-year, $100 million contract with center Amare Stoudemire.

"I am looking to build something special," Stoudemire pronounced. "This is a perfect situation for me. This is a legendary city."

Stoudemire has been in New York since Saturday and was meeting with Knicks brass late Monday after a weekend of being entertained by the club. He will re-join head coach Mike D'Antoni, who coached the forward for five seasons when he was with Phoenix.

The moratorium on official signings is not up until July 8, so the contract can't be finalized until then. Yahoo Sports! first reported the parameters of the contract last week.

Stoudemire all but confirmed the news, posting thank yous to the Suns organization, coaches and fans on his Twitter account, ending the posting with "sorry It didn't work out. Gone!"

Stoudemire is but one of a gaudy free agent class this offseason led by LeBron James. All roads seem to go through James, as the reigning two-time league MVP was wooed by the Knicks, Nets, Heat, Clippers, Bulls and the Cavaliers.

"I think he knows how great this city is. He has a decision to make but I'm definitely going to reach out to him," Stoudemire said of James.

James' decision is expected later this week, while the Knicks were reportedly granted a second meeting with his agent, Leon Rose, on Saturday after conducting their formal proposal Thursday.

It remains to be seen if the addition of Stoudemire, a five-time All-Star, would be enough to get James to join him in the Big Apple.

Stoudemire decided to opt out of his contract with the Suns, for whom he had spent his entire eight-year tenure in the league. He was set to make $17.7 million next season and averaged 23.1 points and 8.9 rebounds while shooting 55.7 percent from the field over 82 games last season.

It was just the third time in his career the 27-year-old had played a full slate of regular-season games because of injuries. Stoudemire suffered a partially detached retina in February, 2009 and underwent microfracture surgery in October, 2005. The report in the Post stated the contract was not able to be insured because of Stoudemire's prior injuries.

Taken with the ninth overall pick in the 2002 draft by Phoenix, Stoudemire took home that season's Rookie of the Year honors and has career per-game averages of 21.4 points, 8.9 rebounds, 1.4 blocks and 1.3 assists.

He's shot 54.4 percent from the floor in 516 career contests, 499 of those starts, and posted 24.2 points, 9.2 boards and 1.8 blocks in 52 playoff games. The Suns were bounced by the eventual NBA champion Lakers in the West Finals last season.

Monday's developments all but assure that fellow free agent David Lee's time as a Knick are over.

Celtics signed Ray Allen to a 2 year 20 million dollar deal to keep the core intact.  They're also said to be close to coming to terms with Jermaine O'Neal to give them some front court depth and fill in for Kendrick Perkins while he's out until January or so.  I realize Jermaine isn't the player he used to be, but I think he'd be a good fit for them considering their other options.  I love the guy, but I wanted no piece of Shaq after seeing him clog the middle in Cleveland.  And I've never been a big Brad Miller fan.  He's not enough of a rebounder for a big man, and the C's need some serious help in that department.  Brendan Haywood could've been another option I suppose.

Anyhow, down to the prime time event tomorrow.  It's D Day.  Where's Lebron going folks?  Any predictions?  I never really felt he was going to stay in Cleveland, but a lot of the so called experts are now saying that's what he's going to do.  I don't think he will go to Miami with Wade and Bosh.  I just don't see how that could possibly work.  I think his best shot at winning a championship would be in Chicago, but does he want to play in the shadow of Michael Jordan?  Even if he won 3 titles, he'd still pale in comparison to Air Jordan.  Is New York a possibility?  Is Amare enough to entice him?  I think Carmelo apparently wanting to play for the Knicks next year could be intriguing to him.  But again, I don't see how one team can have 3 young stars like that.  So maybe Cleveland is the answer.

I'll go with Chicago though.

All the experts are saying Lebron is going to sign with the Heat, but I just can't see that happening. Bosh fits well into the Pippen/Gasol-sidekick role, and he'll be fine alongside Wade. But I don't see how Wade and Lebron can play on the same team. It just presents too many problems. Both guys need the ball in their hands. And the Heat is Wade's team; if Lebron goes to Miami, Wade will the one who orchestrated it. With the media's love for Lebron, how will Wade feel when Lebron gets all the attention and it's Wade's team? Besides, by signing Lebron, they'll have to fill out their roster with minimum salaries. I'd still take Orlando and Boston over Lebron, Wade and Bosh if they have a bunch of sucky players around them.

And as much as Lebron seems to care about his brand, about being a billion-dollar athlete and having all the sponsorhips and whatnot, I think going to the Heat would hurt him in that area. IMO, the margin between Wade and Lebron is a lot smaller than most people think. I'd rather have Wade, personally. At least he's clutch. But even if the Heat win a championship or two or three, it'll be like Kobe winning with Shaq.

And yet another thing, if Lebron decided on the Heat, why wouldn't they all three announce their decision together? Why does Lebron need his own day (and his own freaking show on primetime!!!). I think he stays in Cleveland or goes to NY. Those are the only two possible options. I actually say he chooses NY. Lebron cares just as much, if not more, about the entertainment and side-show stuff than he does about winning a championship, and in NY he'd be able to take his brand and exposure to all-new heights. Plus with Amare there now, and Carmelo or Tony Parker or someone else next year, they would have a very good team.

Just imagine how much people in Cleveland will hate this guy if he bails on them, though, and spends a whole hour tonight to rub it in their face. The most honorable thing to do would be to stay in Cleveland. But they just haven't been able to make any moves so far to improve their chances of winning a championship.

I'm gonna go out on a BIG limb, laugh in the face of all the "experts" saying the Heat deal is almost a sure thing, and go with:

The Knicks

Well said.  Agree with everything there.

I still think Chicago would be the best choice for Lebron.  Rose, Boozer, Noah.  Pretty good starting blocks for him to join forces with.  I, like you, just can't see how Bosh, Wade, James would work in Miami.  They'd obviously be a formidable Big 3, but I don't see how they wouldn't have the WORST 4-12 in the NBA.  Lebron is going to be in Carmello Anthony's wedding this weekend, if he could convince and assure James that he would come to the Knicks the following year than I guess they could still be in play.

At least he's getting this over with somewhat soon and not letting it drag on and on like Brett Favre.  But this prime time BS is quite ridiculous.

Agree with Pilferk, a couple experts have leaked it saying he is going to NY


It won't be Cleveland..t hey'd be 3rd or 4th best

Chicago is the BEST place talent wise, but once again.. the whole Jordan thing.. not too good.

I think he will join Amare in NY *I think with Amare talent wise, the Knicks would be on par with Cleveland *Look at Cleveland's roster.. it is pretty terrible on paper.

Cause next year they can get Parker or Carmelo.

so Im goin Knicks but I think he should go to Chicago.

YESTERDAY afternoon, EVERYONE, everywhere, was sure he was going to the Knicks.

This morning, EVERYONE, everywhere, is sure he's going to Miami.

Different sources, different stories.

I contend that none of them really know butkiss.  :)

If Lebron had any heart(which game 5 of last years semi's showed us he doesnt) he would stay in Cleveland and try to win a championship for his hometown.  Michael Jordan never abandoned Chicago and ran to a loaded team with his tail between his legs to win multiple championships, even after Detroit was bitchslapping the Bulls out of the playoffs every year.  If Lebron pulls this Miami stunt he can forget about "the greatest of all time" title, he will never get it.  Not that he would have gotten it anyway, but you get the point.  A move to the Knicks to bring back to life a dead franchise also woudn't be the worst move he could make, I could respect that as well.

I think for Lebron it has to be NY,Chicago,Cleveland..and who knows maybe its NJ with Jay-z..but I dont but him going to the Heat what so ever

oh what to do with my lebron james jersey

I blame Cleveland

they could've had Amare Stoudemire for JJ Hickson last year and didn't do it. If they get Amare, maybe they end up with both right now instead of nothing.

I think Losing Lebron for NOTHING is worse than anything. I mean, no sign and trade, they get NOTHING

now we will see how great Lebron really is, Cause Cleveland will be lucky to win 20 games without him.

Miami are gonna be fun to watch on my Directv NBA League pass!

LEBRON CHOOSES TO JOIN WADE, BOSH WITH MIAMI HEAT

LeBron James wanted to play with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. The only place that could happen was Miami.

Get ready, NBA: A superstar trio is born.

Ending weeks of silence and drama, the two-time MVP said on his ESPN special from Greenwich, Conn. on Thursday night that he's decided to join the Miami Heat and leave the Cleveland Cavaliers after an unsuccessful seven-year quest for the championship he covets.

"I can't say it was always in my plans, because I never thought it was possible," James said. "But the things that the Miami Heat franchise have done, to free up cap space and be able to put themselves in a position this summer to have all three of us, it was hard to turn down. Those are two great players, two of the greatest players that we have in this game today."

Olympic teammates in Beijing, James, Bosh and Wade all helped deliver gold medals.

This time, it'll be about a gold trophy, the NBA championship one -- the one Wade got in 2006, the one that James and Bosh have yet to touch.

"Winning is a huge thing for me," James said.

It's a huge victory for the Heat, who got commitments from Wade and Bosh on Wednesday. That duo, along with James, formed the upper echelon of the most-celebrated free-agent period in league history.

Heat president Pat Riley landed them all, a three-pack of stars to help shape his quest for a dynasty in Miami.

And for Cleveland, a city scorned for generations by some of sports' biggest letdowns, James' long-awaited words represented a defeat perhaps unlike any other.

James is gone. Home sweet home no more.

He said he made the decision Thursday morning and knows it won't go over well in Ohio.

"They can have mixed emotions, of course," James said, adding that Akron will "always be home for me."

His new home -- part-time or otherwise -- wasted no time in beginning the celebration. Horns honked outside the arena and on Miami Beach, where Wade was watching the announcement with members of his inner circle.

"It's going to be crazy," Wade said.

James, Bosh and Wade entered the pros in the same year, the respective Nos. 1, 4 and 5 picks in the 2003 draft. They went their separate ways: James to Cleveland, Bosh to Toronto and Wade to Miami, where he won a championship partnered with centre Shaquille O'Neal in 2006. That year, James, Bosh and Wade all signed matching contracts to make sure they were all unrestricted free agents at the same time.

Season-ticket sales for the Heat's coming 41-game season were suspended Thursday afternoon after the entire supply of available seats were sold out. Not every seat has been released for sale yet and some will be held back for single-game purchases at the 19,600-capacity arena.

"I'll believe it when I see it," Louisville coach Rick Pitino said while attending a tournament of high school stars at Cleveland State University, co-sponsored by James and Nike, one of the 25-year-old's corporate partners.

Believe it.

The Cavaliers, a franchise that was in ruins before winning a lottery drawing and bringing James up Interstate 77 from his Akron home, have had the upper hand -- until now. They were able to offer him more money -- US$30 million more -- than any other team.

This wasn't about money, though.

Wade and Bosh both said they would take fewer dollars to make this happen. And that, combined with what Riley and Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said to James on the recruiting tour, was enough to pull off the stunner.

Because they have overspent while trying to please James and win the first title by any of Cleveland's three pro sports teams since 1964, the Cavs are strapped with a few big contracts that have eaten up salary-cap space and prevented them from making roster moves to improve the team.

They've come close to winning it all with James, who at six foot eight and 260 pounds has the quickness of a point guard and brute force of an NFL defensive lineman.

With the possible exception of Los Angeles Lakers superstar Kobe Bryant, James is the NBA's premier player, but his legacy cannot be fulfilled until he wins a championship.

Lebron makes right decision

http://simplysports.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=opinion&thread=36&page=1

Shaq never "won a ring for the King"... maybe he should return to South Beach for the minimum and bring some needed size down low to get his fifth.

Can't believe these guys actually all ended up on the same team!!  I don't blame any of them either, particularly Bosh & Bron, both gave it their all for 7 years and used free agency for what they wanted.  If either the Raps or Cavs presented a more appealing scenario, these guys would have stayed.  As it stands, they chose less money and a chance to play together, they worked hard just for the opportunity.  Bring on the regular season, want to see these guys in action!

You won't need DirecTV NBA League Pass to watch their games. Pretty much every Heat game will now be on national television.

And how can you blame Cleveland? They always did the best they could to make Lebron happy, to try to put players around him to help him succeed. You're right, they didn't get Amare last year, but they still made moves; they brought in Jamison, who is a good player. Cleveland always made an effort to please Lebron; they did what they could.

But it wouldn't have mattered, because Lebron has no heart, no loyalty. Instead of rising to the challenge of bringing a championship to his hometeam, he's shrinking from the pressure, taking the easy way out. Bodhi's right, he can never be compared to the greatest players of all time. I mean, the guy's yet to win anything anyway, so the Jordan comparisons were already ludicrous, but now they've become even more so.

The Miami move makes the least amount of sense. If he wanted to remain loyal, fulfill his promise of winning a championship for the state that loves him most, he would've stayed in Cleveland; instead, he's killed that franchise and spat in their face. If he wanted to guarantee himself championships, he should've gone to Chicago, where he still would've been the clear-cut number one guy, the best player on the team, but he would've also had a great supporting cast around him with Boozer, Noah and Rose. NY even makes sense because Lebron cares so much about his "brand" and in NY he could've taken that to all-new heights, playing in the biggest city and in the most famous arena, and resurrected a dead franchise with a big fanbase.

I know it sounds great on paper to have Lebron, Wade and Bosh, but no matter how great those players are, they need other players around them--- and I just don't see many players that are any good being willing to play for a minimum salary. The big three in Boston worked because all three guys were reaching the end of their careers, all in their 30's, all without a championship. And they complemented each other well because each player has their own unique skill set. But Lebron and Wade are very similar players, both need the ball in their hands. Personally, I think it will turn out to be a disaster. Anything less than multiple championships is a failure, and as good of friends as Wade and Lebron may be now, I think all kinds of problems will arise in the locker room, especially if they struggle. And if they win, how will Wade feel about Lebron getting all the glory when it's Wade's team, when Wade's already won that city a championship, when Wade is the guy who orchestrated this whole thing . . . ?

And by handling this whole situation the way he did, Lebron has made a lot of people hate him. He's turned himself into a villain.

burn it like all of Ohio.


I cannot wait to see The Big 3 vs. Cavs this upcoming season in Cleveland, it's going to be a riot.

Don't even know what to say about this:

Dear Cleveland, All Of Northeast Ohio and Cleveland Cavaliers Supporters Wherever You May Be Tonight;

As you now know, our former hero, who grew up in the very region that he deserted this evening, is no longer a Cleveland Cavalier.

This was announced with a several day, narcissistic, self-promotional build-up culminating with a national TV special of his "decision" unlike anything ever "witnessed" in the history of sports and probably the history of entertainment.

Clearly, this is bitterly disappointing to all of us.

The good news is that the ownership team and the rest of the hard-working, loyal, and driven staff over here at your hometown Cavaliers have not betrayed you nor NEVER will betray you.

There is so much more to tell you about the events of the recent past and our more than exciting future. Over the next several days and weeks, we will be communicating much of that to you.

You simply don't deserve this kind of cowardly betrayal.

You have given so much and deserve so much more.

In the meantime, I want to make one statement to you tonight:

"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER ?KING' WINS ONE"

You can take it to the bank.

If you thought we were motivated before tonight to bring the hardware to Cleveland, I can tell you that this shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.

Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.

Sorry, but that's simply not how it works.

This shocking act of disloyalty from our home grown "chosen one" sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn.  And "who" we would want them to grow-up to become.

But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called "curse" on Cleveland, Ohio.

The self-declared former "King" will be taking the "curse" with him down south. And until he does "right" by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma.

Just watch.

Sleep well, Cleveland.

Tomorrow is a new and much brighter day....

I PROMISE you that our energy, focus, capital, knowledge and experience will be directed at one thing and one thing only:

DELIVERING YOU the championship you have long deserved and is long overdue....

Dan Gilbert

Majority Owner

Cleveland Cavaliers

What a joke this owner is

He sounds like he was blowing Lebron or something. What a bitch. Get the fuck over it. u surrounded Lebron with shit, used him to make hundreds of millions of dollars... now fuck off.

i have a feeling ill be cavs vs heat in the first game of the season  :rofl:

He didn't exactly surround him with "shit" in Cleveland.  I agree their roster was far from imposing 2-12, BUT, they did/do have some good role players and Mo Williams was an all star when they acquired him.  Antawn Jamison was a coveted guy around the trade deadline last year.  Kobe Bryant would have embraced the challenge and taken that team further, if not all the way.  Lebron has chosen the easy way out.  I can't blame him.  I didn't think he'd return to Cleveland because it was low on the list as far as winning goes.  I would've respected him more though if he went to Chicago or even NY. 

It's strange.  I mean, on the one side it seems like a feel good story.  Wade, James, and Bosh are all boys and are all driven to win.  They could've made more money elsewhere.  But for some reason, this just doesn't seem right.  Maybe it's because James is leaving his hometown.  I wonder if he'd have the same backlash if he had played his first 7 years with the Sacramento Kings or some other team.  This is what the NBA has turned into though I guess.  And I feel a little hypocritical because the Celtics drew up the blueprint for this.  But that was different, like gilee pointed out.  3 guys who were nearing the end of the line who were desperate to win.  And at least they did it through trades and gave up something of value to get both KG and Allen.  Miami just BOUGHT Bosh and Wade.  It just doesn't seem right.

And if I have to hear one more time about "how much each of these guys sacrificed".  Give me a break!  It's not like they agreed to play for the league minimum or anything.  Terms haven't been disclosed yet, but I'm sure they'll all be making upwards of 100 million dollars over the length of their deals.  I only wish I could make a sacrifice like that.

The same Kobe Bryant who shot 6-24 in game 7?

Kobe has a STACKED TEAM

would u trade Ron Artest for anybody on Cleveland? NO
Would u trade Pau Gasol for anybody on Cleveland? NO
Would u trade Lamar Odom for anybody on Cleveland? NO
Would u trade Andrew Bynum for anybody on Cleveland? NO

so lets cut the bullshit here. Kobe has MAJOR help. How did Kobe do before they stole Pau Gasol? 1st rd exits.



U will see dude. If Kobe missed the entire season. LA still win 45 games and either make 8th seed or narrowly miss the playoffs.

Wait till u see Cleveland next season without Lebron. they will go from 66 wins down to probably 20.

there is your difference.



Miami sent Michael Beasley to Minnesota in a salary dump for a 2nd rd pick

Miami signed Mike Miller and there are talks of Shaq coming back to Miami.

i  kinda hoped that it would be the knicks..  it'll be interresting to see the heat this season, i think miami have retired #23 for jordan what number will he pick?

I never said Kobe didn't have major help or a good supporting cast.  I just said he'd do more with that Cleveland squad than Lebron did because he is clearly a better player and leader.  I don't think it's even close.  And I HATE Kobe.  But he's the best player in the NBA, hands down.

I know the playoffs are a different animal, but Lebron's cast was good enough to compile the best record in the NBA for 2 years straight and he couldn't even lead his team to the finals.  This year getting knocked out in the 2nd round. 

Lebron changed his number to 6 a few years back out of respect to Jordan, saying the number should be retired across the NBA.  I think Mario Chalmers has #6 right now, but I think he'll gladly give it to Lebron for a monetary value.

LeBron is a bitch. he's more concerned with becoming a global brand than the best player in the NBA.

i don't fault him for leaving - that's his right. but show some class for your hometown fanbase that supported you for years.

I love that the Cleveland owner called him out on his BS. because it is true....lebron QUIT on his team during PLAYOFF games!

Faldor - i agree. Kobe is so far greater than LeBron. and i too HATE kobe. over the last 2-3 years i cheered for Cleveland and wanted to see LeBron take over as the greatest and bring a title to Cleveland (in large part because of my hate for kobe). but in a couple of the very limited number of NBA games i have actually watched in recent years, i saw lebron quit on his team more than once.

luckily i forgot about this last night and i just watched the phillies game, cause i know my curiosity would have gotten the best of me. all of this is just another reminder for me why i do not follow the NBA closely.   

Personally, I think the Cavs are still a possible playoff team even without James. The Magic, Celtics, Heat, and Bulls are probably at the top, followed by the Hawks and Bucks. But I think the Cavs will still push for a playoff spot; they're kinda there with the Bobcats as a 7th, 8th seed.

D, you act like the Cavs are a horrible team. Like Faldor said, Mo Williams was an all-star, a very solid PG. Jamison's best days are behind him, but he's still a very good player. Hickson is a promising young player. Varajeo is one of the best defenders and hustle guys in the league, somewhat similar to Joakim Noah. They have a solid bench. They'll push for a playoff spot.

It will be interesting to see how Cleveland does without Lebron.  I wouldn't be shocked if they were awful and went straight to being a lottery team.  But, I do think they do still have some decent players like gilee pointed out and certainly wouldn't be surprised if they were contending for a playoff spot.  Maybe face the Heat in the first round of the playoffs.  I would absolutely LOVE it if the Cavs signed someone or made some moves to improve the team and ended up winning a championship before Lebron.  But I don't see that happening.

Lebron went from a hero to a villain last night in mostly every NBA city except for one.  He will get booed heavily in not just Cleveland, but NY, Boston, LA, Chicago, NJ, etc., etc.  It will be interesting to see how he reacts, as he's never faced that type of adversity and hatred towards him.

u guys are spitting some major erroneous shit in this thread.

Answer this question with honesty and no bias


what happens when Lebron shoots 6-24 in a game or similar?

U get game 5 against Bos where they lost by almost 30


What happens when Kobe shoots 6-24?

Oh shit, u win an NBA championship.

Just check the stats. 2 years ago Lebron avg damn near 40pts 8rebs and 8 assists a game in the playoffs!

WHY? cause he has to. He has to go for 30-8-8 just for Cleveland to win.

Kobe appears to be the better player because he has more HELP

U put Lebron on LA, they still win those titles. Kobe is a better clutch player, but overall basketball talent, Lebron is still right there with Kobe..Kobe isn't WAY better. Kobe is a better pure scorer,defender,leader  but Lebron is a better rebounder, slasher,passer etc

Mo Williams SUCKS in the postseason, did u not see his stats this past postseason? Anderson is ok but once again, he will get some rebs,play some defense but he isn't a "STAR" JJ Hickson didn't even play this past postseason... Antawn Jamison SUCKS. I watched him in Dallas, Wash... he can score but does nothing else, he can't REB or play D.

Lets don't forget how Kobe quit on LA against Phoenix....


If Lebron quit on Cle.. i'd hate to see what he'd do if he didn't quit... a guy average 30-8-8.... wow the Cle. owner is a joke.

Has Lebron ever had a Shaq?   Does he have a Gasol or Artest or even a Lamar Odom? NO he doesn't

NBA, u have to have a TEAM to win  a title. Lebron clearly has a good regular season team, but the playoffs are a different beast.

Yeah, Kobe had a bad SHOOTING night, and he knew it, so he focused on other aspects of his game, and they WON. LeBron had one of his  "7 bad games of his career" and he gave up. He didnt try. We all watched it happen. He had a bad game, and followed it up by quitting on a team he knew he was leaving.  He quit because he knew he couldnt win. He knew he couldnt win, so he is now running to his long pre-orchestrated joke of a superteam.  Look at the games the Lakers lost to Boston in the Finals.  Kobe didnt quit until the horn sounded. Thats why he's greater than LeBron.  The difference between the two is night and day.  Kobe wouldnt want to join Wade, he'd want to beat him.

Even if people hate Kobe, they still respect the guy. Not very many people are going to respect Lebron anymore.

I've never cared much for Lebron anyway, mainly just because of all the unjust praise people heaped on him, labeling him the best player on the planet and already trying to compare him to Jordan, which is ridiculous. I said in this very thread after the Bos-Cle series that Lebron quit on his team. He showed no passion, no heart; the last few minutes of game 6, instead of hustling, trying to create TOs, force Boston to make free throws, etc., he just stood around, so the rest of the team just stood around. They just gave up. And throughout the whole series Lebron had such a non-chalant attitude, basically just shrugging his shoulders after every loss and acting like it was no big deal. That was when I lost all respect for the guy. And then with the way this whole free agency was handled, going back to two years ago or so when Lebron was already hyping it up and dropping hints, to the primetime special, it was just incredibly distasteful and egotistical.

You can't even compare Kobe and Lebron. Kobe actually wants to go down as one of the greatest players of all time. Lebron is running from it. LeBitch always falters in the playoffs and at the end of big games; and instead of trying to rise to the challenge, he's painted himself as a coward. He can't lead a team to the promised land; he has to be led. Wade can now take all the shots at the buzzer. Wade and Bosh can now share in the blame if he doesn't win a championship. As everyone has said, LeBitch has taken the easy way out.

no no, people will respect him when he wins a title just like Kobe.

Kobe fucking QUIT against Phoenix.. he took like 1 shot in game 7 2nd half.  Lebron quitting down 30 isn't quitting. that is acknowledging the game is in the refrigerator


That Bos game is overblown.. weren't they down like 8-10 with 30 seconds to go... fouling was pointless.

Everyone keeps overlooking the fact that Kobe has an amazing team and Lebron does not.

Lebron had a triple double in one of those Boston games but everyone just talked about his poor shooting performance...

can't go both ways on it. When Kobe sucks, u had Pau and then Ron Artest in games 6-7 step up and play huge. When Lebron struggled, NOBODY stepped up and did anything.

U are gonna compare Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison to Pau Gasol and Ron Artest?

that there proves my point.

What makes me laugh is how u guys say Kobe would've carried Cle further..   lets see, Lebron lost to Boston in 6 games, Kobe barely beat Bos with the much better stacked team of his and if Kendrick Perkins doesn't get injured.. who knows!?


The whole argument discounts teammates,head coach etc. U guys act like it doesn't matter and it does matter. Teams win championships, not one player.

Also the thing with D Wade is, he has done way less than Lebron since winning the title. so really it isn't like Lebron is piggybacking another superstar. When Kobe won 3 rings, he did it playing with the number 1 guy in the league.

so how is Lebron and Wade teaming up any different than Shaq and Kobe?

Shaq didnt "team up" with Kobe. That team was built. 
    And the Phoenix  game you love to bring up when talking about Kobe is COMPLETELY different. And irrelevant.  LeBron was on the best team, record wise, in the league. In a much more important game. His team was FAVORED to win the series. Hell, his team was FAVORED to win the title. And  following one of his "3 bad games in his career" I mis-spoke earlier, I said 7,  LeBron quit on his team.   

Lebron and the Cavs have been favored to win the title the last 2 years and they haven't come close.  If you're able to get homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs, you shouldn't be too far away from being able to win a championship.  A few tweaks here and there and who knows what could've happened.  But Lebron has taken the easy way out and is joining a proven winner in Wade.  I hope Miami doesn't win, but the odds are they will win at least a few titles.  Lebron may not even be the best player on his team right now, forget about best player in the league.

Wait, Shaq didn't sign with LA as a Free Agent?

So a guy quitting just because he isn't a favorite is ok, but a guy averaging almost a triple double and not fouling at the end of a lost game isn't?

Shaq signed with LA as a free agent yeah. And they built a team with him.  What LeBron is doing, would be the equivalent of Shaq, back then, signing with the Jordan Bulls and bringing Reggie Miller with him, just so he can get his ring. 
   Also, LeBron did more than just not foul at the end of the game. Which, by the way, you should still TRY. There was time. You always have to try in a do or die play-off game.  He tanked in game 5, and was disinterested in playing in game 6.

well Lebron signed as a FA with D Wade and they will have to build a team also. Those 3 guys aren't showing up by themselves and winning every game unless a team is put around them.

People are listening to the media bash and piling on. Lebron did nothing different than what Shaq did. He wants to win, Cle doesn't offer a viable long term winning enviroment.

He took less money so he could win titles. I respect that.

Shaq came to LA to win, yeah.  Shaq did not devise a plan to create a "super-team" because he couldnt win.  And Shaq also left Orlando with tact. 

Lebron made it a circus. Long term winning environment?  LeBron left a team that had the best record two years in a row.

Shaq's Orlando team weren't great? Did they not go to the finals in 1995 and get swept?

So Shaq admitted he couldn't win, so he came to LA....


whats the difference?

Like i said earlier, Miami have been terrible the last 3 seasons, so lets don't act like LBJ is joining a championship team.

If Miami win a title, it will be because of Lebron James just as much as the other two.

If u want to look at it on paper right now:

Kobe and Lebron u can give advantage slightly to Kobe
Ill take Pau Gasol over Chris Bosh
that leaves Wade... but Odom,Bynum and Artest are greater than 1 D Wade.

I think its bullshit how if Lebron wins a title, somehow it will be less or tainted

Does Derrick Jeter get tainted cause he has 5 rings with a team who has the highest payroll by far and tons of future HOF'ers?

The problem is, like crow said, the way Lebron has handled this whole situation has turned people against him.  I never expected him to go back to Cleveland and would've had no problem if he "left" for another team like a normal human being.  But the minute I heard he scheduled a prime time event to make his decision, I knew I was going to hate it regardless unless it was to stay in Cleveland.  And then during the interview saying that none of the teams knew except the one he chose, which he told just before the interview.  It was just shady all around. 

And tonight didn't help matters.  The 3 of them in uniform being introduced in the arena with the PA announcer, smoke show and all.  And the coup de grace, the signing of their contracts was SPONSORED by Office Max and Sharpie.

Now I know that stuff isn't Lebron's fault per se, but the situation is just beyond ridiculous.  Lebron has made this whole situation about him.  I guess that's just the sign of the times and that's what the modern day star is these days and for years to come.  Is Carmello Anthony going to do the same thing next year?  I hope not.  Once is enough.

Speakingof Carmelo, if he turns down their 3 year extension, Denver better trade him ASAP

only thing worse than losing LBJ was the fact Cleveland lost him for nothing.

Cleveland received a 16MM trade exception, two future first round, & a second round pick for their "sign & trade" of Lebron.

Quietly Chicago is looking pretty good.  They've signed Boozer and now picked up Korver.

As a Laker fan, I'm thrilled all the high profile FAs are leaving the Western Conference.

Fuck u Mark Cuban

Used our very valuable DUST chip on Tyson Chandler?

GTFO

Poor Dirk, he should've left and went to Chicago or something.

Pathetic.

when i noticed that you had posted in this thread, i thought your post was going to say "My Dallas Mavericks just got dangerous again" lol

I am pissed.. Chandler is an upgrade over Damp and he and Haywood are a pretty decent 1-2 punch in the middle but Jesus, that 13 million non guarantee contract was our ticket to get a superstar to pair with Dirk.............

I do hear we may get Al Harrington, that def makes us a top 3 team in the West u would think, especially if Roddy Beaubois keeps developing.

Iverson to Miami?

By Antwan Brown (Correspondent) on July 9, 2010

On July 8,2010 LeBron James shook the entire sports world by announcing he will sign with the Miami Heat to form the super team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. This decision could be risky as good as it looks on paper I find it hard to believe how 3 superstars will mesh together in their prime, will they be willing to sacrifice their career stats?  Now there is a rumor flowing around that Allen Iverson maybe the next member to join the super team in Miami.

This move would make sense because Iverson is looking for a title and would be able to start on the Heat and the Heat are looking for good players that would take the minimum because they don't have a lot of money and Iverson is coming for a very cheap price right now.

Last season the Heat were worried Iverson would take control of this team and rub the young players the wrong way but Iverson is no dummy his career was on the line in Philadelphia last season and he didn't cause any problems so why would he even think about screwing around with a team that could potentially go down as one of the greatest dynasties in the history of sports.

Aston Kutcher posted the following on his twitter after hearing about LeBron's decision: ?just heard AI is talking to MIA.?

This is a rumor that has been going around for quite some time now and there is a high chance it could happened. Bosh, Wade and LeBron all have respect for Iverson and Iverson has respect for them. Even though Iverson has accomplished more throughout his career then those guys he knows that at this stage they are all better players then him and would have no problem taking a back seat to them. With this kind of roster Mario Chalmers starting at the point just doesn't seem right so it would make much more sense to get one of the greatest players of all time to run the point for the best roster in the league.

Things will start to heat up in the next couple of days but don't be surprised if Allen Iverson is the next member to super team. Pat Riley has always liked Iverson and this could be the best fit for him at this stage of his career. It would be nice to see Iverson close his career out with possibly a ring or at least playing respectable basketball. Things are really starting to heat up in Miami it's going to be an interesting off-season and it may just start with the "Answer" being the next member to the super team.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/417663-could-allen-iverson-join-the-super-team-in-miami (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/417663-could-allen-iverson-join-the-super-team-in-miami)

I saw the ESPN 30 for 30 on the Allen Iverson trial from back when he was in high school a few days back.  It was interesting and well done.  Actually made me feel for the guy a bit and hopeful he could turn his life around AGAIN.  He really was a great player in his prime.  Those Sixers teams he was on were not very good, yet he led them to the finals.  Of course the East overall wasn't very good in those days.  After watching 30 for 30 though, you see where he came from and it kind of explains the person he is.  Puts things in perspective.

It really was an eye-opening documentary. I had never seen alot of footage from Iverson's football days - dude was quite the athlete.

Shaq to the Celtics.

Iverson and McGrady to follow?

Bring on the first game of the season!  Celtics Vs. Heat

Celts/Heat is great don't get me wrong, but C'mon Heat vs Lakers would've been the game.

Although I'm not 100% sure on this, I think every team's first match of the season is against a team from the same conference.

Lakers Vs Heat will be played on Christmas day.

anyone interested in a fantasy league

draft is Sunday Night at 9pm

I got 6 spots to fill

League ID:5194
Password: dirk

yahoo.com

Is that the league I signed up for?  Draft on Sunday?  Don't know how draft ready I'll be after spending the day drinking and eating my face off at the Pats game.

I signed up originally, but then noticed the draft time, which I won't be able to make.

aww Gilee, u shoulda said something , i could've switched it.

Good draft last night. I am heavy on Big men.


Wish i would've grabbed another PG but right as i was clicking on Andre Miller my time expired and i got Roy Hibbert... FUCK!