Here Today... Gone To Hell!

We all posted our reviews when it first came out, now we have all had plenty of time to digest it. So post your reviews as of today:

1. Chinese Democracy - great intro, good way to start off the album. IMO it is one of the weaker songs on the album, but it is still pretty rugged and mean. The lyrics are strong, vocals are filled with venom, quality solo, quality rocking song but not the best. 7.5 of 10

2. Shackler's Revenge - love this track. Serious grower, one of the catchiest and most fun songs on the album. The pre-chorus and chorus are sweet, Ron's solo is off the wall but fits the song. Best part: the rhythm section during the solo. The tribal drums, chanting and beastly guitars are really cool. People complained about the lack of "fun" rocking songs on the album this is one. The lyrics are definitely the opposite of fun but it is certainly fun to listen to. Good song. 8 out of 10

3. Better - one of the defining songs of the album. One of the songs that almost justifies the length of time the album took. The arrangements and driving force of the main riff are fucking great on this song. No dead air. There are so many great "small" moments such as the guitar fill at 1:21. Such a strong groove and the vocal melodies are some of the best Axl has ever composed. Vocals are perfect and the lyrics, in the context of a "poppy" rock love song, are excellent. If you don't admire the vocal performance on this one then you quite simply were never really a GNR fan. 9.5 out of 10

4. Street of Dreams - a personal favorite since I first heard it. While I preferred the whistling synths of the 2002 version to the strings of the final version, the guitarwork is the best of any version. Again, vocal performance is out of this world and it definitely has some great love song lyrics. Beautiful piano work by Dizzy throughout as well. 9.5 out of 10

5. If The World - great groove, a lot of fun. The "worst" lyrics of any song on the album, but their simplicity kind of matches the almost reggae like vibe of the song. Bucket really dominates this one with his Spanish guitar and Joe Perry-esque solo. Cool stuff. 8 out of 10

6. There Was A Time - was my favorite song on the album for a while. Still top 3. Quality, emotion filled lyrics, brilliant arrangements, the vocals in the final 4 minutes are superb. The "chorus" on the final version dwarfs the previous versions. Robin and Bucket just tear it up in the final 4 minutes or so, Buckethead's outro solo has become one of my favorite rock solos ever, never gets old, awesome stuff. 10 out of 10

7. Catcher In The Rye - not one of my favorite demos, but the final version has become a favorite. Quite possibly the best lyrics on the album, and a nice change of pace in terms of subject matter. Ron's bouncy, bittersweet outro is one of the finest moments on the album, Axl's weathered vocals really fit the mood and theme of the song. 9.5 out of 10

8. Scraped - the intro is funny, Axl showing of his range in a somewhat goofy fashion that shows yes, they did have SOME fun making this album. A real sick riff, the back and forth vocals were a great touch and really fit the bipolar nature of the lyrics. Ron rips the solo, and holy shit the rhythm guitar once the solo kicks in is pretty damn cool. Fun song. 8 out of 10

9. Riad N' The Bedouins - this song is an absolute buzzsaw. Never understood why people didn't like it, the lyrics are abstract but they make sense if you listen closely, the bassline is the shit, Axl's vocals are insane on this song, the music on the hook is a burst of sonic awesomeness and the solo is pretty much from outerspace. Just a bad ass song across the boards. 9 out of 10

10. Sorry - really shows how Axl has advanced as a songwriter. Back in the day, his "fuck off" songs were in your face and full of energy and anger. This one is that much more effective because of how measured and calculated it sounds. It is even more effective because of how deliberate it is. His use of vocals is masterful; when his raspy vocals do kick in, they cut like a knife. The solo is beautiful, like something Gilmour would do. The chorus is the best chorus on the album hands down. Don't give a fuck, one of the best GNR songs new or old. 10 out of 10

11. IRS - polarizing song, to me it is awesome. Probably biased because after seeing them play it live, it was consistently one of the top 5 songs of the night. Final version kicks serious ass, but takes a while to get going which may turn people off. Love the part after the acoustic solo where it really kicks in and Axl starts his rant with "I bet you think I'm doing this all for my health," one of the most aggressive moments of any GNR song, the spite in his vocals is so strong you can sense it. Bucket's solo combined with the Axl scream is a definite album highlight. 8.5 out of 10

12. Madagascar - what can I say about this song? I like it, but it just doesn't do much for me. Good lyrics, thought it sounded better with the clean vocals in 2002. I understand what he is trying to do with his weathered voice, but it's just not one of my favorites. The best part, IMO, is the vocal collage and Bucket solo. Solid song, my views on it change depending on my move, but definitely my least favorite on the album. 7 out of 10.

13. This I Love - easily the most beautiful composition Axl has done aside from Estranged, quite possibly the best vocal performance he has ever laid down. Still not sure what to make of the lyrics. On one hand, their raw simplicity matches the nature of the emotions expressed which are some of the most basic and pure emotions people feel. On the other hand, they are not nearly as mature and impressive as some of his other stuff. Love Robin's solo, although the composition beneath it may be even better. 8.5 out of 10

14. Prostitute - this has become my favorite song on the album. Had mixed feelings at first but repeat listens sold me. The lyrics, while simple, are so dead on and honest that they are impossible to ignore. The vocals are superb. The underlying piano melody is so simple but has this lilting, graceful elegance that continually gets stuck in my head. To me this is the ultimate "Axl Rose" song. The way I interpret it, the first verse is directed at a lover, the second verse is related to the old band, and the final verse is directed towards fans/the general public. The song is not mean or spiteful in any way, simply a rebuttal in the face of massive criticism. Throughout the song he stands up for himself yet pleads for some understanding which is such a great contrast. The "what would you say if I told you that I'm to blame?" part after the second verse is my favorite part of the album. In 3 lines, Axl kind of sums up why he carried on like he did. To me this song is not about right or wrong but about standing up for yourself and doing what you believe is right, regardless of consequences, and that is what Axl is all about. If he never wrote or released another song, no song would be more fitting of being the final track on his final album than this one. 10 out of 10

Overall: Chinese is exactly what I was hoping for. Huge Axl fan, so of course I am "biased," but who isn't for their favorite musicians? When I heard the initial descriptions of the album, songs like Better, SoD, TWAT, Riad and Prostitute were basically what I was hoping for. This album represents something that has been missing from the rock scene for too long: big guitars, big solos, big vocals, big scope, straight face. Album is both fun and serious, you can sing along to it or listen and brood. The versatility and general impressiveness of the instrumentals and vocals just make it much more interesting and entertaining to me than the type of stuff that usually comes out these days. Rating based on song by song average: 8.8 out of 10

I read all of that. Nice thoughts. This album has filled a void in me. I am so thankful for it. Anyway, cool man.

Thanks.  The album has been sort of a validation for me, after all the years waiting it didn't disappoint.  And my friends, who aside from a few are not big GNR fans, have (grudgingly in some cases) admitted to the fact that it is a very good album and way better than they thought it could be

In This Moment... For Me:

- The Best Disc Of Guns N' Roses -

 :smoking:

Agree with most of what you said on a song by song basis with a few exceptions.  Personally, I think "Scraped" and "I.R.S." are the best "pure" rockers are on the album, and would put them ahead of "Riad".  "Madagascar" to me is and has always been exceptional to me.  The haunting chord progression that opens the song and stays throughout utilizing a synthesized french horn sound is a stroke of genius.  Axl's melodies and lyrics are amazing and I love that the whirling tornado of harmonizing guitar lines.  "If The World" is the underrated gem on this album.  The gorgeous acoustic guitar work and the amazing electric solo by Bucket, the funky groove and Axl's out of this world melody lines make this a masterpiece for me.  It just floored me when I first heard it.  Like nothing I've ever heard before and just fantastic.

Ali

Hasnt left my CD player in the car since released. Love it

Thanks Uncle Axl - it's a ripper

still incredible IMO. i listen to it regularly.

my appreciation for TIL has grown. it might even be my favorite song. i used to think the solo was just ok, maybe a little too rough (it actually hurts my ears sometimes when i have it really cranked in my car). but it fits the mood of the song.

TWAT, Sorry, TIL, Scraped...all awesome songs among the best gnr material ever.

and songs like IRS, CITR, SR, Better, and CD are classics as well.

i like the rest too, they just happen to fall near the bottom of a collection of really great songs.

i still can't mark the songs..if i do prolly i give them 10~12 out of 10.

My Friends In Chile... Super Critics Whit GNR Ever:

- Fan Of Iron Maiden: SORRY Is AMAZING, Lirics & Music

- Fan Of Pink Floyd: Well, Well, Well... mmmmm... ChinDem. Is Good Disc... But PROSTITUTE Is SPECTACULAR !!

- Fan Of Judas Priest (My Friend Hate GNR :hihi:). It's GOOD Disc... Motherfuckers... Shut Up !! (Dedicate To Me  :hihi:)

- Fans Of Hip Hop: BETTER, The Best Song, Drum/Beat Of HH Is Kick Ass & Voice of AXL And Solos Guitar, Excelent.

My Friends Have Age Promedy 27 Or 37 Years, Very Critics...

The people In Chile Of 14 Or 26 years Says What ChinDem. Is Excelent Disc Of GNR. Loved SOD, TIL, COmparassion Whit NR, patience, Don't Cry, Blah, Blah.

Chile  :love: GUNS N' ROSES !!

 :beer:

This disc, Chinese Democracy. It is my favorite Guns N' Roses album, and I am old school. It hasn't left my car player either. It is crazy how much I love the music. Everything, all of it. Axl, in my eyes doesn't have to do anything else, and anything he gives us from this moment on is just gravy.


I will probably want this music playing, along with the Beatles, in my last moments in this time. This is among my favorite albums of all time. Believe it.

Idem.

I look Guns N' Roses In 1992 In Santiago Of Chile, For Me The Best Era Is : 2000 2009.

- GNR In 1988 - 1993: Good Era, Golden, But, Much Posers, Girls Bitch Crazy, Band Of Fashion

In Chile Says In 1992: GUNS N' POSERS 

:hihi:


All Days Listen Chinese... COMPLETE.

 :smoking:

It is a great album.  I enjoy it even more than the day it came out.  That is the sign of a great album in my opinion, one that doesnt get old fast. 

in my op too. some of the songs ie cd riad the blues Madagascar are even known for years and still sound fresh now.

That's what she said.

Still a great album to my ears.  I wish that I hadn't heard the leaks before hearing the album, but that's my fault of course (the only "new" tracks for me were Scraped, Sorry, and This I Love).  I guess the only track that hasn't really grown on me since it's release has been IRS.  I'm still at a loss when I hear that song.  "I'm gonna call the IRS/gonna get the FBI," ummm...ok?  Maybe if Axl explained the metaphor I wouldn't still find those lyrics moronic.   

great review..great album

Still not tired of it.


There's not many albums I've listened to for about nine months without putting them aside for a while....

Chinese Democracy is one of them.



/jarmo

Dude you better take that back about If The World! Right the fuck now! The song fucking rules. It still remains my goto when lit. It is trippy as all hell. How dare you Andrew.


... how fucking dare you.

in big agreement with you here Jamro Chinese Democracy hasn't goten old at all to me sometimes it just sounds Better :smoking:

I still can't understand how someone doesn't like Riad...

ANyways, I've been listening to a lot of Queen. Not just the big ballads, the rockers too. And I can totally listen a lot from where Chinese Democracy came from... Just listen to the intros and guitar riffs...

In fact, it makes me want to listen even more of Chinese. :)

I haven't played the whole disc in months. 

Sorry was my early favorite, but to me If The World now holds that title.  Last night Better came on the ipod... Axl's voice during the verse is so awesome and Bucket's solos melt my face every time on that song. 

My 3 favorite tunes from Album... If the World, Better, Chinese Democracy. 

Songs like Scrapped and Shacklers have fallen by the way side for me and are the closest thing to filler on the album.

Cather in the Rye pulled the biggest come back for me.  I didn't like the song at first. 

Its a good album with some awesome musicianship.

I didn't like Riad at first because of the "AAAAAaaaaaaaaah"s lol

But after a while, the chorus got stuck in my head. Oh and it also has my favourite bbf solo of the album.

I was just thinking about that the other day. I've listened to at least some of this album if not all every day since release and it's showing no sign of wearing off on me anytime soon.

Well played GN'R

I actually still listen to Appetite daily...

CD: Great build up/intro, love Ron's guitar during the verses, it def came a long way from earlier versions but I can't believe it was the first single... I knew this shit was doomed when I heard this was gonna be the first single: 7.5/10

Better: Intro is so ANNOYING, Robin's guitar makes my ears bleed on the intro and that falsetto just doesn't work for me. Other than that, very solid song, I think it could be the most overrated GNR song ever though. A straight rock version would be killer but those Chris Pittman Super Mario farts over the most kick ass guitar riff on the album just ruins it. 7.5/10

Shackler's Revenge: Love everything about this song. It is mean, brutal, has great music,lyrics,melodies and i love the demons marching from hell section during the solo 9/10

Street Of Dreams: At RIR III, that version I give a 10/10 Axl's vocal in the intro is some of the greatest shit I've ever heard. Here though on SOD, the song just isn't as good. Axl's raspy intro sounds awful. It drags, Axl's voice isn't as good and something feels missing. RIRIII 10/10 CD version 7/10

If the World: one of my favorites on the album, should've been a single. just so different but awesome as hell. The classical.flamenco type guitars from Bucket are awesome, great vocal etc 9/10

There Was A Time: Horrible lyrics but the music,melodies make up for probably the worst lyrics Axl has written since Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring Axl's outro lyrics and emotion save it as does Bucket's genius 9/10

Catcher in the Rye: Demo was a 10 out of 10 and then here comes CD's clusterfuck version. First off, the intro is just horrible. that bass lick and the guitars just does not work. It sounds just horribly mixed. Ron is a super nice guy and does a great job on most of the album, but his guitar solos on Catcher just ruin the song for me. I can't even listen to it now just cause the mixing,music is so clusterfucked and bad. Demo 10/10 CD version 7/10

Scraped: Love it, don't mind the intro although I turn it down if people are around till the song kicks in. Great lyrics, melodies etc 8.5/10

Rhiad: I don't hate it, its only I can't relate to a word of it, so If I am working out, it gets u moving but I NEVER listen to this song 6/10

Sorry: Sounds like Seger's Turn The Page in a way, Love the emotion, some cringe worthy lyrics but I love the music,Bucket's solo is fabulous and the vocals are powerful 9/10

IRS:Hate it just a huge clusterfuck of epic proportions 4/10

Madagascar top 5 GNR song ever for me, love everything about this. I discovered this song back in 2001 when I was going through the worst 3 years of my life and this song resonated with me in a way that I can't being to explain 10/10

This I Love: I hate when people compare this to Estranged.... Estranged has so many changes and various musical parts and is truly a masterpiece. TIL is pretty much the same thing over and over and over with one of the worst guitar solos ever laid down on top of it.

Without the solo TIL is a 9/10 with the solo its a 6/10 so I give it an 8/10

Prostitute: once again, problem with this song is, it is the same thing over and over and over and over and over

I love GNR due to the diversity and how music changes in the songs and the songs have so many different moments and they fit together to become a great song. like Coma had no structure, Estranged changed tempo and riffs and feel so many times, NR has that awesome intro and outro etc etc
 Axl's vocals,emotion and lyrics save it though and i give it a 9.10

101.5/140=7/10

Same here I listen to almost all the albums daily just not in any order :beer:

Estranged never changed tempo; there are parts where they play half time, but in terms of tempo, it stays constant.

Cheers,

Andrew

Sorry Poor word choice, it just consistently changes musically but it all fits together perfectly. Doesn't feel like a bad cut and paste job.

haven't heard it once since december 2008. I will sure pick it up sometime in the future and get immersed in it again but so far this thing grew old very fast.

still I think it is a solid record, but I am disappointed in how my favorite songs (especially Catcher) were absolutely butchered in the final cut.

I went through phases with AFD and UYI's like that as well. I'm sure eventually I'll get that way with CD. Just let it be something I listen more often than other artists.

That's not bass, just Ron's clean guitar.

Really?

WOW, sounds very bass like

just horrible the guitar in Catcher. Absolutely ruins what was gonna be my favorite song.

... and if you hadn't heard the leaks, it would be amazing.





/jarmo

i like all the songs, i just wish the drums were a little louder, i can't really listen to all of the dinamics. UYI's drums were a lot more clear.
Riad seems like a sick song on the drums but most of it is blurred out but the guitars and synth... the drums and the bass should be louder for my taste.

funny thing is, the song i least liked when cd came out was If the World and now it's the one i listen the most.

Love it.  The disc is in, and has stayed in my computer since November, '08.  The album is framed and will stay hanging on my wall. 

I'm confused by the IRS-hate.  In my eyes it is fucking brilliant. 

Songs I can't stop listening to (in no particular order, depending on my mood):  Better, There Was a Time, Scraped, Sorry, IRS, Madagascar, This I Love, and Prostitute.


 

I'm not going to write another review of CD 9 months later. However, I will say that some of my favorites on the album are: If The World, Sorry, Chinese demo, TWAT, IRS, Better, Street of Dreams and Madagascar. This I Live is starting to grow on me since I can now relate to it better. D, I have to disagree with you about There was A Time. I thought the lyrics are good!

I love all the songs this album was to me like with AFD in that aspect  :peace:

IRS is the worst song in the album..

D - why do you think there was a time has horrible lyrics? i think they're pretty good, telling a story anyway.


I just listened again for the first time in a while and i still really love the album even though some of my favorites have changed and i appreciate songs like Catcher, Sorry, This I love more than i did at first.

I know it grows on you the more you listen to the songs

I liked IRS pretty much from the start so I'm right there with you.  It kicks ass live too.  I don't get the dislike for it either, sounds pretty rocking to me.

I hold Axl to a very high standard, so his horrible are still good, but compared to the rest of the album, I think that song has by far the worst lyrics:

He rhymes all with all like 4 times in a row........ and some of them just don't make a lot of sense to me..... I can't really relate to them until the outro.

The part about the devil hates a loser... I have no idea what that means.

I still love the song hence the 9/10 but if u were to open that song and read the lyrics, they don't do a lot for me.

Catcher's lyrics are absolutely brilliant, SOD, Shackler's, Scraped is very great lyrically



I don't like IRS, I mean the last half when Axl gets going is good, but musically that song just does nothing for me. A couple cool solos, but one thing that i've talked about with CD is the lack of riffs really.

There aren't any bonecrushing, headbanging guitar riffs at all on this album. CD is close but its more grungy than GNR and maybe they intentionally went for that, I don't know.

Better is a song I can't explain. Parts of it are really awesome, but I just immediately hit the next button when it comes on........I don't like how it turned out on the album.... I thought an earlier version was better when Bucket's guitar during the chorus was more syncopated and during the most rocking riff on the album, u got Pittman's fart noises that just kill the rock in it.

All in all, I like the album.  But...I expected more.  I guess this stems from my thinking of "since Axl destoyed what I loved, this is going to be revolutionary."  I feel that instead of being the leader of the pack and setting a standard for everyone else to follow, the album is too influenced by grunge, NIN, White Zombie, and Pop era U2.  Another negative is, as Jimmy Fallon said, it a new album of old songs.  I've heard SOD and CD since 01-01-01.

Faves:  Better, TWAT, CITR, Shackler's, Sorry, and IRS.

Next Best:  CD, SOD, Prositute, Rhiad, Scraped, If the World

so-so:  Madagascar

Should have been left off:  TIL (it's just not a good song and I have tried to like it.  GnR meets Broadway show tune)

TIL is my favourite off the album  :'(

The amount of guitars on that album makes it one of the most guitar oriented albums that has been released in quite some time.

And yet you can't find any "headbanging guitar riffs" on it?

Maybe you need to really listen....




/jarmo

i don't think i like headbanging or bonecrushing very much.  :P

 
see the end of dn for example. you'll get the idea.

I mean like WTTJ,Brownstone,My Michelle, Locomotive, Nightrain type riffs.

A lot of CD is piano oriented but not real riffy

Riad has a pretty cool Riff but its still different

I would call CD more power chord progression oriented but not really RIFFS

take like Death Magnetic for example. those are the types of riffs I am talking about.

CD really doesn't have any of those and it could be intentional and that is fine.

Also, take my review with a bit of salt cause I've already conceded the leaks ruined a lot of it for me.



If I had to choose one song to listen to forever I'd still take madagascar. That is a top 5 GNR song of all time for me.

Well, that is obviously the classic conception of how a rock album should be. For me, Chinese Democracy goes beyond that, I don't need any Locomotive type of song when I can get a Prostitute, a Sorry, a IRS, etc. Just because CD is richer and deeper doesn't mean it rocks less.

All the guitarwork in this album is brilliant, you have to listen to it without comparing the music to previous albums or styles because it'll hardly fit, it's completely new and advanced.

I agree with ya D.  There are a ton of guitars on this album, but I don't really consider it a "guitar driven" album.  I don't think there is a real dominant instrument on this album.  Everything seems to be distributed evenly, and it was mastered great.  A very different type of rock record.  It really is a sum of all its parts, one particular player doesn't carry the album.

...hence the name "Chinese Democracy!"   ;)

I don't mean that as a slight or saying it sucks. Just my observation is it is different and not really a guitar album but that is something I was hoping for on the album.



I don't think the guitar is advanced on the album, I think that is taking it kind of far. There aren't any "new" guitar techniques on it.

My only big problem with CD is Tommy's bass is nowhere to be found and if u have played Rockband 2, U know that Tommy has some AMAZING bass on this album but there are so many guitars etc, Tommy gets forgotten in the mix.

I would've loved to have heard Better as strictly a rock song and without all the keyboards etc.


All that said, I have no idea why Shackler's wasn't a single. I think they listened to the wrong people on that front. Shackler's is heavy,it rocks, great lyrics, great melodies, its catchy as fuck. Def the best rocker on the album IMO.

I believe Shackler's followed by Prostitute would've done better than CD/Better

I agree. The album is actually so guitar driven that there are lots of different layers that add to the songs and require you to really listen to the album to appreciate them.   It doesn't rely on basic blues scales, and riffs.   I like Slash, but this album is more than anything he could have done, just compare the guitar on this album to the guitar on Libertad  :hihi:  I also think that for Axl basically carrying this whole project he did a pretty great job.  I have had my ups and downs about it, but I think it is a good to very good record, overall. 

the only songs I would nitpick with would be:

Scraped: I wish they didnt cluster the song with Axls background vocals when he sings the lyrics that are in parentheses in the booklet. Kind of clogs the song. If you listen to the rockband stripped version Scraped has some bad ass bass and guitars and some weird but cool sounds that you cant completely hear on the album version.

I would also use a few less "ayo ayo's" throughout the song. And when they come into the first verse I would make the drum part much louder and angrier...that first pop right before "Sometimes I feel like...."

TWAT: The only thing I would probably change is that I would emphasize the intro of Broken Glass and Ciggs line. Make it more louder and echoey kind of like the demo...maybe sounding like if Axl is in some bathroom or tiled room. I would also prob change the part when Axl sings "it was a long time for you...for me etc"...make it more like how he sings it live...much harder/rougher/raspier.

As for the song in general, musically its one of GNRs best ever. Lyrically Im 50/50 on it. theres some cool lines in there but Idk, just seems like its missing something for such an amazing piece of music.

As for the controversial CITR:
I love the song but if I had to choose I would have to roll with the demo. Its just much more peaceful and fits the lyircs and song better. I cant explain the final version. It just sounds crowded and maybe a lil too fast paced??I enjoy both solos so Im not one that discredits the song because its not May. I actually dig Bfoots solo.

But the temp.mix, and overall feel of the song just seems a tad off...But its still an amazing song.

As for the others they are all great in their own way. I wouldnt change anything about the rest.

Its just an amazing album. The thought and hard work that was put into it translates into the overall feel of the album. While I can see how some may say the concept of the lyrics for the majoirty of the songs are a little repetitive but they should also take into account that this was all bottled up for so long and this is how Axl felt while making these songs.

I asked my cousin who is a casual fan and doesnt have a dog in the fight what he thinks of CD compared to the old stuff.. and he always tells me that if your looking for an album then CD is better than the Illusions and right up there with AFD but falls a little short if your looking for the hit singles like those albums had.

I guess on Catcher, Axl's vocals seem a little buried or something...

which is unfortunate cause its probably the best story song lyrically he has ever written.

Good lord!! Really?? I guess I need to check into this song again. It's one of my least favorite GN'R tunes ever. But that's some pretty damn high praise. I'll look into it again.

Loved the album when it first came out, now I consider most of it pretty boring.

Songs I still like:  If the world, this i love, prostitute, shackler's revenge

D, you are absolutely right.  There pretty much are no riffs.  A power chord progression isn't a real riff in my eyes, at least these are not.  Now "Smoke on the Water", now that is a riff with 4th Double Stop chords that works.  You don't have to have a kick ass riff for a good tune, but it sure does help.  What would Paradise City be with out the riffs there?  Jarmo, there are guitars on the album, but this isn't a "guitar album" per say.  The guitars never truly take center stage except during a solo or something.  There are some great solos on CD, but the riffs leave a lot to be desired......  That could be why there are so many damn things going on.. To fill the voids from the lack of riffs.

That's quite a narrow-minded conception you and D have.  There is no "void" from the lack of riffs because the songs weren't constructed around riffs.  That's not what a lot of these songs are about, or driven by.  There melody-driven songs filled with complex and layered arrangements.  This is not an old-school GN'R record and was never meant to be.

Ali

I would say what puzzles me is how someone who loves "Scraped" can say there are NO headbanging guitar riffs.  Granted this isn't on the whole a riff-driven record, but I would say that song is an exception.  That is the heaviest GN'R song ever.

Ali

P.S.  That Iommi-esque guitar riff during the chorus of "Sorry" also is heavy as hell in an old-school-Sabbath way.

I like to think of myself as one of the few authorities on grunge on this board, and I have never gotten a grungy feel on Chinese Democracy.

Some idiot reviewed the song CD after they played it at RIR 3 and slapped the grunge label on it because of Robin's tone. 

That isn't at all Ali, u guys are just not seeing or hearing what is right there

How many Pro Tool type intros are there in the place of where use to u would have a kick ass guitar intro? CD,SOD are really the only song that have an intro

 

With CD, its lets get to the vocal as quick as possible on most of the songs

If the World is the only song I can think of off the top of my head that has an awesome intro guitar riff and it is still classical/flamenco style and not heavy

Smoking Guns hit it on the head. Great guitar solos but there aren't any riffs like Iron Man,Crazy Train,Paranoid or AC/DC, Metallica, Old school GNR etc that u are kick ass and u can hum and are iconic sounding stuff.



This doesn't take away from the album but good, but one can't call it a guitar riff album.


Catcher with just piano,Axl and minimal guitar is an amazing piece of work. his piano fills toward the end that now get badly muffled under the guitar are some of the best shit he has ever done.

Lyrics tell a very good story IMO.

Scraped is the heaviest GNR song ever?

Do u own like one GNR album? possibly the most ludicrous thing I've read ever.

The main guitar riff is grunge just like Shackler's is nu metal

Nnnnnnnnnn-ah!

It's one of the heaviest sounding songs, for sure.

Out of the interest to respect the rules of this board, I'll refrain from using adjectives I feel properly describe your comment.

"Scraped" is one of the heaviest, as in most metal, as in no hint of blues-based rock and purely aggressive and metallic rock, GN'R songs ever.  Yes.  Listen to Priest and Maiden to see how their heavy sound is different from old school Guns.

Ali

No, it is it exactly and you just reinforced my point. You and Smoking Guns seem to have this narrow-minded conception that if the songs don't have a riff to start off the songs, or riffs that serve as the basis of the songs, that somehow there is something missing, there's something wrong or off.  This is based on the fact that the old Guns fell into the AC/DC and Metallica category of being riff-based rock/metal.  This is not the old school Guns, obviously.  So, that conception is not applicable.  My point was that there is nothing missing that was filled up with layers of instrumentation or anything like that.  These songs weren't meant to be riff-driven or riff-based or else there would have been riffs that the songs were based on.  These songs are based on melodies, beats and chord progressions (e.g. "Madagascar").

Judging a work based on what it isn't, rather on what it is, is a sure indicator of someone who went into the evaluation with pre-conceived notions.

Ali

Chinese what? Haven't listened to the album in a while now 'though sometimes a song pops up on my mp3-player. And I agree, there are some good songs on it. My favorites are This I Love, There Was A Time and Madagascar (though I prefer the live RIR3-version to the one on the record).

I still prefer the UYI-albums which are to me the best albums ever made. Many of you don't share my opion but that's just what it is, my opinion. If you think CD is the best record ever then I'm glad you like it. I don't think it will ever be as successful or popular as the previous GN'R albums (and I'm not talking about record sales here 'cause I know times have changed).

i agree that there are no real guitar riffs and disappointed me a lot.  Some of the solo's were quite cool though!

can i have some of what you're smoking?

What a bunch of bullshit. People are just ignoring awesome guitar riffs in Better intro, Riad, Scraped and Shacklers verses, IRS intro... All of them pretty much guitar, but not with THAT classic tone of the old stuff.

Seems like people are trying too hard to dismiss the album. As if the song can't be good unless its written in the same old formula.

And what's with this "oh, its a power chord progression, it's not really a riff". I wonder if people said that about Queen's "One Vision" (and that begins with a weird intro, just like CHinese):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJvNvBYTsGw

Or maybe Hammer to Fall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

Also, its not surprising to see who is complaining here. Always the same ones.

no one is dismissing the album.  just pointing out that the album is not really guitar oriented, which to me is pretty obvious.

I agree, it is not a guitar album, it's an Axl album.  None of the guitar players have a strong personality and thus do not have a strong influence on the sound like a certain former guitarist that shall remain nameless.

I guess because one guy, that you recognize from the past, doesn't play all the audible guitar parts, it can't be a guitar album....

 ::)


D, does Estranged have any riffs? That song was written on a piano. It must be a piano oriented song with no riffs or "headbanging guitars"!

Does that sound familiar? Exactly....




/jarmo

Correct, Estranged doesnt have one of the riffs being referred to.

I didn't, it was and it is.

While I have been a guns fan since the early 90's, because of various factors in my life at the times they took place, I have never attended a guns concert (my only live experience of the band is the tokyo videos).  Although I heard about the leaks, I did not listen to or download them.

So when the album was released, I had no prior experience of the songs in any version.  The album blew me away with the depth of songwriting and the talent of the musicians that accompanied it on my first listen and continues to do so today.

Each song on the album, far from becoming boring as they become more familiar, stands out as a great song in its' own right, while retaining a sense of solidity when all songs are taken as a whole.

this thread is proof my posts get skimmed over.

I said, this takes nothing away from the quality of the album, just my observation that they don't go for the bluesy old school or Metallica type riffs.

the guitar isn't the main instrument on most songs outside of the solos and that is fine. I've said it a hundred times it is fine.

my favorite song on the album has very little guitar in it at all "madagascar"

The Estranged melodies after the verses could be constituted as a "Riff" though but my point is, I never said the songs HAD to have said riff to be great. Just saying, there aren't any songs really on CD that have that old school big time riff.

Better does during the breakdown part before the intense vocal part, and I've given that riff high praise since day one.
but I am not a fan of the Better intro.


I also think Riad is heavier than Scraped.

IRS doesn't have a guitar RIFF either. It has the acoustical thing if that counts, but then Axl like on most of the other songs comes in with a vocal over a chord progression. Chord progressions aren't the riffs I am talking about.

I don't think anybody on all GNR boards combined has praised Shackler's Revenge more than I have. so lets cut it with the "D doesn't like the album" or "Doesn't get it" bullshit.

Before hearing the album, I was hoping for at least one old school type riff rocker. It wasn't on there, and that is fine. But if we are throwing out reviews, I am going to tell u what I love and what I don't love hence the title of review.


When I say I listen to TIL up till the solo, that isn't cause I am trying to be negative or a hater. I am just being honest. I have listened to TIL 120 times *check my Last FM and the solo still hasn't grown on me.

Before I am called a new band hater, I agree, Slash's guitar work on Libertad was subpar and I guess I am now no longer a Slash fan cause I said that.

I feel the guitar is closer to Korn than old school GNR or Metallica,Ac/DC etc.  once again, nothing wrong with that at all.

I think maybe the problem here is that its hard to explain what a musician considers a riff.  anyone who plays the guitar will know exactly what you're talking about but others probably don't and its too hard to explain in words lol!

I was talking about Izzy ;D

But seriously, you can say what you want about the top hatted one but his playing on the early stuff combined with Izzy's made a signature sound along with Axl's voice.  Now it is just Axl's voice.

I hear all kinds of Slash/Izzy style licks throughout CD.


Agreed, Gn'R have way heavier songs than Scraped.

Out Ta Get Me, My Michelle, You're Crazy, and Perfect Crime all come to mind.

But why have McDonalds when you can have kobe beef?

Because kobe can often leave a change that's more bitter than sweet.

And to deny the importance of Robin Finck and especially Buckethead on Chinese Democracy, even if they are gone now, is unfair.

I mean, Buckethead is all over the place...

If I were to ( over ) simplify, Chinese Democracy = Axl's vision + Buckethead's guitar + Robin's feel  

It's probably not as groundbreaking as GnR with Appetite, but it's definitely not just Axl's voice...

Or, if a shitload of albums sound exactly like Chinese Democracy then, by all means, tell me what bands I must listen to !

I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from Robin or Bucket.

I think what is being said is that if you have 2 players with the talent of Robin and Bucket then their playing should be more prominent in the mix and not be muddled under 50 layers of guitar.

But McDonalds leaves you feeling unsatisfied and just as hungery as you were before.

All those songs you just listed are old school, blues-based GN'R songs.  I don't see how anyone can think there is a heavier, more metal song than "Scraped".  It has no trace of blues-based rock, just a heavy, metal vibe to it.

Ali

The reason why the prolonged notes during the verses sound like he's going out of tune is because he is sliding through notes as opposed to distinctly and crisply hitting individual notes.  A singing technique that's frowned upon by most singing teachers (like my own), but sometimes used for stylistic effect, as in the case of "If The World".

Ali

When I think metal, I think Master of Puppets or Slayer, not Scraped.

This isn't a Metallica or Slayer forum, though.  This is a GN'R forum.  Compared to all the songs you listed, "Scraped" is the only metallic-sounding song.

Ali

I disagree, Scraped is far poppier than any of those songs.

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

It's riffs don't exactly scream "metal" though. More like hard-rock.

Listen to Disposable Heroes by Metallica, and then listen to Scraped.

Not much comparison.

We didnt say what was the most "Metal" sounding GNR song, that would still go to You're Crazy off Appetite

Problem with any discussion, is, u have those immediately who try to make accusations and point fingers if you compare CD to something else.

So I can say, this doesn't have riffs like appetite and that gets turned into I am a new band hater or some shit.

Considering Appetite is unanimously voted as one of the top 5 or so rock albums of all time, any comparison to appetite should be flattering and not perceived as some sort of slight

CD is however an extension from the UYI's and not Appetite.

I will give people the argument that CD is very comparable to UYI.

Take away the top songs from UYI and CD is definitely better than the rest of the UYI albums.

Certainly there is no November Rain,Estranged Civil War,YCBM or Coma on CD IMO but CD does more than hold its own with everything else and is better than most of UYI:

I hope this can not get deleted cause I am gonna type a shit load. My honest opinion, I am going to list which songs on CD I like better than previous GNR albums. this is just my opinion and isn't an old vs new bullshit thing.
This is Guns N Roses, so comparisons, I think are fair:


Chinese Democracy I like better than:
AFD:Anything Goes,You're Crazy,Think About You
Lies: Used to Love her,Reckless Life, Nice Boys,Mama Kin
UYI 1: Live and Let Die,You Ain't The First,Back Off Bitch,The Garden,Garden of Eden,Bad Apples
UYI II: Shotgun Blues, Get in The Ring, MY World


Shackler's
AFD:Out Ta Get Me,Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Everything not Patience OIAM or You're Crazy
UYI: RNDTH,Dust In Bones, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obession, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, The Garden, Garden Of Eden,Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI 11: 14 years,Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, GITR, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World

Better:
AFD Same s Shacklers
Lies Same As Shacklers
UYI: LALD,You Ain't The First, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples
UYI: Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, MY World

SOD:
AFD: Same as Shacklers
Lies Everthing off Lies
UYI:RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, Perfect Crime, You aint the first, Bad obssesion, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI: 14 years, Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, Pretty Tied up, So Fine, My World

If The World:
AFD:Same as Shacklers
Lies: All of Lies except Patience and OIAM
UYI 1: same as Street of Dreams
UYI II: Same as street of Dreams

THere Was A Time:
AFD Same As Shackler's Plus My Michelle
Lies: All of Lies
UYI: Same as SOD
UYI II Same as SOD


Catcher:
AFD: Same as Shackler's
Lies All of Lies but Patience and OIAM
UYI: same as SOD
UYI 11: Same as SOD

Scraped:
AFD Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies everything but Patience,You're Crazy,OIAM
UYI 1: RNDTH, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obsession, Back Off Bitch,DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI II: 14 years, Yesterdays,SB,GITR, So Fine, My World

Rhiad
AFD:Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Reckless Life, Nice Boys, used to Love Her
UYI: You Aint The First, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples

Sorry:
AFD:Out Ta Get Me, My michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, perfect Crime, YATF, Bad Obsession, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden Of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead horse
UYI 2: 14 years, Yesterdays, Shotgun, Get in the ring PTU, So Fine, My World

IRS
nothing off Appetite
reckless life, nice boys
back off bitch, bad apples
my world, shotgun blues, gitr

Madagascar:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone,Paradise City,My  Michelle,Think About You, Anything Goes, you're Crazy
Lies: All of It
UYI 1: all of it not November Rain or Coma
UYI 2: all of it not named Estranged

This I Love:
AFD:Same as SOD
Lies all of it
UYI Same as SOD
UYI 2 Same as SOD

Prostitute:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone, Paradise City, My Michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: All of it not Coma or November Rain
UYI: All of it not named ,Estranged


Top 10 GNR all time:
1.Estranged
2.Coma
3.Rocket Queen
4.Sweet Child O Mine
5.Welcome To The Jungle
6.November Rain
7.Nightrain
8.Madagascar
9.Prostitute
10.Civil War

The songs you listed are all old school GN'R rockers with blues-based riffs.  "Scraped" is not.  The guitars have a metallic sound.  Compared to old school Guns, like the songs you listed, it is more heavy metal-sounding.  I'm not talking about the riffs in "Scraped" on an absolute basis as being true metal, or in comparison to bands like Slayer or Metallica, I'm talking about in comparison to old school GN'R.

Ali

So if it'sblues based it can't be metal?  Listen to some Motorhead or Metallica's 'Ronnie" and you'll hear the absurdity in your arguement.

I'll say this, the old Guns was not in any way, shape or form a metal band to me.  They were a blues-based hard rock band that kicked a lot of ass with their more aggressive songs, but never, ever sounded truly metallic because of the influences that shaped Izzy and Slash as players.

No one is saying you're a new band hater, D.  But, this talk that something is missing because there aren't many riffs or riff-driven songs is to me built on a faulty premise based on past Guns' work that their songs should have riffs or be based on riffs.  This isn't that band so to me that mindset does not apply.

Ali

No, that's not what I said.  Way to twist my words around.  Early Sabbath was still blues-based in sound.  The guitars did not sound truly metallic because they did not remove the element of blues from them.  Bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and the NWOBHM did that.

I'm talking about the metallic sound of the guitars in "Scraped" as compared to old school Guns.

Ali

Ali, did you really have to quote that whole fucking post?

D, how can you leave Paradise City out of a Top 10?

I love guitar riffs. GNR has some of the greatest guitar riffs of all time, Metallica the same, even Kiss have some kick ass riffs.

I was just pointing out, that the only missing thing for me on CD is those definitive all time great blues based ball busting Riffs, that make you move and u air guitar/hum to.

I love riffs, that I can sing and CD really doesn't have many singable riffs.

That isn't putting down the quality of guitar work, I don't think Axl was going for that this time which is fine, but I am just saying I was hoping for a few of those.

Sing the Scraped riff right now

i seriously doubt anyone can.

we are simply saying, on CD, the guitar is used more in concert with the other instruments to make great music, but outside of the solos, the guitar isn't the absolute MAIN instrument on most of the songs.

It would be in the top 15... PC is interesting but it is one of those that just got kind of annoying over time. I remember never being able to sit through the entire video........

Its one of those unexplainable things.

I agree with you D. I love riffs, too. CD doesn't have hummable riffs. But, because that was by design, I don't feel anything is missing.

Ali

Yeah, I think we just had a misunderstanding and that happens with online discussion that wouldn't happen in person.


As u can see, I find CD to be brilliant.

Estranged is a song that I don't think could ever be surpassed but then again, I am incredibly biased just due to the meaning that song has for me. I can't being to describe but Madagascar has a close meaning also and i find it really weird when a lot of people rank it so low on CD.........

Even the quotes are just genius and brilliant. They tell a very good story i can relate to.


my main gripe about it was, how so many guitars/synths are a good idea on some songs, but on others it buries Tommy and even the drums to a degree.

If u haven't played Prostitute on Rockband, u are missing out.

I use to laugh when People said Tommy was better than Duff... after hearing his bass on Prostitute, I don't laugh anymore. it is incredible.

The only thing "poppy" about Scraped is the A-yo during the choruses.  And that's only because it is an element borrowed from hip hop which is the "pop" of nowadays.

You're Crazy is more punk than metal. 

BACK TO THE FRONT, CALEN!

You listen to any of the new death metal songs, some of the heaviest shit out now, and Scraped has the same structure as those songs.  The drums, the bass, and the riffing is fucking HEAVY METAL.

What about the Brownstone-style bongos during the first verse?

D I see what you are saying.  Metallica is a metal band though, comparing them and GNR is like apples and oranges.  If you could look up "guitar riffs" in a dictionary you would see a picture of James Hetfield and Kirk Hammett.  Metallica has never had more than 4 band members play on one album.  The riff tradeoff between Hetfield and Hammett is what every Metallica song is built around.  GNR on the other hand had what, like 10 band members credited on this album?  With so many musicians in the band you can't expect one instrument to carry the record.  Whatever GNR did on this album works, it is a great album.  "Chinese Democracy" is more along the lines of "Estranged", "November Rain" and "Dont Cry" than it is "Welcome to the Jungle", "Right Next Door to Hell" or "You Could Be Mine", the more "riff" oriented songs.  Which  I think is what you were trying to say in the first place.

Agree with everything you just said.  To me, "You're Crazy" is more punk-ish than metal.  "Scraped"'s riffs are more metallic.

Ali

What the hell does Robin plays above the accoustic guitar then? Do you call it a solo?

And it's nice to see how Ron licks all over the chord progression getting gone from your listening pleasure.


AKA prejudice. You expected something they NEVER promised you, and now you're upset. Very fair.

Bullshit. I've been playing guitar for 14 years, I know exactly what a riff is. I posted two examples of Queen's chord progression riffs, but hey, let's ignore it.

Hahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.



Again, not a surprise to see who says what.

For those that don't know what riffs are, you can hear them in the begining of the following songs.

Smoke on the Water
Back in Black
Highway to Hell
Lagrange
Sweet Emotion
Satisfaction
Voodoo Child
Rock Bottom

No songs on CD have riffs that stand out like the above tunes.  That isn't a "bad" thing.  Its a fact.  D is correct, and he also said he loves the album.  Get off his back.  You don't have to have a great riff for a song, but, it sure does help.

I think Better qualifies.

IMO, Better and Riad riffs are both stand out riffs.

Smoke on the water and Satisfaction are a chord progression. It can't be a riff!!!!!!!!! :P

Shall we put Back in Black in that range too? Its a chord progression with just a lick in the middle.

Also, reminds me of All Along The Watchtower accousti intro. That can't be a riff either.

And so on...

So basically there are no riffs in the world and therefore all music isn't as good as it could be if there were some riffs in it?

 :rofl:




/jarmo

Wow, you are seeing the light.... HA!

Not what I said, but you all get the point. 

I think what some people are trying to say is that CD lacks in "dirty" riffs (see Mr Brownstone). but this is not the point I want to make.

For me CD could have at least 3 perfect songs (TWAT, CITR, Madagascar) but  the final cut is subpar with the exception of Madagascar.

TWAT has severe bass and drums issues (compare the drum sound to the one in Madagascar) while CITR is completely butchered.

regarding the rest of the songs, most are good but the whole album suffers from mixing problems (esp Tommy's bass which is almost inaudible)   

And before someone again says that if we had not heard the leaks then we wouldn't complain I will say that the leaks more or less suffer from the same problems.  :peace:

where did I ever say I was upset? Now u are just making stuff up

I have praised most of the album. I simply said, I would love to have one kick ass straight up old school riff crazy rocker.

If u count guitar fills as riffs, all power to u. I separate them......

I already talked about Better and how I don't like the intro... I think the tone is annoying... with Guitar for me, its about attitude and tone. I could care less how many notes u can per second or how technical u are.

I like emotion filled, amazing tone.

For instance, I am not a fan of Joe Perry... I like his riffs but U couldn't pay me to sit through most of his solos as they bore me to tears..... kind of the opposite with GNR.. their solos,fills kick ass but they don't really come up with big time riffs.
I think Prince has the most amazing guitar tone ever and could listen to him play for hours on end. can he play 1000 notes per second? no but his tone just eats u alive.

thats just what I am into. I don't dislike Robin as a person or musician but for most of CD, I don't like his guitar tone. He has a nice tone on Better's solo and SOD solo but his tone on the Better intro and TIL solo just don't please my ear.



If u think they have a SCOM or Walk This Way or Enter Sandman type of iconic riff on this album, u are mistaken

once again, nobody is bitching or upset about that. we are just talking about the album and what we love and what we don't necessarily love.

how come when anyone says anything half way critical of this band, somebody has to break out the "U were never owed or promised something"  Jesus that drives me bat shit crazy when someone says that. I am the biggest Bon Jovi fan in the world but if their new album doesn't have some fucking rock on it, I am going to be mentioning that in my reviews of the album

Jesus, Madagascar and Prostitute make my all time 10 greatest GNR songs ever list. That is a damn good compliment to this album especially considering what an old school GNR die hard I am and I have never hid that.

Well worth the wait (a minor miracle considering how loooooooong the wait was) and one of the great "fan" albums ever IMHO. Moderate commercial success (by lofty Guns N' Roses standards of yore)- yet an artistic triumph of the highest order.

Enjoy the entire album regularly, but "Prostitute" (Axl's greatest song ever IMHO), "This I Love", "Rhiad & The Bedoins", "Catcher In The Rye" and "Better" and are the true stand-outs for me...

I agree with D!  This thread is such a joke!  I thought reviews included positive and negative feedback.  seems like only positive feedback is wanted here or else your a band "hater".

I would have LIKED more riffs on CD.  i DO understand that Axl never promised me this.  But while discussing the album, im still gonna talk about why i would have liked more riffs. 

Does that make me a band "hater"???    If it makes some people feel better about themselves to brand me that then fine!

Overall id give the album 6/10.  Some good ballads, great Axl vocals and some cool guitar but lacks some of the agression that got me into Guns.

The review a lot of you want to hear:  CD is a masterpiece.  It is a miracle that this album was ever released and Nu Guns are the best band in the world.  Everything is so good with this album that nobody can ever question any of it.  :hihi:

Here's the thing:  if you are going to post your opinion on a message board, you are opening it up for challenge and discussion.  If you don't want your opinion challenged and questioned and discussed, don't put it on a message board.

That's not the same as calling someone a "hater".  I, for one, never used that word once.  I just feel that anyone that thinks there is something missing if there are no guitar riffs driving the new songs is off base because these songs were never meant to be built like that.  Songs like "Madagascar" were built around chord progressions played on a keyboard/synthesizer or piano.  That mindset is, in my opinion, not applicable because its based on expectations created by the old band and their riff-driven songs.  This is not the old band.

Ali

It's not really a "riff rock" album but Chinese, Better (throughout), Riad (throughout), Shackler's (particularly the pre-chorus) and Scraped (intro/second chorus) in particular all have pretty clear and "hummable" riffs at numerous parts in the song, including the beginning.  Just because the album does not contain the old AC/DC, GNR, Back In Black, Jungle style riffs or the current "intro-palm mute during the verses" thing going on does not mean there aren't riffs on the album

For that matter, Sorry also has a pretty clear "riff" during the verses, pre-choruses and the choruses, even though they are pretty low key aside from the chorus

You are wrong.  Smoke on Water Riff, the whole song is built around that riff.  Take the riff away, you have no song.  Back in Black, are you serious?  THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST OBVIOUS RIFFS EVER.  Better's intro 'riff' or intro is so weak and is not necessary to the song.  Satisfaction is a simple riff, yes, but one of the most famous ones ever... Again, song is built around it.

The intro to Better runs quite a bit through the song, and at least all of the verses. And no, the riff from Smoke On The Water doesn't run through the entirety of the song. If it did, the song would be even more boring than it already is.

Was GNR a heavy metal band?  ???

the bit in the middle of better is the most metal moments of GNR in my book. still i refuse to head bang. it makes me dance tho.

1st, are they riff now? Even if they are chords progression?

2nd, what is wrong anyways? All I said about those songs are how they all have chord progression riffs (which, before, you guys were saying it couldn't be considered as a riff).

Also, Voodoo Child main structure has ZERO connection with the intro riff.  Same with Smoke on the Water.

Its pointless.  I guess Patience has some killer riff too... Man, CGAD, that is one heavy riff.......  You know what the hell a riff is and what is not a riff.  And, I don't really consider the Sweet Child intro to be a riff.  Not sure why, just seems like a melody line to me.  I love it, but its not what I think of when I think of a riff.  Still of the Night by Whitesnake?  That is a riff.

I think some people know but for whatever reason they just can't admit that there are not many riffs on CD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riff

A chord progression can be or can be part of, a riff  :P

This is the most ridiculous argument ever.  Enough already!  The album's great, riffs or not.

WTF? Did I say every chord progression is a riff?

Also, if you don't even consider SCOM intro a riff, I think we're done here. You only consider a riff when is a hard rock type of lick as a riff/intro.

Of course it can. That's what I've been saying. Even Smells Like Teen Spirit intro (clearly a chord progression) is a riff in itself (as the other songs I mentioned). But hey, tell that to Smoking Guns and D.

Here's the problem I have with "Sweet Child o' Mine."  That is not a riff.  That is an intro, a single-note run, an arpeggiated melody.  It is not a riff.

People forget what a RIFF is.  A riff is a guitar part that underpins and holds together a song.  You could conceivably play "Sweet Child" without that intro part and it'd still be a song.

"Smoke on the Water" is a riff.  "Man on the Silver Mountain" is a riff.  Now, if you want a Guns n' Roses riff, "Welcome to the Jungle" has one.

I guess intros should just be intros, like Thunderstuck by AC/DC or something.  But clearly a song like Lagrange is built around the riff.  AC/DC  maybe be the best example of pure riff rock.

I feel some cool know it all guitar players have drifted away from the topic, start a new thread so you won't look like such douches I know most of you aren't

Yep. Jeez. Talk about "looking for something to bitch about"!

ironically the know it all riff or not argument points out another significant aspect of the album to us. 

rockn roll used to be against rigid customary practices and cd's just free from them.

So dam true look at what the music biz has become they dont care about Rock N' Roll any more in the US if its not Rap or Pop then your fucked

Sorry about that. I just think people are making up excuses to diss or dislike something about Chinese Democracy. And this "riff" discussion is nothing more than that - it's not about what the album is, but what it isn't for some people.

Ok, so you built a new concept of what a riff is. Good for you, I can't beat that. And what happened to Voodoo Child (the song), which you said before how it was a riff and now, by your new concept, it isn't?

The "worst" thing they can say about the album is that it lacks "riffs" and then it's pointed out to them how flawed their way of thinking is....

It just boils down to the fact that some people were hoping for Appetite For Destruction type of songs and they got something else.





/jarmo

Appetite For Destruction _> 1987

Chinese Democracy _____> 2008

21-Century... Good Disc, Excelente performance vocal, instrumental, drums, , Excelent Riffs..

You like the musical evolution?

Let's not take what I said out of context

Never did I say this wasn't a great album.

I simply pointed out, if I could have one thing, I'd have one throw back Riff heavy rocker.

That doesn't undermine the entire album and we never said it did. When giving a review, I tell what I love about it but reviews are objective also and I just said that I would have liked to have had maybe one or two really riff rocky bad ass rock songs.



Voodoo you are wrong about IRS. The guitar lead Robin plays is not a riff. That is a guitar fill or melody

Chord progressions and riffs aren't what I was talking about.

I was meaning to say, Axl sings over Chord Progressions but they aren't really riffs

For Example, CD's Chord Progression is a riff cause it is the featured part of the song.

What Axl sings over on IRS is just a chord Progression but it isn't a riff cause it isn't ever used as the main part of the song A La a Walk This Way or Stairway, Rock N Roll, paranoid, Iron Man, Black in Black etc

Same with Scraped, what is the main riff? U can't sing it cause it is just a chord Progression Axl sings over.

Just saying, no riff from CD will ever make any greatest riffs of all time list.

That isn't taking away from the album, cause I don't think Axl was trying to make that kind of album so its ok. I think he even said in one interview how he didn't know how to make that kind of album or something right?


Once again, a few of us are saying how it would've been cool, if maybe a song or two would've had some really hard  amazing riff.

The best riff on the album "Better" breakdown part is half way through the song.

Yes, sorry if I was taken out of context as well.  Like D, I like the album, but was noting a song or two with some nasty, ballsy guitar riffage would have been nice.  My favorite tune, "If the World", is badass and it does't need a killer riff.  I think we can all agree on that.   : ok:

The songs in their current forms work fine. Madagascar is my favorite song and TBH, that song could have no guitar and it would still be awesome.... well leave in the awesome guitar licks but u get the idea.

This I Love with just piano,orchestra and Axl IMO would be even more powerful because having a guy behind a piano and singing his guts out like Axl doesn't require anything else.



My point is, it isn't what I'd consider a guitar driven album. The solos are great for the most part but my definition of a guitar driven album is Death Magnetic or something like that.

once again, that takes nothing away from the album quality whatsoever.

I haven't listened to it in a few months -- was kind of against it since nothing was really happening. Threw it in today, turned the BOSE on and I was in heaven all over again. My favorite still is Scraped, followed by Sorry then IRS. Was good to bring back great memories of walking into a Best Buy and actually seeing some sort of GNR promotional items. Good times...

What the hell? Anything could be a "guitar fill or melody".

Oh, great.

Again, your ignoring Ron guitar work - far from being only a chord progression. Still, IRS has a wha riff here and there very subtle, but that doesn't count, right?

The chorus thing has a riff there. It's not just a chord progression.

So? Again, you put in the popularity POV.

He said they tried to do something like AFD, but that didn't feel right.

Better intro riff is amazing. Riad's riff is amazing and hard as hell. Shackler's riff is amazing (I mean the guitar riff that starts when Axl starts to sing). You don't think they are amazing riffs, that's ok. But don't tell me there's no guitar riffs in there - and all of those songs are pretty guitar driven.

Hopefully you'll explain to me your new concept of riff soon. And its a shame that you can't consider those riffs I mentioned above as "ballsy guitar riffage", you may think they are all synth soft chord progression.

I think you are grasping for straws Voodoo but that is just my opinion, U are calling guitar parts Axl sings over in the verses Guitar riffs... and yeah, technically anything is a riff but U are refusing to see what we are talking about and it is driving me bat shit crazy:

We are talking RIFF as in Master of Puppets, Enter Sandman, Paradise City, Welcome to The Jungle, Walk This Way, Paranoid, Iron Man, Crazy Train

RIFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not what the vocalist sings over.



I am sitting here listening to "Imagine" by John Lennon and it makes me wish Axl had made Catcher like this. Just piano with a little orchestra and Axl's awesome piano,vocals and melodies


Listen to "Imagine" and then imagine *no pun intended a bunch of crazy guitar over top of it... it jwould ruin the song.


I think in parts on CD, Axl tries so hard to let every band member be involved that it becomes overkill to a degree.

TIL doesn't need a solo but i feel where RObin talked Axl into using it, he felt he owed Robin a moment to shine and I just don't think it works as well as just a piano/orchestra vocal version.

 :rofl:
yup, that sounds like our axl all right, leaving stuff on CD to be kind

Voodoo, why do you care so much that D, myself, and Jdog (i think that is his name) enjoy some monster riffage from riff masters like Tony Iommi, Angus Young, and even Slash.  I think we just wanted some hard straight ahead rock tunes.....  Some songs have some touches of that, but none are made dripping wet of pure badassness....  Its okay, we still like the album.  It is not good enough for you Voodoo that we bought the album and supported GNR.  No, D and I actually now have to admit that Robin Finck, Bucket, Richard, and Ron are now "riff masters" and that the album is complex is deep that our simple minds can't "hear" the riffs.  Maybe on the next album, Axl will get a little more primal, stripped down, and let the guitar players do their thing.  Outside of solos, I really just don't hear much attitude in their playing.   

I was listening to it again and I noticed a few riffs.  Shackler's Revenge,  If The World which is a very riff-heavy, guitar oriented song, IRS threw me at first with the reggae parts, but there are some heavy riffs on that song too.   And the chorus of Sorry, and the song Scraped. But like others have said, this album goes far beyond simply relying on a guitar riff for a song.  The solos are all pretty amazing, and Axl sings great.   Sometimes I have to slap myself to make sure it is real that I am hearing Axl Rose sing along with Buckethead's guitar. 

Did I say that every single guitar part Axl sings over is a riff? I pointed out the parts.

And NO, you guys aren't taking Riff as you said. At least that's not what Smoking Guns were saying.

I pointed out a few riffs on Chinese songs but you just don't think its enough. That's my point: why the hell those riffs like Riad and Better "doesn't count", as you said previously?

That's ridiculous.

Also, you seem to hate what a lot of people loves in the album. From Robin's solo in TIL to TWAT's lyrics. See, you think Axl ruined a song because of your personal taste, as if its a common sense. A LOT of people thinks Bumblefoot's guitar work in Catcher is superb and even likes the song more than the demo.

I don't care. I do care if you say how much you love those hard rock guitar work and disconsider everything else as a fucking riff just because the tone is different or it isn't as much "straight ahead rock tunes" as you expected.

It's like there's always a need to say "it's great, BUT...". But one thing is to dislike something, other is to claim how it doesn't have something just because it's not the way you expected. Again: Riad riff is fucking huge and heavy, but you all seem to ignore it. Better intro riff is just a wha guitar, but you all seem to ignore it.

Also, the whole "chord progression is not a riff" thing just vanished, huh?

Oh, stop with the overreacting. The thing is: you just seem to consider riff when is a hard rock classic tone. When something like Shackler's riff is pointed out, you just ignore it. Bucket is playing a really heavy riff there, but that doesn't count just because you guys doesn't want to. Same with Riad. Same with Scraped. Same with Chinese. Same with Better. See a pattern there?

haha so, it wasn't out of context after all those riff driven dogmatists were trying to belittle cd's greatness whether its riff or not. :hihi:



must be a wrong person. J dog adores the album.

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

I go back and forth on either There Was A Time or Better being the greatest GN'R song ever. And cases for both songs can be made on Finck & BH's playing.

Greatest EVER? as in EVER....... Better is better than Welcome To The Jungle, SCOM, NR or Estranged? :nervous:

Im my opinion it is. If I had to take one Gn'R song to stand by it would be There Was A Time. I love all Gn'R songs, but TWAT is my fav.

With that said, recently I've been playing the hell out of the Greatest Hits too.

No disrespect intended, but u have to take into account that u are comparing a song not even a year old to something 20 years old

so yeah, a song is played out and u are sick of it but that is cause its 20 years old. So of course something fresher and newer will seem better but I'd like to see if u still feel that way in 20 years.

I think everything is the greatest for the first year or so............... Then once u start wearing it out, u kind of get the true test of its staying p ower

I loved "This I Love" first 100 listens, now..... I can't be bothered to hear it anymore

I've listened to Madagascar for 8 years and still LOVE IT.

Quick n' dirty:

CD 2/10 (way too long intro)
Shackler's 6/10
Better 5/10
SoD 4/10
ItW 4/10
TWAT 10/10
Catcher 7/10
Scraped 6/10
Riad 4/10
Sorry 8/10
I.R.S. 7/10
Maddy 8/10
TiL 8/10
Prostitute 9/10

= 6,3/10 or 3,1/5

I've already listened to cd more times than uyi and perhaps afd.  :hihi:

still can't decide on what cd song is the best ever. yea twat is really moving so is madagascar. but better is the most cathartic and irs is so intense. ITw shows me the cosmos riad is like gusts of wind and scraped gives me a lot of go and prostitue cradles me.
scacklers is murderous and citr is anti peter pan. TIL is so naked. so is sorry.
cd is one of the greatest opening/ title songs

overall the band's growth is remarkable on cd.

I still can't stop listening to the whole album. I do replay Riad and Scraped a lot, tho.

I have a playlist with some of the old songs, but I'm always anxious to the new songs to start. :)

You know very well how TWAT is out there for more than 3 years. They even played it live by that time.

Goes in the same way about Madagascar for you and Riad for me.

In my opinion, not only is Better superior to SCoM, WttJ & Estranged, it's far and away superior to those tracks. I feel the same way about TWaT as well but I sometimes can't decide which of those two is the best.

likewise, puristic Beatles fans and maybe some casual fans prefer yesterday to a day in the life  :hihi:

I pretty much agree.  There are plenty of songs on Chinese Democracy that I would prefer over Estranged, and SCOM.  I always thought SCOM was wayyy overrated.  It's kind of pop, and is way different from the other songs on AFD.    Jungle is classic, though, and I don't know if any band can match it, but that is in it's own category.  Estranged is cool, but it's like 10 minutes and I don't have the patience to sit through it regularly. 

November Rain is cool, but I was never really that into it.  It can be a big hit or whatever, but it doesn't mean I worship it.   As far as I'm concerned there isn't much difference in the songs  between November Rain and the new ballads except that Slash and Duff aren't on there.  I think there plenty of songs on CD that are similar to Estranged and November Rain.   It basically picked up where UYIs left off. 

and you don't see the huge growth?

I don't hear anything on CD that approaches Estranged

If The World, TWAT, Catcher in The Rye, Madagascar... IMO.  Maybe even This I Love or Sorry.  Not saying one is better than the other, but they are on the same level and I would probably even listen to these more often cuz they are not as long.

Full disclosure, I am very biased towards Estranged. Its my absolute favorite song in music history so  for me, nothing comes close to it.

I think Catcher has potential to be one of the best songs ever, but it just has too much going on. The Demo was more stripped down with a much better intro etc

the guitar is too loud in the mix and it overshadows Axl's lyrics/vocals and there aren't any memorable licks in it

I can't beleive some of the shit I am reading on here.  I think Axl himself knows Estranged is probably one of his deepest songs ever. 

Voodoo, songs you love in GNR are some of my least favorite... You said Scraped and Riad are your two favorites from the album.  These are the two I always skip.... But I can't get enough of If The World, now that song is awesome.  Its amazing we are both GNR fans, yet our tastes within GNR are vastly different.

God forbid people have opinions of their own and like some of the new songs better than the old.  Didn't know that was forbidden.

I too love "Scraped", one of my favorites on the album.  And I never truly appreciated Riad until I got the album and listened to it 100's of times.  Now I see the greatness.

You can have an opinion... But don't drop the word "greatest" around so much.  It really cheapens the word in my opinion.

Well thank Gawd your opinion isn't gospel around here.

Lord don't get me started on the 'Greatest" "thing again

Everything about Estranged is way better than all of CD combined

It has the amazing lyrics, the emotion of This I Love

Musically it just can't be matched.

Axl's piano interludes are unmatched, Slash's guitar melodies are unmatched

the way the song changes mood and feel and it has SO many different sections.

It truly is an Epic and the greatest song of all time.

Better is a Pro Tool cut and paste hatchet job of a song

If The World is great don't get me wrong but it doesn't have the complexity or the musical changes Estranged does

I don't think If The World is even trying to be complex like Estranged.

It's a fun, easy-going pop-rock song. Estranged is an all-out epic.

IMO There Was A Time and Prostitute are nearly as epic enough to rival estranged and NR

Ah... the internet. The only place where someone can tell you that your opinion doesn't matter whilst trying to force their opinion on you.

I personally believe Better and TWaT are both superior tracks to anything GN'R has done in the past. I get that people like Estrange, WttJ, etc...... fair enough. I love those tracks as well. However, I enjoy Better and TWaT more. So having said that, it makes those 2 songs superior to those older songs IMO.

Where's the problem?

I take TWAT over NR and estranged. they are all great but twat is the handsomest. from the intro bit right after the choir it gives me a throb.


.
so true.

enough of negative campaign against new songs. it can't change our appreciation of cd.

If Estranged was on CD and Twat was on UYI, would you say the same thing?

Doubt it.

that means paul dizzy robin bh chris etc were on UYI. 

howbout you? would you still say the same things about the songs?

Strongly Doubt it.

If TWaT was on UYI and sounded exactly as it does on CD and vice versa, ofcourse I would. I get what you're saying. You're saying I'm claiming TWaT is superior only because it's on CD... which is ridiculous. I might ask the same of you in reverse, but I wouldn't do that because I'm taking a leap of faith in saying you like those older songs just because of your personal opinion, not some unfounded bias against CD or the lineup the recorded it.

If CD came out in 87, and Appetite came out in 2008, and Robin, Richard, Frank were original members and in 2008 we get PC, SCOM, WTTJ I think we could all still be objective and not be able to deny the power of those older songs.  If the World can hang easily with the back catalog....  TWAT is good, but its more on the level of Breakdown (which is very very good).. But Don't Cry, NR, and Estranged back to back to back are all so hard to beat.

And again, I disagree. I think everything on CD stands up to the back catalog except (IMO) SR. And on top of that I think Better and TWaT not only stand up to, but are superior to anything on the first several albums.

I am saying that is fine BUT WTTJ etc are so worn out and are 20 years old, so of course the fresher, newer thing is gonna be better because it hasn't been played to death.

Chinese Democracy - Good
Shackler's Revenge - Not Good
Better - Very Good
Street Of Dreams - Beautiful
If The World - Good
There Was A Time - Great
Catcher In The Rye - Good
Scraped - Average
Riad N' The Bedouins - Good
Sorry - Good
I.R.S. - Good
Madagascar - Very Good
This I Love - Beautiful
Prostitute - Good

Overall - Very Good

I can respect that, but it's honestly not the issue for me. I listen to WttJ now and again and it isn't played out for me. It is, was and always will be one of the greatest rocks tracks ever recorded. I just happen to find Better to be superior.

again Ive already listened to cd more than old albums and it only cultivates my appreciation of cd. I don't care if anyone prefers songs that are not on cd to the ones on cd.  it also depends on your impressibility. but this thread is about cd. Why a few in here hate to see others loving the latest release of 'their fav band' so much is totally beyond me.


That'd be retrogression. Last time I checked, the universe hasn't started its contraction yet. Can't you see the absurdity of making such an impossible supposition?

D is spot on as usual!

Of course people are going to enjoy their shiny new toy for a while.  its new and fresher.
Ill bump this thread in 22 years and see if you still have the same opinion.   :hihi:

 :hihi:

Any reason to insult the newer music I guess. Seeing as everyone who listened to the leaks (or at least attended the 06 tours) has heard Better/IRS/TWaT/CD, etc for at least 3 (coming up on 4) years, I wouldn't say the songs are "shiny new toys" but again, whatever excuse you need to find fault with the newer material..... have at it.

Do you find it just the tiny bit odd only die hards like us gave this album a shot?  Is that ALL based on promotion, or maybe the reason the earlier albums did so good is because they are amazing?!?!

Oh I'm aware that there are tons of other factors. For me, the least of which being quality of music. True story;

Of everyone I know, there are only 2 people that won't give the album any sort of fair shot. They're both pretty much "AXL TOOK FOREVER TO MAKE THIS!" or "IT'S NOT THE REAL GUNS N' ROSES!" type of guys. Neither of them would give the music a shot, at all. Every other person I know including a person who never really liked "the original Guns N' Roses" gave the music an honest listen and either likes the majority of, or the entire record.

So last Saturday, I'm at a poker game and I brough my laptop to DJ with. I put "Sorry" in the mix. One of the two people who won't listen to the album was playing in the poker game. About half way through Sorry he says "Hey, what album is this off?" and ofcourse my response was "Are you being serious right now?"

Everyone else at the poker table just kinda looked at him then waited for me to finish. I said "Um... this is the one you won't give a fair chance" so he says "Well is the rest of is this good?" and I said "Well, let me put it this way; this is one of my least favorite songs on the record"

So you know what he did Sunday? He went to Best Buy and bought Chinese Democracy. Texted me yesterday to tell me he couldn't believe how much he was loving it. And this guy was DEAD SET against wanting anything to do with it.

So no, I don't think it's only promotion. I think it's peoples own perceptions that get in the way a great deal as well.

Great story and so true.

Certain people decided that they don't like Chinese Democracy in 1996.....

That's when their minds were made up about the album. An album that didn't exist at that point, but that's not important to these people.




/jarmo

this all gets back to promotion. find a way for people to hear it, and it will sell.

I was just kidding about bumping the thread in 22 years  :beer:
Thats a great story you told and im happy for you!  
i like the album but i just don't agree with the songs being better than WTTJ, SCOM, PC, NR or Estranged.
To me them songs are just awesome and will never be beaten.  

I was at a family party recently and we were all drunk listening to November Rain, paradise city, jungle and sweet child.  It was amazing seeing so many generations air guitaring and having great times.  But thats just how good them old songs are.

Its a shame a lot of people don't even know Guns are still around these days but hey... thats there job if they want it.


PS:  if Guns' first single ever was NR, i don't think it would have sold.  because they got so popular they were in a position to release such an epic song.  even alan niven thought they had lost the plot!

Yep. And I used to be one of those people. Between 1996 and 2002, you couldn't have convinced me that Axl was going to product superior material to anything he'd done in the past. Then I forced myself to go to see them in November of 02 with an open mind.

I was blown away by the passion with which they played the old material but even moreso, I was intrigued by the new material. It was different than anything before it, different than anything else being done and just awesome.

When the record finally came out, I actually had gone from no expectations to high hopes. And I'm excited that it's everything I wanted it to be!

So you know what he did Sunday? He went to Best Buy and bought Chinese Democracy. Texted me yesterday to tell me he couldn't believe how much he was loving it. And this guy was DEAD SET against wanting anything to do with it.

Chinese Sold: 5.000.001 Millions Of Copy, 08 september' 09

 :hihi:

Very Ture, but w/ promotion = more airplay, your buddy may have already had the album...



See you're going into it with basically a closed mind.... How can you say something you have not heard form the band yet, wont be better?

Same bullshit every time. No wonder they are so quick to jump off and say how you can't prefer the new songs - but God forbid us to defend the new album.

People said that in 2001, 2006 and 2008 and here we are.

he didn't say that....he said the songs in CD are not better than the old ones. I believe he has heard CD.
I do agree with him. CD is a good album, but it's nowhere near the old albums. only talking about the music now, not taking into account at all who plays on them. though I do find Axl's performance Better on the old albums.
but, it's a good album. pretty much no band or musician can live up to their golden days in later times. look at Metallica, Rolling Stones, AC/DC...and most others.
but I do hope GNR keeps it up and releases more new music though, cos to me it's still better than most thats out there these days.

I disagree on many artists, not the least of which is Guns N' Roses with Chinese Democracy.

He did say that, I just quoted wrong, see below:

I love CD, don't get me wrong but WTTJ, SCOM, Estranged..........

Its better than most of the songs not listed above but to call it better than those is a BOLD Statement

but hey, its whatever u like I guess.

I think Better is the one of the worst GNR songs ever TBH. I absolutely hate it. WAY too poppy to be GNR.

And that is a BOLD statement.

WOW! And I guess that's part of what makes GN'R so great in general. How broad the opinions are of their own material in their fan base is a pretty cool statement.

Floyd fans are about the only others that come to mind that way.

We both know Roger Waters is "Pink Floyd".

HAHAHA, I prefer David Gilmore!

Or maybe you prefer David Gilmour perhaps?

DAAAAAAMN!!!!  I believe that makes you Smoking Guns' father.

 :hihi:

Actually, I felt like a dick after I posted that. It's just one of my pet peeves, kinda like people who type "Axel Rose" lol

John Lenin.

IDEM.

Gilmour Is Pink Floyd

 :smoking:

That's funny. I actually misspelled John Lennon once on a blog and someone pointed it out. It's funny that you picked that out of a hat.  :hihi:

DER you just proved his point  : ok:

 :hihi:

"...we're all dumber for having listened to you, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul"

Oops, busted, how did I mess that up.... Nice find.. HAHA

Hell yeah I love the album if they cant tell the rifts in the songs like If The World, Shackler's Revenge, Better, CD, and I heard a rift in This I love in the solo but I still am not 100% sure but all the songs are just perfect for me cant wait for the tour and the next album hope it wil be out before 15 years  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I joke :beer: