Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In this week's Best Buy store ad, Chinese Democracy is once again pictured.  Best Buy has dropped the price to $7.99!!  I guess Best Buy is still sitting on many copies of the CD.  Maybe this will encourage more people to give Chinese Democracy a listen.  Man, this would be a fantastic time for a single/video.   

Is that right?  I might have to buy a spare copy so I can keep one permanently in my car AND my home.

This could mean three things, in my honest opinion:

1- The album is now available in every american music store (is that right, americans? I've heard somewhere the BB deal of exclusivity ended in may) and, because of the fact there's no longer a ''monopoly'' of the album, they have to sell it cheaper.

2- This is the begining of something: this could encourage rock fans of all types to buy the album, and as GnRStL09 said, this could be the perfect moment to launch a videoclip, or why not some tour dates.

3- BB overestimated the ammount of copies of CD they were going to sell, the CD didn't sell well enough, and they are just trying to get rid of the copies they still have left

My common sense tells me the right guess is #1. But my heart wants it to be #2.

speaking of a video did the one of better ever come out?

True the timing is right i water a better video now

ahaha oooh CDE you sure crack me up every time i see your post... I went to target last week but i didn't check the music section so im not sure if its available everywhere yet.

Unfortunatly no...

One of the big chains here in Florida, FYE, had 1 copy last week but they were selling it as an Import for $27. It doesn't appear to be available anywhere other than Best Buy still. I only go to a few locations for music though.

it means they got tons of copies and are trying to make back as much money as they can.

I will probably go buy another copy when I get some extra cash just for the hell of it.

It has been 'available' since day 1 at several local shops and smaller chains in the Northeast...the largest being Newbury Comics, that was actually selling the CD in its original wrapping with 'BB exclusive' still attached...strangely, they were actually undercutting BB by 2$ (when BB was $11.99).  CD's had BB sticker at $13.99 on it...while I am not familiar with BB's tagging routine, I assume these CD's must have been on the floor to be priced?  Perhaps BB has wholesale accounts for outside vendors.

We have Fye her in Wa as well, I will have to check.

Until somebody credible says otherwise, it's a Best Buy exclusive in the USA.




/jarmo

I took care of that the first time around, lol.  Would have been cheaper if I had waited, but at least I'm not the guy who bought a whole shopping cart full.  If anything he supported  it the most financially : ok:.

My experience tells me #3. At my local best buy they still have about 300 copies still lining the shevles, its just not selling. They had a special offer on lies last week for $7.99, so its no surprise theyre trying to shift some old surplus stock.

i say 3..
good things in the gnr world dont usually happen

Youze are reading WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too much into the $7.99 thing

That's the natural progression (digression) of ALL album pricing ... $11.99 to $9.99 to $7.99

Yeah I don't think it really means anything, they're just lowering the price.  It could just be a temporary price reduction anyway, not sure what it says in the actual ad.  But I think it's pretty obvious that the album hasn't sold as well as Best Buy anticipated so I'm sure this price reduction is at least taking into consideration that it could hopefully help them move more units.  The CD hasn't sold well at Best Buy in recent months, no CD's have.  People just don't go to Best Buy to buy CD's these days.  That's a plain and simple fact.  Maybe the lower price figure will work, that's what they're banking on.

Axl did say Best Buy was promised a video, I think they deserve one, but as far as we know there's been no movement along those lines.

ANYONE who found some reason why they downloaded leaks but wouldn't buy the album should go ahead and shell out the $7.99 for this now.

Excelente News, good strategy From BEST BUY...

I Believe, Chinese Democracy Sell out or 23 November 2009:

- 6 Millions Of Copy

 :smoking:

Does anybody know the current sales of CD? Just curious...

In the US Id guess around 650k by now

Does that mean theres at least 350k still on Best Buy shelves?

Maybe they need some room in the GNR section.

I believe Best Buy ordered 1.3 million copies.

Do the math.

Statement Official Chinese Democracy Sold: 03 february - 2009: 3 Millions of copy

I believe what CD Sold From 04 February or 10 August - 2009: 2 Millions Of Copy

I believe what CD Sold From 11 August or 23 November - 2009: 1 Million Of Copy

TOTAL: 6 MILLIONS OF COPY

Excelents Sales...


 :beer:

I picked up two more copies yesterday, before heading to the Yanks game.  One for the guy driving to the game (I'd brought my copy the previous day, to the game...he REALLY liked it so I figured I'd grab him a copy) and a copy for my younger brother.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

what was that man?

Trying to get rid of stock is all!

And no its not available in any other retail stores in the states (other than imports/used copies)

Source or bullshit.

With luck on our side yes it will sell 6 million copys ;)

I know as of around Feb or so it was at 560k

the last 5 months its averaged about 4k a week

so that would be about another 100k

that is where I got my figure.

I think it's called a guesstimate....

 ;)


/jarmo

I seriously doubt the 6 million figure

I'm pretty sure around February or March it was at 3 million worldwide.

so I would probably guess around 4 to 4.5 million worldwide.

I just got back from a Best Buy here in CT, I bought another copy of CD for my car so I don't have to transport back and forth anymore.

Anyway, the saga continues.  There was absolutely NO INDICATION that the CD was on sale.  The $13.99 sticker was prominently displayed and no signs of any sale going on or reduced price stickers or anything of the sort.  So I brought the CD up to the check out and asked for a price check, telling the cashier I was pretty sure it was on sale according to this weeks ad.  She said she thought it was still regular price but checked it anyway and sure enough it came up $7.99.  I told her ALL the copies had the regular sticker price on them and there were no signs indicating the sale price but she didn't seem to care.

Way to go and take advantage of a sale Best Buy.  So I guess unless you're a frequent reader of the Best Buy circular you'd have no idea Chinese Democracy was selling for $7.99 now.  Of course this could just be an isolated incident, but I tend to think this isn't the only store failing to recognize or take advantage of the sale price.

Not surprising.

Reminds me of when I went to their store in Hollywood and the latest Will Smith movie at the time was displayed in front of Chinese Democracy.....

The priorities aren't exactly right in my opinion....  :P




/jarmo

Best Buy are morons.

it may just be that best buy. both bb i went to today, had little signs up that said 7.99. & they both had them on the new releases shelf in the front too. & damn do they have alot of  copies of them!!!

Best Buy is just trying to get rid of excess copies.  It is not moving well and hasn't for months.

Zero promotion (from the band) = dead album. 

It sold well under the circumstances but compared to expectations, it tanked.

So true they piss me off for what they did to CD

Sorry, the 6 million figure is a joke. There is no way in hell it has sold close to that. If it had, it would be a huge industry story - like AC/DC's Black Ice for instance.

Face facts, what Lord Kayoss said is true. There is zero buzz for this album anymore, and Best Buy are trying to shift dead stock. I have also seen it in some shops in Europe for 8 or 9 euros (half what it retailed when it came out).

You can't blame record stores for thinking that stockpiling copies of this album would be a wise investment. Like most of the fans, they probably naively expected that the 'monumental promotion' we were told about would actually come to fruition, and that would include singles, videos and touring in order to sustain sales and interest over several months.

And I still don't understand at all why people think 'Best Buy are morons' or that they somehow sabotaged the album's success. Does anyone care to elaborate on that?

Buddy it can't be near 4,000 a week. The lower end albums on the Billboard 200 are near 2-3,000 a week and ChiDem hasn't been on that chart in months. So,no offense but your 4k a week for the last 5 months is way off.

If you log into Billboard you can see the album had sold 2.6 million as of February this year, worldwide (537,000 in the US).
I highly doubt that another 3.4 million has been shifted since then. In fact, I'd be surprised if they're up to 3 million sales overall.

All the same, these are very respectable figures all things considered.

in 6 months it could've moved 120k copies. even if it was just 2 a week that would put it near 600k

Best Buy as a whole may not be morons but the store I went to yesterday certainly was.  If you're running a sale on an album that's EXCLUSIVE to your store, it should be noted in multiple places within the store if not at least at the direct point of purchase.  And the cashiers should be aware of the sale price, not oblivious.  I'll be visiting a few more Best Buys throughout the week on my travels for work to see if there are any other moronic Best Buys here in CT, and I'm sure there are.  But as someone pointed out, some Best Buys have put forth the necessary effort.  So it's not across the board, I just wonder how bad it is.

Me n' Axl disagree with youze two.

The Billboard Q&A: Axl Rose
Billboard February 14, 2009 issue

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=169


As for the Bestbuy employees, I can only speak for myself and in my experiences with them in relation to Chinese Democracy they've been great!!!  (great = enough FREE bestbuy $$$ to be able to buy two sets of the remastered The Replacements cds)  ;D

Yeah but Axl probably doesn't deal with the same level of bby employee regular customers do lol.

What it boils down to is best buy corporate has given the best buy boxes the tools to do very well.

The boxes have varied in their success/commitment/efforts to sell the product.

My SIL works for one.  She says, by and large, the rank and file have been worthless in selling it.  Regional Managers have asked for displays, asked for standees to be erected, etc.  IF it gets done, 2 days later it's been undone...usually by some idiot associate who wants to make more room for the lastest pop princess (or prince).

I thought it was certified Platinum in the states?


Is this just units shipped to BB then?

Platinum is units shipped, not sold

For whatever it's worth, it's not listed on Best Buy's website under the "Shop All Exclusives" link.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat76200050035&type=category

It isn't BB obligation to tour,do press, release a video etc

their job is strictly buying the units and giving them the shelf space.

Granted, but you'd think when they have a sale on something that is exclusive to their store they'd make the customer aware of that within the store.  I went into ANOTHER Best Buy today and yet again there was no indication that it was on sale for $7.99.  They were all tagged $11.99, in their original home under Guns N' Roses.  None were placed in a sales or featured rack.  Yet they had a whole endcap of Michael Jackson.  I'll let that slide since the man died and he's a cultural icon.  But they also had an endcap full of Van Halen CD's to coincide with Chickenfoot's new release. 

How about a little love for Guns N' Roses?  Would it pain them to have an endcap of GNR CD's prominently featuring Chinese Democracy, seeing as how it's a Best Buy exclusive?  I don't get it.  Do they even want to sell copies?  Why put it on sale if you're not going to publicize it within the store?  So far I've gone to 2 Best Buys in CT and both have ignored the fact that it's on sale.

Thats worth nothing in this context

True.

Axl probably only thinks bestbuy is great because he heard that they gave ME all that FREE bestbuy$$$  ;D

People aren't going to suddenly buy a 10 month old album because they see it for sale. Perhaps if they saw the band on TV, or on tour...

Maybe it's not on sale at every location? Best Buy has been scaling back their shelf space for music for awhile now and I'd say they've moved on in regards to CD especially.

I'M Sorry 4 You...

Wait or 31 December 2009...

 :smoking:

It was stated that there were 2.6 million copies sold wordwide (if I'm not wrong) in march, and like 700.000 copies in the U.S.

My guess is CD sold 3.000.000 copies worldwide, in it can double that ammount with one or two videoclips and a tour (things that I personally do not ''need'' at all, all I want is in the physical CD, which I consider it to be the best GNR album and one of the best in rock history)

Be sorry for yourself and your inability to distinguish between real, certified sales figures (2.6 million) and fanboy wet dreams (6 million). No matter how much you worship the band, it won't change the sales figures.

Wait for Dec. 31st? I'm done with waiting on any dates regarding this band that its fans, detractors and representatives pull out of their asses. If something happens with GNR anytime, great, I'll pick it up, buy a ticket, whatever.

The mystique 'something might possibly maybe just possibly could maybe happen on this date but maybe not" shit got old years ago.

I'm glad to see it advertised, but it's also probably the last time.

I'm sure they're disappointed it didn't sell as well as they'd hoped. It's not like they're sitting on a steaming pile of shit, you know? It's a good record!

I don't blame them. Whatever promotion there was came from them, so if they're a little ticked, they have the right to be.

I am beginning to think best buy have this for life.

Usually that is what exclusive means.

Think about it, AC/DC isn't going to be sold at Target or FYE right?

What makes you think they're disappointed in how much it sold so far??  ???

What other "exclusive" did they ever have that sold better??

Gwen Stefani's Sweet Escape? I'm just sayin

I know and it sucks compared to CD

It could be.  The only reason we even discuss when the exclusive is going to end is because the rumor early out of the gates was that it was only a 6 month exclusive.  But I'd lean towards it being a "forever" exclusive too.

An update on my tour of Best Buys in the New England area, while travelling for work.  Today I had to go to Rhode Island and I stopped in a very small Best Buy and FINALLY, a store that had the $7.99 on sale price by the CD's.  Although it was kind of hard to see, I had to investigate closely to find it.  But at least it's SOMETHING.  However, it read that the offer was only good through 8/15, which is this Saturday.  So the 2 stores I went to earlier this week that didn't have the sale price visible will never get around to it by the time the sale period ends I'm sure.

Wasn't best buy supose to clapse??????????

Not that I'm aware of Jdog, could you be thinking of Circuit City, they closed their doors last winter :-\.

Well this is could lead to a few interesting situations, if it is  lifetime exclusive...

What if GNR tours and promotes the album(even a little)? If CD starts to sell BB will have to order more copies, will they?

What if BB goes out of business (trust me, they will), will CD never be sold in the states, or will it be released wide scale?

so fucking awesome... i went to the best buy in hixson tn yesterday, and they had probably a hundred copies of cd on the shelf.  all of them were marked at the super-bargain price of 7.99!  this tells me one thing... they are expecting to sell a shit load of cd's.  otherwise, why fill the shelves like that?  why advertise that amazingly low price?  could this mean that the better video is about to come out?  either that or a major tour is about to happen.  they know there's going to be a gnr storm blowing through that store soon, and they want to get out ahead of it. 

the only thing that sucks is that they had a main aisle towards the front of the cd section where they had "new releases" "top sellers" and "best buy recommends."  for some stupid reason, they put the "greatest hits" of the "old band" in that section, and only had chinese democracy back in the regular aisles.  but it's probably because they wanted to have a hundred copies of cd on the shelf, and didn't want them to overwhelm the whole new release/top sellers/recommends shelf.  but still, they could have at least put as many copies of cd up there as they did of the (pathetic excuse for a) greatest hits collection.

They supposedly bought 1.3 million copies so CD would almost have to double in US sales before BB was buying more copies.

With a tour and promotion they would sell alot quick..

So where are these copies, in all of the stores, in a warehouse??

If 150 stores get wiped right away out because of a tour but others dont, will they order more or will they get them shipped from another store?


If you get them from other stores you run the risk of them being OOS....

Best Buy has big distribution warehouses (there's one where I live) where merchandise goes before being shipped to individual stores. I would guess all these copies are sitting in these warehouses plus what's already in stores.

A few weeks ago it was still like the best selling album at Best Buy (according to their own website), but not charting. So that means State Side it was supposedly selling around or less than one copy a week per a store.


Best Buy ordering more copies of the album presumably wouldn't be a good thing.

i remember hearing best buy was also supose to swim with the fishes but i could be wrong

Please be kidding.

There is no band promotion going on for this album. Best Buy have either realized that there will be no promotion from the band, or their exclusive deal is about to end. Either way, its a fact that they have thousands upon thousands of overstock copies of this album. As there is seemingly no sign of any GNR activity whatsoever at the moment, Best Buy are understandably eager to cut their losses and shift a few of the CDs, hence the discount.

How you can leap to the conclusion that this means GNR world domination or even the Better video are right around the corner is beyond me. If we were really about to be in for some 'monumental promotion', they wouldn't need to half the price of the CDs in order to sell them.

As far as I understood it, Best Buy's exclusivity only expires when they've sold all of the batch that they originally brought.  At this point, it's probably taking up warehouse space that they need for their next exclusive release.

The only problem is this sale only runs through Saturday and 2 out of 3 stores I went into this week didn't even publicize the fact it was on sale.  So that's not exactly an effective way to push units out the door.

 :peace:  that's what the music is for!  i guarantee that once someone hears one of the new songs on the radio, they'll buy the cd.  or probably mulitiple copies. 

Because hearing two songs on the radio in the run up to release did just that... oh, wait... if it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
In an ideal world, great music would sell itself... but this is unfortunately not an ideal world, and having all three parties that should have been putting out all of the stops to promote the record as much as possible in a stand-off yelling that it's someone else's job has practically destroyed the albums chances.  Sales will almost certainly pick up with a video or a tour... but no one seems to be in a hurry to do either of those things, either.  The band, the label and the store have all fucked themselves over by assuming that someone else would do their jobs for them.

Exactly! This has been a giant pissing contest from the beginning.

I was at 2 Best Buy's in Michigan yesterday (due to their online ordering system sucking). I looked at both CD sections and both had tons of copies of Chi Dem with the regular 12.99 price and absolutely no indication of the sale on the CDs themselves or any signage at all.

Ofcourse at one of them, I went to find the hard drive I was purchasing and it was marked 119.99 with no indication at all that it was 89.99 this week. So maybe they're just lazy?

Yeah I think that's the case.  Just some lazy, poorly managed employees at certain stores.  I don't think they're going out of their way to sabotage Chinese Democracy.  I went to my hometown Best Buy today and they had the $7.99 sale price in plain sight, so overall I found 2 stores that played along and 2 that didn't.  Sale ends tomorrow.

The fact is, Best Buy did a fair amount to promote this album. Axl didn't put in a single public appearance.

If people want to point fingers and place blame for the album not selling, Best Buy shouldn't be the first port of call. I'm just glad we got the music. It's not my place to care or be concerned about whether it sells or not. If Axl wanted to get out their and promote it, I'm sure he would have.

Would you be speaking of the single-digit number of commercials or the signs that were on the doors for the first two weeks. Or, excuse me, the picture of Axl in the weekly ads for one week, maybe two weeks tops.

I don't blame only Best Buy but I sure do blame them. Placing pictures of Axl in one weeks ad and leaving the CD out in the middle of the aisle wasn't exactly the "monumental promotion" promised on their part.

true or trying to promote the album in prepration for a new music video or a tour they think they made a mistake i think and are trying not to admit it and thats wrong

It's the stores job to include the album in its in-store displays, stock the album on time, include it in their catalogs and promotional handouts, and sell it for the agreed price.

Is is not the stores job to promote the album. That's the job of the band and the label.

As GNR fans, we owe Best Buy a huge collective THANK YOU for shelling out the cash to make the release of Chinese Democracy possible.  However, it's hard to argue they've handled things swimmingly since the deal was announced.  With or without cooperation from the band (which I agree seems inexcusable) they could've done A LOT MORE.

to whom is 'it' inexcusable?  ???  it's the band's album after all.
the electric shop attracted xmas shoppers with the come-on.

I would be shocked if Best Buy didn't have some sort of lawsuit in the works

if certain things were in the contract that GNR were required to do and didn't, I say that is possible.

and if gnr did what they were required to do or weren't required to do anything in particular in the contract?

Well I do think eventually some sort of push will be made.  Whether it be a tour, a video, public appearances, etc.  That would do nothing but help create some buzz and interest.  That's why it is looking more and more like this exclusive is going to last a lot longer than we originally were led to believe.  I'm sure things haven't exactly gone to plan on any front, but it's still a Best Buy exclusive so whenever something, anything happens they will still be the ones to benefit.

Can you name any band in recent history that didn't make any public appearances to promote its' new album?

Best Buy held up their end of the bargain. You almost NEVER see TV ads promoting a band's new album anymore, but Best Buy did that. It may not have been as frequent as any of us would have liked, but they still did it. They put the release date in their flyers 3-4 weeks before the CD hit, giving people time to pre-order. The CD was at every checkout on November 23rd, as well as at a display near the front of the store.

What did the GN'R camp do to promote the record?

Stop blaming Best Buy. Were it not for them, the CD might still be unreleased.

I agree! People acting like BB is the reason CD is not selling, as well as they think it should,  are just looking for any excuse.  Its very simple , if people want to buy it, they know its at BB, GO GET IT!  Do any of you think not touring, not doing interviews (where you actually talk about what people want to know about THE ALBUM), having no hit singles on the radio, and no videoes, MIGHT just be hurting the cause a little bit? I do a lot of traveling in the car for my job, I hear gnr on the radio every day, its just not nugnr. why?

I don't think anyone is claiming Best Buy is the reason the album hasn't sold as well as expected.  There are obviously many factors that have attributed to that.  But Best Buy IS one of them.  For better or worse.  You can't honestly say Best Buy has done the best possible job they could've done (a Wal Mart type job) with this exclusive.  It's been amateurish at best.

The blame doesn't fall squarely on them, but they definitely are part of the equation.

indeed, i wonder if they just agree to have the exclusivity and the didnt care about promotion from the band, they just assumed that the band was going to do it?. how can you buy 1.3 million copies and dont get a contract to make sure that all parts do their best to sell the cd?

a push for a 10 month old album? the question is...why bother?

There are bands out there pushing THIRTY year old albums...

Maybe this album really was Axl's gift to the fans.

I think everyone who is turning this into a blame game thread, needs to take a step back, a deep breath, and ask:  This 'blame' everyone is throwing around, what is it, really?

The Label, the Band, and Best Buy have people to worry about these things, if they are even worrying...if you've been a fan for more than 5 minutes - you know you can't believe anything you read or hear, and only half of what you see with your own eyes...a front row ticket doesn't mean you're going to see a concert, until Axl walks on stage.  Quit the crying and hypothesizing (or take it to a shit stirring - rumor monger site), enjoy CD, and be thankful that the perfect storm that held up CD, let up long enough for it to drop.  GnR has never been a 'conventional' band, and continues to redefine how things are done...and yes, they have redefined the phrase 'coming soon' - hold the jokes please.

If you really need something to look forward to, there are only about 130 shopping days left until Christmas.  :peace:

If it's cheap enough they will. I don't even like the Ramones but I bought their greatest hits in Walmart just because it was $7. If the price is low enough, some people dip in.

I'll repeat it again, as fans we better care about this band's success.

Do u really think the label are going to spend another 13 million on CD's follow up?

Do u really think another retailer is going to do an exclusive with GNR after this?

If we want GNR to continue, we better be very concerned with the success of the band cause Axl kind of strikes me as somebody who can take it or leave it.

If its more of a headache than its worth, I can see him never doing anything else.

so yeah, it matters how well this stuff does and it is our concern.

Couldn't agree more! 

I hate this attitude that releasing CD was a "miracle" and we should all just be happy that its out.  If it doesn't sell and they won't promote it, they won't be giving money to make such a follow up.

I don't know which fan I find more ridiculous

the one who doesn't care how much the album sells or the one that doesn't care how many people are at a show as long as they get to see it.

to me that is some selfish shit.

If GNR tour and it does bad, guess what? no promoter will want to touch them next time, especially in this economy.

so yes it is always awesome getting a new CD or a tour but as fans, the success of our band matters a lot for future albums and tours.
GNR are too big to do a club tour so its arenas or bust. For tours to happen,they have to have success.

fans caring about the sales for the band's sake is natural.
but fans blaming the band for the sales... is preposterous, like the tail wagging the dog.

It's back up this week but for some reason it's at $11.99 instead of the usual $12.99. Vinyl is still at $20... grr lol

But what if they do nothing to promote it? Shouldn't they share in the blame? Ive always thought of this as a clusterfuck on all sides. Everyone dropped the ball ( label, management, the band). This album had such a huge built in promotion ( notoriety to the point of becoming legendary). A few ads on national television here and there won't do anything to sell albums. Rockband won't help sell albums. They had to get out there and promote. And it's not selling out. This is what artists do. When they have the platform that GNR can get they use it to there advantage. They shouldve promoted this baby hard because I also feel that the leaked tracks killed some of the hype. They had to get out there and make people want to buy this album.

Its is their fault as well.  I am responsible for my products selling. No, I dont personally go out and sell it, we have people who market and take care of things like that.  If gnr's product is not selling as well as expected, than it is their responsibility to make sure the right people are doing what they are supposed to do.

I want the band to be successful, but I don't necessarily want to see them become mainstream again.   I want them to be successful enough to do what they need to do.   And I'm not going to ridicule them when they aren't as successful as I'd like.

No, its warrented. The band....Axl in this case....is somewhat responsible for how the promotional campaign ended up. Its his band, his album, etc. He is ultimately responsible for "selling" it/ reenforcing it to the public when its released. The label gave the band millions of dollars for the "art". Most of those millions were probably wasted along the way. You cant expect the label, after spending millions of dollars, along with the length of time it took Axl to finally release it to be excited about funding a full fledged promotional campaign.

Everyone knows that the labels are only in it for the money. Even more so now then back in the day. But if you take their money in making the album....then you really cant complain later on. Both are to blame.

A tour and a video would help sales. Otherwise it's gonna stay dead.

I disagree. Will a video really help sales? Where can you even find a video on TV anymore? I guess it would help in the sense that it will finally put an official face on the "new gnr"...even though the 2 lead guitarists are gone. Sometimes I think that because of that Axl is really in no rush to do anything big. How can he promote a lineup that is always changing?

So in that sense I think it will help. But I dont think sales will pick up until GNR end the stop and go nonsense and finally get out there for awhile. Meaning tour, videos, interviews, and tv/award show performances. If they do that for a yr or so then they should be able to make a dent in attracting new fans.

I used to really want to see GNR reclaim the rock throne but now I really dont care. That boat has sailed when Bucket and Robin left. As long as Axl releases a few more albums before he calls it quits I will be fine with that. A couple of videos would be nice too.

I always had a hunch that Axl "got it" in regards to his hardcore fan base and the Axl chats only solidified that for me. He knows what we all think,say, and want but its probably just not in the cards. And at this point thats all fine. As long as he continues to make great music like CD and stops by every once in awhile then its all gravy.

I still think u guys underestimate videos.

Just because u may not see it, doesn't mean others won't. If it gets 500 thousand hits on YouTube that is HUGE.

Well, I don't know what kind of TV the rest of you get, but my channel lineup looks like this:

331 - MTV
333 - MTV 2
335 - VH1
339 - FUSE

All 4 play music videos all morning (weekdays).

Lots of rock videos on there, too. RHCP, Metallica, Audioslave, Green Day, etc.

so true im sick of hearing that its all Axls fault well people its not their alot of people in the GN'R work place

I thought Axl = GN'R.

If you want to take all the credit, you've got to take all the blame. Ari Gold would have made it happen.

"Do u really think the label are going to spend another 13 million on CD's follow up?"
No i do not think so.

Answer this follow up question.

Do you honestly think it will take another 13 million to complete CD's follow up?

How the hell does an album cost 13 million anyways!  Loaded made "Sick" for like 20,000! and its awesome!

Reznor does it with NIN.  I can be done....the question is:  Do they (or does Axl) WANT to do it that way.  I suspect not. But it CAN be done.

Read any of the accounts from Brain, Tommy, etc. and you'll quickly realize how this album cost 13 million to make.  Let's not start comparing how much it cost to make other albums.  We're all well aware that the making of Chinese Democracy was "unique" to say the least.

Exactly, I think Axl has made it clear that he doesn't want it to be all about him.  He wants the band to get their just due, especially since the alumni are so well respected in the rock genre.  The new guys deserve that same respect, but I'm sure Robin's departure threw a hitch into whatever plans they may have had.  It's one thing for Buckethead to have left 5 years ago, you could still sell the album with Robin having been in the band for over 10 years and Ron coming in to fill in for Bucket.  But it's a much tougher sell when both the main guitarists on the album are no longer in the band and one of the current guitarists isn't on the album at all and joined months ago.  It's not a favorable situation obviously.  I'm sure there are ways to get it done, but it doesn't appear they've found the right way just yet, or else the timing just isn't right.  At least that's the way it seems to me.

are you kidding me?  I am breaking my rule, I hate the old vs new thing BUT:  How exactly does a new revolving line up deserve the same respect?  The old band EARNED respect. They didnt get it for hanging out with Axl.  THEY toured the hell out of the ALBUMS they released, they had multiple hits on the radio, huge videoes, were always on the cover of rock mags, people knew there names and who they were.  When bands of today talk about the gnr influence, we all know they are talking about Axl, duff, Izzy, and slash, and stephen. You dont just get respect for calling yourself gnr.

True, but NIN is known as a solo band more or less. Axl has been adament about this being a complete  band effort. Obviously its an Axl solo effort at this point but I dont think he would want to promote it that way. Which is partly why I think he has layed low.

The old band and the old new band earned their stripes out on the road and in the studio. The newest  lineup has a lot of catching up to do with two new leads. Its ashame the whole situation ended up like this.

You completely missed my point. 

Let's try it again.  Axl wants the new lineup to be accepted and respected by the public.  He doesn't want people to view GNR as Axl Rose and others.  Along the way some things have happened that have stalled the process.

Of course the current lineup hasn't reached the level of success of the alumni.  But I don't think Axl got a bunch of guys together with the intention of them not getting respect.  And I would assume that's still the plan until the end is declared.

If this is the case then the band needs to be seen by the public in order to be respected by said public.  With the revolving door of 999 players on CD it is and will be viewed as Axl and the band. 

I agree, however this whole process and album hasn't exactly been smooth sailing and I'm quite certain hasn't gone quite as planned.  Axl's original vision was that 2001/02 lineup and that's what most of Chinese Democracy consists of.  I'm sure he didn't plan on Bucket leaving.  But they brought Ron onboard to replace him.  Brain left, again not something Axl probably envisioned.  Frank came in to take his place.  Then Robin fled and just recently DJ has been added to the fold.  So the question is how do you introduce the current lineup properly?  I don't think it's an easy task.  Even if they were on tour and making videos and public appearances, people would be complaining about how it's not even the same band as the one that made CD.  As in a lot of situations, Axl just can't win. 

How surprising to see certain fans think Best Buy and everybody else besides the band did a great job. Business as usual.


"We're GN'R fans and it's always (only) their fault"!  ::)




/jarmo

How about this that everyone involved in the CD launch has done a rather shoddy job ....

I fail to see how that attitude is any different than the band doing nothing and blaming everyone else.

The band probably knows a whole lot more about what goes on than you or I do.


If they want to blame somebody/something, they probably have a good reason to.




/jarmo

That doesn't stop the fact that Best Buy got HOSED. They undoubtedly paid for this album which is the exclusive of exclusives to be on par with Walmart's efforts. In turn they received a couple of weak TV commercials, no band support (press, intereviews, appearances), no tour, no video, etc, etc. Regardless of what ANYBODY says about what "we don't know" the way this release was treated for Best Buy and the fans was beyond pathetic. Sorry Jarmo, my fanboyism and optimism has to stop sometime. I love the album, love the band, will see them when (or rather if) they tour but I can't defend them for sticking Best Buy with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of albums they now have to take a hit on.

They got an exclusive album. And how did they sell it? They put a cardboard display in the stores for maybe a week.

Sometimes, like in West Hollywood, CA, it was behind their display of the latest non-exclusive Will Smith DVD.....

 :confused:


I wonder if they're currently displaying Michael Jackson cds in good locations throughout their stores....

Not a new release or an exclusive.



/jarmo

They are displaying Michael Jackson CD's on endcaps in the music section.  That and Chickenfoot/Van Halen.  You'd think they'd replace the VH with GNR since Chinese Democracy is their exclusive.  But no.

Also, I'll agree that I'm sure Best Buy didn't expect things to unfold quite like they have when they came to terms for the exclusive.  In fact I don't think Axl, GNR, or anyone expected things to happen as they have.  But they have.  And Best Buy still has exclusive rights, so if and when things start happening they'll still be able to reap whatever benefits are to be had.

I know it got old for me vary fast most likly I think that some of the people working for GN'R (Im not saying its any of the band members) must either be incompatint, Best Buy barely promoted CD so they get some blame to, and finaly I think Dr. Peper should have some blame to they barely did any coms about their deal I dont care what the Dr. said they didnt fufill their promise their sever prob could only hold 10,000 people and they were just trying to use GN'R not with this story as much in America but to the rest of the world

if there are 2 things I think a good amout of Americans (since I am American I think I can say this) hate and should have no reason to is soccer, (football) and the new GN'R :peace:

I got mine.  I don't care who else buys it.


It would have been interesting to see the band actually do something though.  I'm just not excited how many copies it sells and clearly the band aren't either.

Axl even said that "best buy have been great" so don't blame them.  It definitly isnt Dr Peppers fault.
Its probably a combination of the band and band management. 

Don't think anyone really cares anymore though.  Just be happy if you have the CD  : ok:

True but being an American I dont like the way a lot of people over hear treat Axl and I thought when people first heard CD that would change but people here dont even know what CD is man people in America seem to have little taste in Rock music anymore I blame Rap music

Of course Axl thinks Best Buy has been great, they shelled out the cash.  They've been fantastic in that respect.  As far as their in store treatment of Chinese Democracy, that has been much less than fantastic.  I won't even mention promotion because I realize that's a shared responsibility which neither side has really done much with.

It is a shared responsibility.  Best Buy is where I buy 95% of my music. I am not really sure what some of you think they should have done? It was handeled like all other albums they sell. What were they supposed to do?  Have an employee at the door asking everyone if they wanted to buy a copy?  Its Axl's CD, if he doenst want to promo it by touring and doing interviews, what is a store supposed to do? It was in their flier. If people wanted it, they would buy it.

What could they have done?  How about making it easier to find?  I had to ask someone where to find the album the morning the album came out.  I've heard many other stories about other people having difficulty finding the album.  I went to several stores after the release day, and frankly, their placement of the album was questionable.  I found it astonishing they didn't put the album in a location where people would have to see it, like at the front of the store.  I also noticed several stores that did not have the album near the check-out stands to encourage an impulse buy.  Why not play the album in the store as well?  All simple things that Best Buy could have, but did not do

Of course, the majority of the blame for the lack of sales, if you want to assess blame for that, rest with Axl.  He has done virtually nothing to promote the record.  But, Best Buy could have definitely handled the release better.  There is no doubt about that.

Ali

Easier to find?  Its under G for Guns and Roses?  I was actually in Chicago the day it came out, I stopped in the 1st BB i found and had no problem at all.  More than CD was released that day, and it was with all the others, PLUS  a whole end cap dedicated to it

So CD didn't sell as well as everyone would have liked. Do you honestly think its placement in the store was a big factor in that? C'mon now

and BestBuy only has been the exclusive deal within USA, all other countries didnt have that.

When someone has to ask an employee where the album is, it is not easy to find.  I'm hardly the only person to express this.  Rollingstone actually did a piece mentioning this.  (http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/12/18/why-black-ice-beat-chinese-democracy-the-tale-of-wal-mart-vs-best-buy/)  And, I never said this happened at ALL stores.  It seemed to be the case at several stores I went to.  And I don't live in Chicago.

And, yes, product placement in stores makes a difference in terms of sales at a store.  Stores like IKEA are masters of generating an impulse buy by putting thing near the check-out stand.  There is a reason why a lot of stores do that.

That is not the same as saying the placement of the album in Best Buys (even if there was a unified strategy across all outlets), was an overriding reason for the lack of sales.  As I said before, the blame rests mainly with Axl for not promoting the record.



Ali

Nobody's blaming Best Buy for the lackluster sales.  Just pointing out the plain and simple fact that they handled their first (and probably last) major exclusive extremely poorly.  Simple as that, let's not read too far into things now.

yea and in that case, what do you care? why do you care about the sales? is that your business?  you aren't from best buy or the label, are you?

I was really getting sick of reading the blame game, negativity BS, and wanted to throw my opinion into the mix...and then I had an epiphany:  In '87 GnR didn't do any groundbreaking, earthshattering marketing.  There were very few who 'got' the band, and it was like our own personal band of sorts...then MTV picked up video, and everyone finally saw what we liked.  We were 'in' (not as in as the Sunset Strip fans, but hopefully you get the point) on the ground floor of something special.  Fast forward to today...a large number of fans seem wrapped around the axle (not axl) wanting everyone else to still love what we do.  They were not rabid GnR fans, and moved on with the tides of the music industry.  The fact is, when you look at the big sellers of today, I don't think anything on CD is going to win those people over.  Obviously there was curiosity about GnR & CD by the record breaking number of downloads from MySpace...but nothing caught fire.  I know many of you are emotionally invested in this, and want 'your' band to succeed - well they did.  They sold a shitload of records.  And they will continue to, as long as Axl is making music.  Will that success look like 1987 all over again?  I don't think it ever could - too much has changed.  But we still have 'our' band, and a great album in CD.   Isn't that enough to make you happy?   I can't wait to see what comes next!  :peace:

Its not 1987 anymore and if Axl cared about having a hit album, he'd have got out there to sell it.

Anyone who blames the hard-working people at Best Buy who have several other products, lines, issues and matters to worry about other than GN'F'N'Egos is an idiot and should be ashamed of themselves for thinking their beloved band, who failed to put one single solitary appearance as a unit in to the promotion of what we're told was a collaborative effort over the course of 15+ years, are so infallible and were somehow 'screwed over' by people who made every reasonable effort to shift their product.

It's a fucking joke. Some of you people make me sick to be honest. You'd blame anyone for anything as long as it didn't mean you had to accept that precious godlike Axl might actually be a normal human being. somehow less than flawless, and actually in some way accountable for his own successes and failures.

Perish the fucking thought.

Thank you Ali a little more promotion would have helped to from Best Buy but the past is history we need to think about the future

Here in Canada, the Best Buy I went to really went above and beyond instore promotion for the record.

As soon as you walked into the store, massive displays were in every concievable department with 100s if not 1000s of copies at the ready.

Even at the checkout counter they had displays set up. Sure these displays had the old school Gn'R logo like inside the Appetite' booklet, but it was still cool to see that eventhough the album was not a Best Buy exclusive in Canada, they still made a tremendous effort to make it more than apparent that CD had indeed been released that fine November day.

I don't know if this was just a Canadian thing, but most of the copies of CD came with 2 free drink coasters.

HMV made a fairly big push for the album too and had huge posters in their windows saying THE WAIT IS OVER...CHINESE DEMOCRACY...IN STORES 11/23/08.

Well in America after the loyal fans got the album and about 2 weeks went by their was nothing about CD but that's just from what I have seen

Hammer has met head of nail.  It is 2009 - GnR selling 1.5 million albums isn't 'failure' by anybodys standards, except the fans who want CD to sell 6 mil and top the charts.

To assign 'blame' is pointless.  If the Band, label, or BB were up in arms over 'lackluster' sales, I am sure more qualified people would be reminding everyone who was to blame...the fact is at this point we 'fans' are crying over an empty casket.  This seems to happen every time there is a break in official info.  This album is a great album, but it apparently is not for everyone...that doesn't make me enjoy it any less.  I am sure GnR has plenty more surprises left for us, and I look forward to them.  : ok: