Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Guns N? Roses Uploader Gets House Arrest, Will Make Anti-Piracy Ad

July 14, 2009

A Los Angeles man who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of uploading pre-release Guns N? Roses tracks was handed one year probation and two months? home confinement Tuesday after agreeing to cooperate with the Recording Industry Association of America to produce an anti-piracy message.

Kevin Cogill was arrested last summer at gunpoint and charged with uploading nine tracks of the Chinese Democracy album to his music site ? antiquiet.com. The album, which cost millions and took 17 years to complete, was released in November and reached No. 3 in the charts.

Cogill faced a maximum of a year in prison. The authorities, however, originally were demanding six months, claiming the amount of infringement equaled $371,000. The higher the number, the longer the potential prison term.

According to court documents, after Cogill agreed to help produce an anti-piracy public service address with the RIAA, the government withdrew the $371,000 figure and agreed not to fine him. Los Angeles federal authorities in March said the figure was a ?reasonable estimate? that gave the defendant the ?benefit of the doubt.? The calculations, the government said, were based on each downloaded Guns N? Roses track being worth 99 cents on iTunes.

As part of the 28-year-old Cogill?s guilty plea in December, he informed the authorities that he received the music online and unsolicited ? a confession prosecutors said might pave the way for more ?targets? to be prosecuted.

Cogill uploaded nine songs from the 14-track album on June 18, 2008. Court records show he confessed to the FBI. The case was cracked by an investigator with the RIAA.

In March, the RIAA said it believed the infringement amounted to $2.2 million. (.pdf) The record labels said it would accept $30,000, instead of $2.2 million, if Cogill ?was willing to participate in a public service announcement designed to educate the public that music piracy is illegal.?

Prosecutor Kevin Missakian said in a telephone interview that the public address will either be a radio or television message of ?Kevin talking about the importance of protecting copyright holders? rights in their songs and movies.?

Missakian added that the government was ?satisfied? with the sentence, but ?the government had asked for some jail time in hopes of sending a stronger message.?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/guns-n-roses-uploader-gets-home-sentence-agrees-to-produce-riaa-anti-piracy-message/

It's encouraging to see the court system of U.S of A managing something reasonable and rational this time around.
...I was half expecting some typical "You were naughty so we decided to ruin your life, 300.000$$$ fine lolz" - bullshit.

I'm glad the guiy didn't get away with it.

I'm okay with that but he has to say GNR in the add.  Free publicity for the band.

But on the other hand maybe he shouldn't mention GNR, you know more negative publicity.

Which to chose? 

Double edge sword there.

From Billboard....

He said in court Tuesday that he posted the tracks to promote the band, not hurt it.

A federal prosecutor had asked a judge to sentence Cogill to some prison time, but U.S. Magistrate Judge Paul Abrams said he felt Cogill had learned his lesson.

A lot of other people who brought the U.S. economy in a downward spiral should have been put in jail for a long time! The judge made the right call in this situation. Justice has been served and it's good to see that the guy will not owe money or spend jail time.

now see when leaks happen again ,you should think more .don't go there you might be nextt   lololololol '

I think he should've got the electric chair.

ye now hes the bad guy and he deserves to die, but when the songs leaked he was a hero.

the guy did more to promote gnr than axl himself. bad publicity for the band.

He tried to promote himself

fuck that guy

I have no problems with leaks

but don't try to use something of someone elses to try and makes yourself infamous or what not and then try to act like some martyr or some shit.

This guy should've been somebody's prag for a year or two.

I don't know, the guy had to plead guilty because he didn't have the money to fight them.  Innocent until proved guilty is a myth.  In some ways we are no better with justice than countries where they can just come and take you away.  It's true, their funds are unlimited and yours are, legal battles cost big bucks.  Many people go down just because the can't afford the legal bill.

I'm sure there were some legal issues here that never came to the table.  They tried establishing legal presedence with this case and the judge shot them down with a light sentence.  They may have won the battle but they lost the war. 

Still, my advice to any one thinking a years probation ain't shit, it cost that guy more of his own money than he ever wanted to spend.

Whatever dude,

Anyone here who wants to attack this guy has every right so long as they themselves didn't download the songs. 

Before you publicly ridicule this guy, state first whether you had either heard or downloaded these leaks. 

I'm betting no one here can make such a claim.

In the end, does it really matter.  It appears at this point in time that all parties involved (Guns N' Roses, Axl Rose, Geffen, Best Buy, Azoff) have washed their hands of Chinese Democracy.  While I believe that artists have the right to say when and how their art gets distributed, in this case I think the leaks actually helped more than they hurt.

If you want to blame someone for the lackluster sales of Chinese Democracy, this guy would not be at the top of the list, not even close.

Cheers,

Andrew

 :beer: You hit it on the nail exactly!

God Dam man even the FBI were after him thats fucking crazy shit and arresting him at gunpoint holy fuck thats just insane stuff!!!!

I never heard the leaks or downloaded the songs I bought the album but from what people told me the leaks sounded terible compared to the finished album so no regreats on waiting for the album but in the end I think this guy got what was comming to him and that is you dont FUCK WITH GN'R THEY WILL FUCK YOU UP WITH THE GOVERMENT!!!

I can honestly say I am not guilty of downloading, cuz I don't know how :no:.  So guess Jdog and myself are NOT GUILTY.  I on the oth er hand, heard some of the songs at RIR  and at other concerts on the 06 tour in which myself and plenty of others here paid to see.

I think Keven Cogill got what he had coming, no matter what his reasoning was for his crime, it wasn't his job to do according to the ways of the law here in the US under any circumstance.  It does not matter how many of you think he was just helping to promote an album, I don't believe he was hired by the band to be their promoter and especially when the album hadn't even been released.  He's a dumb ass, douche bag and that is putting it mildly, he got less than he had coming, they should have made him apologize to Axl and company, or maybe it would have even been better if they had let Axl himself have his hand in regards to the punishment :yes: :yes:.  maybe a little "Get in the ring" with Axl, hee hee.

From Kevin Cogill's Twitter.  The first post is interesting...smart guy.

no word on a civil suit. i still haven't revealed the source of the leak, but i might if they come after me for more.

the court has the right to do either of those things. only issue is with bracelet: i have to pay for it. but otherwise cool. ha.

it's not even house arrest. it's a lite version... and hasn't started yet. no worries.

celebrations will have to wait, i gotta catch up on work today.

thanks. no, it just means i check in and behave myself. lighter than house arrest. not sure on details yet. nin's still on.

it's not house arrest. but otherwise cool. RT: @dnord @wired is the first to cover @skwerl's sentencing:

probation, 1 year. first 2 months i'll be under supervision martha stewart style. no fines, no restitution, no jail.

http://twitter.com/skwerl

the court's decision sounds merciful and proper but he's not really willing to send an anti-piracy message, is he?

Here is what he said regarding that...

@skwerl Will you really appear in a RIAA ad saying piracy is bad?

@bombou i will insist that what i talk about pertains only to what i actually did. in a nutshell, leaking, not piracy.

And this on the source of the leak...

no word on a civil suit. i still haven't revealed the source of the leak, but i might if they come after me for more.

they definitely don't want me explaining who was ultimately responsible.

Apparently, this guy told Rollingstone he leaked the songs to "promote" the band.

I am glad the guy didn't have his life ruined by something as trivial as song leaks, but for him to say that he leaked the songs to promote the band is complete bullshit.  If he cared about GN'R promotion and not promotion for himself, he would not have leaked them in such a way that made it obvious that he was the one who leaked the songs.  He was trying to draw attention to himself.  If that were not the case, he would have found a way to leak the songs more anonymously.

Ali

He did it to promote his own website, not the band.

It is a personal opinion, but I think the sentence is ridiculous.

Wow. Haven't heard from you in a while!

On topic; I believe that whoever says they didn't hear tracks from this album before it was release is flat out lying.

What should he have got?

If he was an actual reporter or from a big blog website and did this he probably would have being free and clear.  He could have put them online as news worthy rather then how he did.

With that said I agree with the judge on this case.  Regardless of the reason behind the leak he did post stolen property and they need to crack down on that.  At the same time some questions need to be asked about why the leak happened.

From what I have seen in the entertainment industry certain people in authority like to treat assistants etc like shit.  That may have worked 15-20 years ago but now it is just as easy to say fuck you and leak shit.

I have herd from multiple bands saying that as soon as an album reaches Walmart it is leaked online.  Not really a shock considering how poorly they treat their employees.  


At the end of the day the reason the album didn't sell was because of no promotion or tour.  That should have all being setup way before.  I am not blaming Axl or anyone in GnR.  Maybe it was their fault maybe it was the studio.  Maybe Axl wanted to do a large scale production and the label said no.  

However when you have people in the U.S. loosing jobs, homes left and right.  Then you see posted on ITUNES 6 billions songs sold.  On top of that you see how much money the top acts are making which is starting at 20 million and going up from that point it is hard to feel sorry for artists or the record labels.  

It is not the fans fault that the labels fucked over bands for years and the only way bands could make some major cash was to tour and sell merch.  Now people are spending less on the actual music but ticket prices have gone up to triple the price in 10 years for many of these bands.  So the bands are making record profits and the labels in some cases are getting the short end of the stick.  However that short stick is the labels fault not the bands.  If the labels had operated as partners with bands instead of dictators maybe they would still be making huge profits.  

True and he wouldnt be in the shit storm he is in now.

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to my original comment.  I said nothing about the leaking of songs being right or wrong, whether it hurt or helped the band.

I just think his explanation for why he did it is complete bullshit.  He did it to promote himself, his own website.  And because of that, he got himself in a world of trouble, as Jdog said.

Ali

I apologize, I wasn't responding to you. I was more responding to the fact that I hadn't seen Mysteron post in a while. My original intent was just to post that I don't believe that there's one person on any of these forums that didn't hear these before official release. Not meant to be connected to your post other than the Mysteron quote.

I think though there are some peple here that have downloaded it on that site and just wont admit it that are here and I wouldnt be suprised if some of them where here with us on this thread.

GUNS N' ROSES Uploader Apologizes To AXL ROSE, Slams SLASH - July 15, 2009

The Los Angeles man who was sentenced to a year of probation (including two months of modified house arrest) for uploading pre-release GUNS N' ROSES tracks told MTV News that he was offended by the comments former GN'R guitarist Slash made about him. "A friend of mine conducted an interview with Slash last year in which he called me a thief and wished that I 'rot in jail,'" Kevin Cogill said. "I found that surprisingly crass, especially considering the guy has made no bones about shoplifting cassette tapes with the same rationale as today's downloaders. So if he wants to see me in jail, I'll see him in the cafeteria."

Cogill (pictured below) told MTV News that he carries a great deal of remorse for what he did, though he never intended any harm to Axl Rose ? he was just a fan who was excited about a band he loved. "I've come to respect the artists' right to determine how their art is released," he said. "I do apologize to Axl for that disrespect. As a fan who had lost faith in all of the promises of release, I didn't see too many other options at the time. But in a fair world, it's not my place to judge, let alone act."

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=123670

Well as I previously stated, I don't believe there's one person out there who didn't hear these tunes before they were officially released.

He doesn't sound too remorseful in his Twitter posts.

My issue isn't with him leaking the songs

My issue is when someone tries to turn that into some kind of self fame or some shit and then act like some sort of internet community crusader and like some type of martyr or what not.

Leak the songs fine, don't try to get all famous and act like u are important or some shit cause of it.

My biggest problem with it is the grandstanding that goes on. I laugh pretty hard when I see people damning this guy and saying he got what he deserved and so on when you know damn well they downloaded and listened to songs before release.

Of Course

I don't want him to go to jail for leaking songs, I want him to go to jail for trying to profit and get famous himself off of it.

I think that's pathetic.

If u want to leak songs to give something to the fanbase.

Fine

But don't act use it to try and get known and then act like some type of hero when u get busted.

But he didn't charge people for them did he??



Anyway, I guess it's good that he apologised. And if you think about it, there are much more evil people in the world than this guy. ;)

Some people around here are having a hard time that the album didn't sell as well as they thought it would.  It looks like those people are taking out their dissatisfaction out on this guy then looking at their icons. 

Normally, I wouldn't be an advocate to those who take it upon themselves to release material to the public that isn't there's to release.  That said, what the leaks did was remind the public that there was actually something there; that an album was coming.  If you're all aware of the game Duke Nukem Forever, you'll know that it's been in production just for long as Chinese Democracy was.  The company making the game went bust, and out of that pictures were released.  It actually got me excited and sad that I won't be able to play the game. 

I'm of the opinion that the leaks did the same.  It would have been one thing had this been 1999 and the release of CD was imminent.  But it definitely reminded the public that GNR was real, that there was substance coming and something to be excited about.

If anything killed sales, I'd look to the whole album being available on myspace three days before its release.

Cheers,

Andrew

I think when the guy speaks "professionally" he's damn good.  GNR needs to hire him for PR.

Bringing up Slash stealing cassette tapes is a fair point...I wonder if music piracy became something to 'rot in jail' for right around the time that Slash became a successful musician? I expect he'll be turning himself over to the authorities any day now.  ;)

The sentence seems reasonable to me. It's about deterring him and others who may do the same, not about mindless retribution.


Indeed. The leaks and the press that came as a result was probably some of the most potent publicity that the album had - not that that's saying much.

Thats cus hes a dick who wanted 10 mins of fame and is trying to keep it going!!!!

yea. Seemingly he's laughing up his sleeves. nice guy. :no:

but this is more pathetic.


why and why riaa? what were they doing when gnr was after the source. :no:

I hope he gets the civil suit cus he so is asking for it when hes was fucking around with the GN'R name!!!!

What's the point of giving this guy house arrest? That's just going to give him more time at the computer posting stuff he shouldn't. They should put him on "camping arrest" or "excercise arrest" and get him out and doing something productive with his life.

Lame that they even gave him this sentence. The whole thing smells of corporate bullshit.

Music speaks for itself these days. If it's good, we buy. If it's bad, we don't. More onus on the artists to do better and more creative work if they want our hard earned cash. All music should be free anyway, the money is in the performance.

AC

I don't see any 'remorse' in his statements AFTER he was let off the hook...I see a guy that is trying to cash in on his newfound notoriety.   An overzelous fan trying to promote the band?  Who would believe that if they saw his threat about someone stealing the songs and posting them...or the "I told you so" attitude he had at first?   He seems to be taunting GnR, with his "they definately don't want me explaining who was ultimately responsible".   Maybe it was a former manager, maybe robin...could be a squirrel that lives in Axl's gutter, the tooth fairy??? Axl himself???  The suspense is killing me...not.  Cogill was wrong, end of story, lets put this guy back in the box, where he belongs.

I think he's implying that someone at the record company or management office was responsible for the leak and they created their own problem in some way. Just my take on it.

I know hes such a mitherfucking dick that just wanted to get something out of CD taking so long to come to the people!!!

When u own a website, u can charge prime dollar for ad space if u have a certain amount of traffic. Using CD to gain that traffic to his website was an attempt to make it more famous and therefore get more hits and more potential revenue.

also to get his 15 minutes of fame all on the blood,sweat and tears of GNR.

I know I said that too!!!

He used to work for the record company and not for the management office. so, I think the label suspect.

I think you lost that bet.



As I've pointed out in the past, his actions hurt the band. He, and others like him, has no right to decide when GN'R should release music.



I don't understand what kind of "fans" see these guys as heroes. They fuck things up for the artists.

The same artists the fans supposedly love.

I understand the fact that all of us love to listen to GN'R's music. But I wish people would try to see the bigger picture instead of being so selfish.

It seems to me the attitude is "as long as I get to hear more leaks I don't care if the band is against it or not".





/jarmo

Who?s ultimately responsible?lol  Do you think if the FBI wanted to know that, they?d be unable to figure that out without him telling them?  Maybe I?ve just been playing in the dirt too long but it smells of set up to me.  Kevin, darling, looks to me like you?re a patsy.  You were set up for an example, who better that one of those GNR fans who?s been waiting years for the savior of rock n roll?

Is it so impossible to think that this whole thing was set up to scare people and we?ve all been had?  Impossible to think the FBI could be part of it?  Paranoia runs deep but it will keep your ass alive?lol  But you better not have those thoughts and if you do you better not say that out loud. 

On the other hand, there?s been people talking and the mighty have been falling down.  It?s fucking embarrassing that the people who are trusted with taking care of us are screwing us over and just a little agitating that they get away with it.  I think Kevin is ultimately responsible to bring this all out in the open and we?ll see who gets knocked down.  I may be paranoid but I?ll be damn if you?re going to get away with fucking with me!  Never assume I want to play the game, especially your way. 

(eer, that last little had nothing to do with any GNR games I'm involved in.  I was thinking of of something at work but you know it happens every where.)

Really?  Because only two people have responded thus far in this thread saying that they didn't download the leaks, and one because they didn't know how. 

Did you hear the leaks Jarmo?  And if not, was it because you received advanced previews from the band itself (since before the album Axl loved to play his music to anyone he was close with). 

I still think that 98% of the people who frequent GNR message boards downloaded the leaks, the other two are either lying or don't know how.  Anyone who actually downloaded the songs is in no position to cast judgment.  I'm not arguing whether what Cogill did was legal or even moral, but whether anyone who actually participated in the dissemination is in any position to cast stones.

So Jarmo, if you do respond to my post, please answer the questions I pose to you first.  I'd be interested to know if you had ever heard 'Prostitute' before November 23rd, when the album was released.

Cheers,

Andrew

Imagination. Ain't it great.

I didn't listen to the 2008 leaks because I figured I had heard enough leaks already, and didn't want my enjoyment of the actual album get ruined by some attention seekers.

The "it's easy for you not to listen to the leaks because you have the album" or "Axl played you all the songs" stories are a bit amusing though.

It goes hand in hand with the idea that reality often isn't as exciting as fiction.





Only the piano part played live in 2006 and 2007.

And for that I was extremely happy on November 23rd, 2008 when I got to hear the full song as it as intended to be heard on the actual release.



Sorry to have burst your bubble.







/jarmo

I don't know if people just aren't seeing this or what


I have no problem with the actual leak. So, I am not trying to sound like a hypocrite here cause i DL the leaks but yet I am attacking this guy

I am not attacking him for leaking the songs, I am attacking him for trying to prosper and get "famous" for leaking the songs and for trying to act like he is some GNR/internet martyr/crusader.


Its the same way I feel about tribute bands. If u want to share incredible music with fellow fans, that is fine, but don't try to make yourself bigger than the music and try to gain notoriety by doing it.

Really?  I had that shit on my ipod no more than 10 minutes after that dude posted them on his site.  I didn't have to download it from his site, because another fan downloaded them and emailed them to me before I even got a chance to go on his site.  Those leaks spread like wild fire!  

I can honest ly say as before I didnt want to listen to CD till Axl had officaly finished it becouse I had a feeling the leaks wouldnt be good and its not fair to our GN'R I think the people who did listen to the leaks are wrong but theres nothing I can do about it and no one else here can either so stop living in the past and more of the future and the next time someone has leaks to your favorate band that you love report them instead of listening to it next time I will report the site if they try that shit again!!!

Is the commercial going to air on television?

I dont see why not the fucking FBI went after him I think it will be on TV.

I don't think you would have seen the hero worshiping that took place if at the time of the leaks people knew the album was coming out.  Fans were excited because many didn't think CD would ever come out. 

As for it hurting established artists...that is very debatable.  ACDC for examples was the number one stolen album of 2008 and it has sold over 8 million copies.  I agree that it does hurt bands that are on small labels.  Don't get me wrong I am not for or promoting downloading music illegally off the web.  Only that record companies want to blame everything on illegal downloads.  While it is a factor it is only one of many.

CD did not sell because there was ZERO promotion.  There was no Music video, no press tour, and no tour for the fans.  I am not blaming Axl or GnR for this.  I haver ZERO idea of why there was no promotion nor does it matter.  It comes down to if you don't promote the product the product will not sell. 

D- I usually agree with you ,but you can't possibly think this guy was trying to make money off of the leaks. He knew with certainty the tracks would be pulled and that increased traffic from the few wacky,hardcore GNR message board fans was not going to be enough for his site to all of a sudden become a cash cow. If anything ,to make money he could have sold the tracks to that elite,subculture of GNR hoarders who are still out there.

Anyone who thinks he should serve jail time needs to examine their priorities. US jails are overcrowded as it is and now you wanna put a guy in jail for leaking songs? Wow.

I think that the most interesting part of the story will be when we find out who he got the tracks from.

It was Baz.

(http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/1/3/0/2/16592031-16592034-slarge.jpg)

isn't it like me saying it was smfs?

Still think it's from the record company. The guy has pretty much danced around saying that in everything I've read. Could be part of the problem behind Axl's current rift with them.

Maybe orginally, but not directly to him.... If they did he would have sung like a bird to the FBI... The FBI would not be able to hold a case against him if the leaks came from the record company...

I think he's got friends there on the inside and didn't want to rat. Just my theory.

If so he must have had a good reason for not blowing them in, considering what he was facing!