Print Page - Home schooling.

Title: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 09:40:20 PM

Okay, I just figured I'd toss it out there. Any thoughts?

My knee-jerk gut reaction is that it's not ideal for kids. It's tough to miss out on the social component that can't be re-created at home. That said, does anybody here have any experience with home schooling? Does anybody here know anybody who was home schooled??

We are seriously considering this option for our 2 young 'ns. Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: loretian on April 22, 2009, 09:43:19 PM

I was home schooled for my first year or two, then I went to public school. I think there are certainly real benefits to home schooling, but you are right, there is a social aspect of life that must be learned later in life because of it. There are benefits too; many place too high of a priority on social ability, and home schooling can help refocus the priority on learning and improving oneself in meaningful and important ways.

I don't have much more to add, just wanted to throw in my small two cents and say that I think homeschooling can be a good thing.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: $$$$ on April 22, 2009, 10:04:08 PM

Ive met quite a few home schooled kids and honestly they are all...... shall we say "unique"

put your kids in school or they will become socially lost.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: D on April 22, 2009, 10:24:02 PM

I personally wouldn't do it.

I just think if u can afford to send your child to a good school, they will learn from people who are trained to teach, plus the experience and social interactions and life lessons learned can't be underestimated.

home school seems a bit sheltered for my tastes. I'm sure some have had great experiences with it,but I would never do it.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Smoking Guns on April 22, 2009, 11:00:29 PM

In theory, I am against it.... BUT, school is fucked up these days. Drugs, gangs, rapes, sex on the school bus, pressure to "fit in", columbine, lack of education in public school, and more pressure seems to make it more and more dangerous for our youth. For the most part, Pot was as bad as it got when I was in HS. We had some rednecks, but no real gangs. We had some pregnant chics, but who doesn't. But it seems like so much has changed since I left HS. We didn't have cops in the hall then. People didn't blow people up at school. Everyone wasn't texting 24-7, we didn't even really have cell phones that weren't the size of a backpack and didn't cost $3.00 per minute to use. I would say send your kid to private school, but drugs and cliques are even WORSE there. However, the education is MUCH better along with the discipline.

I say beat your kids so they won't piss their life away and pray they don't get killed at school. There is still a lot of good that comes from going to regular school. Just seems like the little shits today are too damn spoiled.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

Alright, here's the scenario. (and before I forget to add this, thanks for the feedback folks!)
The little guy is incredibly advanced. In his 2's he was repeating verbatim, stories that we read to him weeks earlier...and now, these weren't Hop on Pop stories, they were Thomas the Train stories that went about 5 or 6 stories in a 60 page book...with multi-syllabic words. It shocked the shit out of me one day. It was while he was playing with the engines...and I mean verbatim! Not one word missed!
Fast forward to now. He's a very advanced reader who enjoys science books, Garfield books, between a 3rd and 4th grade reading level. He is in Kindergarten...guess what they cover in school? Sight words. GO. WE. HIM. The teacher tried giving a couple extra projects...but she doesn't have the time to cover chapter books with him. It's very frustrating. In math, they count to 20...and he's doing addition, subtraction, etc.

His behavior is amazing. He follows all the rules...but he did mention being angry when all they were doing was counting. "I know how to do that." He doesn't voice this in class, he's not a boisterous kid. He's nothing like his dad! :) Seriously, what do they do in class? They color and they do "worksheets." It is very frustrating.

D, I'm sure you might think my boy's "unique" already, and he hasn't been homeschooled, unless you consider that his environment at home has fostered a love of learning. It's crazy, when he reads it, he has learned it...and he doesn't forget it. He loves it!

We are looking into what the area schools have to offer...it's tough though. The district we live in has a talented and gifted program that begins in 3rd grade, BUT, it consists of meeting once a week for 4 months, after school, and it's not part of the school's curriculum. So...it seems like there's 8 hours of socialization/reviewing shit I learned when I was 5 at home, and a couple extra projects a month after school. ...as opposed to a curriculum that actually challenges him on a daily basis and allows him to learn at a pace that is best for him.

I never, ever, ever thought I'd be leaning toward home schooling my kids...but that's where we are right now. My wife will be meeting with his teacher tomorrow...we're still feeling things out.

May I also add one more thing. One big red flag about the home schooling is that the local home schooling "networks" seem to be flooded with religious extremists. Ya know, the ones who don't want their kids taught evolution, sex ed., etc. Grrr, right now, there just doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

The more feedback from you folks the better! Thanks again. :peace:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: GNRreunioneventually on April 22, 2009, 11:13:29 PM

don't do it

i don't know about the rest of you, but my encounters with home schooled kids haven't been good ones. When i was in 5 or 6 grade i remember there were these 3 boys that lived up the street from me. one was my age and the others were young but anyway me and this girl that used to hang out all the time and this home schooled kid were jackin' around one day and the subject of reading came up and all of a sudden he got real quiet. The kid couldn't read and he was about the same age as i. Most likely it wasn't all his fault (even though he was dumb as fuck) but more his parents (they were even more dumb as fuck).

another case, i work with one. Even though he exits while i show up ya just can't talk to him like you would other kids that age. given he's about 15 i think, he has no sence of humor at all and he's a nark which i hate.

So of course i'm going don't home school your kids or else they'll grow up to be a mix between butters, mr slave, and that ginger kid on south park

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: GNRreunioneventually on April 22, 2009, 11:17:20 PM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

if your kid is that smart congrats secondly, even though i'm just a senior in high school, i think i'd pull him out of that school immediatly or else the stupid will get to him and he'll be normal. put him in one of those smart schools or something like that. That is if its not gonna cost you an arm a leg and part of your penis. and if it does well then to keep him learning something get him those rosetastone tapes that teach you new languages. Given that he seems really smart from what you say get him manderin (sp?) or chinese or something like that, translaters in the business world make it pretty good.
:peace:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on April 23, 2009, 12:04:42 AM

My best friend went to public school until about 3rd grade, then her parents home-schooled her until 10th grade, and then put her back in public school. She had to take some freshman level classes to catch up when she returned to public school because she was very behind credit wise. Luckily for her, she is very smart and was able to catch up and even graduate in the top ten percent of her class.

She hated being home-schooled, mainly because of the social activities she never got to be a part of. She missed out on ever getting to be in the band, cheer, UIL, sports, FFA... the list goes on. It was too late for her to pick up and join things once she came back because where we are from, back then, teams and other groups pretty much got started in jr. high, and remained basically the same through high school. She is 35 years old, and still feels a little cheated over it.

The world was a different place back then, though. From what I understand, home-schooled kids today have all kinds of activities offered to them, so maybe it wouldn't be so bad. As far as education itself goes, if you're gonna do it, you have to do it right. My friend's mom didn't exactly stick to a set curriculum or schedule. It was just too easy to sleep in and not worry about it. The teachers in a public school are going to know methods that parents may not, but then, you can't always count on them to use them. So, you would really need to do all you can to educate yourself or whoever would be doing the teaching in more than just the subject areas.

I teach in a public school, and my kids both go to public school, and it is an entirely different world than when I was a student. There are a lot more bad influences out there, and your kids will absolutely be exposed to a lot of stuff you probably wish they wouldn't, but I have to say, at least it creates the opportunity for communication between parents and their kids. If you stay involved, and do all you can to stay on top of what's going on with your kids, they are gonna have a much better chance of being well-rounded, well-behaved adults one day coming out of public school. They are going to experience the "bad" things one day, regardless of schooling. My friend was lucky enough to come back to public school early enough to experience those things and learn how to handle them before she went to college. If she hadn't, I can promise you, she would have gone wild on her own.

So basically, I think either way could work if it is done right. You just have to figure out which way you can handle.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: norway on April 23, 2009, 06:38:46 AM

Depends on family-situation. If we were living more in tribes it would work better. There's private schools too.

I'm more down with a as good public school as possible atm tho. :peace:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Albert S Miller on April 23, 2009, 09:31:26 AM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

Have you thought about at least advancing your child to the next grade level, rather than bore him with what he has already learned? My own girls were passed kinder when they started as well, seeking all of their reading and early math skills at home, daycare/preschool even offered small amounts of foreign language (French) mostly, so they were definately ready for more of a challenge by kinder, they still needed to advance in the world of social skills and so on, all of the rest was just a review for them.

As far as the dangers in school are concerned as of today, me feelings are that we have to teach our children how to live in the world as it is today, dangerous or not, they have to learn to deal, to live in it safely, not be sheltered or withdrawn from society, as there are still alot of great and safe things that do still exist over and above all the turmoil we face. This education for my children came from home, and started as early as they were able to understand the ways of the world, as I have mentioned before, I feel we owe ourselves a pat on the back, they have grown into smart, respectful young ladies, who never fell into the traumas of the public school bullshit that is so abundant as we know it today.

Good luck with the choices you end up making Axl4prez, each household is obviously different and what works for one may not be good for another and so on. As a parent you are obviously on the right track though!! :) :)

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Mal Brossard on April 23, 2009, 10:29:16 AM

I've known a few home schooled kids. Some were perfectly normal, others were completely fucked. It varies depending on the parents really. Two of them were good friends of mine in high school-- one was pretty well rounded, good with computers and just went into the Navy this month to work with communications and some other computer-related things. The other was good with languages (spoke fluent French and is living in Paris now), history, literature, bad with math and only about average in science. Some others I knew were extremely backward socially and in dealing with non-parental authority. My church group took a trip to Boston and he seriously tried to go off on his own around the city-- he was 13 at the time. When we were on the USS Constitution, he actually got yelled at by one of the personnel on board because he decided to go climbing on stuff that had "do not enter" signs on it. Basically, he thought all the rules were for everyone except him. His two younger brothers were the same way. So really, I think a lot of it comes down to the parent educators more than anything.

My advice: go for it, or as a second option look into some private schools. While the drugs and cliques can be a problem, the education is far better. I went to private schools my whole life. I was pretty well accepted by all the cliques, though didn't exactly fit perfectly into any of them. Drugs and drinking were a problem, but I just never got involved in them. If money is a problem, many offer financial aid programs. My school for Pre-K through 8th grade did not (it came out to $6,000 a year), but the high school I went to did ($17,000 a year, we paid about $5,000). Most are need-based, some are merit-based as well.

I was slightly advanced as a youngster-- not quite as far along as your kid appears to be-- but for the three or so of us who were advanced in my kindergarten class, they had a tutor work with us on some advanced things for about an hour one day a week so that we didn't get bored doing what everyone else was doing that we already knew.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: lynn1961 on April 23, 2009, 11:59:33 AM

Axl4Prez,

It's too bad that you couldn't find a nearby school which actually taught children at their own
"comprehension" levels rather than by age levels. There has to be schools that do that - the trouble is finding one.

As for home schooled kids, it really is about the parenting and the home environment. Many home-schooled kids I've known have been very well-rounded, great kids. I could definitely see where those who are being home-schooled because of religious extremist reasons might be sheltered from everything and therefore end up being socially inept. Again, it's all about environment.

I have heard of where, in certain areas where there's enough children being home-schooled they routinely get together for "class" trips and may even have enough kids to form sports teams etc.

Hopefully you will have more answers after your wife meets with his teacher - maybe the teacher or the school will be able to come up with a reasonable solution. Maybe just advancing him up a grade level or two might help, although then you have to consider whether he's ready emotionally to fit in with an entire classroom of kids who might be at the same education level but may be more advanced in other ways just because of their age (a 5 yr old in a class with 8 yr olds might set him up for being teased).

I wish you luck! Let us know what happens!

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: D on April 23, 2009, 04:01:02 PM

U definitely need to send him to some type of private school IMO.

Don't waste his gifts. School can be very hard for gifted children because it becomes boring and when a kid isn't being challenged, sometimes it is easy for them to lose interest. So I'd make sure his mind stays challenged even if you do a home school hybrid thing.

I would get him involved with music lessons also just to further develop his brain.

your kid has a very bright future and I say do whatever necessary to make sure that his full potential gets unlocked.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Bodhi on April 23, 2009, 06:46:58 PM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 09:40:20 PM

it depends what kind of school you send your kids to...If it is possible to afford a good private school then go for it,I think that is the best option. As far as public schools go, they are pretty useless, and only getting worse. The teachers don't give a shit about anything except their summers off, benefits and snow days. The education at a public school(if you can call it that) is going to be pretty weak. However, the social interaction is very important. So I would be willing to have them get a weaker education at a public school just to get the social interaction..Remember you can always teach your kids the things that public school teachers fail to teach them. Have your kids read some history books, do some math problems etc...

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: D on April 23, 2009, 06:49:36 PM

I do know Prez that the YMCA and other community places have activities for home schooled children to make up for the social deficiencies.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Drew on April 23, 2009, 07:07:39 PM

Home schooling can be a lot better off for your child if you and your wife are willing to put forth the full effort. Private school would be just as good, plus he gets the benefits of being around other children. Anything is better than a government school system. PERIOD!

Do it Axl4Prez2004! : ok:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: mrlee on April 23, 2009, 07:12:31 PM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 09:40:20 PM

Theyd probably be smarter from it, if you properly enforced it.

However, theyd miss out on the social skills developed, and the learning curve of what life and people can be like.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: AtariLegend on April 23, 2009, 08:29:22 PM

I can't speak about the best way to raise kids, since I don't have any.

..But I know I wasn't going to learn more about life from one person at home even if their Steven Hawking, than I did from experiencing the world myself which included school, involving interacting with people.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on April 23, 2009, 11:05:48 PM

If you do opt for public school, check out that Gifted and Talented program. My daughter is in the one here, and it's awesome. It really provides a good outlet for students that would otherwise get bored, or those that need more creative experiences. They take trips, and have a special class in the morning about three times a week. They also get to go to a competition called Odyssey of the Mind, which is incredible. It has been wonderful for my daughter, and makes her very excited about school. They work with other advanced kids that are in the same grade, so you don't have to worry about problems with fitting in that may come with advancing a grade.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Layne Staley's Sunglasses on April 23, 2009, 11:57:02 PM

I went to a private school up until around the end of fourth grade. Even that wasn't enough. My mom would always teach me new things during vacation and I was always ahead. A school can offer the finest education, but parents really need to be involved every step of the way.

Home schooling would completely ruin your child. I've never met a normal person that came out of the home-school system.

If you can't find a private school, send your boy to a public school. He won't be socially inverted, and you guys will still offer him help and guidance when it comes to homework. There are so many ways outside of school to help expand your child's mind and education.

Going to a public school was the best thing that could happen to me. Private schools contain downright nasty kids.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 24, 2009, 12:10:15 AM

kmorgan- the t.a.g. program where we live begins in 3rd grade. It's basically a group of kids who meet once a week for four months after school.

This is quite frustrating. We are genuinely torn. I appreciate all the feedback.

lynn1961, in our school district, grade skipping is not allowed and early entrance into Kindergarten (when our daughter who is also advanced at three gets there) is not allowed.

More bad news today when my wife met with my son's Kindergarten teacher today...my wife was very cool about things. She never used subjective labels such as "gifted," obviously that would seem presumptuous...she just brought in books he not only reads, but understands as well. He is a VORACIOUS reader. He was reading books about space last week and you could wake him up right now and he'll tell you how many moons every planet has (or doesn't have ;))

Before the teacher came in, my wife was in the classroom with our 5 and 3 year old. On the chalkboard, there's a whole list of math problems like "1 + 7" up there. (apparently they are called "math manipulatives" where there are blocks on the kids' desks, and they are expected to use the blocks to figure out the answer. My wife asked our son if he knew the answers to those, (she knew he did) and he said yes. (of course he knows it, he doesn't need blocks to count. He counts by 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's...10's, etc.)

Before thinking it through thoroughly, I liked the idea of supplementing my child's education at home too Bodhi...but why waste the f'ing time at school? He is reading at a 3rd to 4th grade level(and by the end of Kindergarten who the hell knows where he'll be, his reading skills already include multi-syllabic words and his comprehension is through the roof, his spelling is phenomenal, and his math skills are quite advanced) So now, for me to "supplement" at home, instead of being able to pursue interests outside of school, the kid will be doing more school after school? In between "busy work" homework that teaches him nothing? All so I can get him even more overprepared for his next year of school??

So, send him to school to get bored out of his fucking mind? They do not cluster advanced children in 1st grade. All they do is make sure there is at least one bright kid in each classroom. Get this shit, special needs children with learning disabilities have a 5 to 1 teacher to student ratio. How about the special needs of gifted children?? Why do we as a society cater to the academically challenged and refuse to provide resources that challenge the gifted?

Drew, yes, it pisses me off and this trying to make everybody the same pisses me off. It's as if they want the smartest kids to bring up the kids with learning problems. Let's slow down the kids who are learning too fast so little Jimmy over there doesn't feel less smart. It's bullshit. Grrrr! :rant:

btw, we are not pushy parents. we are not the kinds of parents who make their kids do flashcards or require studying or reading or any of that shit. We have provided an environment since birth that has very little television, and many, many books read to the kids. They enjoy reading by themselves after they get their picks to be read to. Every night for at least 30 minutes they have piles of books on their beds that they choose and read by themselves. (no, my 3 year old isn't reading them, but, she is in her own 3 year old way) It's great. We play games together. I ask questions that are thought-provoking and he does the same in return.

I am a parent that wants them to continue their self-motivated ways. I really believe they can be stifled by shitty schools. Unfortunately, the private options around here aren't any better. About 40 minutes away, there's a good private school...for Elementary school, not even high school, it's $12,500/year per student. I can't afford $25,000/year for 12 years...unfortunately, I am not wealthy...I'm not poor, but that's just out of my league.

Sorry to drone on. I'm just angry and confused right now. We are looking into every option possible.

btw, D, thanks for the suggestions. About the music lessons. As parents, we are extremely low pressure parents. We truly believe in letting the kids make their own decisions about what activities they'd like to pursue. We've had as Christmas or birthday presents some low-end musical instruments, and he hasn't gravitated towards them.

Again, sorry to drone on...I'll keep ya'll posted. Never in a million years did I ever consider home schooling to be a realistic option. My wife and I went to public schools (in NY state) and had great experiences. In Delaware the taxes are low as hell...and ya know what? Ya get what ya pay for. Sad but true. :'(

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Layne Staley's Sunglasses on April 24, 2009, 01:24:25 AM

I don't know about your job situation or anything like that, but have you considered moving to an area with better schools?

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: lynn1961 on April 24, 2009, 02:09:32 AM

Quote from: Ellen Degeneres' Breath on April 23, 2009, 11:57:02 PM

Home schooling would completely ruin your child. I've never met a normal person that came out of the home-school system.

See, I don't agree with that. Axl4Prez, I think that if you feel your son would do better by being home-schooled then go for it. I have known kids who have been home-schooled who are great kids - not ruined. I still say it depends on how the parent handles it. I think that if you opted for home schooling, then you also need to ensure that your son is also involved in outside activities. D made a good point, too, about keeping them active and involved. There's all kinds of things, from little league to music lessons to whatever. Keep him involved in outside activities, as well, where he's able to interact with other children.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: GeorgeSteele on April 24, 2009, 09:56:20 AM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 24, 2009, 12:10:15 AM

In Delaware the taxes are low as hell...and ya know what? Ya get what ya pay for. Sad but true. :'(

Commie!

On that note, maybe you can organize the parents of other gifted children to make noise and put pressure on the school board to build a program that challenges kids like your son. If that doesn't work, retain the services of the local mafia. They'll arrange a sitdown with the school officials and make them an offer they can't refuse.

Seriously, that is a tough predicament, no easy solutions, but I'm definitely not a fan of home schooling. Here in NYC, thankfully, they have advanced programs, for which we applied for our daughter. She starts kindegarten in September. It would be very embarassing if she doesn't get in, especially since I cheated and took the exam for her.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: nightprowler1166 on April 24, 2009, 10:45:34 PM

Why would you want to keep the child(ren) home with you all day? I find it comforting to know that my 14, 16 and 18 year old are on lock-down for 7 hrs a day. They get in way more trouble at home anyway.

Send them to school & let them learn to live on their own. Isn't that the goal anyway?

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on April 24, 2009, 11:07:18 PM

So, send him to school to get bored out of his fucking mind? They do not cluster advanced children in 1st grade. All they do is make sure there is at least one bright kid in each classroom. Get this shit, special needs children with learning disabilities have a 5 to 1 teacher to student ratio. How about the special needs of gifted children?? Why do we as a society cater to the academically challenged and refuse to provide resources that challenge the gifted?

Drew, yes, it pisses me off and this trying to make everybody the same pisses me off. It's as if they want the smartest kids to bring up the kids with learning problems. Let's slow down the kids who are learning too fast so little Jimmy over there doesn't feel less smart. It's bullshit. Grrrr! :rant:

[/quote]

I totally agree with this. It is very hard on the teachers, too. We do realize that we have kids stuck in classes that they do not belong in, and it's so frustrating. In my regular courses, I have juniors in high school reading on a 2nd grade level mixed with students I'm trying to prepare for college. How do you teach them all at once??? It's a very tough situation.

I hate that the school there doesn't start the gifted program earlier. It used to be that way here, too, but fortunately for our daughter, they changed the policy right before she started school.

It sounds to me like you guys would be the kind of parents that could make homeschooling work. Maybe it would be something ya'll should consider until your child gets older. Once he gets in highschool, he could always go and take advantage of the advanced placement and dual credit courses.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: nightprowler1166 on April 25, 2009, 07:31:20 AM

Are we assuming that gifted and smart have the same meaning? By definition they don't. And yes, send them to school to be bored out of their fucking mind. They need to learn the social skills, even if they have to sit in a classroom with 1 or 2 "special" kids. In the real world they will have to cope with the idiots so they may as well start learning now. I hate to think of some child being raised in a bubble without a clue as to what the real world is like. It's a jungle out there baby......

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 26, 2009, 10:51:59 AM

Since some of this has gone off on a tangent, I don't mind going off myself.
I have always detested the clumping together of kids who are actually in school to learn with the kids who have no business being in the same classroom, let alone the same school.

kmorgan, there is absolutely no reason you should be put in the situation of having to teach kids on such vastly different skill levels. How on earth kids are passed along to high school unable to read at a 9th grade level is beyond me. I always place the greatest amount of blame on the parents. btw, both groups of children are being shafted in your school district. The kids at the top aren't being challenged, and the kids who are at a 2nd grade level, belong in classes where that skill level is the focus...and it also sounds like those kids may have special education needs that need to be addressed.

nightprowler says it's a great thing to send a kid into a classroom for their entire school career to review things they learned years ago. That sounds brilliant. ::) btw, your post assumes children don't learn social skills when they are out of school...seriously? ...and yes, for what it's worth, gifted kids are special needs children by definition. Unfortunately, schools don't always remember that fact.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: freedom78 on April 27, 2009, 01:17:22 AM

First, let me state this...OF COURSE you should home school...it just shouldn't be a substitute for REGULAR school. Education isn't a 9 to 4 activity, and kids are greedy for knowledge (maybe not always long division and whatnot, but knowledge of the world, how it works, social interaction, etc.). The kids that do best will not only get a strong education IN the classroom but OUT of it. You're a good enough parent to care, so I know this isn't an issue with you. But it never hurts to reinforce the obvious. And one of those "obvious" things is that there are things you can't teach your kids. They can't learn everything from an adult. They need to interact, to experience each other, to know that it sucks when someone takes your crayons so you don't take theirs, and so on. As a parent, you're a source of authority, so there's a limit to how they'll interact with you...a limit that isn't in place with other kids.

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

He doesn't voice this in class, he's not a boisterous kid. He's nothing like his dad! :) Seriously, what do they do in class? They color and they do "worksheets." It is very frustrating.

D, I'm sure you might think my boy's "unique" already, and he hasn't been homeschooled, unless you consider that his environment at home has fostered a love of learning. It's crazy, when he reads it, he has learned it...and he doesn't forget it. He loves it!

We are looking into what the area schools have to offer...it's tough though. The district we live in has a talented and gifted program that begins in 3rd grade, BUT, it consists of meeting once a week for 4 months, after school, and it's not part of the school's curriculum. So...it seems like there's 8 hours of socialization/reviewing shit I learned when I was 5 at home, and a couple extra projects a month after school. ...as opposed to a curriculum that actually challenges him on a daily basis and allows him to learn at a pace that is best for him.

I never, ever, ever thought I'd be leaning toward home schooling my kids...but that's where we are right now. My wife will be meeting with his teacher tomorrow...we're still feeling things out.

May I also add one more thing. One big red flag about the home schooling is that the local home schooling "networks" seem to be flooded with religious extremists. Ya know, the ones who don't want their kids taught evolution, sex ed., etc. Grrr, right now, there just doesn't seem to be a perfect solution.

The more feedback from you folks the better! Thanks again. :peace:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 27, 2009, 07:38:56 PM

Quote from: freedom78 on April 27, 2009, 01:17:22 AM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

Worksheets are a byproduct of treating teachers like crap, to be honest. You treat a job with little respect, pay 'em poorly, and you get poor applicants who don't try. But it's also because most of them don't know any better. To be honest, if your kid is intelligent he'll be just fine anyway. It's the struggling ones who tend to get lost in our current teaching methods.

Ya see Freedom, his Kindergarten teacher's actually well put together! My concern however, is with the notion that since he's intelligent he'll be just fine anyway. No doubt Freedom. My concern is that the entire year will consist of information he already knows. It angers me to think he'll be sitting in classrooms where spelling tests take 5 minutes to complete for him and 20 minutes for many of the other children. Dude, seriously, he has "homework" assignments like write the numbers 1 to 30. Write your name 5 times. Practice your "sight words." (examples including, "out," "of," etc.) It would be like me asking you to do 4th grade material over and over. He's reading rock classification books...astronomy books...along with many others covering extremely broad areas all chosen by him at the library...he's fascinated by million/billion/trillion/...and yes, quadrillions. Numbers are very interesting. Why are "math manipulatives" needed (beads, or checkers to count up like a very young child might do on their fingers) when the child knows the answer by figuring it out on the blackboard in their head???

I suggest you look for a school that uses a constructivist approach. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NVC/is_1-2_27/ai_n15389278/?tag=content;col1

It's a highly successful way of educating children, it does away with any of the "dumb kid class/smart kid class" nonsense by asking teachers to go beyond worksheets and to help students construct their own knowledge.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, or just a plain old elitist dick...who am I kidding, I'm both! :hihi: but look at what kmorgan posted earlier about having to teach (in the same classroom) one group who has a 2nd grade level of reading, with kids who are trying to prepare for college. I don't care what teaching style is used, the teacher's being set up to fail in that situation. My son's knowledge-base is many grade levels ahead of where he is right now...add to that, his ability to absorb information at a much more rapid pace makes it likely his advanced skills will expand the current gap in the near-future setting him up for trying times in non-challenging classes.
I do agree with you to a certain extent on the "dumb-smart" thing. There are many kids out there with the potential to learn amazing things, but have lived in/through awful upbringings prior to school. So, while you may have a child who appears to be "dumb," he or she could actually be brilliant, but never had the opportunity to exhibit these talents. On the flip side, you may have a child of fairly average intelligence who happened to be raised in an incredible environment who, if placed in an advanced academic setting might be out of their league and suffer for the mistaken placement.
All that said, I do believe the educational system has a "lowest common denominator" problem. We teach classes with exhaustive energy placed on making sure the children on the lower side of the i.q. curves don't fall behind, while we figure the intelligent kids will be "just fine" regurgitating information they already learned years ago.

For example, I can tell you how to add, and you can replicate, but you don't really understand so much as you're repeating a process...under a constructivist approach the teacher is engaging the students to explain their thought processes as they learn. It's not "here's how you do it", so much as "tell me what you did". This is probably a mediocre explanation, but suffice it to say that schools using this method regularly outperform other schools. A public school teaching like this would be far better than a private school, where the teachers are often paid WORSE (believe it or not) than at public schools, they're spending time to (often) cover religious dogma, and they aren't (in many states) held to any standards.

Freedom, totally agree, and yes, that's how my house would look if you saw us on a reality tv program. We have never and will never use flip cards or note cards as teaching tools at home. Our kids love...and I mean LOVE books. Don't get me wrong, we have a lot of fun playing in the sprinkler, playing games, etc. One thing is for certain, our tv is on for about 30 minutes/day at the most, and often isn't on. The kids are in bed by 7, but storytime lasts upwards of 45 minutes, and after that, they read in bed for another hour or two independently. (our 3 year old nods off before our 5 year old typically)
...and yes, the facts you pointed out between private and public are true. ...and yeah, the religious dogma thing is sickening to me and my wife. We both have no issues with religion, but to us, it's a personal matter.
Thanks again everybody for all the great posts.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: freedom78 on April 27, 2009, 07:56:25 PM

^there's no "perfect" solution, unfortunately. The key is to make public schools as good as they can be, but teachers need to be taught, too. I want a solution that is truly an equal one. If home schooling or private schools were perfect alternatives, they'd still be completely unavailable to many (most) families (private school, especially).

And I really pity kmorgan having that issue, as by the point of high school it's a MUCH harder problem to fix. As much as I believe in not separating out kids in grade school, it seems perfectly natural to do in high school, as they'll be pursuing distinct interests and so forth, not to mention that it's easier to say "geometry then algebra, then trig, then algebra II, then calc" at that level than it is to say how kids are doing in grade school. Unfortunately, most of the "stupid" kids are likely not stupid at all...they just aren't reached by the method that others are.

It's kind of like sex (yeah, that's right, I'm perving up the home school thread! ya wanna fight about it?). Different positions work for different people, and we know that, but imagine if we decided one position was GENERALLY best, and that's all we (umm...not "we" as in me and Axl4Prez) did. Well, for some it would be wonderful, others would get by, and some would never get off! I don't know why we treat education like that. "What little Timmy? You don't understand waht we just covered? Oh, well you must be retarded, then. Off to the dumb room with ya!" Over the last two years I've grown quite supportive of these constructivist methods. They DO require a lot of teachers, but if you're truly in it for the rewards (and not because it was your fall back major after law school aspirations didn't pan out) of teaching, then it's well worth it. Seriously...look around and see if you have a school in the area that does this. Sometimes public schools will let you ship your kid out of district for some sort of "tuition". And your kids won't come home talking about how God put fossils in rocks, to test our faith. :hihi:

I'll totally teach your kids Social Studies, with a heavy emphasis on civic duty. Send 'em out in a few weeks. I'll take 'em to the track after the 500 to pick up and recycle millions of beer cans. :rofl:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: D on April 27, 2009, 10:15:57 PM

Yeah I definitely agree Freedom 100 percent.

I know people that can barely read but are absolute geniuses with their hands and can build and fix and do anything.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 28, 2009, 05:50:11 PM

Here's a little personal update. Yes, we're still reading (there's so much stuff out there)...but we think we may have somewhat of a plan. Our neighbor who happens to work in our school district, gave us a contact person to explain the situation. From there, we can set up the formal testing through the school district. Once that is established, we can evaluate things with the school district.

Now, we live very close to the school district's border, and in this state their is school choice. Apparently, the neighboring school district has a different philosophy...and yes, it tiers children (we're not certain when they start tiering), and offers a lot more A.P. courses in high school. Our neighbor who happens to be a school psychologist in our district, explained that our district basically has 2 tiers: general and special ed. She qualified this by stating the general curriculum is quite rigorous...but honestly, I have my doubts. We've got some research ahead of us...but for now, I'm comfortable knowing the option of school isn't out the window. I am shocked my district doesn't tier to include an Honors curriculum.

Home schooling sounded tempting...on-line professors would have included:
Social Studies: Mr. Freedom78
Sports Wagering 101: Professor D
Scandinavian Racial Purity: Mr. Norway
Home Building & Repair: Senor Smoking Guns
Faith: Mr. Loretian
Atheism: Professor TAP
Female Empowerment: Ms. Bandita
yes, quite an eclectic home schooling curriculum...but I think my boy's ready! :D

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: D on April 29, 2009, 12:39:21 AM

Your son would be a 1st grade Parlay master after my class.

How does home school work anyhow?

I always thought if u taught your child, wouldn't u have to be like a master of the subject?

I am pretty damn smart in school, but I couldn't teach someone Calculus.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: freedom78 on April 29, 2009, 12:44:22 AM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on April 28, 2009, 05:50:11 PM

Sports Wagering 101: Professor D

Don't know about that. I pick a mean exacta box.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: CheapJon on April 29, 2009, 12:55:46 PM

Quote from: D on April 29, 2009, 12:39:21 AM

I am pretty damn smart in school, but I couldn't teach someone Calculus.

just because someone is smart doesn't make that person a good teacher, pedagogy is so much more then knowledge

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 30, 2009, 06:32:32 PM

Quote from: D on April 29, 2009, 12:39:21 AM

"Where's the little guy honey?"

"Oh, he's on a field trip right now."

"Really? It's 10:00 at night! What the hell?"

"Professor D has the kids out at the racetrack tonight."

"Oh." (I shake my head and start to doubt this homeschooling thing.)

(son returns home after winning a trifecta! "Maybe this wasn't such a bad idea after all." :)

In all seriousness, if you think your teachers were all masters of their respective subjects, you may have a surprise waiting for you. ;) That said, D, I loved Calculus. My pre-calc. teacher oughtta be flogged for her shitty teaching, but Calculus itself rocked. :peace:

btw, things as I pointed out in my last post, are looking better for public school. The neighboring district seems to recognize and challenge the needs of gifted kids.

Cheapjon makes a great point. My pre-calc teacher back in high school was a genius...but couldn't teach her way out of a paper bag.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: nightprowler1166 on May 02, 2009, 09:42:16 AM

Question - how does the high school kid who reads at a 2nd grade level get through grade 3-9 without anybody ever doing anything to rectify that fact? How does this kid keep passing from grade to grade? That's a sad thing but, unfortunately, does happen. I think parents and teachers both have some responsibility here. Thoughts?

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Albert S Miller on May 02, 2009, 10:58:17 AM

Quote from: nightprowler1166 on May 02, 2009, 09:42:16 AM

If the kid is reading at a 2nd grade level in the 9th grade, would you even call the kids parents "parents"? My first clue would be they don't care :(.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: freedom78 on May 02, 2009, 11:37:41 AM

Quote from: msaxl43 on May 02, 2009, 10:58:17 AM

Quote from: nightprowler1166 on May 02, 2009, 09:42:16 AM

If the kid is reading at a 2nd grade level in the 9th grade, would you even call the kids parents "parents"? My first clue would be they don't care :(.

Or he could have a learning disability of some sort.

More likely he didn't get it early on and they just gave up on him.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on May 03, 2009, 11:18:50 PM

He does have a learning disability due to the fact that his mom was a severe drug addict while pregnant with him. He has always been in special education classes which is why he has been passed from grade to grade, but now we have inclusion... the reason he's in regular education classes. He does have modifications that I have to make on his assignments, note taking, tests... everything. (Yes, I have to make various versions of EVERYTHING we do.) He's being cheated, and the kids in the class with him are being cheated as well. We also have parents that don't want their children to be considered "special ed", so they take them out of the program. Usually, these kids were put in special education for a good reason, and they need the modifications, but once they are out, it is awful. I still modify in my classroom for these students because I know they need it, but when it comes to state testing, they are forced to take the real thing, and it keeps many of them from graduating on time.

I won't even pretend that kids without learning disablities don't get passed along, usually because teachers are tired of dealing with that particular student, and it pisses me off. I do all I can to avoid that practice, but as a mere classroom teacher, I am often overruled. I have been told by my principal when discussing a girl that NEVER comes to class that, "we don't want her next year." So, instead of just letting her repeat her senior year, and teaching her that we are not giving up, so she shouldn't either, she will be put on a computer that will teach her a year's worth of English Literature in about two weeks. (Yeah, right...) I have expressed my opinion on this, but it is a losing battle. My principal knows that if she fails, she will not come back and then be considered a drop out, which will affect our school's funding. It sometimes feels like a no win situation.

Luckily, every once in a while, something wonderful happens that makes it all worth it.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on May 04, 2009, 06:02:46 PM

May I say I find it incredibly refreshing that there are teachers out there that enjoy GNR! :beer:

and yes, the shit they are throwing at you kmorgan is complete bullshit. It's such a shame.

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on May 04, 2009, 10:30:57 PM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on May 04, 2009, 06:02:46 PM

May I say I find it incredibly refreshing that there are teachers out there that enjoy GNR! :beer:

and yes, the shit they are throwing at you kmorgan is complete bullshit. It's such a shame.

I often make my kids listen to GnR when they are coming into class. Gotta have a little fun to counteract the bullshit!!!

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on June 23, 2009, 11:20:22 PM

I just thought I'd give a shout-out/update on our final choice of schooling for our little one. We've chosen private. While I believe we are better equipped than 99.9% of households to succeed with home schooling, we believe when compared with the opportunities available at a local private school, for our son, this is the best choice.

Sure, who wants to be saddled with the high cost of private when public is free...but...did I mention the state of Delaware's public schools are now not teaching cursive writing to students? The public school system in this state is a fucking joke. You often get what you pay for. DE's taxes are low...teacher compensation is low...smart teachers go elsewhere. Don't even get me started talking about teachers and administrators telling you, "don't worry! he'll be fine! he's so smart he won't have anything to worry about..." Yeah, other than being bored out of his fucking skull.

"Special" education, "special needs" kids aren't all developmentally delayed. "Special ed." is necessary for kids with advanced skills beyond their years. Teaching to the lowest common denominator is a joke.

Thanks to all for chiming in on this. It's very important to me. :peace:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: kmorgan on June 24, 2009, 12:06:19 AM

Congrats on your decision. It's tough being a parent! Just know you're child does have an upper hand just by having parents that worry about this kind of thing! I wish all of the kids that I teach had parents that showed half as much concern and enthusiasm when it comes to education.

Not teaching cursive writing? Wow...

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: freedom78 on June 24, 2009, 12:21:59 AM

Quote from: Axl4Prez2004 on June 23, 2009, 11:20:22 PM

Hope it all works out wonderfully!

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on June 25, 2009, 06:21:03 PM

Quote from: Bank of America's Bankruptcy Papers on June 24, 2009, 03:26:26 AM

You have made the right decision my child.

Now, go off and find the key in Nantucket.

Sorry, I don't get the reference...please enlighten me. :confused:

Title: Re: Home schooling.
Post by: crazycheryl on June 26, 2009, 01:58:19 PM

Good for you! DE is really sad. Fortunately, we moved when my kids were young and based our decision on where to move based on the schools. We made sure they offered advanced programs and not just once a week classes but a regular curriculum. My older daughter is not advanced but at the normal level with some extra help actually. But my little one seems to be more advanced. What they do at our school is test them before placing them in classes and the kids that test at a higher level are put with certain teachers for math, reading ,etc. They switch teachers even in first grade so advanced kids get the most out of their experience. So, maybe a kid might be average in reading but advanced in math, they get the right stimulation.

Now, I'm not crazy about where we live - it's not a bad area or anything - its actually very woodsy - if it were my choice we would be in the city. But for a good education in the city, you have to pay and it's like $15000 a year now. And we definitely cannot afford that. So, we basically decided to live where we could receive the best educational experience for our children. Small price to pay. Too bad you guys couldn't do something similar. It would be nice to save the money spent on private school for college.

Your son sounds fantastic!

Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Off Topic => The Jungle => Topic started by: Axl4Prez2004 on April 22, 2009, 09:40:20 PM