Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This subject comes up often, but I'm not talking about medicinal marijuana. I'm talking about decriminalization and taxation of pot nationwide. There would be benefits and negatives to this, of course.
But how many people who have tried it are afraid of what might happen, should it ever be legalized?
 
The Boston Herald had a good article about this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/2009_03_29_Joint_resolution:_Taxing_pot_just_makes_cents/srvc=home&position=3

Yes, not because I believe in it passionately but because I see it as so fucking pointless to send people to jail for something so harmless.

yes, but people should adhere to the same rules of not smoking in public places where second hand smoke can be inhaled.

I listened to an interesting discussion the other day, and the speaker was quick to point out "de-criminalization" is different than "legalization."  If you de-criminalize it, he explained, the cops can still enforce the law and confiscate it, but there would be no arrest made or fine imposed. 

Personally, I have never used marijuana.  That said, I don't understand jailing people for possession of a drug.  It makes no sense.  Now, if that person committed a real crime that hurt someone other than themselves, arrest the bastard. 

I forgot.

I don't smoke it but yes it should.

The only reason it isn't legal is because the govt has no way to control it and the pharmaceutical companies will never let it happen.

In a nut shell yes.

MA decriminalized it, but there is a fine of $100 for anything less than 1 oz. (no arrest)

Exactly... it would either need to be controlled by the ATF or FDA. If it became prescription only then the decriminalization of less than an ounce in states like MA would have to go away for non prescription holders. Also doctors would have to be held to a higher standard when prescribing than the current system in CA, which for lack of a better description gives you a membership card to a hash bar... that would be like my doctor giving me a balnket prescription for pain killers and allowing me to choose from Codine, Oxycontin (mine and Rush Limbaugh's drug of choice  ;), and everything in between.

If it were handled by the ATF and taxed, that would be a never win battle because how would you distinguish between marijuana purchased at a convienience store and marijuana brought in illegaly across the border (or domestic)?
Also how would driving be handled? Is there an accurate test that can prove current level of THC similar to a blood alcohol level?

Yes

I used to smoke a lot of weed.  Overall, I really don't think it's that big of a deal, but there are definitely negatives to it.  While my friends would constantly get high, eventually I started to get pretty paranoid and I just couldn't handle it.  So I've completely stopped, but meanwhile, my friends continue to smoke non-stop and have no issues.  The ironic thing is that most of them are teachers.  The worst one of all is regularly nominated as one o the best teachers in his high school.

My view on drug legalization is that it's a bad thing.   I think pot decriminalization would be good, though.  In Minnesota, where I live, basically the guys who made up the marijuana laws had no idea about amounts, so as long as you have less than some arbitrary amount,  I believe somewhere around three fourths of an ounce, it's a minor thing, and you get a minor fine and the cops confiscate your weed.  If it's in your car while you're driving, it's a much worse offense.  I personally don't have any problem with people driving while they're high, but I can completely understand why someone not familiar with the effects of the drug would be concerned about that.

As far as legalization goes, I think there are two extreme ends.  Around the late 1800's in America, when most drugs were legal (I think opiates were the first drugs criminalized, and even then they were still allowed in medicines, I believe), it's estimated that around 5% of the population was hooked on drugs.  Most of these people were actually housewives, as many of the drugs we consider hard drugs today were common ingredients in "miracle cure" medicines, sold in magazines, which were obviously very popular amongst housewives at the time.  Nowadays, we have a much lower addiction rate, but a much higher violent crime rate.

I think the whole issue comes down to: down you want more people addicted (and therefore more people wasting away, and more health problems, theoretically), but less violence and crime associated with it, or less people addicted, but more violence and more crime because of it?    Both have their downsides, and there's no easy answer.

By the way, my answer is more about drug legalization in general than pot specifically.  Just sort of rambling.   :)

It can't be any worse than the damage cigarettes and alcohol have caused. For that reason, people shouldn't be arrested for using it. It's a double standard that a guy can go to a bar and get drunk out of his mind, then get behind the wheel and potentially kill someone. However, someone smoking pot in the privacy of his home gets arrested. Stupid law.

I think one of the main issues would be the second hand factor if people were to actually be able to smoke it out in public.

Cigarettes are also way more addictive than Marijuana

As far as cigarettes is concerned, I must be an unusual person because I can smoke a pack for a week or two if I'm bored, stop for a week, stop for 5 months or stop entirely completely at will. Same with any kind of other substance I've tried. I've read that like 1 out of 10 can stop smoking without any kind of assistance. I must either have an incredibly strong will or my body is simply not made for getting addicted. Probably a combination of both.

consider yourself lucky

I have never tried a drug, but pot should be legal.  Its the people's choice and from all accounts it isn't "that" harmful especially when compared to Coke or Heroin.

Yes. 

I think this country has enough lazy losers lying around doing nothing with their lives, wouldnt this create more?  On a side note, I think streroids should be 100% legal...so I will trade one for the other...

Drunk driving is illegal is it not??





:hihi:



I seem to associate pot with the vagabonds that wear tracksuits and live on council estates. A whole nation of that would be hell on earth.

There's something very wrong with your associations then. I mean, fair enough, you think that, that's ok, but pot is such a common thing so there's an incredible span of different people who use it so you can't have ONE association, or generalization, in my opinion. It's like associating alcohol with homeless bums under the bridge. What about the millions of other people who are more or less upstanding citizens and perhaps drink socially every now and then before they head back to family and work?

I know, it's just that round here, that's probably the most common kind of pot user. I don't know categorically (I'm not going to strike up a conversation with them :P), but there seems to be a fair number of them wandering around.



It was upgraded to Class B from Class C in the UK recently so it doesn't look like they're planning on making it legal here any time soon it would seem.

Exactly. I mean, how many people get stoned and go home and beat their wife and kids compared to those who get drunk and ultimately do just that.

Most would just put on a movie, or some music.

On a somewhat related note, on my way to class yesterday I saw a middle-aged man who looked clearly paralyzed smoking a joint, and I thought "who am I to deny such a trivial relief for this person?"

Can see more reasong to illegegalize tobacco, but legalizing has some points.

It's also used to help in some eye-diseases.

My parents have smoked pot since before I was born.  My dad is a mess unless he's able to smoke pot daily, and I mean that absolutely seriously.  He has quite a few mental issues and pot seems to reduce the effects.  He's almost impossible to talk to without getting into some kind of argument...even if you take the tatic of agreeing with everything he says!

It would also reduce my mom's anxiety.  I swear, one day, we will find the woman hiding in a locked closet, while smoking her joint. 

Both of these people are in their 50's.  Putting either one in jail for doing something they've done all of their lives seems kinda like torture, wouldn't you think?  Also, coming to the realization during middle school that I could end up with most of my family in jail because pot was illegal....well, that messed my little mind pretty bad.  (not only my mom and dad smoke, most of the family does)

I don't smoke anymore, personally.  I've found I have an addictive personality, so I tend to take things like that too far.  I will also want my daughter to not even attempt it until she's much older.  I met her father in a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, I think she might be predisposed to bad things lol ;)

In summary, yes, I feel it should be legal to possess it :)

Oh, yes, I could do that, no problem, at first, then I started smoking more and it got harder to quit.

I don't know how it would go with these other substances, but I'd say it's not likely to become addicted if you don't use something, let's say regulary, for a while and then try to stop.
 
As far as the pot goes, just legalize it.

But driving under the influense should be the same as if you'd be drunk driving, since it's no condition to drive. If you don't believe have a few joints and ask your friend to slap you.

According to this site:   http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/    there could be between 10-14 billion dollars worth of revenue each year if it were legalized. This is from 2005, so it could be more by now. Either way, that's a lot of cash. I think that's actually a low estimate, though.
And not just the money, prison populations would diminish, as well as street crime.

How does it stop street crime? Do you think that legalizing it in the US (for example) will curb the Mexican and South American Drug trade? Think about it, if it is grown legally and taxed in the US the drug cartels could still make a considerable profit by comming in under the amount with tax. Considering that in some states a pack of Cigarettes is around 7-8 dollars I would have to imagine gangs would still look to keep that revenue stream open.

Also I may be wrong, but I haven't heard of anything as simple as the breathalizer to test for THC levels when DUI comes into play. It is easier now to arrest for it because it is illegal so the level doesn't come into play.

Just how legal would it be? Would you be able to smoke in public? What would be the ramifications of that? Picture the amount of cigarette smoke in a Vegas Casino... can you imagine the state of people being fishbowled at the Mirage... that would give that Hotel's name a whole new meaning.

Yes.


Wha...? 

You just blew my mind.

It wouldn't stop all street crimes, but how many people steal to support their habit? Or how many spend too much money on it instead of their bills? I don't know the answer, but it has to be some. I realize that's a small percentage, but it's a start. Smoking pot isn't going away, no matter how much money the government throws at it. Someday I'm sure it will be legal, or at least decriminalized.
I'm not saying it is or isn't a great idea. I just think that many people do it, and they aren't a menace to society. To them, it's nothing worse than having a drink after work.

I didn't word that very well.  What I meant was that people can drink excessively at a bar or some other public place and law enforcement doesn't come barging in. They're just told to drink responsibly and have a designated driver. But that hasn't always worked out. Almost everyday it's reported that someone's been killed in a car accident due to drunk driving.

Alcohol is celebrated in society. It's associated with having a great time and partying. For people who have grown up around alcoholics it's not fun. It sucks.

hells yeah it should be legal 8)

Imagine being in a world surrounded by people like this dude ^^^^^^^^^????

First pot, then meth, then coke, then E, etc..........

Ah, classic Nancy Raygun "gateway drug" nonsense.

I'm pretty sure on the legalization scale that meth comes WAY after coke and E. 

She was doped up the whole time anyway.....

you trying to say something asshole? >:( you don't know me

the only thing that pot leads to is junk food and a nap

But that's my life anyway.

does pot damage your brain cells?

easy there little fella

No, pretty sure that's yet another Nancy Raygun fib.

It can kill your motivation if you let it is probably more accurate.

If my parents can be considered examples of life-long use......

Yes..yes, it does.

You know the character Dori the Fish in Finding Nemo?  I swear, they based that off of my mom (my mom's name is Dori :hihi: ). Seriously. Its kinda sad but really REALLY funny alot of the time.

of course it does, look at Tommy Chong. That man is fried beyong recovery and yet he's one of the coolest mother fucking old guys there ever will be.

But it only does that when you smoke a 1/4 or more ever day or two for longer than maybe 2 1/2 - 3 years, but thats just a guess-tament

i'd say personally my friends and i still have our minds to where we don't get cought, were smart about it .......unless we get lazy or sloppy one night...thats another story......

:peace:

so is it like, roughly speaking it's as harmful as alcohol?

Yes...also there needs to be a 'South Park Only' TV network, and NASA needs to develop a bottomless bag of Cool Ranch Doritos.

In that vein - todays 'drug testing' should be eliminated, since it only shows that you have smoked weed within the last 2-6 weeks...not if you are currently impaired (like the HGN test does)...my 'employer' shouldn't be able to put me in jail/fire me if I want to smoke weed on my vacation, etc...once pot is legal.

i'd say just the same if not less than albohol. Only each one affects different areas of the body, you drink to much your livers fucked, if you smoke to much your lungs get fucked.

alcoholics are imo the same as stoners. After a while they both act say and do things that are completely retarded, yet, funnier than hell. and eventually everyone gets the munches' and goes to sleep :)

It should definitely be legal.  The govt could pay off the national debt if they could find a way to tax it like they're taxing the hell out of cigarettes ;D 

I saw a bust on the news the other day where they had marijuana-laced chocolate.  Is that not the most perfect PMS food ever?!  I want it!

Disclaimer: I have not read this entire article, nor am I supporting it's contents.  I'm only posting it as it's applicable and can probably stir good discussion.  I also supported the previous U.S. President, George W. Bush, and continue to support him to this day.  (Obama is a liar, and what the mainstream media has done for the past few years is inexcusable).

Enjoy!   :D
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124061336043754551.html#printMode (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124061336043754551.html#printMode)

A good point is whats happening in the production countries, where the state can't control the mafia anymore.

So it's easy for us to say "yeah, it should be legal" but it's a complex question.

Yes, alcohol breaks down your internal organs, and maryjane burns out numerous brain cells with each use.  They do not replace themselves, it is like opening up a complete can of stupid, only to get stupider over time ::)

I hear wine's good for you. ;D

"If you don't believe drugs have done some good things for us, I want you to do me a favor. I want you to go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CDs, and burn 'em. 'Cause you know what? The musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were reeeeeeeal fucking high on drugs."

- Bill Hicks (R.I.P.)

I don't think all the good musicians have had to rely on drugs.

Just most of them. :P



But no, I agree. Not all bands are on drugs. :smoking:

Great lesson on Marijuana


yeah it should be legal.

Slow clap!