Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Rather than post this in the other Obama thread, I think this video deserves its own discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

I'm not a fan of Obama by any means. I think the whole premise of Obama's election was built upon falsehoods pushed upon America by pseudo-intellectuals and mainstream news media.

Anyway.... just from watching about 10 minutes of the video, there have been so many little thing said that are just not true, or taking huge leaps in logic to the point of absurdity.  It comes across like the 9/11 conspiracy videos, or the Clinton Dead Pool videos, etc. etc.

Again, I only watched 10 minutes of it, but that was enough for me to realize this is not worth my time.   Sorry.  Others are free to watch and disagree.

Well, props for at least checking it out.  What was said in first 10min that was so untrue that made you stop watching?  I think theres more truth than not in this video and awareness is the only way to start a revolution...ie...the Venus Project, a new social design and way of living.

I watched for a good half hour, but don't have time to finish all, does sort of take me back to the "Clinton Chronicles" though!!

I am so not going to watch this.  I can only assume it is going to play like those stupid videos that say George Bush was in a satanic cult and I see no reason why this deserves it's own thread. :no:

BTW, the real SHEEP on this planet are you folks that suck down all these videos about the NWO, 9/11 conspiracies, the Illuminati and the like.

Well, they made a video about it so it must be true, right? ::)

You are crazier than the far left extremist liberals and the super far right bible thumpers.

Part of the reason our country is in the shape it is....an entire generation of imbeciles who look to youtube and wiki for their information.

I mean I can take sound bites and parts of speeches and interviews that suit my needs, put them together with some ridiculous made up facts and make a video too and some bunch of suckers out there will buy it as true.

It's kind of like the popular youtube video going around that "proves" the Dems created the financial crisis. What these morons don't take into consideration was that the GOP was in control of everything during that time. It was impossible for Frank or anybody else to tell them "No" and shut it down. But don't let little facts like that get in the way of anything....so dumb.

Didn't same author make a 9/11 video?

It's a bit enthusiastic,
- but some of things he point out (in the obama video) is worth study further.

I believe you summed up conservative talk radio right there...with audio samplings as opposed to video samplings of course.  ;)

Some 50 random short quotes that are taken completely out of context and thus are beyond irrelevant,  a  rap star and Jesse fucking Ventura offering their views about government.
And  then blam, same tired " our government is the great satan" mumbo jumbo bullshit presented a hundred times before.
Very strong material. This indeed deserves it's own thread.

Planes  hitting WTC were actually remote controlled cyborg trains. I know this because steel doesnt melt due to Bush sr. having said " new world order" in a speech 30 years ago. 
There were two trains. GWB and Obama are two men! Coincidence?
I report, you decide!

If I was man enough, I'd make a conspiracy documentary about the cold and calculative industry of conspiracy documentaries.

Jesse Ventura and a Rap dude?  Oh now that changes everything!!! :rofl:

I blame the Fed for everything.

K-Fed?

(http://i40.tinypic.com/v2v3lz.jpg)

He is much too stupid to blame for anything....

Yes, don't let that hat or trailer park glue sniffing gaze fool you. This man is a mastermind, and plays a pivotal role in the global elite and their plan for a new world order.

 :rofl:

Frankly, I think he engineered the whole 911 thing too.

Stupid?  Are you kidding??  He's turned zero talent/potential into millions of dollars!  Hell, I think K-Fed should be running the Fed.   :hihi:

well, touche!

Elect KFED! ;D

Ad hominem, much? That's a former governor that you're talking about, sir!

So is Ah-nold and the guy we have in NY now who has no clue because he fell into position when our last dude became Client #9.  A title doesn't necessarily mean they have a clue!

Unless they're message board titles.

Well, DUH!!!!!!!!! :hihi:

I'm not a huge Alex Jones fan, but I will watch this one.

Though, Bandita, I am interested as to what your opinion of the Bilderberg Group is?

Pure interest, is all.

Well, considering her real name is Bandita Von Bilderberg, I have a feeling you're going to get a big, fat "No Comment!"
 :hihi:

Haha. Oh, I should add that


well, yeah, you're right. Though it is a fairly redundant point. (In as far as you could make it with regards many things*.)

Edit to say, *of this nature!

Wow...alot of negative feedback!! I'm wondering if some of these people even watched it at, open up your minds and look at the evidence presented.  The sooner its exposed the sooner real positive change can happen. 

 Glad some have taken a look, but alot of people (most of my family included) are just so against this that they won't even hear it out, which is the most frustrating thing, ignorant, stereotypical mentality.

 There are real facts and evidence presented and if people can't to be bothered to take something like this seriously then look forward to harder times ahead.

 :rofl:

OK, I admittedly had to Google that one.  I can't claim to know everything, people!

By my brief overview I can see it is a group of so called prestigious folk who some claim are plotting some type of world domination/shadow government.  I do tend to roll my eyes when I read things such as this. 

I just do not have the time nor the inclination to buy into every conspiracy that is thrown at me. 

I just think the internet becomes even more of a trash can when anyone can basically create a piece of work based on whatever it is they personally believe in and call it factual. 

I used to enjoy Michael Moore movies for instance.  But every time he made a new one, more and more "facts" were really not factual at all. 

I prefer to do my own reading from the sources I choose and prefer to draw my own conclusion from that.  I don't need it thrown all together at me in a YouTube clip and then have some narrator tell me what I am to make of it.

 :peace:

I'm watching, and wondering if polluxlm is in this vid.

P?  You in there?

The Michael Moore movies are great too,  what "facts" were not factual at all??...I'd doubt if these inaccuracies are significant in the over all message.  Health care is lousy in the States and good in Canada and other parts of the world, like England. Thats a fact isn't it?

I'd value your opinion more if you actually watched the documentary, it has some interesting points, have to give it that. 

I don't understand the hate towards these videos and why many people flat out refuse to watch them, its only information, take it as you like.  Maybe for you its soo far fetched and more like a comedy, I personally take it far more serious.  But I do suggest everyone watches Obama Deception (and Zeitgeist) and take whatever they get out of them. 
 

I don't doubt this video is bullshit BUT I would like to point out how people buy anti Bush or Republican videos hook line and sinker, but when the shoe is on the other foot, it is all hogwash


just saying

i watched some of it.

yes, washington is controlled by big business. it's disgusting.

Jesse the Body made a great point....behind closed doors all Dems and Republicans are on the same team. and IMO are basically laughing all the way to the bank.

Obama just happens to be the current guy in charge, and only for 2 months.

but it's never gonna change. these politicians have it all figured out. 90% of the country thinks "their side" are the "good" guys. just look at the love and support people give these crooks. it's gonna be tough to ever overcome that. 

I watched the whole damned thing and have three points:

#1:  They make a LOT of completely unsubstantiated claims...A LOT!

#2:  Why wasn't the issue of motive raised?  I watched nearly two hours of conspiracy theory, and I cannot recall to mind a single mention of WHY they felt this was being done.  And I think motive is important here, because it's not so obvious.  Obviously, issues like money and power are central to understanding motive in this issue.  But the individuals involved, if this is true (or even if it's not), already HAVE money and power.  There's got to be a law of diminishing returns, here.  When you're a multi-billionaire, what's the benefit of having more billions?  You'll die long before you can spend it.  I suppose their motive could be evil (S.P.E.C.T.R.E. anyone?), but that strikes me as a George W. Bush explanation, and I reject it.  So what's the point?  Why "enslave" humanity?

#3: Seriously...was pollux in this vid?  I hope he had a megaphone.

Excuse me but I pointed out in my 1st post that the "Bush is in a Satanic Cult" videos are hogwash as well.  They are all the same BS, repackaged to fit the day.

Bandita, we've all said that, yet D seems to think we all lap that shit up...despite the fact we've said we don't. 
D, what anti-Bush/anti-Republican videos are we all watching that we're not aware of?   ???  Damn, Bush didn't need all that shit to make him look bad. 

Haha, he certainly did not---he did a fine job without belonging to Satan.

All you have to do is look out the window or turn on the news to see what Bush wrecked (just like everything else he did in his life) in eight years. Who needs a stupid youtube video to try and validate that?

You don't need a grimly dictated video dissecting the dollar bill and the pyramids, secret societies and shadow governments to figure out the truth?

I agree that Bush and Obama are both controlled by the same people.  The motive Freedom78 is that these very people made huge contributions via their companies to Barack on the campaign trail.  That is why he will vote down the bonus tax, cause he took money from these people that helped put him in office.  Nobody can cause change or they will be killed like JFK was.

Seriously?  If the bonus tax gets voted down it's because it FRIGHTENS people (regular people, NOT just the ones that get million and billion dollar bonuses) that the government can so easily say "hey buddy, we don't like you so we are going to tax you at 90%"

It just sets a bad precedent. 

Granted the whole AIG thing is just a clusterf%%k mess and that money needs to come back but there has to be another way.

There's an enormous difference between saying that the banking industry (or corporate America in general) has too much influence in Washington, on one hand, and saying that it's a conspiracy to enslave the world.

And you still didn't explain the motive anywhere near my satisfaction (though that question wasn't addressed to you, in the first place...but I'm still happy to discuss).  Think...if the world is enslaved and all the money is concentrated at the top...why do you need money?  You've already got the world enslaved...do you really need another billion so you can buy more from your enslaved population?  It's nonsense.  You must control everything because...why?  What is it that a multi billionaire cannot afford that would be affordable if this conspiracy were true and were carried out fully?  How can money be the motive of someone with more money than anyone else?  

Also, for the record, one of the wingnuts they feature in that piece, Mr. Webster Tarpley, is so nutty that he actually attended PUMA-Con (the convention of the die-hard Hillary supporters who rallied around the cry "Party unity my ass"...to very little success, I might add...source: http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/the_truth_about_puma_conference_08_you_cant_spell_conference_without_c_o_n/ ).  So, in the same piece they discuss how Obama is a continuation of this evil, how Hillary and Bill are both tied in with the CFR, Trilateral, Bildenberg stuff...and yet he was completely in the tank for Hill?  Come on.      

Ha, it is too much influence and the 90% tax is illegal.  Washington is shady as shit and there are some things in this video that are very worrysome.

Washington shady? Say it aint so!

Look, we all know that no matter what party you fall under there is corruption in some way. 

I don't think these videos are helpful though because they mix half truths with stuff that is just downright nuts and then people come along and just suck it right up.

I'm not only talking about people on the forum, just in general.  I remember when Micheal Moore stuff came out, I saw Bush being accused of being behind the 9-11 attacks to all kinds of other shit. Bush was incompetent, I give you that, but every single thing was micro analyzed.

even with Obama, I see not one person mentioning anything about his special olympic remark. Sure it was a joke, but what if Bush had said something dumb like that?  There would be a 20 page thread on it right now.

Bush said about 6 billion dumb things like that.  That's why there were Bush-isms.

I generally agree that the 90% tax is likely illegal, in that it's a very specialized tax applied to only a few individuals.  It would have been legal to say that no company getting TARP funds can give bonuses, say, over $20K, but once they're given, you can't legally (to my knowledge) tax them at such a rate, because income tax depends on total income, and no portion of any OTHER person's income is taxes thusly. 

That said, I've heard that some are giving the money back.  I think it would be best to strongly encourage them to simply donate it to a worthwhile (non partisan, not hot button issue) charity. 


My South Park sense of humor doesn't allow me to freak out when someone says "retard" or anything of the like, and if Bush had done so, my first thought would have been to wonder who the hell HE is to call ANYONE a retard. 

By the same logic every millionaire or billionaire should just quit doing business and retreat to the Caymans once they got more than they need. I'm interested to know what you consider the cap here.

They need money because money is control, and they want control because that's what every powerful man has wanted since humanity crawled out of the slime. It makes perfect sense if you put yourself in the perspective of a multi-billionaire. You already have access to every material luxury on the planet, so what's keeping you from killing yourself out of sheer boredom? The quest for power, power over other individuals.

Your reasoning becomes especially humorous considering these guys are meeting behind closed doors regularly to synchronize their activities for personal gain.



Ad hominem now?

Pretty weak ^

Tell it to your shrink. I'm done with your pathetic, disturbed mind.

Hell yeah  : ok:

I'm going to get Tap's lawyer to sue you. I'm also not Tap btw.

Me neither, I just play him on the internets.

First, there's a big difference between a millionaire and a multi billionaire (which the vid lists as essential to getting membership in this club). 

Second, by the admission of the vid, they already control the President and much of Congress, not to mention Europe.  So...how is it that they somehow lack power and control, and thus need to enslave humanity?   


Sometimes ad hominem is valid, when it's about the credibility of the source.  Tell me...if his criticism is valid, and the criticism against Hillary (and Bill) Clinton is also valid, then why was he attending a convention of die hard Hillary supporters, dedicated to subverting the Democratic Party and derailing Obama's nomination or, if not possible, defeating him.  Only Tarpley, of all the people in that vid, says that Obama would be worse than Hillary or McCain.  But the vid itself ties Hillary and Bill Clinton to the same conspiracy. 

So explain it...he's against Obama and wants to decloak this conspiracy...but he's FOR Hillary despite the fact that she's also a part of it?  It doesn't add up.


Ad Hominem now?

Freedom, all I know is when there is this much smoke, there may be a little fire.  Obviously these guys don't know it all or they would have more answers as to what actually happens at these mysterious meetings, either way, I can't ignore everything in this video just because its made from some "whacko".  There are a lot of evil people on this planet and most of these super wealthy got their money from the sweat off someone else's back.  Why do you think a major 3rd party has never been able to succeed?  Why hasn't the number of reps in the house increased as our population has?  Why don't we worry about the illegal immigrants (cause we love the cheap labor force).... 

There is just too much smoke here regardless if you beleive the video.

First, let me say that I agree with many of the basic criticisms laid out in the film...I just don't think it's part of a massive conspiracy to enslave humanity (unless you were to call the basic semi-forced need to work for a company in order to survive "slavery"...which some might). 

As for third parties, the reason they're unable to succeed is quite simple.  The two party system puts up exorbitant roadblocks to their success.  First, they have to overcome obstacles far greater than Democrats or Republicans in order to gain ballot access.  Second, unlike Dems and Reps who get public financing for their campaigns, third parties can only get such financing AFTER the fact...they have to gain 5% (usually) to gain funding...meaning they have to win before they get the money that the other parties get to fund said "winning".  Third, we have what we call Duverger's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law), which states that the number of effective (competitive) parties in an election is likely to be the number of contested seats + 1.  Since each district has one seat, the natural trend is for people to gravitate toward two parties.  Thus, while the specific parties that are competitive is not specified, the number is very much a natural conclusion of the very system set up in our Constitution, wherein each district has a race for one seat.  This is the reason why countries that have proportional representation (Israel, Germany, etc.) have "third" parties that do MUCH better than third parties do in the US...when your vote for a third party isn't a "wasted" vote, you  are MUCH more likely to vote your conscience than to make internal concessions, as everyone who calls him/herself "independent" (i.e. 30-40% of the population) does in this country.  Does it really surprise you that politicians want to insulate their power and that, despite their (relatively minor) differences, Republicans and Democrats are willing to work together to ensure that, if there's to be a two party system, that THEY are one of those two parties?  The Federal Election Commission, which monitors campaign finances, is designed to have six members...three GOP and three Dem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Election_Commission).  Is it really a shock that they protect such a system that put them in place?

I see greed in the world.  I see power hunger.  It's obvious.  It's clear.  And it's wrong.  But there's a leap to be made between ordinary, capitalist, politician variety greed and power hunger, on the one hand, and a massive conspiracy theory on the other.  BIG leap.     

Yes we have an entire generation with negative savings that is essentially indebted to large financial corporations. But with the exception of this economic crisis, most people in this country enslave themselves. Nobody holds a gun to your head and tells you to live a lifestyle you can't afford. Nobody forces you to spend money you do not have. It's that simple.

Thing is, one needs the basics...shelter, food,etc....the monetary system essentially puts a gun to your own head, if you choose to not be a slave and not work, then your on the street with nothing, which is the same has firing the gun.  So I don't think people choose to enslave themselves but rather do out of the need for survival. 

This the world you are born into. However at the most fundamental human level, we do not necessarily have to participate in it.  You can always revert to hunting and gathering, nobody is stopping you. You'd still be alive and you would still have the days to spend as you'd like (While you aren't hunting.) In fact there was a study done maybe thirty years ago that these nomadic types were just as happy, if not more so, than those who got up and went to work everyday.

Is a TV, car, or internet a fundamental human necessity? That depends. If you believe that it is, then it's time to lace up.

Omitting the working class poor from my argument, I'm  referring to middle income individuals/families on up the ladder. It is quite possible to drive the same car for ten years (Mine for 7.2 and the wife's for 8.0), and pay off a modest home in the same amount of time. How difficult a concept is this to imagine? You are going to have to work one way or the other. You only need to work smart-which most people don't. I'd argue that if you chose to be a hunter-gatherer you'd work rather hard as well. In this case you could not come home to post about it on the interwebtubes though.

Now, I will restate that most people create their own problems, especially in regards to finance. Billions spent on flashy marketing from the time we are born tell us what we need to make us happy, and as a society we readily hand over our hard earned cashola in order to obtain these widgets. If we don't have the money yet, we borrow (sometimes at astronomical rates) to buy that product we so desperately need. Foolish and stupid. (Again, I'm leaving out the working class poor, those hit with medical conditions and so on.)

You can play and win, nobody is holding you down, and there is no conspiracy to control you. There is only mass marketing and the manipulation of the human mind to redefine happiness. That's it.

My friend makes double what I do, but he's heading into bankruptcy court later this year. He owns NOTHING and owes everybody. My other friend spent his way into oblivion and will NEVER retire (he is 56 now I think.) Nobody forced them to do this, they made their own choices. The second should have both houses paid for by now, and one should be providing a steady stream of income. He actually started right, but got lured away. It's all very sad really. They are both financial slaves and HAVE to work nearly everyday, or they are finished.

The monetary system is no more against you then the elements were against those who preceded us as they looked for ways to feed themselves everyday.

Only?

As it relates to my argument in regards to financial irresponsibility yep.

See, now when SLC throws a bunch of words on my screen at least they make a valid point. :peace:

Land owners could become a problem, though... At least over here. Not to mention companionship! I would imagine that many of us would class that as a fundamental necessity.


I haven't read the study, but I know that Richard Dawkins talks about it in the introduction to one of his books (The Ancestors Tale, I think).


But you are also leaving out the less intelligent, the naive and the ignorant (I use those words with their actual meaning, not as the insults that they are often used as).


Yes, they did. But to say that you chose... Well, yes, you did. And you chose well! I have a deep respect for your views on not borrowing in order to buy what you can't afford (though you'd be hard pressed to believe that, if you saw my bank balance...). But do you not think that you are making the assumption that all people have the capacity to think like you? Maybe capacity is the wrong word... But what you are exposed to, how are you raised, greatly affects the degree to which you will think like that! The desire to want something runs much deeper than merely wanting it for the sake of having it, and want it now because you are impatient... It can be psychological, social, have any number of much deeper causes. Which is why I think that to shrug it off as being "only the manipulation of the human mind" seems to imply that because this manipulation hasn't had so great an affect on you that it wouldn't have had a much deeper one on anybody else, as well as making the assumption that all men are born equal (yet, apparently, nowhere are we in chains...).

Is everybody born equal, SLC? Do we all have the innate ability to reach the same conclusions as you, and act upon them? And if we do... Then why don't we?

I respect your question, and you raise a valid point. However there are plenty of people that are smarter than me, and have a better education (That I personally know) who are stuck on a financial hamster wheel and probably will be for the remainder of their life. What got them there in the first place? Greed? When is enough enough anyway?  Is it human nature to want more or are we taught to think that way?

Those with less brain capacity or less education are often doomed to repeat the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result each time. That, or they are merely trying to scrape by. The only thing that would help that segment of the population IMO is education, and as I've pointed out there is no guarantee that will save you from a life of financial serfdom. Greed (ie consumerism) often trumps intelligence.

I knew a waitress (about ten years ago) who paid her house off by the age of 26. Our society thinks of that job as a rather lowly position. But her house was paid off (no mansion mind you, a simple home), her cars, and no debt. Why was this person able to understand the true value of ownership and money vs the majority of people she was bringing food too? At that point in her young life her money was now hers. No bank "owned' her, her money was hers to do with as she pleased. With less education and supposedly less income how was this woman bound by the monetary system? She prioritized and that's it.

That's my point in the end. The system is what it is, it is not inherently malicious by nature.  There are those who will thrive in it, and those who will fail. The poster's argument was that it's out to screw you, which I disagree with. If you are greedy, don't understand or respect money, lack sound judgment, or simply don't possess the intelligence then yes it can be brutal.