Here Today... Gone To Hell!

How many of you that bought the US edition of the Chinese Democracy vinyl have issues with its quality?

I've read comments about skips, distorted sound, fingerprints and so on about the LP sold by Best Buy.

So if you have have experienced something disappointing in the quality of the US pressing, please post here and we'll see if we can forward the comments to somebody.

Please post where and when you bought the vinyl.

---

I only opened one of my US vinyls:


Pre-ordered vinyl, with delivery. Not store pick-up.

Came with smudges/finger prints.

Side A: Street Of Dreams multiple skips
Side B: Cather In The Rye: skip
Side C: I.R.S multiple skips


The last track on each side seems to sound distorted (?). The first two tracks on each side seem to sound nicer.





/jarmo

I have yet to play mine.  I need to get a record player.  From what I could tell, mine are in perfect condition.  I had mine delivered, though, so it wasn't shipped to a store first.

I ordered mine from bestbuy.com and had it delivered to my house. Everything seems in good shape except side 2 of the second LP. It came out of the sleeve looking extremely scratched.

I bought the the vinyl online from Chapters.ca, around the end of November. The packaging was in good condition, but the vinyl had smudges, scratches and fingerprints on it. Side one of the first vinyl plays fine, and side 2 plays somewhat okay, except for some skips at the end of If The World and the inner groove issue with Catcher causing the end to sound distorted. Side 3 is the worst of them all, Scraped and Riad skip incessantly, with IRS and Sorry only skipping a few times. Side 4 has a few skips as well in This I Love and Prostitute.

I know you say the US edition and Best Buy, but the version sold in Canada seems to be a US import by Universal Canada. So this issue would affect Canadians as well.

I bought 2 US vinyls. I left one unopened and opened the other one. The ENTIRE first side is full of scratches!

I bought mine at Best Buy in Wisconsin. Anyways, mine had prints and scatches. When I returned it, I opened another in store and it had the same problem. Funny thing is, when I told my local indi shop owner about it, he suggested that the master might have had the flaws and it to be an issue of poor quality controll. Perhaps. Thanks, Jarmo.

I bought mine about a month after release at a Best Buy in Las Vegas, NV. Mine was perfect, sounds great. I know this is a thread for defected ones, but I was thinking maybe since I got mine a month later, it was just the first batch that was messed up?

Mine is just for showing support for the band, hanging on the wall and looking at since I don't have a record player, so I can't bitch!

It's great that some of you have bought copies, but it's not really helping if you haven't listened to them.....

So, please, only those that have listened to their LPs, reply from now on.

Thanks.




/jarmo

If you dont mind me asking, y do u wanna know?

From my experience, people who buy vinyl to listen to, expect certain things like good sound quality.

If it turns out the vinyl version of Chinese Democracy, or a batch of the release, is low quality, maybe it can be fixed in the future.

The album deserves it.




/jarmo

O, cool.

I agree, If I cud afford it, I would have a top of the range surround sound system to listen to albums, bt unfortunately I cant...

But when I grow up!

I bought it the day it came out. Finally got a turntable again & listened to it 2 weeks ago. There is at least 1 skip on each album side, looks as if something was spilled on one of the sides of the album and there is some odd distortion noticeable on Prostitute, or it may be easier to hear the audio issue on the string section of the song.

My vinyl for sure came with some smudges and all kind of skips in If the world.  I was really bummed!



Thanks so much,
Hatts

I bought mine at the store the first day. I dont remember complaining about any skips but I do remember seeing finger prints and being annoyed by it. I should listen to it again to see if there are skips.

First I would like to say thank you Jarmo for starting this thread.

I have purchased three copies of the US vinyl and listened to all three.  I purchased two at the Oakdale, MN store first day (one was a pre-order in store pick up), and the 3rd one I purchased at the Maplewood, MN store 3 weeks after the release (hoping I would get a good pressing).

All three copies had the smudges and finger prints, all three are distorted on the inner tracks. I did not have issues with skipping.

SOD, Catcher, and IRS are all distorted, (inner groove distortion).  Inner groove distortion is common and inherent to the vinyl format, because the innner grooves are much smaller so it is more difficult for the stylus to pick up the information.  However it should not be to this extreme, as a decent turntable with a decent and properly aligned cartridge will solve this issue.  I even purchased a new cartridge known for solving inner groove distortion and it only mildy reduced it on chin dem.

I also emailed BB and advised them that they should contact the company that pressed the LP's and let them know of this issue.  There are even customer reviews on the BB website that mention these issues. 

I also spoke to a couple of people who work at indie record stores that sell vinyl and was told that some new releases are substandard because of the limited number of pressing plants and the high demand for vinyl.  It is sometimes difficult to meet release date deadlines and as a result quality can suffer because they pull a rush job (that would explain the finger prints).  This is why many re-issues are often pushed back, and some new releases often come out on vinyl well after the initial release date.  If I were to speculate, I think Chin Dem got the rush job and at least some of the LPs are just poorly pressed.

So when I do listen to Chin Dem, I always skip SOD, Catcher, and IRS...Prostitute sounds ok but you'll notice that it is not as close to the middle of the LP as the songs that are distorted.  

I would gladly purchase another LP if or when this is corrected in the future, because Jarmo is right, the album deserves it....it is an album that is perfect for vinyl.  

Yes I also have purchased 2 here in WA, yes mine also skips.  I haven't bitched about it as I also purchased a new turntable setup just for this.  I felt like maybe if I bought a better quality needle, it would possibly fix the problem, but have yet to do so.  When we were kids and the records sometimes skipped we would tape a penny on top of the needle arm for added weight, and it would stop, those were the days huh?  Anyway like some of you mentioned I have only opened one of the albums.

I bought mine at Best Buy in Vauxhall, NJ.

There were skips on Scraped, Rhiad, and Madagascar.

I returned it, and got another.

There were skips again on Rhiad.

i bought a copy in canada.  the release was several weeks later than the US vinyl release date, so I expected that it was a different canadian pressing, but when i got it, it said it was a US pressing on the back.  like everyone else, there were fingerprints all over both vinyls.  there are also a lot of skips, as well as a lot of distortion on certain songs that aren't on the CD.

I exchanged the vinyl thinking that i just got a bad copy, but my replacement copy suffers from the same problems.  that sucks, cause I like to listen to most of my music on vinyl.  oh well, i just listen to the CD but am looking forward to an improved pressing.

listening to my vinyl right now specifically trying to spot these skipping and distortion issues.
SOD had no skips at all but I did notice distortion. Turned it over to ITW and it was clear as day.
My needle and turntable are pretty good as they have been able to fix some bad issues before on other albums so maybe im just lucky and wont hear the skips. Updates later as I get to Catcher, IRS, etc.

edit: No skipping issues with Catcher either. Did notice some distortion though. Has to be my awesome needle that is solving the skipping issue :)

edit 2: Two skips on maddy  >:( but other than that both records are pretty good. Guess I got lucky.

My experience is that the last tracks on each side sounded worse than the first two.






/jarmo

I don't need to listen to it to see that it won't sound well due to the scratches.

So your pre-ordered copy had scratches? No smudges/finger prints?



/jarmo

I have not had my listening experience ruined, but I would like to give you my input on the packaging.

At a few stores in the valley, a lot of the records had crinkled edges, and more than a few of them had the cellophane ripped off.  I had to spend a lot of time sorting through them all and finding records in near mint condition.

This seemed to be a problem at stores that did not have the Chinese Democracy display case.  The stores in Santa Monica and Los Feliz had the display case with the records on top, and that seemed to work fine.  The stores in Sherman Oaks and Woodland Hills did not have their act together.

I'm just astounded that I can go into a regular old record store and buy a 40 year old record with perfect sleeves, and I can't buy a new release from my favorite band in decent condition.

I'll be taking it out of the frame for it's first listen later this week and I'll look closely for smudges and fingerprints. All I remember currently is prominent scratches on the second LP.

My copy didn't have any smudges, scratches, or skips on either album.  I also bought it on the first day it came out, so maybe I got lucky and got a good one.  On the other hand, the last tracks on all but Side 2 of the second LP definitely sounded worse than the rest of the tracks.  Axl's voice especially seemed to be distorted.  I remember reading on this board that it was due to the fact that the grooves on these last tracks were closely spaced together and if I had a better (i.e., expensive) needle on my record player, this wouldn't have been a problem.  The fact that "Prostitute" sounded fine is because there aren't as many songs on that album side and it didn't have to be as compressed as the other final tracks were.  (Please forgive me if I am getting some of the terminology wrong here with regards to my description of this explanation - it's been a while since I read it.)

I hope this helps in some small way.  At any rate, I primarily bought the album as a souvenir and listen the CD most of the time, anyway.  In fact, it has been on repeat in my car since I bought it!  I don't think any other album I've ever bought has lasted this long in my vehicle!  I just can't get enough of it, as I'm sure many of you can't either.   ;D

This thread had me scratching my head, so on my way to my homeboy-gangster buddy's party I stopped in at Best Buy to buy another copy.

I opened it today to find that there were fingerprints and smudges on both LP's, and on the second one, there were lots and lots of scratches, especially on side 4.  And what really killed it for me was that there was a chip on the second record!  A CHIP!

I really hope that when Chinese is re-released, they think about using another pressing plant's services.  Whoever did the job this time should have their permit revoked.

Took the vinyl off the wall today and was shocked at the fact that I thought the "finger prints" and "scratches" were only on Side 4. They're all over both LPs, both sides.

But I did listen to it all the way through and found the following issues with sound:

LP 1
Skipping on Chinese Democracy
Heavy distortion on Street Of Dreams
Skipping on If The World
Heavy distortion on Catcher In The Rye

LP 2
Skipping on Riad N' The Bedouins
Distortion on I.R.S.
Something else weird is up with LP 2 though. The actual LP looks like it was cut wrong. There's enough plastic on one side more than the other that it was actually rubbing against the side of the record player every time it comes to that spot.

I just wanna say that even if nothing comes of it, I do appreciate any effort at all put into to it.

Looks like the general consensus is that the issues are the same.




/jarmo

what are you planning to do, jarmo?

In other words, somebody at the record company.




/jarmo

Hopefully the record company can "convince" the pressing comany/plant to make amends somehow. Hell it was what the 2nd or 3rd highest selling LP in 08, so its not like it is a tiny issue.

It makes me curious as to who pressed the Chin Dem LP, because the AFD LP "Back to Black" re-issue is solid, both from the pressing standpoint and packaging.  From what I hear the Illusion "Back to Black" European re-issues are also decent.   

i bought two copies, opened one.  it had smudges/fingerprints and skipped (can't remember on which song right now).  i exchanged it and haven't opened either copy since.  i'm really hoping for a re-issue 4x12" or something.

My copy, purchased in Houston, TX, has all the smudges, fingerprints and skips as everyone here has indicated. Unfortunately, I live in Canada so I can't return it to BB in the U.S.

During this whole process I did some research on this, as I also got Illusions up here in Canada with the same issues as Chinese. I spoke to a very helpful company out of Kansas about the state of vinyl, and here's a letter they have written on all this:



Things have changed since most of us got hooked on the needle (read stylus). It?s time you learned about vinyl?s near-death experience. Before you return that record that you think just might have a little bit of surface noise, put on something mellow, sit back and listen up.

The Day The Music (Almost) Died

Ever wonder as someone with proud ears how the hell CD came to replace LP as the world?s preferred music software format? Sure, the CD was more durable, it didn?t need to be flipped, it didn?t suffer surface noise and it was much more cool and ?80s-looking than the LP. People were blinded by science. This was the first optically-read format. How couldn?t it be better? But, come on, we all know that with some exception LPs blow away the sound of CDs. So how then did the music industry pull the wool over so many eyes for so long? Forcefully is the answer. 

Back in the early 1980s when CDs first came to retail stores, the music business was in a funk, and record-pressing quality was headed the way of the toilet. There were more defects than ever. Defects spell returns. Returns equal money lost. Money lost makes for an industry in trouble. CD was tagged as the savoir. And until MP3s, the savoir came through. How? For one, people craved silence. LPs were becoming more and more synonymous with Rice Krispies ? snap, crackle, pop. And most people did not care for their records properly. CDs delivered defect-free silence, never mind the compression and compromised sound. The new format also was lighter and therefore cheaper to ship and stores could stock a lot more CDs in the same space as fewer LPs.

But what?s not as well known about the transition from LP to CD is this: The major record companies tried to kill the LP by rejecting any returns of vinyl for any reason. Once a store bought an LP, they were stuck with it even if it were defective or went unsold. All vinyl sales were on a one-way basis. Meanwhile, CDs could be returned for any reason. At the same time, the majors raised the price of LPs.

So, let?s hypothesize about how a Mom and Pop record store (those used to be commonplace) would react to the new climate. Say a distributor calls with news of a title by the next big thing, Too Fat to Duck, or some other artist the record storeowner has never heard of. Knowing he can return the CDs but not the LPs, which format do you think he?s going to take a chance on? Even if it were an artist the storeowner knew he could sell, he?s still going to push his customers toward CD for the simple reason that he doesn?t have to take the chance of being stuck with any defective or unsold product.

And so gradually stores began to stock more CDs and less LPs until vinyl was reduced to the niche industry that it still is. The customer went along with the trend because of the increasingly better selection of CDs and because of clever marketing by the music industry. The slogan was ?CD ? Perfect Sound Forever.? Should?ve been: ?The Big Lie.?

Here?s something else you may not realize: the major record labels never lifted the no-return policy. It?s still in effect. We?ve never had the nerve to pass that burden onto our customers, and we don?t want to. What we would like to ask is that you have some understanding of this situation. We?ve gone against the grain. We?re working to keep vinyl alive. But only a relatively few record labels allow us to return product for replacement or reimbursement. That means that the majority of the time you send a record back to us, we eat the cost of that record.

We would never expect you to keep a record that was legitimately damaged. So then what constitutes a fair return? The short answer is that if a defect truly degrades your listening experience (notice, we did not say ?visual experience?), you should feel justified in returning it. But to send back a record that has one tiny tick that you can barely hear is not the way to support your hobby. The same goes for a record that has a small warp that you can?t hear or that you can effectively clamp. For example, a record that is not perfectly flat but that tracks fine and doesn?t have an audible ?thump? is not a defective record. Very few records are perfectly flat. A record with some discoloration in the vinyl or with a paper scuff that you can see but can?t hear is not a defective record.

Sure, you could make a technical case for the above-mentioned examples spelling defective records. But vinyl is not perfect. It?s much more delicate than CD. That?s the disadvantage of our preferred format. About half of the records returned to us are defective, meaning there are repetitive ticks or audible warps or nasty scratches etc. In the case of the other half, we?re scared that the replacement copy could be worse. Often times it is because the original copy had only miniscule imperfections. There was an invention for you people bothered by even the slightest surface noise. It?s called the compact disc.

Time was, you could go into your record store and they?d open a whole box of records for you to find that perfectly flat, pristine copy. Why? Because they could return all that they opened but didn?t sell. Those days are over. It?s an unfortunate fact, but let?s not lose sight of the good news: The majors did not succeed in killing vinyl. Thanks to people like you, vinyl will never die. In fact, there are more top-flight reissues coming off the presses than ever before. We?re in the heyday of audiophile vinyl. But when you return records that play almost flawlessly, you?re only hurting the companies that are providing those great records.

Another point to consider is that not all ?defects? are what you think of as a defect. In other words, some of what you may hear on a given record is inherent in that particular title?s recording, mastering or pressing. Also, when a record company hires a pressing plant to manufacture their records, they?re typically furnished with test pressings before that title is pressed en masse. The object of the test pressing is to allow the record company to identify any pressing defects so that the pressing plant may correct them. One problem is that not all record companies actually listen to their test pressings diligently. So when every copy of a title has the same tick in the same place, that is the fault of the record company and not of the pressing plant. In that case, returning your record for a replacement is futile. In fact, you?re taking a chance that your replacement will actually have a real defect and therefore be even less to your liking.

Our most important objective is to keep you as a happy customer. If returning a record ensures your satisfaction, then by all means send it back. But please keep the points detailed in this letter in mind before you return those marginal defects. By practicing a little tolerance, you can do a lot to help this industry.

Vinyl?s got CD licked when it comes to sound and collectability, but it can?t compete with CD?s durability. Which format?s imperfections bother you more? That answer ought to dictate how you spend your listening money.

Interesting read.

So now there's no need to bitch and whine in your complaints. Show some respect! : ok:

Are these issues exclusively for the us pressings, meaning there's no known issues with the european? I haven't listened to mine yet so I can't share my experience.

If this letter came from the american pressing plant that did Chinese Democracy, it's a little wierd. Don't you think? It's well written sort of, but it's a huge step admitting they too often deliver sub par sounding vinyl records. Is there only ONE us plant that has pressed chin dem vinyl records in the states?

This raises many questions in who's to "blame" for this obvious problem.

Is it the pressing plant that did a half assed job?

Or is it the record company, or who ever has the final listen, who didn't listen to the test pressings thourughly enough/all the way through, letting a poor sounding record being pressed?

Did the final version sound different from the test pressings?

Or is it that most fans simply doesn't understand vinyl as a format?

Not to take any sort of joy in this, but it'll be really interesting to see how this plays out. I mean if MOST us pressings, emphasizing MOST, this is a pretty huge fuck up in my opinion.

It's true whats being said, this record deserves better.

^^you're missing the whole point of that article or letter or whatever it is.

basically, it's from a retailer saying that major labels don't exchange LPs anymore, so when they get shit pressings, try to deal with it as best you can instead of returning it so that the retailer has to take the loss.

that's way different than our situation here.  The label chose an obviously cheap and poor-quality pressing, and jarmo is looking for comments to forward to the label that chose the pressing.

so our situation and that article are about a similar situation, from two extremely different viewpoints.

EDIT:  and I have about 700 or 800 LPs.  these are extremely low quality, and it's not the fans' misunderstanding of the format.  portishead third was an extremely poor pressing as well - fans everywhere have unplayably- warped vinyls because the gatefold was shitty.  my local record shop was stuck with 10 of them (all warped) and the label won't do anything about it.

sounds like the issues are with the record company since many of us have the inner groove distortion and skips here & there....

same record company who got the lyrics wrong in the CD booklet......Guns music did not deserve this....

Please explain: How am I missing the whole point?

Read my post again please.

I just want to say again that if there's any chance of something being done about these bad LPs, I sincerely appreciate the help.

Just to clarify, the letter came from a retailer in the US, and has nothing to do with Guns N' Roses, their record company, their record pressing plant, etc. It simply states that unfortunately sometimes records are pressed at lower quality and there is probably nothing you can do about it. Albeit, I'm itching to find out from Jarmo if there's anything that can be done about the Chinese Democracy pressing.

The same retailer that sent me this letter also stated that if I was unhappy with a record I purchased because it skipped or didn't sound (not looked) to be of a normal standard then I could return it, but to be aware that the retailer will take the hit on it, and to also be aware that it's also that retailer that's doing what they can to ensure they can still sell vinyl to us consumers. They could easily opt for the "CD way out" and not have to deal with this.

AA.

^^yea, that's pretty clear from reading it.  not sure what erose is getting at.

How can you not get that?

I'm wondering who's going to take the blame for this semi massive problem. Something must be done about this don't you think? I'm sure there's a good bunch of money and reputation involved etc.

A few of the questions I asked were, like I wrote, as if the record plant that did the pressing for Chinese Democracy in the U.S. wrote this letter.

I guess it came from a retailer, but the questions still stand.

Who's to fuckin blame for this and what will be and can be done about it? Do you understand that? I can't get any clearer.

To me, it sounds like the plant has fucked up. BUT, if these flawed records sound like the last test pressing then it's somebody else to blame.

Cases like these can go all the way to court so if you want to speculate about the issue, discuss it, you have to ask certain questions. Noone here places blame and thats fine, but someone is to blame i tell you and i wonder who it is and what will be done about it.

This might not be the right thread, but I still think it's worth a thread and a serious discussion.

^^i guess only the label and the press know for sure, but I am willing to bet money that the label made a contract with the cheapest press they could find.  seriously, this is one cheap-ass pressing..  at least they made it a gatefold hahah.

vinyl commands much higher prices, and i'm not sure why the record company chose to press a cheap ass album and sell it at $20 when they could have easily made it on 3 180g vinyls with a liner notes book and charged $40 for it.

EDIT:  and at 45 RPM (not 33)

I agree.  Even a decent standard weight pressing on 3 LPs would suffice over what many people received.  This goes to show you that even though that heavier is "better", it won't matter how heavy it is if the pressing is junk.

Even with all the issues,  I still listen to the CD LP all the time, I just have to get my S.O.D, IRS, and CITR fix via compact disc.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUGRRUecBik
Pretty cool, but where's the gloves? Aren't CDs made in lab like settings? Perhaps I'm wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3FQzwNzUE4&feature=related

 ;D

I'll repost what I wrote in an earlier thread:

I have opened up TWO copies of CD on vinyl and both have skips during Chinese Democracy, Better, If The World, and a few others!  The transfer sounds altogether bad too... I bought one copy from online and one from BB in the town I live. Very strange.. Anyone else have these problems? These are both brand new records skipping at the same places on their first spin!

update:

I have adjusted the weight gauge on my stylus (needle) arm and this eliminated 60% of the skips. I discussed this with a vinyl geek friend tonight, and he said it should have been put on 4 LP's, not squeezed onto two LP's. The information is ultra compressed, thus leaving tighter grooves for the needle and compromising the sound. (notice IRS in particular sounds like shit, but has no skips)

If you don't have a weight gauge attach a penny or quarter to your stylus...

How come the european version is flawless? It's pressed on 2 discs.

I'll have to set up the old record player. This record deserves the vinyl treatment. European style! 8)

^^yes, but this still doesn't eliminate the inner groove distortion which, IMO, is a much more severe problem

Is it really?  i didn't know this.  is there a thread anywhere with multiple reports of no fingerprints and no inner groove distortion?  if so, i might have to order a european pressing

 Like GNR Baby states, the inner grooves on an LP are much smaller,  although the information itself is not "compressed" like an MP3, it is just more information for the stylus to read in a smaller area....when the stylus cannot read the information to its fullest, distortion occurs.  In this regard, the music itself plays a factor with inner groove distortion, and therefore the music itself should play a factor in how many LPs an album should be.  The more information the music has, the higher chance for inner groove distortion and a bigger need for additional LPs to prevent it.   

For instance, because Chin Dem has so many layers of guitars, synths, keyboards, and more than a few mere power cords, that translates into more information that the stylus needs to pick up.  High notes are also more information sensitive, and we all know axl and the band can hit the high notes.  So chin dem is the type of music that would benefit from at least 3 LPs to prevent this.  It is possible that even a great 2 LP pressing of Chin Dem would suffer from bad inner groove distortion. 

On the other hand, less complex music with less "going on" equals less information for the stylus and therefore could be fine with one or two LPs. For instance, on a Britney Spears LP, the songs on the inner grooves will sound just as good as the outer grooves.   

I'm only asuming this since there's no discussion about it or people who has complaints.

I haven't listened to either of mine yet so I can't say.

But till people tell me otherwise this is an exclusive problem for at least a batch, if not all, of the u.s. pressings.

jarmo, do you have a copy of the european pressing (if there even is a different european pressing)?  do those have this inner groove distortion?

Yes I have it.

I'll get back to you on that.



/jarmo

^^^^^^^^

do let us know! 

Listened to Street Of Dreams and Catcher In The Rye.

From what I can tell, they sound better. No skipping at all.....


The inner sleeves alone are better quality than the plain white ones that are in the US edition. These are made out of black paper with a plastic coating on the inside.

Also, there are no smudges/finger prints on the LPs.




/jarmo

Good news!

 8)

Hopefully, I'll be getting my record player by April.

jarmo, can you confirm that there is no inner groove distortion on the european pressing?

just looking at amazon.co.uk, and the vinyl there sells for ?17.59, which is about twice the price of the US pressing.

I guess you get what you pay for, eh?

does anyone in europe know of a cheaper source for this?

I didn't listen to all the tracks.

So I'm not gonna starts promising anything like that..... Sorry.


As I said, the two tracks I listened to didn't skip and there were no finger prints on the vinyls.





/jarmo

I may have to look into getting a UK edition...it is about $40 bucks here in the states.

^^where can you buy it in the states?  anyone know if it's easily available in canada?

There are a couple american retailers that sell it on ebay for about $35-40, plus you can buy it from a UK dealer on ebay as well....


Also, this cartridge reduces the inner groove distortion somewhat on Chin Dem, and has eliminated it on all of my other LPs entirely.

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC05&Category_Code=A3

I bought the vinyl in Norway. No skips, no smudges, no fingerprints....   :)  Played flawless all the way through all 4 sides.

The inlay which holds the records are rough paper with smooth silky/plastic material on the inside. As I understand it, the US version was rough paper only... Correct?

The european press does have inner groove distortion, the final tracks on all sides are terrible quality. I have a top spec turntable and stylus, its no mistake, if its bad on that its will be worse on budget turntables.
Also sometimes records have the occasional skip, if you cant see a mark or scratch where it skips then the records will probably lose that skip when its been broken in. A simple trick is just move the record back and forth slowly over the point that skips, with the stylus obviously on the record. Just doing that for 30 seconds or so will often clean out the groove and remove the jump.

Its only the people from the US complaining loudly because so many copies look like they have been kicked around the factory floor for fun. I've bought thousands of records over the years and never came across what people described after getting CD at Best Buy.
Records look like that after being thrown around, or at best, a crazy accident that sent thousands of albums flying across the factory floor.

So thgis means that the actual master record is shitty then right?

Or can this be a problem simply because there are "to much music" forced onto each disc?

Well, all records will lose quality as it approaches the inside, but its barely noticable in most cases or not noticable at all.
UYI 1 and 2  sound great on vinyl, the quality does lessen on the inner song but its not really that bad.

Street Of Dreams is unlistenable on my copy of CD, IRS is bad, Catcher is terrible - the outro loses all bass completely.

To get the full experience of superior sound quality of vinyl, you need records with a song on each side, 12" singles will give the very best sound. 2 songs on each side will sound great as well, once you start going above that sound quality will lessen.
Albums pressed onto vinyl will all suffer from  it as more than one song is on each side, but it shouldnt ruin the experience. UYI on vinyl sounds much better than cd, everything is so vivid and distinct. But for the inner songs, cd is better.

The whole vinyl revival came about because mp3's sound crap, not because cd is suddenly crap.

I think part of the problem is that modern press's do actually try and create the best sound quality by having broad deep grooves, but they dont take take into account the space required, so they sometimes end up cramming in more grooves at the end of the record to squeeze in all the songs.

If they simply calibrated the length of data, the space required  for evenly spaced grooves, the record should have the same standard of sound quality all the way through.
I listen to my parents LPs from the 60's and 70's and they dont have inner groove distortion. The volume is a lot lower than higher quality presses but the volume and sound quality is consistant all the way through the record.

I have 2 copies of the vinyl bought in the Uk and both are absolutely fine - no prints or inner-groove issues or any issue with condition of them at all.

I have inner groove distortion on my european copy. I bought it in Sweden on the day the store got it (Nov. 26th)

Yeah, I pre-ordered mine from a Swedish retailer.

The vinyls look better and I didn't notice skips (like I have on the US copy), but the distortion is still there.



/jarmo

^^^^

Thanks for the info Jarmo...

sounds like it should have been a 3 or 4 LP set.

I listened to the whole thing again yesterday. It's such a bummer how much better then the CD the songs sound until you get to the distortion.

jarmo, any news on this?

Not really.

As far as I know, people are aware of the issues.


Hopefully these will be corrected in future pressings.




/jarmo

As soon as there's a corrected pressing out there as long as I can identify it, I'll pick it up.

I can't remember if I asked this but;

Are there pressings out there that don't have these issues? There's anyway to tell them apart and get a chance of purchasing one that sounds great from start to finish, I'll glad pay again.

i was just listening to mine ( european release) and i don't have skips, but the last tracks on each side sound distorted and well... weird...

How many of the songs have inner groove distortion? Is it (usually) the last two or only the last track?

Can anybody comment or confirm on this?

Thank you.

The ending of SOD, middle to end of Catcher, and almost all of IRS.  It will also very depending on turntable and cartridge/stylus.

Thank you.

I bought my vinyl the first day and I haven't had any problems with it, it's a little scraped up in some areas but every song plays without skips.

The vinyl is probably one of the worst sounding vinyls I have however, I buy vinyl for the superior sound, but you just really never get it on CD.  It's disappointing to sound the least.

I wanted to bump this as a service to anyone still looking to hear the last few songs on each side in good quality.

I upgraded my stylus yesterday to the Audio Technica AT440MLa. The ML stands for "Micro Line" and I've read that this particular stylus is exceptional when it comes to inner groove distortion. I'm happy to report that the last song on each side sounds absolutely perfect with this new stylus. It's flat out amazing what a difference it made.

So, my biggest recommendation for those looking to hear Chinese the best way possible is to get this stylus!

You sir are a legend...  :beer:

Just glad to be of help to anyone trying to hear this album the way it was meant to be heard  :)

I was honestly shocked and I mean SHOCKED the first time I listened to The Blues with this stylus. Everything from Robin's solo on used to sound like complete garbage and now everything all the way up to the final echo of the synth is absolutely perfect!

Wow that sounds super cool thank you for that tip : ok:

Here's the link for it on Audio Techica's website:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/cartridges/2cafc1c694070c54/index.html

As you'll see, the MSRP is $362.00 but I was able to get it for a little under $200 just by shopping around a little bit.

with the rising popularity of vinyl these days maybe we'll get another edition of this. My fear is that they printed too many copies the first time and it didn't sell well in this format. Now, you can pick up CD on LP for $10 in the US. I bought one last week for $10 and the copy was clean without prints or dirt. No improved sound (not that I expected that)