Here Today... Gone To Hell!

2009 FIA Formula One World Championship Race Calendar
01    2009 FORMULA 1 ING AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX (Melbourne)    27 - 29 Mar
02    2009 FORMULA 1 PETRONAS MALAYSIAN GRAND PRIX (Kuala Lumpur)    03 - 05 Apr
03    2009 FORMULA 1 CHINESE GRAND PRIX (Shanghai)    17 - 19 Apr
04    2009 FORMULA 1 GULF AIR BAHRAIN GRAND PRIX (Sakhir)    24 - 26 Apr
05    FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA TELEFONICA 2009 (Catalunya)    08 - 10 May
06    FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2009 (Monte Carlo)    22 - 24 May
07    2009 FORMULA 1 TURKISH GRAND PRIX (Istanbul)    05 - 07 Jun
08    2009 FORMULA 1 SANTANDER BRITISH GRAND PRIX (Silverstone)    19 - 21 Jun
09    FORMULA 1 GROSSER PREIS SANTANDER VON DEUTSCHLAND 2009 (Nürburgring)    10 - 12 Jul
10    FORMULA 1 ING MAGYAR NAGYDIJ 2009 (Budapest)    24 - 26 Jul
11    2009 FORMULA 1 TELEFONICA GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE (Valencia)    21 - 23 Aug
12    2009 FORMULA 1 ING BELGIAN GRAND PRIX (Spa-Francorchamps)    28 - 30 Aug
13    FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO SANTANDER D'ITALIA 2009 (Monza)    11 - 13 Sep
14    2009 FORMULA 1 SINGAPORE GRAND PRIX (Singapore)    25 - 27 Sep
15    2009 FORMULA 1 FUJI TELEVISION JAPANESE GRAND PRIX (Suzuka)    02 - 04 Oct
16    FORMULA 1 GRANDE PREMIO DO BRASIL 2009 (Sao Paulo)    16 - 18 Oct
17    2009 FORMULA 1 ETIHAD AIRWAYS ABU DHABI GRAND PRIX (Yas Marina Circuit)    30 Oct - 01 Nov

---

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes    
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Heikki Kovalainen

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro    
3. Felipe Massa
4. Kimi Räikkönen

BMW Sauber F1 Team
5. Robert Kubica
6. Nick Heidfeld

ING Renault F1 Team    Renault    
7. Fernando Alonso
8. Nelson Piquet Jr.

Panasonic Toyota Racing
9. Jarno Trulli
10. Timo Glock

Scuderia Toro Rosso
11. Sebastien Bourdais
12. Sébastien Buemi

Red Bull Racing    
14. Mark Webber
15. Sebastian Vettel

AT&T Williams F1 Team    
16. Nico Rosberg
17. Kazuki Nakajima

Force India F1 Team    
20. Adrian Sutil
21. Giancarlo Fisichella

Brawn GP
22. Jenson Button
23. Rubens Barrichello


There are no cars with numbers 18 and 19.


/jarmo

Takuma Sato should slot in in the Toro Rosso and looks like Buemi will be his team mate. Looks like a strong team there.

S?bastien Buemi was officially announced as a driver today.


/jarmo

The cars look... Different.....




/jarmo

BMW is nicest   : ok: ... IMHO ... yeah, cars are strange






-velimir

Set up the F1 game thread, por favor.

ugly i think the word is

New safety car rules for 2009

FIA race director Charlie Whiting has confirmed that the safety car rules have been altered for the 2009 season. The previous regulations, which saw the pit lane closed for a period of time after the safety car?s deployment, came under intense scrutiny last year after several drivers were penalised for pitting to avoid running out of fuel.

The revisions for 2009, however, will see the pit lane remain open at all times. But to prevent drivers rushing back to the pits (the reason for the original rule change), a new electronic system, which uses the standard engine control unit (ECU), will be implemented.

?The rule introduced in 2007 was a bad one, and we?ve gone back to the 2006 regulations,? Whiting explained. ?The only difference is we intend to implement a minimum time back to the pits. When we deploy the safety car, the message will go to all the cars, which will then have a ?safety car? mode on their ECUs.

?As soon as that message gets to the car, it?ll know where it is on the circuit, and it?ll calculate a minimum time for the driver to get back to the pits. The driver will have to respect this and the information will be displayed on his dashboard.

?If you remember, the reason we closed the pit entry was to remove the incentive for the driver to come back to his pit quickly. That?s gone now, as you won?t be able to reach the pits any quicker than your dashboard display allows you to.?

The teams have already sampled a version of the new system after taking part in a trial, which was held during the 2008 French Grand Prix weekend.




/jarmo

29 days until the first practice session in Australia...




/jarmo

Green band to distinguish softer tyres in 2009 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/2/8961.html)




/jarmo

Honda are back!!! :beer:

Honda team to return as Brawn GP (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7927488.stm)

The former Honda Formula One team has been saved and will contest the 2009 season as Brawn GP.

The Honda Motor Company Limited and ex-Honda boss Ross Brawn, 54, have reached agreement to preserve the team.

Britain's Jenson Button and Brazilian veteran Rubens Barrichello, last year's Honda line-up, will continue to drive for the British-based team.

Brawn GP will use Mercedes engines when the new F1 season starts in Australia on 29 March.

Honda pulled out of F1 in December as a result of the global financial crisis, leaving the team to search desperately for a buyer.

A statement, released on the new Brawn GP website, did not reveal the financial details of the buyout or whether Honda's 700 staff would remain in their jobs.

Brawn, a former Ferrari technical director, said: "The past few months have been extremely challenging for the team but today's announcement is the very pleasing conclusion to the strenuous efforts that have been made to secure its future.

"Firstly, it is a great shame that having worked with Honda Motor Company for so long we can no longer continue together.

"I would like to thank Honda for the fantastic co-operation and support we have received throughout this process, particularly those members of the senior management who were closely involved with concluding our agreement, and for the faith they have demonstrated in myself and our team."

Brawn, who joined Honda at the start of last season, added that he was delighted to retain the same driving line-up.

"The vast experience and knowledge that both drivers bring to our team will prove invaluable as we aim to get up to speed in the shortest possible time to be ready for the first race of the season," he said.

"In what will be their fourth season together, their experience with our team in Brackley, our systems and our engineers, will prove a real asset."

He added: "I would like to express particular appreciation for the support we have received from Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, the FIA (Federation Internationale de L'Automobile), FOM (Formula One Management), Fota (Formula One Teams Association) ... and our many fans the world over.

"The journey ahead will be challenging but exciting and we know we can count on their continued enthusiasm for our team and its ambitions."
   
Hiroshi Oshima, managing officer of Honda Motor Company Limited, wished Brawn well in his new role as team owner.

"Since announcing our withdrawal from Formula One racing on 5 December of last year, we have conducted various studies and discussions so that the team can continue its activities as a new team," said Oshima.

"We are very pleased that we could sell the team to Ross Brawn, with whom we have been partaking in the challenges of F1 competition, and are grateful for his decision. We offer our sincerest wishes for the new team which will be led by Ross."

Brawn GP will attend the remaining pre-season tests, in Barcelona starting on 9 March and Jerez starting on 15 March.

With the team's survival, Formula One will start the season with 10 teams - one fewer than at the beginning of 2008 before Super Aguri folded.

That's great.

Finally they confirmed it.





/jarmo

So glad to see Honda will be racing again this year. I've got a lot of hope for the new car.

What does the red color mean? Tentative?  :confused:

A summary of 2009 F1 rule changes for those who want to know. (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8692/)

Rubens Barrichello and BrawnGP = 2009 F1 champions!  :beer:

Yes, I believe!  : ok:

No, changes.  :P

New circuit, new team, new driver for the team....


/jarmo

Jarmo, will we have the F1 game this year?

I guess it's possible...



/jarmo

So, not even Canada this year?  ::)
We really need that American team with the female driver in asap....

Driver with most race wins to become 2009 champion

Formula One racing?s governing body, the FIA, has approved a change to the points systems for this year?s drivers? championship, which will see the title awarded to the driver with the most race wins. The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system.

If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the existing 10, 8, 6 etc. structure. The constructors? championship is unaffected.



/jarmo

I really like this change.


I do worry that it's going to make the drivers push a a little to much and we could see more accidents.

Technically you could win a championship by winning just a few races early on in the season.

The championship could be decided in May. If one driver has won several races up until then and then the rest of the wins are divided between several drivers...

You could just finish four races all year and be the champion. If you win them.... So the reliability of the car isn't that important. Winning is.




I don't know why they rejected the idea to give a winner more points.



/jarmo

I actually thought about that after my post.


the winner getting more points would have made more sense.

it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out and if they will keep it for the next season.

I don't like the rear wing/spoiler at all. I think it looks horrible.

Is this what you were talking about with the cars looking 'different' Jarmo?

Yeah.

Does anybody think overtaking will be easier?

KERS is supposed to help, but it can be used to keep a faster car behind you too....





The FIA is really trying hard to confuse everybody.

For this season we got all kinds of new rules and regulations.

That'll change in 2010....





/jarmo

I think there will be a lot of uproar from drivers, owners, and fans if it does turn out that the faster cars will be held up by slower cars simply becasue they are unable to pass.



Will there be even more changes in 2010? Are there talks of an entirely different format?

It's funny how much all the racing leagues have changed in this decade.

 :-\

Makes me sick.

Today I read about a proposed budget cap....




/jarmo

Looks like the proposed rule change will be delayed for a year.

Looks like the three teams with their own interpretation of the diffuser rule were fastest in today's practice sessions...

No wonder the rest are protesting.



/jarmo

3 of the top 5 favorites didnt even make it to Q3 and Massa finished 7th and kimi 9th!  :confused:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/3/9070.html




Universal Music Group International and its JV company All The Worlds is pleased to announce the signing of an agreement with Formula One Administration Limited creating F1 ROCKS?, a pioneering and electrifying new global entertainment platform.

F1 ROCKS? fuses the world?s most popular annual sporting series with the most iconic music stars to create an unrivalled experience for F1? and music fans alike. At the core of F1 ROCKS? is a series of spectacular multi-artist live music events from glamorous Formula 1? race locations around the world. The combination of live performances from the world?s biggest acts together with stars from the world of movies, sport and fashion will create TV shows & Digital content that will be broadcast and streamed to a global audience.

?The partnership between the world's most thrilling sport and the world's biggest music company is one of the most exciting entertainment initiatives to be launched anywhere,? said Lucian Grainge, Chairman/CEO of Universal Music Group International.

?The combination of music, megastars and motor sport will create a groundbreaking, all-new entertainment spectacular, channeled through the multiple platforms open to our two global brands. I'm very much looking forward to working with Bernie. He had the imagination to see the potential in F1 Rocks from the very beginning, and we want to make it a huge success on a global scale."

Bernie Ecclestone, CEO of the Formula One Group added: ?I have always said that we are in the entertainment business and this deal marks a new dimension for Formula One. It is the result of many months of discussions with Lucian and I am very pleased we are now ready to go. Universal are the biggest players in the music industry and we have high hopes for what we can achieve together.?

The Toyotas were disqualified.




/jarmo

McLaren disqualified from Australian Grand Prix

The McLaren team has been disqualfied from the Australian Grand Prix following a detailed stewards' investigation into the incident involving the Englishman and Jarno Trulli on Sunday; the World Champion passed the Toyota under safety car conditions as the Italian ran off the circuit, before then slowing to allow Trulli to retake his position.

For repassing the McLaren, the Toyota driver was handed with a 25-second time penalty which resulted in him losing both his podium position and indeed any chance of points, as the tightly packed field finished the race under the safety car. As Toyota withdrew what would be a seemingly hopeless appeal this week, Trulli reminded onlookers of his version of events: "When the safety car came out towards the end of the race, Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road. I thought he had a problem, so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."

Hamilton admitted to passing the Toyota as it ran across the grass at Turn 15, subsequently explaining that his team then instructed him to yield to Trulli. "I was behind Trulli under the safety car, and clearly you're not allowed to overtake under the safety car but he went off in the second to last corner," he explained to SpeedTV on Sunday. "He went wide and onto the grass, I guess his tyres were cold. I slowed down as much as I could, but was forced to go by. I was then told to let him back past, but I don't know if that's in the regulations and, if it isn't, I should really have had third."

Despite those comments, however, the stewards claim that Hamilton made no mention of this during their post-race investigation into the incident just minutes later, stating that he infact did not slow down to allow the Toyota to retake the place. Having received a recording of McLaren's radio broadcast during the race, the FIA has removed entire team from the final results of the race for providing 'deliberately misleading' information. This includes the second driver, Heikki Kovalainen, who will effectively not suffer the consequences having retired at the end of the first lap.

The governing body has also lifted Trulli's penalty, which places the Toyota driver back into the third position he originally achieved in Australia.


http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/04/02/mclaren-disqualified-from-australian-grand-prix/ (http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/04/02/mclaren-disqualified-from-australian-grand-prix/)

Baldisserri gets factory role in reshuffle

By Jonathan Noble    
Monday, April 13th 2009, 15:06 GMT

Ferrari has announced a restructuring of its trackside operations in a bid to turn around its disastrous start to the season - with team manager Luca Baldisserri being switched to a factory-based role.

Following crisis talks at Maranello last week to discuss why the outfit has failed to score a point in the first two races of the year, its worst start to a campaign since 1992, the team has ramped up efforts to ensure it changes the situation as soon as possible.

As part of that bid to help improve the performance, the team has decided to set up a new Working Party to fast-track car improvements that are essential if Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa are to start delivering the results needed to keep them in the title hunt.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74449



/jarmo

FIA declares double diffuser designs legal
The FIA appeal court has declared the double-decker diffuser designs used by Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams as legal

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74475




/jarmo

This season is becoming boring.

Good for Jenson and Brawn, but it's not very exciting when the same team and driver wins every race..... Well that wouldn't be bad if somebody else had a shot at winning and Jenson just beat them by being a better driver. That's not really the case now though.


I wonder how happy Bernie and Max will be once they realize the TV viewers and ticket buyers find other things to spend their time/money on when the championship is decided before the summer is over.

On top of that, they're trying hard to kill F1 by making it a low budget racing series without the top names in motor sports.




/jarmo

New York Post, Wednesday, May 13, 2009

MAMA MIA! FERRARI MULLS F1 PULLOUT
By LENN ROBBINS

Imagine baseball without the Yankees, basketball without the Celtics, football without the Cowboys. That's what Formula One racing would be like without the legendary Ferrari race team.

The Italian team burned some serious rubber yesterday when it announced after a board meeting in Italy that it was considering pulling out of Formula One racing because of a disagreement with International Automobile Federation's (FIA) World Motor Sport Council over a controversial rules change.

The FIA is proposing a budget cap beginning in 2010 that Ferrari claims would create a "two-tier series" within Formula One.

The proposed cap of 45 million Euros, approximately $60 million U.S. dollars, has Ferrari ready to put it in reverse, according to a statement released yesterday.

"The [Ferrari] Board considers that if this is the regulatory framework for Formula 1 in the future, then the reasons underlying Ferrari's uninterrupted participation in the World Championship over the last 60 years -- the only constructor to have taken part ever since its inception in 1950 -- would come to a close."

Ferrari dealerships in New York and Connecticut declined to comment on the developments, directing inquiries to their headquarters, Ferrari North America of Englewood Cliffs, N.J.

In an e-mail, Ferrari's public-relations coordinator, Steven Ford, said, "Sorry, but there isn't anything we can help you out with from here."

However, one New England dealer told The Post he doubted Ferrari's proposed pullout would ever get in gear.

"My guess is they would never do that," Jesse Berger, the finance manager at Ferrari-Maserati of New England, said.

"Formula One is like a soap opera. There's always a lot of drama over rules changes."

But it's hard for Formula One aficionados to remember drama like this. No Ferrari? Mama Mia!

Teams that stay beneath the cap will have more freedom to share and implement technical advancements. The idea is to make Formula One more competitive for the smaller companies that don't have the financial clout of a Ferrari.

FIA's deadline of May 29 to file entries for the 2010 championship has exacerbated an already volatile situation. Ferrari president Luca Di Montezemolo is expected to meet with FIA president Max Mosley in the next few days to discuss the situation.

Why waste the money if you aren't allowed to compete properly?

I hope the FIA makes the necessary changes, if they don't, I'll give Ferrari a pat on the back for doing what is right.

It's not only Ferrari. It's them along with Renault, Toyota, Red Bull, Toro Rosso.....




/jarmo

Flashback to last years race, Kimi had a real bad day practically running over another car on the track. Hopefully he can get things turned around here in Monte Carlo. I've always enjoyed this race thru the streets of what seems to be a really beautiful city.  :)

'FERRARI TO SIGN UP, TOYOTA TO QUIT'
Friday 29th May 2009
http://www.planetf1.com (http://www.planetf1.com)


Ferrari and the other FOTA members, barring Toyota, are all expected to sign up for next year's Championship by the close of play today.

The teams have until today, Friday 29th May, to sign up for the 2010 Formula One season after Max Mosley pushed forward the deadline.

However, in the build-up to D-Day there has been a great deal of political tension between the teams and Mosley as the FIA President put into place plans to introduce a budget cap and two-tier regulations that would favour those agreeing to the cap.

This resulted in some of the teams; Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota; threatening to quit the sport.

But after weeks of wrangling, the two parties have reportedly agreed to a ?85m restriction in 2010 with the cap dropping to ?40m the following season. There will also be one set of regulations for all teams while the existing teams have undertaken to help out any new entrants by supplying cheap parts and technical expertise.

"We are not meant to say anything, but you can expect Ferrari and the others to sign up," an insider told the Daily Mail.

Meanwhile, the Telegraph is reporting that Ferrari's 'entry will be conditional on the response of the FIA, the sport's governing body, to a proposal submitted this morning by the Formula One Teams Association. The proposal will demand assurances regarding the stability, governance and rule-making within the sport.'

But while Ferrari are expected to sign up, one team that reportedly won't is Toyota as the Japanese manufacturer is believed to be pulling out of Formula One at the end of the season.

'As for Toyota, they are looking for an elegant exit. Their Formula One project has failed to deliver fruit, despite annual expenditure of around ?300m,' claimed the Daily Mail.

'With their fellow Japanese manufacturers Honda having withdrawn last December, they can depart without too much embarrassment at home. Grand prix racing can live without them, if not Ferrari.'

The FIA will announce the names of next season's participants on June 12.

What a boring season this has turned out to be.....

 :-\



/jarmo

FOTA teams to launch breakaway series

By Jonathan Noble    Thursday, June 18th 2009, 22:43 GMT

The Formula One Teams' Association announced on Thursday night that it is setting up a breakaway championship.

Following a four-hour meeting at Renault's Enstone factory, the eight members of FOTA - Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber, Toyota, Brawn, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso - said they had grown frustrated with the FIA's stance against the organisation, and had no option but to create a series of their own.

"The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship," said a statement issued by FOTA after the meeting.

"These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.

"The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series."

F1 teams were given until Friday evening to remove the conditions attached to the provisional entries they posted earlier this month, or risk being left off the grid in 2010.

FIA president Max Mosley wrote to the teams yesterday offering them some of the concessions that they wanted to see regarding governance of the sport, but made it clear that he was sticking to plans for the introduction of a budget cap.

In his letter, Mosley also urged the teams to sign up to the championship before sorting out the final version of the regulations and a redrafted Concorde Agreement.

In response to that letter, the teams met at Renault's Enstone headquarters on Thursday evening for lengthy talks, where they finally decided that there was no way a compromise deal could be reached with the FIA.

The teams expressed frustration that their efforts to try and improve F1 had been rebuffed by the governing body and the sport's commercial rights holder.

"Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport," said the statement.

"Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport.

"In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future.

"Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.

"The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA.

"The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise."

The announcement by FOTA looks certain to overshadow the British Grand Prix, which takes place at Silverstone for the final time this weekend and which Mosley is expected to attend tomorrow.

With FOTA's stance now seemingly leaving no room for a deal possible, it's likely that more new teams will be added to the FIA's 2010 Formula 1 entry list.

The inclusion of Ferrari, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso on that roster remains open to debate, however, with the FIA claiming that the teams committed themselves to F1 in a deal agreed several years ago.




/jarmo

Lovely racing series.

LONDON -- Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone faced criticism from politicians and Jewish groups Saturday after being quoted as saying that Adolf Hitler "got things done."

In an interview with London's The Times newspaper, Ecclestone expressed a preference for "strong leaders," citing former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher and Max Mosley, outgoing head of Formula One's governing body, as examples.

He was quoted as saying that democracy "hasn't done a lot of good for many countries -- including this one."

"In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done," Ecclestone was quoted as saying.

"In the end he got lost, so he wasn't a very good dictator."

Ecclestone also said the West had been wrong to depose Iraq's Saddam Hussein, saying: "He was the only one who could control that country."

The Board of Deputies of British Jews told The Times that Ecclestone's views were "quite bizarre," and Jewish Chronicle editor Stephen Pollard said he was "either an idiot or morally repulsive." Labour Party lawmaker Denis MacShane told the newspaper that the remarks revealed ignorance of history and "a complete lack of judgment."

Calls to Ecclestone's London office were not immediately returned Saturday.

Ecclestone, who owns F1's commercial rights, is no stranger to controversial remarks. He once said women should dress in white "like all other domestic appliances."

In The Times interview, Ecclestone said that had been a joke, adding: "I would love to have a good lady race driver and preferably black and Jewish, too, but they might take maternity leave."


Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press






Shouldn't he be glad Hitler made some bad decisions?  Like Dunkirk?

Is this what the people who run F1 have to offer to the public?

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned Massa's accident here.
I really hate the Ferrari team so at first I was happy to see a Ferrari go off. But when I saw the replay it send a shiver down my spine. It instantly reminded me of Henry Surtees's crash last week. I really hope Massa pulls through.

Massa is out from racing for a while, it seems....and now Renault has been banned from Valencia...I wonder if Briatore would release Alonso to race in his home grand prix in a red car?

Thinking of Massa 24/7, Wishing him well, hope he pulls through :beer:

Exit BMW.. maybe Toyota and Renault will follow soon (they're about to sign the Concorde agreement which legaly makes them committed to 2012).

But that's what you get with those bloody factory teams, no commitment, no full racing heart (F1 is good promo for our normal activities) and once results are a bit down, we'll just bail ::)

Hopefully another new entry (private team) will take over BMW, like Superfund, Lola, Prodrive or N Epsalon. F1 needs a full 26 car starting field for next year with lots of private teams. Cause the more factory teams are present the more money spent and I think many will agree that those small private teams just had something the cold factory teams don't have.. teams like Jordan, Prost, Arrows etc.

Ferrari planning to substitute Schumacher for Massa

Ferrari announced on Wednesday that they plan to draft in Michael Schumacher to replace the injured Felipe Massa at forthcoming Grands Prix, until the Brazilian is able to race again.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9703.html



/jarmo

Renault fired Piquet....

Not surprising.




/jarmo

There seems to be two kinds of people regarding the Piquet case, the first camp says the team is to blame, not enough support, lack of care updates compared to Alonso etc. just didn't have a good chance and the second camp says support or not, Piquet really hasn't shown anything worthwhile at all in the Renualt in the past few years. Not a single moment which said 'hey, now that prooves the guy can really drive right there'.

Personally, I belong to the 2nd camp.. doesn't matter about being good in previous classes, if you can't make it in F1 then you don't belong there. I remember a Ricardo Rosset being very fast in lower classes and even in F3000, only to end up as one of the worst F1 drivers ever. (Youtube his name and you'll see why, apart from not being fast - his problem was with braking late, couldn't handle that as Arrows '96 date showed). Sure Piquet had a podium last year in Germany, but that was mainly luck in the rain. Maybe he's a decent driver who'll be good in other classes (touringcars etc.) but I don't think in F1.

But, it looks like Piquet Sr. is gonna take over the BMW team along with the teamowner of the GP2 Super Nova team.. so he'll probably have a drive next year.

Interesting note aside about Bourdais, the Dutch commentator mentioned last week that Bourdais' problem was with driving a car that had a little amount of fuel in it, not so much with driving the car when it was tanked off. But appearantly Bourdais didn't have the right reaction time for it, they found this out at the RBR simulator which all the RBR drivers had to go through. They could see in the simulator that for example he was reacting to late when the car was understeering. Appearantly Brendon Hartley, the 19y old Red Bull testdriver who was let go some weeks ago aswell, had the same thing and that's why he wasn't put in Sebastien's seat but Jami was, cause he came out fine in the simulator.

To be honest, I think it's a combination of both.

He might not be the exceptional driver, but I also don't think he ever got a fair shot at Renault.

The team is built around Alonso.

No fucking way was he gonna allow himself to be beaten by a rookie, like he did in 2007, again.


People use him (Alonso) as an example of a guy who gets the whole team behind him in pushing forward. Well it's always easier to get things done when you're clearly the #1 in the team and have their full support.




/jarmo

Injuries force Schumacher to call off F1 comeback
BERLIN, Tue Aug 11, 07:29 AM

Michael Schumacher on Tuesday announced he has called off his much-anticipated Formula One comeback because of lingering injuries from a motorcycling crash earlier this year.

The seven-time world champion was to fill in for injured Ferrari driver Felipe Massa and hoped to return at this month's European Grand Prix in Valencia, Spain.

Schumacher said on his Web site he informed top Ferrari officials on Monday evening that "unfortunately I'm not able to step in for Felipe."

Schumacher, 40, retired at the end of the 2006 season. Since then, he has raced occasionally in a motorcycling series but was injured in a crash in February.

"The consequences of the injuries caused by the bike accident in February, fractures in the area of head and neck, unfortunately have turned out to be still too severe," Schumacher said. "That is why my neck cannot stand the extreme stresses caused by Formula One yet.

"I really tried everything to make that temporary comeback possible. However, much to my regret it didn't work out," he added.

"Unfortunately we did not manage to get a grip on the pain in the neck" which arose after he tested an old Ferrari at the Mugello circuit in Italy, Schumacher said.

The German won 91 races in 250 starts in an F1 career spanning 15 years beginning in 1991.

"I am disappointed to the core. I am awfully sorry for the guys of Ferrari and for all the fans which crossed fingers for me," Schumacher said.

"All I can do now is to keep my fingers crossed for the whole team for the coming races."

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo thanked Schumacher for his loyalty to the team in attempting an F1 comeback.

"I am very unhappy that a problem means that Michael cannot return to racing," Montezemolo said. "In the past few days, I could appreciate his great efforts and extraordinary motivation which had spread through the team and fans around the world.

"No doubt his return would have been good for Formula One and I am sure it would have seen him fighting for wins again," he added. "In the name of Ferrari and all the fans, I wish to thank him for the strong attachment he displayed for the team in these circumstances."

Ferrari announced that team test driver Luca Badoer will race in Massa's place at Valencia. Badoer, an Italian, was first floated by Italian media after a crash took Massa off the race circuit.

The 28-year-old Massa underwent surgery on multiple skull fractures after he was hit in the helmet by a loose part from another car and crashed into a protective tire barrier during qualifying for Ferrari at the Hungarian Grand Prix last month.

Montezemolo said Ferrari decided to give Badoer "the chance to race for the Scuderia after he has put in so many years of hard work as a test driver."

Last week Schumacher said he was slimming down for the race, but complained of some neck pain.

"I only have to admit that my neck pinches a bit. We have to get a grip on that as health has priority ? that's the clear arrangement made with Ferrari and, by the way, with my wife, too," Schumacher said.

Damn, I was soooo looking forward to watching Lewis Hamilton vs. Schumacher. Oh well...

Really?


A Schumacher that wasn't allowed to drive the car before the race (thanks to the test ban).

The same goes for the new guy at Toro Rosso.

This test ban is ridiculous!

You design a car and if it turns out to be crap, too bad! Try again next year!



/jarmo

Well that was mainly because Renault didn't agree to let Ferrari test.

I agree with the test ban (at least in principle). Track testing costs a lot of money. That means teams like Ferrari and McLaren can test to their hearts delight to get their cars right. Other lesser fortunate teams have to plan their testing and restrict it to a maximum of maybe 3 times a year. That's hardly fair. Besides, there's always race practice :)

Williams and the Red Bull teams didn't let Ferrari test because the rules are the same for everyone. Which is a fair point.


I'm sure there are other ways of limiting testing instead of a complete ban.

Right now young drivers can't get any F1 experience as test drivers before making their race debuts.





/jarmo

Yes, but this wasn't like Toro Rosso who fired their driver in the middle of the season. It was because of an unfortunate accident and I'm sure
they could have made the exception. After all if teams like Brawn and Mclaren have no problems, why should Williams?


Yes, but it's the same for everyone isn't it? The cars keep changing as teams make modifications throughout the season and even seasoned F1 drivers
can only test the car during practice.

Williams are a former big team who hasn't won in years. I'm sure they'll use whatever power they have to benefit themselves...


I think the system with a third driver who did testing work was better than what we have now.

It's become more apparent now with the recent events...




/jarmo

They cut out in-season testing to save money. And as you can see right now it's still possible to have a good car turn bad and a bad car turn fast (Brawn and McLaren).

As far as I'm concerned they can keep the in-season testing ban to save money. However a change which says replacement drivers are allowed to test a certain mileage should be made though

And how fair would that be? They could test new parts and get valuable tests that nobody else would.

Of course it's possible to develop your car without testing, but is that really the way F1 should be?




/jarmo

I think the current rules are fair enough. Teams shouldn't wantonly replace their drivers mid season. For most teams, the test drivers are the reserve drivers anyway, so they would have had some experience with the car in pre-season testing.

They shouldn't but they always have. Not only due to the results on the track, but for unforeseen reasons as well.



I also think it's bullshit that the pinnacle of motorsports has banned testing during the season. You're supposed to keep developing your car until the end.

You can simulate etc. but it's not the same thing. Besides, the whole thing about wind tunnels and simulators, is that fair? Does every team have access to the same equipment? Obviously the bigger your budget is, the better/more equipment can you afford.


I also don't understand why the FIA can't inspect all cars weeks before the first race in order to determine which ones are within the rules. So there's not another double diffuser issue....

Everybody would know what's allowed before the season starts if there are any unclear rule definitions.





/jarmo

Why doesn't the FIA fund or arrange equal funding for all teams? That would remove the disparity and level the playing field. As it stands, all it does is spout rules and make money from F1 rights. Max Mosley should have been booted a long time ago...

Max will be gone from the FIA soon.  ;D

Two old guys running it for their own profit. Time to end their reign.....



/jarmo

And the best driver in the field returns to the GP winners club after a too long absence!

Congrats Kimi!  ;D



/jarmo

Indeed! Good win for Kimi!  : ok:

Best driver in the field returns to the GP winners club? Yeah right.. :P

Kimi did a great job this weekend, he did need it though after a not so good 1st season half and especially last year the final GP's which were basically really bad.

In other news, appearantly there's proof that Piquet Jr. crash in Singapore '08 was staged.. Renault asked him to so the safety car would appear which meant good news for Alonso, who would therefore win the race.. the FIA is conducting an investigation to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plN4kwplcZc&feature=related

What happened to no more team orders after the Schumacher/Barichello flap?

There's no team orders!

 ;)



Giancarlo Fisichella will drive for Ferrari starting at the Italian GP next week.



/jarmo

Lotus is now officially the last new team for 2010. However BMW Sauber (which today also has been confirmed) is taken over by Qabad and are listed as the spare 14th team. However the FIA wants to talk to to the teams to stretch the max team limit from 13 to 14 teams. I hope they all agree.. BMW says they assume they're also gonna be on the grid next year.

But, rumours are that if Renault is found guilty on the 21th they might announce their departure from F1 (nice excuse to leave in this crisis time). In that case maybe the only other serieus team entry, Epsilon Euskadi, could be the 5th new team for next year.

Either way, atleast 13 teams next year, likely 14 which is really really great for F1.. they need more cars, slow or not. Also now the balance is goodwise restored to a healthy number of factory and private teams again. F1 needs more private teams cause they have more racing spirit, (when shit hits the fan they don't easily step out of F1 cause that is their only making-a-living) and private teams have more flair/atmosphere then colder factory teams imo.

news so far:

Bye Flavio!






/jarmo

yup....pitty about the drivers he is managing....but they'll find someone new soon enough...

That's true. But maybe it'll be good for them.


I mean, who wants to be associated with somebody who's got that reputation now?


/jarmo

His best friend Bernie?
Takes a gangster to know a gangster...

But honestly, the only difference between flavio and other high flyers in F1 is that he got caught...
They're all the same...his soccer club ownership may be terminated too though, but his other business interests won't suffer...he owns so many nightclubs, if anything, this will provide him with more street cred in those "mafioso" circles...

Guys like him will always be fine...

So... Alonso to Ferrari, Kimi to McLaren, Rosberg to Brawn, Kubica to Renault and Barrichello to Williams. 8)

 :P

it would have to be something like that to make it interesting again....this had to have been the most boring season in years....only blip on the radar which got exciting for a while was Schumi's return.....but then it died again...

honestly, i can't wait for it to be over...

This season was decided back in spring when FIA decided to allow the diffuser....

As expected.



Two "average" drivers fighting for the championship.

I hope Max and Bernie are happy.







/jarmo

Only Brawn, Williams and Toyota were clever enough to come up with their diffusers, Brawn even mentioned the idea in a FOTA meeting, while the others also asked the FIA beforehand if their ideas would be approved (which ofcourse is the case, cause it falls clever within regulations). The other teams were sleeping, even McLaren admitted that.

Either way, as you can see right now the diffusers were important but not important enough for the season GP outcomes, no way. If you just look at it it makes perfect sense. Start of the season: McLaren and Ferrari are running behind as a result of concentrating alot on 2008 because they where fighting for the championship. BMW, they just fucked up with the new car, focussing too much on KERS and not enough on aero and balance without KERS. Renault, once again as the past few years not strong starts. Williams, they start strong but fall behind during the season. Toyota, same thing looking at past years. Brawn, they focused on 2009 even when 2008 hadn't started yet, so them in the front is thanks to their airopackage, Mercedes in the back and innovative tricks (Front wing, spliiter and bodem plate). Red Bull has some innovative tricks too (suspensions) and also a good aero package. Also, they have Newey..

So all in all the diffuser propaganda as Renault and Ferrari have mostly spread it (ironic, those teams talking about 'unfairness', Ferrari with their double standard FIA veto right and Flavio 'Thank you' Briatore) has not had a big impact on the F1 season of 2009, which in terms of pace will be remembered as the most tightest field ever in F1 in terms of laptimes between the polesitter and last man on the grid. Eventhough last year was more exciting cause there were 3 titlerunners changing positions every race, this season has been exciting too if you compare it with other seasons in the past 10 years.

It's funny that you call Button, Barrichello and Vettel 'average' drivers, cause to be honest Kubica is being overrun by Heidfeld this year just as in 2007 and Massa, he's good in training pole and starting and finishing from pole but as soon as something else is in the way (like not starting pole) he won't make it. Cause he's not a racer like a Hamilton or Alonso, not to mention the fact that he was beaten by all his teammates during Sauber. So I guess that makes the 2008 championship fight also fought out by 'average' drivers with the exception of Hamilton.  ;)

I didn't call Vettel average at all. I said two. You listed three drivers....

Obviously whoever wins the title deserves it because he scored the most points. But I still don't think those two are the top drivers in F1.



The whole KERS debacle obviously took time and money to get right.

If FIA had decided not to allow that diffuser in the first place, KERS would've been way more popular. The diffusers made KERS kinda redundant.

Now those without KERS were running cars with far more downforce thanks to their diffuser designs and thus winning races.

In order to have proper benefit of KERS, the KERS cars had to be redesigned with new aeropackages and then the additional KERS power made a difference. But too late.





/jarmo

Button and Rubens are no Hamilton or Alonso, but they're not average.. I'd say Fisi and Trulli are average. KERS stands seperatly from diffusers or downforce,  it has nothing to do with aerodynamics and everything with weight and weight distribution, along with reliability prolems. All the cars have new diffusers since months, yet still the KERS cars are not dominating. McLaren has made big aero improvents and that's why they're good now (they have nice vids on Youtube explaining where they pulled the 2 seconds behind on pace from since the start of the season up until Hungary - 1st victory, interesting to check out) Those were the problems with KERS and that's why the FIA also decided to increase the minimum amount of weight for next year. KERS was just a fluke on it's own. The unreliability was big cause of a lack of development time and because of the weight disadventage the only good thing about KERS is being able to have a good start and hold someone off (like Kimi in Spa, where if it wasn't for KERS Fisi would've won the race). Not to mention the huge costs which goes directly against the cost reducing plans of F1.

Only good news is that for next year no one will drive with KERS anymore (FOTA agreement), not even Williams with their mechanical KERS it's just been anounced.

I know what KERS is.

Add "extra" weight to a car and you have less options on where to put ballast to balance the car. Suddenly you don't have a lot to play with compared to non-KERS cars. Another issue....

The diffuser that the FIA allowed, gives those cars a better level of downforce. Something Ferrari for example lacks.

The diffuser advantage was greater than the KERS advantage. That's the whole point.

Without downforce, you can have KERS and still not be able to go fast in corners!



The KERS cars are not dominating because Ferrari stopped developing their excuse for a car early on. It's very difficult to catch up during a season. Because the ones you're trying to catch aren't just standing still in their development.

If McLaren and Ferrari had been wining races early in the season, this discussion would sound different... But the FIA made sure that wasn't gonna happen.



Kimi winning in Spa was due to him driving great and using the car (including KERS) to its limits.

No average driver wins at Spa four times out of five. Especially with a car that's definitely not in the top 6...




/jarmo

Button and Rubens are very average...nothing about them is exciting whatsoever...granted, button is super smooth in his technique, and Rubens is solid...but they're no different from trulli or fisi...middle of the pack drivers who can be counted on when points are needed, but that's about it...brawn will keep button next year cause of his age, as he can still be moulded, but Rubens is out...that much is clear.

The diffuser was fair game...those guys were just smarter than the others...about kers...Williams got screwed there, as they bought the company in it's entirety who makes those things...now they have to find use of 40 odd extra staff members...they should have let that go for at least one more year before deciding to ban it.

What a pointless excercise, all aimed at being green and saving cash, now it turned out to be nothing but a super expensive experiment.

I'm glad max is going...hopefully todt is a little more "user friendly" when it comes to the basics.

Looks like Barrichello isn't retiring... He might go to Williams!



/jarmo

Williams is not doing too good then in the driver's market...they'd be better off with Heidfeld...

How the mighty have fallen...I remember the '97 Williams that Villeneuve drove...first race of the season...Australia...qualified 1.7 seconds ahead of the second placed guy....on a full tank of gas...that was a fucking epic car...

As expected, Alonso to Ferrari.

Ferrari gets a new Spanish sponsor, and then a Spanish driver. What a coincidence!

 ::)



/jarmo

so...25 mil for the first year...plus 40 mil to get rid of the Kimster...shijeeet....Alonso is costing them more than Schumi did in his prime...

They say Alonso was signed as early as July 2008. Anyway, next year is looking interesting for sure:

Alonso and Massa for Ferrari.
Hamilton and Raikkonen for McLaren.

Kimi fits better at Mclaren than he ever did at Ferrari. Nice golden handshake money for R?ikkonen.

a kimi interview from Suzuka this week:

Exit Toyota.. and today also an emergency meeting at Renault, likely they're gonna quit aswell. But Renault is still considering management buy-out, team sell but with continueing as engine supplier.

Right now it's like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Formula_One_season

manufacturers should be engine suppliers only in any case...that's how it used to be in the good old days of F1....Ferrari are the only team who have to actually sell cars in order to race...not race in order to sell cars...it makes more sense for them to only do engines...

Yeah.. 99% of the manufacters don't have a strong racing heart, they'll pull out whenever it doesn't suit their 'strategy'. Private teams have the sole function of competing in F1, it's what they were created for.

I don't mind the big names dissappearing at all, aslong as there are many cars on the field, hopefully we'll still have 26 cars on the grid next year

Isn't Mercedes increasing their interest in Brawn?




/jarmo

Within 3 years Brawn will have turned into Mercedes.. but for now Mercedes has a big stake in Brawn. But Brawn also has found a bit titlesponsor (not Virgin, they have 20% of Manor Grand Prix).

Behind the scenes McLaren is seeing if they can buy over the BMW F1 engine department (which is seperate from the team itself). That way they have an enginge and facilities and can do without Mercedes.

Renault is staying...for now... :)


translated

Talking of Renault....


Can somebody explain to me how come so many think Alonso is a "brilliant car developer".

I get to hear this all through the season from the Swedish "expert" commentator. This guy often cites McLaren as evidence of Alonso's magnificent engineering knowledge.

But how come Alonso couldn't engineer a championship winning car in Renault for two seasons?

If he's so great.


Sounds like bullshit to me. Sure, some drivers are probably better at explaining how they feel driving a car, but the whole idea that one guy immediately makes the engineers design a better car is just bullshit.

You have a test ban, in addition to the fact that design of a new car starts months before the new driver even has visited the factory.

And nobody remembers how he was happy to use information from Ferrari when he was at McLaren....  :-X





/jarmo

I think most people know that Alonso is currently one of the best, ifnot the best driver of the field. A driver who has not only natural speed, but also one who can think and anticipate well during a race on moments like a Schumacher aswell as one who has good knowledge of how to develope a car. Take Felipe Massa, very fast, maybe not a huge natural talent though and certainly not a driver who can adjust and anticipate well during a race. If he's not starting from pole, it's not gonna happen for him.. Take Kimi, very fast with big natural talent, but lazy / sometimes unmotivated and who's not involved with developing the car. However he can be consistent and bring the car home when he has too. Then Lewis, huge natural talent, can think and anticipate well during a race, technical knowledge to develop the car good but sometimes makes stupid mistakes. Then Vettel, huge natural talent who can anticipate well during a race, but not consistent enough.

But both Renault and and Mclaren have mentioned Alonso's huge contribution in developing a car. They said at McLaren that during his year he alone was responsible for 4 tenths of a second making the car faster. The thing is, you gotta have the right engineers for it. McLaren and Ferrari have, Renault doesn't. Simple as that.. there have been several engineers and technical director changes for the past few years (RIP Dino Toso) but already during Alonso's 2nd DWC year he had a car which was not the best of the field anymore unlike the year before (when Renault had those excellent mass dampers). It just went downhill from that point. And I mean look at this years car, it even looks slow :P BMW same thing, did some good things but they screwed it up concentrating on KERS too much and too little on Aerodynamics (which also shows).

Interesting though, when asked by a reporter, both Toyota and Williams have mentioned that the reason why this year they were fast on one track and slower on the other, not consistent, was that they said that it was a driver issue, mentally, cause their cars were good. They just weren't able to pull the maximum out of it and anno 2009 you loose 10 spots on a few tenths.

That's a lie.

Just because he doesn't kiss ass and take part in all the drama (hello lying to stewards, spying on others etc) doesn't make him lazy.

His job is to drive the car. That's what he does.

In the latest F1 Racing, Martin Whitmarsh was asked what pair of drivers would work the best for McLaren if he could choose any two:


Yet people go on about the "no feedback" shit. People who know absolutely nothing about how Kimi works with his team/engineers!

It's obvious Kimi doesn't kiss the journalists' asses so they keep writing shit. And people buy it!


I'm not saying all drivers have the same technical knowledge, but this Alonso is an engineering phenomenon cult is kinda ridiculous.







Wasn't that Alonso himself who made the claim? When he was asking for special treatment within the team...


I guess this year Button was far better at developing the car than Alonso...  :P

It's interesting. Nobody's making claims that Button and/or Barrchello are masters at giving feedback and working with the engineers. If this had been Alonso, he had been hailed as the guy who made the car a winning one!  :hihi:






/jarmo

Alonso is a great all rounder, he understand mechanical engineering on top of his awesome raw talent.
He whipped Schumacher's ass properly when he had the hardware.
Twice.

Kimi is exactly the same.
Perhaps he doesn't appear to be as mechanically oriented as Alonso, but he's lightning quick. When all elements align together, and he isn't nursing a hangover from a strip joint the night before...he's a fucking demon behind the wheel.

That's why Ferrari chose him first. Even Schumi said when he was retiring that he believes that the best guy out there got the gig. And he was right.

It will be a damn shame if Kimi doesn't have a drive for next year.
As a kimi fan, i will be very disappointed.

As a side note, Nico Rosberg was offered a place at Imperial College, London, to read for a degree in Aerodynamics. Obviously that guy has some knowledge in the engineering field. Yet nobody mentions him as a "talented car developer" as much as Alonso..... Ironic.




All the people who say Kimi doesn't promote the sport blah blah blah must be happy if that happens.

Forget the fact that he's one of the best racers in the field. PR comes first....

In that sense a Jenson Button is valued more than a Kimi R?ikk?nen.   ::)




By the way, anybody who thinks Alonso got to drive for Ferrari next year due to the results. Santander is Spanish, they bring a lot of money to Ferrari. They also have operations in South America (including Brazil).

In the end, the results and talent has very little to do with who races at Ferrari these days.

If Todt was still the team manager, this wouldn't have happened.....





/jarmo

Is it also a lie when he said himself that he's lazy? And look at the last races in 2008, didn't exactly appeared to be motivated.. results also showed. But I won't go further on Kimi, obviously it's a sensitive topic with another Fin.. ;)

And it was Alonso who made the claim, backed up by both McLaren and Renault engineers (after he already left McLaren). Why is that so hard to believe?

Kimi's a good driver when he's on top of it, no doubt. I think Kimi got sacked because of his personality and mainly his salary demands. But Ferrari is stupid to have Massa drive there while it ain't even certain he's gonna be the old self again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIcleMr8sM Kimi lazy

But the guy does have humor though :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9D1mueU6Y&feature=related - What?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U386HsT-NaA&feature=related - I was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMBP1T_jw5w&feature=related - Look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6e3bDs2lgw&feature=related - * off

But the best startgrid quote is probably from David Coulthard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPlyQ9vjQGI - Thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi8sj98pHZQ&feature=related - Vest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSvl4AiUt30&feature=related - Montoya (he's refering to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Un556BwmFw )

they do, they do....Frank Williams and Patrick Head said it numerous times, and was one of the reasons he got the job there over the other guy he tested against...(Bruno something)...who was faster than Nico, but Nico's technical knowledge was far superior.

They are (were) paying him $8.5 mil a season while he was there.
That's a hefty amount by anyone's standards, and they knew what they had with him.
If that Brawn car wasn't a one hit wonder, expect Nico to be right up front from day one next year.

Even if it was a one hit wonder, he'll whip Button's ass all over the place...on every circuit.

Yep.. Bruno Junqueira

Please.

He's a born racer. He never had problem with being motivated.

He's not Barrichello who only hangs onto F1 to break records.


What's so bad about the last races of 2008? He finished on the podium in all three.

He took a risk and lost everything in Belgium in 2008. I guess he wasn't motivated.....  ::)







Why is it hard to believe that only one guy has exact numbers on how much he improves the cars?

This is the same guy who gets info from Ferrari and thinks they (McLaren) should try the things..

The same guy who wins a GP because his team mate is ordered to crash.... He's such a genius!







Santander is Spanish.

Santander went to sponsor McLaren, Alonso went there.

Santander takes their money to Ferrari, what happens?

How can you keep denying this?







Nice collection of Youtube videos. What's your point? That he doesn't like answering stupid questions unlike every other driver who will smile to the camera while saying absolutely nothing important. But everybody's happy!

 ::)





/jarmo

You're forgetting the stupid crashes in Singapore and Monaco too, not to forget being overrun by Massa the majority of the season (who he can easily beat if he wants too). Look Kimi's a great racer, no bullshit mentality, but last year 2nd half was not great at all from him. Why do you pretend like that's not the case? Hell even Montezemolo said this year finally the old Kimi was back, joked about it last year
http://kimiraikkonennews.blogspot.com/2008/11/di-montezemolo-jocking-on-kimis.html so don't pretend Kimi's 2008 season was good ok?


This is irrelevant, firstly because McLaren didn't copy technical stuff, they used advantage like tyre temp, balance, breaking etc. and second of all it was proven in a independent investigation on behalf of the FIA that Alonso wasn't involved with the Singapore affair. However even if the things you said were true, that's still seperated from the fact that both McLaren and Renault engineers have mentioned that Alonso has the ability to get around 4 tenths out of the car on his own. McLaren said this after Alonso had quit them on bad terms, why is it so hard to accept it? Sounds like you're frustrated because he's taking over Kimi's spot, really that's how it comes accross.

Santander follows Alonso, not the other way around.. duh

Do you know the salary of the 2009 F1 drivers? Here it is:

Full list of F1 2009 driver salaries:

1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m
2. Lewis Hamilton $18m
3. Fernando Alonso $15m
4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m
5. Felipe Massa $8m
6. Jarno Trulli $6.5m
7. Sebastian Vettel $6m
8. Mark Webber $5.5m
9. Jenson Button $5m
10. Robert Kubica $4.5m
11. Heikki Kovalainen $3.5m
12. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m
13. Timo Glock $2m
14. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m
15. S?bastien Buemi $1.5m
16. Rubens Barrichello $1m
17. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi $Nil
19. Adrian Sutil $Nil
20. Romain Grosjean $Nil
21. Kazuki Nakajima $Nil

It's ridiculous! Obviously, they expected Schumi results when taking in Kimi. But when you compare his results with Massa and his salary, there's no way he's more worth of that difference between his and Massa's salary. Basically, he's earning too much and showed not enough for Ferrari. And now they're expecting Alonso to perform on Schumi level, also in ways of consistency. This is my opinion on the whole matter at least.

Besides this, Montezemolo also says this about the situation:
http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/alonso-will-be-better-communicator-than-kimi-di-montezemolo/



Oh and just to make clear, I am everything but a Ferrari fan.. they're my least favorite team. I like Alonso as a driver, but won't support him next year. And the Youtube vids I found funny.. so I posted them here in the F1 thread. Not a hidden agenda was meant with it.

Yeah. How stupid to have an incident.

Nobody else ever has them!

Hamilton sliding off the track and parking his car in China comes to mind.... Oh right, only Kimi has stupid crashes!



How do I explain this to you?

The reason he had a tough season was in the car, not the driver.

The same theme continued this season.

The car hasn't got the grip or downforce needed.

Why do you think Hamilton had such great wet races last year? Compare to how he struggled this year.

Isn't he motivated?



The "old Kimi".  ::)









You believe that?  ;D

The genius racer starts from the back of the grid with a super light car. Makes you wonder....

Did he ask his engineer why that strategy was chosen?

This is the guy who has so much understanding for every aspect of racing, but that strategy seemed reasonable? Ok.....










I don't like anybody who's happy to use all kinds of dirty tricks to get ahead.

While you post videos of Kimi being "lazy" and "pushing kids", nobody can say that he's not a fair racer.

Ferrari wasn't built around Kimi, unlike Renualt around Alonso.

Did Kimi whine about it? Did he ever try to sabotage for Massa?

No, he took it like a man and kept racing!

No crying, no stupid explanations.


I think he proved this year what he could've done last year with the right kind of management within the team.

Instead the team chose to focus on trying to give Massa a title. And he failed.

You don't win Spa four out of five times because you're not motivated!




Haha. Alonso had a contract for 2011!

Suddenly Santander makes it official that they will sponsor Ferrari starting from 2010 and what's announced next?

"Alonso is happy to join Ferrari a year earlier".






Yes I do.



And who won their last championship in his first year? Was it Massa?

They can expect what they want.

Kimi didn't get the Schumacher treatment.

Just like Alonso didn't get it at McLaren.....




And Schumacher probably wouldn't have performed "good enough" either if he had been equal with Irvine, Barrichello and/or Massa.

It's not fair to compare a team built around one guy to something that isn't.

Kimi never had that kind of advantage.




What's he gonna say?

Do you honestly think the boss will say the opposite?  :hihi:

Do you remember how happy McLaren and Alonso were about their partnership before it started?







Alonso is obviously talented.

But just like Schumacher, his reputation is tainted with shit that people tend to ignore/forget while they're busy adoring them.


While Kimi is "lazy, unmotivated, can't do shit" etc etc.





/jarmo

Kimi I think is a very underrated driver. He kind of reminds me of Häkkinen and there's a reason he's called Iceman. :)
I liked it when he was in McLaren and I hope he races for them next season.

All this talk back and forth of 'proving' whether he is good or bad is ridiculous.
We all have our preferences as far as drivers and teams go.

Onto another F1 topic, what does everyone think of the refuelling ban? Some say it will make it exciting, but I'm kind of worried
it will do the opposite. The fuel strategies, I thought, were a crucial part of the race and without that ...

No more driving away with the fuel hose attached either (Sigh) ;D

You are right.

I was talking more about journalists and such.

As you pointed out, the team knows what Nico can do.




Wasn't the refueling added because they wanted to get rid off the "every car follows each other around the circuit like a long train for the whole race" thing?





/jarmo

Yeah, now it'll look like Nascar or something. I just don't see a plus side to banning refuelling.
Hopefully, they'll scrap the rule before the season starts.

As usual you're not putting it in perspective, just a black and white view.. Hamilton did stupid stuff aswell, but it was his first year and we're talking about Kimi with his years of experience not someone else.


I'll explain it to you one more time, when the car is shit who's your competition? You're teammate.. and Kimi got overrun and made mistakes last year in a way and number not fitting for a World Champion. Stop blaming it on the car, the 2008 car was good enough for a Championship, this year not at all but you get counted on your performance compared to your teammate. And again why are you bringing Lewis in the picture? I'm talking about Kimi... last year was crap, up until Hungary this year Massa was the better of the two and after his accident I must say Kimi did a very good job, profiting from mistakes of others without making any himself and driving consistant.



Yes I believe that. You know why his car was light? He wanted to go for pole as Renault needed it after a hard season, as that was the goal (like we've seen this year aswell, teams who want to go for pole go light it's that easy) but appearantly you don't remember the fuel pick up problem during qualifying which made him stop on track, causing him to start from the back with a light car.


Hey I don't like unfair racers either, was never a Schumi fan because of this and there are some other drivers who still use dirty tricks like Mark Webber. But when have you seen Alonso bumping someone of the track? Never.. same goes for Kimi whom I also consider a fair racer.

Last year the team concentrated on Massa because Kimi failed to hang on into the DC race! Remember Massa had a bad 2008 start, but he pulled it together and once Kimi was gone the team focussed on him, al very logical. Kimi won Spa 4 times cause he's a very good driver and likes the track, but there are more races then one Spa in a season.


Yes so what's the point? Alonso has contract, sponsor follows, things change.. that's F1. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's about money. Santander gives, Kimi costs way too much in relation to his performances, so they get Alonso.


Remember though that Kimi was lucky to get it in 2007, well deserved but Lewis in his first year made to many mistakes. But the problem was not 2007, it was 2008 and early 2009 probably.


Kimi was hailed in at Ferrari as Schumi's replacement, the team was already there build by Schumi, obviously 2007 was a good year and the team wasn't build around him then, so you're blaming Kimi's lack of performances if you call it harshly post 2007 because the team's not build around him? That's kinda easy way out..


The truth? There are teams who've let bad drivers go without putting him down, there are teams who've let drivers go and put them down hard, in this case Mr. M is kinda in between, that his lack of communication in the team ain't helping. And we all know Kimi's very communicative so yeah that seems very unlikely indeed.


Well, have you ever thought about being a sense of truth in the lazy, unmotivated stuff? There are several sources who claim this even himself, this is not saying he's completely unmotivated but there have been periods where it seemed that way. Where smoke is there's fire.. I consider both Alonso and Kimi fair drivers, also in fights. And I don't adore Alonso, I don't have a favorite driver or anything like that I'm liking F1 in general. I don't like Ferrari's way of handling and saying things though.

But I'm gonna stop here now.. cause it's taking too much time disecting the posts :P And obviously we see things different so there's no point.

He hit a wet spot in Monaco and became a passenger at that point. Not much you can do.

These things happen in racing when you race for positions. But it seems like only Kimi makes "stupid mistakes".

 ::)







Oh my. Are you even aware that different drivers drive the car differently and have different preferences on how their "perfect" car is?

Just because the 2008 car suit Massa, doesn't mean it suited Kimi.


When you're not comfortable with the car, you have to make up for it. You try "too hard". Thats when you make mistakes.

For example, Button had a "monster of a car" this year. He didn't have to push the car to the extreme. His driving seemed "easy".








Ignore the fact that one year one guy has no problem in wet races and the next he does. Did he just become a worse driver? Not likely...




2007 started of great and then until Ferrari managed to fix the car, it looked worrying.

In 2008 and 2009 they didn't manage to do that.

Massa was the better? Kimi scored the team's first points and first podium of 2009.

How often did Kimi qualify with a heavier car than Felipe?






But he only drove in Q1.

If you want to drive for pole position, you need to be in Q3.

That's where you fuel your car for the race.

I know Alonso had technical problems and didn't get a time in Q2.

So how do you figure he wanted to go for the pole from straight from Q1?


I'm aware that once you make it to Q3, some prefer light cars to get higher up the grid, maybe even a pole position.

But as I said, Alonso wasn't in Q3.







I guess you think his 2007 was full of "fair behavior".






Kimi won it because it's a real racing track which shows you who the real racers are.  :P

It's not one of these new go fast and brake tracks.




The point which you seem to miss is that Santander bought that seat for Alonso.

Nothing to do with racing....

Kimi's results in 2009 shows that it's not about the racing results.




Was Hamilton lucky in 2008?

Was Schumacher lucky in 2003? In case you forgot, Kimi was second and lost due to the reliability of his car.





That's just the truth. He won his championship without having a team built around him. Can you say the same about Schumacher's or Alonso's championships?





Read the Martin Whitmarsh comment again.



When Kimi says he loves to race and his motivation has always been the same, I believe that. Instead of believing people who think they know shit but really have no idea...



The lazy unmotivated Kimi already says that he's preparing for 2010 like any other season. And that his motivation to race hasn't changed. "Racing is everything"





/jarmo

looks like there is trouble in paradise


to me, this says one of two things:

1. Ross knows his car for next year is going to be the shits...even better than this years, and he's playing a silly game with Jenson, almost like blackmail of sorts.

2. They truly are in crap, and have absolutely no money left.

one of the two...either way (and I'm no Button fan)...i think its unfair towards Jenson, if this is true...all he wants is his salary to be returned to the way it was before Honda pulled out....not anything extravagantly out of the blue.

Mclaren are waiting in the wings, that is why Kimi didn't get an answer out of them as yet...they're waiting to see if Jense will stay or go...two british drivers...both champions...in a british team...one of them brings the nr1 with him...both easy going, both approachable...easy to market...nice to sponsors...

sounds like an ideal scenario to me.

We may still see Kimi in a Brawn next year.

You think they can afford Kimi if they can't afford Jenson?





/jarmo

Yes...I think it's more a case of them not wanting to afford jenson...

It will look pretty silly on their part if they refuse to pay Jenson and then hire Kimi on a higher salary.
This might just be posturing on their part to get Jenson to cut his salary.
Money wise I don't think Brawn are still out of the woods yet...

not necessarily.
think about it....even though Kimi has the option of sitting the season out...he'd much rather be racing...and he WILL drop his salary demands if a potential championship winning car came along...

they all know that.
If you were Ross, and had a choice between Jense and Kimi for roughly the same money...

who would you take?

Hmm, that is a point. But why settle for only either? The second Brawn car is free. If they want Kimi, they could get him in the second car.
I don't think they want to ditch Jenson. There isn't any other world championship winning driver for 8m pounds or less.

the second car is not free.
Rosberg is in it...and if you read a few posts back...probably the best aerodynamics expert in the field who is actually a driver too....he's an asset...and they will keep him...its a no brainer...

Jenson got lucky this year.
chances of him getting lucky again are slim.

Brawn needs a superstar to repair the brand damage they managed to inflict upon themselves this year....

8m is Kimi money.
He'll take that.
Mclaren are only offering 5...

Rosberg hasn't yet been confirmed for Brawn. Even McLaren are after him.
I wouldn't say Jenson won the championship by fluke. Yes, there are better drivers than him out there, but he's a damn good driver.

I have no idea who'll end up where. Still a lot of drivers free and a lot of rides too.

think about it.
Lewis won't have a team mate who is going to force him into mistakes, make him nervous all the time, who may just know more than him about the car setup...etc...etc...

Nico is that guy.

Jense on the other hand...even Kimi...won't put Lewis under any stress, as they are in different stages in their careers to him....granted, they're all after the same goal...which is to win....but it won't be the Alonso/Hamilton catastrophe again...

Nico is dead set to go to Brawn.
He wouldn't have announced his Williams departure otherwise...unless he has a signed deal...

But i agree, it could be provisional still...

it all rests on what happens to Jenson in the next few days/weeks...

Urmm, no. Hamilton and Rosberg are good friends from their karting days.  They were also team mates.
I seriously doubt Lewis is going to feel threatened by him especially after racing for a whole season with Alonso.

It's all going to come down to contracts and money, I think.

they were teammates.....were....is your keyword.

No nr.1 driver in F1, no matter how democratic he may appear on the surface is going to potentially embarrass himself by supporting a decision which is risky.

Out of all three options....Nico, Jense and Kimi....if I was Lewis....Nico would make me feel most nervous....whipping Jenson's and Kimi's asses is great for his status and PR....Nico is an unknown....he's awesome....but no one knows for sure how awesome he really is...

I'm willing to bet money that its either Jenson or Kimi who go to Mclaren.....not Nico.

Of course, as you pointed out...i could be wrong...as with these silly season rumors...anything can happen... :hihi:
but a hunch tells me i could be right...

Either way, being a McLaren fan, it's going to be great. Hamilton with Jenson, Kimi or Rosberg would make a potent team.

oh yes....next season is hopefully going to be a cracker... : ok:

let's hold thumbs that the refueling ban doesn't mess things up too much....but they still have to go in for tires...so we'll still see some pitstop action at least....

Maybe it's time Jarmo created a F1 2010 thread...

Jenson Button and Kimi R?ikk?nen have both paid visits to McLaren. Story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8359972.stm).

interesting.
I wonder how much this has to do with Mercedes themselves.

They want nr1 on their car next year, that much is clear.
Brawn is using this in his negotiations with them, to get them to buy in, probably over inflating his pricetag, and using Jenson's "demands" as the reasoning.
They know that he can't pay Jenson unless they buy into the team.
He knows this too.
So does Mclaren.
Who would like to keep Mercedes on their side, as opposed to potentially losing them to some second tier team.
So they call Jense, as they can afford him.

But they really want Kimi, as they have worked with him before, and they know what he is capable of.
And there is nobody in the field who would be more motivated next year to whipping Alonso's ass than Kimi.

But Merc says Jenson should be considered.

If you were Martin Whitmarsh...what would you do?

Probably stall until Jenson signs with Brawn if that's the case. I don't think  McLaren are in any rush.
But I think they are also keen to have two British World Championship winning drivers racing for them.
An all British endeavour...