Here Today... Gone To Hell!

How do you think it compares? I think it's better. Let's be honest, Bach and Rolling stone hit the nail on the fucking head when they described it as a combination of Use Your Illusion and Appetite For Destruction in terms of having the epicness and the rawness, respectively. I've tried avoiding to compare and grade this new record as much as possible, but the following has got to be said: Take some Appetite For Destruction rockers, take some Use Your Illusion ballads, take some of the finest musicians around, combine that with the best voice in rock (Axl) as well as the most amazing songwriter talent and give it a 2008 flavor. What have you got? Chinese Democracy. :smoking:

I really like the album, so don't call me out for being a hater when I say this... but I don't think its even in the same ball-park as AFD, or the bulk of the UYI albums (then again, my list of albums that are is VERY short).

Ultimately I don't think there's a rocker that can go toe to toe with 'It's So Easy' or 'Welcome To The Jungle', and I'll take 'Estranged' over 'Prostitute' or Madagascar any day. That said, my favourites off Chi Dem (title track, Better, Sorry, TWAT) are better than some of the UYI tunes I think. The fact that it's so different from those albums means it will maintain my interest for a long time too, as opposed to if it was just a weak facsimile of AFD or UYI.

Of course it's all opinion, so it's all good... Although I'm scratching my head at the comment above about 'rawness'... To me this is one of the most thought out and produced albums in history. That in itself is pretty cool/interesting, but even the heavy songs are a long way from being 'raw' in the way I would use that word to describe music (ie something recorded very simply in one or two takes, capturing the moment rather than crafting it).

The way I understood his "rawness" comment was that it's "raw", meaning edgy, rough but not necessarily simplistic.

I think a lot of the Illusions don't "Hold Up" today and come across as either immature to a real negative degree or just seem outdated. Sometimes both. As far as comparing the albums, as an album, Chinese Democracy is far beyond the Illusions (1 & 2). Appetite might seem dated in a couple respects but as songs, it is a statement that created a movement and single handily killed a goofy genre of music that needed to die and Appetite was the cure. I cannot say Chinese Democracy is better then Appetite just out of respect to Appetite. Appetite surprisingly holds up better for me then the Illusions. When I am in the mood for fun kickass rockers, Appetite will always be my go to. It is the greatest Hard Rock album of all time in my humble opinion.

Chinese Democracy is something else. I don't think CD is in the same "Ball-park as AFD" because I think it is in its own Universe far grander, and far more epic. It is in a Universe with few company. Maybe shares company with one of Zeppelin's, a couple of Beatle's, a Jimi Hendrix, one of the Stones... CD is extraordinary. I think it is beyond what many are even able to grasp (and I am not joking). It may just be the finest Rock album ever created but, really only time will tell.

Very well put and very true. It just might be the finest rock album ever created. :smoking:
Look, I've had CD for almost three weeks now and I still haven't been able to write a review on it, and trust me, I've wanted to. Why can't I do that? Because it's one of those rare albums where you would be doing the songs a disservice by grading them. CD is like a drug for me, I'm addicted to it. Every time I listen to it I change my mind about which song is my favourite, every time I notice something new and cool. The vocals, the melodies, the guitar work, the lyrics... It blows away anything out there today. I'll stick to the topic. CD is much more compact in quality than the Illusions, and much more complex than the Illusions and Appetite combined. I truly feel like it is the best Guns N' Roses album, and that's saying something. :smoking:

I think I prefer Chinese Democracy to the Illusions albums, if only because it doesn't have the same kind of "flab" they do.  There's no My World or So Fine on it.

In my opinion, Chinese Democracy complements old material. So they should be assessed together instead of comparing eachother.

My favourite track Shackler's Revenge doesn't compare to anything from past material. Although it has some predecessor like Perfect Crime or Garden of Eden, they look like fetus if Shackler's Revenge is a baby. Same can be said for If The World. Honestly speaking, I was expecting more of that kind of song as they are successful bold moves in the musical direction Axl is heading. I regard them as winners of the album.

On the other hand, some older songs don't have successors. Bluesy rock songs like Dust n Bones, Mr Brownstone, Bad obsession or melodic beauties like Sweet Child O'Mine are no more. Except for Better maybe. I think Robin Finck's soulful playing could have been promoted some more to continue that tradition (which deserves to be given a chance to evolve)

As for ballads, there a lot of them and they don't compare to specific songs. Epic songs in CD sound like a mixture of past ones. conservative duration of piano driven Breakdown, Estrangesque tense and anxious tranquility fed by guitar feedbacks, experimentalism of Coma. However my personal opinion is that past ballads were superior, because they were pure and unique. let me warn though, this is not a comparison but a preference.

I like the old stuff, but there are only a few songs that are even close to the quality level of Chinese Democracy.

SCOM, Rocket Queen, November Rain, Estranged, etc. are close in quality, but Chin Dem has the best production overall, and packs the tightest punch (with the exception maybe of SCOM).

The songs all live up to Guns N' Roses standards.   Right now, Chinese Democracy is my favorite GnR album.   Not one filler song on the whole album..

I don't even compare UYI1 with UYI2, would never compare CD to AFD for example or any other record

Good for you.

Use Your Illusion as a whole is my favorite album ever, by far.  As far as CD, I don't think it ever quite soars to the heights of Estranged, Coma or Locomotive, but it doesn't have the duds like So Fine, Get In The Ring, and the filler like You Ain't The First. 

CD feels incredibly complete to me, the flow is beautiful from beginning to end.  I can honestly say there isn't one song on CD that I have the desire to skip which isn't the case for either UYI or Appetite (maybe it'll change after I've heard it a zillion times like I have those albums).  I can't even compare it to Appetite because it's completely different styles of music.  Appetite isn't just an album, it's a phenomenon with so much nostalgia tied to it that it's hard to even judge it at all any more.  It's just AFD, enough said.  CD feels like an extension of UYI to me, which is a good thing.    They have already done Appetite and could never recreate it so they should not even try. 

I generally don't compare albums, but I will say that I prefer UYI I to UYI II.

Whether the best songs of The Illusions are better/worse than Appetite or ChiDem is up to one's taste. No call here.

I don't even compare them.
It's unfair to  compare  songs that provided a sountrack for you growing up to a pile of brand new songs.


AFD is the sharpest cutting and bleeding edge of Sleaze rock albums, representation of perfection of it's genre. CD exists in too remote  corner of the rock genre in comparsion, to make a direct comparsion possible. This prolly makes CD feel very lucky.:P

For me nothing on CD comes close to Jungle,SCOM,PC,RQ,Nightrain,Its So easy,Estranged,NR,YCBM,Civil War,Don't Cry or Coma

they to me are sort of on the next level with the Breakdown's,Dead horse, Bad Obsession etc

no past material comes close to better, sr, itw twat, irs, sorry, riad, scraped and so on.

presently to my mind cd is the best album ever.

I will never be able to answer that question.

That's like asking someone if they prefer Presence over Led Zeppelin 2.

CD doesn't hold up to any of the past work, all the old albums felt like there was a band making them, different textures etc. CD is really just one mans visions and ideas!

Musically and intellectually it surpasses mostly all past material, save for a small handful of tunes.

But, headbangers wanting nothing but hard rock with testosterone-driven lyrics written by guys in their late teens or early twenties would probably beg to differ.

Please explain.

Just by doing ballads and adding string sections to every song doesn't (imo) mean it's somehow more "intelligently" build than some more up-tempo song.
Somehow people seem to think that all songs on CD have a very complex song structure when they just a have a ton of instruments layered beneath each other.

No, im not saying some of the songs on CD are not "complex", but some seem to think theyre build somehow superior to everything previously released. Trolls don't bother please.

Riad and Scraped are just filler IMO

What qualifies either as "filler?"

They're both in your face rock songs with catchy hooks, and all around killer instrumentation.

Lyrically - I feel CD is superior to a lot of past Guns material.  I like the older, more mature Axl over the younger version.  The words and the structure for which they're written are more intelligent than alot of 1.0 era stuff.

Musically - it's artistic, adventurous, and thought-provoking.  Not as to say Appetite and the Illusions aren't, but CD so much moreso (for me).

But, it all boils down to preference.  Personally, I would've liked to have seen more rockers on CD than what we were given.  One thing that definitely hurt the album in the eyes of old school gunners is it being too ballad-heavy.  It's magnificently written in many areas, but it isn't near as fun to listen to as Appetite or the Illusions for many of them.

I don't see how the album is ballad-heavy when half of it is rockers, or more than half, depending on how you look at it:

Rockers

1. Chinese Democracy
2. Shackler's Revenge
3. Better
4. Riad and the Bedouins
5. Scraped
6. I.R.S.

Mid-tempo Rockers

1. Sorry
2. Madagascar

Rock-Ballads

1. There Was A Time
2. Prostitute

Mid-tempo Songs

1. If The World
2. Catcher in the Rye

Ballads

1. Street of Dreams
2. This I Love

almost agreed axlmainman. I ain't sure about the
Mid-tempo Rockers and Rock-Ballads.

I'm another sucker for the rockers on cd.


whatever beyond his comprehension.  :P

That's how I broke it down too.  Pretty much half the album is composed of "rawkers."

And as for Riad and Scraped being filler, that is just bologna.  And not Oscar Mayer bologna, because as we all know, Oscar Mayer has no fillers.