Here Today... Gone To Hell!

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Guns N' Roses? Lawyer Blasts Dr Pepper
November 26, 2008 - Legal and Management | Digital and Mobile | Rock and Pop

By Andre Paine, London

Guns N' Roses' and Axl Rose's lawyer has castigated Dr Pepper, accusing the soda maker of failing to deliver on its "Chinese Democracy" (Black Frog/Geffen) free soda promotion, which the band was never involved in.

Beverly Hills-based Alan Gutman has written to Dr Pepper Snapple Group Inc. president and CEO Larry Young, accusing the company of operating an online redemption scheme that was an "unmitigated disaster which defrauded customers." Gutman is demanding that Dr Pepper makes good on its offer by extending the period for the offer; he also wants full-page apologies in The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today and The Wall Street Journal.

Gutman's letter makes clear his view that the original campaign was an "exploitation of my clients' legendary reputation and their eagerly awaited album" and "brazenly violated our clients' rights." He is also seeking an "appropriate payment... for the unauthorized use and abuse of their publicity and intellectual property rights," with the threat of further action if an acceptable offer is not made.

"Now is the time to clean up the mess," says Gutman.

Rose did not take any action when, in March, Dr Pepper put out a press release offering free soda to any American if the long-awaited Guns N' Roses album came out before the end of 2008. However, Rose has reacted to the news that fans have been unable to get their soda following the Nov. 23 release of "Chinese Democracy."

Dr Pepper's Web servers crashed under the demand for coupons that could be exchanged for free drinks. Dr Pepper extended the Nov. 23 promotion for an extra day, but the company's Web site was inaccessible for a substantial part of it.

"Dr Pepper was completely unprepared for the traffic to its site," says Gutman in the letter, describing the promotion as a "complete fiasco."

Gutman adds: "The entire point of your campaign has been to use public interest in Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses as a lure to increase consumer awareness of Dr Pepper." He further states that "mocking undertones" in the online promotional content represent a "raw and damaging commercial exploitation of our clients' rights," adding that the association is "even more damaging in light of your shoddy execution of your disingenuous giveaway offer."

The soda maker declined to comment. Dr Pepper was considering extending the promotion, according to a source close to the situation.

Wow.  That is unfortunate.  I don't know what to say about the legalities of it all, but I do know that's it very hard to gauge and prepare for the amount of traffic that might come in a situation like that.  I've been in dozens of situations were we thought we prepared servers to handle the load, and then found it out wasn't nearly enough, or where we've completely overbuilt to handle way more than necessary, and cost the client lots of money in doing so.

On the other hand, maybe Dr. Pepper shouldn't have done their promotion at all if they weren't absolutely positive they could handle it.

Dr Pepper really did not go out of their way to make good on what they were pitching.

guns n roses better do some real promotion instead of getting after Drpepper.

I agree tho that Drpepper did not do a real good job at getting that free soda out

Dr Pepper's original statement back in March was a joke - they never believed the album was coming out

But i think it was a good natured joke, it wasnt at Axl's expense - more like banter between friends

I dont think it made any impact on their sales but helped Axl enourmously - so their is no case to answer, and the GNR camp wont have a leg to stand on

Frankly I believe it was Dr Pepper's words that got the album released - Axl took the words badly and decided to fight back - by releasing the album

He finally realised he was a joke in the publics eyes

A good album has been an effective way of answering that

like axl, i was intially behind the dr. pepper promotion.  i really liked that one of the few press releases axl put out was about the awesome dr. pepper promotion.  i'm not sure why he suddenly feels like they used his image/brand without consent, but whatever.  i support axl.  and if that means i have to stop drinking dr. pepper, then fuck dr. pepper.  they're haters who want to tear axl down.

I support GN'R's decision in this. Dr. Pepper made an offhand remark to capitalize on the GN'R name, and then failed to fully deliver on their word. On and off access to their site for 24 hours is NOT free Dr. Pepper for everyone in the US. They did not handle this well, did not take appropriate measures to back up their promises, and did their best to cop out of loosing a ton of money; and now GN'R is calling them out on their bullshit, as well as making sure people know that they aren't officially associated with this attention grab.

wow, now fans bitching about guns takin actions against something that was not fullfilled and actually standing behind fans... amazing. why do people care and think they know what guns should do? always complaining about something that is done how band thinks it should be done. no promotion, cd skips... yes guns should care how to earn as much money as they can and not care about fans at all... I am really amazed by some fans...

about time...seriously this was to be expected as  the whole dr pepper thing turned out such a scam to the point of being insulting to gn'r and the fans..

I hate to say "I told you so", but...just wait until the junk mail starts pouring in (for those that did 'register'), to add insult to injury.  :rant:

WTF? I thought Pepper extend the offer due to the problems?  ???

Don't ever try to tell me how much you care for me Dr Pepper :rofl:

It is simple.  Dr. Pepper came out saying they would offer a free pop to everyone in the U.S.    They then pull abullshit move saying 1 day only and the site crashes cause no site can handle 65 million people at the same time.  As for it costing DR. peper money the actual cost for them to sell a bottle is far less then what a consumer pays.  If Dr. Pepper was smart they would have done 23 days of free dr pepper so one had 23 days to get the coupon.  Not a hard concept just some fucking money men got involved and fucked it up

I don't understand the anger now.

I mean, the first response by the band and Axl was one of amusement, Axl even saying that he'd share his Dr. Pepper with Buckethead.

As for the redemption of the offer, I got registered for it just fine.

The one thing I can see is that Dr. Pepper did capitalize on the GNR franchise. I think if there is a legal case to this, that is where the issue lies. This whole thing about people not getting their soda, I think that's just padding for the legal motion.

That's it, Sorry is about Dr. Pepper.

GUNS N' ROSES Vs. DR PEPPER: Complete Letter Available - Nov. 26, 2008

BLABBERMOUTH.NET has obtained a copy of the entire three-page letter (see below) that was sent by GUNS N' ROSES' and Axl Rose's lawyer to Dr Pepper, accusing the soda maker of failing to deliver on its "Chinese Democracy" free soda promotion, which the band was never involved in.

Here: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=109700

A personal appology from the individual known as Kaneda to those misled by him GN'R fans would also be appropriate. While some may appreciate the free 6-packs given away by him, his accompanying message implying that this was on behalf of GN'R was not welcome at all. He should not have spoken on behalf of Dr Pepper in the first place to create this mess, and he certainly should have not pretended to have any association with GN'R.

I do believe they said, "Everyone in America"  Not  "everyone who happens to get through on our jammed up website for one day"  They should have made as many coupons as there are people in the US and just mailed them out with all the other junk mail coupons we get.

I personally think they should of included the free coupon's in the CD itself, while working with Guns N' Roses on the appriopriate way to let everyone know that if you purchase a album you will get a free Dr Pepper.  That's what the people at Dr Pepper should of said from the beggining.  I have no problem with Guns N' Roses taking action against the soft drink.  It took me till 11pm pacific time sunday, to actually get on the website and get my free coupon. While I checked monday, the server's were still down ! unbelievable  ! totally unprofessionable on Dr Pepper's part, to use Axl and Gun's the way they did.  Dr Pepper really dropped the ball on this one.

I guess if we were giving them the benefit of doubt Dr. Pepper would have fixed this problem on their own and GNR wouldn't have had to contact their attorney to send a threatening letter.  It's not really a big deal for me.  I really just wanted the coupon and hadn't planned on cashing it in.  Not an issue I want to see GNR spend their engery on.

Fuck Dr Pepper, they tried to mock Axl and he gave them a big shitburger to eat. they promised free DR pepper to EVERY American.

Not just a 2 day thing where their website was fucked for the majority.

That was an interesting read.  The possibility of consumer litigation had not even occurred to me, they seem like they mean business.

Sorry but, Dr. Fucking Pepper renegged on their promise. That's the truth. They did say "everyone in America" didn't they?? That's what I thought. Stop busting Axls bag man. This is just fucking pathetic now. They did use the dude. No matter what you think.

Honestly I have very little sympathy for giant corporations to begin with. These guys are swimming in tons of money. If they're going to talk shit about giving every person in the US a free beverage, I think they can bear to deliver on that.

I'd do the same thing if I were Axl. The fact is these guys initially only offered the deal for 24 hours to begin with. It's just a cop-out. They're shitting out on their promise when they have no right to, and by proxy they're potentially shitting up the GN'R name. No sympathy here.

But hey, I guess that makes me an attention whore. I must just be in it for the money.

Seriously. I don't get you guys. Axl steps up to call these people out on not delivering on their word, and you all bash him? The logic here completely escapes me.

didnt Axl respond to one of the Dr Peppers remarks?

They could make a counteraction and sue them for using the fame of Pepper?!

maybe if he'd step up and announce to the fans that, yes, he's aware the album has actually been released....or explain what the behind the scenes movement has been which is causing him to stay quiet.

again, we're bearing the burden. We funded his continued recording with the 2002 and 2006 Chinese Democracy world tours, and if i'm not mistaken he doesnt thank us fans in the booklet (i didnt read his line for line, but it didnt jump out) and now we're funding the record company washing its hands of Axl.

Anyone that cant see there's something seriously wrong with this situation (meaning everything involving the release that has so far happened, or not happened)shouldnt be operating heavy machinery...

Gotta give it to Axl's lawyer, he has a way with words  :hihi: 

I guess if you give shit-loads of people the impression you are running a promotion with a band (that you never approached prior to offering it), then screw that promotion up, you shouldn't be surprised if the band consider this defamation.

March 26, 2008

Press Release from Axl Regarding Dr Pepper

We are surprised and very happy to have the support of Dr Pepper with our album "Chinese Democracy," as for us, this came totally out of the blue. If there is any involvement with this promotion by our record company or others, we are unaware of such at this time. And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album, I'll share my Dr Pepper with him.

Axl Rose

http://www.gunsnroses.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080326&content_id=a1&vkey=news&fext=.jsp

It is a 50 cent can of Soda. They extended the offer and gave out an 800 number for people to call. Funny how we haven't heard from Axl but he has time to authorize his lawyers to do this.

How exactly did Dr. Pepper mock Axl? 

Well I think it was a "if this or that happens I'll eat my hat" type statement to begin with. I don't think they had any inside info that would lead them to believe this year would be any different than any before it and they probably the album would sit for at least the rest of the year.

That being said fuck them cause I didn't even know about the online registration thing until two days after it was over.

To me it would have been fine for a statement or letter or whatever to come out and express dissappointment and request that they extend the offer.  However, threatening a lawsuit and demanding compensation does not seem warranted in my opinion.  Had they not been happy with the association they should have expressed this in March when the offer was made.

I don't think this whole thing is a big deal at all really, it's being way overblown.  Dr. Pepper tried to do a promo thing, then realized they were going to be overwhelmed... free deals like this never work out easily.

I signed up for DR Pepper on Monday Night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/27/arts/music/27pepp.html

When asked about the letter, Dr Pepper said in a statement that the company took ?great steps? to accommodate the online requests from consumers.

?This was one of the largest responses we have ever received for a giveaway,? the statement said, ?and we?re happy we were able to satisfy the thirst of so many Dr Pepper fans.?

A spokesman said it was not known how many free sodas were given away on Sunday and Monday.

Mr. Rose?s representatives said that they tried to collaborate with Dr Pepper on the best way to distribute the soda, but that negotiations broke down.

?We had made an effort to turn this into a win-win-win ? for the American public, Dr Pepper and Axl,? said Laurie Soriano, one of Mr. Rose?s lawyers. ?But Dr Pepper?s view was just that Dr Pepper would win.?

Maybe Dr. Pepper thought Axl Rose would never release it lol. I was suprised myself.

I'm glad Axl took action on this though.

yea,  i saw this coming the other day... when i couldn't get my free drink.  i believe the only reason dr. pepper even attempted the whole online registration thing (knowing the demand would be too much and crash the site) was to get out as cheap as possible and attempt to avoid any legal trouble with the band by making it seem like they were honoring their deal

they knew exactly what the result would be

Yes

Ummm no... Dr Pepper thing come totally outta the blue by a fan, that happens to work for Dr Pepper.  Guns and their record label were not apart of it.  Needless to say that Dr Pepper should be alittle prepared.  They basically used the name and Axl for free publicity, Then when everyone in america get's a free Dr. Pepper and they call and get " OH ITS ONLY ONE PER HOUSEHOLD" BULLSHIT that's not what was advertised.

It is a 50 cent can of pop. I find it hard to take a poster seriously who refers to VR as Homo Rock. You know that 2 of those "homos" helped to build GNR right? Of course, dissing them clearly makes you a bigger GNR fan right  ::)

They extended the offer and gave out an 800 number. What the fuck do you want them to do? Knock on every door and hand deliver a can of pop. The line in the GNR letter about this  taking away from the release date is laughable. So you are gonna let a 50 cent can of pop take away from the enjoyment of ChiDem? Please.

I don't believe Dr. Pepper were mocking GN'R in any way. Axl sure didn't seem to think so at the time he released a statement regarding Dr. Pepper's promise.

However, they kind of did fuck it up when it came time to deliver. First, who in their right mind thought it would be a good idea to get as many americans as possible to log on to their website on the same day? Of course your servers will crash, that is a given. Second, the "every American" statement was a lie. If you're under 13 years of age, you parent will have to use their name and address in order to get you a coupon, and since it's one per American, that uses up their own coupon.

So they probably should have thought this through a little bit more.

The issue isn't Pepper making fun of Axl, Chinese Democracy, or the band.  It's failure to deliver its promise in a really unprofessional way.  You can't say as a business were going to give away free stuff if a certain event happens and then just do a half ass job when its time to pay up.  It's called false advertising.  let's say I run a coffee stand and I say if you buy one free mocha you can get a second one free (with coupon), so say a couple pulls up to the stand and they order both each a mocha. They ask for a free coupon and I go oh well its only one per vehicle !!! see the diffrence ? Dr Pepper said everyone in america gets a free Dr Pepper not just GnR fans.  Like how they made the 1 per household excuse, just like I showed that analogy in the coffee stand. 

As a business you cannot get away with that stuff.  That's if you wanna keep your business.

Seriously. Dr. Pepper is just selfish. They're using Guns to promote their own soda.

oh wow.. well then.. fuck dr.pepper  :hihi: I've never had it anyway

Take a sip of his tasty 23 flavored DR.PEPPER!!

Well since we must be the vocal fans, you tell me, Did the Dr.Pepper offer ruin the ChiDem release day for you?
?The redemption scheme your company clumsily implemented for this offer was an unmitigated disaster which defrauded consumers and, in the eyes of vocal fans, ?ruined? the day of Chinese Democracy?s release?.
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/inde...er-soda-fiasco/


Can anyone here tell me this ruined the release of ChiDem for them?

why would it ruin someones day,

we have waited for 15 years for the music,
I wouldn't give a fuck about some soft drink .

(although im from Oz, so I was never looking forward to a dr pepper, but still).

Did you not read the letter I posted from Axl's Lawyers? They said it did so I was asking if anyone on here agreed.

The americans were probably looking forward to the dr pepper,
and it would of been a nice free bonus when buying the cd..

But I don't know why it would ruin the day of actually obtaining chinese democracy,
sure its a let down,
but ruining the experience?

thats a bit of an over exaggeration,
Im sure dr Pepper will get what they deserve hopefully.

because i'm a die hard fan, i was going to buy cd for sure anyway.  but i talked to a bunch of my friends, and they were on the fence about buying it.  but after failin got get their free dr. pepper for an extra day, they got really mad and totally decided to take it out on axl.  for sure, this dr. pepper scandal ruined cd for a lot of people.  they simply could not enjoy the music anymore.  it really fucking pisses me off.

Your friends didn't buy ChiDem over a fucking 50 cent can of pop? Wow, they must be really big rock fans ::)

How about telling them to listen to the MUSIC and not worry about a cheap ass can of pop?

It's a can of pop not a fucking car giveaway.

it's the whole experience.  it's not just about the can of soda.  it's about the build up and the hype and the excitement of getting the can of soda.  like i say they were on the fence anyways.  this just tipped the scales. 

this is an absolute disagrace!  and because chinese democracy day was ruined for them, it was ruined for me.  i'd waited so long to be able to show them up by blasting the cd int the car on the way home -- WHILE SIPPING OUR DR. PEPPERS.  it didnt' happen.  whos' fault is it?  axl's?  no, he's the one who's caring about the fans here.

What a bunch of fucking cry babies.

But we knew in advance that you didn't get the Dr.Pepper right away. Why not just spring for the 3 cans so that you guys could have enjoyed the Dr. Pepper on the way home?
What fucking excitement is there in getting a can of soda? Getting ChiDem yes, a can of soda? WTF? Come on. You should have sprung the 2 bucks and bought your friends the 3 cans.

On second thought if someone chose to not buy the album based on a fucking can of soda, I would rather they not listen to GNR anyway. Most of the songs would be over their heads if this is the kind of logic they use. Tell them to stick with Nickelcrack.

So your day was ruined because your friends were upset that they didn't get their dr pepper?
were you actually looking forward to chinese?

I hope Axl gets the best outcome out of this situation, but at the same time, I hope this legal battle doesn't consume to much time in the wake of the promotion..
anyways Im sure things will pick up from dec 2 onwards.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Hey man, they wanted their free soda and since they didn't get it, they chose not to buy ChiDem. Sounds logical ::)

Logical to a fucking three year old. :hihi:

THis shit ain't burger king , it ain't have it your way.

Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses should sue Irving Azoff and Andy Gould for failing to deliver "a monumental campaign developed by Gary Arnold and the Best Buy team that matches the groundbreaking sound of the album itself"

OMG, so dramatic!

Not really. Falungong69's friends were so upset over their lack of a free Dr.Pepper that they didn't buy the album. I say rally the troops and start the lawsuits!

Well I -was- planning on taking a drive with the album while sipping my free Doc Pep, to really "drink in" the full experience of the album's release, but the latter part obviously fell through. Totally ruined it for me.

Dr. Pepper! (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Lupin_Sansei/emot-argh-1.gif)

That fucking drink tastes like ass anyway.
I've drank it like once in my whole life, when I was a kid.
Boycott that piss.

Dr Pepper got owned! they tried to make a joke about Chi-Dem and it actually came out! LOL sucked in

pwnage. :smoking:

huge media coverage for brand awareness
at my work, we spent 3 millions euros last year on brand awareness alone.
next gn'r CD you'll get a free masacara from my brand ;)

Personally, I think the whole thing is a bit sad, and not at all what I was expecting.  From "GNR release Democracy" to "No Chinese Democracy Buzz at Best Buy" to "GNR demands apology from Dr. Pepper," I have to say I was hoping for headlines that reflect a more positive outlook on the album and sales, rather than the band suing someone, Best Buy dropping the ball, etc.

And the album going platinum in Finland doesn't count.    :hihi:

Seriously, I don't blame the band at all, and Dr. Pepper was stupid for making a claim they couldn't back up, but still.   Not the type of news or publicity I was hoping for at such an awesome time in GNR history, you know?

Thats what they get for thinking they will cash in on chinese democracy and gnr.

This whole fiasco is all over the radio here in Canada....it's great because all of the stations I've heard mention this story support Guns n' Roses, and are pretty much saying that Dr. Pepper shouldn't have opened their mouths if they couldn't produce.

Good for the lawyers on this one. The promotion should have lasted for longer than a day. 300 million people can't register in 1 day.

 :no:  This whole thing is pretty ridiculous really.  Why doesn't Axl just come out of hiding already and make himself look good instead of sicking his hounds on others and accusing them of making him look bad?  :rant:  I understand asking them to make good on their promise, but really ...  

I don't understand why they didn't pick a better statagy, something as simple as a coupon available at a grocery chain, or even at BB for that matter, whatever it may be it is not like they didn't have enough time to figure this out.  What were they thinking? On a serious note, the non fans could probably care less, but those of us who are strong supporters of the band, well it is a small part of this long awaited release made big for those of us who give a shit, and we would all like to collect on a promise made, as said above it is sad it has come to this and that Axl has to deal with yet another lawsuit, on his glory day.  Face it Dr Pepper you have spoiled everyones fun. ::)

Man some of you are really drinking the kool aid. This ruined ChiDems realease for you? Are you fucking kidding me? We wait ten years and FINALLY get the album and anyone is concerned with a free 50 cent can of pop? I could see outrage if they promised free cars but a free pop? Wow.

I hope this is sarcasm but since one guy on here is claiming it prevented his buddys from buying the album, I guess ya never know.

It is (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Lupin_Sansei/emot-ssh.gif)

It's a 50 cent can of pop. They said in advance that people would have to mail in for the coupon. They extended the offer and gave out an 800 number. What else should they have done? Hand delivered it? For fucks sake, it's a can of pop. Anyone who can afford ten bucks for a CD can go get themselves a can of pop.

Have you read some of the replies on here? I guess they feel compelled to agree with Axl's lawyers that this promotion ruined the ChiDem release date for some fans.  I can't believe this. I don't give a shit what Dr.Pepper did that day, nothing was gonna take away from my enjoyment of CD.

Nonetheless, like I said earlier, Dr. Pepper ultimately failed to deliver on its word and pretty much copped out. If they're going to attach GN'R's name to a half-hearted, mishandled campaign that they weren't prepared to back up, then I don't blame them for retaliating. I'd do the same. I'd call them out on it.

Even if Pepper guaranteed everyone would get one, it makes no difference. It's still constitutes a gift. You did not suffer a loss as a result of Dr Pepper not following through. Axl nor the general public gave up anything of value in exchange for the Dr Peppers, thus no consideration was given. The Peppers were promised as gifts. A lawsuit would get thrown out of court because promises made for gifts are not enforceable. end of story.

yeah, okay man.  companies should just be allowed to break promises to fans and fail to deliver when they say they will.  yeah, that should just be acceptable.  as a fan of gnr, i don't think they should be allowed to get my hopes up and then fail to give me what i expect.  or make me wait longer than i should have.  if you think companies should have the right to treat fans that way, then bend over and let yourself keep getting fucked by dr. pepper.  but if you're ready to stand up for honesty and integrity, then you'll support axl.  but why am i not surprised to see haters trying to spin this?

simple fact:  23rd was about chinese demcoracy and dr. pepper.  the country had its hopes up and was very excited.  axl delivered on his end -- brilliantly well i should add.  but dr. pepper dropped the ball.  now axl's holding them accountable for all the shit they caused in fans lives.

Are you high? The economy is in piss poor shape, you really think the average American gives a flying fuck about a free can of Dr.Pepper? The country had it's hopes up over a fucking can of pop?-That may be funniest thing I have ever read on here.

"Honey, you know I think we might lose the house"

"Dear, I don't have time to worry about that, I gotta log on for my free Dr. Pepper"

Read my post, you can't sue over failing to deliver on a gift.

well if you love dr. pepper and hate axl so much, why not join a dr. pepper forum? 

axl's made it very clear how dr. pepper used and abused gnr's good name and disappointed the fans across america.  that's not cool with me, and it's not cool with axl.  apparently it's cool with you.  nice to know who's side your own when the chips are down.  remind me never to turn my back on you.

Son, I have been following GNR for twenty years.Paid to see them many times. You made it out t seem like the average American was affected by this.
LOL@remind me to never turn my back on you. Once again ,it is a can of Pop. I'll mail your friends a 12 pack if that will get them to buy the album.
I would never join a Dr.Pepper forum, I think it tastes nasty as hell.

Imagine how much revenue ($$$) GNR fans have generated for Dr. Pepper in the last 8 MONTHS since Axl acknowledged this promotion.  Dr. Pepper owes us what they promised!!!

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1878

excessively procedurial, to say the least.

scapegoating a soda company for ruining the release day is childish. Drop the 50 cents and buy your own soda. The absurdity of GnR fans is reaching a new level.

are you claiming this ridiculous stunt is behind the cd only selling 300k?

btw, the whole first paragraph of your post could be about axl...promises, fail to deliver, waiting longer than we should. Shit they caused in fans lives...you really need to get a dose of reality.

he only seemed to make it clear yesterday....why wait 6 months to attack Dr Pepper?

Hate to say this, but I think this is just a 'diffrent' way of promoting the album.

Just like the Chinese getting upset and Robin joining NIN, its all publicity that keeps their name out there and hopefully shifts more copies

Dose if reality?  Did you even read the "attack" on Dr. Pepper?  It was about them failing to deliver on their promise.  Until that point, there was no issue.

Secondly, I don't recall Axl promising everyone in America a free copy of Chinese Democracy.  It seems to me that you're too afraid to believe in something beautiful, and Axl actually delivering on everything we hoped he would, so you have to lash out at those that aren't too afraid to stand up for what the man is doing.

Axl Rose Accuses Dr Pepper of Malpractice

(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/eonline/20081127/capt.b1b5651dc7798a9897389069c288020c.jpg?x=213&y=213&xc=1&yc=1&wc=300&hc=300&q=100&sig=xUI_oJPmgD7B.0SU4fpVNg--)

Los Angeles (E! Online) ? All is fair in Chinese Democracy, except when the citizens are denied the opportunity to drink what the Dr ordered.

Axl Rose, wholely mum when Dr Pepper announced that it would bestow a free 20-ounce bottle to all Americans when Guns N' Roses' years-in-the-making album finally dropped, is taking the company to task via his attorney after learning that not all customers were served.

The soft-drink slinger had arranged to bestow online coupons to any thirsty freebie-seeker who visited its website on Nov. 23, but the site crashed due to...well, high traffic brought on by people's insatiable desire for free stuff.

The promotion was extended for another day, but the site was reportedly unreachable for most of it.

And despite what surely is Rose's sympathy for those who have trouble meeting customer demand, his lawyer is calling the attention-getting ploy an "unmitigated disaster which defrauded customers."

In a letter to Dr Pepper Snapple Group Inc, Beverly Hills-based Alan Gutman demanded that the company extend the promotion and place full-page apologies in the Los Angeles Times, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and USA Today.

Calling the campaign an "exploitation of my clients' legendary reputation and their eagerly awaited album, Gutman wrote that "mocking undertones" in the Dr Pepper promotion made for a "raw and damaging commercial exploitation of our clients' rights," which was then made even worse by the "shoddy execution of your disingenuous giveaway offer."

Oh, and the band would like some money now, too.

Threatening further legal action if no reparations are made, Gutman requests "appropriate payment...for the unauthorized use and abuse of their publicity and intellectual property rights."

Dr Pepper declined to comment on Guns N' Roses' version of events.

Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20081127/en_top_eo/70871

This is correct. I myself spent over $120 in the last week on Dr Pepper misled by their "promotional campaign" supposedly supporting the release of CD. That's money I otherwise would have never spent on the nasty drink. I imagine thousands of other GN'R fans may be in a similar situation. When you add it up, the damages become substantial.

It may be also that Dr Pepper misled the GN'R camp too into rushing the release of the record and therefore not execute the perfect delivery as is evident from the booklet problems and the not too well planned promotional campaign. GN'R would have never wanted to deprive 300M Americans from what was rightfully theirs to collect.

i like the CD a lot, except for scraped and the the mastered Catcher in the Rye, which never happened. The dr pepper thing has zero to do with what he's doing.

as an aside, why wont Axl stand up for what he's doing by doing ANY promotion, appearances, press releases? Why wouldnt they have partnered with Dr Pepper earlier? this lawsuit is a diversion....

$120 on dr pepper? and you dont even like the drink? uhmmm....

So people started all of a sudden buying Dr. Pepper because of this?

That's kinda pathetic.

It was for work. I wanted to raise awareness of the CD release. Since I couldn't really afford to buy 300+ CD copies of the album for my co-workers I decided to go with Dr Pepper misled by their national support for the release. I still reached to every one of my co-workers and I don't regret that part at all. However,  I do feel cheated by the fact that I've at same time supported the sales of a soda company that misused the GN'R name for their own profit while failing to deliver on their promise.

First of all, it's not pathetic.  Secondly, it wasn't all of a sudden.  ::)


I'll type slow so maybe you can follow the logic .....

you're a GNR fan ... you're all excited about the SOON-TO-BE-RELEASED CHINESE DEMOCRACY ... you go to the store to buy some soda and there on the shelf, along side all the other brands, is dr. pepper ... you pick up whatever brand(s) you usually buy and ALSO grab some dr. pepper with a smile in your heart because you THINK that they, LIKE YOU, are CELEBRATING GUNS N' ROSES!!!

LOL. I woulden't drink Dr. Pepper if you paid me too.

I think this is hilarious honestly...

I wish Axl n' company would do something more to promote this album more. This album deserves it.  ::)

Sorry...Diet Dr Pepper is my soda of choice.  That's not going to change.  GN'R isn't going to influence that choice.  I guess that makes me a bad GN'R fan in many eyes here.  I don't understand the whole Dr Pepper thing and why it's such a big deal to everyone.  I understand that not everyone got a soda coupon as promised because of Dr Pepper not being prepared for the onslaught.  But as pointed out...it's SODA!  As for the whole "Dr Pepper used GN'R's influence to promote their product" thing...well, yep.  But, it didn't seem as if that was a big deal a few months ago, but now it is.  I just don't get it.

I love GN'R's music.  I admire Axl Rose.  But, not everything in life revolves around GN'R. 

It's SODA!!!  UGH!

Cheers Sukie and drink up!  :beer:

(http://www.impawards.com/1984/posters/revenge_of_the_nerds.jpg)

I feel like I'm watching a live internet version right now.

that's called being a sheep to advertising and its hilarious you are trying to insult my intelligence, when you are the one who bought some fucking product just because they used somebody famous.

I find that pretty hilarious.

(http://shepmedia.com/Paul'sCorner/bah-bah-bah.jpg)

I may be being stupid but how is it possible to spend $120 on Dr P and then say you were misled by their promotional campaign? They did say "one" free can to every person.


Anyway, now that the wait for CD is over, this situation should keep us entertained. GNR vs Dr Pepper. ;D

From a business standpoint, GnR should sue them

Dr. Pepper used GnR's name and notoriety to promote their own product without permission, made a guarantee tied to GnR, then failed to deliver on their guarantee which in a "guilty by association" sense made Guns look bad even though they weren't involved in the promotion

Their free soda offer was a joke because they "delivered" it in such a way that most people couldn't even sign up for the coupon

raise awareness of the CD release? do you work for them? was the promise of a monumental campaign not enough? And how does handing out Dr Pepper promote GnR? Like, okay, they made that announcement a while back, but they never did commercials or ads for it as far as i know. The only way i knew about was here and a small blurb in the newspaper, which is only slightly less than what the official CD promo was...point being, you then have to explain that GnR's album is coming out AND why the hell Dr Pepper means anything relative to that...

but was there a GnR advert next to the Dr Pepper? would anyone have known why you were buying DP, like they might have surmised if they had a picture of Axl on it, as a well done campaign would have had? no, because A) it wasnt as ad campaign, as far as i know, and GnR was tacitly approving of the free publicity by not suing in the first place and B) GnRs management decided not to take full advantage of the free publicity

Dr Pepper promised a drink to every US citizen bar two. If that does not happen, then let the Gods do their damage.

I just hope for them it was not one coupon per household. If that is the case, then  :nervous:

A good jockey always checks the horses he rides.

   
     Well they weren't selling Dr.Pepper at the liquor store when I was there. Thank God and could care less, we are talking about a can of soda for 55 cents! Wow! what a rowdy bunch of GNR fans you are! (those who are complaining of course).

What happened to..."one for you, two for me, by tonight". I bought some Champagne and Scotch and Beer for my listening party. There was no need for mr. pepper.


I think GNR and their whole team should be focusing on the monumental campaign we are all still waiting for. And not bitchslapping soda companies.

for the record that was a scott weiland diss and vr still suck

LMAO WOW

i'm sorry but that article was funny, They use the G'n'R name to get awareness of their product, if anything it was the other way around to let people know "hey G'n'R are still out there and they have an all new really bad ass thing coming out".

However, i don't think that it was right that their lawyer totally belittled Dr Pepper like that since they got all that free publicity out of them. I think him and the G'n'R camp should have came together and thought of a letter to send to them publicly saying how thankful they are for the free publicity but that they don' think it was right that most fans haven't been able to recieve their free drink or something like that instead of totally bitch slapping Dr Pepper like the lawyer did.

:peace:

Did Axl really need to drop a lawsuit though? I mean, I love the whole apology thing. It makes me think that he's really stickin his neck out for us. It's like saying "you dissed my family..now say you're sorry"

But really, I don't think the monetary suit is necessary. We've had enough lawsuits for a lifetime.

But in all seriousness? Thanks Uncle Axl. We love you too man

dude, they tricked us into thinking they supported axl and chinese demcoracy when really they were just having fun.  i get so much shit from my friends for being a gnr fan.  i was really excited to think that there was  finally a major company that was being supportive of me and the artists i admire.  so i responded in kind by buying tons of the soda.  i don't even like soda.  but i made sure to always have plenty of dr. pepper's on hand when my friends came over.  and every time i served dr. pepper, i got to segue the conversation to gnr...  we talked about the new songs and how brian may and lars ulrich said really great stuff about axl and the new music.  so they were kinda almost convinced to buy the cd.  as you can see, it had a whole lot to do with dr. pepper.  so that morning, when they tried to get their free soda  (in addition to the free ones i gave them over the months) they just said fuck it all.

I don't care i don't need a free Dr. pepper i got the CD i been waiting so long for and i have a 21 month old son who bounces to the songs and shares gnr with me so to me that is all i ever need.

 :hihi:

I kicked your ass like I said that I would

in the context of you, who cares if some company supports Axl?

and you need a prop to segue a convo towards something you want to talk about? wallflower much?

since it wasnt a band-corporation tie in, maybe you shouldnt have been pushing the non-relationship...or mayb e the band should have taken advantage of the free publicity, as they tacitly did all along.

what do you think your friends think of you, always handing out Dr Pepper and turning the talk towards GnR? you tink that's a move that engenders respect both for you and the band? the music should do the talking, especially if Axl wont, not some soda pop buy-off.

Dr. Pepper did fuck up on this big time. We are better off drinking jack daniels over Dr. Pepper anyway.  :beer: 

Axl Rose Fighting For The Common Man

2008-11-28

Who says eccentric rock stars can?t also be men of the people? Guns N Roses lead singer Axl Rose has lashed out at soft-drink giant Dr. Pepper after the company?s website failed, screwing millions of overweight sugar enthusiasts out of their free fixes. I?d probably be furious too, if the offer had been for complementary Mountain Dew or Diet Sunkist, but Dr. Pepper is a C+ at best.

In case you?re out of the loop, let me connect the dots as to how this involves Axl. A spokesman for Dr. Pepper announced back in the day that if Guns N Roses ever released a new album, they would give away free sodas. Surprisingly, Axl got on board with the idea, and earlier this year, the decade-in-the-making Chinese Democracy was released to much hoopla. Unfortunately, Dr. Pepper?s website crashed as fans tried to redeem the offer, and now, according to TMZ, Axl is demanding a printed apology from the pop providers and unspecified damages for using the GNR name and not coming through on their end of the bargain.

Here?s to hoping Dr. Pepper extends the deadline. I might even get in on the offer this time around.

http://www.cinemablend.com/celebrity/Axl-Rose-Fighting-For-The-Common-Man-13665.html

How did they fuck up? They extended the offer when they didn't have to and gave an 800 number out for people to call. People need to get a grip. It is a can of fucking pop. If someone claims their life is adversely affected by this, then they have problems.

maybe you have problems because you think it should be okay for companies to lie and steal and make money off of gnr's name and hard work.  hey, if that's the way you think, then great.  just let someone else take part of your hard earned money.  let other people trade on your reputation and make fun of you in subtle ways. 

this is bigger than a can of soda now.  it's about right and wrong and drawing a line and sticking up for people who deserve it.  if you want to be on the wrong side of that fight, then so be it.  honestly, i'm not surprised. 

This is a big mistake on Axl's/GN'R's part.

I can definitely see their point, and agree they have just cause to question Dr. Pepper in it's overall failure to accommodate EVERY U.S. citizen on their promise.

But, the bigger issue here is Chinese Democracy is still in it's first week of release.  And the biggest shopping day in America is TODAY, beginning in about 30 mins.  People don't need a sour taste in their mouths when they pass by the GN'R rack at Best Buy.  This has already pissed a lot of people off and so far from what I've read on random websites has only hurt Axl's public image (which has never been great, but lately has been mostly pleasant).

This could have and should have waited at least until the first week of sales was complete.  This move by the lawyers could quite possibly short-circuit the album's momentum.

Wow,ok, explain this posted on the front page of HTGTH then: Can you and your friends not read? they told you what to do to get your coupon! Holy fuck man, you think the average American struggling to live week to week gives a fuck about a free fucking can of soda.Some of you are delusional:

Don't forget to register at drpepper.com tomorrow (Nov 23rd) for your free Dr Pepper.

1. On the Nov. 23, 2008 release date, go to www.drpepper.com
2. Register your information to receive a coupon for one free 20-oz. Dr Pepper.
3. When your coupon arrives, redeem it wherever Dr Pepper is sold.
4. Drink your Dr Pepper slowly to experience all 23 flavors. Dr's orders.

Coupons will be available for 24 hours, starting at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Time on Nov. 23, 2008

PRESS RELEASE
Guns N' Roses, Chinese Democracy, November 23

Last update: 1:04 p.m. EST Nov. 22, 2008
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Nov 22, 2008
/PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Chinese Democracy has finally arrived. One of the most highly anticipated albums in rock history, Chinese Democracy will be in stores this Sunday, November 23rd. Guns N' Roses is ready to rock once again.

Chinese Democracy (Black Frog/Geffen Records) will be available on CD and vinyl (accompanied by a free digital download of the tracks) at Best Buy and Best Buy.com in the U.S., and digitally through iTunes.

For those who heard about Dr Pepper's offer to give each and every American a free can of soda if Chinese Democracy is released in 2008, Guns N' Roses wants to make sure every Guns N' Roses fan, and every other American, gets what was promised. The band is not involved in this promotion, but understood that every American (with a couple of exceptions) would get a free can of Dr Pepper. Apparently, only those who go to the soda company's Web site on Sunday, November 23 and sign up for a free 20 ounce soda coupon will get the free can. Guns N' Roses encourages all those interested to sign up for their coupon on Sunday, collect their drink and celebrate the release of Chinese Democracy!
SOURCE Black Frog/Geffen Records

How did Dr P make any money off the GNR name? Offering free cans doesn't seem like a particularly good way of making money to me.

What a stupid thing for Axl and his lawyers to complain over. Surely they must have more important things in life to amuse themselves with.

just on this board I've seen people from all over buying dr.pepper on the release dates to celebrate..

myspace had no problem handling the traffic

I agree. The way the server crashed just made the promotion seem insincere to me. I'm still not sure if my order went through. My brother and I were discussing this, and he said, "YOU would defend Axl no matter what," and I said, "Damn proud of it!"

You know...I'm one of the ones that say, "It's soda!"  I really can't get all worked up about this one. 

But, I'd like to point out that it's not a CAN of soda.  It's a 20 oz. which means it's a bottle.  And those cost more than 50 cents or whichever number keeps getting bandied about here. 

Not quite sure, but I think around here a 20 oz. costs about $1.40.  :)

Still, I just don't think this should be a huge issue in the whole scheme of things.

Take a look at these happenings and then judge for yourself:

- Kaneda - a known member of mygnrforum.com has repeatedly said the album would never be released.

- Kaneda's PR. Firm is contracted by Dr.Pepper, nonetheless.

- Several stories surfaced in the past year as to Dr.Pepper losing ground in the global soft drink market.

- Kaneda, being a "supposed" fan of the band, approaches upper marketing management with his ingenious idea to get free publicity for the company.

- Kaneda convinces Dr.Pepper upper-ups that there is no chance the album would be released this year.

- Kaneda is so convincing that Dr.Pepper does not even get insurance on the marketing proposal. (On a side note, I have run similar marketing campaigns for multi-million dollar dealerships. Free give aways, $100,000 cash give aways, etc. There are insurance companies out there that will insure these type of promos...unfortunately, Kaneda & Dr. Pepper apparently didn't want to spend the $500,000 - $1,000,000 (just a guess) or so it would cost to insure this magnitude of a promo - to them it was a sure bet that Chinese Democracy would never see the light of day.)

- Look what happened when it was almost certain Chinese Democracy would be released:

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=...p;art_aid=91506


Coincidence?? I think not.

- Once it was a sure thing Chinese Democracy was going to be released they had to figure out a way to save their own asses. They figure, we'll give the fans 24 hours to fill out a form on our website only. They knew their website would only be able to handle a certain amount of traffic. After the 24 hours were up, they maybe would have to give out a few hundred thousand drinks max (if that) ....not bad for a promised 300,000,000+

- Fans start to complain so in order to avoid public scrutiny, they issue a few statements and extend the promo a day. Big f'n deal....they knew their phone lines would only handle a certain amount of customers, max....

- Dr.Pepper cashed in on hundreds of articles written about Chinese Democracy - they were mentioned in almost every one. Had the album not been released, it would have been one of the most ingenious free marketing campaigns ever created. Unfortunately for Dr. Pepper & Kaneda, Axl came through...

That's fair enough, but it was their choice to their spend money on it.




On a side note, I wonder if Axl ever got his free can? Perhaps he didn't and that's the real reason for this lawsuit. :P

It's hilarious how some people will paint Axl and the band to be the bad guy no matter what the situation

I couldn't care less about getting the can of Dr. Pepper, it really makes no difference to me.  Strictly from a business perspective, the lawsuit makes sense

Dr. Pepper made the offer, and the band didn't put up a fight because it was free promotion for them.  Okay, fair enough, both parties were getting positive publicity

But it's obvious now that Dr. Pepper never really expected the album to be released.  Personally I don't care but some of you guys complaining about the lawsuit aren't even thinking about the business and marketing aspects of this situation.  Because the bottom line is that Dr. Pepper's botched delivery of the free soda made GnR look bad even though they were never formally involved with the promotion.  That is the issue here.  It's not about an individual person being pissed off about not getting a free soda.  It's about a huge company using someone else's image and reputation to promote their product without a contract or permission, and then failing to deliver on a promise and by association making Axl and Guns look bad

To me it's fucking hilarious that people are actually upset that Axl is trying to make Dr. Pepper keep their promise and deliver the free soda to all the fans.  Like Axl is insulting you by trying to make sure that everyone who wanted a free soda gets one.  What the hell?

From Dr. Pepper's PR firm regarding the concept of their disruptive PR campaign targeting Axl/GNR...


To use a real life example, take the case of Dr Pepper, a Ketchum client. Its primary target audience is young men, and its primary brand attribute is that it's flavorful. Given that, its marketing and PR voice has always been a bit irreverent.
 
But our client Greg Artkop challenged us to go beyond that. No more doing the stuff that the brand thinks is cool; let's engage our enthusiasts by doing something that they think is cool, with the hope being that it would create a deeper connection.
 
Our concept: Encourage Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose to release his decade-in-the-making album Chinese Democracy by offering a free Dr Pepper to everyone in America if the album drops in 2008.
 
At first blush it might seem bizarre, but to date it's generated over 300 million impressions and has created an almost immeasurable connection between the brand and millions of GNR fans. Why? Because the brand put itself in the place of one of its subdemographics ? music enthusiasts ? and approached it from their perspective: what would they appreciate, find entertaining, and think is cool. And we made it authentic and funny by purposely excluding estranged GNR guitarists Slash and Buckethead from the free Dr Pepper offer ? a small but critical touch.
 
It worked so well that the reclusive Axl Rose actually thanked Dr Pepper on the official GNR Web site, and revealed that he would share his Dr Pepper with Buckethead because a few of his tracks were still on the album. That might seem like an insignificant thing to most people, but to the GNR fans we were targeting, this was news ? big news. They appreciated what Dr Pepper had done, mostly because it was so unexpected, unusual, and out of the ordinary for a company. Their feedback to us (in the form of thousands of blog posts): who knew that Dr Pepper had a sense of humor?
 
Disruptive PR isn't about attention grabbing stunts, cheesy ploys, or message-driven campaigns. Quite the opposite: It's relating to enthusiasts in a way that attracts their attention ? disrupts them so to speak ? on their terms, not ours. It's not easy ? in fact it's very hard ? but it's going to be essential for brands to remain relevant.

http://www.ketchum.com/nick_ragone_chris_kooluris_era_of_disruptive_pr_article

Fucking mooching frauds...

Imagine this whole thing turning out like this for Dr. Pepper... Bet they didn't see that one coming...

I doubt Ketchum will be a going concern for much longer  :hihi:

FunkyMonkey, that's an old article, no? The way you posted may appear to some that the article was written in response to the law suit which it isn't.  Or, did you mean to bring it to the attention of the GN'R lawyers who may be collecting evidence about Ketchum/Dr Pepper whose intentions all along were to boost their reputation and sales respectively at the expense of the GN'R name?

Mysteron, I don't think the law suit is any way directed towards Ketchum. Although, yes, they certainly have a damaged reputation right now and most likely ended any contractual agreements with Dr Pepper.

KasanovaKing, I agree with some of your theory, but not all. I don't follow mygnr much but yesterday I saw a poster dig out some of Kaneda's posting history from 2006/07. I was surprized to see how negative his posts were. Posters such as him would have been banned here long ago (and maybe he was). So, yeah, it may seem like the guy never believed the album will truly come out. However, his posting history totally changed in 2008 and his messages to the few fans he sent free 6-packs a few months ago certainly suggested the guy is actually optimistic about the album release now. So, my view on the whole situation is that the option of the album being released was certainly considered in the equation. But maybe, just maybe, in that case Ketchum/ Dr Pepper expected GN'R to contact (or join) them in a co-promotional campaign, which then would've been perceived as benefiting both parties involved. But since that didn't happen Dr Pepper had to get out of the situation incurring the least possible costs. So, then they erected that mountain of obstacles for people to clain their free soda, including taking down the web site with their "press releases" on the matter and not mentioning GN'R or their album in any way anywhere anymore.
You are talking about hundreds of thousands people responding to their offer. I think it's way less than that - like 10,000 at best. Think about it, the offer was known mainly to the GN'R message board fans a large percentage of whom didn't even wanna take advantage of it due to the personal info collection and the 6-week waiting period to claim the soda. Also, on that first day, the web site was operational for only a few hours, like 5 or 6. On the following day, a customer service phone number was given but that was just one number again active only for a few hours. Adding to that the fact that suddenly a limitation of one soda per household was imposed if you ordered from the web site, the numbers shrink substantially. So, Dr Pepper would not have spent more than a few thousand dollars on the whole thing. Which is absolutely ridiculous compared to the hypothetical upper bound of 20M someone came up with if they were to give a free drink to every American as was their initial promise.
I agree that in the case of a no album release scenario the big winner in this whole situation would have been Dr Pepper and Ketchum, as they would have then be perceived by the American public as the good guys trying to to do something generous for the whole country, while Axl and Guns would have been depicted as the bad guys breaking on yet another promise and not caring about America in general. Look, who's laughing now?

Just to be clear, yes, Dr. Pepper screwed up, and they shouldn't have done the promotion if they weren't sure they could handle it.

That said, the server load issue is one that I am particularly sympathetic too because I have been in several similar situtations, and I know how difficult it can be to prepare for the vast bombardment of traffic that will come.

Regarding myspace, there is absolutely no comparison.  Myspace has a massive cluster spread out across multiple datacenters and routinely handles incredibly massive amounts of traffic.  Dr Pepper is probably hosted a on single server environment.  It's like comparing an ant to a lion.

Regardless, still, they shouldn't have been making promises they couldn't keep.

wouldn't doubt it one bit if thats what really happened but i thought Dr Pepper was like the world favorite soda? that kinda suprises me that i'm not the only one that think they suck. really, who the hell needs 23 flavors? do they even make "REGULAR" fucking Dr Pepper any more?

10,000 at best??  don't be naive, this was all over the radio, and regular news broadcasts..
don't be ridiculous, even though i think axl (or "gn'r") are being ridiculous by having more lawsuits and court cases.. even as something as free press..?

the free soda thing was known, even people that i know that give half a crap about gn'r, sort of like "even average joe" knew about the free soda.

I didn't say it was in response to the lawsuit...but that it was an article explaining their PR campaign using Axl/GNR.  And I did not post it to bring it to anyone's attention.

Did Dr. Pepper "boost their reputation and sales respectively at the expense of the GN'R name"... :-\

Actually, I believe Dr.Pepper has dropped to #4 Worldwide - it was once #3.  As to the 23 flavors, that is just their "ingredients" for each Dr.Pepper - not 23 different sodas.

The only problem I have with this is, I never expected in a million years that the first word from GNR after the CD release would be a lawsuit against DR pepper instead of promoting the CD


Hello GNR.... u do realize your CD is out right?

Yes, I believe until 2 days ago (starting March) Dr Pepper did boost its sales and at the same time Ketchum boosted (or tried to) its reputation as a marketing agency by issuing statements as the one you quoted. Basically, they are bragging about how ingenious their idea was and how much publicity it generated for Dr Pepper, no? It's like adding an item to your resume. Only problem is, it wasn't well thought and it came back to bite them.

This is not a lawsuit. It's an open letter to Dr Pepper.

For those who might be easily confused, Axl is actually on our side in this.


There's not really any reason to start pointing fingers at Axl or the band.




/jarmo

Isn't it a threat for a lawsuit if Dr Pepper doesn't comply with the list of demands?


Axl stuck up for the fans and every American and some are unhappy with this?

 Only on here would there be a person who agrees with Axl's lawyer that the release of Chinese Democracy over a freakin can of pop (that was never promised to be given out on the release date anyway!) was ruined for some people due to this. You show me one true GNR fan who had the release date spoiled for them in any way over this. I'll wait.

You don't have much understanding of business or marketing do you?

It has nothing to do with an individual person's day being ruined by not receiving a free can of Dr. Pepper

Perhaps you can't read Son. From the letter by Axl's lawyer. Fans can't sue when Axl doesn't show up for a scheduled performance but GNR can when a pop company doesn't meet the demand of a free giveaway?

?The redemption scheme your company clumsily implemented for this offer was an unmitigated disaster which defrauded consumers and, in the eyes of vocal fans, ?ruined? the day of Chinese Democracy?s release?.

How the fuck did this ruin the release for anyone?

My day was sorta runied the day before the release. As soon as I found out what the conditions are to reclaim your "free soda" (which I admit I read kinda late), I expressed my disappointment in lengths here:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=54585.msg1133896#msg1133896

Notice, this was still on 22nd my time (pacific), hours before the Dr Pepper server crashed and the 1 soda per household new condition came about, and days before GN'R threatened Dr Pepper with a law suit. So, for you to somehow suggest that fans jumped on Axl's bandwaggon once his lawyer's press release was issued and without thinking in any rational way, is an insult to those fans.

Im not upset at Axl over this, I am just a little baffled as to why this is the first thing we've heard since CD is out.

i'm sorry but his dr pepper shit seems so insignificant in comparison to the fact that we just got the new GnR album.

Axl is just doing what he thinks is best in taking up for the fans.   Of course the same usual suspects will talk shit as Axl can do nothing right in their eyes, no matter what he does.    Fuck, no wonder he barely says a word.

It's a fucking can of pop. Go purchase your own if you want one that bad. Holy fuck, we wait ten years for an album and you have the release date disrupted over a free can of pop? Step into the real world man. If they had said free cars, then people could complain but it is a can of pop. Again, the average American struggling to make ends meet is not thinking or losing sleep over a free can of pop.

Why don't I sue Axl for not showing up for performances? That costs a lot more in terms of money, expenses and time than a fucking pop can.

It's not just a can of pop! Apart from taking away from my excitement for the CD release, I also felt cheated to have purchased Dr Pepper soda worth $120 that same day (Nov 22nd) thinking that they sincerely support and celebrate the CD release and will make honest efforts to reward EVERY American for it and thus contribute to the promotion and celebrations.

These kinds of statements don't make you look very intelligent.   

yes, lets sue the lead singer of our favorite band because  ???

try not to be a clown.  :yes:

 ::) at you not being able to read between the lines and see what this is really about.  Let me break it down, hopefully you can follow

-Dr. Pepper used Axl/Gnr's name to drum up free publicity, with a promise they clearly didn't think they would have to fulfill
-Dr. Pepper's botched attempt to "fulfill" the promise made Axl and GnR look bad because they were associated with it, even though they were never involved and Dr. Pepper never obtained their permission

You are not allowed to use someone else's likeness or image to promote your product without their permission.  That said, GnR had no problem with the promotion in and of itself.  But Dr. Pepper did a terrible job here and people associate the promotion with GnR whether they were actually involved or not. 

That is what this is about.  The botched promotion reflected poorly on GnR's name and image even though they never even obtained GnR's permission to use their name in the promotion.  They used Guns' and Axl's names and attached them to this promise.  They did not deliver on the promise.  So GnR is saying that they should apologize and do a better job of fulfilling the promise, or deal with the consequences of attaching their name to what turned out to be a crappy, half-assed promotion that was terribly executed.  That's what this is really about.
 
If you can't read between the lines of lawyer-speak then I'm sorry

Probably because that would be stupid, just like your comparison of someone not being able to show up for a concert to a false marketing campaign.  Do you really need it spelt out for you?  Or do you just like talking trash (cause I sure do)?

Where did Dr.Pepper say that Axl/GNR are in charge of giving out the free pop? Did they use  the GNR logo somewhere during this promotion?

You can't sue artists for canceling shows due to legit reasons since such reasons can always be found and evidence presented. It is then up to the fans to believe what they want to believe and feel how they want to feel. And that's what separates the true fans from the psycho ones.
You always get refunded when shows are cancelled. Did Dr Pepper refund EVERY American for not delivering on a promise?

They used the names Axl Rose, Guns N' Roses, and Chinese Democracy without permission to promote their product.  That in and of itself is illegal

Maybe you're having problems understanding what this is about?

Nobody is suing. It's an open letter to the Dr Pepper people.

Do you get that?


Or maybe you're just not wanting to get it because it's another reason for you to attack Axl. If that's the case..... I'll be more than happy to show you the fucking door.




/jarmo

No thanks I was banned once. My question was in the letter it says that Chinese Democracy's release was ruined for some people due to this and I was trying to get a sense of how a free can of pop could ruin a day most of us have waited ten years for.

when someone doesn't deliver on the promise that they spent months promoting
and basically dropping the gnr name every instance they can (gnr also used the dr pepper name a few times aswell)
then thats when lawyers get involved.

Well, let me try to explain it to you.

It's called a promise.

They promised all Americans (except two) a free soda and then what did they do?


It doesn't say it ruined the day, the word is in quotes. It's a way of explaining.


Would you be surprised if people felt a bit like "oh, great, how typical of them to fuck up?  ::) "?

They used the GN'R name and then when GN'R delivered..... Well you saw it.



/jarmo

didn't they exclude that guy that leaked the songs as well?

i guess thats beside the point.

but fair play to axl/gnr for doing this. you make a promise using someone elses brand along with your own if you fuck up then people will be looking at both brands not just the one who made the promise.

Hold on a second

U bought 120 dollars worth of Dr Pepper just because of their campaign? :o :o :o :o

I hope he books himself into hospital if hes going to drink all that sugary syrup crap

that stuff is bad for your liver

haha there are worse things, its just soda. we all gonna die one day, may as well have fun.

and well dr pepper should have known that many people would come to their site. oh well.

one question, if someone makes a promise, its like a contract?
or dr.pepper could say "well we dont give a fuck about what we said, we dont want to give the sodas"?  i know they wont said that, but they could?

so why didnt Guns' genius managers cooperate in the beginning with dr pepper to ensure their image doesnt get dragged through the mud?

is a promise in print a contract to deliver on said promise, in legal terms? if guns management had actually signed a deal with them or promoted in conjunction with them, they'd have a logical legal case...

wasn't there that web site that was from Dr.Pepper that had the great wall, and hidden song titles, like the blues, better, etc. linked to them?

Not sure what you're saying.  Cooperate in what way?  GnR allowed them to carry on the promotion because they thought that Dr. Pepper would deliver.  What more could (or should) they have done?  They only had two real options:  accept the promotion and go along with it under the assumption that Dr. Pepper would deliver on their promise, or set the legal team to work and put an end from the promotion

I think it's pretty obvious that option #2 wasn't even an option.  If people are bitching about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise, imagine what would've happened if GnR had sued them for illegally using their name to promote the product

I still find it fucking hilarious that people are actually crying about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise.  You people boggle my mind, I can't even comprehend it

if they're so upset that it plays badly on their name, they should have entered into an agreement which ensures it's followed through, and do something like put CD/ GnR star logo on Dr Pepper cans, you know, real promotion. there are plenty of ways the management could have made a contract to take advantage of the dr pepper thing, but they ASSUMED it would work out fine for them. Did the management ever try to ascertain or organize the soda distribution? no, then how can they complain about it? Did management complain about the supposed illegal use of GnRs name prior to a couple days after the album came out? no, so how can they complain about both A and B when they, by all appearances, made no effort to enter into a promotional agreement during the 6 month lead-up?

i wouldnt even really care so much about this, and i dont really care, but i find its ludicrous that not a single person in the GnR camp has put out an official or quasi-official statement regarding the most anticipated album release ever-their words-yet they can put out a statement about something in which they lost no money, their sales werent hurt (except on the ludicrous, childish notion that not getting a $.50 can of pop stopped people from buying the album), and no person with an above room temperature IQ would negatively associate the band with under the circumstances.

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

Can you tell me that you think not getting a free can of 50 cent pop prevented people from buying the album?

Dont know, dont care.   I'm just enjoying the new album.  This is really fucking stupid how some of you thrive on nothing but negativity.   If its not one thing, its another, but you will find something to whine about.

Who is whining? In case you didn't know by posting in the thread you chose to participate in the discussion, which is what message boards are for. Vancity has posted some valid points.

Well, CD hasn't even been out a week, so Axl still has plenty of time to do some promotion. i think we are all jumping the gun acting all doom and gloom like its all over with.


I was actually surprised back in March that Axl didn't do something about them using the GNR name etc. I guess he knew the CD was coming out so he figured he'd play a long and then give them the big fuck you.




To defend the people in here though against this. I do see their point of view also. U got the most anticipated album ever out right now, and instead of talking about it, u are talking about Dr Pepper. Talking about Dr Pepper takes too much of the focus off the important CD. Also, fans for some reason right or wrong tend to cringe when it comes to lawsuits.

just seems they'd be a little more involved with this release and would be organizing stuff which they could be doing and I hope they are.

Maybe, just maybe, the management didn't work on this because they had nothing to do with it? It all came from Dr Pepper.

And maybe Dr Pepper didn't want to make a "big deal" out of it by doing things like you suggested?

I bet it would cost them money to put the GN'R logo on their cans. Instead of having to pay for and advertise GN'R on their cans, they got lots of free advertising by media reporting about the story. Seems like a far better deal to me, looking from their point of view.



GN'R's management isn't, as far as I know, in the soda distributing business. So it makes very little sense for them to try to make sure the actual sodas are distributed to all Americans. That's Dr Pepper's job and they failed. And that's why they got a letter from GN'R's attorney.





/jarmo

well with all this shit going on they're getting even more free publicicty. i looked in the paper and theres a story in there i think on page 3 or 4 i don't know my Grandmother found it before i did, i just skimmed it encase it said anything different from what i've read on here and on other places.

i don't think they'll go to court, i smell an out of court settlement coming. Yet another fight that will never happen and that will end up as a punch line on VH1 ::)

AMEN  : ok:

I think that people are under the misconseption that this is about a 20 oz. bottle of soda. For most of us (who are upset) it isn't about the bottle of soda but the feeling of being cheated. I'm not really one to participate in coupons or promotions, but due to my invested interest in the matter I thought it would be a good idea to participate. I was enjoying the release of CD last Sunday and thought why not go redeem my free Dr. Pepper since I was at my computer and had nothing better to do. When I got there and tried entering my information the site kept freezing, this went on for about a half hour before I gave up. So I mean did it ruin my day? No not by any means, and I think the lawyers are fully aware of that, but thats a lawyers job to exaggerate the circumstance in their clients favor. That said I was left with the feeling of 'what the fuck?' after the whole ordeal, and I'm glad to see someone taking action. So don't get hung up on the idea that someones day was actually ruined, thats not the point, the point is people thought this would be a cool thing to participate in and instead they were tricked into believing Dr. Pepper would make good on their promise.

From MTV...

Let me get this straight. Dr Pepper lays down the gauntlet for Axl Rose and dares him to release Chinese Democracy this year by promising to give everyone in America a free soda if the reclusive rocker can finally pull the trigger on the mythological unicorn of an album. So Axl delivers and ? Dr Pepper doesn?t? Nice work, soda jerk.

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/12/01/guns-n-roses-blast-dr-pepper-over-flubbed-chinese-democracy-promotion/

Dr Pepper were piggybacking Axl and the band for a bit of publicity. They should have done what they promised when they made the claim in the first place.

I have to say I agree with Axl's stance, I would probably have done the same!

For the people that are asking why GNR management didn't get involved before the screw up by Dr. Pepper:  You must not have read to the first few pages of this thread, an explanation was already posted.

From Advertising Age who has covered the campaign...


"In this age for Dr Pepper to try to associate themselves with a band with no contract or agreement is not just bad communications, it's bad business," said Robbie Vorhaus, a crisis-management consultant. "The right thing to do is to say 'We were wrong, we were sorry and this is how we are going to make good.'"

And in a manner of speaking that is what Mr. Rose and his band are demanding it do.

http://adage.com/article?article_id=132925

Video: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2008/12/02/wynter.axl.rose.vs.dr.pepper.cnn

I should mention CNN briefly interviews Axl's attorney in this video.

Also, a link to the written article: http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/02/gunsnroses.soda/index.html

We just want the coupon for a collector's item, wasn't going to cash it in.

Well, maybe it would have been smarter to actually promote the album by doing some form of interview rather than suing Dr. Pepper. He's all right in his case, but one thing at the time.

You said it. For all their screw-ups, Dr Pepper have done more to publicize this album's release than Axl has in the last few months.

yea i mean 2 get the coupon and just turn it in for 1 Dr. Pepper is rediculous
and yea how has Axl been getting the word out 2 everyone sides those comers about it on stations like comedy central like at midnight

Yeah its Axl's fault  ! yeah its his fault that Dr Pepper screwed alot of people by having some rink a dink server that crashed when they promised EVERYONE IN AMERICA a free soda if Chinese Democracy came out.  Its Axl's fault, that Dr Pepper was in for themselves and wanted free promotion using the GnR name and Axl's status.  It's Axl's fault when he's looking out for the fans, who couldn't get on the website, and when phoned in got a shitty 1 per house hold coupon.


Axl's looking out for his fan's, oh when he does that I see.  AXL RATHER GO AFTER DR PEPPER THAN PROMOTE HIS ALBUM ! BLAH BLAH

some of you call yourself fans ?  :rofl:


Go listen to Hinder if you don't like the way Axl does  things.

ummm...

I think I speak for most everyone on this board when I say that we are on Axl's and GNR's side.  But, that doesn't mean we can't make an objective argument.  In this case, Axl is in the wrong.  Plain and simple.

axl isn't wrong at all because this company used the GNR name and tried to mock GNR and it bit them in the ass.

Axl wants them to own up to their shit


Now the lack of promotion from Axl is a different story but the Dr Pepper thing he is in the right.

What Dr Pepper did is really bad business.  You cannot use someone's name and status, then go off and rip the american people off by not preparing for people to redeem their coupon. 

- Makes Axl and Guns N' Roses look bad
- Use the name and likeness of someone consent.  GnR tried to workout a better deal, but Dr Pepper wanted to be the big winner ! ( free promotion for them.)
- Fans like me who had to wait till about 11pm sunday pacific time to enter my info in for a coupon. I tried monday just to see if It was better and it WAS NOT.
- This isn't a lawsuit ! all GnR wants is apology and their fan's to get a free Dr Pepper ! and want Dr Pepper to live up to their promise.

Take business class you'll see it from a diffrent prospective.

A lot of people probably wouldn't even be aware that Chinese Democracy is in stores now if it wasn't for the free Dr. Pepper promise. That was a really cool and original bit of promotion for GNR to have.

However, we all know that the only reason Dr. Pepper promised such a thing to begin with was because they didn't believe the album would see the light of day this year. And once the album was released, Dr. Pepper was totally unprepared to fulfill their promise. I'm still not sure if my information went through or not due to all the traffic on the website.

So even though Dr. Pepper did a cool thing to help promote the album and give a shout-out to GNR, they ended up shitting on their promise. I could care less about a free Dr. Pepper. Like most of you, I just wanted it as a collector's item, because of what it stands for.

well dr. pepper did not do a damn thing to help promote the album when it was released

Pomoting the album was their job . giving free pop was. and on that count the did bad.

a can for a household and not for everyone in america??
they broke their campaign promise. :no: isn't dr pepper supposed to be a reputable big company?

disappointed

Exactly! even Guns N Roses offered to workout a deal where it would of been easier to redeem your free Dr Pepper.  I guess Dr Pepper just wanted to use  the name Chinese Democracy and GnR to play with the big boys of Pepsi and Coke.  If I was the head of Dr Pepper I would be really really embrassed on how this turned out.

Basically if my 79 year old grandma was guranteed a free Dr Pepper ! everyone in America right ! Dr Pepper. 

What could of been done ?

- Gnr and Dr Pepper workout out a deal, where a free coupon would be included with the purchase of the CD.
- Show your proof of purchase of Chinese Democracy to anywhere Dr Pepper is sold.
- Set up a decent server
- a promotion code entered into the website with a expiration of a year.

numerous of things Dr Pepper could of done LEGALLY ! but nope DR PEPPER was all about DR PEPPER instead of the fan's.

I was just over at CNN.com, and on the right of the page they have the most viewed stories.

Number 1? GnR. If you want proof that they're the biggest thing in the world right now, that should give you a hint.

Album sales will pick up. Controversy creates cash, as the saying goes.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/02/gunsnroses.soda/index.html

Saw this earlier. Cool stuff. 8)
Even with no promo GN'R are getting the top stories!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/js/2.0/video/evp/module.js?loc=dom&vid=/video/showbiz/2008/12/02/wynter.axl.rose.vs.dr.pepper.cnn (http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/js/2.0/video/evp/module.js?loc=dom&vid=/video/showbiz/2008/12/02/wynter.axl.rose.vs.dr.pepper.cnn)

Its not that Axls wrong for goin after Dr. Peper i think everyone here agrees with that sept this guy but that he didnt promote his album enough thats all i have 2 say bout that peace :peace:

maybe if the fans all unite for a boycott of dr. pepper, we can cost them so much money that they'll have to apologize to axl.

yes they lost the confidence.

A statement from Dr Pepper reads, "We are disappointed that GN'R's lawyers are turning a fun giveaway into a legal dispute. We simply commented on the delayed release of Chinese Democracy and openly encouraged the band to release it before the end of the year. Axl (Rose, frontman) even expressed support for our efforts earlier in the year. This was one of the largest responses we have ever received for a giveaway, and we're happy we were able to satisfy the thirst of so many Dr Pepper fans. We wish Guns N' Roses the best with their album."

 :hihi: in resume "fuck off, we are not going to give more free dr.pepper."

Yeah, that sounds right. But at the same time, you used the giveaway to promote your drink at Guns' expense, and you almost completely failed to deliver on the deal.

But I do love Dr. Pepper...

That sums it up :rant: even though there server was just the bigest pice of crap iv ever seen cus they know they just used GNR to get a ton of people to go on there websight so they can go FUCK THEMSELFS  :rant:

Setting up a server for that kind of event is VERY hard.

The company behind it doesn't want it to overload, but they don't really want to charge Dr. Pepper for excessive bandwidth amount, which probably isn't cheap.

They probably just got surprised by the amount of traffic they got, but I do still think they should apologize.

A lot of people simply can't pass up something because it's free.  I know several people who openly admit to not even liking Dr. Pepper but still tried to hop on the site and claim the free soda.

They should have just extended the date to the end of the year.

Well I have never been a fan of Dr Pepper, I am certain that now I know why, is it a big deal to me, not really, but I do believe they should be held accountable for leading a promotion they had really no intent of following through with, GNR did not give them the right to use the band or its upcoming release to promote publicity for themselves, as if the world doesn't already no DR PEPPER exists, I say shame on them.  In the end, it is sad as it was a part of the GNR promotion, and we the American fans looked forward to this with our release of Chinese Democracy, they took away our Bonus, and worse than that, they broke a promise to alot of Americans, who at this time in our lives are glad to get anything at all for free, I say Axl and Dr Pepper should "Get in the ring" :rant:

Of course they will!

Besides, for GN'R fans, the soda is somewhat special....

It's the one that proves that Axl made it and Dr Pepper had to live up to their promise.





/jarmo

hey jarmo, what's happening with the lawsuit?  had dr. pepper caved in yet?  i haven't heard an update.

It's not a lawsuit. It was an open letter!



/jarmo

Okay, lets just settle this. 

Dr. Pepper agrees to sponsor the GNR tour in the states and everyone is welcome to come and enjoy the music. 

(No, not for free.)

what? does gnr agree to that?

They knew exactly how much trafic they were going 2 get and that was the point they put up the shity server so no 1 could get through the forum part and get there free Dr. Pepper :rant:
[/quote]

I agree with the last guy they were in it 4 themselfs cus they know everyone almost dosnt like the Dr but love Pepsi it was just to get the name out saying hay were still here :rant:

and jarmo what do u think bout all this

guess jarmo knew that.

silly me trusted dr pepper. thought they were honest fans. they betrayed my confidence.

apparently axls as well. and most importantly dr pepper fans.

yea they have 2 do something 2 make up 4 it

Yeah I say they sponsor a one off show for Gnr and the fans.  Kind of like a accoustic show ala... 06

kool

I was one of the few people who was able to register online on the 23rd.

I'm glad I was only planning on saving the coupon as a souvenir because I think it'll probably be expired before I actually receive it.  :hihi:

do they? then I suppose it will restore confidence in the beverage company again.

Great point, but I didn't say that.

makane did.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=54834.msg1142497#msg1142497 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=54834.msg1142497#msg1142497)

so has anyone actually received there dr pepper yet?

o sory bout that makane

It said on the home page that day that it would be mailed to u in like 4-6 weeks i think

I got a phone call today from Dr. Pepper asking "using a 5 point scale, rate your overall satisfaction with the most recent service you received from Dr. Pepper consumer relations."

It's probably a good thing that they got the answering machine.  :hihi:

Nice i wish they had the balls to talk with one of there reps that would be great for a utube vid

I GOT MY COUPON TODAY!!!   :yes:

It does NOT mention GNR at all.  :no:

Not that I plan on redeeming it but just so youze know, it expires 2/28/2009



by-the-by:  it says on the paper above the coupon in big red letters ....

THE DR
DELIVERS
OUR PROMISE

REMEMBER TO DRINK IT SLOW.

^^They show the mailer/coupon in this article...

Stereogum Gets Its Free Dr. Pepper

http://stereogum.com/archives/axl-answers-more-questions-stereogum-gets-its-free_041601.html

Yea right if they were good about there promise we wouldnt be discusing this

I got mine yesterday.

Wow. The nerve. :no:

i got my coupon today-i went online about 3-4 minutes after midnight on the 23rd :hihi:

I got mine in the mail today.

Nope still waiting for mine ! what does it look like ?

Ugh!  Guess this means that I will actually have to go through all the junk mail piled up on the counter, huh?  I wasn't expecting it so soon.  I might have gotten mine and just don't know it.  ha

In the fine print companies are so fond of using, it should say "to those who were able to register."

lol so true my friend

Just got mine yesterday

I got mine a couple days ago.  Yeah, no GNR mention...oh well, guess I'll cash it in.

Got mine yesterday as well.

Free Dr. Pepper! Thanks Axl!

that'll teach those soda jerks to mock the greatest album in a decade! : ok: