Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I bought the vinyl and the Cd.  I know nothing about vinyls records and record players.  Does anyone know where to get a good record player for a good price.  How much do they cost?  Is it worth getting and can you the tell the difference?

should have asked someone at Best Buy that question...they have a wide selection of them. some are USB and can be plugged into your PC, others can connect to a stereo system.

some say that LP's are much better than CD's due to something with the compression, I myself have not tried the record yet so, that remains to be seen.

Its the stylus and cartridge that determines if you can tell the difference sound wise. Professional turntables mostly aimed at djs and are very robust and powerful, to withstand mixing, scratching and loud vibrations are quite expensive. They also come with a huge market of stylus and cartriges which also vary in expensive and even the basic professional stylus will be superior to what you would get on a standard household record player. Standard household record players are limited usually to the brand cartriges that come with the player.

A stylus, is the needle. A cartrige is what the needle is attatched to, its like the head at the end of the arm that you lift up and put on the record. (excuse my drunken spelling)

Its not worth worrying about for what you are looking for, the differences in sound will be minimal.

If you find a record player that you like the look of and can afford it, then go for it.

I would try and take a listen somehow before you go out and buy a turntable.  Not everyone's ear is the same. Some people can't tell the difference between MP3 and CD, and many will also not notice a difference between vinyl and LP.   It will even come down to the actual album you are listening to as well.  Some albums could sound better on vinyl, some you won't notice any difference.  Like many things, it will come down to personal preference.   For instance, I think Chin Dem sounds much better on vinyl, so it is a great album to jump into vinyl.   On the flipside, many people won't notice a difference.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7367324&type=product&id=1122653506956


This is what I picked up about a year ago. Cheap, works good.

^ I did not know they had those...cool as shit!

It's crazy reading this, when I was a kid that's what we had.  Singles were on 45's which is size of disc and the albums were played on a 33" disc.  You had to put a little piece onto the middle of record player to allow 45 to fit in to place, the album itself had small hole in center as you see if you bought a vinal. It's wierd now so obsolete.

Yup.

Thanks! Ill pick that one up!

Why on earth would you want to buy the album on vinyl, then buy a record player that converts the album to mp3?  :confused:


Here's what I have, well I have 2, from my dj days -  Technics SL 1210

The king of turntubles for 25 years, only recently been given a slight revamp with the mrk 5 model.


http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/content/vinyl01.html

There is a similar turn table is on sale at...wait for it, in it's randomness:

Bed, Bath, and Beyond

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=15875453

I have no earthly clue as to it's quality....but I know about it because my MOM asked for it for Christmas.

:)

Well actually, I picked it up for my father, who loved that feature because then he could convert all his old weird vinyls that I can't find anywhere. So that's why.

Fair enough  :) I wasnt directing my comment at anyone in particular, just taken aback with the number of people buying the vinyl for the better sound quality, then playing it back through their computers.

I'm a vinyl buff :-\

The turntable I linked to will be hooked up to both....her stereo system (via RCA line out on the turntable) AND her PC via usb

Because you can't carry a record player with you in your car....or, rather, you probably can, but it wouldn't be very practical once you'd designed the stabilization system, wired it into you stereo, and figured out some way of changing discs and sides while moving (and not scratching your vinyl), all WITHOUT loading a custom Rockola into your trunk...and she has a LOT of old vinyl you just can't find anywhere, anymore.  Old christmas albums, old groups that most people have never heard of before, lots of stuff you just can't buy on CD.  So she can now take all that old stuff and both LISTEN to it at home, AND make it more portable (via CD or mp3).  Best of both worlds.  Sure, you might lose the "vinyl" sound to get "portable", but that's secondary (for her) to losing the ability to listen to it AT ALL.

She never owned a stellar turn table, so I suspect the ION that's being bandied around will work just fine for her.  I have a vinyl copy of CD, which I bought to frame (rather than play), but I may give it a spin, at some point...just to do it.

Who's on their high horse now?

I understand the function and many uses of usb adaptable turntable, I own one myself and its been very useful for putting some rare records onto a more readily accessible format.

Mine doesnt allow playback through, its usb only and I mistook the ones above for converting only, hence being a waste of time for looking for the vinyl experience.

Hey, question for a vinyl buff.  I recently purchased two Klipsch power subwoofers (just for CD believe it or not), and now I am getting major feedback from my turntable when I turn the volume up.  I think the stylus is picking up on the vibrations or something.  I looked up online how to resolved this, and everthing seems to mention"suspending" the turntable, but that is just not feasable for me.  any suggestions?

I dont think vibrations wont give you feedback, it would just make the needle skip

Is there a little wire on the back of your turntable to earth the turntable?

Have you tried conecting the turntable through a different channel?

Did the turntable work ok at a high volume before connecting up your subwoofers?

What kind of turntable is it?

Have you tried moving the subwoofers or turntable somewhere different, couldnt be a clash of magnets between electronic equipment?

Do those subwoofers have an internal amplifier? Sometimes 2 amplifiers competing can mess the sound output up.

Are the wires connecting the cartrige and stylus firmly in place?


Sitting the turntable on a polystyrene sheet or putting wide polystyrene blocks under the the feet of the turntable helps absorb vibrations.
When my friends and I started out we used to use community halls and gym halls for our events and discovered standard gym matts were amazing for absorbing vibrations. Mabye try putting something rubbery or foamy underneath, its just as effective as suspending the turntable.

My reciever does not have a phono input, so I had to go with a model that had its own pre-amp built in, and therefor no ground cable. I know this is not the most prefered method but it difficult to find a reciever now a days with a phono input.  I may return the turntable and look into purchasing a separate pre-amp and then find a TT with the proper ground wire.   I will try the turntable on a different input tonight, and will see if I can't find something to put under it to help with the vibrations.  I have a Sony turntable, which is considered entry level but did get good reviews, so that might have something to do with it too.   I do not have the constant "hum" that is consistent with grounding issues, but rather just intermitent low frequency hum that comes from the subwoofers, sounding like feedback.

The turntable worked fine without the subwoofers, but at the same time the sytem did not put out those really low frequencies.  Both are powered subs, and neither are close to the TT.  My tower speakers however  are somewhat close to the TT, but that is the way it has to be due to room setup restrictions.  I have no issue with compact discs in regards to the subwoofers.   I prefer the sound of vinyl hands down to CD, but also love to "feel" my music, so the subwoofers are staying.  I may have to take a break from vinyl for a bit until I can afford a schamcy fancy TT, but from what I have been reading I don't even know if that will solve the problem either. 

Feedback is usually caused by electonic equipment being too close, being connected wrongly or  just not being compatible.

Its nothing to do with the how good the turntable is, it sounds like a decent one you have anyway.

What is the turntable connected to and what are the sub woofers connected to?

Does the turntable play without feedback, when the subwoofers are not connected? Can you use the sub woofers without the feedback, playing cds through that source?

I did not notice anything absent the subwoofers.    When I use CD's, it is crystal clear, no feedback or goofy noise, so it is not the woofers.  The woofers are connected via the recievers subwoofer pre-out with decent sheilded subwoofer cables. The TT was connected to the "Tape" input, but I am going to switch to another input this evening to see if that helps.   

It might very well do, I  have had similar problems and simply switching around the channels you connect it through often solves it.

I tried it and it did not work.  I can't help but think the stylus is picking up on something.  I have hardwood floors, and I notice when I moved one of my speakers with the TT was playing, I could hear it from the subwoofer.  Then I kind of stomped my foot a bit, and again, that would play through the subwoofer.   Weird.

wanna sell me one? :)

You should definently try and  insulate the turntable from vibrations then, if you have hardwood floor it will not absorb low frequencies causing vibrations.
If you get a thick towel and fold it up so the turntable sits snugly on it, you can see if it makes a difference to the noise your hearing. You can try sitting the subwoofers on something that will cushion the vibrations also. If this makes a difference then you know its vibrations causing it.
 Because of your hardwood floor, I would go over the top in cushioning both turntable and speakers in an experiment, then you can rule it out if it makes no difference at all.

If you look around on ebay you will find lots of second hand Technics 1200's and 1210's. 1200's are the silver original design, 1210's were the next design released in the 80's 90's, they are black, basically the same, just some little improvements . They are very robust and generally last forever when looked after properly.  You would be able to pick a good condition one up cheap as most people buy them in pairs, then get bored of trying to be a dj and sell them on, often individually.

I will try that.  One major thing I noticed when looking at other TT's last night.  Mine only weighs 6 pounds, and something like the 1200 weighs 20+ pounds......do you think that has anything to do with my TT picking up on something because it is so light?

Yeah, you will definently need to cushion it somehow, it might spoil the look of your set up but should make a difference. What about putting together a little shelve just for the turntable, fixed to the wall? You could have thick rubber washers between the shelf and the wall brackets to act like suspension.

The Technics weigh a tonne lol  ;D they are driven by a motor, a direct drive - rather than a belt drive and overall just built very very solidly.

I remember when I was about 8 or 9, my older brother and his friends were all into djing. My brother had borrowed  his friends 1200's and a box of records, they asked me to help carry all the gear back to this guys house about a mile away. I thought, fuck carrying that big box of records I'll take this record player instead  :no: Worst decision ever.

Do you know anything about stanton and or numark turntables?  I noticed guitar center has a bunch of those. 

Stanton have always made stylus, they are famous and long running brand for that, one of the very best. They branched out into the cheaper turntable market when bedroom djing became mega popular in the late 90's. I wounldnt bother with their turntables though, they havnt been in that side of things for long enough and are not a renowed electronic manufacturer. Its more like they sponsered a turntable with their famous name imo.
Numark traditionally made mixing equipment, very good brand, one of the best. The also started making turntables and cd turntables late in the game, but are traditionally a company that produces high quality electronic equipment, if you bought a numark mixer you knew no matter what price range it was in, it was quality.  I seem to remember there turntables getting good reviews when launched as well.
If I had to choose between Stanton and Numark, it would be Numark without a doubt.  Though it would be cold day in hell before I even considered buying a Numark stylus over a Stanton, if you get me, because thats Stantons market and imo make the best.

OK. So numark over stanton for the TT. But get a stanton stylus.

Another tid bit.  Belt drive vs direct drive.  Seems like direct drive is geared more toward DJ'ing, with belt drive being more for home audio.  Obviously, a decent direct drive TT will be better than a crappy belt drive TT.  What are you thoughts on this debate?

I think the Numark will come with a Stanton cartrige and stylus anyway, I dont think Numark would even bother to bring out a stylus, that market is governed by a few brands.

Belt drive will be cheaper and for playing records at home are absolutley fine.

The thing is when you are mixing and scratching, you have whats called a slipmatt which you put on the actual turntable wheel, this is just a thin felt mat for sitting the record on. When you scratch you move the record back and forth rapidly, the slipmat moves back and forth with you and the turntable isnt damaged.
Now when you touch a belt drive turntable it will slow down and it will also take a few moments to go back to the speed it was playing. A direct drive will also slow down but it is not as sensitive and will go back to the original speed much much faster. When you are mixing 2 records at once this is a very noticable and important difference. Also belts become slack with the kind of wear and tear bedroom djs put them through and can later in life begin to not hold the same speed as they used to. This is why pro turntables will always be direct drive, you dont get that problem. With the Technics you actually need to apply a little force to the wheel when mixing because its so powerful compared to a belt drive. On the other hand going back to belt drives when used to using Technics is incredibly difficult, you have lost that tender touch needed.

Beltdrives are absolutely fine for a bedroom dj starting out and are much cheaper, if you can learn to be very skillful on those then you will be learning the hard way and be much more talented for it.

For playing records at home for relaxing and listening to, belt drives are all you need..

If I wish to upgrade my stylus and cartridge....are they essentially one size fits all??

The cartridge is changable on a turntable, and stylus's are made to fit a certain type of cartridge. If you are going for the type of turntable above then most pro cartridges, i.e Stanton or Ortofon would fit the turntable. They just screw off easy peasy.

For the likes of your Sony you have just now, that will be probably restricted to the type Sony used in the first place, but worth googling to see if there are suitable alternitives.

Not at all.

You asked a question.  I gave you an explanation.

Easy test:  They're powered subs, right?  Connected via an RCA cable to an LFE port on your receiver?

Power one sub down, and play the album.  See what you get.

If you still get interference, power the other one down and see if you get interference.

Mix and match to see if it's a specific sub, both, or neither.

At the very least, that will help discern if it's a specific sub causing issues (could be connection, vibration..though I doubt it...or a host of other things) or something else..

Another suggestion:

Buy a "yoga mat" (or 2)...you can find them cheaply enough..cut it to size, and put it under the turn table.  You might need two layers.  I've insulated OTHER "vibration prone" stuff (not turntables, but I assume the principle would be the same) that way.

The yoga mats are quite a good idea, you can make them quite discreet and not spoil the look.

If the subs work fine playing cds, with none of that noise, I think the subs are set up and working correctly. The turntable works fine without the subs so thats ok.

CD's are read by a laser, strong sudden vibrations might cause it to skip, but constant low vibration wouldnt give out a constant sound.

 A record is read by the needle responding to tiny grooves and bumps in the record, as the record revolves this vibrates the needle. This is basically how it works, the stylus reads vibrations.

Resting your subs on a hardwood floor and having a very lightweight turntable will absolutely cause the stylus to pick up the vibrations, and these will be amplified and heard through the speakers. The stylus doesnt even have to be on the record for it to pick up vibrations, and these will be amplified.

Absolutely.  I hadn't gotten through the rest of the conversation when I posted that first suggestion.  If the subs are working fine with CD's, and you're in the environment described, the above conclusion is likely spot on.

The yoga mats work well because a) they're good at absorbing the vibrations with a relatively small "footprint" and b) they can be had in a variety of colors, etc (including black and navy) so they can be used where aesthetics comes into play.  Styrofoam (well, polystyrene foam sheets) works a bit better (again, I'm not talking turntables..but other equipment) at "subduing" the vibrations, but generally looks like crap and they aren't very durable (they can flake, over time, which is annoying).  The yoga mats have "done the job" well enough when I've used them in the past.  I don't know, exactly, how much vibration you're generating, but unless you're rattling fillings, I think the yoga mats will probably work quite well.

Thanks a bunch for the suggestions guys.  I went to guitar center today and checked out some turntables.  Of course they had the heralded Technics 1200, man that thing is a tank.  The best part of be going there was they had the rap music blasting in the turntable section, which allowed me to kind of "feel" the vibration if you will.  I put my hand on some of the cheaper TT's that had plastic bases (much like my now returned Sony) and you could feel the vibration on the TT.  Then I put my hand on the Technics 1200, a nicer Stanton, and a nicer Numark, and you could not even feel a thing because the bases are not flimsy plastic.  There was a Stanton there marked down from $500 to $250 that was very tankish like the 1200 that intrigued me.

I really think getting a yoga pad along with a TT that is made to withstand vibration should work perfectly.

I know there are some nice TT's made for home use like the Rega P1 and Project Debut III that can be had for a decent price and are considered more "audiophilish", but I can't help to think I will run into the same issues with one of those models.   I think I need a tank like the 1200. 

I also went to some thrift stores today in hopes someone "donated" an older 1200, but no such luck....I did pick up a Van Halen LP is perfect condition for a buck though!

I had a look at those, I wouldnt recommend them, there is no proper feet which act as suspension. The tone bar looks too rigidly attached to the base, no good for vibrations.

I reckon you would be best going for something more aimed at a dj, as these will have been designed to take vibrations into consideration, like the numark or the stanton. Have a look around dj equipment sites and they will have a whole range of turntables.

You could look around online for a 2nd hand pro turntables like Technics or Vestax. Look in community portals for your region where people sell and buy things, ebay and ad newspapers, you know those ones just for people to sell things.

Honestly, the amount of people who get dj equipment on a whim, then lose interest and sell barely used equipment on, its unbelievable.

You're talking about the Rega and the Project right? 

I have been looking at craigslist, ebay etc. There are a couple 1200s available for around $200 in my area, which much cheaper than new($450).  I am hesitant about ebay, because if they don't ship it correctly it could arrive in crappy shape.   

I haven't looked into Vestax, I will check those out tonight.

Yes the Rega and Project, they look too thin.

1200's or 1210's are fairly common on the 2nd hand market, if you find ones within travelling distance you can veiw them before buying and collect them yourself.

You could always look around for ex display as well.

Vestax are expensive as well unfortunately.

I set up the 1200mk5 today, and it took care of all the problems we've discussed, even sans the yoga mat (even thought i still plan on picking one up).  I am still monkeying with it, but it sounds great.  I will put a cartridge upgrade on my xmas list.

Don't go cheap on the turntable!

Awesome  : ok:

You should get some slipmats to complete the look, much kinder to your vinyl than the rubber mats that come as standard.

http://www.juno.co.uk/merchandise/slipmats/



All this talk of turntables has got me itching to start djing again  :beer:

I'm looking at picking that one up myself. Since the Pearl Jam fan club still sends out Vinyl Christmas singles, it seems like a good place to start collecting/playing them.

Record Player.

2 weeks and 40 posts. I was waiting on that one.

Tehn aaign, nbodoy ralely ntcoie tehse tgnihs. The mnid is a wdoenrful mancihe.