Here Today... Gone To Hell!

 An 8-year-old boy is charged with murder in the shooting of his father and another man in a rural community in eastern Arizona, authorities said Friday.

The boy was charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the death of his father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

Police arrived at the home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, Melnick said. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

The boy, who prosecutors say had never been in trouble before, initially denied involvement in the shooting but later confessed, Melnick said.

Police have not said what they think the boy's motive was.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

A judge determined at a hearing Friday that there was probable cause to believe the boy committed the killings. He is being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.

St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix.

How on Axl's green earth can an eight year old get his hands on a gun?

even unlock it, load it, aim and kill :no:

In my eyes, the person responsible for that gun should be tried as an accessory to murder and locked up for many, many years.  The kid obviously needs psych treatment.....he could have used better parents, such a shame.  :(

btw, I loved the line, "on Axl's green earth."  :hihi:

CONVICTING  THE  GUILTY

A  STRATEGY  MANUAL OF  LAW  AND  TECHNIQUE FOR
DEDICATED INVESTIGATORS AND PROSECUTORS
COMBATTING MAJOR CRIME

TRICKS, TRAPS AND HEADGAMES

Do not be ashamed to use tricks as long as they do not involve the administration of justice.  The courts will condone tricks but not "dirty tricks".  "Dirty tricks" are those which in the opinion of the court shock the community's conscience.  The leading Supreme Court of Canada case on this subject, R. v Rothman (1981) 59 C.C.C.(2d) 30 (S.C.C.) has this to say about permissible tricks :

"It must also be borne in mind that the investigation of crime and the detection of criminals is not a game to be governed by the Marquess of Queensbury rules.  The authorities, in dealing with shrewd and often sophisticated criminals, must sometimes of necessity resort to tricks or other forms of deceit and should not be hampered in their work.  What should be repressed vigorously is conduct on their part that shocks the community.  That a police officer pretend to be a chaplain and hear a suspect's confession is conduct that shocks the community; so is pretending to be the duty legal aid lawyer eliciting in that way incriminating statements from suspects or accused; injecting pentothal into a diabetic suspect pretending it is his community; but generally speaking, pretending to be a hard drug addict to break a drug ring would not shock the community; nor would, as in this case, pretending to be a truck driver to secure the conviction of a trafficker, in fact, what would shock the community would be preventing the police from resorting to such a trick."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what say thee? Is this a dirty trick? Intimidating an 8 year old?

Far as I'm concerned somebody got what was coming.

I would have to agree with you.  My home owns many as my husband is a collector, every piece we own are faithfully locked up in a huge 2500lb safe, out of sight, out of mind.  Ammo is kept in a seperate smaller size safe, not even close to firearm area.  Firearms are never taken out  to be viewed by an onlooker, in fact rule here is the subject of owning them is not brought up period, end of discussion. These were guidelines set between myself and my husband when collecting became an interest to him.  I myself am deathly afraid them, so for me to allow them even in my home with my two children, those have been the guidelines set in stone, and yes they have been sucessful!!  People with firearms need to go to extreme when it comes to the safety of owning one, never underestimate the what could, it can and does happen every day in our world, its pathetic.  Are the laws set for owning a firearm strict enough?

I really have to try to understand here how an 8 year old can premeditate murder?  Something had to be seriously wrong in this household.

Sadly there are probably two steps in there that he didn't have to perform (unlock, and load). While I believe in a right to own guns in the US, there are too many people who are lazy and don't practice the proper safety.

I would have to assume it was his fathers gun... I bet where ever he is now, he wishes that gun was locked up.

Amen COma.

Msaxl, great points.  It's too bad more gunowners aren't as responsible as you and your husband.  :beer:

Maybe the kid was being abused or something.  or maybe his mom killed them and he knew about it and wants to take the blame for her.

who knows.  very disturbing/weird story though.

They are looking into the abuse aspect now.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG_nB7rdOr3TiaL5ph3YDR5qNNTAD94ATRLG0

I think we all know who's to blame here and that's Grand Theft Auto IV ::).

oh jesus. i swear if they blame a game or a movie, thats just so lame.

U are aware this occured in Arizona, and more broadly, America?

I recall a Birmingham incident where a 5 year old shot her 18 month old brother in the head.
Luckily the UK have the strictest gun regulation in the world.

You hear about incidents, a lot, where a little kid is playing with a gun and someone is accidently shot and killed.  That's sad enough.  This situation is just weird.  I can believe that an 8 yr old could get ahold of a gun.  I find it appalling that an 8 yr old not only got ahold of a gun, but apparently was able to aim to kill, which is what sounds like happened.  That's just horrible.  And, yes, it happened in the good old US of A.   

Well, aiming isn't so hard.  Boys are taught to learn how to aim things right after they graduate from Huggies and Luvs.

We're not always successful, but we try.

its the seats fault really, its too big and i cant be arsed to lift it up.  ;) :hihi:

  As opposed to other 8 year boys, who already have a huge history with the police by tht age...

Shame we aint so good with knives.

Crime over here is certainly getting alot more Americanised with gangs, shootings and stabbings becoming more frequent.

Perhaps the states can have a go at rivaling our teenage mothers rate.

I think that you missed his point...

They meant trouble as in School trouble. fights, detentions etc.

There is a huge difference, in accidentally shooting your buddy and fucking planning and executing two murders.

My only question is.

How FUCKING DUMB do u have to be, to be the 2nd person shot?

U see an 8 year old with a gun shoot one dude, u think u would get the fuck out of dodge before he had a chance to shoot u also.

If my memory serves me correctly, Mr. Burns got shot by lil' Magie Simpson.  It could happen to anybody really.  :D
Listen, I'm sure statistics are there to show that having loaded firearms in the house keeps the people in that house much saf......oops, no.  No they don't.  ;)

sure people accidentally shoot themselves and others, but what kind of sick twisted 8 year old, says, I am gonna get that gun and shoot these motherfuckers.

It just doesn't happen in that way.

Now it does.

Hail the novus ordos, it truly is a hit.

Edit: Why wait.

The point I was trying to make previously is that there is no link of significance between the amount of firearms a nation possesses and the crimes they are used in. At the moment the top 5 gun holding countries per capita are US, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Switzerland. 4 of those countries are some of the most peaceful on earth. Although Finland is arguably catching up.

The real link is culture. Mega nations with an all encompassing government and corporate influence. An atmosphere of loneliness and frustration of being forced to be part of something that doesn't correspond to you.

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

The solution to this, they say, is to take away all our guns so that we can be liberated from all this '"out of nowhere, not related to anything but the existence of a gun" hate. It's a great idea. The criminals surely won't know how to get a gun illegally. And people will definitely not resort to other mediums such as knives to carry out their "out of nowhere" quest for destruction.

The fact that the only ones left with guns will be criminals and the government is of no consequence at all. Hell, that's nutty talk these days.

I haven't watched this story as closely as I would like.  But I have an opinion on it, and here it is.

I have a 9 yr old daughter, and so know quite a few kids in this age range.  I'm also sorta a kid person.  If there is a kid around, they almost always gravitate to me.  My ex called me a kid magnent :hihi:

My opinion is based on the kids I have known and the kid I once was.  Kids of this age often have very intense tempers.  They will lash out hard and fast at the smallest of indescretions.  My daughter has told me she hates me over and over because I want her to take a shower.  She will throw things around and slam her feet as she walks away from me.

After about 1/2 hour of TV or pouting, or whatever, she's fine and she loves me again.

My feeling is that this kid got pissed off about something (I'm sure more then the dad wanting him to take a shower, but you know) He knew where there was a gun and he went and used it.  The first one probably scared the fuck out of him and in his fear/terror (or maybe even excitement) he went and did it again.

Unfortunately, killing someone doesn't end. That person is dead.  That person is not going to get up and give you a hug and tell you it's ok.  That's when he went to the neighbor and said that he believed his father was dead.

I am probably completely 100% wrong on this, but my imagination can see it happening.  I'll say another thing too.  I remember pointing a real rifle at another kid when I was this age. It was not loaded, but the kid was making me angry and I wanted him out of the house.  I swore up and and down that it didn't happen later on, when the adults all got upset about it.  But it actually did happen.  I don't think I would have pulled the trigger if it were loaded, at least I remember thinking that I was just joking around at the time.

Scary shit. Especially since there's a boy that is apparently in love with my daughter right now.  He's 11 and goes hunting with his dad. He's not happy because my daughter is not wanting to be a girlfriend right now.  This story literally makes my blood run cold   :nervous: