Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Axl does not need to answer to anyone. Great art speaks for itself. If Axl wants to share information with us, it is his choice, and his choice only.

For me, it isnt even so much his take on the old band.

Id like to know what he did for those years. just his routines, what he'd do everyday and all that.

I really don't think it would do much good. People love to hate Axl Rose. He made it quite easy for people to love to hate him. It was through some of his own actions like last minute cancellations,walking off stage mid concert, not showing up, etc.... He painted that picture himself so to speak. He's already pretty much given his side of the story without going into the nitty gritty of it all:

Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There?d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn?t out of opinion that Slash would go ?hey it doesn?t work?, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ?Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can?t do that.? People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we?d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It?s not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say ?Well Axl, you?re after control of the band too.? You?re damn skippy. That?s right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n? Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash?s ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that?s the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing?s free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea.?

What is this from?

and over 6 years later it would appear he meant every word he said.  : ok:

Be careful what you say please. Your post may get removed

that's odd, I wrote you a post last night that you never got back to me about...

I was apologetic in the post...

please get back with me on it.

Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There?d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn?t out of opinion that Slash would go ?hey it doesn?t work?, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ?Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can?t do that.? People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we?d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It?s not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say ?Well Axl, you?re after control of the band too.? You?re damn skippy. That?s right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n? Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash?s ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that?s the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing?s free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea.?

I am not going to say Axl is lying, but I am having a little trouble believing the part where he says that he wanted to a Slash type album and Slash was basically nixing everything.

I would think Axl will be doing some kind of press to push CD. Im sure someone will ask the questions we want to hear asked.

I dont think it would be in anyones better interest if Axl were to stay a "recluse" throughout all this hype and stuff to come.

He should to do some interviews, get out and talk to people. It would do wonders.

Instead of doing a regular interview type thing, it might be a cool idea that during the concerts that Axl tell the story behind the making of each song right before they play it.  He can pick a few songs each show and add a little bit more to the story each night or change up which song he wants to talk about.

that would be awesome for us die hard fans....i think the average fan would just wanna hear the music though.

Imagine somebody with the user name Hudson having "a little trouble" believing that.

You know where you can discuss your namesake.


History has proven Axl to be right.

In case you didn't notice.

Just because you like to just write songs and record it quickly, then release it, doesn't mean you're interested in working on something until it's great. Go look up what Rick Rubin told those guys.

My point is that Slash would most likely want to do the AFD type album, because it is the style he most comfortable with, rush the material as usual,  get it done, and move on. Whereas Axl would want to tweak the album to perfection before releasing it like he did with CD. I am not trying to pick sides believe it or not... but that part of the statement is kind of strange to me. ring out the best out of each other.

The reason Axl didn't do that type of album was because Slash wasn't interested in it. As Axl said. As soon as Axl thought there were things that could work, Slash lost interest.

Slash's friend Marc Canter said that Slash assumed Axl would ask him to return to GN'R. Well, guess he was wrong!

GN'R did the "stop gap" album thing in 1988 and 1993. GN'R Lies and "The Spaghetti Incident?" were basically just fun projects put out while they worked on the next album.

Imagine following "TSI?" up with the Snakepit album... 

I still find it hard to believe that Slash would not want to do an AFD type album, because his follow up material has been more similar to that style than the material on CD. That is why to me, it was Axl who was not interested in doing that type of album.

I may be wrong but I do not think Axl has ever said he wanted to do an AFD type album when working on CD. 

What I am trying to say is that Axl was probably adamant as to the type of album and music he wanted to make and was not willing to compromise even with Slash and the other members even if it meant that they would quit the band.

Snakepit was rushed, because there was no one including Axl challenging Slash to come up with better riffs or writing lyrics. I think if Slash and Axl worked together on some of the work on Snakepit there would have been a different result.

?Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else."

Maybe we are reading this differently, but my interpretation of this statement is... Axl wanted to make an album that would make Slash happy. But if that is the case why would Slash not want to stick around and work on an album with Axl if Axl is giving into Slash's concessions according to Axl. It does not make sense. I am not saying Axl is lying but there is some information missing here. Would you not agree with that?

Well, maybe it was like this:

Slash: Here, I got the songs for our next album.
Axl: Ok, we can do some of them and work a bit more on them.
Slash: No, all of them. They're done, no need for more work.
Axl: No, they need some work.
Slash: See you! I'm gonna record them myself!



/jarmo

why do you people even bother defending axl's actions. almost every single person that has come into any sort of contact with him has acknowledged hes a difficult person; you can love his music, but he's clearly a recluse-freak of some sort. You can't make an excuse for every single thing that has happened, it just becomes ridiculours.

From all indications and interviews we've read from Axl does he seem like the type of person who would suck slash's dick and say " hey yeah man maybe we can get together and be creative and work on each others ideas!!"

Can you honestly defend that without doubting it yourself? The man is clearly not good with other people. He does make great music tho... i don't think he's a liar, just a recluse, and I'd be interested still to hear his side of the whole story;

Well, maybe it was like this:

Slash: Here, I got the songs for our next album.
Axl: Ok, we can do some of them and work a bit more on them.
Slash: No, all of them. They're done, no need for more work.
Axl: No, they need some work.
Slash: See you! I'm gonna record them myself!

My point is not to point fingers at whos fault it was. I am sure that is not how it went down, considering everything you and I have both read. If it did go down like this I would be the first to say Slash was a dickhead. I think at the time Slash knew he would have to make compromises with Axl, I mean he had to sign over the rights to the band just to get Axl to go on stage. How much more compromising can he be?

I am inclined to believe that Axl had a vision of how the next record was going to sound and he felt that he would not compromise his vision regardles of the outcome.  I can appreciate Axl's position not to compromise his vision to a certain extent because I do believe he is a musical genius and i believe he can create extraordinary music. However, my opinion is he paid a huge price by having the former members quit/fired. Time will tell if it pays off. I believe when it is all said and done CD and this version of the band will be commercially succesful, but will always be compared to the former members and the critics will always favor the original. That is just my opinion, I could be wrong and again that is not a knock on the new band or new material because as I have said I think the material is great and the band is good. It will be the whole VH argument... Dave or Sammy? Origial vs. New?

I know he has spoken about things here and there, the press release in '02 touched on things and the Rock In Rio 01' show he talked about the old lineup and his feelings on that situation..
 I guess what I'm trying to get at is -imo- lots of people are pre-judging the material before its even heard,judging the band knowing nothing  about them.  People just dont know Axl's side of the story on many many things and Axl chooses to remain silent and keep band members silent. Axl is extremely press sensitive, he doesnt like any kind of criticism what-so-ever  and I think it bothers him alot. Somehow he needs to work on thickening his skin because this album is going to get the good, bad and the ugly reviews.
 I think a one on one sit down interview w/ Kurt Loder or any pro-axl interviewer would work in just getting his side of the story out on his journey making the record, his feelings on the old lineup leaving him. Maybe it wouldn't do any good at all but I think people should hear his side on things before they judge him and the album.

anyways my $ .02   
 :peace:

Slash presented 12 songs. Axl said he could do a few of them.

Slash took his songs and put out the Snakepit record.

Then quit the band thinking Axl's not gonna be able to make it without him.


That's hos Slash's friend Marc Canter recalled the events in an interview.



/jarmo

the way you tell that story makes slash look like a douchebag; why dont you read his (much more believeable) side to it in his autobiog.;

Slash presented axl with

As for "setting the record straight" about the old line up "leaving him" - I'd love to hear his version of the story.  His side of that is not going to set the record straight - just another side.  All sides are viable and part of the whole story.  No single one is the "right" version that will set it all straight.       

I don't givea fuck about that.   He ended up getting a better band out of it, why dwell on all that negative bullshit from the past?    Its all in the past now and I assume leave it there.   

The band that made and was GnR is no more.  What Axl is doing now is awesome.  Whatever happened in the past is just that - it's in the past.  I still think he'd do better for himself if he let that name go (because there's been way too many incarnations and reincarnations) and just came out with his music under a new name.  Because it's not the same.  Neither the music or the musicians.  Not even close to what was GnR.   

this is simply repeating the same argument some have made for YEARS.   I think its time to get over this hangup over the name.     2008 ya know?

this is simply repeating the same argument some have made for YEARS.   I think its time to get over this hangup over the name.     2008 ya know?

I was just responding to the original post, with what I think.  Some don't give a fuck, and that's ok.  Many do keep saying they want to hear Axl's version...and some think it will be the right version.  That's all I'm saying. 

Did he get a better band out of things?  Did he?  That's all a matter of opinion, too. 

It's difficult, for some, to leave all things in the past.  From what I've heard, so far, I think the songs are very good.  What bothers me, honestly, is that he still maintains the name Guns n' Roses.      :o

The band that made and was GnR is no more.  What Axl is doing now is awesome.  Whatever happened in the past is just that - it's in the past.  I still think he'd do better for himself if he let that name go (because there's been way too many incarnations and reincarnations) and just came out with his music under a new name.  Because it's not the same.  Neither the music or the musicians.  Not even close to what was GnR.  

I'm a casual fan of Pearl Jam but I do not go out of my way to find any information about them, but if Eddie Vedder went through numerous lineup changes ( which i think PJ has over the years) and worked on a album for many many years it would peak my interest in hearing it, but I dont know if I would be inclined to hunt any and all information about them. If I heard he was going to be doing a indepth interview that should answer alot of questions people may have  I think I would tune in

"... I think at the time Slash knew he would have to make compromises with Axl, I mean he had to sign over the rights to the band just to get Axl to go on stage. How much more compromising can he be?

It's difficult, for some, to leave all things in the past.  From what I've heard, so far, I think the songs are very good.  What bothers me, honestly, is that he still maintains the name Guns n' Roses.      :o

 It's just as GN'R as it was in 1986.

That statement is somewhat laughable but OK.....

Guns N' Roses is a great,great rock n' roll story that is missed because of misconceptions of axl rose. 17 years has passed since the illusion records and people have been all over the place in what is exactly going on with the band. members of the band dont speak or are afraid to make any comment that could come back and bite them in the ass and Axl does not go public with anything..

If your life/livelihood rested with a bunch of wastoid drug addicts, wouldn't you try to protect it?  I think a lot of Axl's fears/actions stem from Slash's overdose, and near death...remember Slash's indignation that all Axl had to say was "I though I was going to have to replace my guitar player" (or something to that effect).

The founding members of GN'R were Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Tracii Guns, and a bunch of other scrubs. None of the members of VR. Slash was a replacement, and he played that role well for the decade he was in the band. He's one of the best guitarists alive, sure... but the "SLASH = GN'R" argument is old, and obviously wrong. Anyone who's heard Velvet Revolver try to play GN'R tunes knows that's a fallacy.

Yeah, it is.  Because no matter what, there's only one person that's the same from then to now.  What he's doing now is great work, but the only thing remotely GnR about it is the name.  But, it's true, it's an old argument and it really doesn't matter.  Things are going to be the way they are going to be.

Yeah, it is.  Because no matter what, there's only one person that's the same from then to now.  What he's doing now is great work, but the only thing remotely GnR about it is the name.  But, it's true, it's an old argument and it really doesn't matter.  Things are going to be the way they are going to be. 

There were several different combinations of GNR until basically the Seattle tour, which I believe Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, & Steven agree was the point were they considered themselves an official band and officially GNR.

They were officially a band before that too.   They were an "official band" after that lineup.  And they are still an "official band".   That has never changed.

The day Axl sets the record straight, some of you will be upset.




/jarmo

You want to talk about bands that shouldn't be using their name anymore?

Look at LA Guns, the sister band of GN'R.

The only original member left is Tracii Guns, and there are not one, but TWO separate bands touring as LA Guns today.

GN'R never broke up... and Axl never fired the band... so you have to ask yourself when is the precise moment when GN'R stopped being GN'R.

Was it when Steven left?
Or Izzy?
Or Slash?
Or Matt?
Or Duff?
Or Buckethead?

GN'R is still the same puzzle, just with new pieces. When they play old GN'R songs, it sounds right. We can't say the same for Velvet Revolver, even with three ex-Gunners there.

I don't givea fuck about that.   He ended up getting a better band out of it, why dwell on all that negative bullshit from the past?    Its all in the past now and I assume leave it there.   

I really don't think it would do much good. People love to hate Axl Rose. He made it quite easy for people to love to hate him. It was through some of his own actions like last minute cancellations,walking off stage mid concert, not showing up, etc.... He painted that picture himself so to speak. He's already pretty much given his side of the story without going into the nitty gritty of it all:

Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There?d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn?t out of opinion that Slash would go ?hey it doesn?t work?, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ?Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can?t do that.? People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we?d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It?s not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say ?Well Axl, you?re after control of the band too.? You?re damn skippy. That?s right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n? Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash?s ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that?s the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing?s free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea.?

if anyone read slash's auobiography I think slash's lack of chemistry with whoever axl brought in to replace izzy was more of a contributing factor to him leaving than any perceived lack of wilingness to work with axl

A better band? Shit, you cannot even tell me who the guitar players are in the band right now.

Fact: old band released 5 albums and changed the world. Fact: New lineup released CD, while it is a great album, it is not near the level the other albums were as far as the public is concerned.

It is cool that you think the current lineup is better, but stop acting like GnR was founded in 2001. Like it or not, for eternity SLASH will be known as the guitar player was in GnR and was later replaced by better guitarists.

if Paul Tobias hadn't been there, there would be no TWAT, no Catcher, no IRS, and no Prostitute.   

I'll take those 4 songs over anything whats his name has done since leaving GnR in 1996.    So things worked out for the best.  : ok: