Here Today... Gone To Hell!

We've all heard stories about how much this album has cost everyone from the record company to the promoters, Axl and everyone involved and we know Axl made a new licensing deal for his share of the back catalog to keep the weels turning.

I'm wondering what all this means. Who makes money off this album, how much and when? How much does the record company make off of each copy of CD and how many copies must be sold for everyone to come out on top? Do you think the members have royalty contracts or not?

Can someone please try to break down and explain how all this works?

If one has spent $15 mill, wouldn't you need to sell more than 3 million copies to avoid red numbers?

And last: How many copies do you think CD will sell the first year?

theres other ways of recouping the 15 million dollars then just cd sales,
as rockband 2 + body of lies has proven...
So its NOT really important if they dont get the whole 15 million (which they wont) from the cd sales.

also a BESTBUY exclusive probably earned them some scratch...And now it's probably up to BESTBUY to promote..Which doesn't cost them that much since they already have a weekly circular..Wonder if BESTBUY will be a tour sponser..

I am sick as hell today, but I will try to give my point of view; well, first of all, it was never (and will never be confirmed) how much was spent on recording... there are many numbers floating around and it is no simple maths.

If we take simply and relatively 15m spent and than, I don't know, we also take this rumour that BB has bought 3m (lets say at 5$) it would come even. Everything sold elsewhere worldwide would be a profit, split in some way between band and record company.

There are numerous other things that management and record company might or might not take into the deal. If those 15m where spent to record 3 or 4 albums and record company has a promise that they will have a release material every year or 2 it is another pair of gloves.

I think the biggest profit to the band comes from touring and royalites of music played on different places and occasions. The biggest profit to record company comes out of record sales.

As I see Axl has decided to take more control of everything - producing, deal negotiation etc. and has surrounded himself with some experienced people I am pretty sure they have accomplished a great deal for everyone.

What's most important in my point of view is Axl's stability and will to deal with problems as they come along... there will be problems. There will be issues. I am pretty sure he has strength to fight them all now. As much as I love Robin (and even Brain) most important thing is that once the wheel starts rolling (in a month time) everything just rolls continuously ... with or without Robin or anyone else.

I am sure Axl had a hell of a time, before and after and especially after the 5th of March, but most of the things were beyond his control and there was no fucking way to get them solved... unfortunatley!

A whole lot! 

In this day & age of illegal downloading and pirating, it is a bit of a tall order.

Im sure alot of them (though not member problems) have been fought already; thats why the albums taken so long since recording

Is this really realistic? That they come out even only on this deal i mean? Like can it be true that BB actually payed $5 for every CD. I mean, one should think that they could have gotten them cheaper since they bought 3 million. Thats alot of records if they really bought that many.

And, doesn't it cost like $2 just to produce a single CD? And wouldn't the record company have to spend alot of cash just shipping these CD's and what about the racks and posters and all the shit that comes with a huge release like this?

I'm just curious about this whole deal and want to discuss it because well i'm intrigued by this whole ordeal. People also tell me that there is no way in hell the record company will make money off this think unless they'll recieve money from touring.

Thanks for your answer tho, the whole picture is a little clearer as of how this thing might actually work out for everyone.

Isn't it also pretty wild to think that CD will sell 3 million in the states in the first place? This whole thing has been talked about alot, but often as a joke. Is all publisity good publisety in this case?

Theis is so fuckin crazy and exciting! I can't fuckin' believe it's actually happening!

well as I said I was just over-simplifying things... it is huge and complex issue... and we have no confirmation of 15m or 3m at all ... also it was mentioned few times that BB earns money on other things not CD sales. they maybe paid even more than 5$. Look at it at the other way, as a single retailer and with some risk You can earn 15m if You sell all CD's (if the retail price is 10$), would You do it? I would...

But, it is not that simple, more of just an illustration ...

To profit?

They can profit, but it won't come on album sales alone.

Through license deals, touring, merch, and album sales, they can profit.

C.D. needs to sell at least 5-7 million for this to happen, then we can talk about profitting.

The main gross comes from album sales, and in today's world, sales are slipping.

So you think that the record company is doing this just to cut the losses? I mean, 5-7 million albums... Is that really possible?

Which album sold 5-7 million lately?

NIckelback sold 6 million i think

the eagles sold 7 million exlcusiveley through walmart

taylor swift sold 4 million

so it's possible

Overtime it will easily sell that, look how well oasis comeback record sold, and it not even that good of record.
"Don't Believe the Truth has sold more than 6 million copies worldwide"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Believe_the_Truth

Offset. That's where the money is. Chinese Democracy is not an album, its part of the marketing strategy to sell product by Guns N Roses.

To sell ?40-$100 concert tickets at 10-20-50,000 tickets a night : thats a gross of up to $5,000,000 for a nights work. 100 shows like that, and there's your profit.

To sell ?20-$30 concert T-shirts. To sell old records to new fans.

To sell live DVD's and CD's. To sell singles. To sell iTunes downloads and Rock Band and Geetar Hero files.

Chinese Democracy is just one part of this.

And don't forget what Axl has said in the past : this isn't just ONE album.

There will probably be a second album 18-24 months later. And maybe a third in 2012.

GNR will tour for quite a few years as a result, probably before vanishing into hibernation in 2012-2013 to work on an album that won't come out until at least 2015.

This isn't about one record : it's about a rebirth.

So you don't believe in a reunion in 09?  :hihi:

I see your point.

In the end the rumored $15 could be well spent money so to say.

I think the "when you'll see a profit" part is all relative to your role ... with the business people like the record company and best buy being the last to see the profits.

I would think that the band got paid up-front along with all the other people who worked on/contributed to CD over the years and that those with writing/performing credits will, by contract, see their royalties/profits instantly.     

these "15 million" should be spread on 3 records.. this album only needs to make up for 5 million and that's probably easy since they are 13.99 bucks a piece weren't they?

Agreed. If Guns release more than one album, there's a very good chance everybody involved gets their money. Hey, fortunately money-issue is not our headache, there are professionals who do the maths.

I don't think Axl is personally bankrupt if Chinese Democracy won't sell X million records.

Just think how much GnR got from Rockband to have a new GnR song never released, released first on their video game? I am sure that made some good money for GnR and also helped them advertise for free their new album.

i dont know why so many people are focused on "Chinese Democracy" recouping recording costs....I know the "Greatest Hits" album the label threw out there has probably recouped  a good portion of it....plus I doubt the label cares too much about this ONE record recouping what was spent...having GNR on the label for the next how ever many years im sure will generate more than enough money...


P.S with more and more artists releasing music on their own I dont think it would be in the best interest of the label to nitpick about what was spent on this record....major labels are a dying breed...i wouldnt be too concerned about it...

This is why u do an exclusive though. If Best Buy bought 3 million let's say. That's 3 million albums GNR will get money for regardless.

that is how u break even on CD and then the other two are pure profit.

Whatever anyone says or tells you, the record company have reaped good rewards from the recent GH release, and continue to reap income from previous albums.

Yeah but like any business, they won't count that towards CD because they planned on a GH anyway.

So for labels, they have to still consider CD in the Red and will do everything to make a profit.

That's very true, AFD and GH continue to be a top seller in the catalog charts.  But that does not answer the question. 

To make a profit, don't just look at CD sales, but also the increase in GNR alumb sales to to the big amount of hype with the release.

You'll get new fans buying the back catologue, merchandise and attending shows. There will be a dvd of live stuff, I'd think too, plus that ?15,000,000 will have in part paid for 2 more ablums worth of material, its the long game that will make the money back.

I thought they put out GH after Axl allegedly failed to deliver CD.
Whatever the reason 4 + million sold in the US alone was a nice benefit and with the Best Buy thing in the US they are guaranteed of a X amount of income which I'm sure will cover if not all the cost to make and promote CD and I'm sure in the rest of the world the sales will be quite large.

Merch and Shows are almost never a + for label...label may provide funds to promote a release - through tour/live shows, but live performances are all to the artist in most cases.  The label will get their ADVANCE back, since from what I am told (by a cab driving A&R man!  :hihi: ) not a dime goes to the artist until the advance is recouped...obviously my 'Taxi Driver' is small time, so GnR may have a different arrangement.

i agree with mysteron here.

seriously, if the record companies didnt see a financial reward in releasing the album, we probably wouldve seen axl eventually release it on either another large label or a smaller one that would properly push it.

Personally i agree with this. There's no way in hell this thing would happen if there were'nt any profit in sight. For all involved.

I'm still wondering about how this thing can be broken down and explained for the casual music listener who thinks this is just rediculous. I mean no one has ever used 13 15 mill on recording a record so i kind of see why people think this whole thing is crazy.

Another thing is that people don't believe it'll sell many million copies either. Even tho i believe it would, based on past sales and general interest in this monstrosety, i can't really back that up...

How many copies do you think it'll sell the first year?

You are far oversimplifying things. It's not as simple as Best Buy paying $5 an album, record company breaking even, and then the rest of the money earned being "split up by everyone".
Merchandise contracts, publishing rights and royalities, touring and video costs, etc.... It's not a simple formula, and it gets even more complicated when you consider how many people possibly get credited for writing material on the album. And with Axl owning the Gnr name, the royalties are even more skewed that ever.

My suggestion i,s don't worry about who is breaking even and who is losing money.
Best Buy will win big, beacause this CD is going to create a ton of foot traffic in their stores, and they've received a ton of media impressions already with this news. Gnr will be fine, and universal will be thrilled, as they'll finally be able to recoup some of the losses they've written off the past decade with recording and production costs.

Six.


As it turns out, all that bullshit about it costing $3 to $15 million to produce was all a bunch of rumors.

Axl recorded the whole thing in his basement on his eight track mixer for a cost of $15.

Actually, it's already made a profit. Best Buy bought three million copies for a minimum of $9.09 each.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P59971.asp

Gross sales already=$27,270,000
Cost estimate= $15,000,000 for production + 5,000,000 for promotion and manufacturing(<$1 each), etc.

Total profit before album is even released=
$7,270,000

So Best Buy paid $9,09?

Thats alot!

Yeah but if they sell all 3 million at 14 bucks a clip

thats 42 million which means they will make 15 million!

Worst case scenario they sell a million and then sell the other 2 million to other retailers for 7 apiece and break even.

v. ..